The person talking over the game needs to stfu like anybody asked him anything. The situation bad enough and he's like that's it I'm gonna kill a player like WHAT 😂 talk about blowing up a situation even further then it had to be.
The world where he chose to flip a card over himself? They don’t know what each has, only until Josh realised he’s going up against a potential flush is when he backpedaled. Get real, keep to your word.
@@natew8882 yeah you can tell by the player on the rights reaction that he was definitely in agreement. The complete look of shock and him calling the floor was further proof he was ok with what was going on. It’s not like there’s an entire video about it.
@@natew8882 yeah when you say pick one, it's usually for the player to still turn over their own card, you don't touch someone else's cards or it's a straight ban
@@genapp3603 I think it could go either way. I have played thousands and thousands of hours of No Limit Hold'em and it just depends on the situation and the players and what they agree to. I will say though that surely when you have an agreement to expose one of your cards it really doesn't matter who turns it over and it usually is the choice of the other person. I don't think that Josh did anything wrong. First and foremost it's every player's responsibility to protect their hand. When he spreads his cards and allows Josh to turn one over he could have stopped him at any point and he did not.
He flipped it over, and nothing was said because he told him to flip it, and when he saw a heart, he knew he was beat. I could hear what was exactly said prior to him flipping it over, but that's probably why the guy that was trying to bluff didn't want any of his cards flipped, because it would have been an auto call by the guy with the flush
if you wanna play the "I'll show you one of my cards" game during a hand, turn your card over yourself, don't ever tell anyone else at the table including the dealer that they can turn it over, I've never seen this happen in my entire life, never touch another players cards for any reason
It's grey area. Some casinos don't allowed to show one card agreement. Players alway argue over silly thing like this. Just like the Players all agree with bomb pot then one had pocket ace and goes all in. Then they all argue. The Players goes all in ot wrong. He can agree to it but the other guys made a motion so their chips stay in. Seen it happened all the time
I’ve seen it…. Annette obrestad was playing terrible. 1 of her usual “ it’s not me it’s everyone else’s fault “ type of day. She was 1st to act. She bet , I folded, so did many after me except the last guy. He was short stacked but not short enough to have you wondering when he’s going to say all in. He called her raise. She went on a rant about why he called her. He said nothing. She didn’t like that. She walked over and looked at his cards and knocked his chips all over. Then claiming to the dealer and whoever else will listen that she didn’t do it. I’ve never seen anyone be that rude at a poker table. All because he called her bet and short stack on chips. Only Vanessa selbst comes close to that rudeness. Both are pathetic.
after assessing the situation, The words exchanged caught on tape: Josh got verbal confirmation after asking to flip dogg's hand and consider flipping one of josh's...josh is fine. though bad etiquette in general. Who the hell would not snap call a backdoor flush O_O J dogg petty af and has some issues in real life that could attribute to that.
Haha I play poker with a guy that when he flops the nuts but there are draws available (and pot was somewhat large preflop) he will shove all in say it and table his cards because he knows he will receive the orbit penalty but that he in most cases will also take the pot. He thinks it's a good trade off not to get drawn out on lol
Pretty clear angle from Jdogg. Josh's decisions are finished and he has minimal, if anything to gain from seeing a card. Although he should get some type of punishment for flipping an opponents card. Very strange for him to agree to show a card with his exact holdings.
Yeah he was using his victim mentality to try and angle the floor into a sure fire optimal decision. His pu$$y was extremely hurt for not too much reason. If it was the turn or something or the guy wasn’t all in that’s a different story.
well the dealer should have stepped in the moment he touch other other players cards. Also dead that guys hand for un sportsmanship i know this poker but you know the basic rules and if it was my game would politely ask that guy to never comeback to the game
@spin-rg9ib because the announcer is automatically blaming Josh when he has no clue what was discussed amongst the players. The guy is already flipping a card over gives him no advantage. The only advantage was to Jdogg that's why he's begging the floor to let him flip a card. Grimey move in my opinion.
Josh was naive to fall into JDogg’s trap of turning over his cards. That was a stupid move on his part. However, the real angler here is JDogg. He is the one that stands to gain an advantage by turning over one of the cards. He made it seem as though Josh turned over his card without his permission, although it is clear that Jdogg let Josh do it. Also, quite disappointed at the floor and the TCH team. The floor did not make a correct judgement at that point in time. The commentator and editor of this video were also very biased towards JDogg and made it seem like it is entirely Josh’s fault.
It only became an issue when Josh refused to flip one of his cards and made the vital mistake of touching someone else's card. The whole situation was fucking stupid. Yeah JDogg finessed the situation and had the most to gain by seeing 1 card due to Josh already being all-in. Like I said it's just dumb.
Jdogg can't be the angler. If they agreed to each see one of the others cards they should flip there own card over. If they were on opposite sides of table this wouldn't happen. Josh was the idiot for flipping the card. He knew when he saw the heart that Jdogg probably had the flush cause he was tanking the call. So now if he allows Jdogg to flip his card he knows he loses. So he's going to play dumb like it wasn't an agreement. He was already all in and had him covered so he says the flip really doesn't change anything. Josh is a scumbag. Got his hand stuck in cookie jar.
Its not an angle is called having a higher IQ than your opponent. JDogg made an agreement that Josh didn't want to hold up, very simple, quit trying to make it anything else
I think J Dogg handled the situation poorly. You could tell he saw this was a way he could "angle shoot" his opponent. What Josh did was stupid and he should have been given a penalty, but to be fair, it did not change the outcome of the hand whereas J Dogg flipping over Josh's card did. Side note: J Dogg tanking this long with a backdoor flush is a crime in itself.
Seriously. I cringed watching this. How the hell was that not a snap call? Then the tanking and angle shooting is egregious. Both of these guys are clowns
J dogg was angling in this situation but you also never flip someone else’s card over. J Dogg got exactly what he wanted and actually went against the floors ruling by also flipping josh’s card. Both of these players take responsibility for this foolishness.
@@jamessurr7757 the thing is was the hands your talking about live? I understand he was already all in but the only time another player flipped one of my cards was when he already mucked and I let them choose one
Why is everyone flaming Josh? J Dogg is clearly angling. Really scummy move when Josh seeing one of his card doesn't change anything, but him seeing one of Josh's cards will decide the hand. He is agreeing to play on a live stream for entertainment and instead he held up the game to whine at the floor.
It doesn’t matter if it changes anything. If they discussed showing each other’s cards and he flips one without showing his then J Dogg is in the right. If they didn’t and Josh flipped over a card without consent then I 100% support J Dogg for having the right to flip one of his cards. It’s not angling, he asked for it.
@@TheOnlyXenux the problem is ：this rat jdogg AGREEed to show one of his card while let josh CONSIDER show him one. josh never say u show me one the i ll show u one. he said u show me one then i ll consider show u one. he made a big mistake on playing And believeing a rat
@@liyexiang666 we can’t really hear what they said, but come on let’s be honest, who’s showing someone else their card in exchange of nothing? But then again, jdog should’ve realized that if John wasn’t willing to show him one card back he was prob bluffing
@@okiepokertraveler1718 How so? The action is done for him. The information is now irrelevant. They clearly had a discussion about flipping a card and then he did it and then the guy tries to get him taken out
Yeah seriously. Like i get it, don’t ever touch another players cards but Josh was already all in. So whether Josh knew one or even both of J dogs cards was completely irrelevant, he was all in and nothing was changing that. Josh hastily flipped over J Dog’s card just to know whether he was screwed or not and J Dog took that opportunity to try and get Josh kicked out which was a puss move IMO
What Josh did was inexcusable and he should have received a harsher penalty than one round. But the penalty for J dogg should be far more severe because: 1) j dogg is the one still to act and exposing Josh’s hand gives jdogg a freeroll with thousand of dollars on the line. Jdogg is the only person who can gain from seeing a card and he forcefully took advantage of situation by breaking the rules. 2) jdogg is intentionally breaking the rules in front of the floor after they gave their ruling, and basically giving a big FU to the floor person and the establishment when he flips over Josh’s card. The discussions during the hand make this situation awkward, but what’s clear is that there was some sort of miscommunication. From the floor’s perspective, they can’t rule on those sort of agreements, esp if one party claims they said they’ll “consider” showing their card. Not at all condoning Josh’s actions. I think he should have been kicked out. But he had nothing to gain from seeing a card, it was pretty clear that he was drunk and was just trying to spice things up for the stream based on his comment right before he flipped over the card. Jdogg had everything to gain and intentionally broke the rules to gain an edge in a $2500-$4k pot. I think the floor should have given a harsher penalty to josh and made the consequences clear to jdogg if he revealed josh's card because his action is still pending. By failing to do so, that made jdogg decide to take advantage of the soft 1 round penalty to gain an edge in this big pot. This can NEVER be allowed to happen. What baffles me the most is the decision to allow j dogg to keep playing on the stream after this hand, without penalty, after he defiantly broke the rules in front of the floor after he didn't like the ruling. This sets up a really bad precedent b/c players need to be able to rely on the floor to impose proper penalties. Saying they won’t allow the “ill show if you show” situation is only a reactionary move, and they won’t be able to prevent all conflicts from arising in the future. As players, we need to be able to count on a proper resolution if someone breaks the rules and does something to gain an unfair edge to win the pot.
@@raz3rpup nah this is not tony g style banter angling. this is straight up cheating. if the floorman had a spine it wouldnt even work,he would lose the pot that shouldve been a snap call win, and get banned permanently. so yea, not such a smart move by jfag
He went all in to be fair. It doesn't really matter if he sees a card at this point. To me jdog wanted to see one of his cards. 100% shouldn't flip an opponents card but nether should jdog, difference is jdog gained an advantage because of it.
But we have to understand that most of the guys there are not in that table just to merely play. Most if not all of them are there to earn money. Poker is a game where you capitalize on any mistake made by your opponent. He just did what hes got to do. If you do not know the rules why play the game? If we see josh" action to be legal then, him flipping josh" card should be legal too.
He was all in. The other players hand that has a decision to make doesn’t matter anymore. No more action can be made by the all in player. Sounds more like jdog angled this guy and then when he flipped the card made a big deal about it.
Not necessary true, because josh could still try and use words to play this situation. If J dogg wanted to flip over his hand first to show josh, and try and pick up a tell from josh. Then whatever, but josh should have never touched J dogg‘s cards. If this was a ufc fight, and the fighters say to each other, if you let me poke your eyes, and I’ll consider letting you poke mine too. Now, does that give you the right to poke your opponent’s eyes ?
@@kyth8964 is this a ufc fight? He told him to pick a card. Obviously there would be no reason for Josh to expose a card when the only person left to make a decision is jdog. Jdog angled this situation and targeted someone that English wasn’t their first language. He should have chosen to call or fold and not grabbed Josh’s cards because everyone said he couldn’t.
@@moremilesmoreproblems6330 "English is not my first language" is a bad excuse, if you know the language well enough to play in the first place, you understand what's being said.
