You need to do an updated video. I'm a church planter, and will soon buy equipment. I love this video, but an updated video will be helpful as I look for equipment.
Hey Michael, I am designing a system right now for a church plant. Shoot me a message on what your budget is and I would be glad to send you an updated list.
@@kdking1976 - I'm still working on that. I'll take whatever you have, but I don't want to post my email address here. Also, I'm not sure how to send you a message.
We actually do use most of what he talks about here - from the line fed in ears, we use an xr 18 air, powered yamaha speakers/subs, electronic drums, and an optima short throw projector. I can attest - this setup really works well.
I agree with all of this except for the speakers. For portable systems power is a headache and having to deal with more power cables means more extension cables and power strips in places they don't need to be when your'e not guaranteed clean grounded power in easily accessible locations. A Passive speaker pole mounted on top of a passive sub sitting on the side of the stage where you only have one cable run (2 speak-on's wrapped together) leading back the the rolling rack with 2 amps from the behringer iNuke series (very affordable). So you're looking at about 12 rack spaces for the x32, 2 amps, the line 6 modulator, an 8 channel headphone amp, and a rack mounted Furman power conditioner. Simple setup just pull out the speaker cables and then the power cable and plug those 5 in and all your system is needing after that is instruments to be plugged in. This also eliminates buzzing caused by ground loops while having a very clean efficient setup.
Great thoughts, DJ. The one thing we didn't add in this video is that good powered speakers actually use Powercon cables. This means that each powered speaker and sub can daisy chain it's power through the in/out powercon cable input. So, in some ways, you are correct. Bad power can ruin a self-powered speaker setup. But if you run from one clean outlet, you can actually daisy from that one outlet to power the speakers. So minimum cables, clean power, and incredible speaker quality. Thanks for the comment!
ive refit our portable church, we have a Yamaha MG16XU analogue mixer (so our volunteers know how to operate the mixer without too much training) and we have added a DBX Driverack to handle all of the EQ so no need for a digital desk. with speakers, the hall that we hire purchased a system for themselves at the same time so we dont have to worry about setting up the system also we run wireless mics instead of wired mics, and for getting our signal into the speakers i have found a cheap solution with 4x XLR's converting to CAT6. so i run 1 cable to the speaker system instead of 2 or 4. with the guitar i have another pair of the XLR-CAT6 converters that is plugged into a DI box and the rest is spare (although this is going to change soon to a XLR loom
I went down the edrum path, and after wasting $2-3K, we went back to acoustic. Tried both hi-end Rolands for triggers, hybrid, and addictive drums + laptop. The solution isn't $1800, because you need another laptop ontop of that. It might work with some churches, and as a drummer/worship leader, I was never happy with the sound, particularly in a dynamic live setting. Acoustic sets with a good isolation booth sound much better than electric sets. A drummer with good control can do it with just a drum shield + rug + acoustic panels. An acoustic set is likely more expensive though. The biggest issue with edrums for me, is the cymbals. I've sequenced with addictive drums and love the sound of it for studio work where you can carefully tweak velocities, change out snares, mics, etc., but for live usage, it still doesn't quite work. Drummers have a hard time translating playing on mesh/rubber vs. a drum head. There are other tricks that one can leverage to lower drum volume too - big fat snare drum heads, felt, skirting your snare, cymbal shields, etc. Tone is worth it. :)
I would use instead a X32 rack use one or two small Behringer analog mixer, that have one knob compression plus graphic equalizer and effects. The musicians gets the FOH sound onto the stage. Depending to the size and power, I would use LD Systems MAUI 5 to MAUI 28, possibly one additional subwoofer. There are inexpensive DMX lights. About drums, Cajon is also an alternative.
My how tech has changed. For those who don’t have 5k+ to spend, look for used gear. For a pa, Yamahas are fine, the power amp can even be an old stereo receiver (free-$25) if super loud volume is not needed, such as with acoustic guitars. Also a small mixer for the vocals and keyboard. Guitar and bass players often have smaller combo amps that can be plenty loud. I wouldn’t want to lug a half stack either.
