Here's the absolute truth: these artists put out their art, which we love. So love it. It doesn't mean we know ANYTHING about these artists, how they live their lives in private; they might be mean and trip up old people, slap little kids and cheat on their taxes. Or they could be saints. The truth is there's a whole industry out there trying to make money off of convincing us that they know the real truth about these people. I say don't bother; resign yourself to enjoying the fruit of their labors and realize they struggle with their burdens just like we do with ours. We should just focus on our own struggles to live better lives & be sympathetic to the struggles of others or at least that's how I see it.
None of what she says is 100% untrue (well, I've not smelled his breath) but it misses the point - if you think it's easy what he does, have a go! - and as the commentary says, that's what folk music does. Bob always adds something special and raises what he does above whatever inspired him - except possibly biblical quotes, but they really are quotes - you can't plagiarise something culturally so embedded, you just reference it as a sort of shorthand. Truth is, life's richer for having both Joni and Bob.
I think if he was a plagiarist someone would have figured out by now what the hell "All along the watch tower" was about, at least by reference to what it was supposedly "plagiarised from". (And yes there's biblical imagery in it but that's not what plagiarism means).
Artists are passionate people- who knows where the animosity stems from but she had a right to her opinion. I’ve not heard her say anything bad about other people- just him. I know personally as I get older I just say my truth more and more and let the chips fall where they may. With that being said, however, I hold a lot fewer grudges- time has softened my harsh opinions (and my memory of why I felt so strongly)and I find myself not wanting to carry others past trespasses. I hope she was at peace when she died. I think they both were amazingly talented!
Joni and Quincy Jones (He proclaimed The Beatles stink and Paul is the worlds worst bass player) are probably two of the most clueless people on the planet!!
Poor Joni; her fame was never enough and her bitter complaints are a large part of her interviews for many years. She had so much yet cannot seem to see it. She was great. Dylan was also great. Move on.
"Plagarism"??? (at 1.57). Really? Who wrote/narrated this? The Philistines? 🙄And Mitchell has always been delirious, anyway. She said in an interview that Dylan's Masters Of War (1962) was about "spitting on the graves of soldiers who died in the Vietnam war", except that the song was written before the escalation of the Vietnam war and it's obviously about what is now commonly called the "military industrial complex" (as the title clearly suggests), not common, young soldiers who were conscripted in the US army... Once she played her new album to Dylan and Dylan fell asleep; she never forgave him for that, lol! And the many "compliments" about Mitchell are pure hyperbole...
This is bullshit. They are the best of friends. They are painting buddies. They call each other all the time. She told my friend Gabe Gordon that when he auditioned to play with her on her next album (because he's very hip to open tunings). She could say what she did because she knew he would not consider it an attack, but just interview chat. They hate interviews.
Usually when there’s a dispute like this amongst professionals it’s not the music they are fighting about. Perhaps Bob did something she didn,t like dumping Joan Baez , or something else. It’s a personal thing rather than a work thing. Once you have a grudge against someone, you take it out any way you can. It’s beyond repair. Love them both.
Bob might have borrowed a lot of bits, but he makes such magic with them that all is forgiven. He's worth more than any one Beatle, IMHO, if such things could ever be measured.
I thought about this for a while what Joni said about Bob. I think she's amazing and all, but wasn't she in a serious relationship with David Crosby back in the day? Wonder what she thought about his breath, guitar playing?
According to Crosby...she sang the song The Midway right to Crosby in the room as she wrote it..then sang it a second time..thus ending their relationship right there. Crosby said he was devastated by what she did. She;s no angel either.
I love Joni but she does come across as bitter. She has her Sun conjunct Mercury in Scorpio which can be a sharp toungue with invective. She also has her Moon conjunct her MC, the career point, in Pisces; a snappy disposition for sure. Her Venus, in Virgo, is opposite the Moon, in Pisces, and her Saturn is 90° to both. A T Square and this aspect is a very difficult aspect. And Saturn there and in Gemini would make her curmudgeonly in her pronouncements. Dylan has a Grand Cross in those 3 signs plus his Ascendant in Sagittarius. These people are gifted with _long travel suspension_ which allows them to override obstacles here. Both are great but Dylan transcends all rock n rollers in any of their guises.
