Is Crusader Pay to Win? | Darkest Dungeon 2
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- Опубліковано 31 тра 2024
- Quick video dissecting the 2 heroes people are making a lot of comparisons to, as well as covering the recent MAA nerfs. Let me know what you think below :)
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Crusader isn't even close to being as good as shieldbreaker was in the first game. Shieldbreaker dlc was the closest Darkest Dungeon franchise ever got to pay to win imo.
True
I thought flag was at least before his nerf
Shildbreaker was 100% not broken at all. most of the time a hellion would fit in the team better, since she can stun and do more damage.
Agreed, shieldbreaker was ridiculously powerful
One good thing about the crusader in DD1 is that they have bonus damage to unholy creatures.
You know who is really power crept by crusader? Vestal, she got worse burn, worse heal, worse stress heal, worse tanking, 0 damage and 2 cool unique buffs.
So there is a big choice: pick versatile tank/support or 2 buffs on legs. Poor vestal...
Or? If anything, Crusader makes Vestal MORE viable because she's a burn character, making her a good combination with aggressor crusader.
If they made the paths change skills instead of buffing and debuffing certain powers they have, it would make it more balanced.
Agree. They should have gone after the Bulwark/Vanguard +% dmg instead of the base skills
@@0rcd0c he's talking about a full rework of the paths something we will likely se over the corse of the year but just nerfing the stats on paths would not work in man at arms case because all that paths are crazy strong because his base kit is crazy strong
@@Roberta-yf4ge I know that he meant that and I'm totally for it. +/- to stats are kinda boring compared to changes how the skills work. MAA base kit is absolutely fine. His damage was below average at base so there honestly wasn't any issue with that. If the heal on Crush Combo was too much they could have addressed that instead.
Good video. Gotta say, the idea that MAA's nerfs served to somehow lock a tank behind the paywall never crossed my mind, and it does sound a bit silly. Definitely reasonable take here.
‘WHAT!?? MY VANGUARD CRUSH+ ONLY DOES 7-11 NOW? SMH, STUPID PAY TO WIN BALANCING!’
All the Man at Arms nerf did was slow him down a bit. Now if you want him to have armor and riposte, it takes you two turns not one. I was a little annoyed by this at first. But when you consider that, even Highwayman needs a turn to set up usually. I really don't think this change was that unreasonable. Supposedly he got is damage nerfed too? I haven't noticed. He does pretty good for a dedicated tank.
his turn economy sucks now using riposte, he's just worse than flagg outside of bulwark.
I feel as though this would be fixed if they didnt just nerf or buff MAA but instead tweak his paths as they did Graverobber to better fit the roles they were designed for
The GR "rework" only made the path passives affect the base dmg of the skills (multiplicatively with other dmg sources instead of additive like for other paths). That just equated to a minor buff to her, nothing else changed. And the overview became vastly more complicated.
Yeah, Grave Robber has not changed from the old path system in practice; it's still just +DMG here, -DMG there for the most part.
@@dylanboczar999 It didnt change much I'll grant you that but it at least fit the builds a bit more, and it gives them an opportunity to revisit skills that they might want to tweak
Maybe the taunt only shows up for a certain path and normal MAA just gets the block and riposte, for example
They didn’t fix Grave Robber’s paths, they said they were going to put her paths under the new system and all they did was change the format. They didn’t actually turn them into good paths. Still super salty about that and I really hope they fix all the pre-Vestal characters’ paths soon, every characters’ paths from Vestal on have been bangers and I’d like to actually have interesting paths for everyone else too.
I still think its weird how some of the characters have vague descriptions for paths that change abilities, and then others still have the old completely different buff system.
I'd rather this than for them to have continued using the old path system for the last 4 characters
I'd rather vague descriptions if the ability card is actually accurate. Having to remember something like MAA's bolster removing tokens on himself on one of his paths, or Grapeshot giving strength on Sharpshot.
@@josh___somethingto be fair it's not changing every now and then, you just have to learn the changement between path 1 single time and done, it's just game knowledge.
@@Brynnu I'm not remembering the weird little antiquated bolster ability cause they made it when bolster HAD that the token cleanse on someone else as a part of the base ability. Now that they removed it, the little change doesn't even FIT the ability as it is now, and nothing on the ability even clues you into it.
