I really enjoyed this conversation with Jeff. Here's the high-level outline: 0:00 - Introduction 1:28 - Understanding how the human brain works 5:44 - Parts of the brain 11:05 - How much do we understand? 14:20 - Nature of time in the brain 20:22 - Building a theory of intelligence 34:29 - Thousand brains theory of intelligence 40:06 - Ensembles and sensor fusion 44:00 - Concepts and language 45:38 - Memory palace and method of loci 50:20 - Reference frames 57:33 - Open problems 59:00 - Context 1:01:50 - Introspective thinking about the brain 1:04:19 - Deep learning 1:23:09 - Benchmarks 1:27:07 - Brain learning process 1:34:33 - How far are we from solving intelligence 1:38:37 - Possibility of AI winter 1:39:58 - Consciousness and intelligence 1:49:16 - Mortality 1:53:49 - Will understanding intelligence make us happy? 1:55:19 - Existential threats of AI 2:01:45 - Super-human intelligence and our future
On consciousness: @Lex, have you ever considered the notion that the modalities of consciousness (vision, hearing, etc.) correspond to "fields" (as in, field theory), just as there are fields like the Higgs field for representing mass, the electromagnetic field for EM phenomenon, etc.? Just as E = mc2 tells us that information can be exchanged between fields, perhaps the brain is able to transfer information to and from the experiential fields. If true, it's possible that color really does end up looking like a wave, just not in the EM field.
I still believe that cognitive psychology is the software of the brain while neuroscience is the hardware of the brain. Thus, neuroscience will lead to more efficient computing processes while cognitive psychology will lead to how the brain learns and extrapolates (most likely in a Bayesian capacity). Hence, GAI will only truly be achievable with the right cognitive models leading the charge.
My brain still has an almost complete map of grand theft auto san andreas.... wierd how i can still just walk through a virtual city in my head almost 2 decades later but cant remember how to do some college algebra.
I did the same with the originals on PS1 and 3 and SA. My next goal is to form a complete and accurate map in my mind of the mostly procedurally generated universe in space engine with the ability to find the milky way and even Sol and Earth from anywhere in the universe without any assistance from external indicators like labels or maps. Not really, that will probably never happen but it would be cool.
Jeff Hawkins' TED Talk (back in 2006 I believe) was the singular moment that led me into a career in theoretical neuroscience. So cool to see him on here.
I have always enjoyed Jeff Hawkins work at Numenta and I pretty much catch all of your interviews, they are excellent. You did an outstanding job with this interview and I hope you bring Jeff back in the future.
Did you play different 3D games as a child many years ago? Today I still remember all the levels, different locations, hidden items, etc. I also remember many geographical places I visited many years ago. I think there's something really interesting in how brain remembers so much so efficiently related to that kind of what he calls a frame of reference. Really interesting discussion.
That is probably more related to you being a child at that time (and still have lots of "room" to establish new synapses). Probably it will become harder and harder over time as people grow.
It sounds weird for the first half a second when he explains that language and concepts are built on the same circuits you use to map all the input from your senses but then once you think about it for a few seconds it's like "oh, duh" 😂
Really? That's the guy? Once upon a time, in a land far far away.... I used to support those devices for business and consumer marked... Seems so long ago.
And before starting Palm and creating Graffiti, Jeff wrote the best Penpoint note pad that used all of the hyperlink/text features of the platform. The rest is history.
1:43:05 interesting to see Dr. Hawkins perspective on where are you are in space and time. Brings cohesion to the idea of predictive models, because it is necessary to know where you are in order for you to predict a future.
Hawkins == WYSIWYG Jeff Hawkins is one of the most amazing people on this planet. Thank you, Lex for interviewing him. I read his book and his papers and he is on to something here. If you don’t know, Hawkins invented the Palm Pilot, the precursor for all smartphones of today. He is a thinker of beautiful ideas, not a ruthless tycoon (yes please read between the lines as to whom I am referring to there, I am sure you can all fill in the many blanks). The only criticism I have is one of his last comments on “multiverses” - I don’t think they exist.
Jeff is a really special human and his ideas should be studied, cherished and celebrated. Applaud your efforts in making this interview happen, Lex. Thank you man.
The thought of neurons fireing in advance of the input arriving could be onto something. And after the fireing if the input does not arrive, that's a feedback that the neuron doesn't do as well.