Bitter she never made it to the ranks she felt she deserved, not invited to Woodstock - slept with literally all of Laurel canyon and beyond, she’s overrated in my opinion , boring sad blah songs, her high voice hurt my ears
A legend in her own mind, shame on her if she did say, if true I'm still a fan of her music but not a fan of her anymore, come to think of it she did bag David Crosby, rejection can bring out the real inner self ✌️❤️🙏
In this video, Joni doesn't say anything bad about Dylan. I love the love she has for Dylan maybe someone should make a video of her smiling which will prove her love for Dylan🤗🥰.
Bob is not only the greatest modern songwriter and story teller but he revolutionized the art form at great personal risk. He influenced Hendrix, the Beatles and Clapton and many others and we would not have had the sixties like we did without Dylan. Sure there may have been synthesis in some of his work but that is true for all of us. He even borrowed from the Bible so how is that a sin. Dylan's work is astounding.
I dunno about the Bible part. Not religious but the rest of your comment is right on the money. Hendrix was nuts about him. “ outside in the distance a wild cat did growl 2 riders were approaching & the wind begins to howl” It’s as if he wrote it for Hendrix
I rate dylan without rating Mitchell much but i find it really irritating when people assume that the criticisms of a less successful person of a more successful person can only be jealousy...If that was the case then no one would ever be able to criticise someone more famous than them even if they genuinely felt their art was sub par.
for most of her life, Joni said very nice things about Dylan and his music. It's only in the last few years that she began to slander him. I have no idea what her problem is.
Ask yourself "Who, from her past; does Joni actually get along-with/like/speak kindly of today"? Yea, NOBODY. Think about it. Must be everyone else. It can't be Joni, she is 'great'; must be everyone else.
@@noobstardust5970 Read again, or read better. I wrote: "speak kindly of today". She trashes/trashed everyone of those you mentioned time-and-time-again. Don't make me post quotes: you look them up. She is a bitter one and always has been from all accounts (period).
Many people don't get Bob, they see him perform live and are not impressed. They are put to sleep by his lyrics and irritated by his voice. I know, i know.
Apparently a reporter once said to her in the earlier days... " you've written some pretty good songs....."how do you compare yourself to Dylan?". There was a short pause, then she answered..."I can sing". Love her, man, she's a genius and a truly incredible musician. Dylan is neither, but is a great songwriter. Possibly one of the best.
bob was an incredible musician at one point as well, he may not have the guitar chops anymore but if you listen to his fingerpicking techniques and unique voicing of words in his early stuff you'll see there's nothing short of genius. Check out Moonshiner on the album the bootleg series. Listen to the harmonica and the timing of the notes, there is pure soul and musicianship in that recording. Joni was great but bob could lead a band as a musician much greater than Joni ever did.
Dylan WAS a genius and at times still shows genius. What do you mean by "possibly one of the best" as opposed to BEST of all time,. which he IS. Who are you ranking HIGHER..this should be a FUN answer. Even The Beatles knew DYlan was the real deal. Better songwriter than all 4 of them in 1965
Sometimes it’s a personal grudge and not a professional one. Maybe Bob tried to get in her pants when they were practicing at her place in the villege😂
How would we know she is talking the truth, to say Dylan copies all his lyrics is a big statement, some one said to someone who overheard somebody else, ✌️❤️🙏
The truth is that all folk music can be classed as plagiarism and it’s fair to ask could Joni’s career have been possible without Bob’s trail blazing. I am a huge fan of both Bob and Joni.
Jealous Joni eh ! Dylan never dissed her ! She's such a SOURPUSS....don't be taken in. She didn't contact her daughter for over 30 odd years after she'd had her adopted.... The woman isn't the great legend you might think she is....she is merely a human with a great many faults. However her songs are good x
One thing Joni would NOT be...envious of anyone's adulation, that statment is just stupid. Dylan's poetic instinct was almost beyond comprehension...but Joni was a better lyricist... "You're a coward against the altitudes A coward against tbe flesh , Coward..caught between yes and no Restless this time on the line for yes yes yes
So she is a smoker and she complains about Dylan's breath? Wonder who she blames for her current poor health. After her pitiful performance at the Grammys tonight, I am confident that Dylan will say nice things about her or nothing at all.