It's a niche effect on ONE ability that used to be (but no longer is) thematically tied to it. The amount of times its impact would be felt had I remembered it would not outnumber the times remembering Pass-Healing exists when its relevant or something similar that would occupy that point in the mental stack.
I think removing taunt from retribution takes away a little from the skill identity since in DD1 he marked himself but he didn't get prot so the block had to go.
It might but I felt maa was the guard tank. The other 3 to 5 tanks have taunt too.
I'd say, MAA is not turbo broken so much as he is a very good all-rounder, other classes are very good at one thing, while he is good at many things and really good at one thing too. Graverobber and Run-away are good on their own niches but flat out bad outside specific compositions. I think they should give them something, either make the things they are good at more common or give them enough utility to justify using them over other characters. Also buff leper, he might hit like a truck but he does not have enough damage to justify that if he is knocked back he's out of the game until he gets to rank 1/2 again, Blindness is way too punishing for his damage to shine through it.
the best thing about leper is that you dont need to (want to) spend mastery on him. chops damage floor doesnt increase, destealthing with intimidate is worthless, solemnity already heals 2 stress even uninjured so reflection is too slow to bother, and bash wont reliably set up combo anyway since he starts with blind. basically the only things worth upgrading are withstand and solemnity so he can be a better meatshield but hes good enough at that you can still wait till region 3 or the mountain.
making his upgrades better like revenge clearing blind instead of weak or intimidate granting haste but having a cool down so he can clear 1 blind with it and swing immediately after next turn would go along way to improving the feel of his power curve.
Leper is full of problems if you look at his damage, his damage spread is too big to be usable.
Blindness is awful but his damage spread starts at 6 damage, you do all the work of getting rid of blindness or getting a resist hoping for a big hit and he pulls those paltry 6 damage hits, so you would also need to give him crit for his damage to be good in a consistent manner.
You need to take into account that he can only hit rank 1-2 hard so there are multiple enemies and bosses where his damage will be 1-3, and the worst part is that rank 1-2 usually have block limiting even more his usefulness.
I still hope they rework Repartee into a "Gives one dodge and 2 taunt tokens when not in stealth, gives 3 dodge and 2 taunt tokens in Stealth". It would give Grave Robber her dodge-tank niche back. Turn 1 Absinthe to gain dodge, turn 2 Repartee for taunt. Dead of Night for corpse clearing, Glint in the Dark for executing, Pick to the Face for picking away Block tokens.
Still waiting on the neglected hound master to finally appear in DD2. One of the very few base characters that haven't made an appearance yet in this game. There's already dog sprites, it would be so fun to have him back! Hopefully in the next dlc, fingers crossed.
Maa is still on top with his versatility and ease of use. Retribution gives him good reach and token clearing potential that crusader doesn’t really have unless you sacrifice his tanking ability by putting him in the back
Crus can remove strength and crit with stunning blow, idk what are you talking about
@@sauce5097 Even then, below is miles better than stunning blow, you can hit everyone so you remove a lot of dodge tokens, helps a lot with the dreaming general as well.
RH needs to update all of the old paths to put it in line with the current path system. One idea for retribution would it be on seargent, for example it gives 2x riposte and 2x taunt, and in vanguard it gives only 3 riposte tokens on upgrade with the dmg buff, and since bulwark is supose to be the shield path, give it 2x riposte and 2x block.
The current path system is such a great tool to balance very strong and problematic skills like take aim, as well as underwelming skills that could pop off with certain paths
I don't mind saying it but Man-At-Arms was one if not thee OP character in DD2. He simply could work with any team line up with virtually zero cons.
Alchemist was and still is as busted as ever, you can run her in every comp as well. No nerfs to her. MAA was actually fine at base. He needed adjustments to his paths, not the base skills.
Ashamed of this, before I discovered Shuff, I thought MAA was the worst character and that Jester's Encore was 100% useless.
How could MAA be the worst character XDDDDD
Bruhh how encore is literally the best move in the game. It has the most potential as it gives another turn to anyone.
Ig we all start somewhere kudos to you.
@@thefearturkey6944 I too underestimated how strong it is to give another character 2 rounds because of how insane the combos can get, but there's no way to think MAA is bad
@@thefearturkey6944 I mean, my original thought was you spend 1 turn and take debuffs to gain 1 turn. That isn’t a good trade on paper. But yeah I definitely I rely discovered just how much you can do with encore.
