Buddy sorry to break it too you. But nearly every verse besides Dragonball, opm, and fate gets downplayed. Like literally boundless and outervesal characters get downplayed to universal, multiversal, and hyper versal. People in 2024 still think naruto isn't planetary despite the fact he's actually far higher than that. Bleach isn't special nor is it the most downplayed
@@Ruler_calamity_477s people literally say naruto caps at contential despite the fact momoshiki literally destroyed a solar system and a base naruto less than 50% in the manga was doing him in. The debate on if he's still planetary still happens, this just shows that people don't actually read and would rather downplay people just because they don't show those. Like Dragonball, opm and many new gen overpowered anime verse's
The proper way to debunk the Gin stuff is to say that the “speed of a clap” can refer to the sound of the clap or to the motion of the person’s hands as they clap, and part of the databook outright confirms the latter interpretation. You’ll see some translations where Gin asks Ichigo, “Did you hear that?” which implies sound, but if you look at the raws that’s not what he said, it was more so, “Did you catch that?”, which doesn’t necessarily imply sound, and, again, the databooks confirm this. Gin wasn’t comparing the speed of his zanpakuto to sound, he was comparing it to the speed of his hands while he was clapping.
@@corruptangel6793 True, but you still see people going “nah they still can’t be FTL or whatever, Ichigo thought Mach 500 was impressive even if Gin lied”, and this completely takes care of that bs
@@guardrailavender To them, I would simply say Ichigo hasn't been measuring himself. His only reference for speed would be his opponents. So, him being shocked (whether from how fast or slow he considered that number to be) is itself meaningless.
@@corruptangel6793 Yeah that's been the counter for a while now, but I still much prefer my method because at that point it doesn't matter how you interpret anything because "mach 500" isn't even in the picture in the first place, it's just an unquantifiable speed. It's pretty much a slam dunk counter argument that addresses everything at the same time.
funnily enough the mach 500 gin is just a mistranslation and has been for like one and a half decades, he refers to the clap of his hand, and his bankai being 500x that speed, not the sound of the clap
Fodder lieutenants at the beginning of the show were able to dodge a purely light-based attack and there are characters that are 1000x times faster than those characters. You really don't need to look any deeper than that...
Also Gins clap when looked at the kanji it’s almost like it’s saying it’s faster than the clap not the sound + shunsui can dodge lillie barous shots that ignore distance and just hit
Which would be by definition at least low infinite to maybe inaccessible speed as he’s literally condensing the X axis to a non point therefore that’s breaking the formula as there’s nothing in the distance to travel in between as the in between is not there
The problem with using descriptives is that the components making up the power are not necessarily photons or their equivalent. Ceros, for example, are explained to be beams of dense spiritual pressure in the first databook. Beams of spiritual light is simply describing the attack, not it's traits or makeup. This is reinforced by Ichigo's explanation to Byakuya that his Getsuga Tenshou is spiritual pressure that's been poured into his Zanpakuto, compressed and magnified, then released as en energy blast. "Flash" is a description. I could described fireworks or sparks as flashes, bursts of light, etc. That doesn't make them lightspeed. The neggeccion is the same. It's appearence is that of light, but is actually a spacial technique that separates the space inside from outside.
Cero are literally straight beam of light that are inhanced by the users Ryriouku saying they arent light is out right stupid or light speed is stupid . They arent described as being condensed Sp at all their out right stated to be light that has sp poured into it
Also why wouldnt they be photons We literally know that All mater on the physical world is the same as all mater in the spiritual world aside from the fact thier either made of Keishi or reishi respectivly . Ceros are also never stated to ge condensed reishi thier stated to be beam with spiritual light that have Reriyouku in them (whoever you spell that word) so not only are they the speed of light they can be faster then the the speed of light thanks to them being enhanced by the wielders Ryriouku similar to how Toshiros ice is stronger then natural ice ,the basis of your argument was stupid from the get go since its outright stated that this was the case also funny how this argument is never used for any else either then light based attacks in bleach . Yall also don't do this stupid shit with naruto and the light fang attack since thats made of charkra . Negacion also is a beam of light that just has the effect of seperating the inside space from the outside space once it connects with its target
I mean first there are other feats like Uryu outspeeding his own shadow in SS or Hollow Kain, whose name I can't spell, running from light. But also do you think Kubo is a moron? He uses the term "light" consistently for a reason. If he meant things like light he'd say that.