I think it is pretty clear that J Dogg was the only one who would gain any sort of information with that deal. Who cares what J Dogg has once, Josh is already all in. He was hoping that he could corner Josh on this and I guess it worked out for him. While Josh shouldn't be touching any of his opponent's cards (regardless of what his opponent tells him), he gains no benefit from doing this. J Dogg was hoping to trick him into the exact spot that he got into, and because he was unable to deduce that Josh rarely has him beat there, he wanted the easy way out. I hope that Josh learned from this hand to ignore try hards on the river who always pipe up with "show if I fold", "show me one?" etc. J Dogg had everything to gain and even played the sympathy card as if the 9c influenced Josh's decision. Ad then arrogantly called the all-in, once he flipped over one of Josh's cards making it one of the easiest calls when he is sitting there with a flush and seeing an offsuit card. J Dogg is the kind of player that I root for to lose.
The proof lies with the man who uncaps his card voluntarily, and separates them for his opponent to easily pick one of them...then...the angle begins, and a goofball becomes trapped.
Not an issue if Josh sticks to his word and flips one of his own too, but you can see his facial expression at 4:08 and there is no way Josh would flip. So instead he plays dumb, immediately lying and claiming he didn't flip the card. Josh snap jams all in, repping a higher backdoor flush than 8,9. That's only a snap call if you're a fish. If Josh won't show one his own as they were discussing before floor was called then he gets what he deserves. Only a 1 round penalty, a price anyone would consider worth paying if it were normalised as sound decision making by Josh. He can still table talk, he still has influence whether the chips are in or not
Nice angle "J DOGG" ya "D BAGG" Also wtf was the floor doing?! Makes a ruling, player says basically "no fuck off" flips the card and just bully's the pot out of the situation?? Floor should of told him to shut up, ended the hand and chopped the pot or enforced whatever penalty that was ruled.
Yeah, this is a huge angle taking advantage of Josh's naivety - the lesson: play stupid games win stupid prizes. How did flipping the card affect D Bagg: it did not. Bad decision by floor.
Every hand you show gives information to your opponents. You're not allowed to flip over opponents mucked and folded cards, so it doesn't matter that he's all in, it's not allowed. You never touch any cards but your own. The floor should have disqualified him, if they don't want to dead Josh's hand for that then i think JDogg is well in to flip one of his cards. 1 round sit out would be a punishment worth taking every single hand, so why not have everyone doing it after they go all in?
Josh shouldn't have touched the card, clearly. However "J DOGG" is the baddie here. He is clearly angling to get info because he didn't know what to do with his hand.
This was a very poor floor ruling. You don’t make a ruling to turn over someone’s hand. Table etiquette agreements between players should never be enforced by floor, in this case all he said was he would consider it. Josh out of line for turning over the card himself but this is not out of the norm at card rooms, it’s then a little scummy to weasel out of showing one, but that’s for the players to enforce and deal with. Jdogg was the one trying to get information by showing one of his cards and slowing the game down. Most good floors would simply force jdogg to make a decision and then give josh a stern talking to and maybe a ban. Players would likely shame josh and never make bets with him in the future. Josh could redeem himself by chipping the pot with jdogg but this was piss poor handling overall. Amateur hour
I agree that side agreements between players shouldn't be enforced by the floor, so in that case Josh's hand should have been dead, no further conversation required. Surely you agree that turning over someone else's cards goes beyond any agreement they may have had, no? It's not the wild west where you play poker is it? Guys flipping opponents cards, the house shrugging it off saying "we don't enforce stuff, you guys have to work it out. Please use knives or fists only, we have a no gun policy here at wild west poker room."
@@cvanunen Josh touched both cards several times when he was deciding which card he wanted to see, if Jdogg had a problem with that he could have said something then or protected his cards, whether it was Josh or Jdogg flipping the card is irrelevant to me. Josh was never going to show his card no matter what Jdogg's card was, in my opinion he entered the agreement in bad faith which is why I would ban him.
@@cvanunen jdogg knew what he was doing. He could have easily stopped josh,but instead he laid his cards out to be turned over, watched josh play eenie meenie miney mo, knowing he could call the floor and maybe get his hand thrown out. This is 100 percent an angle by jdogg and anyone defending this garbage shouldn't be playing
It's pretty clear Josh was given permission to flip over one card, and if he did indeed say he "might" turn a card over depending on what he sees, then the only douchebag in this video is the scarf-indoors guy. He's the only one who's gaining any actual information, considering Josh was already all-in. So, for the scarf-indoors guy, who goes by the lame name JDogg, to try and claim a $3500 pot risk-free or to get to see one of Josh's card is a tool move and for him to demand it is even more telling. The fact that Josh no longer wanted to show a card after seeing a heart is a tell, snap-call and move on. But, instead scarf-boy starts claiming "he can't just flip over one of my cards" when he clearly took off his card protector and spread them so Josh could pick one and then manipulates a free look at one of his opponent's cards, hence an easy call for the pot, because he's JDouche, the angleshooter who wears scarves indoors.
It was obvious in the vid that they had both agreed to let Josh see a card. But he should have pointed to the card and let JDogg flip it. This wouldn't even be contested if it went down like that. They were both angling, but you can't break that most obvious rule of poker, even if agreed upon.
Excactly. The vibe I got was that Jdogg was knew excactly what he was doing while the asian guy tried to have some fun. Its very clear only JDogg could benefit from seeing their opponents card in this hand, so he is a real fking douchebag for demanding to see one. Massive nit too for not absolutely snap calling the river bet anyways, overall disgusting tbh and Im not even kidding.
@@Matttimmswins the guy josh wasn’t angling at all he had nothing to gain from flipping over the other goofs card. He couldn’t act any further as he was already all in lol
Thats a clear angleshoot from J Dogg. He should be ejected from the game, nasty personality. Acting all up when it has 0 influence on the outcome. Besides he has the easiest call in that spot.. hes never folding. What a douche
Josh messed up... what is he a noob.... never ever touch another man's or females chips or cards.... that's how you get shot in the wild wild west movies jeje
How about a different perspective. JDog is clearly angling hard here. Despite the conversation, he allows him to turn a card over knowing he’ll be able to freeroll a dead hand or exactly what played out. There’s literally zero benefit to Josh for JDog showing both cards and JDog knows that. IMO he took full advantage of the situation because he didn’t want to face a “tough decision.” The round penalty seemed fair as JDog wasn’t the one betting and Josh didn’t randomly flip the card up. So yeah, final verdict is that this was a hard angle. P.S this is a fist pump snapcall by the 89hh anyway.
@@Huyle18 it was very stupid of him to flip the card, I'm not saying it wasnt (I honestly don't have an idea what he was thinking when he did it). They're both in the wrong but j dogg saw an opportunity to use the situation to his favor and did so.
Wow, I have to disagree with the comments here! Josh is already all in, so J Dogg can only gain information by observing his reaction. Cant hear what they said but probably Josh thought they agreed on, you show me one and I may show you one. Miscomunication and it was not like Josh just flipped over his card, JDogg let him do it. Still stupid, but I dont see a reason to vilify Josh
The verbal agreement they had is irrelevant to the actions that were taken. The only question for the floor should've been "is it okay that Josh flipped over JDoggs card?" If yes, then the hand goes on. If not, decide if the pot is chopped or if it goes to JDogg.
A lot of videos try to create drama by using misleading titles but this is truly one of the craziest things I have ever seen at a poker table. That wouldn't even fly in my weekly $30 game. Unreal.
Ehhh i disagree, i play some alot of homegames. Its def clickbait. Like him flipping the card over does not change or effect the hand at all. It just barely effects future hands if they play together. Like they had to be semi friends. Why would u let some guy touch ur cards. Its ur job to protect ur hand.
@@skrufy11 There is a huge difference between a home game and playing at a casino/card room it's called etiquette and general respect for property (however temporary) to not touch or take what is not yours. Yes there was some sort of agreement but the other bloke also tried to renege on his part of the agreement which is just bad form. Would of asked this gentlemen to leave and to not return in the future too much of a pain those kinds of people.
@Brian Elizardo I was at foxwoods about 10 days ago and some old white hair guy at my table was about to beat a lawyer's ass after the lawyer showed up to the table n told the guy to shut the f up like 2 minutes after he sat down lol. Night before some shi went down too but wasn't at my table. Gets heated in the mean streets of 1/2 at foxwoods
@@TheOmgWtfLawl i agree with u, but im just saying, the title shoulda been, "nit tanks with the nuts, and 1 card is flipped over that doesnt affect the action". Not as crazy or big of a deal as i thought it was gonna be
@@skrufy11 9 high flush is hardly the nuts, especially for a pretty substantial amount of money. I think he would have called anyway but I've seen people tank for minutes with a lot easier call than this. Either way, touching another players cards may be ok at your home game but it isn't at mine and even more not allowed at a casino
Kind of seems like an overreaction. He didn't do it to gain an advantage. It seems like he was just confused and thought they were having fun. In the end, it really didn't negatively effect Mr Dogg.
I thought the floor was correct in his ruling, just shouldve held his ground and told DBagg that if he flips joshs’ card over his hand is dead. First card flip shouldnt affect action in any way, where as the second one will give the other one a clear advantage. Make rulings based on whats fair not what some angleshooter wants and says is ”equal” or technically correct.
Clearly an angle by Jdogg. josh doesnt get any information by seeing jdoggs cards because josh is all in. jdogg gets A LOT of information by seeing joshs cards. PLUS jdogg agreed to let josh turn one over and then he was like: hE cAnT jUsT tUrN oVeR oNe oF mY cArDs
Statistically he gains nothing. But this poker where people fold their hands over being bluffed. Any information you get can be used to cause your opponent to fold. So I disagree that just because he went all in that it doesn't matter.
Flawed logic at its finest. There’s already a pot. Neither player knows what each holds. If Josh had an Ace of Hearts and Jdog flipped that then he no doubt would have bluffed himself into folding. It’s only because the moment Josh flipped the card you can literally see the look on his face that he decides to back pedal and not be a man of his word (or in this case action). Poker is all about information and misinformation so saying one has all to gain and the other all to lose is, not to knock you but a very below average IQ thought process.
Josh made an honest mistake and apologized. JDogg apparently gave Josh permission to flip one card by removing his card protector and spread his cards. This is just angle shoot then baby cry. Josh is the good guy, and JDogg is the bad guy.
J Dogg is a hypocrite. Wtf he’s never folding his hand in that spot. Such a shady character. He tells Josh he will show him a card, Action is on him, so it has no fucking relevance to the outcome of the hand. He is a conman, I can smell it from here.
@@Max-bf8uf easy 4 you to say you can see his cards. Dude jamed all in for over 2000 bucks on the river, which was 2×bigger than the pot. After all there are 4 other potential fushes bigger
It definitely felt like an angle. Like he was pretty sure he had the best hand but could try to leverage this as a forfeit from his opponent just in case he was up against a higher flush. He knows he's never folding in that spot.