Loved this video Mr Shuff! I think everything you said is very true, and honestly, one thing I noticed about Crusader is that he's got 40 health (significantly lower than MAA and Leper), and he can only get block tokens (not block +), so he's not even close to MAA's tankiness.
MAA's damage nerf was fine, I remember how I had librarian kills literally because the majority of the damage was vanguard MAA happily riposting him to death. I think it was ridiculous that MAA was this unkillable tank that also out DPS most heroes (the whole free action to do ginormous damage was absurd)
I'm surprised people would say that about red hook, if anything, I'd be more than happy to buy the DLC even if it was more expensive, I think they deserve it for their work.
Hey Shuffle!! ever tried the new usual suspects? (Crusader, HWM, Vestal and PD)
The party is just so f*ing great, it can steamroll most content, so far only the lungs gave me some trouble (hitting rank 4 for big damage is not this composition's forte), but the party is so durable that it rarely even matters.
There's also so pretty ok burn synergy with Vestal and PD burning (Hwm can also burn with the help of items/ trinkets) for crusader to do some dmg
I'll have a vid on it tomorrow :)
Conceptually speaking MAA works since it is "the dude tempered by thousands battles" so it has an answer to everything.
I am actually fine with that idea and the role he covers, I don't think it is unbalanced on that aspect.
My problem is the fact that he is practically impenetrable, too much ease on demolishing the enemy damage potential and definitely to much action economy, which is ironic considering he has the most setup bullshit moove in the entire roster, which is c.abbandon.
Leper has more row potential than him with respect to damage negation, but he has nowhere near the same action economy and versatility.
Although I think he needs a rework that needs to come in the form of the new path system
Leper is pretty good mitigating damage, his damage output and utility is what kills him.
4:46
i would say pd alchemist is the best charecter maybe even before maa nerf then jester then now maa then flag
all tho i can see an argument that jester is less powerful than maa
Yup. It took the community almost half a year to realize how freaking busted dots became after RH pushed the patch that allowed trinkets and combat items to work off each other and with memories and paths. For a long time people wrongly assumed (including Shuff) direct dmg > dot dmg until they've tested it and finally realized.
It's the same with MAA and the actually busted Alchemist. People just repeat after their leader that "MAA op! needs nerf". When in reality he isn't nearly as broken as Alchemist. Sure Vanguard Crush dmg was above average but that could have been addressed in a different manner.
@@0rcd0cmain issue with DoT in the game is that it starts with the same numbers as direct damage in the first round. If the direct damage dealt more in the first round than the DoT, and the DoT surpassed the direct damage in the 2nd or 3rd rounds, it wouldn't be a big problem. That's why there's no reason not to choose plague doctor. It's odd for one character to deal more damage than others in the first round and have that damage consistently increase each round. Another solution could be making DoT effects harder to apply, possibly requiring more reliant on combos to stick.
@@Not_a_Doctor_ Certainly true for Alchemist Noxious Blast. The base version is actually balanced and requires 2-3 turns. I'd say that the issue is again not at base level but rather in the synergies. It's The Alchemist/Arsonist paths working together with trinkets, favorite foy and combat items. All of that combined creates absurd numbers. Dot Pierce is important because nobody likes bad rng in an rpg but passives on a path are obviously very strong whereas for everyone else it's hoping to get the dot pierce trinket. There needs to be some middle ground and there needs to be some tweaking on how trinkets, favorite toy, combat items as well.
buff crush moment??!?!!??!??!?!
Crush could hit for 8-11 into rank 3 on vanguard. That was retarded.
I love all your dd2 videos. I was never able to beat dd1 but i have completed TWO grand slams in dd2 in part thanks to your videos and deep explanations! I do feel the sequel is a lot more fair and balanced and player friendly than the original while still being challenging and unforgiving. I play with the help torch and i think the various torches were great additions
Congrats on the slams!
@@ShuffleFMpraise from Caesar himself 😊 next goal is steam achievement where they all hate each other when entering the mountain
I feel you have a strange opinion. Almost all of the RNG in the first game (except a rare string of enemy crits) could be mitigated by strategy, team building, and game knowledge.