@@nahte123456 Of course, there are other feats. I'm only talking about the reliability of visual descriptions, not whether or not the characters are LS. As I said, just because something has the form/appearance of light does not necessarily mean it is lightspeed. Kubo gave appropriate names and descriptions. What else could you call the neggeccion, for example, but light? However, we also know it is a construct that isolates space. It is not made of photons or the reishi equivalent, nor is it ever stated to move at the speed of light.
@@corruptangel6793 Except neggeccion isn't "light" on it's own. It's gold and reality warping, that'd be like calling a blowtorch "light" because it's bright and hot. Not making a light, but being light.
Aizen would slaughter that man. Ichigo’s got higher stats, but he can’t deal with Aizen’s regeneration. Like, imagine how their fight went originally, except this time Urahara isn’t there to bail ichigo out. That’s how it would happen.
7:51 this is an instance of aim dodging as she watches other quincy get hit. This moment is similar to how average people avoid gun fire. This would not mean their speed is on par with a bullet.
@@chriscolombie4135 lilltoto didn’t dodge the aweshwelen point blank. This is also discounting the fact the light based quincy attacks don’t actually have a confirmed speed anyway. So what ever the Aweshwelen’s speed is Lillitoto does not scale to it.
@@roywempor8395 where is the confirmed distance from the palace to the seritete? It is never stated in the manga, anime, novels, or databook. See the issue is the video is claiming it’s light speed because it is light based but now you are claiming it’s faster with no evidence. For all you know it could be much slower. This is why concrete information is important.
@@onesmart229 bleach was light speed in the first arc with uryu outrunning his shadow, this Ichigo is a billion times stronger than that uryu. it took Ichigo 9.15 hours to travel between the palace and the seireitei. 9 hours 15 minutes is 33300 seconds. The speed of light in a vacuum is 3*(108) metres per second. Distance = speed * time Plugging in you get 9.99 * 1012 metres. Which is 9.99 billion kilometres or around 6.2 billion miles.
My issue with speed feats is that the speed of light is just too fast. Anyone who can move even a fraction of the speed of light would utterly annihilate anyone who can’t, there is no match, no fight. It’s fast enough that you could go around the world several times in a second. That’s fine, but there’s always inconsistencies- people who are ‘light speed’ taking time to travel somewhere on the planet is just not possible unless you are slowing everything down by factors of millions.
@@bobowon5450 It doesnt help that most writers probaly didnt think about scaling, they just thought it would be cool to have the characters avoid a laser.
@@swattofficer6624 also doesn't help that if a character sees a hollow charging up a cero, puts up their sword in preparation for the blast, and then the cero launches seconds later, they will take that to mean that the character in question is clearly light speed. even if the cero was the speed of light, that wouldn't entirely mean blocking it makes you light speed considering there is almost always a gesture beforehand
@@bobowon5450 Yeah, like if someone aims a gun at you and it shoots a laser, if you dodge the shot you didnt necessarily dodge the actual laser, you could have moved as you saw, you know, a gun being raised towards you. But powerscalers dont care about that
The Gin debunk doesn't work Him saying that it doesn't extend as far and as fast if anything means that he is SLOWER than he said to aizen not faster and it was said that he lied to aizen not Ichigo. This lie doesn't even work because if Ichigo was light speed so early on he not only wouldn't be intimidated but would immediately know that Gin was lying because he barely reacted to it lol (it would be slower than a snails pace in comparison to him)
The proper way to debunk it is to say that the “speed of a clap” can refer to the sound of the clap or to the motion of the person’s hands as they clap, and part of the databook outright confirms the latter interpretation. You’ll see some translations where Gin asks Ichigo, “Did you hear that?” which implies sound, but if you look at the raws that’s not what he said, it was more so, “Did you catch that?”, which doesn’t necessarily imply sound, and, again, the databooks confirm this. Gin wasn’t comparing the speed of his zanpakuto to sound, he was comparing it to the speed of his hands while he was clapping.