I mean if Josh went all in and there was only the tankers action left, it wasn't that such a big deal. He apologized for touching his opponents card and self banned himself from there. No need to throw dirt on his name.
Cause yall never made a mistake at a table LOL he was wrong and he admitted it and apologized. What do you want him to do? LOL go back in time and fix it? Didn't he lose the pot anyways?
Let this be a huge lesson, once you're all in it's just best to keep your mouth shut and not move. the fact he didnt snap call is more than enough to not move. and if he starts talking to you DONT RESPOND the more confident you look the more folds you will get. they know the price to see your cards and free shouldnt be an option.
The guy who flipped the card was already all in. It’s super common for a guy facing an all in bet to just flip over his cards as he thinks, since there is absolutely no advantage gained for a player who is already all in to know what his opponent holds. Super big angle from j dogg for sure.
Well no. It definetly helps to know if an opponent is deciding between a high or big hand. You will definetly adjust your poker face accordingly. Anyone saying Josh didnt gain advantage knowing the card since hes already all in is special kind of naive.
As someone that occasionally turns one of my own cards face up and engages in table talk when heads up, I have to say that the general reception to this is pretty pathetic. J DOGG doesn't protect his cards and is cool with what seems to be happening until he isn't. Two way street, Josh shouldn't be getting flamed. If you are going to be a nit, at least let the fun players have fun.
And I will add to this. J-Dogg has 2 demands and neither one of them are valid. Josh is not obligated to show either one of his cards. Josh's hand is Not Dead by any means. And J Dogg is not entitled to turn over one of his cards. When he did that he should be kicked out of the game.
J Dogg is lying. After, Josh thought they agreed on flipping, Josh then flipped over one of his opponents cards. J Dogg didn’t protest right away or even become outraged. J Dogg then says, now i get to pick one. He then points at a card. So by his own words and actions and inactions, he did agree to Josh’s terms. Then after Josh said something or when he didnt flip over one of his own cards, J Dogg was all up in arms. J Dogg was upset Josh didn’t hold his end of the deal. He was not originally upset of Josh flipping one of his card, but then he used that as the reason for his outrage. At this point now, J Dogg is being dirty and angling Josh so he can make an easy call by forcing the floor to call Josh’s hand dead or flipping over one of his cards. So in the end, he did make the floor force Josh to hold up to his end of the deal. So both made blunders. Josh’s 1st mistake was talking, while J Dogg was tanking. Now he talked himself into a bad deal and a bad situation where he was gonna lose the hand. Next mistake Josh made was refusing to flip one of his cards over. J Dogg’s mistake was misrepresenting the outrage and lying about himself not agreeing to the deal when he clearly did by his words and actions. I want my damn like. Also like if you agree with my analysis. I want top comment. 🙃
J Dogg's actions after the card flip show very poor character, whereas Josh just made a mistake. Josh didn't stand to gain much (if anything) from the card flip, especially given his holding (it would be obvious he was bluffing if he showed a card), while J Dogg stood to gain plenty. In this case, the entire pot.
Josh flipped the card over himself. thats on josh not jdog. if they had an agreement thats fine but josh should have had jdog flip the card not himself.
it's unbelievable all the people siding with Josh. They agreed to flip each's cards and once he saw the heart Josh played dumb like he didn't agree. Jdogg was asking the floor for the hand to be killed. You think he's ever been in a situation before where someone flipped his cards over and he was going to use it as an advantage? If they called it dead then Josh gains a huge advantage by not losing 1700 plus. I don't think Jdogg is getting away from a call there but at that point he hadn't done anything wrong so he should call the floor and understand if he has options.
I play poker for a living, every single day. If the floor ruled that his only penalty was sitting out of a CASH GAME for an orbit , I would have snap flipped over one of his cards too and then just taken the orbit penalty while scooping in the pot
If all they give is a one orbit penalty someone could do this every single time they are in a big hand. One orbit is not much but having some massive info before making a call for a few thousand would be worth it to most players.
There's no need for declaring Josh's hand dead since he gained no advantage. Just let the hand play out and then enforce penalties. On the other hand JDogg spun this drama into massive advantage for him and HIS hand should be immediately dead once he flipped Josh's card (because he was still last to act,thus gained advantage). That's a ruling in fairness of the game, JDogg used the confusion to cheat his way into winning the pot. JDogg is a whiney cheat,end of story. And the floorman just watched another human get robbed and did nothing.
The guy who is already all in got screwed even tho he is suppose to not flip others cards. He is all in and has nothing to gain. The guy who flips a card and calls is even worse. Disgusting.
great video! How about showing us what happened after the hand? Did the dude leave or get kicked out? You can't really give him a penalty in a cash game right? If he's forced to sit a round it doesn't hurt him in anyway.
Clearly Jdogg didn't object until he realized Josh didn't want to show. He was touching Jdoggs cards prior to flipping it with no objection. This type of gamesmanship is good for the game vs stoic boring play. Backdoor flush with less than a pot size bet should have been a snap call and no drama.
Josh is wrong by touching other players card, but is pure angle by J dogg!!!! 100% Where is no benefit to Josh if he sees J doggs card, and a lot info for J dogg to see one Josh’s. There is no way Josh would agree to show one his card too, just does not make any sense.
The floor made a ruling of one round penalty for flipping someone else’s card instead of making him turn one over himself… so instead of arguing with the floor id just flip josh’s card over myself and sit out a round along side him lol…and also… WTF is he even tanking for… thats a snap call on that run out and action… if it ends up being flush over flush then its just a cooler but you cant ever fold there
Exactly. So I guess if the floor is saying one round for touching someone’s card he’s leaving it open for others with a hard decision sayin I’ll just turn my opponents card over and make my decision than. Needs to be a stiffer outcome
I mean I'd argue it's a very different thing whether you flip over someone's cards when you're already all in vs. when action is on you, so I wouldn't assume that the penalties would be the same
@@leoistdoof it is a very different situation for sure.. but they apparently agreed to showing one card each and the idiot with nothing to gain and everything to lose flipped over the card of the person still waiting to act cementing the agreement. Its a very specific situation that would never happen again in a million years
@@porkys1029 I'm certainly not an expert, but I would have said that such an agreement is against the rules and therefore invalid. As tournament director I'd definitely give a hefty penalty to Josh, but I can't see how you could rule his hand as dead (given that he's already all-in and I don't see a huge advantage) and I can't see how you can rule the other card to be flipped over, especially if there is disagreement that it was agreed upon (and obviously Josh did not mean to agree to show one of his cards, that would have been suicidal). But I'd be curious to get a more definite answer (ideally citing some TD rules)
@J Clearly it was an angle by JDogg. What advantage does it give Josh to turn it over? Absolutely none. He made a mistake,for sure,..but the dick in this scenario is JDogg. He shouldn’t have even needed to call the floor or turn over Josh hand to make that call, based on the action.
How is Jdogg a dick? Other players can't break rules of the game just because they are all in. I would never play in that room again after that floor decision.
Ok as a Pitboss in a underground game, theirs no way to penalize the player in the Live Hand. He flipped over the opponents card while being all in so he has no more action, he could flip both his opponents cards he’s still all in action doesn’t change make your choice either call or fold. Players turn over there OWN cards when someone rips it on them To get live reads. player who turned over his opponents cards is ejected/disqualified from the game. If you turn over your opponents card or cards when it’s on you to Act. hand is DEAD. Your ejected.
Yeah I would agree with that. The guy to act had no right to flip over the other guys hand even though the asian guy was wrong in flipping his cards he had no benefit from seeing the one card that’s why the house ruled a penalty after the hand and the guy got dirty because he was in a tuff spot but he was calling no matter what that’s why he made a big deal over it it really wasn’t that serious though
Idk whats worse... dude angling or being so bad that he was really contemplating a call there when he judt backdoored a flush. Thats never a fold. If you both backdoored it then so be it but that hand was not played as if anyone had a flush
Oddly enough I had this happen to me once. The guys that run the games were Mobsters they ran pretty big games out of rented air BNB properties. I said to the other player "wtf are you doing now you know part of my hand" and this happened on the turn where nobody was all in or anything he had just called my bet when he did it. The guys grabbed him picked him up off the seat and threw the guy out. They slid his whole stack to me which was probably around $1500. I took a brownie ($100) out of my pocket and tried to hand it to the person who threw him out but he refused to take it so I gave it to the lovely lady bringing us drinks and food. He said he's never seen that in 15 years running games and that he was sorry and didn't want me to leave or not come play anymore. I told him it's all good not his fault it happened. People like this should never be allowed back at a Poker game again.
This was NOT an angle. The bottom line is, Josh was not expecting Jdogg to be tanking with a flush. Therefore, he agreed for both parties to see a card. When he saw the heart, Josh redacted the deal because he HAD to redact the deal. Jdogg was understandably upset at that. Also, it is incredibly reckless to grab another players card and turn it over, especially when you're already all in. You get no information out of the deal and you're putting your hand at risk. For me, this should be a lesson learned for Josh. The safe thing to do when you're all in is stare at the table and not say a word until the other player either calls or folds. Period!
In essence, I agree with you. But it depends on what you want the other player to do. Josh wanted J Dogg to fold, so this whole charade was designed to give "strong hand" vibes. Josh was never going to flip his own card and he knew that from the start. The fact that J Dogg even let Josh flip his card says that he had a hand. So this arrangement never really benefits Josh. Josh's plan was to see J Dogg's card and then act as though he had J Dogg beat. Then hope that J Dogg picks up on it and folds. I strongly suspect that if Josh also had a flush that was not the nuts, he might have been less animated, less cocky and maybe, as you say, stare straight at the table to give nothing away.
Misunderstanding, commentator literally instigated the most I have possibly ever seen. Josh's action was done so it's not like he knew what he had before he put him all in.
Agreed, this commentator feels very comfortable babbling with confidence on a situation he even admits to not fully understanding. In his own words, "get him the hell out of here".
Josh's mistake is bad, but J dogg's behviour is actually worse! Josh should be evicted from this round, the fact that Dogg asked his condition to the game, that was actually profitable for him, isn't poker. From this moment, the game should stop.
Seemed like in the end Jdog flipped over a card without the floor giving him permission. Jdog needs to be banned for a long time and Josh needs a shorter ban in my opinion. What josh did was wrong, but it didn't affect anything. What Jdog did was more wrong and clearly an angle.
J dogg’s logic was if the floor isn’t going to penalize josh in this hand for flipping over cards than jdogg can do the same thing to josh. Once he heard the floor man say no penalty he applied the logic to himself which I believe to be fair
@@youknowthedrill99 Floors exist for a reason buddy to create clear rulings. You think it'll really end up well if people can just disregard rulings because they subjectively believe their own form of 'justice' to be "fair"? Get a grip lmao
@@youknowthedrill99 no he was angling and taking advantage of the situation without waiting for an official ruling from the floor. Josh had poor etiquette but had verbal permission from douchebag to see a card, which douchebag had uncapped and placed in front of Josh. You have poor situational awareness.