This is the most rediculace thing I've ever heard if it is true, shame on Joni, Dylan is one of the great song writers of all time, I've only ever heard her say good things about him, she is a legend in her own mind🚶🚶🚶🏃✌️🙏
They are both cranky narcissists. Can’t blame em as they were both gifted and worshipped by flatterers and imitators for decades. Pioneers whose past lives have become the stuff of legend and folklore. Unfortunately they couldn’t possibly have any perspective about their own work or contributions because the ego tends to bury the truth. They stood on the shoulders of artists that came before them. This seems to be lost on Joni. She sees herself as a Michelangelo or Shakespeare. Pure originality. It’s nauseating.
Some people are tending to sound like Sat Navs. I don’t know if this voice is real or a AI but no one really uses this sort of intonation and emphasis, do they.
Dylan doesn't care about such low-class acting people and the whole problem seems to be that Joni didn't get the attention(or Bob's reaction) which she needed so badly
Joni didn't give a shit about not getting enough attention or adulation.. it was the envy and resentment that came at her from all around that she hated. And I daresay that she would more likely have been the one to refuse any amorous advsnces
Hard rain, Lord Randll, an old English folk song. He did well. Anyone could have done it, i’m sure, …but he did. I’m English, i was a kid when that was a big hit, but no school music teacher pointed that out to me. But i can’t stand these everyone on (folksy) stage efforts where they dress up as All American stereotypes and pretend all huggermugger to like each other(that “Boss” guy, Bob’s son, totally naused me out) thankfully i live in England.
This is one of those AI generated videos. Listen closley to the voice, its not real. The only thing fake is this video. I dont trust anything said here.
Here's the absolute truth: these artists put out their art, which we love. So love it. It doesn't mean we know ANYTHING about these artists, how they live their lives in private; they might be mean and trip up old people, slap little kids and cheat on their taxes. Or they could be saints. The truth is there's a whole industry out there trying to make money off of convincing us that they know the real truth about these people. I say don't bother; resign yourself to enjoying the fruit of their labors and realize they struggle with their burdens just like we do with ours. We should just focus on our own struggles to live better lives & be sympathetic to the struggles of others or at least that's how I see it.
Well said
Beautifully put
They're both absolutely great. Why worry about a few idle words spoken on one occasion?
None of what she says is 100% untrue (well, I've not smelled his breath) but it misses the point - if you think it's easy what he does, have a go! - and as the commentary says, that's what folk music does. Bob always adds something special and raises what he does above whatever inspired him - except possibly biblical quotes, but they really are quotes - you can't plagiarise something culturally so embedded, you just reference it as a sort of shorthand. Truth is, life's richer for having both Joni and Bob.
I think she has a FAR more nuanced knowledge of Bob Dylan than you ever could, little fella. 😂🤦♂️
@@yogsenforfoth5948Hang on - how do you know they’re little?
I think if he was a plagiarist someone would have figured out by now what the hell "All along the watch tower" was about, at least by reference to what it was supposedly "plagiarised from". (And yes there's biblical imagery in it but that's not what plagiarism means).
@@rlawrence9838i wanna reqd the japanese hoodulm novel mentioned in this song
Somehow I can imagine Bob having bad breath😂
Artists are passionate people- who knows where the animosity stems from but she had a right to her opinion. I’ve not heard her say anything bad about other people- just him. I know personally as I get older I just say my truth more and more and let the chips fall where they may. With that being said, however, I hold a lot fewer grudges- time has softened my harsh opinions (and my memory of why I felt so strongly)and I find myself not wanting to carry others past trespasses. I hope she was at peace when she died. I think they both were amazingly talented!
As far as I know Joni Michell is still very much alive and has gone back to touring .
Joni and Quincy Jones (He proclaimed The Beatles stink and Paul is the worlds worst bass player) are probably two of the most clueless people on the planet!!
Quincy Jones is not far off
Nah but you are
Joni has plenty of clues. The problem is, she's a narcissist.
Poor Joni; her fame was never enough and her bitter complaints are a large part of her interviews for many years. She had so much yet cannot seem to see it. She was great. Dylan was also great. Move on.