"as far/fast" are ambiguous statements thou, sure they can mean a large measurement of distance/speed but they can also be used as a substitute for them, "how far/fast". So saying that it specifically means it doesn't reach the things he said is an assumption. Not only that why would he make his zanpaktou seem more impressive when his goal is to surprise attack Aizen with it. Plus why would Ichigo know how fast he's moving when he's literally just a dude with know education in what he's doing.
@@bungusbongus the goel is to hide his actual ability from aizen (cell destroying poison thing) there's no actual proof of him lying to Ichigo He lied to aizen and we don't even know what he told aizen in the first place. Ichigo will absolutely know something is wrong when it will take him an hours to actually hear the sounds of the clap and it's a completely unnecessary risk for Gin to do that
Agreed I argued this before apparently ichigo should be much faster than light speed at this point yet couldn't doge Gins attacks which is around 2000 times slower than light.
@kidgoku3763 I can't say for sure we know anime contradicts feats all the time but the databook supposedly states 500x the speed of sound many people have confirmed this.
Holy fuck these arguments are bad. Insisting that "beam" means "beam of light"... Instead of beam being used as a *shape*, like a steel beam. Something being referred to as made of "spiritual light" instantly meaning that it is BOTH made of the Reishi equivalent to photons, and is also moving at the speed of light. When it is supposed to be a spiritual beam weapon - like the Kamehameha - and something being made of light gives no description or meaning to anything else just on its own - like hard light in many sci-fi settings,or green lantern hard light constructs. That EITHER of these arguments is treated at all seriously tells me everything I ever need to know about your level of reading comprehension, media literacy, and about you as a creator. You should try these arguments on a VS forum to get even the lightest idea of how horrifically bad these arguments are.
@@Cringelord06 Rock Lee blitzed his shadow in the chuin exam. Aaroniero moved as the rocks were falling. He did not avoid the light in the way you trying to say.
@@onesmart229 idk why you brought rock Lee into this this isn’t a vs battles video so that made no sense whatsoever I never even said anything about Naruto verse not being light speed goofy and yes aareiero does point out after he dodges the sunlight that light is one of his weaknessses why would he dodge rocks then say he’s weak to sunlight that would make very much sense 🤔
@@Cringelord06 to show an example. Demonstrating it takes more than that to actually establish speed scaling. If the example is that difficult to understand I can’t help you. Aaroniero avoided the light by moving as the rocks were falling, before the hole was complete. He’s weak to light like a vampire. A common trope for vamps is avoiding light when blinds open. This doesn’t establish light speed.
In all honesty I belive bleach charaters are light speed…but only for the god-teirs. The thing about power scalers is that a lot them take statements especially from data books literally instead of figuratively, while also ignoring many contructions in the manga in the of these charaters are light speed. Considering many of them are faster then others, are unable to cross much larger distances in an instant. Of course there are powersclaers that dismiss these arguments by saying that it is fiction…but that argument fails because they don’t use hard evidence in said fictional to back up. Only assumptions of partial evidence. It would be one thing if it was outright stated that bleach changed can move at the speed of light or perform feats at the speed of light but their aren’t. In fact the only time in bleach media were was ever implied to move at light speed was Hikone and he was basically a god-teir character who rivaled, Ichigo and Aizen himself in might and being a soul king candidate. With none of the other much weaker characters who going by scaling should be above light speed. Being able to react to him.
@@guardrailavender expect that in bleach fighting speed and travel speed or more or less the same in fact one of the ways bleach shows how fast a character is by showing them covering a massive amount of distance in a short amount of time and this has always been rather consistent within the series itself.
@@guardrailavender Yamamoto arrving in the old city long before shunsei and Jushiro even when they both had a head start. Stark kidnapping Orhime and immediately taking her to Aizen’s thrown room before ichigo or kenpach could attack him. Ichigo traveling from the royal palace to the court of pure souls in less then half day by shunpo. When usually it takes around a week and later instantly travels a massive distance and blitz the femsternriters to rescue kenpachi. Byukuya using shunpo to move from an high up building to right behind renji’s back.
I will say that attacks with "Light" in their name like "Rain of Light" shouldn't be taken literally. I'm not saying Licht Regen isn't light speed, but I'm saying that having light in the name can just be thematic and not literal. Just like how most light magic in other anime or media isn't light speed, but just themed around the element light.