The way he talks about your brain working by recalling reference frames really helps explain what Leonard suskind was talking about when he was saying that he felt like it was so hard to envision any dimensions other than 3. It's most likely because our entire collection of reference frames is in 3d space.
This was the only podcast that I listened to completion. Jeff is like the only guy in the AI community that is onto a concrete architecture of a neural net that can solve problems intelligently. There is a small chance that you can engineer an intelligent machine without understanding neuroscience, but I can FOR SURE engineer an intelligent machine by understanding neuroscience! EDIT: Did anybody else cry at the end? Because what Jeff said at the end about human species was so beautiful. What an inspiration.
I thought this was good until the end, when he decided to project his knowledge fetishism onto everyone. Lots of people do care about genes, for aesthetics or other reasons. He kind of came across as a wimpy nerd finding refuge in intelligence.
@@jikkh2x Do you at least agree that our legacy as a species is our knowledge, not our gene? That is literally all he is trying to say, he is not refuting peoples interest in their genetics.
Great interview about mesoscale brain computing - I love it! 1. Each hypercolumn creating models of the world (the thousand brains theory). 2. Short term memory works by converting silent synapses to an active one.
Thanks for bringing Jeff into the light. For all those who are watching Jeff for the first time, you are in for a treat, Jeff is one of the best people to listen to in this field!
Excellent interview. Well done. I think the idea helps explain humour or comedy. Our brain agrees on the meaning of what the comedian is saying, and then the punch line breaks your brain's pre-agreed understanding. So, a broken reference frame can frighten you, or make you laugh, or even cry. Anyway, that is just an amateur's take on all this.
Longitude, latitude. What's the word for the third part of this intersection reference of space? Strange how well my mind still can memorize grand theft auto San Andreas especially apache hybrid in vigilante mode! where is the alien fuel we copied with super collider .let me think,I was thinkin I could use me another six or eight cans of that potted meat, if you got any? Um hum
This interview answers so many of my questions regarding life, in general and I can extrapolate these ideas into personal experiences. The construct of identification of objects also relates to mental health. I recently isolated myself in order to resolve childhood emotional pain. My theory is that memories get buried on top of each other - separating out OLD feelings and memories seems impossible. The following is how I identified emotional pain from formative years. I had a Lucid Dream of an open flesh wound. One day later, I was cutting vegetables for a salad. I always keep my utility knife razor sharp for ease of use. I accidentally cut across the knuckle of my thumb nearly 1/2 inch. Flesh was exposed, it hurt and bled like hell. It was difficult to stop the bleeding and the pain. It took much longer than one would expect for such a seemingly insignificant wound. I was mystified by the lucid dream and the exposure of flesh. This is only one of many unusual circumstances that I have experienced on my journey of self healing. I eventually moved out of the lower level of my property, back into daylight, where I continue my journey. BTW, CONCIOUSNESS evolves through pain and suffering. However, Consciousness seems to be misunderstood. Clearly, there are different levels.
Wow!! This talk was so enlightening! I got captured almost immediately about his ideas and the insights. As a programmer and a curious being, some parts of the video, I will have to watch again to better understand the implications, the model and process he describes. Lex you literally were asking same questions I would ask him. I have also appreciated how you were driving the conversation. I hope to find more material on this subject. Thank you both
I had to pause now at 18:20 and reflect, because of the beauty and the complexity of the statements that were made. Now I will return much later to the video in order to take it all in :))
There were a lot of great ideas in this podcast! Will definitely check out his papers. I personally find the idea of modelling the temporal properties of the brain into neural networks remarkable and positively challenging.
Ivan R they won’t, but we can try. I thought that timing of firing is crucial just from the top of my head, may be because that’s so obvious when you even observe how things happen for yourself. But I don’t think timing as a technique will be any different than just assigning he weights. I’ve heard of bigger (higher level) constructs called cognitoms. Those are bigger parts of the cortex working together as a system. One researcher told things like mood, thoughts arise from cognitoms working together. There’s something magical in how smaller parts tend to work together as one bigger unit and I don’t think we understand this generally enough. Like a flock of birds flying together. One said there’s a similar mechanism in play when a group of people heather in the smoking room, so, I believe, it’s working for ourselves even right now and we are up to the challenge of finding out how it really works.