Just on principal, anybody who wears a mask and then TAKES IT DOWN TO TALK should have some sort of social penalty. Every now and I still see people wearing a mask in their car with their windows up. COME ON PEOPLE!!!! Americans are supposed to be pioneers and trailblazers, not cowering in fear because the media WANTS us to " be afraid, very afraid". Snap out of it, folks!!!
if all josh was facing was a 1 round penalty for turning over someones cards, then hell yeah i'll take a 1 round penalty too for 4k chips. bad ruling by the floor. if missing one round is the penalty then i'd just be flipping everyones cards over during a big hand. dont ever touch another players card for any reason ever in an active hand.
@@ethanruiz3022 Josh was all in. Him knowing the other guys hand doesnt change anything. The nit was angling because hes scared money clearly. He clearly told him to pick one and then tried to act like they agreed to show each others cards.
Finessed. Plain and simple. He wanted to make his decision as easy as possible and he ended up achieving his goal. Josh is all in and his action cant change. Doesnt matter if he sees jdoggs cards or not. But it does matter other way around. Someone should have stood up and stopped JDogg from finessing there
J Dogg’s personality is insufferable. Josh’s action is complete, and in a game of gentleman, there needs to not be so much back and forth holding the entire game up. J Dogg is the type of guy to say “hey he showed that guy his hand you need to show me too!” I hope Josh doesn’t have to deal with too may YT idiots… I’m inviting Josh to my game
And that’s why the ruling is the way it was. Josh is good for the game. He’s action. I’m not sure if the same can be said for JDogg. I play with players that are the show one, show all types. I’m the opposite. I just don’t care. I’m fun enough at the table that most people show me their hands without even asking me. The poker gods tend to reward players who aren’t insufferable and are just trying to have a good time. Jdogg made a big fuss over an issue that didn’t really matter, as Josh was all in. Jdogg was able to see that his rivered flush could beat Josh after turning over one of Josh’s cards. If I was Josh and Jdogg, I would just refuse to play on the same table as each other and move on
Am I missing something? This shouldn’t even be a question. You flip over an opponents cards in a game of poker, you lose automatically. It doesn’t need a separate penalty. The penalty is that you lose the hand.
Uh no...he is already all in flipping over the card doesn't impact anything...the room can take actions after the hand but it shouldn't during...on the other hand as soon as JDogg turned over Josh's cards his hand should be dead. Weak floor didn't help here.
@@TheDjcarter1966 j dogg didn’t call yet. He still had to act. Josh being all in doesn’t mean he can flip JDoggs cards. If Josh wanted he could start hollywooding somehow after seeing the card and influence JDogg. That’s cheating.
@@wouldntyouliketoknow1477 I've seen people flip over someones hand after the hand was completed (almost just as outrageous), Should they automatically lose the hand for doing so?? Just flipping someones hand in and of itself is not wrong especially if given permission to (which josh clearly thought he had).
I’m with Josh on this one. The only thing he did wrong was touch his cards. The Commentator kept talking over them so we couldn’t hear there conversation but you can clearly hear everyone at the table side with Josh when asked if he said “I might consider turning my cards over if JDog shows his. Josh was already all in, even if he saw both his cards he couldn’t have done anything but pray he didn’t get called. If I’m JDog that’s still a EZ call even if Josh didn’t show one of his cards.
I might consider if JDog shows his, Is not the same as grabbing someone else’s card and flipping it over. If there is no penalty for doing this he could do it every round.
How tf do u even fix u mouth to say “I side with Josh on this one”??? How u see no problem in saying I might consider flipping my cards over if j dogg shows one of his, then continues to personally, without being told to, just flips said player card, is beyond me!!!
Okay flipping someone’s card is OOL but he was already all in! It doesn’t matter if he sees the card, this is some playful shit we do at house games. Obviously no place for this in the casino but jdog causing a scene made him look pretty weak IMO just call you’re not folding bd flush. Also the announcer lol
Completely agree. Josh seeing the card doesn’t change the action at all. Penalty was the right call. When Josh flips one over back, his hand should have been killed
Yeah, this has been twisted way out of context. J-Dog had a protector on his cards for the entire hand. He uncapped his cards, and then set the cards next to each other in front of him. Also Josh was hovering his hand over J-Dog's cards and touched them a few times before he flipped a card over, and J-Dog had ZERO issue with it. J-Dog was under the impression he could flip one of Josh's cards if he showed one of his cards, which makes no sense at all because J-Dog would gain a ton of info but Josh gains nothing since he's already all-in and has no further action. J-Dog only took issue and began to complain when Josh refused to also show one of his cards. Should Josh have physically flipped over J-Dog's cards, of course not. It's quite obvious though that J-Dog allowed Josh to do it, and then threw a fit after the fact when he realized the agreement wasn't what he initially thought it was.
@@michaelkrell9794 Right, Josh is all-in and thus has no further action in the hand. Seeing one of J-Dog's cards doesn't give action changing information to him. J-Dog just threw a fit after the fact because the deal wasn't what he thought it was. J-Dog thought Josh was dumb enough to show him a card, and got pissed when he realized Josh wasn't that stupid. lol
What if he planned on mucking and didn't want him seeing what his cards were?!? How is that hard to understand or need explained? Don't ever touch other peoples cards. This would be out of line even had he mucked and Josh flipped one over before the dealer gathered it in the muck.. he received free info no matter how small for future spots by looking at a card. But doing it while the hand is still in play?!? You guys can't be serious
Guy was WAY out of line. I’ve never ever even heard of anyone ever reaching over and turning another players cards. I agree, he should have been removed from the table.
Iv seen it many times and josh didn’t care he was playing victim because he was trying to either get free information or kill his hand the guy should have said ok my hand is dead. He was a nit who wanted him to flip his cards over he didn’t bother making sure You see one of mine i see of yours anytime that happens a Person showing first double checks but he said and whispered flip it flip it he didn’t wanted the drunk guy to flip his card so he try to say I get to see one or his hAnd is dead he was trying to take free money. The faxt he used that line don’t touch my cards he hands never Went to protect his hand also he admitted in his post he knew it made no sense for other guy so who was angling. If anything he should have flipped his hand and showed his flush to see his reaction to get a read. Even after floor man made ruling he was gonnA argue his way out of hand . A real person who have been mad for going back on word but he should have got back in to focus and make the call as at first I assumed he wouldn’t be able to lay it down and make the call but dude can’t afford a bad beat he was prob gonna fold on live steam and still look bad. No reason he should have argued that long when the person got no gain. And if a heart flipped does he fold or in the same position. He was scared money and everyone was gonna call him a nit.
who cares if he sees the card, he is all in already... floor should recognize that and make him take his action without flipping a card. JDOG is the one who looks shady in this spot
You go to a local casino? If you do, try doing this to other strangers, record their reactions, I genuinely want to see whether you make it to posting their reactions on youtube, since it's usually not long before theirs always that one person you don't know that ends up getting their point across lol. But your most likely just a homebody.
JDouche is in the wrong here, yes Josh made a huge mistake but JDouche was waaaaaaay out of line here, probably one of the worst angles I've ever seen.
Haha he saw that heart and immediately tried to pull a bluff on an agreement they made .. what ppl will do for money lol .. as soon as he saw that heart he knew he had to try to not let his cards be seen lmao 💀
because there's no more action for him to take, he was given verbal affirmation to pick a card, and he would consider letting jdog pick a card in return@@BalotelliFan713
I'm on Josh's side here. Of course he should have never flipped over the card but it was a clear misunderstandindg + he technically gained no advantage in doing so. Hand should have just played out normally from there imo. Don't like the way JDog is insisting on Josh showing on of his cards as well.
Omg I totally missed that Josh was already all in? Did they say that? That changed my whole perception of what just happened! Hmmm this went from egregious to this isn’t a big deal at all.
For sure.. the initial flipped card meant nothing. It would make no sense for josh to show his card while jdogg still needs to make the call. Especially since it was a bluff. Sure, dont touch his cards but wtf it is such a lopsided agreement that only benefited jdogg
Complete overreaction to this hand. The guy with the flush needs to snap call this river shove and hand is over. Fair play to Josh for apologising for this error.
one of the worst floor calls ever!! for half a second i thought he was going to do the right thing. Josh definitely needs a big penalty (banned for 1 week or something like that) but in the spirit of the game, the hand needed to be played out in the best way possible that keeps the integrity of the game intact. Showing one of josh's card destroyed the integrity of the game and rewarded the angle shooting of JDogg. I hate players like JDogg who have no honor and floor people like this one who got bullied into making a horrible call.
That’s wild as a dealer I would have tried to stop the player from Turing over their card at all no matter the discussion. And once he found out the penalty for him was a fucking round I would have reached over and tabled one of his cards if I was the player. How gross I’ve never seen anything like that.
Josh is all in. Jdogg can show his hand while thinking anyway and ofcourse he's far from folding.. he might but the chance is slim.. Josh flip it over but actually it doesn't matter coz he's all in... This is taking advantage of a player you already have an edge with.
JDog took advantage of Josh's mistake. JDog should be ashamed of himself. He should have just played his hand and made his decision. Josh's action, wrong though it was, made absolutely NO difference. If TCH live let Jdog turn Josh's card over as it seems was the floor's decision, that too was a terrbile mistake. TCH should refund Josh if you ask me. You can't let a dishonest arguement like the one Jdog made win the day.
you are missing the point. AT NO STAGE, should Josh ever flip over his opponents cards, ever. The fact they had an 'agreement' or whatever is irrelevant. The floor made a terrible decision here. At worst, JDogg is an angle shooter, but thats a hard sell.
@@Simon-nv5zj I can't tell if you agree or not. I am saying the floor made a bad decision by giving a guy yet to act free info. I am also saying Josh did wrong, but it made no difference as he had no action left to take. You say I am missing the point then agree with me. I don't understand.
@@Declan4253 Mate, at no point in any decent casino or poker game, are you allowed to flip over your opponents cards. Whether it made any difference or not is completely irrelevant. Josh made by far the biggest mistake here, whilst JDogg only followed the ruling of the floor. The floorman also made ridiculously bad rulings as well ,and it all started with not declaring Josh's hand to be dead. The fact he was 'all-in' has nothing to do with it.
100% agree, even if there's a conversation/agreement on something let the other player do it for you when it involves their cards/chips/etc and proxy through the dealer
I was about to roast Josh because this is absolutely egregious. But, he owned up to it. We’ve all been there bluffing in a big pot, and given he looked like a complete ass but said he made the mistake and apologized for it, I want to give him props for giving a public apology.
His apology was NOTHING more than damage control after backlash and seeing how bad he made himself look... he even deliberately lied about flipping over the card lmao if you're gonna lie at least lie about the agreement you thought was made. He deserves all the roasting that he gets
Narrator: “I have no idea what’s going on.”
Also narrator: talks over the complete explanation of what happened from the players and the floor.
That dude needs a penalty
I actually said out loud "stop talking so we can hear them" but narrator didn't listen
The person talking over the game needs to stfu like anybody asked him anything. The situation bad enough and he's like that's it I'm gonna kill a player like WHAT 😂 talk about blowing up a situation even further then it had to be.
