A few yeas ago I bought around 200 rounds of 44 magnum for something like $30. It was all in the factory boxes, the guy selling it at the gun show said it was factory ammo. Since the same box of ammo contained 3-7 different head stamps I knew he was full of it. Once I got home I started pulling bullets. Some bullets were 200 grains some were 240. Powder was mixed among individual boxes but I believe each case contained 1 type of powder. Since the rounds had a really poor crimp which did not engage the bullet very well I paid for 200 primed brass and 200 bullets. I threw out the powder, and pulling all those bullets is kind of a pain but I am glad that someone didn't blow their gun up in them. Since then I looked for the guy that sold me the ammo, I haven't seen him since.
I've heard of BP and smokeless duplex loads in old guns like Martini Henrys and Snider Enfields (and will not use them, personally) but never a triplex load. Shooting something like that is quite a gamble.
I suspect that the powder was from several different years of manufacture of cartridges which were pulled apart and the powder dumped into one container. Quite a concoction.
Nice video! I just opened a box of what I was told is 8x50r only to try to chamber it and discover it is about 50 rounds of 8x56r instead! And to my horror you now tell me they are all berdan primed!
This Hungarian headstamp cases were originally loaded ( Factory) as 8x56R 31M cartridges. Some Idiot Distributor in the 1950s broke up this ammo ( Interarms Import, for US sales) to convert it to 8x50R for use in M95 original rifles in USA. The mixed powder is a combination of Flake ( German/Hungarian), Tubular ( US?) And Disc ( Shotgun) powders. The Hungarian 31 M cases also have a .217" / 5,5mm Berdan Primer, whilst original 8x50R cases had a .199"/ 5,0mm Primer, with Roth Central Flash Hole Anvil ( Unique to Austro-Hungarian & Bulgarian 8x50R -- and later Polish & Czech 8x50R). Back in the late 60s, I acquired a Budapest 8x50R M95 carbine, sporterised, thru a LGS who had bought it from a visiting American Yachtsman...along with Brass and Steel cased AH and ML cartridges ( sporting and FMJ) made from 8x56R original ammo. I reloaded them several times ( Berdan primers were then readily available in Australia - even now, 60 years later, but scarcer). I still have the rifle, and the original cases, with some AH short range training rounds as well. M95 and M95/30 rifles only became common with the break up of the Iron Curtain in 89-90, and Bulgaria cleaning out all its Strategic Stores of 8x56R Rifles and Ammo in the 1990s. Now we( you) are getting the WWI Austrian- Italian- Ethiopian stash of M95s...and No correct Ammo ( India makes a correct 8x50R cartridges, known as " .315 Indian" , but at present, limited production for Licensed Domestic Use, No Export.) Cartridge introduced in India in 1907 by British ban on British Military Bores ( 577, 450, 303)in Indian civilian market. So BSA introduced the use of .315 Mannlicher ( 8x50R) on a Lee Enfield Rifle, and after WWII, with India having made 8x50R for thousands of Italian Captured M95s from Ethiopia used for Training, continued making both the Lee Enfield Rifles and Cartridges in 8x50R for Internal Hunter use. DocAV
First off sorry for the delay in responding. That is very interesting info, thanks for passing it along. No way that in today's lawyer dominated world that sort of "reloading" would be done done by a commercial outfit.
ÁH means Állami Hadianyaggyár ( State Munitions Factory) and the ML means Magyar Lőszerművek (Hungarian Ammunition Factory). These are Hungarian 31M. (and not M30, because the Hungarian Army introduced this type of cartridges in 1931) 8x56mmR Mannlicher cartridges for the 1895/31M (95M carbines marked with H are the 95/31M rifles), 35M mannlicher rifles and for the 31M Solothurn (Hungarian Solothurn S2-200) machine gun.
A nice little winter in front of the tv project sorting the spheres from the flakes from the rods! Probably a late someones reloading testing project and only that person would have been able to explain what it was.