He like to understand how the brain actually works, and is not drawn to those philosophical excursions of people who have otherwise no clue how to describe how human intelligence works.
Mr Hawkins you are doing a great thing I have learnt so much from you , thanks a lot I am also working on similar subject but implementing for very different purpose.
Neurons communicate with an electrochemical language, consciousness is a conversation. Each neuron telling other neurons what is being told to it, and the world simulated in our brain is the gestalt, the chorus, with each conscious sensation being defined by its relationships to other sensations. Mind blowing.
Really good podcast. Empirical data is important but a bit of a boat anchor to innovation. Sometimes it's faster to put a stake in a field and let others move slower toward the stake by producing empirical data. This combination not only drives evolution but it swarms new ideas and pathways over different minds. State is how we view time managed by a human brain. Memory is a reset of state, multiple states, connected or cascade states etc. with probabilistic relevance the determing factor of memory variance. Really interesting dude.
I started this video thinking “im probably not going to understand this very well” BUT I was wrong thanks to the way the guest was able to break things down. 👍👍
Stunning interview. Amazing ideas. My comments. 1. Frame of reference. It seems straight forward to understand the brain modeling the physical world using a frame of reference for our 3D, plus time, experience. It seems less clear to me how a frame of reference model works for abstract concepts. 2. Time. If time is a necessary component to how the brain “thinks”, then what happens if you create an artificial mind and change the length of time used during each step? Does this create a qualitatively different mind, i.e. one that “thinks” differently? 3. If consciousness (at least the first part of it that Jeff discusses) is mainly the process of remembering, then who is the “someone” remembering? By analogy, if consciousness is like a movie that we are watching, who is watching? My own amateur wild guess is that consciousness occurs as a quantum physics process, involving randomness, and possibly (to get way out there) some interaction with information not available to us in our macroscopic work, for example, information in curled up very tiny additional dimensions or perhaps (yikes) alternate universes. But these are just speculations. Thank you. William L. Ramseyer
I always thought of emotions as coordinates within our brain maps. One could see how emotions have many more permutations and can be tied to specific memories. Ptsd is like a heavily entangled memory to a strong emotional response. Just food for thought.
to answer Jeff's question on how the brain handles the same data but in different orientation - It's probably similar to transposition in music. where you can play the same scale on a different key. The majority of the information is in the scale and not the starting key.
Dang this one makes so much sense to me now that I think about it. I do voting logic in some of my work when trying to decide what a person will do with data, and I can see how a blind person would almost seem to have supernatural powers when it comes to sound because they have trained more "votes" to weigh in on a map that is sound based vs visual and can therefor create a better map than we can if we close our eyes. His description of waking up to go pee but keeping his eyes closed really helped me understand that he is creating a map, and only using the visual cues hinders your map, since the only "votes" that are able to chime in are visual. The same thing works when you stick your hand in a box and feel an object. Your brain is working out a map it can recall from touch only (no visual votes allowed), and the more your fingers feel the object the more of the map it creates, all the while having many different maps being recalled from memory that resemble what you are feeling "voting" on what the object is, but if you had also previously listened to the sound of what the object makes because you are blind, you would have more "votes" in your mind of what the object actually is, much like if you could see what you are touching and your sight could also "vote" on what it is. I would love to hear more about how those maps are stored in memory, and when you are touching something, how much of it would be essentially ram vs rom memory.
Jeff is so smart he knows what question Lex is asking before he articulates it. I just wish he would allow Lex to finish, because I often don't know what the question was going to be
The part towards the end about death was a bit surprising, regards to how Lex was handling it. I think it's somewhat normal to not fear death and think of it as not much of a concern. I certainly don't fear death, just injury. I don't think that's super "enlightened", just reasonably rational to low standard.
100 years ago we basically rode horses and used steam engines. now theres cars, computers, combustion engines, solar cells, space telescopes, reusable rockets, virtual reality, fridges, microwave ovens, lamps, internet, nuclear fission, smart phones, flushable toilets, skyscrapers, jet engines, tvs, radio, and the list goes on and on. imagine what we have in the next 100 years after the first concious AI
I mentioned Ingo Swan in one of your videos yesterday and goodness gracious we're talking about dimensional information trying to take it to the physical. Consciousness reality what a adventure I would have loved to see you guys interview him. But you can see his last talks on UA-cam befor he died. It would be in interesting discussions to incorporate his part of the information into A I. Earl
What an incredible conversation, one of my favourites. Totslly agree the C word is overrated. Might have to take Jeff up on understanding the math behind General Relativity ! When Jeff went into detail there, it really opened up some synapses in brain that haven't been opened before...