That's all I ever say when I listen to narrators. None of them know when to stfu.
@@redmatrix We heard you the first time.
In what world would Josh agree to show the hand he is at risk of getting called with, win or lose? Literally defeats the point of the game lol
The world where he chose to flip a card over himself? They don’t know what each has, only until Josh realised he’s going up against a potential flush is when he backpedaled. Get real, keep to your word.
I worked in poker for 7 years as a dealer/floor/td and I never saw anyone do this without agreeing to it first lmao that’s wild
They did agree to it that's why the guy spread his cards and said pick one
@@natew8882 yeah you can tell by the player on the rights reaction that he was definitely in agreement. The complete look of shock and him calling the floor was further proof he was ok with what was going on. It’s not like there’s an entire video about it.
@@natew8882 yeah when you say pick one, it's usually for the player to still turn over their own card, you don't touch someone else's cards or it's a straight ban
@@genapp3603 I think it could go either way. I have played thousands and thousands of hours of No Limit Hold'em and it just depends on the situation and the players and what they agree to. I will say though that surely when you have an agreement to expose one of your cards it really doesn't matter who turns it over and it usually is the choice of the other person. I don't think that Josh did anything wrong. First and foremost it's every player's responsibility to protect their hand. When he spreads his cards and allows Josh to turn one over he could have stopped him at any point and he did not.
@@natew8882 you don't think Josh did anything wrong hahaha that's enough from you then
would be so much more entertaining if Josh was actually bluffing with Ace of heart blocker and the guy flipped over the Ace and folded lmao
Best comment here!
Oh that would have been absolutely priceless (edit: well, I suppose "priceless" is a poor way to put it)
That would have been justice.
😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣
That would be amazing lmao
The look on Josh's face when he flips the card over and see its a heart he knew immediately
He had to have known he was beat with that terrible bluff. That's probably why he did it. Was probably hoping it wouldve voided the hand
@stephenmerasty1420 probably get away with losing the pot instead on his all in.
if some dude flip over my card & i yell for a boss man to come over & remove that player ASAP for cheating
He flipped it over, and nothing was said because he told him to flip it, and when he saw a heart, he knew he was beat. I could hear what was exactly said prior to him flipping it over, but that's probably why the guy that was trying to bluff didn't want any of his cards flipped, because it would have been an auto call by the guy with the flush
if you wanna play the "I'll show you one of my cards" game during a hand, turn your card over yourself, don't ever tell anyone else at the table including the dealer that they can turn it over, I've never seen this happen in my entire life, never touch another players cards for any reason
It's grey area. Some casinos don't allowed to show one card agreement. Players alway argue over silly thing like this. Just like the Players all agree with bomb pot then one had pocket ace and goes all in. Then they all argue. The Players goes all in ot wrong. He can agree to it but the other guys made a motion so their chips stay in. Seen it happened all the time
I’ve seen it…. Annette obrestad was playing terrible. 1 of her usual “ it’s not me it’s everyone else’s fault “ type of day. She was 1st to act. She bet , I folded, so did many after me except the last guy. He was short stacked but not short enough to have you wondering when he’s going to say all in.
He called her raise. She went on a rant about why he called her. He said nothing. She didn’t like that. She walked over and looked at his cards and knocked his chips all over. Then claiming to the dealer and whoever else will listen that she didn’t do it.
I’ve never seen anyone be that rude at a poker table. All because he called her bet and short stack on chips. Only Vanessa selbst comes close to that rudeness. Both are pathetic.
after assessing the situation, The words exchanged caught on tape: Josh got verbal confirmation after asking to flip dogg's hand and consider flipping one of josh's...josh is fine. though bad etiquette in general. Who the hell would not snap call a backdoor flush O_O
J dogg petty af and has some issues in real life that could attribute to that.
Well as long as YOU say hes fine....
Agreed. 4 seat deserves a punch in the face for being such a super NIT and wasting everyone's time.
Nobody cares what you think, and your OPINION is irrelevant and obtuse
In China this happens a lot. They’re like 20 years behind the rest of the world on etiquette.
"Oh so the penalty is sitting out a round - I'm cool with that" What a baller move.
Yeah sitting out of a cash game. Harsh penalty.
Haha I play poker with a guy that when he flops the nuts but there are draws available (and pot was somewhat large preflop) he will shove all in say it and table his cards because he knows he will receive the orbit penalty but that he in most cases will also take the pot. He thinks it's a good trade off not to get drawn out on lol
@@sn00py_1 intentionally violating the rules because the penalty isn't strong enough, should bump the penalty to a dead hand (lose the pot).
The players hand is dead…
I've changed my mind on this one. I watched Bart Hanson's analysis, which seems pretty spot on. JDogg was angling here.
Pretty clear angle from Jdogg. Josh's decisions are finished and he has minimal, if anything to gain from seeing a card. Although he should get some type of punishment for flipping an opponents card. Very strange for him to agree to show a card with his exact holdings.
yep.....i know josh & play in this game....the whole idea made zero sense from his POV
Yeah he was using his victim mentality to try and angle the floor into a sure fire optimal decision. His pu$$y was extremely hurt for not too much reason. If it was the turn or something or the guy wasn’t all in that’s a different story.
JDogg hustled him hard
Definitely an angle what a rat
@@jcw8955 Damn near pimped out josh xD
This is just like watching live sports. Idiot announcers making assumptions about situations, when they have no clue what is going on. Love it
I was thinking the same thing like flag on the play fouled not over ruled but pay for what you did
well the dealer should have stepped in the moment he touch other other players cards. Also dead that guys hand for un sportsmanship i know this poker but you know the basic rules and if it was my game would politely ask that guy to never comeback to the game
how did the announcers make assumption they just said what the situation was.
@spin-rg9ib because the announcer is automatically blaming Josh when he has no clue what was discussed amongst the players. The guy is already flipping a card over gives him no advantage. The only advantage was to Jdogg that's why he's begging the floor to let him flip a card. Grimey move in my opinion.
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Josh was naive to fall into JDogg’s trap of turning over his cards. That was a stupid move on his part. However, the real angler here is JDogg. He is the one that stands to gain an advantage by turning over one of the cards. He made it seem as though Josh turned over his card without his permission, although it is clear that Jdogg let Josh do it.
Also, quite disappointed at the floor and the TCH team. The floor did not make a correct judgement at that point in time. The commentator and editor of this video were also very biased towards JDogg and made it seem like it is entirely Josh’s fault.
Finally someone who gets it
It only became an issue when Josh refused to flip one of his cards and made the vital mistake of touching someone else's card. The whole situation was fucking stupid. Yeah JDogg finessed the situation and had the most to gain by seeing 1 card due to Josh already being all-in. Like I said it's just dumb.
Jdogg can't be the angler. If they agreed to each see one of the others cards they should flip there own card over. If they were on opposite sides of table this wouldn't happen. Josh was the idiot for flipping the card. He knew when he saw the heart that Jdogg probably had the flush cause he was tanking the call. So now if he allows Jdogg to flip his card he knows he loses. So he's going to play dumb like it wasn't an agreement. He was already all in and had him covered so he says the flip really doesn't change anything. Josh is a scumbag. Got his hand stuck in cookie jar.
That's becuase it is entirely his fault. Don't touch other players cards. Period.
Its not an angle is called having a higher IQ than your opponent. JDogg made an agreement that Josh didn't want to hold up, very simple, quit trying to make it anything else
I think J Dogg handled the situation poorly. You could tell he saw this was a way he could "angle shoot" his opponent. What Josh did was stupid and he should have been given a penalty, but to be fair, it did not change the outcome of the hand whereas J Dogg flipping over Josh's card did. Side note: J Dogg tanking this long with a backdoor flush is a crime in itself.
Seriously. I cringed watching this. How the hell was that not a snap call? Then the tanking and angle shooting is egregious. Both of these guys are clowns
THIS!
Hmm let me check raise the flush draw I picked up on the turn and then fold the river to a jam when I hit 😂
LOVE this comment .... Exactly!!!!!!
Should've just shutup and let him fold.
Lol. The penalty for flipping a card is to sit out a round? Totally worth it. I need to pee anyways.
This just tells me this is a shit poker house, the floor ruling was terrible.
For one round? I gonna flip them any time i want 🤣
That makes 0 sense as a penalty in a cash game...lose a big blind and small blind?
@@dingaonhockey not even that because you don't pay when you are sitting out
J dogg was angling in this situation but you also never flip someone else’s card over. J Dogg got exactly what he wanted and actually went against the floors ruling by also flipping josh’s card. Both of these players take responsibility for this foolishness.
@@jamessurr7757 the thing is was the hands your talking about live? I understand he was already all in but the only time another player flipped one of my cards was when he already mucked and I let them choose one
what fucking part of jdogg let josh flip that card over, dont you fucking understand?
Why is everyone flaming Josh? J Dogg is clearly angling. Really scummy move when Josh seeing one of his card doesn't change anything, but him seeing one of Josh's cards will decide the hand.
He is agreeing to play on a live stream for entertainment and instead he held up the game to whine at the floor.
It doesn’t matter if it changes anything. If they discussed showing each other’s cards and he flips one without showing his then J Dogg is in the right. If they didn’t and Josh flipped over a card without consent then I 100% support J Dogg for having the right to flip one of his cards. It’s not angling, he asked for it.
Jdogg is clearly a clown.
J dog had an easy snap call imo, all that extra shit was a clown move on his part. Fully agree with Sam
@@TheOnlyXenux the problem is ：this rat jdogg AGREEed to show one of his card while let josh CONSIDER show him one. josh never say u show me one the i ll show u one. he said u show me one then i ll consider show u one. he made a big mistake on playing And believeing a rat
@@liyexiang666 we can’t really hear what they said, but come on let’s be honest, who’s showing someone else their card in exchange of nothing? But then again, jdog should’ve realized that if John wasn’t willing to show him one card back he was prob bluffing
Way to go J Dogg. Now you'll be known as the Alec Torelli of TCH. Nice angle.
It wasn't J Dogg who was angling, it was Josh...rofl
@@okiepokertraveler1718no watch again
@@okiepokertraveler1718 How so? The action is done for him. The information is now irrelevant. They clearly had a discussion about flipping a card and then he did it and then the guy tries to get him taken out
Yeah seriously. Like i get it, don’t ever touch another players cards but Josh was already all in. So whether Josh knew one or even both of J dogs cards was completely irrelevant, he was all in and nothing was changing that. Josh hastily flipped over J Dog’s card just to know whether he was screwed or not and J Dog took that opportunity to try and get Josh kicked out which was a puss move IMO
It dont matter. You dont ever touch another person card. You flip mine i flip yours.
What Josh did was inexcusable and he should have received a harsher penalty than one round. But the penalty for J dogg should be far more severe because:
1) j dogg is the one still to act and exposing Josh’s hand gives jdogg a freeroll with thousand of dollars on the line. Jdogg is the only person who can gain from seeing a card and he forcefully took advantage of situation by breaking the rules.