"Plagarism"??? (at 1.57). Really? Who wrote/narrated this? The Philistines? 🙄And Mitchell has always been delirious, anyway. She said in an interview that Dylan's Masters Of War (1962) was about "spitting on the graves of soldiers who died in the Vietnam war", except that the song was written before the escalation of the Vietnam war and it's obviously about what is now commonly called the "military industrial complex" (as the title clearly suggests), not common, young soldiers who were conscripted in the US army... Once she played her new album to Dylan and Dylan fell asleep; she never forgave him for that, lol! And the many "compliments" about Mitchell are pure hyperbole...
This is bullshit. They are the best of friends. They are painting buddies. They call each other all the time. She told my friend Gabe Gordon that when he auditioned to play with her on her next album (because he's very hip to open tunings). She could say what she did because she knew he would not consider it an attack, but just interview chat. They hate interviews.
Usually when there’s a dispute like this amongst professionals it’s not the music they are fighting about. Perhaps Bob did something she didn,t like dumping Joan Baez , or something else. It’s a personal thing rather than a work thing. Once you have a grudge against someone, you take it out any way you can. It’s beyond repair. Love them both.
Actually, she was also jelous of the friendship between Joan and Bob at the time of Rollin Thunder.
Bob might have borrowed a lot of bits, but he makes such magic with them that all is forgiven.
He's worth more than any one Beatle, IMHO, if such things could ever be measured.
I thought about this for a while what Joni said about Bob. I think she's amazing and all, but wasn't she in a serious relationship with David Crosby back in the day? Wonder what she thought about his breath, guitar playing?
According to Crosby...she sang the song The Midway right to Crosby in the room as she wrote it..then sang it a second time..thus ending their relationship right there. Crosby said he was devastated by what she did. She;s no angel either.
So jealous still !!!
I love Joni but she does come across as bitter. She has her Sun conjunct Mercury in Scorpio which can be a sharp toungue with invective. She also has her Moon conjunct her MC, the career point, in Pisces; a snappy disposition for sure.
Her Venus, in Virgo, is opposite the Moon, in Pisces, and her Saturn is 90° to both. A T Square and this aspect is a very difficult aspect. And Saturn there and in Gemini would make her curmudgeonly in her pronouncements.
Dylan has a Grand Cross in those 3 signs plus his Ascendant in Sagittarius. These people are gifted with _long travel suspension_ which allows them to override obstacles here.
Both are great but Dylan transcends all rock n rollers in any of their guises.
Love Bob and Joni both. Joni made some distasteful comments about him, who cares? Old news.
Bitter she never made it to the ranks she felt she deserved, not invited to Woodstock - slept with literally all of Laurel canyon and beyond, she’s overrated in my opinion , boring sad blah songs, her high voice hurt my ears
She was invited to Woodstock. She didn't go because her manager at the time, David Geffen, had her stay in NY to be on the Dick Cavett show.
What a stupid comment
She made it to the top of the mountains and remains there. Wonder about your bitterness though, Bond rejection perhaps?
A legend in her own mind, shame on her if she did say, if true I'm still a fan of her music but not a fan of her anymore, come to think of it she did bag David Crosby, rejection can bring out the real inner self ✌️❤️🙏
Well she is a legend. Not just in her own mind
What's there to like?
Joni is a strong artist but her comments on Bob were tantamount to betrayal
In this video, Joni doesn't say anything bad about Dylan. I love the love she has for Dylan maybe someone should make a video of her smiling which will prove her love for Dylan🤗🥰.
Don’t believe one word . Amazing you can blab any thing you want
Her lyrics don't come close to Dylan. She must be jealous
Bob is not only the greatest modern songwriter and story teller but he revolutionized the art form at great personal risk. He influenced Hendrix, the Beatles and Clapton and many others and we would not have had the sixties like we did without Dylan. Sure there may have been synthesis in some of his work but that is true for all of us. He even borrowed from the Bible so how is that a sin. Dylan's work is astounding.
everyone has an opinion huh.
I dunno about the Bible part. Not religious but the rest of your comment is right on the money. Hendrix was nuts about him.
“ outside in the distance a wild cat did growl 2 riders were approaching & the wind begins to howl”
It’s as if he wrote it for Hendrix
But Joni has God On Her Side. Snicker.