In 2 there are numerous elements that are just pure roll of the dice that cannot be counter played. 2 is generally a bit easier baseline, but significantly less "fair" as RNG can spike the difficulty of the run straight to unwinnable. Whether that's to the player's enjoyment or not is up to them.
Man at arms nero was correct, but it is a big thing for him, now retribution without block is not the best move, you have to mix it up with stand fast, which makes bulwark his best path right now imo, also his damage nerf makes vanguard slithly worse so... bulwark!
Hi Shuff..thanks for the analysis..do you think there's gonna be more DLC?
Yep! No idea what or when.
There was no reason for delaying reynauld this long other than selling him as dlc
They weren't going to put him in the game originally. The fans wanted it so they made it happen.
When the fans demand a character for months on end they'll make him :O crazy thought I know
So you actually believe they just happened to make and release reynauld around the time of a first dlc that included nothing but a character and boss related to reynauld? they had this planned, the dlc would be minor had they not waited on reynauld for it@@ComradeMaryFromMars
@@RosemaryCemetery I believe they looked at what people wanted the most which is crusader and a new character gave us both and made a basic little story for him because of the demand for him was so high
I'm NGL I first saw crusader at his base and got his paths, and I'm like "man this guy feels weak as fuck for who i thought he'd be" XD
Lance is insane on a dance team, 6-9 plus dot basically obliterates the backline.
i feel that we need more burn characters. the real bur character is runaway. Cursader is pseudo burn. But i really wanted another burn focused character
I only came back to DD2 after release because they added back my boy. As a practically new player MaR feels great to me. I love putting him up from with the Bulwark path.
Ehy shuff! Would you he interested in doing an achievement guide for binding blade? I think it wuold be fun to watch and very useful sinceramente there are a couple of new hidden achievement and i have no clue what they could be!
The only thing I noticed while playing Crusader was how bad Vestal is.
The hero balance of this game is really interesting because they try to translate old abilities to a new game. Tanks are just a much bigger part of this game than dd1 (granted dd1 failed tanks really badly, the whole mark tank thing only effect like 10% of enemies if that).
In DD2 there's alot of ways to mitigate damage with weakens blinds blocks and such but not having strictly profitable stun actions aswell as enemies front loading their defense via tokens rather than native prot/dodge means fights are longer before reaching the basically over phase making having a big damage sponge that profit off the %maxHP heals to buy that time really useful.
MAA is a mediocre to bad hero in dd1, his stun was ok but mostly inferior to BHs and his damage + reach was worse than BHs to boot. he bullies a couple boss fights but that and bellow are kinda all hes got going for him since the guard stuff just wasn't necessary with all the stuns. But then he comes to dd2 where his strengths actually are valuable and hes super broken. kinda funny since dd2 is one of the missions where MAAs shined in dd1.
front rank banneret is very good. As cool as backline zealous is you dont need to use it since nothing else gets worse. Banneret's tenacity is just such a good button, 4 block tokens for 1 action is super-efficient so cycling it with taunt and heals keeps everyone really healthy. It adds something to a tank the others dont have which is cleave protection since cleaves go right through taunt and bypass guard (technically there's weaken but weaken goes away even if it misses and needs to check debuff res).
works really good with encore too since with mastery it gets rid of encores downside while starting the cooldown 1 turn faster, not that encore is short on synergies.
How is maa bad in dd1? He has tthe best camping skills by far, strong party buffs, bellow, guard and tons of protection.
In my mind, for both DD1 and DD2, Crusader's always been the "Fighter" archetype. Easy to just slap in but if you want to give him a solid identity in a team comp you're gonna need some creativity.
Bear in mind I think every tank/support in DD1 is viable if you know what the hell you're doing. In DD2 people get so caught up in viability and team comps that I think along the way people forgot that Crusader and Man-At-Arms can fill completely different niches, theyre both somewhat rank and role flexible to a certain extent.
what bothers me is bonnie is still labelled as front rank instead of any rank
Bought it to support the game company cause i love DD, and crusader is cooool af as a souls fan he is enjoyable to be in the party. Price is reasonable despite USD is expensive in my country.
Honestly, I find the P2W discussion kinda whack in this case. I mean sure, maybe Duelist and Crusader are better than the main cast, I haven't played them enough to judge, but what are they winning against?