2) jdogg is intentionally breaking the rules in front of the floor after they gave their ruling, and basically giving a big FU to the floor person and the establishment when he flips over Josh’s card.
The discussions during the hand make this situation awkward, but what’s clear is that there was some sort of miscommunication. From the floor’s perspective, they can’t rule on those sort of agreements, esp if one party claims they said they’ll “consider” showing their card.
Not at all condoning Josh’s actions. I think he should have been kicked out. But he had nothing to gain from seeing a card, it was pretty clear that he was drunk and was just trying to spice things up for the stream based on his comment right before he flipped over the card. Jdogg had everything to gain and intentionally broke the rules to gain an edge in a $2500-$4k pot.
I think the floor should have given a harsher penalty to josh and made the consequences clear to jdogg if he revealed josh's card because his action is still pending. By failing to do so, that made jdogg decide to take advantage of the soft 1 round penalty to gain an edge in this big pot. This can NEVER be allowed to happen. What baffles me the most is the decision to allow j dogg to keep playing on the stream after this hand, without penalty, after he defiantly broke the rules in front of the floor after he didn't like the ruling.
This sets up a really bad precedent b/c players need to be able to rely on the floor to impose proper penalties. Saying they won’t allow the “ill show if you show” situation is only a reactionary move, and they won’t be able to prevent all conflicts from arising in the future. As players, we need to be able to count on a proper resolution if someone breaks the rules and does something to gain an unfair edge to win the pot.
Josh shouldn’t be penalized at all is was an agreement between both josh and j dogg
an agreement? come on, it's poker Phil. what do you think this is?
@@raz3rpup nah this is not tony g style banter angling. this is straight up cheating. if the floorman had a spine it wouldnt even work,he would lose the pot that shouldve been a snap call win, and get banned permanently. so yea, not such a smart move by jfag
@@prestonsoulamany7909an agreement Josh backs out of the moment he sees a heart
He went all in to be fair. It doesn't really matter if he sees a card at this point. To me jdog wanted to see one of his cards. 100% shouldn't flip an opponents card but nether should jdog, difference is jdog gained an advantage because of it.
Exactly. He didnt want to be a real poker player and just make the call. He wanted the guys hand to be dead 🤣 such a baby
j dog really wanted that 2k.
But we have to understand that most of the guys there are not in that table just to merely play. Most if not all of them are there to earn money. Poker is a game where you capitalize on any mistake made by your opponent. He just did what hes got to do. If you do not know the rules why play the game? If we see josh" action to be legal then, him flipping josh" card should be legal too.
Yeah free info isn't an advantage at all 💀💀💀💀🥴🥴🥴🥴🥴
@@andylymbo exactly
He was all in. The other players hand that has a decision to make doesn’t matter anymore. No more action can be made by the all in player. Sounds more like jdog angled this guy and then when he flipped the card made a big deal about it.
Not necessary true, because josh could still try and use words to play this situation. If J dogg wanted to flip over his hand first to show josh, and try and pick up a tell from josh. Then whatever, but josh should have never touched J dogg‘s cards. If this was a ufc fight, and the fighters say to each other, if you let me poke your eyes, and I’ll consider letting you poke mine too. Now, does that give you the right to poke your opponent’s eyes ?
@@kyth8964 is this a ufc fight? He told him to pick a card. Obviously there would be no reason for Josh to expose a card when the only person left to make a decision is jdog. Jdog angled this situation and targeted someone that English wasn’t their first language. He should have chosen to call or fold and not grabbed Josh’s cards because everyone said he couldn’t.
@@moremilesmoreproblems6330 "English is not my first language" is a bad excuse, if you know the language well enough to play in the first place, you understand what's being said.
makes alot of sense, jdog seems to be a bitch
@@dragonproductions236josh should be penalised for touching someone cards but jdog was obviously angle shooting here
I think it is pretty clear that J Dogg was the only one who would gain any sort of information with that deal. Who cares what J Dogg has once, Josh is already all in. He was hoping that he could corner Josh on this and I guess it worked out for him.
While Josh shouldn't be touching any of his opponent's cards (regardless of what his opponent tells him), he gains no benefit from doing this. J Dogg was hoping to trick him into the exact spot that he got into, and because he was unable to deduce that Josh rarely has him beat there, he wanted the easy way out. I hope that Josh learned from this hand to ignore try hards on the river who always pipe up with "show if I fold", "show me one?" etc.
J Dogg had everything to gain and even played the sympathy card as if the 9c influenced Josh's decision. Ad then arrogantly called the all-in, once he flipped over one of Josh's cards making it one of the easiest calls when he is sitting there with a flush and seeing an offsuit card. J Dogg is the kind of player that I root for to lose.
The proof lies with the man who uncaps his card voluntarily, and separates them for his opponent to easily pick one of them...then...the angle begins, and a goofball becomes trapped.
Thank god a reasonable point of view. This commentator is outrageous
@@Eouseauctioneering woke drama queen commentator.
Not an issue if Josh sticks to his word and flips one of his own too, but you can see his facial expression at 4:08 and there is no way Josh would flip. So instead he plays dumb, immediately lying and claiming he didn't flip the card. Josh snap jams all in, repping a higher backdoor flush than 8,9. That's only a snap call if you're a fish. If Josh won't show one his own as they were discussing before floor was called then he gets what he deserves. Only a 1 round penalty, a price anyone would consider worth paying if it were normalised as sound decision making by Josh. He can still table talk, he still has influence whether the chips are in or not
Nice angle "J DOGG" ya "D BAGG"
Also wtf was the floor doing?! Makes a ruling, player says basically "no fuck off" flips the card and just bully's the pot out of the situation?? Floor should of told him to shut up, ended the hand and chopped the pot or enforced whatever penalty that was ruled.
Yeah, this is a huge angle taking advantage of Josh's naivety - the lesson: play stupid games win stupid prizes. How did flipping the card affect D Bagg: it did not. Bad decision by floor.
jdoggs hand should be dead. he never got permission to flip josh’s card.
Every hand you show gives information to your opponents. You're not allowed to flip over opponents mucked and folded cards, so it doesn't matter that he's all in, it's not allowed. You never touch any cards but your own. The floor should have disqualified him, if they don't want to dead Josh's hand for that then i think JDogg is well in to flip one of his cards. 1 round sit out would be a punishment worth taking every single hand, so why not have everyone doing it after they go all in?
Josh shouldn't have touched the card, clearly. However "J DOGG" is the baddie here. He is clearly angling to get info because he didn't know what to do with his hand.
This was a very poor floor ruling. You don’t make a ruling to turn over someone’s hand. Table etiquette agreements between players should never be enforced by floor, in this case all he said was he would consider it. Josh out of line for turning over the card himself but this is not out of the norm at card rooms, it’s then a little scummy to weasel out of showing one, but that’s for the players to enforce and deal with. Jdogg was the one trying to get information by showing one of his cards and slowing the game down.
Most good floors would simply force jdogg to make a decision and then give josh a stern talking to and maybe a ban. Players would likely shame josh and never make bets with him in the future. Josh could redeem himself by chipping the pot with jdogg but this was piss poor handling overall.
Amateur hour
I agree that side agreements between players shouldn't be enforced by the floor, so in that case Josh's hand should have been dead, no further conversation required. Surely you agree that turning over someone else's cards goes beyond any agreement they may have had, no? It's not the wild west where you play poker is it? Guys flipping opponents cards, the house shrugging it off saying "we don't enforce stuff, you guys have to work it out. Please use knives or fists only, we have a no gun policy here at wild west poker room."
@@cvanunen Josh touched both cards several times when he was deciding which card he wanted to see, if Jdogg had a problem with that he could have said something then or protected his cards, whether it was Josh or Jdogg flipping the card is irrelevant to me. Josh was never going to show his card no matter what Jdogg's card was, in my opinion he entered the agreement in bad faith which is why I would ban him.
@@cvanunen jdogg knew what he was doing. He could have easily stopped josh,but instead he laid his cards out to be turned over, watched josh play eenie meenie miney mo, knowing he could call the floor and maybe get his hand thrown out.
This is 100 percent an angle by jdogg and anyone defending this garbage shouldn't be playing
@@mikealldread9045 Fair enough. I’ll have another look.
@@cvanunen maybe I am seeing it completely wrong, it happens. But thats how I see it myself
It's pretty clear Josh was given permission to flip over one card, and if he did indeed say he "might" turn a card over depending on what he sees, then the only douchebag in this video is the scarf-indoors guy. He's the only one who's gaining any actual information, considering Josh was already all-in. So, for the scarf-indoors guy, who goes by the lame name JDogg, to try and claim a $3500 pot risk-free or to get to see one of Josh's card is a tool move and for him to demand it is even more telling. The fact that Josh no longer wanted to show a card after seeing a heart is a tell, snap-call and move on. But, instead scarf-boy starts claiming "he can't just flip over one of my cards" when he clearly took off his card protector and spread them so Josh could pick one and then manipulates a free look at one of his opponent's cards, hence an easy call for the pot, because he's JDouche, the angleshooter who wears scarves indoors.
Bingo
It was obvious in the vid that they had both agreed to let Josh see a card. But he should have pointed to the card and let JDogg flip it. This wouldn't even be contested if it went down like that. They were both angling, but you can't break that most obvious rule of poker, even if agreed upon.
Excactly. The vibe I got was that Jdogg was knew excactly what he was doing while the asian guy tried to have some fun. Its very clear only JDogg could benefit from seeing their opponents card in this hand, so he is a real fking douchebag for demanding to see one. Massive nit too for not absolutely snap calling the river bet anyways, overall disgusting tbh and Im not even kidding.
@@Matttimmswins the guy josh wasn’t angling at all he had nothing to gain from flipping over the other goofs card. He couldn’t act any further as he was already all in lol
Spot on, Josh was robbed and JDogg took advantage of the the language barrier to win the crowd, whatta a total douchebag
I get he shouldn’t have flipped over his card but it had no influence on the hand. He was already all in ….
Thats a clear angleshoot from J Dogg. He should be ejected from the game, nasty personality. Acting all up when it has 0 influence on the outcome. Besides he has the easiest call in that spot.. hes never folding. What a douche
Such a dick move by J Dogg! I hate the way this was handled.
Totally agree...the dick taking advantage of josh mistake....
Josh messed up... what is he a noob.... never ever touch another man's or females chips or cards.... that's how you get shot in the wild wild west movies jeje
Yeah but they had an agreement that they would BOTH flip 1 card. When the other guy didn’t want to flip a card he acted stupid.
How about a different perspective. JDog is clearly angling hard here. Despite the conversation, he allows him to turn a card over knowing he’ll be able to freeroll a dead hand or exactly what played out. There’s literally zero benefit to Josh for JDog showing both cards and JDog knows that. IMO he took full advantage of the situation because he didn’t want to face a “tough decision.” The round penalty seemed fair as JDog wasn’t the one betting and Josh didn’t randomly flip the card up. So yeah, final verdict is that this was a hard angle. P.S this is a fist pump snapcall by the 89hh anyway.