I think the problem is is that even though ceros are called light we don’t know the different properties that it has because of it being non-physical or spiritual
This isn’t even including the most obvious one. Espada number 9 ( not spelling that name lol) dodges light from a window before it hits the ground and is fighting on even or slightly behind rukia in speed. Rukia is not a speedster. A lot of characters are faster than her. You can make a compelling case every or almost every vice captain is light speed from that alone. Gin convois perhaps the only outlier in the series in this regard and can be clearly explained by authors not knowing how fast things are or being internally inconsistent. Like Kakashi being able to move at light speed at 12 but grown itachi being scared of a lightning bolt ( which may be light speed that’s besides the point databooks aside). When scaling it makes more sense to take the more consistent interpretation of the story. Bleach characters are sealed when they enter the living world to prevent collapse, they frequently dodge energy beams and flash around light and make after images. They wield the power of the sun and meteor destroying energy in tiny frames. Being lightspeed is far more consistent for these supernatural creatures.
Why thou, uryu literally dodges light at the start of the arc, not like he dodged a light based attack, he moved so fast that he left his shadow behind.
@@Thatfan864 because he moves like 10 metres in the time it takes the light to cover half his shadow. He literally moved several times faster than light.
3:00 they begin moving before the negacion is fired. They didn’t react to it. Yoruichi reacted to Aizen and yelled for the others to get back before the Negacion is even fired.
When ichigo lwft the royal palace ichibei said the quincies invaded over 3 hours ago. That can't possible if these characters are light speed. On top of them talking mid fight.
@@JakeBosh15 depends on the anime and bleach is not one of them everything happens too slow everything battle would be a second long but it's not and the background is moving at normal speed
@@pc_115 that's what I'm saying a lot of action animes are like this Naruto Dragon Ball Beyblade Almost any isekai with OP characters Every other anime with a demon lord as the mc Gurenn lagann Saint seiya Off the top of my head the only one to do lightspeed somewhat right is Shinra from Fire Force
I don't see any reason why gins speed wouldn't still be in affect here. He lied to aizen not ichigo as the data books corroborate what gin was saying about his bankai as true in addition to his buto, it's also referred to as "faster than the speed of sound" in a part of the story when characters are presumably mftl. There's also canidice lighting arrows being "far slower than actual lightning bolts" the fact is, it's common for light based attacks in fiction to not have to be light speed and this seems to be a theme everyone agrees on when it comes to other anime except bleach for some reason.
Thanks for making this video about me bro I’m tired of being called lightning speed
This video is evidence that bleach haters all use the same BS to downplay bleach
Buddy sorry to break it too you. But nearly every verse besides Dragonball, opm, and fate gets downplayed.
Like literally boundless and outervesal characters get downplayed to universal, multiversal, and hyper versal. People in 2024 still think naruto isn't planetary despite the fact he's actually far higher than that. Bleach isn't special nor is it the most downplayed
But no verse get downplay as bleach.
The verse caps at Low multiversal. But downplayed to Planetery
Some goons say Verse is island at best 😂
@@Ruler_calamity_477s people literally say naruto caps at contential despite the fact momoshiki literally destroyed a solar system and a base naruto less than 50% in the manga was doing him in. The debate on if he's still planetary still happens, this just shows that people don't actually read and would rather downplay people just because they don't show those. Like Dragonball, opm and many new gen overpowered anime verse's
@@Swagjutsusolosfiction Fr
The verse is Solar system Canon wise.
And Shibai could be Uni too
@@SwagjutsusolosfictionMomoshiki got clapped by a shit shized Rasengan.
The proper way to debunk the Gin stuff is to say that the “speed of a clap” can refer to the sound of the clap or to the motion of the person’s hands as they clap, and part of the databook outright confirms the latter interpretation.
You’ll see some translations where Gin asks Ichigo, “Did you hear that?” which implies sound, but if you look at the raws that’s not what he said, it was more so, “Did you catch that?”, which doesn’t necessarily imply sound, and, again, the databooks confirm this.
Gin wasn’t comparing the speed of his zanpakuto to sound, he was comparing it to the speed of his hands while he was clapping.
dang, Gin should clap Rangiku FR 😢
The funny thing is you don't need to debunk it. Gin already did that for you when he revealed he lied.