I don't even know if Crusader can fight the warlord yet and the main cast could already bring DD2 to its knees in its hardest iteration if you play it well. What are we even paying to beat, that's my question, flagellant at least had a whole DLC dedicated to him where he was absolutely ridiculous.
so is crusader good or better or whats his best fucking class so many questions unanswerd
I have a full guide on it :)
the only thing that is kinda bothering me is the fact some enemis are pain to fight and some are way too ez and make the boring i was having fun with the dlc till my pd got twice crit hollow wesol and died
That's why I give her double hp buffs from memories, DOTs on her can kill her pretty fast so you need to be ready to use her DOT removal on her.
My bro man at arms had his knees capped
The title of this video is nice and juicy. Good stuff.
People forget how goated and op he was in first game. Could bring him anywhere, worked with everyone, had a way around every boss encounter and was 2nd tankiest character.
He is weaker than in first game lol.
saw that clickbait title
got baited
commenting angry wrong answers
comparing dd1 for no reason again
complain MAA good or bad
probably summary of most ppl
anyway hope that helped algorithm lmao
People comparing crusader to the power house that is man at arms, meanwhile leper has to deal with blind while crusader has more consistent damage in smite and has more utility.
Humpty Dumpty, aka the King and his men; MAA, Leper, Crusader, Jester.
I was there when Crush could hit rank 3. I remember. MaA is still just so strong
It still can
Said that you can play MAA and Crusader together with 2 squishes, but didn't say about The Wall😢
I never liked that team 😏
@@ShuffleFM The Wall is gonna fall, right up on your crew and crush them all
XD
Why are they adding characters before fixing the old ones?
They weighed the options and felt making new heroes is better at this moment. Judging by the response I'd say they were right.
Refreshes player base helps them make a fair bit of cash
@@ShuffleFM Seems short sighted in the long run but glad people are enjoying it.
@@ShuffleFM Give it a 3-4 weeks of time. Steam activity is still up but the average twitch views is already approaching the pre-DLC levels not even a week after the release. The issue with this DLC is that it didn't address any of the games core issues. So after playing for a while people will leave again when they realize there's no endgame content and no balance.
This video should be called, "Is Man-at-Arms bad now."
It almost was but I couldn't find a good maa pic fast enough lol
It pains me to say it, but MAA needed the nerf. Upgraded Retribution was pretty OP before the update and if you grab it on the first inn, you can spam it for the entire run or pair it with upgraded Indiscriminate Science for a really big instant heal.
If you wanted pay to win, go back to Crimson Court on release day and faceroll dungeons with a solo Flagellant.
They weakened the man-at-arms to give entry to the crusader, but the crusader is part of a paid dlc that if I don't buy now the man-at-arms is just weaker in general?
Point is he's barely even weaker at all. He's more in line with everyone else now. He was too strong.
The problem isn't that MAA is to strong is that the other character are to weak. They shouldn't have nerf him that hard they should have simply buff the other character so that they could be at his level and more attractive to play and try build. Even after the nerf he is arguably the best character in the game so it really show how insanely weak the rest are. It's a PVE game, no one will be mad if you give BUFFS redhook!
The problem is so much of the game is either built around his kit or he is around the game. Introducing mechanics that give the rest of the cast space to shine would help as well.
Agreed a lot of teams honestly feel worse off without him especially if its a team where you use any of his front rank "competition" hope they buff other heroes in the future.
Just be better.
@@Alpharius2479 Just use a solid frontliner like Hellion, Leper or Flag and a stress heal like Jester. If you are heavily relying on MAA to carry your team you probably aren't just experienced enough yet.
I am not sure about crusader but damn antagonize duelist is pay to win with pistol skill.
I love Templar honestly but he's still weaker Bulwark in most categories
I honestly think that crusader can get some buff, cuz for all the hype he is kind of underwhelming. (Or maybe it's just a skill issue)
He is really versatile tough and his damage is pretty good
I mean, if you try to compare him with Flag and M@a then yeah, kinda, but that's only because those two are exeptionally crazy good. Crusader is great, but great may underwhelm you if you're used to the top of the top y'know
He needs an HP buff tbh. That's about the only thing I think
I actually think he's pretty great, he has flexible positioning, damage, can fix his own positioning, can stress heal, and heal all at a good level He's legit a better support than Vestal and it's not even close.
