Faderfox EC4 Review // Compact MIDI control with digital labels
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- Опубліковано 23 лип 2024
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Here are a couple TRS A to B solutions:
#1 Buy a TRS A dongle, a TRS B dongle, and connect the two with a MIDI cable
#2 Make your own TRS A to B cable:
► www.midi.org/midi-articles/up...
#3 Connect two TRS ring/tip insert cables to each other "the other way around" - black to red and vice versa (note link may not be directly to the product - based on availability; also this is an affiliate link which helps the channel):
► amzn.to/2RxXkeX
TIMELINE:
0:00 Intro
1:55 Alternatives
2:35 Overview
4:10 Ableton Live
6:05 Hardware control
8:20 Display modes
9:00 Programming
9:35 Edit mode
12:25 Name mode
13:00 MIDI learn
13:20 Setup mode
15:00 Browser editor
16:20 Monitor
16:35 Pros & cons
Want to email me personally?
► Ziv (at) loopopmusic.com
NOTE: Occasionally I’ll try out affiliate marketing and include affiliate links. This means that I may earn a commission when you click on or make purchases via affiliate links. The content of this clip is entirely my opinion, and was not paid for or dictated in any way by the company creating the gear. Without addressing the particulars of products shown here as they might be under NDA, gear shown on this channel may be either sent by the manufacturer, on loan for review or bought at a discount.
New firmware with note names and non-global buttons released finally!
Finally indeed 🖥️! Very well thought out MIDI controller/ comprehensive review as per usual.
Love this. It's a MIDI Fighter Twister with lots more functionality, at only a slightly higher price.
I’ve been waiting for exactly this for a while... Perfect for controlling the mixer on the MPC 2500 with JJOS. The knobs are even laid out to match the pads / tracks and can be made to mimic the 4 x banks of pads on the MPC. First saw it and thought ‘aw, this will be USB only’ but no, actual DIN outputs too. The final sell for me was the encoders over pots. Perfect.
As an MPC1000 JJOS user, this comment sold me on this product!
Why do so many people diss stuff for what it isn't? This box is is the smallest controller I know of with visual labels that can control an absurd number of parameters across an entire multisynth rig with a minimum of button pushing. I just got one. I have tons of other controllers, but nothing that's this small and this powerful. No it doesn't do everything or solve every problem, but it's tiny, well-built and well thought out. The whole thing is the size of my hand, so it fits almost anywhere. Yes, it's expensive, but it's clearly a boutique thing. People will spend $400 on a guitar pedal these days without hesitation. This thing opens up control possibilities in a pragmatic way that I'm totally excited about. Size matters and small is great when you want to take it everywhere. I can't wait to control a software looping rig with this thing (among many other things).
1010music’s Black our Blue Box?
Sure, it’ll control those boxes.
I previously used "BOME MIDI Translator Pro" to enable a "small" controller to control up to at least 10.000 parameters. It was for the most part somewhat intuitive to use, and i had it programmed so that when i pushed the button to select a certain plugin that i wanted to control, it would also do a mouse click on the plugin in my DAW, and bring it up on the display. So pretty awesome if you ask me - but the "Faderfox EC4" have very similar functionality, in addition to that freakishly awesome display..! God how i have waited for something like this. I had started looking into hardware options, but now i can finally take advantage of owning Komplete 11 Ultimate. Was thinking of getting Maschine MK3, but i think maybe ill just get this one and a good sequencer. Already got a nice keyboard and drum pads.
A very thorough review, thank you. As attractive as this is you've just reminded me of the functionality already available in some of the controllers at my disposal, if only I could hire a knowledgeable youngster to program the darn things :)
I just bought one of these because it does a few special things.
PC, labels, CC, NRPN and it's small and manageable with encoders.
I got it cheap so am happy, I wanted the other one but it''s almost 2x the price, the one you have helped work on.