Well spotted, was about to comment the same, he basically got himself out of a really tough decision.
I think the problem is josh did not want to keep to the agreement and let jdog flip over one of his cards.
@@Huyle18 but all josh said was maybe he'll let j dogg flip a card, unless I heard wrong.
@@gino838 if he said that then why still flip over someone elses card?
@@Huyle18 it was very stupid of him to flip the card, I'm not saying it wasnt (I honestly don't have an idea what he was thinking when he did it). They're both in the wrong but j dogg saw an opportunity to use the situation to his favor and did so.
Wow, I have to disagree with the comments here! Josh is already all in, so J Dogg can only gain information by observing his reaction. Cant hear what they said but probably Josh thought they agreed on, you show me one and I may show you one. Miscomunication and it was not like Josh just flipped over his card, JDogg let him do it. Still stupid, but I dont see a reason to vilify Josh
was an easy call anyways
The verbal agreement they had is irrelevant to the actions that were taken. The only question for the floor should've been "is it okay that Josh flipped over JDoggs card?" If yes, then the hand goes on. If not, decide if the pot is chopped or if it goes to JDogg.
A lot of videos try to create drama by using misleading titles but this is truly one of the craziest things I have ever seen at a poker table. That wouldn't even fly in my weekly $30 game. Unreal.
Ehhh i disagree, i play some alot of homegames. Its def clickbait. Like him flipping the card over does not change or effect the hand at all. It just barely effects future hands if they play together. Like they had to be semi friends. Why would u let some guy touch ur cards. Its ur job to protect ur hand.
@@skrufy11 There is a huge difference between a home game and playing at a casino/card room it's called etiquette and general respect for property (however temporary) to not touch or take what is not yours. Yes there was some sort of agreement but the other bloke also tried to renege on his part of the agreement which is just bad form. Would of asked this gentlemen to leave and to not return in the future too much of a pain those kinds of people.
@Brian Elizardo I was at foxwoods about 10 days ago and some old white hair guy at my table was about to beat a lawyer's ass after the lawyer showed up to the table n told the guy to shut the f up like 2 minutes after he sat down lol. Night before some shi went down too but wasn't at my table. Gets heated in the mean streets of 1/2 at foxwoods
@@TheOmgWtfLawl i agree with u, but im just saying, the title shoulda been, "nit tanks with the nuts, and 1 card is flipped over that doesnt affect the action". Not as crazy or big of a deal as i thought it was gonna be
@@skrufy11 9 high flush is hardly the nuts, especially for a pretty substantial amount of money. I think he would have called anyway but I've seen people tank for minutes with a lot easier call than this. Either way, touching another players cards may be ok at your home game but it isn't at mine and even more not allowed at a casino
I more amazed at the fact that you have a UA-cam account named just "Josh"
@@NorCalPhil Me too!
@@ILLIFIED77 hi Jon here
Kind of seems like an overreaction. He didn't do it to gain an advantage. It seems like he was just confused and thought they were having fun. In the end, it really didn't negatively effect Mr Dogg.
A more cynical person might say it very positively affected Mr Dogg and that’s why he allowed it to play out that way 🤔
I thought the floor was correct in his ruling, just shouldve held his ground and told DBagg that if he flips joshs’ card over his hand is dead. First card flip shouldnt affect action in any way, where as the second one will give the other one a clear advantage. Make rulings based on whats fair not what some angleshooter wants and says is ”equal” or technically correct.
100%
Dbagg. Haha.
Clearly an angle by Jdogg. josh doesnt get any information by seeing jdoggs cards because josh is all in. jdogg gets A LOT of information by seeing joshs cards. PLUS jdogg agreed to let josh turn one over and then he was like: hE cAnT jUsT tUrN oVeR oNe oF mY cArDs
He agreed to let him turn one over in exchange for turning one of his over. Then backed out of it like a fucking weasal.
the dude was already ALL IN. So it didnt matter. What was he going to do? Go double all in?@@06hurdwp
Statistically he gains nothing. But this poker where people fold their hands over being bluffed. Any information you get can be used to cause your opponent to fold. So I disagree that just because he went all in that it doesn't matter.
Flawed logic at its finest. There’s already a pot. Neither player knows what each holds. If Josh had an Ace of Hearts and Jdog flipped that then he no doubt would have bluffed himself into folding. It’s only because the moment Josh flipped the card you can literally see the look on his face that he decides to back pedal and not be a man of his word (or in this case action). Poker is all about information and misinformation so saying one has all to gain and the other all to lose is, not to knock you but a very below average IQ thought process.
PLUS Josh was also lying out of his ass saying “I didn’t flip a card” 😂 like bro stfu
Josh made an honest mistake and apologized. JDogg apparently gave Josh permission to flip one card by removing his card protector and spread his cards. This is just angle shoot then baby cry. Josh is the good guy, and JDogg is the bad guy.
Nice try "Josh".
100% correct
Honest mistake? Let me grab some of your chips and apologize cause its going to be an honest mistake
China man got china man back
@@jjoomusic if i told u to do so，then backstab u by denying the fact i told u too. what about then？
besides the fact that goofeball shouldnt touch other players cards , this is such a nit roll by that other guy :-D
LOL yea that's such an easy call
J Dogg is a hypocrite. Wtf he’s never folding his hand in that spot. Such a shady character. He tells Josh he will show him a card, Action is on him, so it has no fucking relevance to the outcome of the hand. He is a conman, I can smell it from here.
J Dogg should be ejected from the game for being such a nasty individual.
@@Max-bf8uf easy 4 you to say you can see his cards. Dude jamed all in for over 2000 bucks on the river, which was 2×bigger than the pot. After all there are 4 other potential fushes bigger
It definitely felt like an angle. Like he was pretty sure he had the best hand but could try to leverage this as a forfeit from his opponent just in case he was up against a higher flush. He knows he's never folding in that spot.
I mean if Josh went all in and there was only the tankers action left, it wasn't that such a big deal. He apologized for touching his opponents card and self banned himself from there. No need to throw dirt on his name.
Intellectual theft is a big deal.
Nice try. That was absolutely disgusting.
he threw dirt on his own name 🙄
Cause yall never made a mistake at a table LOL he was wrong and he admitted it and apologized. What do you want him to do? LOL go back in time and fix it? Didn't he lose the pot anyways?
5:40 "i didn't touch the card!"
Let this be a huge lesson, once you're all in it's just best to keep your mouth shut and not move. the fact he didnt snap call is more than enough to not move. and if he starts talking to you DONT RESPOND the more confident you look the more folds you will get. they know the price to see your cards and free shouldnt be an option.
Yes because that makes for such amazing entertainment...
The guy who flipped the card was already all in. It’s super common for a guy facing an all in bet to just flip over his cards as he thinks, since there is absolutely no advantage gained for a player who is already all in to know what his opponent holds. Super big angle from j dogg for sure.
Well no. It definetly helps to know if an opponent is deciding between a high or big hand. You will definetly adjust your poker face accordingly. Anyone saying Josh didnt gain advantage knowing the card since hes already all in is special kind of naive.
Yup. This is an angle by jdog.
As someone that occasionally turns one of my own cards face up and engages in table talk when heads up, I have to say that the general reception to this is pretty pathetic. J DOGG doesn't protect his cards and is cool with what seems to be happening until he isn't. Two way street, Josh shouldn't be getting flamed. If you are going to be a nit, at least let the fun players have fun.
You are spot-on.
And I will add to this. J-Dogg has 2 demands and neither one of them are valid. Josh is not obligated to show either one of his cards. Josh's hand is Not Dead by any means. And J Dogg is not entitled to turn over one of his cards. When he did that he should be kicked out of the game.
I'd REALLY love to play against you for even a kid would be able to beat you. (judging by what you said)
@gaborkallai2112 No kidding? I'd love to vs a person in chess missing half their pieces too 😂😂
J Dogg is lying. After, Josh thought they agreed on flipping, Josh then flipped over one of his opponents cards. J Dogg didn’t protest right away or even become outraged. J Dogg then says, now i get to pick one. He then points at a card. So by his own words and actions and inactions, he did agree to Josh’s terms. Then after Josh said something or when he didnt flip over one of his own cards, J Dogg was all up in arms.
J Dogg was upset Josh didn’t hold his end of the deal. He was not originally upset of Josh flipping one of his card, but then he used that as the reason for his outrage. At this point now, J Dogg is being dirty and angling Josh so he can make an easy call by forcing the floor to call Josh’s hand dead or flipping over one of his cards.
So in the end, he did make the floor force Josh to hold up to his end of the deal.
So both made blunders. Josh’s 1st mistake was talking, while J Dogg was tanking. Now he talked himself into a bad deal and a bad situation where he was gonna lose the hand. Next mistake Josh made was refusing to flip one of his cards over.
J Dogg’s mistake was misrepresenting the outrage and lying about himself not agreeing to the deal when he clearly did by his words and actions.
I want my damn like. Also like if you agree with my analysis. I want top comment. 🙃
J Dogg's actions after the card flip show very poor character, whereas Josh just made a mistake. Josh didn't stand to gain much (if anything) from the card flip, especially given his holding (it would be obvious he was bluffing if he showed a card), while J Dogg stood to gain plenty. In this case, the entire pot.
ye jdogg clearly taking advantage of the situation to get an easy decision. though it probably should be a clear call anyway... like wtf.
Mark you’ve got to be the dumbest and most clueless person in this comment section with a statement like that. That’s impressive! 🤡
lets play. i flip every hand of you!! jeeeez
Josh flipped the card over himself. thats on josh not jdog. if they had an agreement thats fine but josh should have had jdog flip the card not himself.
@@spin-rg9ibdoesn't matter the guys already all in. He gains no advantage by seeing a card. The only one who gained an advantage was Jdogg.
it's unbelievable all the people siding with Josh. They agreed to flip each's cards and once he saw the heart Josh played dumb like he didn't agree. Jdogg was asking the floor for the hand to be killed. You think he's ever been in a situation before where someone flipped his cards over and he was going to use it as an advantage? If they called it dead then Josh gains a huge advantage by not losing 1700 plus. I don't think Jdogg is getting away from a call there but at that point he hadn't done anything wrong so he should call the floor and understand if he has options.
I play poker for a living, every single day. If the floor ruled that his only penalty was sitting out of a CASH GAME for an orbit , I would have snap flipped over one of his cards too and then just taken the orbit penalty while scooping in the pot
If all they give is a one orbit penalty someone could do this every single time they are in a big hand. One orbit is not much but having some massive info before making a call for a few thousand would be worth it to most players.
That may be the penalty for the first offense but I would think that the second offense would get him the boot.