Duelist on the other hand, I think that character is pretty trash and takes 3 turns before she can even start doing what other characters have already been doing in that time, oh and she's a character who wants to get hit for riposte but has less health than Jester, but maybe I'm just too smooth brained to use her.
@@jat4554 true but I find his damage and especially heal in banneret lacking, in aggresor his damage is op but in others... He is just lacking extra button
I mean.... maa needed a nerf, but he needed a nerf for too long and they happened to nerf him right now so it's kinda obvious that crusader is the reason maa got nerfed
I explained how they are 2 different heroes. Nerf doesn't mean it was for crusader if they both do different jobs well.
hes very op maa not even close to him time to delete maa
Power creep?
Crusader is mediocre at best.
You're high or using him for damage mostly he's damn good
Instead of trying to fix their characters they are releasing new content to try and ignore it, they need to update paths, they need to do several things to balance the game and are avoiding it for seemingly no reason. Realistically, it shouldn't be that difficult, if u take a new design direction with ur characters, make it consistent. I don't want to talk bad about Red Hook, but imo they aren't fixing things
They're a small studio. They aren't ignoring balance, as you can see by the changes they added with the dlc release. Adding 2 heroes was the right call as you can see by the fan reactions to the new heroes.
POG!
No
As much as i love the crusader, I'm having a hard time slotting him into my runs. This might be a skill issue, but the most success I've had is:
Aggressor crusader
Orphan runaway
Virtuoso jester
Sharpshot highwayman
Take the battle heal and cauterise for heals, inspiring tune for stress, and firestarter for ignite and self-heal.
Honestly I'd rather have MAA and berserker mommy (forgot name) as frontline and a the priest chick at the back for heals and buffs with consecrations.
I gotta say that all of that talk about Strategic Withdrawal and Guard being overpowered is only true if you still struggle with the game (and maybe Act 3). These 2 skills are highly defensive. Withdrawal only being good when mastered and on Deathsdoor which should be avoided at all costs. It's a lose less skill and you never want to bet on something that only shines when you are at a bring of losing your tank. If you play it right none of your characters should be at deathsdoor, especially not your tank and there should always be emergency heals ready on the faster heroes. Outside of act 3, defender is only used when you expect encounters to be lethal for a squishy hero like an Alchemist and only when the situation demands it. In most cases a taunt is doing a similar job like a guard. Guard by itself with block isn't that much of a problem, Vestal has it too and a stress heal on top and nobody ever said it's op - heck it's barely even used.
These 2 skills are basically there to help newer players to struggle less but they are rarely used when you have a fully unlocked account with masteries and a good understanding of the game. They are completely fine as they are.
Defender is one of the most busted skills in the game. It's the opposite, if you're still a noob then you don't see how good those two are and you wont use them as much
@@br0ck689 How so? When you are running a proper team with lots of dmg when are you going to use it? Fights are done in 2-3 rounds, bosses die in 2-4 rounds. Do you really need a purely defensive move when your fights are over that fast? It's great when you need it, but these situations are very rare.
And then again, Sanctuary could be considered even better and I've heard nobody ever say it's game breaking.
Idk, the fact that when you run Templar to essentially accomplish the same task as MAA I think that is the main issue… Regen is very strong in dd2 to ensure Crusader doesn’t die, plus the insta self heal for himself and another character is kinda nuts. Also his guard may not give block, but it does give him extra healing bonuses, so it’s not exactly the same as MAA, but it’s arguably accomplishing the same thing as MAA. That plus the convenient timing of nerfing MAA when adding another character that does the same thing he does feels like a scam…
no
Pay to lose
I would love to get Crusader. But a hoarder wont spawn. I'm glad I paid 10$ to suffer through more BS RNG.
Why does each run take so looong
why are the fights so long.
Sigh, time to send another party.
I jus think paying half price of the full game just for two playable characters is way too high.
No new regions, imo the game lacks content.
It's 25% of the games cost, or 33% if you get it on sale. Totally fine imo
I was prepared to have to pay $15 for it, was happy to see it was only $10. $10 is also not half of $40.
$5 bucks for a dlc character is usual standard so it's a pretty fair price imo
@@ShuffleFM Ok for the price but the content, between the dlc and the game, is lacking. Always the same regions and ennemis, no variety.
Compare what was new between this dlc and the Crimson court... Day and night. DD2 is simply lacking.