As someone who has to endure mixing on an iPad every Sunday, I DO care, and it is one of the worst mixing experiences I could ever possibly imagine. That said, in the case of a portable church that tradeoff would need to be considered, as I personally would prefer to take some extra time to set up even a tiny X32 compact, just to SIGNOFICANTLY improve the mixing experience
X32 on iPad sucks. We use the Touchmix 30 Pro and the main reason for it was the "easier" user interface on the Mac. Seems like everyone uses the X32/M32... We don't have any place in the back to but a FOH mixer, so it's iPad or mix on stage.
Not all apps/mixers are equal in this area. I often get the option of both, control on a desk and through wifi. I use my phone most of the time. Beginners can actually start more easily through their phones. Everything is more familiar this way, and very visual. People coming from analog have the most difficulty transitioning maybe.
Probably a nice diagram or illustration to show the connections will make more sense and easy to visualize, not all new small church plant have a techie guy, sometimes its the Pastor who do techs as well. Peace!
I really disagree with a lot of things said in this video. Josh is extremely misinformed on how some things work and in some areas he just doesn’t know what he is talking about. Churches please. Before you spend a penny on your portable church get a second, third or forth opinion. This might work for them and their needs but it won’t be a perfect fit for you.
Totally agree.... I’ve actually heard very BAD reviews on the mixture he spoke about. WiFi isn’t always reliable. Or if you don’t have an iPad running. Say you forgot it or it died or got lost. No sound board.
Can you please let me know what you disagree with and any other videos/links I should look at? I'm trying to get my Church on board to use better equipment (we still use wedges, PowerPoint and amplifiers) and I need to present them with alternatives PERFECTLY or they get rejected outright.
Brock Zwicke I use the BEHRINGER Xavier in our church. Haven’t had an issue. Works like a charm. I would absolutely go for the ultranet speakers as well if I was upgrading. This guy knows what he’s talking about. Ipad works fine. And you don’t need internet. You need wifi signal. Bring your own router. Use a gaming router so it’s fast.
@@patrickwallace8242 the sound doesn't go through wifi... It's just control. Move closer and your fine. No dropouts in any case. General statements like this cannot be optimal in every situations. But he does know what he's talking about.
Does Proclaim work with planning center and CCLI? I mean, are people out there using this program and not reporting the songs that are being used in their church? Cause if so, not only is that illegal....
Not for my church, but almost exactly the same audio setup for my GB band!! haha If ever I'm helping other church to start their equipment purchase, I'd definitely start from here too and adjust accordingly to their budget and capacity.
I agree with most things except the drums. While you’re right that electric drums would work better for sound purposes, the setup would take far longer to setup
This is defiantly all over the place. A little thrown back by all the “For the love of God” drops......... Telling people 1 cable is better then the other is a little off as well not sure cat6 is better then xlr, or that running extension cords are easier, better or less time consuming then running speaker wires/amps.... And IPad mixing is good but not flawless, if your that small and don’t need a big board don’t get one - 16 channel can get most portable church’s by. If you don’t know sound (and I never once heard this mentioned) contact a sale person at one of the reputable companies (that work with churches) for help with a setup. They are more then willing to help you out. I like a lot of the vids created, and believe there a lot of people that need the help. But like I said this one is all over the place..........
Ok I disagree with a bunch but why is this guy(and a bunch of others) against stage noise. I prefer stage noise but that’s just me I guess. I’d rather pay for two monitors instead of 4-6 or more in ear rigs.
Awesome video and I love your approach/thought. What is the best way to set up the video projection? Do you run the computer close to the stage, do you use the Proclaim remote, etc. Thanks!
At josh's church they use a short throw projector and they run hdmi over ethernet from their tech booth to the stage. Not sure what he uses for Proclaim control
Bit new to the tech world. Can you send audio from your computer to the x32 rack via Ethernet? This is if I wanna play videos (Ads and announcements for eg) during the concert
Just a question regarding the drums. Can you specify which addictive drums program to purchase considering a tight budget? Also, for the drum kit any suggestions on which module and conversion kits do you recommend? Thanks! Godbless!