@@corruptangel6793 True, but you still see people going “nah they still can’t be FTL or whatever, Ichigo thought Mach 500 was impressive even if Gin lied”, and this completely takes care of that bs
@@guardrailavender To them, I would simply say Ichigo hasn't been measuring himself. His only reference for speed would be his opponents. So, him being shocked (whether from how fast or slow he considered that number to be) is itself meaningless.
@@corruptangel6793 Yeah that's been the counter for a while now, but I still much prefer my method because at that point it doesn't matter how you interpret anything because "mach 500" isn't even in the picture in the first place, it's just an unquantifiable speed. It's pretty much a slam dunk counter argument that addresses everything at the same time.
funnily enough the mach 500 gin is just a mistranslation and has been for like one and a half decades, he refers to the clap of his hand, and his bankai being 500x that speed, not the sound of the clap
This. Everyone needs to read and understand this
and he lied anyway
Can’t believe that a mistranslation by viz ruined nearly a decade of speed scaling for bleach, that sucks lol
Fodder lieutenants at the beginning of the show were able to dodge a purely light-based attack and there are characters that are 1000x times faster than those characters. You really don't need to look any deeper than that...
I enjoyed this.
Great analysis 👍
Also Gins clap when looked at the kanji it’s almost like it’s saying it’s faster than the clap not the sound + shunsui can dodge lillie barous shots that ignore distance and just hit
Which would be by definition at least low infinite to maybe inaccessible speed as he’s literally condensing the X axis to a non point therefore that’s breaking the formula as there’s nothing in the distance to travel in between as the in between is not there
The problem with using descriptives is that the components making up the power are not necessarily photons or their equivalent.
Ceros, for example, are explained to be beams of dense spiritual pressure in the first databook. Beams of spiritual light is simply describing the attack, not it's traits or makeup. This is reinforced by Ichigo's explanation to Byakuya that his Getsuga Tenshou is spiritual pressure that's been poured into his Zanpakuto, compressed and magnified, then released as en energy blast. "Flash" is a description. I could described fireworks or sparks as flashes, bursts of light, etc. That doesn't make them lightspeed.
The neggeccion is the same. It's appearence is that of light, but is actually a spacial technique that separates the space inside from outside.
Cero are literally straight beam of light that are inhanced by the users Ryriouku saying they arent light is out right stupid or light speed is stupid . They arent described as being condensed Sp at all their out right stated to be light that has sp poured into it
Also why wouldnt they be photons We literally know that All mater on the physical world is the same as all mater in the spiritual world aside from the fact thier either made of Keishi or reishi respectivly . Ceros are also never stated to ge condensed reishi thier stated to be beam with spiritual light that have Reriyouku in them (whoever you spell that word) so not only are they the speed of light they can be faster then the the speed of light thanks to them being enhanced by the wielders Ryriouku similar to how Toshiros ice is stronger then natural ice ,the basis of your argument was stupid from the get go since its outright stated that this was the case also funny how this argument is never used for any else either then light based attacks in bleach . Yall also don't do this stupid shit with naruto and the light fang attack since thats made of charkra . Negacion also is a beam of light that just has the effect of seperating the inside space from the outside space once it connects with its target
I mean first there are other feats like Uryu outspeeding his own shadow in SS or Hollow Kain, whose name I can't spell, running from light.
But also do you think Kubo is a moron? He uses the term "light" consistently for a reason. If he meant things like light he'd say that.
@@nahte123456 Of course, there are other feats. I'm only talking about the reliability of visual descriptions, not whether or not the characters are LS.
As I said, just because something has the form/appearance of light does not necessarily mean it is lightspeed. Kubo gave appropriate names and descriptions. What else could you call the neggeccion, for example, but light? However, we also know it is a construct that isolates space. It is not made of photons or the reishi equivalent, nor is it ever stated to move at the speed of light.
@@corruptangel6793 Except neggeccion isn't "light" on it's own. It's gold and reality warping, that'd be like calling a blowtorch "light" because it's bright and hot. Not making a light, but being light.
What about the ninth Espada and his weaknesses
Might you try making Kenpachi vs Kaido?
It's light speed and bleach characters are faster than light.
Elite Sternritters & Kirinji
Name of the song at the end of the video please
Check description
@@DiegosBloodspray wats that ??
Look at the description of the video where it says BGM
@@DiegosBloodspray my bad, i got it. Thanks 👍
Who do you think wins between EOS ichigo vs EOS aizen?