I am just happy now i can get to my AS1 hidden features without a PC, and that's priceless.
thanks loopop for another great video. As soon as I saw it, I ordered one of these and this thing is amazing! The ability to label controls along with having 16 X 16 unique controller groups of 16 controls makes it sooo much more useful than standard MIDI control surfaces. I am using it to control multiple hardware and software synths, each with their own unique set of control groups. So, for example, in Diva, I use one of the 16 Diva-specific sets of 16 controls to control Diva’s 3VCO (mini Moog -style) module, another set for Diva’s Ladder Filter module, etc. and because I have 16 sets of 16 controls dedicated to Diva, I can dedicate a unique set to each of Diva’s unique oscillator, filter and envelope modules. In total, I think Diva has > 16 unique modules, but I don’t use them all, so it’s not an issue for me. Because I have a unique EC4 control set for each module, I can orient the mapping of controls so that the layout of each module’s controls on my computer screen is close to the physical orientation of the controls on the EC4. This allows me to find the right control by muscle memory, as well as looking at the labels… A huge advantage. In addition to having a control set for each module, I have one “Live Set” control set for Diva that covers controls that I most often use in a live setting (Bank/Patch selection, Cutoff, resonance, ADSR, etc.). I have one of these “Live Sets” for each of my synths, each with some synth-specific control labels and CC/NRPN assignments, but mostly the number and position of controls are the same, so I can use my muscle memory to locate the right control within these “Live Sets” across all my synths.
Another thing that I appreciate about EC4 is that it’s small enough to fit in a space on my Novation SL mark II MIDI controller, and with a little bit of Velcro, the EC4 stays there and has extended immensely the MIDI controls of my SL Mark II, which, thanks to the great DriveByMoss script, are all mapped to control my DAW, Bitwig.
I’m in MIDI control heaven! :-).
The only thing that I think it would make it more heavenly is if the EC4 controls could function in a “pick up“ mode and display values fed back from the device...both of which I think would require two way communication between EC4 and the MIDI device. I’m guessing this would add greatly to the cost of such a device… If it is even possible to do. I’m guessing such features are probably only possible in a controller such as those made by SoundForce, which are probably a better choice if you only need to control a specific synth... but that’s not my case.
Thank you for adding your comment, I think you succeeded doing exactly what I'd like to, a synth per control group, being able to keep multiple synths on board. That's heavens! I just couldn't see the possibility for programming sysex msgs, as some midi implementation requires it. Kindly confirm this is actually possible. Thanks a lot in adv. !!!
I really like the idea of a browser editor, nicely solves any compatibility issues.
One of the best tutorial I've ever seen. Great! :-)
Excellent. We need more of this sort of thing.
Very interesting!! Excited for this one ...
MAAAAANNNNNNNNNNN! I love these detailed breakdowns!!!
I can see this partnering my Elektron Rytm Mk2 very nicely. So reasonably priced too. Awesome. 🖤
Did you buy it? Good with ARMK2?
Been using this for CC messages with Meris Enzo synth pedal. Works great!
I appreciate your videos so much
I’ve been using the EC4’s predecessor the PC4 to control my Zoia for a few months now. It really opens up the possibilities of complex patches that you can “play” in the Zoia. The Faderfox stuff is pricey, but quality doesn’t come cheap!
@@existenceternal I use the Faderfox TRS-B to DIN adapter with a DIN MIDI cable and back to the TRS-A adapter needed by the Zoia. I'd like to get a TRS B to A adapter cable to simplify things, but this works fine for now
Word Yes it would! And now I’ve ordered some. Thanks for the tip
Thanks for the review. Been looking for a controller for the continuum mini so I can use it without a computer. This looks like a great match!
Thanks for having me want to own this as well.
I love it that the editor is browser based. That way you are not limited to Mac or Windows only. For me as Linux user a BIG plus!
And I love the fact they put midi in/out for 5-pin DIN instead of only USB midi on this device.
But the price... I know, you get a lot of functionality, but a controller for € 299,-?
Dooooope...you're my Hero Loopop!! Xx
I’d love to do tests with this on on iOS. Would be perfect for something like miRack. Being able to label stuff like that is invaluable.
Btw, forgot to say, great review! 👊🏼
I’d watch that!! Btw.....you both do fantastic reviews
Thanks. Clear, concise, sold.
I use a UC4 to control an H9000. Very slick. I too would like to see the UC4 which has 8 faders and 8 knobs upgraded to the OLED screen.
This is the one!
Longer names could be displayed using scrolling, maybe with adjustable modes. Once, bouncing, scrolling, fast, slow and so on... I think that this can be implemented into future firmware updates.
