Awesome! I can't wait to see this thing out on track! A trick i learned for making geometric real life things from CAD is to cut each side out in vinyl. Then just stick that vinyl to the wood or cardboard to get your shapes quickly. Might save some time.
Most people don’t realise how important sealed radiator ducting is to keeping an engine cool , especially with modern high output engines with aero becoming more mainstream . Job well done as far as I’m concerned and on a realistic budget. 👍 Jus as important is the old E36 in the background ❤, weirdly I’ve just made a full carbon splitter/ radiator duct for my GTR race car .
As you ended up with a bunch of flat panels joined together, like your cardboard mockup, you could just lay up and vacuum bag cure a bunch of flat carbon fibre sheets, cut out the shapes like the cardboard, then stitch and glue them together, like some boats are made. No mould required. The joints would be covered over with epoxied carbon tapes. The only "mould" is the cardboard model. If you use a very smooth plastic or Mylar as the releasing agent on the surface you lay up the panels on, the inside of your ducts will be very smooth!
Kevin, the reason it was thick plywood is mainly due to the ability for the vacuum to pull hard enough that it can warp, brake, or collapse the wood. But I think I see what you are suggesting in a way make the flat parts and bond them together kind of like legos. That would work but with making multiple pieces you hope they fit together when it is all done. that and the seems on the carbon fiber you bond together are not as strong as the single piece so your including a lot of stress able joints to your end product. The fewer pieces you need to bond together after the fact the better in my view so that's why we settled on making it this way. I would have made it out of 1 single piece of carbon if I could but that would be super time consuming to make that mold. Plus it is a lot cheaper to screw up with plywood than it does making a bad batch of carbon fiber parts. I hope this helps and explains why we went this direction? if not kick me in the teeth and I will try again!
@@commodorepdog32No you have completely missed the point. You should look at some you tube videos of how stitch and glue construction works. My idea is to layup and vacuum bag cure say a 4x8 sheet of carbon fiber on a flat table top. after its completely cured and dry, take your various cardboard patterns, transfer them to your carbon panels, cut them out, and stitch them together with fine copper wire, or fine zip ties. Then you have your shape, carbon tape all the joints and you're done. All the "hard pull" of the vacuum bagging is done on a flat solid table top.
@@KevinONeil-k8d Agreed. so much quicker and simpler. If going to the hassle of making a buck I'd take advantage of the opportunity to have round edges not square.
Kevin, Understood. Both ways would work I see advantages to yours. For me the way we did it felt safer with my skill set for success. Also we can easier make a second batch of parts for spares maybe. But both can get you the same result. Until I try your method I won’t know which is better. One of the main reasons I would say I like my way is sadly I hate trimming and working with done carbon fiber products. The itchiness of it. 🤮
What was the basis for choosing to have the duct go from the small mouth to about double then into the rad? I'm thinking that would cause some unknown turbulence variables as the air goes from high speed and high pressure, to a lower pressure and turbulence and then has to change direction as it hits the rad fins at about a 60deg angle. I may be wrong, but it looks like it will be messy and poorly flowing air. As far as I'm aware, having square corners on the duct is also not helping with airflow.
Nathan, First the picture for the video Ep2 shows you barely the radiator and oil cooler openings that I am working with. Didn’t want to change that from original. Second: Bernoulli’s covers this a bit. So small opening into larger space. The velocity of the air will decrease (rule of continuity) the slower the air the easier it is for it to turn corners. It also does a better job of exchanging heat. Third: the sealing of the air coming into the radiator further up should help pressurize the front side of the radiator. Helping to smooth out airflow entering the radiator. And lastly. We will be putting some honeycomb onto the front and rear surfaces of the fins for the radiator. It helps protect the radiators and smooth up the airflow. Hope this is helpful.
@commodorepdog32 the honey comb could be good to help direct the air to the rad fin orientation. As for the air flow and pressure, I understand the pressure, then lower flow dynamic, but my concern is that this may cause enough back pressure to effect the inlet air (unless it has heaps of external air flow with a reasonable high pressure zone to overcome this).
@ your on it. Yes. All of those are true. But I am borrowing from success so I should be solid. Along with that we’re not done with cooling modifications. Radiator is getting thicker. Oil cooler is bigger than I ran with 1L. I should be ok on all fronts. And never have I had this sealed of an inlet air system. Always pirate air could leak by.
I had a similar issue when creating a cross-sectional “spiral” inside a vertical concrete poured-in-place chimney. We wanted to keep the x-sectional area the same all the way up, but the chimney changed its external x-section as it went up. We cut solid stryofoam block, using simple math to keep the sizing correct, as it changed orientation. You could do the same to create your plug, over which to lay the CF. The styrofoam was tightly wrapped in plastic sheet before pouring the concrete, then we just opened the plastic, and poured gasoline on the styrofoam, dissolving it, and making our very own napalm!🔥🔥 The interior flue was perfectly smooth, with perfect airflow.
Great progress. One step at a time
It’s a slow step at a time.
Awesome! I can't wait to see this thing out on track! A trick i learned for making geometric real life things from CAD is to cut each side out in vinyl. Then just stick that vinyl to the wood or cardboard to get your shapes quickly. Might save some time.
Not a bad idea! Will try that next time!
Very nice! keep it up!