Ichigo is stronger but has no counter to Kyoka
Aizen would slaughter that man. Ichigo’s got higher stats, but he can’t deal with Aizen’s regeneration. Like, imagine how their fight went originally, except this time Urahara isn’t there to bail ichigo out. That’s how it would happen.
@@DiegosBloodspray He actually kinda does
@@passingshadow2392 Well Aizen never showed it to Ichigo
@@guardrailavender Aizen is faster
Lily barro 😂
I LIKE this video
7:51 this is an instance of aim dodging as she watches other quincy get hit. This moment is similar to how average people avoid gun fire. This would not mean their speed is on par with a bullet.
Because you see average people avoiding gun fire point blank in your neighborhood?
@@chriscolombie4135 lilltoto didn’t dodge the aweshwelen point blank. This is also discounting the fact the light based quincy attacks don’t actually have a confirmed speed anyway. So what ever the Aweshwelen’s speed is Lillitoto does not scale to it.
@@onesmart229 auswhalen traveled from palace to seireitei instantly, which is 10 billion km, that's far faster than light
@@roywempor8395 where is the confirmed distance from the palace to the seritete? It is never stated in the manga, anime, novels, or databook. See the issue is the video is claiming it’s light speed because it is light based but now you are claiming it’s faster with no evidence. For all you know it could be much slower. This is why concrete information is important.
@@onesmart229
bleach was light speed in the first arc with uryu outrunning his shadow, this Ichigo is a billion times stronger than that uryu.
it took Ichigo 9.15 hours to travel between the palace and the seireitei.
9 hours 15 minutes is 33300 seconds.
The speed of light in a vacuum is 3*(108) metres per second.
Distance = speed * time
Plugging in you get 9.99 * 1012 metres. Which is 9.99 billion kilometres or around 6.2 billion miles.
My Unc is famous😭
My issue with speed feats is that the speed of light is just too fast. Anyone who can move even a fraction of the speed of light would utterly annihilate anyone who can’t, there is no match, no fight. It’s fast enough that you could go around the world several times in a second.
That’s fine, but there’s always inconsistencies- people who are ‘light speed’ taking time to travel somewhere on the planet is just not possible unless you are slowing everything down by factors of millions.
that's why most anime move at the speed of plot.
@@bobowon5450 It doesnt help that most writers probaly didnt think about scaling, they just thought it would be cool to have the characters avoid a laser.
@@swattofficer6624 also doesn't help that if a character sees a hollow charging up a cero, puts up their sword in preparation for the blast, and then the cero launches seconds later, they will take that to mean that the character in question is clearly light speed.
even if the cero was the speed of light, that wouldn't entirely mean blocking it makes you light speed considering there is almost always a gesture beforehand
@@bobowon5450 Yeah, like if someone aims a gun at you and it shoots a laser, if you dodge the shot you didnt necessarily dodge the actual laser, you could have moved as you saw, you know, a gun being raised towards you.
But powerscalers dont care about that
honestly the most consistent way to scale bleach speed is that things move at the speed of plot.
The Gin debunk doesn't work
Him saying that it doesn't extend as far and as fast if anything means that he is SLOWER than he said to aizen not faster and it was said that he lied to aizen not Ichigo.
This lie doesn't even work because if Ichigo was light speed so early on he not only wouldn't be intimidated but would immediately know that Gin was lying because he barely reacted to it lol (it would be slower than a snails pace in comparison to him)
The proper way to debunk it is to say that the “speed of a clap” can refer to the sound of the clap or to the motion of the person’s hands as they clap, and part of the databook outright confirms the latter interpretation.
You’ll see some translations where Gin asks Ichigo, “Did you hear that?” which implies sound, but if you look at the raws that’s not what he said, it was more so, “Did you catch that?”, which doesn’t necessarily imply sound, and, again, the databooks confirm this.
Gin wasn’t comparing the speed of his zanpakuto to sound, he was comparing it to the speed of his hands while he was clapping.
"as far/fast" are ambiguous statements thou, sure they can mean a large measurement of distance/speed but they can also be used as a substitute for them, "how far/fast". So saying that it specifically means it doesn't reach the things he said is an assumption. Not only that why would he make his zanpaktou seem more impressive when his goal is to surprise attack Aizen with it.
