I wish this plugin existed.
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- Опубліковано 10 тра 2024
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Hello, I'm Nicholas Di Lorenzo, Studio Owner, Mixing and Mastering engineer at Panorama Studios.
I'm an Italian-Australian born and raised in Melbourne. I've been a creative professional for 10 years managing some pretty awesome projects for artists, labels and producers all around the globe.
What motivates and drives me?
My family,
Good food,
Great coffee.
You can find me on many platforms:
Instagram: / panorama_mastering
Facebook: / panoramamastering
Twitter: / panoramamasters
Kit: kit.co/Panorama_Mastering
I think at this point it is better to ask the producer to change the kick
I love your unique mixing ideas pls more of it :3
The plugin does exist, it is called ChopSuey by Dawesome.
Oh my GOD :D Thanks!
Chop suey is only a broadband apication, not multiband (frequency bands)
I have been using the same exact metod you just did for years!
I'm glad to see someone else beside me is doing it🎉
I like the way you have worked with your kick, you have done good sound design and as a producer I think it sounds great and I will copy to make my kicks sound this way. Generally producers use a sample or use a tool that basically transforms a sine wave from a high pitch to a lower pitch that can be in the same key as the bass.
You always have brilliant nuggets for audio processing and you give it out all for free, what a legend 🙏
My pleasure!
Every time i think i have mastered mixing and mastering i remember you and your channel exists and realise i know nothing 🤣
The wisest one is one who realises he knows nothing 😁
Haha 😂 good message. Blessing to you! 🎉
LoAir Waves introduces sub frequencies to source
doesnt sweetsonics laser come somewhat close to that? excuse me if i misunderstand
Holy shit we have different tastes sonically. The original suction cups you in and out, and the altered is driving above the chest, damn the original felt more moving IMO.
Question: do you get complaints from producers or have you got repeat work from producers/beat makers? Not artists but their producers.
iZotope Neutron 4 has a Transient Shaper module in it, so you can do multi-band transient shaping. Can take your subs and lengthen the attack so it's not right on the start, but also shorten the release to tighten up the tail. Or could tighten attack and sustain to just all around tighten punch. Can similarly shape the mid or high end of a kick however you want. Neutron defaults to a hybrid/dynamic phase mode, but can be toggled on and off of zero-latency modes.
I think Neutron 4's multi-band transient shaper module is the tool you're looking for to simplify all of this. It's not really delay vs. negative delay shifting, but I think transient shaping more than shifts the energy to accomplish what you're aiming for.
Can also use Cableguys ShaperBox 3 to do multiband volume shaping to get pretty surgical, but I think the checkbox it doesn't hit is that it isn't linear phase. However, you can do 6dB band splits so it's minimal phase impact vs. using steeper band split curves.
He's saying that there IS no low end at the moment where the transient of the kick is. So boosting amplitude in that moment wouldn't increase the low end in that moment, hence the moving of the sub forward in time.
A kick is defined by its quick transition from high to low, if you fill out the start (high) with low energy you're masking that sweep which will leave you with less perceived punch. I think when people only sidechain low end of bass against kick it never sounds as punchy as side chaining the full spectrum of the bass.
@@happyshadow I agree that a kick's punch really needs that pitch bend sweep feel to it, so I don't really feel like moving the sub part forward will help a ton. The way they coded kicks on things like the Gameboy soundchip was doing an exponential decreasing envelope sweep down on pitch.
I just think the multi-band transient shaping approach of plugins like Neutron 4 or Cableguys ShaperBox 3 is really useful if you want to tighten up just one part of a kick like the sub end to clean it up a bit to make it tighter.
Plugins like Wavesfactory Trackspacer 2, Mastering the Mix FUSER, Soothe 2, or even the dynamic EQ bands of stuff like Pro Q 3 can be leveraged to do frequency specific ducking of kick vs. bass, vocals vs. instruments, etc. to get a more musical sidechain ducking than just full volume ducking.
that's a cool idea. if I wasn't already working on a bunch of other plugins rn i'd literally make it.
Doesnt sitala do this? Thats what i do pitch it down or up shorten the wavelength?
the infamous dance kick ! lol one of the first things i look at when i think a kick doesnt sound quite right - is what does it look like is it a good sample or was it made by someone who slapped a bunch of layers together this is very prominent in dance music kicks
Also, this seems to be the kind of kick shape you get when you use Disperser or similar all-pass trickery on kicks. Good on transient but the tail gets flabby
Love this plug-in idea! Would be cool to also have a pitch option for each band, unless that causes phase issues Im not accounting for. I often tune my kicks to the track but don’t love how pitching the kick changes the timbre of the transient and top end I originally liked about the sound. On real kick drums (and correct me if I’m wrong) the sound and texture of the beater hitting the head doesn’t change much, if at all, when you tune the drum (with a drum key, in real life). Any tips on how to preserve the true sound of the beater while tuning kicks? Same question for the transients with synthesized kicks.