I normally like the content on here... but this is a bit deceiving. I don't really want AVL or music gear advice from a senior pastor.... no offense to him or anything... But also how can we trust a guy who keeps saying eXspecially? If your church plant cant afford a few of these basic items Im wondering if you really should be planting a small group in your home instead...
I don’t think list is realistic to a lot of start-up/portable churches. The mixer, speakers, and subwoofers alone $5,432. If i were to price out the entire list it would get pretty exorbitant.
Portable church is not "one size fits all". Do not do it yourself or try to build your gear list by watching a youtube video. Go through Portable Church Industries or Church in a Box. Some of these suggestions are way off!
100% agree. We are meeting out of a movie theater. A lot of the "portable" stuff doesn't work because we need to physically distribute equipment differently. My BIGGEST recommendation is to start SIMPLE. VERY SIMPLE (e.g PowerPoint vs Proclaim, who I LOVE and use). You will be inherently short on people. Adding complexity adds time. Added time adds frustration to your volunteers. A lot of the "fancy" stuff isn't needed for GOD to do his work through us :)
Although this is Great suggestions and most of it is pretty close I can attest that the X32 Rack is one versatile piece of gear! I play in a praise and worship band that travels sometimes and that x32 is fantastic however one thing I disagree with is the Drum emulator, let me explain a bit in detail in hindsight it is a fantastic idea and one that I have personally tried using Stephen Slate drums. There where 2 major problems that couldn’t be overcome with this set up. The Biggest one is LATENCY! Being a drummer you cannot afford to hear the samples late not even a few milliseconds I felt like I was always behind the click. There is a way to overcome this bit again takes big bucks! My 2012 MacBook Pro did not have enough CPU to push this set up to allow except able latency before it would start to drop samples, to get something with a quad core processor to allow enough CPU to get Latency where it needs to be would cost at least 2K. And the second problem and this was the deal breaker Cymbal sounds are not good at all in samples !!! Not to mention that programs like addictive drums are not very tailored to worship sounds in regards to cymbals which need to be dry dark and washy! Not to mention the Cymbal triggers to get anywhere close to replicating a real Cymbal are upwards of 450 each !!! At this price point you could have bought k darks or Heart beat Custom dry cymbals and a complete drum enclosure!
I would prefer a mixing console, that is less confusing. A&H digital mixers can be controlled by an iPad. In ear makes it easy to get good sound from stage and the artists can use click also. But this way we have to use digital drums. About speakers, active speakers have XLR, I would use 15" subwoofers plus tops, traditional as 2 way with 12" or as column system (maybe something like Bose L1 or HK Audio Elements). I wouldn't discard inexpensive stuff, but carefully check. Inexpensive speakers can sound very very good.
I could compare digital drums and miked analog drums, digital is better. And so we use V Drums from Roland with its pads and its perfect and better than to put the drummer behind plastic walls.
You need to do an updated video. I'm a church planter, and will soon buy equipment. I love this video, but an updated video will be helpful as I look for equipment.
Hey Michael,
I am designing a system right now for a church plant. Shoot me a message on what your budget is and I would be glad to send you an updated list.
@@kdking1976 - I'm still working on that. I'll take whatever you have, but I don't want to post my email address here. Also, I'm not sure how to send you a message.
Great video! But do you have a newer video? Or does all the equipment still stand as the best to get for a portable churcb?
We actually do use most of what he talks about here - from the line fed in ears, we use an xr 18 air, powered yamaha speakers/subs, electronic drums, and an optima short throw projector. I can attest - this setup really works well.
Actually - we also use a bass amp emulator.
Your set-up is much more realistic. What speakers/subs do you have?
I agree with all of this except for the speakers. For portable systems power is a headache and having to deal with more power cables means more extension cables and power strips in places they don't need to be when your'e not guaranteed clean grounded power in easily accessible locations. A Passive speaker pole mounted on top of a passive sub sitting on the side of the stage where you only have one cable run (2 speak-on's wrapped together) leading back the the rolling rack with 2 amps from the behringer iNuke series (very affordable). So you're looking at about 12 rack spaces for the x32, 2 amps, the line 6 modulator, an 8 channel headphone amp, and a rack mounted Furman power conditioner. Simple setup just pull out the speaker cables and then the power cable and plug those 5 in and all your system is needing after that is instruments to be plugged in. This also eliminates buzzing caused by ground loops while having a very clean efficient setup.