Thank Supra! Its slow going which is frustrating but super happy with where they are going!
@@commodorepdog32 I hear ya, I've been building my supra for 3 years now and still not running or driving lol.
It's tough isn't it!
Most people don’t realise how important sealed radiator ducting is to keeping an engine cool , especially with modern high output engines with aero becoming more mainstream .
Job well done as far as I’m concerned and on a realistic budget. 👍
Jus as important is the old E36 in the background ❤, weirdly I’ve just made a full carbon splitter/ radiator duct for my GTR race car .
You know my pain then! Good luck with your project!
As you ended up with a bunch of flat panels joined together, like your cardboard mockup, you could just lay up and vacuum bag cure a bunch of flat carbon fibre sheets, cut out the shapes like the cardboard, then stitch and glue them together, like some boats are made. No mould required. The joints would be covered over with epoxied carbon tapes. The only "mould" is the cardboard model. If you use a very smooth plastic or Mylar as the releasing agent on the surface you lay up the panels on, the inside of your ducts will be very smooth!
Kevin, the reason it was thick plywood is mainly due to the ability for the vacuum to pull hard enough that it can warp, brake, or collapse the wood. But I think I see what you are suggesting in a way make the flat parts and bond them together kind of like legos. That would work but with making multiple pieces you hope they fit together when it is all done. that and the seems on the carbon fiber you bond together are not as strong as the single piece so your including a lot of stress able joints to your end product. The fewer pieces you need to bond together after the fact the better in my view so that's why we settled on making it this way. I would have made it out of 1 single piece of carbon if I could but that would be super time consuming to make that mold. Plus it is a lot cheaper to screw up with plywood than it does making a bad batch of carbon fiber parts.
I hope this helps and explains why we went this direction? if not kick me in the teeth and I will try again!
@@commodorepdog32No you have completely missed the point. You should look at some you tube videos of how stitch and glue construction works. My idea is to layup and vacuum bag cure say a 4x8 sheet of carbon fiber on a flat table top. after its completely cured and dry, take your various cardboard patterns, transfer them to your carbon panels, cut them out, and stitch them together with fine copper wire, or fine zip ties. Then you
have your shape, carbon tape all the joints and you're done. All the "hard pull" of the vacuum bagging is done on a flat solid table top.
@@KevinONeil-k8d Agreed. so much quicker and simpler. If going to the hassle of making a buck I'd take advantage of the opportunity to have round edges not square.
Kevin,
Understood. Both ways would work I see advantages to yours. For me the way we did it felt safer with my skill set for success. Also we can easier make a second batch of parts for spares maybe. But both can get you the same result. Until I try your method I won’t know which is better.
One of the main reasons I would say I like my way is sadly I hate trimming and working with done carbon fiber products. The itchiness of it. 🤮
Nice. It's good to see the progress.
Thanks Big Cat! Sadly with stuff like this progress is slow....
@@commodorepdog32 trust me I know, Just keep at it and you'll be on track soon. Where are you planning to run it first?
Hoping to run at Buttonwillow Raceway Park late February as a kick off. Fingers are still crossed though!
What was the basis for choosing to have the duct go from the small mouth to about double then into the rad? I'm thinking that would cause some unknown turbulence variables as the air goes from high speed and high pressure, to a lower pressure and turbulence and then has to change direction as it hits the rad fins at about a 60deg angle. I may be wrong, but it looks like it will be messy and poorly flowing air. As far as I'm aware, having square corners on the duct is also not helping with airflow.
Nathan,
First the picture for the video Ep2 shows you barely the radiator and oil cooler openings that I am working with. Didn’t want to change that from original.
Second: Bernoulli’s covers this a bit. So small opening into larger space. The velocity of the air will decrease (rule of continuity) the slower the air the easier it is for it to turn corners. It also does a better job of exchanging heat.
Third: the sealing of the air coming into the radiator further up should help pressurize the front side of the radiator. Helping to smooth out airflow entering the radiator.
And lastly. We will be putting some honeycomb onto the front and rear surfaces of the fins for the radiator. It helps protect the radiators and smooth up the airflow.
Hope this is helpful.
@commodorepdog32 the honey comb could be good to help direct the air to the rad fin orientation. As for the air flow and pressure, I understand the pressure, then lower flow dynamic, but my concern is that this may cause enough back pressure to effect the inlet air (unless it has heaps of external air flow with a reasonable high pressure zone to overcome this).
@ your on it. Yes. All of those are true. But I am borrowing from success so I should be solid. Along with that we’re not done with cooling modifications. Radiator is getting thicker. Oil cooler is bigger than I ran with 1L. I should be ok on all fronts. And never have I had this sealed of an inlet air system. Always pirate air could leak by.
I had a similar issue when creating a cross-sectional “spiral” inside a vertical concrete poured-in-place chimney. We wanted to keep the x-sectional area the same all the way up, but the chimney changed its external x-section as it went up. We cut solid stryofoam block, using simple math to keep the sizing correct, as it changed orientation. You could do the same to create your plug, over which to lay the CF. The styrofoam was tightly wrapped in plastic sheet before pouring the concrete, then we just opened the plastic, and poured gasoline on the styrofoam, dissolving it, and making our very own napalm!🔥🔥 The interior flue was perfectly smooth, with perfect airflow.