Been listening to Jeff before he started Numenta. Interesting to see how his thought process on the subject evolve. Like watching a very long, slow paced football game
After weeks of amateur searching of /r/singularity - artificial - etc... I feel that this video has everything that I've been searching for. We are incredibly close. I think that current ML techniques will prove themselves superior in some capabilities. However, a new technique based off what JH discussed here, will need to be implemented for AGI to truly emerge.
I would really like to see a debate between Jeff Hawkins and Nick Bostrom about existential threat of AI. Hawkins says (approx 1:58:25) that if you want to avoid such threats of AI, just don't put objective to reproduce, objective to not be turned off, etc. He even says, "Why does it have to care about these things ?" Well, what about Instrumental Convergence ? As soon as you give an objective for AI to achieve, it is in its interest not to be turned off, acquire as much resources as it can, etc., to achieve that goal. I am convinced that any rational agent would behave like that, unless we somehow solve value alignment problem. I wish Lex would have countered with that.
I really enjoyed this conversation with Jeff. Here's the high-level outline:
0:00 - Introduction
1:28 - Understanding how the human brain works
5:44 - Parts of the brain
11:05 - How much do we understand?
14:20 - Nature of time in the brain
20:22 - Building a theory of intelligence
34:29 - Thousand brains theory of intelligence
40:06 - Ensembles and sensor fusion
44:00 - Concepts and language
45:38 - Memory palace and method of loci
50:20 - Reference frames
57:33 - Open problems
59:00 - Context
1:01:50 - Introspective thinking about the brain
1:04:19 - Deep learning
1:23:09 - Benchmarks
1:27:07 - Brain learning process
1:34:33 - How far are we from solving intelligence
1:38:37 - Possibility of AI winter
1:39:58 - Consciousness and intelligence
1:49:16 - Mortality
1:53:49 - Will understanding intelligence make us happy?
1:55:19 - Existential threats of AI
2:01:45 - Super-human intelligence and our future
I also enjoy your podcast series, you look smarter in podcast outing
On consciousness: @Lex, have you ever considered the notion that the modalities of consciousness (vision, hearing, etc.) correspond to "fields" (as in, field theory), just as there are fields like the Higgs field for representing mass, the electromagnetic field for EM phenomenon, etc.? Just as E = mc2 tells us that information can be exchanged between fields, perhaps the brain is able to transfer information to and from the experiential fields. If true, it's possible that color really does end up looking like a wave, just not in the EM field.
I still believe that cognitive psychology is the software of the brain while neuroscience is the hardware of the brain. Thus, neuroscience will lead to more efficient computing processes while cognitive psychology will lead to how the brain learns and extrapolates (most likely in a Bayesian capacity). Hence, GAI will only truly be achievable with the right cognitive models leading the charge.
I know you have a podcast plan but let the guy talk
How much did the work of Wai H. Tsang contribute to these ideas?
Lex Fridman has been my greatest find from JRE!
Mine too
Lex was on JRE? Nice
Lex and ofcourse Joey Coco Diaz
Mine too!
This is because Lex does MMA. Which is the only Joe rogan stamp of approval lol. Well and doing comedy
One of the best episodes right here
My brain still has an almost complete map of grand theft auto san andreas.... wierd how i can still just walk through a virtual city in my head almost 2 decades later but cant remember how to do some college algebra.
Lolol. Time spent involved/depth of involvment.
What type of algebra?
@@RalphDratman basic college. I plan on going back soon and treating it a lot more seriously though
gta sa: i played it for 8 years straight
I did the same with the originals on PS1 and 3 and SA. My next goal is to form a complete and accurate map in my mind of the mostly procedurally generated universe in space engine with the ability to find the milky way and even Sol and Earth from anywhere in the universe without any assistance from external indicators like labels or maps. Not really, that will probably never happen but it would be cool.
I was just thinking today about how thinking feels like holding a council. I'm always so excited when your videos hit my suggested feed!
How about you subscribe and turn on notifications
Allow me to collect my jaw from the floor...