Great input! I can totally see how that could work with passive speakers.
Great thoughts, DJ. The one thing we didn't add in this video is that good powered speakers actually use Powercon cables. This means that each powered speaker and sub can daisy chain it's power through the in/out powercon cable input. So, in some ways, you are correct. Bad power can ruin a self-powered speaker setup. But if you run from one clean outlet, you can actually daisy from that one outlet to power the speakers. So minimum cables, clean power, and incredible speaker quality. Thanks for the comment!
ive refit our portable church, we have a Yamaha MG16XU analogue mixer (so our volunteers know how to operate the mixer without too much training) and we have added a DBX Driverack to handle all of the EQ so no need for a digital desk.
with speakers, the hall that we hire purchased a system for themselves at the same time so we dont have to worry about setting up the system
also we run wireless mics instead of wired mics, and for getting our signal into the speakers i have found a cheap solution with 4x XLR's converting to CAT6. so i run 1 cable to the speaker system instead of 2 or 4. with the guitar i have another pair of the XLR-CAT6 converters that is plugged into a DI box and the rest is spare (although this is going to change soon to a XLR loom
I went down the edrum path, and after wasting $2-3K, we went back to acoustic. Tried both hi-end Rolands for triggers, hybrid, and addictive drums + laptop. The solution isn't $1800, because you need another laptop ontop of that. It might work with some churches, and as a drummer/worship leader, I was never happy with the sound, particularly in a dynamic live setting. Acoustic sets with a good isolation booth sound much better than electric sets. A drummer with good control can do it with just a drum shield + rug + acoustic panels. An acoustic set is likely more expensive though. The biggest issue with edrums for me, is the cymbals. I've sequenced with addictive drums and love the sound of it for studio work where you can carefully tweak velocities, change out snares, mics, etc., but for live usage, it still doesn't quite work. Drummers have a hard time translating playing on mesh/rubber vs. a drum head. There are other tricks that one can leverage to lower drum volume too - big fat snare drum heads, felt, skirting your snare, cymbal shields, etc. Tone is worth it. :)
thanks for sharing!
I would use instead a X32 rack use one or two small Behringer analog mixer, that have one knob compression plus graphic equalizer and effects.
The musicians gets the FOH sound onto the stage.
Depending to the size and power, I would use LD Systems MAUI 5 to MAUI 28, possibly one additional subwoofer.
There are inexpensive DMX lights.
About drums, Cajon is also an alternative.
My how tech has changed. For those who don’t have 5k+ to spend, look for used gear. For a pa, Yamahas are fine, the power amp can even be an old stereo receiver (free-$25) if super loud volume is not needed, such as with acoustic guitars. Also a small mixer for the vocals and keyboard. Guitar and bass players often have smaller combo amps that can be plenty loud. I wouldn’t want to lug a half stack either.
As someone who has to endure mixing on an iPad every Sunday, I DO care, and it is one of the worst mixing experiences I could ever possibly imagine. That said, in the case of a portable church that tradeoff would need to be considered, as I personally would prefer to take some extra time to set up even a tiny X32 compact, just to SIGNOFICANTLY improve the mixing experience
X32 on iPad sucks. We use the Touchmix 30 Pro and the main reason for it was the "easier" user interface on the Mac. Seems like everyone uses the X32/M32... We don't have any place in the back to but a FOH mixer, so it's iPad or mix on stage.
Not all apps/mixers are equal in this area. I often get the option of both, control on a desk and through wifi. I use my phone most of the time. Beginners can actually start more easily through their phones. Everything is more familiar this way, and very visual. People coming from analog have the most difficulty transitioning maybe.
Probably a nice diagram or illustration to show the connections will make more sense and easy to visualize, not all new small church plant have a techie guy, sometimes its the Pastor who do techs as well. Peace!