He completely changed rock songwriting there was nothing before Dylan it was girls and cars
I rate dylan without rating Mitchell much but i find it really irritating when people assume that the criticisms of a less successful person of a more successful person can only be jealousy...If that was the case then no one would ever be able to criticise someone more famous than them even if they genuinely felt their art was sub par.
Pissed off and conceited Bob Dylan. He will forget your name before you even leave the room
Worse than jealous. She wasn't as admired nor a good artist. Comments are scathing.
for most of her life, Joni said very nice things about Dylan and his music. It's only in the last few years that she began to slander him. I have no idea what her problem is.
Ask yourself "Who, from her past; does Joni actually get along-with/like/speak kindly of today"? Yea, NOBODY. Think about it. Must be everyone else. It can't be Joni, she is 'great'; must be everyone else.
She got along with Leonard Cohen, Neil Young, David Geffen, Graham Nash, and James Taylor. Just to name a few off the top of my head.
@@noobstardust5970 Read again, or read better. I wrote: "speak kindly of today". She trashes/trashed everyone of those you mentioned time-and-time-again. Don't make me post quotes: you look them up. She is a bitter one and always has been from all accounts (period).
@@noobstardust5970All musicians love her.
@@noobstardust5970 Gets along with DAVID GEFFEN..yeah that impresses me..NOT LOL
Didnt she sleep with mist of them dylan not he never bad mouth other people@noobstardust5970
Many people don't get Bob, they see him perform live and are not impressed. They are put to sleep by his lyrics and irritated by his voice. I know, i know.
I heard him say he'd been in Joni's car and she was a good driver...?
Apparently a reporter once said to her in the earlier days... " you've written some pretty good songs....."how do you compare yourself to Dylan?". There was a short pause, then she answered..."I can sing". Love her, man, she's a genius and a truly incredible musician. Dylan is neither, but is a great songwriter. Possibly one of the best.
bob was an incredible musician at one point as well, he may not have the guitar chops anymore but if you listen to his fingerpicking techniques and unique voicing of words in his early stuff you'll see there's nothing short of genius. Check out Moonshiner on the album the bootleg series. Listen to the harmonica and the timing of the notes, there is pure soul and musicianship in that recording. Joni was great but bob could lead a band as a musician much greater than Joni ever did.
Dylan WAS a genius and at times still shows genius. What do you mean by "possibly one of the best" as opposed to BEST of all time,. which he IS. Who are you ranking HIGHER..this should be a FUN answer. Even The Beatles knew DYlan was the real deal. Better songwriter than all 4 of them in 1965
@@Piggy-Oink-Oink
Of course he was ✅✅✅
Sometimes it’s a personal grudge and not a professional one. Maybe Bob tried to get in her pants when they were practicing at her place in the villege😂
Dylan can't sing like Picasso can't paint
He's a fabulous singer.
Joni should just admit he broke her heart.
No she is speaking the truth
How would we know she is talking the truth, to say Dylan copies all his lyrics is a big statement, some one said to someone who overheard somebody else, ✌️❤️🙏
I think it's Joan Baez who's heart was broken by Dylan, not Joni Mitchell
Without dylan there would not be any joni. Dylan is alot smarter then joni. Dylan quit smoking. Joni still smokes.
No.
Joni is a true original!They get offended by thieves!
She was raised on robbery to quote her self, to run some body else down if true, shame on her, 🚶🚶🚶🏃✌️❤️🙏
she no wear near dylan lets be real
A lot of this seems to be about Who's A Bigger Jerk-Joni Or Bob?, but I've never heard anything good about Dylan's personality.
The truth is that all folk music can be classed as plagiarism and it’s fair to ask could Joni’s career have been possible without Bob’s trail blazing. I am a huge fan of both Bob and Joni.
Joni ,is a beautiful human being .
Because he rejected her. Bottom line
not a chance..
Hmmmmmmmmmm
I never understood why Bob Dylan had any popularity.
Jealous Joni eh !
Dylan never dissed her !
She's such a SOURPUSS....don't be taken in.
She didn't contact her daughter for over 30 odd years after she'd had her adopted....
The woman isn't the great legend you might think she is....she is merely a human with a great many faults.
However her songs are good x
Well, Joni is a HEAVY chain smoker, so I can’t imagine that her breath smelled very much better than Bob’s. 😂
Ever heard of brushing teeth?