Looks great. I am currently looking at portable Hardware setup for a long traveling trip, and i think the combination of this, the digitakt and ipad could work great
Cool! Can it receive MIDI program change messages to trigger Setup/Group changes from another piece of gear (ie a sequencer changing to a different pattern)?
this is awesome!
i have the Faderfox UC3 for years now and I use it in every live performance I do...for those complaining about the price it's an incredible value considering how durable and compact and feature rich it is (and i have a BAZILLION midi controllers to compare it to)
Nice bit of kit! It’s got me thinking of the untapped potential in a controller of this size and form factor. Would love to have one with a touchscreen taking up most of the upper portion (which would double as an X-Y controller) with built in smart features like sequencing, chord bank, arp, CC recording/playback, etc - maybe an open source platform, able to run custom third party extensions. Encoders that have at least one more axis of control (push/pressure control) .. MPE encoders ;)
iphone can do this with open stage control and bitwig with mossgraber script
EXCELLENT. This is the video that put the EC4 over the top for me. I now use it to control my various pedals with MIDI capabilities. Even better, Ziv and I discussed alternative ways to interface with various pedals such as ZOIA. Given the EC4's odd choice of Type-B TRS there's some difficulty in making the connection. In addition to the suggestions here you can also simply connect a 5-pin MIDI cable to 1/8" TRS Type-A and Type-B adapters!
I got one, its amazing totally helped with my workflow and performance aspect. Controlling two elektron devices and some effects pedals at the same time
Push per encoder would be ace! @Faderfox
Okay, the fact that they made them push encoders was hella smart. I NEED IT!
whoa that one angle is trippy...
wow......mind blowing....another amazing vid...
Wow. Actually i kinda need something like this. Thank you. :D
Great review 👍 But it's a bit unclear how the push encoder function works. More specifically can an encoder be reseted to zero with an encoder push?
I am on the verge of replacing my BCR2000 with this only because of the screen. But for me the "reset to zero on encoder push" is a must.
I’d love to have this but more than any gear shown on this channel I would just love to have the free time to learn these things and be able to enjoy them more because of all the knowledge.
Don't get me wrong, I hear you. We all struggle with the time issue, but I recommend just to take baby steps. It's super easy to get overwhelmed by all the information out there nowadays. I have a fulltime job and a child, wife and many other activities which I'm also super passionate about and which all require my time. I still have had the time to learn new stuff in music. And I just recently released my first album (you can find it on Soundcloud and Bandcamp with my name, if I peaked your interest) and have released many tracks before that. I've just taken one step at the time. I recommend writing it down which things you'd like to learn and in which order - think about it really, which order would make the most sense to YOU and benefit you the most in order to accomplish your OWN goals. For example: it usually makes sense to start learn about mixing (and mastering), when you actually have something to mix and so on. Hope this helps, motivates or gives you some ideas.
This said, in all honesty, I've also made some sacrifices, mostly in my social life, in order to have that needed time. This is something many people are not willing to do, but life is unfortunately about choices. :( That said, I'd be down, if someone would sell extra freetime. ;)
@@tomikokki7626 Very well said. 👍👍👍
Can I use it to adjust the parameters of multiple vst instruments by controlling one at a time? (similar to changing to a different template in LaunchControl XL but with endless encoders)?
What are the pressable knobs for? Besides choosing menu options, I so wish they could be used for sending MIDI CCs. Would that be possible to add with a firmware update?
I think zoia actually has a sort of midi through. In the latest firmware you can choose which cc's to consume, and the rest are forwarded. I haven't tested it though.
i agree a version with 8 knobs and 8 sliders would be dope
Another pro class, thank you
Just what my Yamaha Reface DX needs!! Exciting.
I'm wondering about the DX7.
If it just wouldn't cost as much as a brand new Reface DX...
Haha! True. Looks like a solid build though and could be seen as a long term investment as it can be used on all MIDI kit. ...until MIDI v2 comes out.
Thank you. But can this ec4 control parameters of such various synths like korg poly800/dw8000 or roland jx3p??
No, it can't.
This would be great for VCV Rack
I’m looking at it for mi rack
yes it is great for that , for the moment i use a pyle PMIDIPD30 with the vcv rack , it is not so sophisticated but it make the job and it is cheap
@@IgnisCygnus147 hey kind internet stranger Did you end up grabbing this ? I hope you’re making music either way !