CAT5 DSP huh. Honestly, I love watching this channel. Always amazing content. I do not agree with 90% of advise given in this video.
I really disagree with a lot of things said in this video. Josh is extremely misinformed on how some things work and in some areas he just doesn’t know what he is talking about. Churches please. Before you spend a penny on your portable church get a second, third or forth opinion. This might work for them and their needs but it won’t be a perfect fit for you.
Cole Haaf I was going to comment the same thing.
Totally agree.... I’ve actually heard very BAD reviews on the mixture he spoke about. WiFi isn’t always reliable. Or if you don’t have an iPad running. Say you forgot it or it died or got lost. No sound board.
Can you please let me know what you disagree with and any other videos/links I should look at? I'm trying to get my Church on board to use better equipment (we still use wedges, PowerPoint and amplifiers) and I need to present them with alternatives PERFECTLY or they get rejected outright.
Brock Zwicke I use the BEHRINGER Xavier in our church. Haven’t had an issue. Works like a charm. I would absolutely go for the ultranet speakers as well if I was upgrading. This guy knows what he’s talking about.
Ipad works fine. And you don’t need internet. You need wifi signal. Bring your own router. Use a gaming router so it’s fast.
@@patrickwallace8242 the sound doesn't go through wifi... It's just control. Move closer and your fine. No dropouts in any case. General statements like this cannot be optimal in every situations. But he does know what he's talking about.
One advantage, a cinema has: You can also rent its sound system and projector and use this.
I like the acoustic drums my church is medium size we can hold 300 person still kinda small
If you need any help on the audio side please give us a call. We’ll be glad to help. 😊👍❤️
What about power source? I’d like to see some content on power distribution.
HOW CAN I GET A COPY OF THE EQUIPMENT LIST HE IS DISCUSSING IN THIA VIDEO?.
Does Proclaim work with planning center and CCLI? I mean, are people out there using this program and not reporting the songs that are being used in their church? Cause if so, not only is that illegal....
How does he connect his in ear monitors again?
Boutique or nothing 😂 but you know what your right man. Actully realizing this it really checked my heart and my pride 😂 thank you man! God bless!
Idk about the amps. Just get multiple HX stomps and it will work for acoustics, electric guitars or bass.
Not for my church, but almost exactly the same audio setup for my GB band!! haha
If ever I'm helping other church to start their equipment purchase, I'd definitely start from here too and adjust accordingly to their budget and capacity.
This was a very informative video. Thank you. I am wondering about the backdrop in this video. Is it something that could be purchased?
I agree with most things except the drums. While you’re right that electric drums would work better for sound purposes, the setup would take far longer to setup
At my setup church we use acoustic drums and love it.
Incredible Advice! Thank you so much
This is defiantly all over the place. A little thrown back by all the “For the love of God” drops.........
Telling people 1 cable is better then the other is a little off as well not sure cat6 is better then xlr, or that running extension cords are easier, better or less time consuming then running speaker wires/amps....
And IPad mixing is good but not flawless, if your that small and don’t need a big board don’t get one - 16 channel can get most portable church’s by.
If you don’t know sound (and I never once heard this mentioned) contact a sale person at one of the reputable companies (that work with churches) for help with a setup. They are more then willing to help you out.
I like a lot of the vids created, and believe there a lot of people that need the help. But like I said this one is all over the place..........
Ok I disagree with a bunch but why is this guy(and a bunch of others) against stage noise. I prefer stage noise but that’s just me I guess. I’d rather pay for two monitors instead of 4-6 or more in ear rigs.
Awesome video and I love your approach/thought. What is the best way to set up the video projection? Do you run the computer close to the stage, do you use the Proclaim remote, etc. Thanks!
At josh's church they use a short throw projector and they run hdmi over ethernet from their tech booth to the stage. Not sure what he uses for Proclaim control
Bit new to the tech world. Can you send audio from your computer to the x32 rack via Ethernet? This is if I wanna play videos (Ads and announcements for eg) during the concert
Just a question regarding the drums. Can you specify which addictive drums program to purchase considering a tight budget? Also, for the drum kit any suggestions on which module and conversion kits do you recommend? Thanks! Godbless!