Plus why would Ichigo know how fast he's moving when he's literally just a dude with know education in what he's doing.
@@bungusbongus the goel is to hide his actual ability from aizen (cell destroying poison thing) there's no actual proof of him lying to Ichigo
He lied to aizen and we don't even know what he told aizen in the first place.
Ichigo will absolutely know something is wrong when it will take him an hours to actually hear the sounds of the clap and it's a completely unnecessary risk for Gin to do that
It doesn't matter. He revealed himself to he an unreliable narrator. Anything he says is no longer usable.
@@corruptangel6793 the beliefes and reactions to his words alone are enough to prove a point
Gin said his bankai isnt AS FAST as he said, implying the mach 500 was a wanked value, and characters at that point weren't obviusly light speed
Agreed I argued this before apparently ichigo should be much faster than light speed at this point yet couldn't doge Gins attacks which is around 2000 times slower than light.
@@roryelliott8689why do you think gin bankai is only the speed of sound
@kidgoku3763 I can't say for sure we know anime contradicts feats all the time but the databook supposedly states 500x the speed of sound many people have confirmed this.
@@roryelliott8689 which data book are you talking about
Databook 3 Unmasked
Holy fuck these arguments are bad.
Insisting that "beam" means "beam of light"... Instead of beam being used as a *shape*, like a steel beam.
Something being referred to as made of "spiritual light" instantly meaning that it is BOTH made of the Reishi equivalent to photons, and is also moving at the speed of light. When it is supposed to be a spiritual beam weapon - like the Kamehameha - and something being made of light gives no description or meaning to anything else just on its own - like hard light in many sci-fi settings,or green lantern hard light constructs.
That EITHER of these arguments is treated at all seriously tells me everything I ever need to know about your level of reading comprehension, media literacy, and about you as a creator.
You should try these arguments on a VS forum to get even the lightest idea of how horrifically bad these arguments are.
2:08 being made of light does not give a speed as light based abilities can have varying properties.
Good thing uryu blitzed his shadow as early as ss and aarenairo the slowest and weakest espada dodges sunlight in the hueco mundo arc 🙏🙏
@@Cringelord06 Rock Lee blitzed his shadow in the chuin exam. Aaroniero moved as the rocks were falling. He did not avoid the light in the way you trying to say.
@@onesmart229 idk why you brought rock Lee into this this isn’t a vs battles video so that made no sense whatsoever I never even said anything about Naruto verse not being light speed goofy and yes aareiero does point out after he dodges the sunlight that light is one of his weaknessses why would he dodge rocks then say he’s weak to sunlight that would make very much sense 🤔
@@Cringelord06 to show an example. Demonstrating it takes more than that to actually establish speed scaling. If the example is that difficult to understand I can’t help you. Aaroniero avoided the light by moving as the rocks were falling, before the hole was complete. He’s weak to light like a vampire. A common trope for vamps is avoiding light when blinds open. This doesn’t establish light speed.
@@onesmart229 that makes sense I just re watched the fight in the anime and he doesn’t even dodge the light just jumps out of it mb mb 😭
lmao this has to be ragebait
In all honesty I belive bleach charaters are light speed…but only for the god-teirs.
The thing about power scalers is that a lot them take statements especially from data books literally instead of figuratively, while also ignoring many contructions in the manga in the of these charaters are light speed. Considering many of them are faster then others, are unable to cross much larger distances in an instant.
Of course there are powersclaers that dismiss these arguments by saying that it is fiction…but that argument fails because they don’t use hard evidence in said fictional to back up. Only assumptions of partial evidence.
It would be one thing if it was outright stated that bleach changed can move at the speed of light or perform feats at the speed of light but their aren’t. In fact the only time in bleach media were was ever implied to move at light speed was Hikone and he was basically a god-teir character who rivaled, Ichigo and Aizen himself in might and being a soul king candidate. With none of the other much weaker characters who going by scaling should be above light speed. Being able to react to him.
Not being able to cross large distances quickly isn’t really a debunk by the way, travel speed and reaction/combat speed are treated separately.
@@guardrailavender expect that in bleach fighting speed and travel speed or more or less the same in fact one of the ways bleach shows how fast a character is by showing them covering a massive amount of distance in a short amount of time and this has always been rather consistent within the series itself.