Could you setup different hardware instruments to respond to different channels? In other words could this unit have different setups per channel so you could say switch channels and have a whole set of controllers assigned for different hardware instruments?
Hello! Seems nice! Does this have its own Control Surface Plugin to integrate with DAWs?
hey such am awesome vid! so im actually using a faderfox uc4 and im running into weird behavior. im slaving ableton and a model samples to an erm midiclock. if i unplug and replug the faderfox while the midiclock is running there will be a bump in the tempo which isnt ideal for live gig senarios. loopop do you know how this is possible? im using the ableton script from Mathias (tha UC4 script is selected in the midi preferences for this) and only Remote is turned on (Sync and Track are turned off!). its a mystery to me… thanks so much!!
Hmmm, with Ableton, is it limited to only controlling the first 16 tracks? Or is there a way it can shift past the 16th track?
could i use this with something like the morning star mc8 to control a pedal board with midi pedals?
Hi ! does anyone know if I can map this to control an ssl type channel strip plugin/switch from track to track efficiently ? (in Ableton)
Ive always wanted the micromodul8 😍
If i would connect this thing to a usb hub, and this hub is connected to the mpc one, could it control a sound module connected to the same hub? + the mpc one ?
Hi! This looks interesting!!!
How does it behave if you have f.ex. 20 individual channels in Ableton. Could you map the volume/faders to two different pages (16 first channels on page one and the remaining 4 channels on page 2). And what would happen if you group channels. Will the mapping stay with the individual channles no matter what or would the encoders all of a sudden control the group, rather than the individual channels?
Can you define by how much the encoder needs to be moved in order to reach min and max values? (I think you've mentionned it but maybe you meant something else?!)
Thanks for your kind feedback!
Keep up the good work!! 👍
I wish the display could be a min, max. I might want to control euclidean fill etc and my destination may map the full midi range to say, 16. No way to linearly scale the display while still sending 0-127? Bonus would be to support curves as well, ie. frequency.
Another lack is the launch mode of session view in Live, pushing the encoders it might launch the clips in the grid of Live. Why not an all in one solution for Live in a small pack?
is it possible to change to the different groups by sending Program changes to the ec4? cheers
big lads, here for support
Lovely gadget. The screen and the size make it super useful. The big problem with it for me is the price. I haven’t seen it for under $300, which to me, is high for a controller without keys (or more complex pitch control interfaces). I’ll have to stick with my cheap Arturia Beatstep and sticky labels.
Forgot you could use the beatstep like that, I've only ever used the sequencer! GAS temporarily averted
If you order direct, it's 251€, which is ~$277. Unfortunately, shipping is a whopping 50€ (~$56). The total is still high, but it beats the $399 it costs to buy it in the US.
I'm looking for a cheaper option with similar features. Korg nanoKONTROL 2 doesn't have any indicators at all. Behringer x-touch mini has levels but no labels. AKAI MPD 226 only has 4 knobs and 3 banks. The minilab 3 and mpk mini plus both have 8 endless encoders and banks (mpk with custom labels) but the controller I'm about to buy is the keystep 37 for its led per key, custom scales, and strum. So is there anything like ec4 that's new since early 2020? When I buy I'll make sure to use your affiliate link. Thanks so much for the comprehensive and exhaustive info.
Hi guys, is it possible to send midi program change by pressing the encoders? Thanks
Thinking about getting one for my Syntakt
Recently dusted off my original JL Cooper Fadermaster, from the 80s.
Still works great.
Could not find any vendors selling the Faderfox EC4, in the USA.
Might be able to purchase directly from Faderfox website.
For $400 I would get something else.
It's almost worth it. But considering what's available in CPUs and oLED screens, this could have been so much more with more information and higher resolution.
Any tips on how to avoid CC overlap between this and an akai APC mkii?
greets , first thanks for all your deep reviews , very very instructive .
I have a question , in sevral videos you use a osciloscope plugin , i'm looking for a similar or this same plugin
i find the interface proper and seeing your videos inspired me to get a tool to see the wave forms in real time
while learning and practicing synthesis . thx.