She denies these remarks. and we should believe her. Besides, she smokes like a chimney, so her breath could probably wilt flowers.
One thing Joni would NOT be...envious of anyone's adulation, that statment is just stupid. Dylan's poetic instinct was almost beyond comprehension...but Joni was a better lyricist...
"You're a coward against the altitudes
A coward against tbe flesh ,
Coward..caught between yes and no
Restless this time on the line for yes yes yes
So she is a smoker and she complains about Dylan's breath? Wonder who she blames for her current poor health. After her pitiful performance at the Grammys tonight, I am confident that Dylan will say nice things about her or nothing at all.
He hadn't plagerized. It's called flipping words - or intertextualizing
He's a plagiarist in his painting. I can't forgive him forthat. Joni is a real painter.
All painters plagiarise
Joni always came across as a narcissist type to me.
But then again she never billed me for her personal attributes, only her music
Iam with joni all the way❤
This is the most rediculace thing I've ever heard if it is true, shame on Joni, Dylan is one of the great song writers of all time, I've only ever heard her say good things about him, she is a legend in her own mind🚶🚶🚶🏃✌️🙏
No. She's more than just a legend. lol
Joni is also one of the greatest songwriters of all time, her catalogue is incredible. So is Dylan's.
They are both cranky narcissists. Can’t blame em as they were both gifted and worshipped by flatterers and imitators for decades. Pioneers whose past lives have become the stuff of legend and folklore. Unfortunately they couldn’t possibly have any perspective about their own work or contributions because the ego tends to bury the truth. They stood on the shoulders of artists that came before them. This seems to be lost on Joni. She sees herself as a Michelangelo or Shakespeare. Pure originality. It’s nauseating.
Is this a robot voiceover? The guy talks super weird
Some people are tending to sound like Sat Navs. I don’t know if this voice is real or a AI but no one really uses this sort of intonation and emphasis, do they.
@@iansutherlandcraig In terms of intonation, I hear a vague resemblance to the way Mitch Hedberg (RIP) used to deliver his jokes.
There’s plenty of websites on Dylan’s plagiarism. Mitchell disliked Dylan because he was a phony. Joan Baez seems to have come to the same conclusion.
I don't think Joni is "bitter". She just hasnt given a single f* since about 1968 😂
Joni Mitchell never lies✨🍷
How would you know?
She wrote a couple of fine songs. That's about it.
2 more than you.
Couple fine songs Better than bob Dylan's
Joni is a people's person a true empath. Doesn't suffer fools gladly.
Oh, I know the answer to this question! It's because Dylan murdered her hit song, Big Yellow Taxi.
Dylan doesn't care about such low-class acting people and the whole problem seems to be that Joni didn't get the attention(or Bob's reaction) which she needed so badly
Nah joni is simply right, She is a true original, obviously she dont wanna be compared to someone like bob
Joni didn't give a shit about not getting enough attention or adulation.. it was the envy and resentment that came at her from all around that she hated. And I daresay that she would more likely have been the one to refuse any amorous advsnces
Embarrassing.
She just bitter
Hard rain, Lord Randll, an old English folk song. He did well. Anyone could have done it, i’m sure, …but he did. I’m English, i was a kid when that was a big hit, but no school music teacher pointed that out to me. But i can’t stand these everyone on (folksy) stage efforts where they dress up as All American stereotypes and pretend all huggermugger to like each other(that “Boss” guy, Bob’s son, totally naused me out) thankfully i live in England.
Yes jealously, his jealously of her. Joni Mitchell is waaaaaay better than Bob Dylan, in every way, not even the in the same solar system.
This is one of those AI generated videos. Listen closley to the voice, its not real. The only thing fake is this video. I dont trust anything said here.
I like them both, but it is true that Dylan reinvents many traditional songs. I guess that is folk music, reinterpreting old things for a new day.
Yeah, stuff such as Like A Rolling Stone and Subterranean Homesick Blues were such a rehash of traditional music, right?
Joni Mitchell is much more impressive on a artistic level
Name the songs?
@@noralamartina9536 what?
Stick to wailing
stick to surfing lol
@@freespyrit someone's tired
@@andrewhenderson8320 someone's fried
Dylan is fake.
I always thought Bob Dylan was extremely overrated.
✅ 'Promo SM'