I’m not sure of the details on this but you can reach out to josh at lighthouse church.tv
I normally like the content on here... but this is a bit deceiving. I don't really want AVL or music gear advice from a senior pastor.... no offense to him or anything... But also how can we trust a guy who keeps saying eXspecially? If your church plant cant afford a few of these basic items Im wondering if you really should be planting a small group in your home instead...
If you volunteers have amps already, why not just buy a load box for guitar amps?
With all the gear discussed, cables, stands, mics, etc. How much did this complete system cost?
I don't know the exact number by I think Josh was able to keep their setup under 10k
I don’t think list is realistic to a lot of start-up/portable churches. The mixer, speakers, and subwoofers alone $5,432. If i were to price out the entire list it would get pretty exorbitant.
make sure you buy the best darn wifi you can find, if everything will rely on it.
Portable church is not "one size fits all". Do not do it yourself or try to build your gear list by watching a youtube video. Go through Portable Church Industries or Church in a Box. Some of these suggestions are way off!
100% agree. We are meeting out of a movie theater. A lot of the "portable" stuff doesn't work because we need to physically distribute equipment differently.
My BIGGEST recommendation is to start SIMPLE. VERY SIMPLE (e.g PowerPoint vs Proclaim, who I LOVE and use). You will be inherently short on people. Adding complexity adds time. Added time adds frustration to your volunteers. A lot of the "fancy" stuff isn't needed for GOD to do his work through us :)
Although this is Great suggestions and most of it is pretty close I can attest that the X32 Rack is one versatile piece of gear! I play in a praise and worship band that travels sometimes and that x32 is fantastic however one thing I disagree with is the Drum emulator, let me explain a bit in detail in hindsight it is a fantastic idea and one that I have personally tried using Stephen Slate drums. There where 2 major problems that couldn’t be overcome with this set up. The Biggest one is LATENCY! Being a drummer you cannot afford to hear the samples late not even a few milliseconds I felt like I was always behind the click. There is a way to overcome this bit again takes big bucks! My 2012 MacBook Pro did not have enough CPU to push this set up to allow except able latency before it would start to drop samples, to get something with a quad core processor to allow enough CPU to get Latency where it needs to be would cost at least 2K. And the second problem and this was the deal breaker Cymbal sounds are not good at all in samples !!! Not to mention that programs like addictive drums are not very tailored to worship sounds in regards to cymbals which need to be dry dark and washy! Not to mention the Cymbal triggers to get anywhere close to replicating a real Cymbal are upwards of 450 each !!! At this price point you could have bought k darks or Heart beat Custom dry cymbals and a complete drum enclosure!
That “poor church” phrase just through me off.
Any thoughts on the new allen Heath sq 5 rack mounted mixer
I know allen and heath creates quality products, so if you got the dough, i think it's a great board! I like how it's expandable like the x32 system.
I would prefer a mixing console, that is less confusing. A&H digital mixers can be controlled by an iPad.
In ear makes it easy to get good sound from stage and the artists can use click also. But this way we have to use digital drums.
About speakers, active speakers have XLR, I would use 15" subwoofers plus tops, traditional as 2 way with 12" or as column system (maybe something like Bose L1 or HK Audio Elements).
I wouldn't discard inexpensive stuff, but carefully check. Inexpensive speakers can sound very very good.
Xtouch works on the X rack
Instead of just talking if you could've shown practically would've been great
Buy used. Craigslist, Marketplace, and Reverb will save you money.
It's not easy to bring guitar and bass players to play directly in the sound system. But it's cheaper and easier to use amp simulation.
No live drums got me
Since the setup you are saying to use would be pretty expensive also.
Another great video Jake.
Thanks for all the insights.
I could compare digital drums and miked analog drums, digital is better. And so we use V Drums from Roland with its pads and its perfect and better than to put the drummer behind plastic walls.
Dmx king is made in new zealand
Awesome info, thank you guys for helping us educating the musical market.!
😀
Budget my ass
Yeah nah, so far it’s more going to fail.