That would certainly be a contender in the Waste of Time Olympics. Luckily for me I rarely watch TV. I agree that the person responsible for these reloads is probably no longer around or is at any rate quite old now, as the patina on the bullets was significant although not quite matching that of the cartridge cases.
I can't mail primed brass. The primers are also berdan so not terribly easy to reload either. I'm sure he will make up some cases, PPU 8x56R could be used if he can get dies.
I use 7.62x54r but I worry about the shells so I use black powder instead of smokeless. Did you see that there’s a company in Florida that sells remanufactured 8x50r using 7.62x54r brass but it’s$95 per box and comes with a warning label saying use at your own risk. 😅 I hope a company makes it new soon
@@314299 they also sell it custom made but they have a disclaimer about the risks. I’m hoping some company will make it brand new without having to fire form the shells
@@314299 yup! I fire form it out of the box. The narrow bullet acts as a pressure valve. Then run it though a die a little trim and now you have new production 8x50R brass that’s made to modern standards and works with modern primers
I doubt that. The primers and cases are from original factory loaded ammo but soft point bullets and duplex/triplex powder charges are the results of some "handloader" attempt.
I'll join in here too, and glad that you didn't fire those, as I rather enjoy your videos!!! ( I'm smiling here at my own foolish joke!) Seriously though, some folks do some dangerous things sometimes, it's a good thing you stopped these rounds here.
I'm in the habit of breaking down a few rounds of anything old just to see if it has deteriorated, however I certainly was not expecting to find charges of mixed powder.
I buy ammo reloads sometimes at the shows just to see what the heck people are doing , wise to buy if cheap for info BUT never to shoot ,,,, ps. You guys out there be careful and remember to TRUST BUT VERIFY !
Where did you find it? I have had my WW1 Mannlicher for several years, and I can rarely ever find ammo for it (8x50R). Even when I do, it is usually $45 per 5 round clip.
Yeah, it's difficult to understand the thought process that arrived at mixing at least three types of powder and then loading random amounts of the stuff.
Hello, just wondering if you may still have any 8x50R rounds. I am looking for at least one, to chamber in to a 8x50R WWI Austrian converted Mosin Nagant M91. Would just need original case and bullet. Primer and powder not requred. Thanks
The AH marked ammo was made by the Csepel arsenal near Budapest, Hungary.
Thanks for the info!
A few yeas ago I bought around 200 rounds of 44 magnum for something like $30. It was all in the factory boxes, the guy selling it at the gun show said it was factory ammo. Since the same box of ammo contained 3-7 different head stamps I knew he was full of it. Once I got home I started pulling bullets. Some bullets were 200 grains some were 240. Powder was mixed among individual boxes but I believe each case contained 1 type of powder. Since the rounds had a really poor crimp which did not engage the bullet very well I paid for 200 primed brass and 200 bullets. I threw out the powder, and pulling all those bullets is kind of a pain but I am glad that someone didn't blow their gun up in them. Since then I looked for the guy that sold me the ammo, I haven't seen him since.
I expect you'll never see him again.
Triplex loads. Scary stuff, indeed. Straight pull grenade.
I would not volunteer to set one off.
One ounce of suspicion prevents a pound of metal in the face. Wise call.
Multistage rocket loads XD
I've had a blast watching unknown powders burn. Mostly from range finds that people drop and can't find.
I've burned a few pounds of old powder over the years to get rid of it. It certainly disappears quickly.
The ML marked ammo stands for Magyar-Losermurvek an ammunition factory near Veszprem, Hungary.
And thanks again!
Not a problem. I’m a wealth of useless information
I've heard of BP and smokeless duplex loads in old guns like Martini Henrys and Snider Enfields (and will not use them, personally) but never a triplex load. Shooting something like that is quite a gamble.
I suspect that the powder was from several different years of manufacture of cartridges which were pulled apart and the powder dumped into one container. Quite a concoction.
I think in older times, that kind of behaviour was called alchemy.