Jeff Hawkins' TED Talk (back in 2006 I believe) was the singular moment that led me into a career in theoretical neuroscience. So cool to see him on here.
That talk has aged like a fine wine
My mind is literally blown right now! This is how my brain, how all of our brain works! Amazing! Thank you Lex for this awesome interview!!!
потрясающий разговор, у гостя интересные и свежие взгляды на очень много вещей, спасибо, Лекс!
Same to you buddy!
I have always enjoyed Jeff Hawkins work at Numenta and I pretty much catch all of your interviews, they are excellent.
You did an outstanding job with this interview and I hope you bring Jeff back in the future.
I love these podcasts so much!
Same
15 min into the video and already finding it so enlightening.
Did you play different 3D games as a child many years ago? Today I still remember all the levels, different locations, hidden items, etc. I also remember many geographical places I visited many years ago.
I think there's something really interesting in how brain remembers so much so efficiently related to that kind of what he calls a frame of reference. Really interesting discussion.
Makes me wonder how living between VR and the real world is going to mess with our heads.
That is probably more related to you being a child at that time (and still have lots of "room" to establish new synapses). Probably it will become harder and harder over time as people grow.
It sounds weird for the first half a second when he explains that language and concepts are built on the same circuits you use to map all the input from your senses but then once you think about it for a few seconds it's like "oh, duh" 😂
I love listening to Jeff Hawkins. I remember watching him on MIT over 10 years ago about Numenta. 🙏
Thanks a lot Lex, absolutely amazing video, 2 hours of pure science and great ideas.
Nobody in the comments mentioned that this is the man who invented Palm devices. Only true 90s/2000s folks know what I'm talking about!!
@Leonardo Laprickpossibl I reported YOU because I am going to be born in 2020...which is why I have such great hindsight. Too bad for you.
Really? That's the guy? Once upon a time, in a land far far away.... I used to support those devices for business and consumer marked... Seems so long ago.
And before starting Palm and creating Graffiti, Jeff wrote the best Penpoint note pad that used all of the hyperlink/text features of the platform. The rest is history.
Rob Franzo remember the Apple Newton?
And he also invented the first smart phone: Treo
Jeff Hawkins is our greatest hope for understanding consciousness
Thank you, I really enjoyed this one. Because of Jeff book I started be interested in all topics around neural networks, AI, brain structure.
1:43:05 interesting to see Dr. Hawkins perspective on where are you are in space and time. Brings cohesion to the idea of predictive models, because it is necessary to know where you are in order for you to predict a future.
Brilliant podcast as usual, listening to it without visuals sounds like a lecture from Kevin Costner. Great content Lex
Hawkins == WYSIWYG
Jeff Hawkins is one of the most amazing people on this planet. Thank you, Lex for interviewing him. I read his book and his papers and he is on to something here. If you don’t know, Hawkins invented the Palm Pilot, the precursor for all smartphones of today. He is a thinker of beautiful ideas, not a ruthless tycoon (yes please read between the lines as to whom I am referring to there, I am sure you can all fill in the many blanks). The only criticism I have is one of his last comments on “multiverses” - I don’t think they exist.
this is my favourite lex podcast to date. wow jeff hawkins.
Jeff is a really special human and his ideas should be studied, cherished and celebrated.
Applaud your efforts in making this interview happen, Lex. Thank you man.
One of the greatest interviews on this channel!
What a great interview. Thoroughly enjoyed that.
This is, far and away, the best one. Brain learning process @1:27:07 sounded a lot like a spec to me. Next stop: Jeff's papers.
The thought of neurons fireing in advance of the input arriving could be onto something.
And after the fireing if the input does not arrive, that's a feedback that the neuron doesn't do as well.
@@jonatan01i this has been experimentally proven to occur in the grid and place cells.
@@158-i6z can you show me a study on this one, please?
Or at least point me to the right direction?
Jeff's is Hands down the best Guy out there working on this problem ..
I really enjoy listening to your podcasts.
The way he talks about your brain working by recalling reference frames really helps explain what Leonard suskind was talking about when he was saying that he felt like it was so hard to envision any dimensions other than 3. It's most likely because our entire collection of reference frames is in 3d space.
This was the only podcast that I listened to completion. Jeff is like the only guy in the AI community that is onto a concrete architecture of a neural net that can solve problems intelligently. There is a small chance that you can engineer an intelligent machine without understanding neuroscience, but I can FOR SURE engineer an intelligent machine by understanding neuroscience!