As im making a lot of hardstyle genre where you make a lot of "hardstyle kicks", i would say split transients and tail part of the kick, dont pitch the transients, just pitch the tail or sub part of the kick
You’re basically replicating kick synthesis, eg using kick2 VSTi where the tonal, transient and sub portions can be synthesised with precision. There are others plenty of other tools. Even backbone from steinberg can recreate sounds from samples. It’s very good with kick samples and allows you to align or adjust the sub components.
You’re trying to keep the artists intention by trying to fix it like this, but you know, sometimes the artist just picks the wrong sounds and they need changing.
So something like oxford drum gates custom decay curve on the frequency dimension, but also the time dimension somehow?
Use LoAir and cut tails?
Don’t understand what the function is of moving the lowend forward? Why does that affect the synergy with the bass? Maybe you haven’t thus issue if you’re already designing your own kicks?
Or chop and time allign and fade ?
i'm majoring in music engineering and i'm taking a plugin development class, maybe i'll try to make a plugin like this
Let me know how you go!
Listening to the full mix at the end, IMO the hi-hat should be louder and the snare should have slightly more tail and be wetter, and the lead is a bit too loud. Overall, it's pretty professional sounding tho
Nice and tight
prefer the before if i am completely honest. yes, i can hear how the RMS power drops off a cliff when it interacts with the bass, but it grooves better. if you have to change the kick that much to make it work then obviously it was never the right kick to begin with, right? it sounds like a completely different kick. not necessarily a tweak of the original
Chop suet vst?
That makes too much sense!!
Steinberg backbone
goes to show what lenghts you can go to... or just exchange the kick sound. Or gate it. Or use a transient shaper. Or use a multiband transient shaper. For me personally, the amount of processing shown seems to be too much time and effort for the result. Faster solutions let me deal with the rest of the mix sooner.
You're right it's a lot of effort as isolated manual processes like this. but imaging this all within one plugin!
Next time you facing this issue try the allpass filter. You'd be surprised! Find a crossover frequency where the energy disappearing and by the topology of this one shift/flip the phase where you need it, making the kick energy sound coherence
Thanks for the tip!
Nahh i'm understand the idea, but i don't have time to messing with this. Better to find another sample.
If it were in a plugin with parameters to tweak! No time fuckery
Warrens Video? Have you a link please.
Warrall... I think this is the video he was referring to. ua-cam.com/video/951MnO8M1Qs/v-deo.html
It’s in the description.
@@panorama_mastering thank you!
@@TK-11 much appreciated!
You can fix this in Saturn 2
WA Production Kickshaper...
And UnitedPlugins DropKick too
OR…. KICK 2 by Sonic Academy 😎👍
It's a cool technique, but in this case. This was like fixing something that didn't need fixing. I'd argue it was better suited before. Regardless... This may be useful for some.
I must say in this situation I would have been tempted to look for or produce a different kick sample that worked better.
On the other hand I was wondering .. once you have delayed the sub frequency part of the kick, as an alternative to using clip gain automation, would using a transient shaper plugin and pulling down the sustain work similarly?
audija vst bro the best
Use chop suey! would save you loads of time and sounds way better
Vengeance’s Metrum might be helpful 🤷♂️
This seems rather unnecessary, at least to me as a producer/ sound designer. A simpler solution would be to re-synthesize a new kick with a tighter pitch envelope. It's an elegant non destructive process compared to the series of destructive processes you've used in the video. Also just remembered while typing this that there's a new ai plugin called visco i believe, that allows you to essentially re-synthesize samples and change various parameters non-destructively. Might be worth checking out
Thankyou, I wanted to say this too
this is some true audio nerd stuff lmao
It’s a very interesting video - but I think I liked the original kick better in context with the whole song. I think it’s an artistic choice and we should respect that and not change it too much, as mix engineers ☺️
Of course! I should have prefaced this as explorative.
And ideally if it were in a GUI the process would be flexiblr with the ability to in real time audition changes and tweak with more granularity.
Cool! I feel the after lost too much energy.
This honestly drifts a bit too close to sound design for me, I'd probably want to clear this with the producer first to make sure I haven't taken anything from the feel that they want kept.
The kick sounds more generic now
Yeah cool geeky effective stuff ! Oooor you can change the kick for one that fits better :D
As a sound designer my self for more then 20 year , don't do that to the kick .
This was explorative.
It’s laborious and not flexible doing this.
But having it laid out within a single interface would make it a unique tool.
I can't explain it here on a comment so i'll try to make video but basically a EDM kick is a sine wave sweep and it has to go full ciclé to sound impactful and smooth at the same time , that fish like shape is done on purpose to reduce low mid frequency levels and not having to eq later.
Volumeshaper
Just use a better kick drum lol
True, but I think it's also a cook trick you can use on not just kicks, you can use it on a lot of other stuff. It's also nice to use on recorded acoustic drums too because you can't just get a better drum head, or a better drummer, or a better microphone to record a better take of the kick lol
Have you gotten some sleep?
Too much words!...
A complete no , sounds worse.... sorry