@@soulman9018 For example?
@@guardrailavender Yamamoto arrving in the old city long before shunsei and Jushiro even when they both had a head start. Stark kidnapping Orhime and immediately taking her to Aizen’s thrown room before ichigo or kenpach could attack him. Ichigo traveling from the royal palace to the court of pure souls in less then half day by shunpo. When usually it takes around a week and later instantly travels a massive distance and blitz the femsternriters to rescue kenpachi. Byukuya using shunpo to move from an high up building to right behind renji’s back.
@@soulman9018 Ok, cool. Those are all travel speed feats, not applicable to combat, where characters react to light early in the series.
I will say that attacks with "Light" in their name like "Rain of Light" shouldn't be taken literally. I'm not saying Licht Regen isn't light speed, but I'm saying that having light in the name can just be thematic and not literal. Just like how most light magic in other anime or media isn't light speed, but just themed around the element light.
I think the problem is is that even though ceros are called light we don’t know the different properties that it has because of it being non-physical or spiritual
Pls make a video about Naruto character that can counter Aizen kyoka suigetsu
I don't think anyone from Naruto can counter kyoka suihetsu
And even if someone has a slight chance of countering the ks aizen can beat them with is hogyoku and hados or kidos
@@omkarpatil5922 you got a good point 👍
This isn’t even including the most obvious one. Espada number 9 ( not spelling that name lol) dodges light from a window before it hits the ground and is fighting on even or slightly behind rukia in speed. Rukia is not a speedster. A lot of characters are faster than her. You can make a compelling case every or almost every vice captain is light speed from that alone.
Gin convois perhaps the only outlier in the series in this regard and can be clearly explained by authors not knowing how fast things are or being internally inconsistent. Like Kakashi being able to move at light speed at 12 but grown itachi being scared of a lightning bolt ( which may be light speed that’s besides the point databooks aside). When scaling it makes more sense to take the more consistent interpretation of the story. Bleach characters are sealed when they enter the living world to prevent collapse, they frequently dodge energy beams and flash around light and make after images. They wield the power of the sun and meteor destroying energy in tiny frames. Being lightspeed is far more consistent for these supernatural creatures.
I definitely agree bleach is light speed but the soul society arc light speed argument is what I don’t agree on ngl
Why thou, uryu literally dodges light at the start of the arc, not like he dodged a light based attack, he moved so fast that he left his shadow behind.
@@bungusbongus that’s just a relativistic feat at best I don’t know how people back it at light speed or even faster than light
@@Thatfan864 because he moves like 10 metres in the time it takes the light to cover half his shadow. He literally moved several times faster than light.
@@bungusbongusthis is a great counter argument ngl
@@Thatfan864 No, it's called an afterimage and is what happens when something moves faster than light.
3:00 they begin moving before the negacion is fired. They didn’t react to it. Yoruichi reacted to Aizen and yelled for the others to get back before the Negacion is even fired.
Wrong They dodged right about when it was about to hit not before especially rangiku since she was holding onto Gin at the time
When ichigo lwft the royal palace ichibei said the quincies invaded over 3 hours ago. That can't possible if these characters are light speed. On top of them talking mid fight.
That's every anime bro
@@JakeBosh15 not every anime
@@pc_115 most action anime with some form of lightspeed scaling do have this problem.
@@JakeBosh15 depends on the anime and bleach is not one of them everything happens too slow everything battle would be a second long but it's not and the background is moving at normal speed
@@pc_115 that's what I'm saying a lot of action animes are like this
Naruto
Dragon Ball
Beyblade
Almost any isekai with OP characters
Every other anime with a demon lord as the mc
Gurenn lagann
Saint seiya
Off the top of my head the only one to do lightspeed somewhat right is Shinra from Fire Force
I don't see any reason why gins speed wouldn't still be in affect here.
He lied to aizen not ichigo as the data books corroborate what gin was saying about his bankai as true in addition to his buto, it's also referred to as "faster than the speed of sound" in a part of the story when characters are presumably mftl.
There's also canidice lighting arrows being "far slower than actual lightning bolts" the fact is, it's common for light based attacks in fiction to not have to be light speed and this seems to be a theme everyone agrees on when it comes to other anime except bleach for some reason.