Thanks! I use MOscilloscope and MAnalyzer by a company called Melda - they’re free with some limitations in the MFreeFXBundle. Occasionaly I’ll use scopes by VCV
@@loopop thank you for the fast answer , i check it now.
There is another way besides sticking the tape on MIDI controller or holding it in memory. I use templates for each utility I happen to live tweak. They are basically custom made plastic overlays with labels that have holes in them for knobs and buttons, labels under each knob hole/button hole and a label indicating which utility they are for such as "NI Wave Weaver", "NI Analogic Filter", "Abelton Jarbled Ambience", etc. Very thin and lightweight, I can take 100 of them with me if I need to (though I never need that many) without considerably increasing the weight of my backpack.
@telum - nice comment - will you link to an example of what you're talking about?
@@codekiln You don't know what an overlay template is? How about a "skin"? ua-cam.com/video/vu4WdjcbLXQ/v-deo.html I don't order these online, by the way, I make them myself.
This looks nice to control my ES-9 iPad effects but since this and the iPads connect via USB it would mean active hub with power again ... the ES-8 and now ES-9 were me trying to get away from too many cables and power supplies ... hm.
Does this have standalone sysex programming? This would be perfect for Motif XF Perf mode.
Hello loopop,
Very interesting review, I am planning to get it 😍
to control two midi external devices and to benefit of midi learn, is it to preferable to wire
_ midi in and out w/ mini Jack-din cable ?
Or
_ midi in and out w/ usb cable ? Which interface usb-b midi do you recommand ?
Thank you for your help
Thanks! I'm not sure it makes a difference if I understand the questions. Regarding USB-MIDI - please check out my USB MIDI video
Looks interesting. I guess it can also make my Alesis Micron be controlled as if it was an Ion. Some Argentinian manufacturer makes dedicated controllers/programmers to do this very thing. It's half the price of this one, but it can only mimic one synth: if you then want it to control let's say a Microkorg, you have to reset the controller first, so it's not plug and play. And that switching you can do many times, but not infinitely. I've got many rompler modules from E-mu, and also the Korg T-rack and Yamaha TG-77. Can it control all of that, even FM?
yeah id like to know if it fits with a Micron, Old Yammy gear and JV-series...
Loopop does this turn some home synths into your own EMS VCS Synth?
@loopop: Do you know if EC4 offers a snapshot functionality as found on the PC12?
No it doesn’t
Would be nice for my dozen+ iOS synths... 3 or 4 which are active in AUM at one time.
its amazing when used with an octatrack ;)
Does anyone know if this unit can control more than one box at a time? I would like to have my Digitakt and Syntakt controlled by one instead of having to buy 2.
Doez the uc4 behave similarly to this with the param visible
Personally, I am excited for the future of midi and midi controllers. The prices will work themselves out once we get companies realizing the meta market for building flexible midi controllers, especially to accomodate the deluge of affordable synths and hardware coming out. Space is limited so a controller that can act as a flexible master controller that can easily be customized and controlled from the hardware to quickly switch from handling one piece of gear to the next - it will be a big value add to studios and bedrooms studios. Here's to hoping manufacturers and designers don't forget about sysex and NRPNs..... make me a Native Instruments Jam mixed with a novation Zero SL MK2 and configure it to work with all the future functions of MIDI 2.0 and that will make my nerdy midi controller dreams come true :)
the cutest midi controller...
Great video. Thank you. Is it possible to send a custom Sysex message ?
Great review of a very feature rich EC4 controller. The small size and label display make this a great and unique investment. Have one on order.
Here is a wish list (one can dream right :) :
1. Master/slave mode to support ganging of multiple slave encoders per Group
2. MSB/LSB (Bank Select/static) & Program Change/dynamic via single encoder (with min/max support)
3. User Programmable custom midi string per encoder (Perhaps already supported in Learn mode?)
4. User Programmable custom midi string on depress per encoder (Perhaps already supported in Learn mode?)
5. Browser support to transmit midi string to EC4 when in learn mode (verses sysex dumps).
The EC4 controller clearly supports and satisfies 1000s of general midi function use cases. The ones mentioned above are perhaps outliers that may already exist in the product or could exist in the future based on user demand.
There is so much to explore with what the EC4 can already do! Looking forward to getting one in a few weeks. Gratefully.