On the way home with your gun show reloads did you stop and get gas station sushi?
No, just gas station Thai food....
Nice video! I just opened a box of what I was told is 8x50r only to try to chamber it and discover it is about 50 rounds of 8x56r instead! And to my horror you now tell me they are all berdan primed!
That's unfortunate. As far as I know all surplus 8x56 is berdan primed.
This Hungarian headstamp cases were originally loaded ( Factory) as 8x56R 31M cartridges. Some Idiot Distributor in the 1950s broke up this ammo ( Interarms Import, for US sales) to convert it to 8x50R for use in M95 original rifles in USA.
The mixed powder is a combination of Flake ( German/Hungarian), Tubular ( US?) And Disc ( Shotgun) powders.
The Hungarian 31 M cases also have a .217" / 5,5mm Berdan Primer, whilst original 8x50R cases had a .199"/ 5,0mm Primer, with Roth Central Flash Hole Anvil ( Unique to Austro-Hungarian & Bulgarian 8x50R -- and later Polish & Czech 8x50R).
Back in the late 60s, I acquired a Budapest 8x50R M95 carbine, sporterised, thru a LGS who had bought it from a visiting American Yachtsman...along with Brass and Steel cased AH and ML cartridges ( sporting and FMJ) made from 8x56R original ammo.
I reloaded them several times ( Berdan primers were then readily available in Australia - even now, 60 years later, but scarcer). I still have the rifle, and the original cases, with some AH short range training rounds as well.
M95 and M95/30 rifles only became common with the break up of the Iron Curtain in 89-90, and Bulgaria cleaning out all its Strategic Stores of 8x56R Rifles and Ammo in the 1990s.
Now we( you) are getting the WWI Austrian- Italian- Ethiopian stash of M95s...and No correct Ammo ( India makes a correct 8x50R cartridges, known as " .315 Indian" , but at present, limited production for Licensed Domestic Use, No Export.)
Cartridge introduced in India in 1907 by British ban on British Military Bores ( 577, 450, 303)in Indian civilian market. So BSA introduced the use of .315 Mannlicher ( 8x50R) on a Lee Enfield Rifle, and after WWII, with India having made 8x50R for thousands of Italian Captured M95s from Ethiopia used for Training, continued making both the Lee Enfield Rifles and Cartridges in 8x50R for Internal Hunter use.
DocAV
First off sorry for the delay in responding. That is very interesting info, thanks for passing it along. No way that in today's lawyer dominated world that sort of "reloading" would be done done by a commercial outfit.
Triplex load? That's pretty a pretty dubious prospect for a straight pull. :-|
Just like a three stage rocket!
Some nice fertilizer for your tomatoes there!
Guess I'll have to plant a garden next spring.
Man, that's scary! Glad you pulled them apart!
At least the pulled bullets were useful, I loaded some 8mm Mauser with them.
ÁH means Állami Hadianyaggyár ( State Munitions Factory) and the ML means Magyar Lőszerművek (Hungarian Ammunition Factory). These are Hungarian 31M. (and not M30, because the Hungarian Army introduced this type of cartridges in 1931) 8x56mmR Mannlicher cartridges for the 1895/31M (95M carbines marked with H are the 95/31M rifles), 35M mannlicher rifles and for the 31M Solothurn (Hungarian Solothurn S2-200) machine gun.
Thanks for the info.
A nice little winter in front of the tv project sorting the spheres from the flakes from the rods!
Probably a late someones reloading testing project and only that person would have been able to explain what it was.
That would certainly be a contender in the Waste of Time Olympics. Luckily for me I rarely watch TV.
I agree that the person responsible for these reloads is probably no longer around or is at any rate quite old now, as the patina on the bullets was significant although not quite matching that of the cartridge cases.
Bloke on the Range is looking for cases for 8x50, you could pass them on.
I can't mail primed brass. The primers are also berdan so not terribly easy to reload either. I'm sure he will make up some cases, PPU 8x56R could be used if he can get dies.