EDIT: Did anybody else cry at the end? Because what Jeff said at the end about human species was so beautiful. What an inspiration.
I thought this was good until the end, when he decided to project his knowledge fetishism onto everyone. Lots of people do care about genes, for aesthetics or other reasons. He kind of came across as a wimpy nerd finding refuge in intelligence.
@@jikkh2x Do you at least agree that our legacy as a species is our knowledge, not our gene? That is literally all he is trying to say, he is not refuting peoples interest in their genetics.
It feels so great to listen to Jeff Hawkins after reading his book! This conversation makes the book come to life to me. Thanks Lex!
"You're just deeply enlightened or are completely delusional." 1:52:00
Superb!
Great interview about mesoscale brain computing - I love it! 1. Each hypercolumn creating models of the world (the thousand brains theory). 2. Short term memory works by converting silent synapses to an active one.
Lex, I love the opening of your show with pitch back background in your mobster black suite. Love the show....
Great Work Lex!
Thanks for bringing Jeff into the light. For all those who are watching Jeff for the first time, you are in for a treat, Jeff is one of the best people to listen to in this field!
Excellent interview. Well done. I think the idea helps explain humour or comedy. Our brain agrees on the meaning of what the comedian is saying, and then the punch line breaks your brain's pre-agreed understanding. So, a broken reference frame can frighten you, or make you laugh, or even cry. Anyway, that is just an amateur's take on all this.
Longitude, latitude. What's the word for the third part of this intersection reference of space? Strange how well my mind still can memorize grand theft auto San Andreas especially apache hybrid in vigilante mode! where is the alien fuel we copied with super collider .let me think,I was thinkin I could use me another six or eight cans of that potted meat, if you got any? Um hum
Good thought, I think you're onto something there
A joke doesn't just break a prediction/pattern, it unexpectedly throws you over to a new and wildly different (yet valid) one.
@@iestynne great point.
Sound writing music is like making models of sound. That actually makes a lot of sense to me.
This interview answers so many of my questions regarding life, in general and I can extrapolate these ideas into personal experiences. The construct of identification of objects also relates to mental health. I recently isolated myself in order to resolve childhood emotional pain.
My theory is that memories get buried on top of each other - separating out OLD feelings and memories seems impossible. The following is how I identified emotional pain from formative years. I had a Lucid Dream of an open flesh wound. One day later, I was cutting vegetables for a salad. I always keep my utility knife razor sharp for ease of use. I accidentally cut across the knuckle of my thumb nearly 1/2 inch. Flesh was exposed, it hurt and bled like hell. It was difficult to stop the bleeding and the pain. It took much longer than one would expect for such a seemingly insignificant wound. I was mystified by the lucid dream and the exposure of flesh. This is only one of many unusual circumstances that I have experienced on my journey of self healing. I eventually moved out of the lower level of my property, back into daylight, where I continue my journey.
BTW, CONCIOUSNESS evolves through pain and suffering. However, Consciousness seems to be misunderstood. Clearly, there are different levels.
This is probably the best conversation I have ever listen to, just amazing
My first comment ever on any podcast ! Love Lex because he gets the depth and beauty of the tango scene in Scent of a Woman .
Wow!! This talk was so enlightening! I got captured almost immediately about his ideas and the insights. As a programmer and a curious being, some parts of the video, I will have to watch again to better understand the implications, the model and process he describes. Lex you literally were asking same questions I would ask him. I have also appreciated how you were driving the conversation.
I hope to find more material on this subject.
Thank you both
I had to pause now at 18:20 and reflect, because of the beauty and the complexity of the statements that were made. Now I will return much later to the video in order to take it all in :))
There were a lot of great ideas in this podcast! Will definitely check out his papers. I personally find the idea of modelling the temporal properties of the brain into neural networks remarkable and positively challenging.
Found it very interesting for myself. Looking forward they build proper neural network.
Ivan R they won’t, but we can try. I thought that timing of firing is crucial just from the top of my head, may be because that’s so obvious when you even observe how things happen for yourself. But I don’t think timing as a technique will be any different than just assigning he weights. I’ve heard of bigger (higher level) constructs called cognitoms. Those are bigger parts of the cortex working together as a system. One researcher told things like mood, thoughts arise from cognitoms working together. There’s something magical in how smaller parts tend to work together as one bigger unit and I don’t think we understand this generally enough. Like a flock of birds flying together. One said there’s a similar mechanism in play when a group of people heather in the smoking room, so, I believe, it’s working for ourselves even right now and we are up to the challenge of finding out how it really works.