Thanks! PRGC+MSB/LSB indeed would be nice, as would immediate browser changes (there's something scary about replacing the contents of the entire device...). Let me know which MIDI strings you'd like me to send and I can try... or maybe Faderfox can comment? I've seen them respond to other comments.
@@loopop While it is unreasonable to anticipate unlimited use cases for a controller, the venerable 20 year old plus Peavy PC-1600x has held it's own. Although it is an "obsolete" FADER controller (which lacks all the benefits of "modern standalone midi controllers ie: portability, USB support, great display technology, warranty, etc.), the 1600 still has quite a bit of "juice" even when compared to todays standalone controllers. To get an idea of the types of strings I'm referring to feel free to reference Appendix B of the either the PC-1600 or 1600x PDF here:
assets.peavey.com/literature/manuals/80301652.pdf ; 1600
assets.peavey.com/literature/manuals/80304309.pdf ; 1600x
Comparing apples to oranges I suppose. The EC4 and 1600 may complement each other well. Reflecting deeper into the 1600 User Manual makes one appreciate how clever the developers were over 20 years ago. I will take a look at the new FaderFox Faders next to see how they compare to the "obsolete" Peavy :)
I had a look - probably not... definitely not for long sysex strings as that's not mentioned anywhere in the documentation. 1600x looks awesome. If it had a per encoder/fader LCD it would be quite compelling even without USB
Did they implement any of the firmware suggestions?
Greetings, I'm trying to decide between purchasing this or the electra one. I think I remember watching a video from you messing with the electra one?? I'm looking for a good solution to control my deluge, tracker or blackbox. Will the electra one show me the full name of parameter I'm controlling instead of only the 4 letters the deluge shows?
Hey, yes, Electra One is awesome
hi. im sorry cuase i dont speak english. one question please. if i save a session in a daw and then when i open it , are there memory in my knobs? or when i move i have a jump
No, unfortunately the unit goes back to zero on all CCs after powering down 🤷♂️
Need to show how it work with VST synth like arutria dx7 ! The market really dont have norm controller with more knob's for control vst synth with so many many parametrs!
This has gone Under the radar and is probably one of the most important Addition to Midi Since it was invented . YES PLEASE .
You can control anything on the Zoia?
Thank You!
which firmware version was this video made on?
Love faderfox gear! I am interested in using this to control and EMX & ESX2. How would i send messages from both to the EC4?
If there’s no midi thru you need a splitter
loopop thanks for the response - so to be clear i have esx2 as master sending clock to emx2 right now. Would i use a splitter from one the electribes to get to the ec4!? Sorry i must sound dumb
Will it be midi 2.0 compatible?
I'm really curious how you'd use this thing with a desktop synth with no keyboard on. Cause im sure you'd already be using MIDI IN for the controller to play your notes.
As long as your computer has two USB ports it will work fine. If not, get an external usb hub
Hey, was that patch on the Sub 25 a factory preset or was it custom?
Custom
I’d like to use this with an iPhone while also connecting my iPhone to either an audio interface or Digitakt, also in audio interface mode. Can someone recommend a decent usb hub that would make connecting the iPhone to the EC4+Digitakt+added usb midi controller ?
I might want to use Digitakt only to pass midi back and forth from Digitakt to sequence some ios synths and use a separate audio interface.
Im thinking AUM on the phone will let me do all the setup. The iOS device would be the usb host for the rest of the gear. So I think I just need a good usb hub.
I also have a Blokas Midi hub which will be part of this setup as well.
Thanks
If you connect it to a usb hub can you control more than one external instrument at a time on different channels?
not a regular hub no, you need a smart hub (computer, bomebox, etc) to tell the MIDI data where to go
So very close for me!
Sadly, my synths are mostly Rolands, so no sysex, is a no go for me.
Felt the same way about the Novation SL MkIII, they've all moved on from us Roland folks it appears.
Still, wonderful review as always!
Hah... I'm hunting in this world (fruitlessly)... Best knob midi controller that does sysex? Anything even exist?
So, changing groups will save the values for all encoders?
Yes, as long as you don't power down
how big is it compared to midi figter twister?
Anyone know how this compares to the Electra one? Other than being cheaper...