I use 7.62x54r but I worry about the shells so I use black powder instead of smokeless. Did you see that there’s a company in Florida that sells remanufactured 8x50r using 7.62x54r brass but it’s$95 per box and comes with a warning label saying use at your own risk. 😅 I hope a company makes it new soon
There was one, guy made a bunch of ammo and it was selling well, then he gets caught with child porn! Thats right the only manufacturer was a pedofile
You reform 7.62x54R into 8x50R?
@@314299 have to fire form and trim it down a bit.
@@314299 they also sell it custom made but they have a disclaimer about the risks. I’m hoping some company will make it brand new without having to fire form the shells
@@314299 yup! I fire form it out of the box. The narrow bullet acts as a pressure valve. Then run it though a die a little trim and now you have new production 8x50R brass that’s made to modern standards and works with modern primers
I had the same A and H marking on one of my mannlicher m95 en bloc clips
That makes sense.
The original stuff is described as "semi-smokless"
I have read somewhere that "semi-smokless" was a mixture of black powder and true smokeless.
Those look like Hungarian factory original ammo. The primers is what give it away. Might have been some kind of Hungarian duplex powder load.
I doubt that. The primers and cases are from original factory loaded ammo but soft point bullets and duplex/triplex powder charges are the results of some "handloader" attempt.
damn, that is some potentially very rad ammo indeed.
I would not want to shoot it.
I'll join in here too, and glad that you didn't fire those, as I rather enjoy your videos!!! ( I'm smiling here at my own foolish joke!)
Seriously though, some folks do some dangerous things sometimes, it's a good thing you stopped these rounds here.
I'm in the habit of breaking down a few rounds of anything old just to see if it has deteriorated, however I certainly was not expecting to find charges of mixed powder.
OMG! THEY MIXED IT.
Yeah, I would like to interview the genius who thought that was a good idea.
Wonder who they were loading 8x50 for that late.
who ;) ?
Beutewaffen would be a good UA-cam channel name.
Would work better for someone located in Europe.
I buy ammo reloads sometimes at the shows just to see what the heck people are doing , wise to buy if cheap for info BUT never to shoot ,,,, ps. You guys out there be careful and remember to TRUST BUT VERIFY !
At a cheap enough price they are worth picking up to tear down to reuse bullets/cases/primers (discard the powder).
@@314299 Yes, that’s my point
Where did you find it? I have had my WW1 Mannlicher for several years, and I can rarely ever find ammo for it (8x50R). Even when I do, it is usually $45 per 5 round clip.
It was jut a random find at a gun show, the seller had just the one bag. Where he got it I have no idea.
I wonder what the person who loaded these round was thinking
Yeah, it's difficult to understand the thought process that arrived at mixing at least three types of powder and then loading random amounts of the stuff.
Maybe they planed it to blow up uncle Joe's hunting rifle and collect life insurance or inheritance?
Hello, just wondering if you may still have any 8x50R rounds. I am looking for at least one, to chamber in to a 8x50R WWI Austrian converted Mosin Nagant M91. Would just need original case and bullet. Primer and powder not requred. Thanks
I dont' have any loaded ones but I do have primed cases but no original bullets, just the soft points I pulled out of these rounds.
Scary!
Indeed.
Was this weird powder combo done awhile back by some suppliers of military pulled powder?
I doubt it. Most likely the "invention" of some intrepid hand loader.
Thanks for making vid
I thought it might prove interesting to at least a few people.
Scary shit eh.
Makes you wonder what they would do if they were fired.
Bad ju ju!
Indeed!
Do you still have these casings??
I think so.
Omg crazy if you had fired them the gun would have gone boom then boooom a mauser is strong but???!
Hard to say what the outcome would have been, luckily no one will find out with the stuff pulled apart.
@@314299 three types of powder three different burning rates lucky you reload 4895 h about 40 g seems about right
3 different kinds of powder = 3x better burn rate!
3X more explody!
scary
Yep.