Jeff Hawkins ruthlessly objective and I admire it.
He like to understand how the brain actually works, and is not drawn to those philosophical excursions of people who have otherwise no clue how to describe how human intelligence works.
Mr Hawkins you are doing a great thing I have learnt so much from you , thanks a lot I am also working on similar subject but implementing for very different purpose.
LEX completed a sweet tap dance. Most of you are unaware of the jousting that occurred right before your eyes. Very tactful Lex, very tactful.
My favourite guest/podcast so far
Awesome you had Jeff on! Him and his group definitely deserve more attention!
This guy's a genius ... give him your money!
you guys inspire so much you have no idea
Lex your understanding of philosophy and biology and neuroscience facilitated a great convo... as ALWAYS
Please do an interview with his former partner Dileep George and Scott Phoenix - both currently work at Vicarious
Neurons communicate with an electrochemical language, consciousness is a conversation.
Each neuron telling other neurons what is being told to it, and the world simulated in our brain is the gestalt, the chorus, with each conscious sensation being defined by its relationships to other sensations.
Mind blowing.
Truly fascinating! I will definitely try to follow his work in the future.
Really good podcast.
Empirical data is important but a bit of a boat anchor to innovation. Sometimes it's faster to put a stake in a field and let others move slower toward the stake by producing empirical data. This combination not only drives evolution but it swarms new ideas and pathways over different minds.
State is how we view time managed by a human brain. Memory is a reset of state, multiple states, connected or cascade states etc. with probabilistic relevance the determing factor of memory variance.
Really interesting dude.
This is the best one I’ve seen bar far
I started this video thinking “im probably not going to understand this very well” BUT I was wrong thanks to the way the guest was able to break things down. 👍👍
Stunning interview. Amazing ideas. My comments.
1. Frame of reference. It seems straight forward to understand the brain modeling the physical world using a frame of reference for our 3D, plus time, experience. It seems less clear to me how a frame of reference model works for abstract concepts.
2. Time. If time is a necessary component to how the brain “thinks”, then what happens if you create an artificial mind and change the length of time used during each step? Does this create a qualitatively different mind, i.e. one that “thinks” differently?
3. If consciousness (at least the first part of it that Jeff discusses) is mainly the process of remembering, then who is the “someone” remembering? By analogy, if consciousness is like a movie that we are watching, who is watching? My own amateur wild guess is that consciousness occurs as a quantum physics process, involving randomness, and possibly (to get way out there) some interaction with information not available to us in our macroscopic work, for example, information in curled up very tiny additional dimensions or perhaps (yikes) alternate universes. But these are just speculations.
Thank you. William L. Ramseyer
Amazing podcast. Jeff is a very interesting person. I'd like to see him at jre or mindscape too.
I always thought of emotions as coordinates within our brain maps. One could see how emotions have many more permutations and can be tied to specific memories. Ptsd is like a heavily entangled memory to a strong emotional response. Just food for thought.
very very great interview, it makes me want to look more about this guy
Many thanks Jeff and Lex! This is one of the most interesting/stimulating podcasts I have heard in last years. Regards, Marco
to answer Jeff's question on how the brain handles the same data but in different orientation - It's probably similar to transposition in music. where you can play the same scale on a different key. The majority of the information is in the scale and not the starting key.
Dang this one makes so much sense to me now that I think about it. I do voting logic in some of my work when trying to decide what a person will do with data, and I can see how a blind person would almost seem to have supernatural powers when it comes to sound because they have trained more "votes" to weigh in on a map that is sound based vs visual and can therefor create a better map than we can if we close our eyes.
His description of waking up to go pee but keeping his eyes closed really helped me understand that he is creating a map, and only using the visual cues hinders your map, since the only "votes" that are able to chime in are visual.
The same thing works when you stick your hand in a box and feel an object. Your brain is working out a map it can recall from touch only (no visual votes allowed), and the more your fingers feel the object the more of the map it creates, all the while having many different maps being recalled from memory that resemble what you are feeling "voting" on what the object is, but if you had also previously listened to the sound of what the object makes because you are blind, you would have more "votes" in your mind of what the object actually is, much like if you could see what you are touching and your sight could also "vote" on what it is.
I would love to hear more about how those maps are stored in memory, and when you are touching something, how much of it would be essentially ram vs rom memory.
The dude has spoken, quite an interesting set of ideas
Thank you Lex. One of the best interviews.
"you need the winter to refresh the palette" excellent Lex.
What a fun conversation this was! I'm hoping that I'll see Ben Goertzel on this channel sometime.
Jeff is so smart he knows what question Lex is asking before he articulates it. I just wish he would allow Lex to finish, because I often don't know what the question was going to be
The part towards the end about death was a bit surprising, regards to how Lex was handling it. I think it's somewhat normal to not fear death and think of it as not much of a concern. I certainly don't fear death, just injury. I don't think that's super "enlightened", just reasonably rational to low standard.
Fantastic I really enjoy this series and the interviewer and the fascinating minds he has on his program
One of the most interesting theories in a long time
best interview i've seen on your channel!
Read Hawkin's first book "On Intelligence" and am excited for his new book! I also loved my Palm Pilot! Thanks Jeff!
Winter is coming... Jeff Hawkins
The heck with binging on Stranger Things. I’m hooked on this podcast!
Jeff is very inspiring. Can you maybe talk to him once again? Maybe other topics such as his entrepreneurship?
I will definitely watch this a second time, so helpful. Great questions Lex. Thank you
Working my way through from #1!
Fantastic introduction. Loved the interview
I really enjoyed Jeff's point of view on life and intelligence. It was a profound aha moment for me. Thanks for sharing this interview!
This guy's great! (Jeff) and Lex you're great too.
100 years ago we basically rode horses and used steam engines. now theres cars, computers, combustion engines, solar cells, space telescopes, reusable rockets, virtual reality, fridges, microwave ovens, lamps, internet, nuclear fission, smart phones, flushable toilets, skyscrapers, jet engines, tvs, radio, and the list goes on and on. imagine what we have in the next 100 years after the first concious AI
Jeff is brilliant.
Thank you for these wonderfully informative videos, Lex!!
I mentioned Ingo Swan in one of your videos yesterday and goodness gracious we're talking about dimensional information trying to take it to the physical. Consciousness reality what a adventure
I would have loved to see you guys interview him.
But you can see his last talks on UA-cam befor he died.
It would be in interesting discussions to incorporate his part of the information into A I.
Earl
I appreciate Mr. Hawkins views and this interview. Would love to ask a few questions myself!
What an incredible conversation, one of my favourites. Totslly agree the C word is overrated. Might have to take Jeff up on understanding the math behind General Relativity !
When Jeff went into detail there, it really opened up some synapses in brain that haven't been opened before...
Been listening to Jeff before he started Numenta. Interesting to see how his thought process on the subject evolve. Like watching a very long, slow paced football game
ive been following jeff for the last 5 yrs or so, maybe more, very interested in his theory since i heard of it, this is awesome to me, thanks !!
Meet the man most likely to create an AGI - Jeff Hawkins - brilliant interview Lex.
enlightening ! Thanks for the great discussion
@lex, I really appreciate all of these conversations you are sharing!
i like his method of approaching 'thinking'
After weeks of amateur searching of /r/singularity - artificial - etc... I feel that this video has everything that I've been searching for. We are incredibly close. I think that current ML techniques will prove themselves superior in some capabilities. However, a new technique based off what JH discussed here, will need to be implemented for AGI to truly emerge.
Excellent Channel! Subscribed. Was looking for something like this but without the TED talk glitz.
I would really like to see a debate between Jeff Hawkins and Nick Bostrom about existential threat of AI. Hawkins says (approx 1:58:25) that if you want to avoid such threats of AI, just don't put objective to reproduce, objective to not be turned off, etc. He even says, "Why does it have to care about these things ?" Well, what about Instrumental Convergence ? As soon as you give an objective for AI to achieve, it is in its interest not to be turned off, acquire as much resources as it can, etc., to achieve that goal. I am convinced that any rational agent would behave like that, unless we somehow solve value alignment problem. I wish Lex would have countered with that.
Man, i had to take a couple breaks just to sort and uderstand this knowledge. People, when we became so smart? xD