There's no need for declaring Josh's hand dead since he gained no advantage. Just let the hand play out and then enforce penalties. On the other hand JDogg spun this drama into massive advantage for him and HIS hand should be immediately dead once he flipped Josh's card (because he was still last to act,thus gained advantage). That's a ruling in fairness of the game, JDogg used the confusion to cheat his way into winning the pot. JDogg is a whiney cheat,end of story. And the floorman just watched another human get robbed and did nothing.
The guy who is already all in got screwed even tho he is suppose to not flip others cards. He is all in and has nothing to gain.
The guy who flips a card and calls is even worse. Disgusting.
JDogg told him to flop over one of his cards tho.
great video! How about showing us what happened after the hand? Did the dude leave or get kicked out? You can't really give him a penalty in a cash game right? If he's forced to sit a round it doesn't hurt him in anyway.
Clearly Jdogg didn't object until he realized Josh didn't want to show. He was touching Jdoggs cards prior to flipping it with no objection. This type of gamesmanship is good for the game vs stoic boring play. Backdoor flush with less than a pot size bet should have been a snap call and no drama.
Josh is wrong by touching other players card, but is pure angle by J dogg!!!! 100% Where is no benefit to Josh if he sees J doggs card, and a lot info for J dogg to see one Josh’s. There is no way Josh would agree to show one his card too, just does not make any sense.
The floor made a ruling of one round penalty for flipping someone else’s card instead of making him turn one over himself… so instead of arguing with the floor id just flip josh’s card over myself and sit out a round along side him lol…and also… WTF is he even tanking for… thats a snap call on that run out and action… if it ends up being flush over flush then its just a cooler but you cant ever fold there
Exactly. So I guess if the floor is saying one round for touching someone’s card he’s leaving it open for others with a hard decision sayin I’ll just turn my opponents card over and make my decision than. Needs to be a stiffer outcome
So big pot = flip over both opp cards and say opps I call and sit out a round.
I mean I'd argue it's a very different thing whether you flip over someone's cards when you're already all in vs. when action is on you, so I wouldn't assume that the penalties would be the same
@@leoistdoof it is a very different situation for sure.. but they apparently agreed to showing one card each and the idiot with nothing to gain and everything to lose flipped over the card of the person still waiting to act cementing the agreement. Its a very specific situation that would never happen again in a million years
@@porkys1029 I'm certainly not an expert, but I would have said that such an agreement is against the rules and therefore invalid. As tournament director I'd definitely give a hefty penalty to Josh, but I can't see how you could rule his hand as dead (given that he's already all-in and I don't see a huge advantage) and I can't see how you can rule the other card to be flipped over, especially if there is disagreement that it was agreed upon (and obviously Josh did not mean to agree to show one of his cards, that would have been suicidal). But I'd be curious to get a more definite answer (ideally citing some TD rules)
I wish josh had the A of heart or any card higher than the 9 in his hand, and the other guy flipped any of these, he would have folded for sure 😂😂😂
Yeah if he turns over a heart, and mucked. Absolute gold. Josh playing, Jdogg angling. Plain and simple.
Wow, people would get knocked out for scummy stuff like this in a home game
Shitttt he should of got knocked out on the spot lmao or dude should of got up and said we going outside rn or what
Dude should've got knocked right out of his seat
Ya that angle from Jdogg was unreal.
@J Clearly it was an angle by JDogg. What advantage does it give Josh to turn it over? Absolutely none. He made a mistake,for sure,..but the dick in this scenario is JDogg. He shouldn’t have even needed to call the floor or turn over Josh hand to make that call, based on the action.
How is Jdogg a dick? Other players can't break rules of the game just because they are all in.
I would never play in that room again after that floor decision.
Ok as a Pitboss in a underground game, theirs no way to penalize the player in the Live Hand. He flipped over the opponents card while being all in so he has no more action, he could flip both his opponents cards he’s still all in action doesn’t change make your choice either call or fold. Players turn over there OWN cards when someone rips it on them To get live reads. player who turned over his opponents cards is ejected/disqualified from the game. If you turn over your opponents card or cards when it’s on you to Act. hand is DEAD. Your ejected.
Yeah I would agree with that. The guy to act had no right to flip over the other guys hand even though the asian guy was wrong in flipping his cards he had no benefit from seeing the one card that’s why the house ruled a penalty after the hand and the guy got dirty because he was in a tuff spot but he was calling no matter what that’s why he made a big deal over it it really wasn’t that serious though
Wtf kind of hand was this? Was this played at the circus?
Penalty for the player, def shouldn’t be invited to streams anymore. However, the floor is the most egregious.
That is just bad floor management.
Idk whats worse... dude angling or being so bad that he was really contemplating a call there when he judt backdoored a flush. Thats never a fold. If you both backdoored it then so be it but that hand was not played as if anyone had a flush
Oddly enough I had this happen to me once. The guys that run the games were Mobsters they ran pretty big games out of rented air BNB properties. I said to the other player "wtf are you doing now you know part of my hand" and this happened on the turn where nobody was all in or anything he had just called my bet when he did it. The guys grabbed him picked him up off the seat and threw the guy out. They slid his whole stack to me which was probably around $1500. I took a brownie ($100) out of my pocket and tried to hand it to the person who threw him out but he refused to take it so I gave it to the lovely lady bringing us drinks and food. He said he's never seen that in 15 years running games and that he was sorry and didn't want me to leave or not come play anymore. I told him it's all good not his fault it happened. People like this should never be allowed back at a Poker game again.
Big difference doing it *mid-game* when there is still action to come vs doing it once you're already all in (it's a negative free roll for Josh).
On the turn tho, that guy deserved to get tossed out.
This was NOT an angle. The bottom line is, Josh was not expecting Jdogg to be tanking with a flush. Therefore, he agreed for both parties to see a card. When he saw the heart, Josh redacted the deal because he HAD to redact the deal. Jdogg was understandably upset at that. Also, it is incredibly reckless to grab another players card and turn it over, especially when you're already all in. You get no information out of the deal and you're putting your hand at risk. For me, this should be a lesson learned for Josh. The safe thing to do when you're all in is stare at the table and not say a word until the other player either calls or folds. Period!
In essence, I agree with you. But it depends on what you want the other player to do.
Josh wanted J Dogg to fold, so this whole charade was designed to give "strong hand" vibes. Josh was never going to flip his own card and he knew that from the start. The fact that J Dogg even let Josh flip his card says that he had a hand. So this arrangement never really benefits Josh. Josh's plan was to see J Dogg's card and then act as though he had J Dogg beat. Then hope that J Dogg picks up on it and folds.
I strongly suspect that if Josh also had a flush that was not the nuts, he might have been less animated, less cocky and maybe, as you say, stare straight at the table to give nothing away.
Misunderstanding, commentator literally instigated the most I have possibly ever seen. Josh's action was done so it's not like he knew what he had before he put him all in.
Agreed, this commentator feels very comfortable babbling with confidence on a situation he even admits to not fully understanding. In his own words, "get him the hell out of here".
Josh's mistake is bad, but J dogg's behviour is actually worse! Josh should be evicted from this round, the fact that Dogg asked his condition to the game, that was actually profitable for him, isn't poker. From this moment, the game should stop.
Seemed like in the end Jdog flipped over a card without the floor giving him permission. Jdog needs to be banned for a long time and Josh needs a shorter ban in my opinion. What josh did was wrong, but it didn't affect anything. What Jdog did was more wrong and clearly an angle.
J dogg’s logic was if the floor isn’t going to penalize josh in this hand for flipping over cards than jdogg can do the same thing to josh. Once he heard the floor man say no penalty he applied the logic to himself which I believe to be fair
@@youknowthedrill99 Floors exist for a reason buddy to create clear rulings. You think it'll really end up well if people can just disregard rulings because they subjectively believe their own form of 'justice' to be "fair"? Get a grip lmao
@@sean5910 the point im making is that he didn’t disregard the rules he applied the rules the floor man made to himself which seems fair
@@youknowthedrill99 no he was angling and taking advantage of the situation without waiting for an official ruling from the floor. Josh had poor etiquette but had verbal permission from douchebag to see a card, which douchebag had uncapped and placed in front of Josh. You have poor situational awareness.
@@antisanso why, at 5:40, did he say "i didn't touch the card!"?
Just on principal, anybody who wears a mask and then TAKES IT DOWN TO TALK should have some sort of social penalty.
Every now and I still see people wearing a mask in their car with their windows up.
COME ON PEOPLE!!!! Americans are supposed to be pioneers and trailblazers, not cowering in fear because the media WANTS us to " be afraid, very afraid".
Snap out of it, folks!!!
JDog flipping a card facing action is far, far worse by the way. Basically stole the guy’s money
if all josh was facing was a 1 round penalty for turning over someones cards, then hell yeah i'll take a 1 round penalty too for 4k chips. bad ruling by the floor. if missing one round is the penalty then i'd just be flipping everyones cards over during a big hand. dont ever touch another players card for any reason ever in an active hand.
@@ethanruiz3022 Josh was all in. Him knowing the other guys hand doesnt change anything. The nit was angling because hes scared money clearly. He clearly told him to pick one and then tried to act like they agreed to show each others cards.
Finessed. Plain and simple.
He wanted to make his decision as easy as possible and he ended up achieving his goal.
Josh is all in and his action cant change. Doesnt matter if he sees jdoggs cards or not. But it does matter other way around.
Someone should have stood up and stopped JDogg from finessing there
J Dogg’s personality is insufferable. Josh’s action is complete, and in a game of gentleman, there needs to not be so much back and forth holding the entire game up. J Dogg is the type of guy to say “hey he showed that guy his hand you need to show me too!”
I hope Josh doesn’t have to deal with too may YT idiots… I’m inviting Josh to my game
And that’s why the ruling is the way it was. Josh is good for the game. He’s action. I’m not sure if the same can be said for JDogg.
I play with players that are the show one, show all types. I’m the opposite. I just don’t care. I’m fun enough at the table that most people show me their hands without even asking me. The poker gods tend to reward players who aren’t insufferable and are just trying to have a good time. Jdogg made a big fuss over an issue that didn’t really matter, as Josh was all in. Jdogg was able to see that his rivered flush could beat Josh after turning over one of Josh’s cards.
If I was Josh and Jdogg, I would just refuse to play on the same table as each other and move on
learn the rules and stop crying. That weasel even lied about flipping the card even though we saw it multiple times on camera.
Why is everyone defending this Josh guy? He’s lucky he didn’t get his face punched in.
How is flipping over someone else’s card “a mistake?” Give me a break…
Am I missing something? This shouldn’t even be a question. You flip over an opponents cards in a game of poker, you lose automatically. It doesn’t need a separate penalty. The penalty is that you lose the hand.
Uh no...he is already all in flipping over the card doesn't impact anything...the room can take actions after the hand but it shouldn't during...on the other hand as soon as JDogg turned over Josh's cards his hand should be dead. Weak floor didn't help here.
@@TheDjcarter1966 j dogg didn’t call yet. He still had to act. Josh being all in doesn’t mean he can flip JDoggs cards. If Josh wanted he could start hollywooding somehow after seeing the card and influence JDogg. That’s cheating.
For example: “Jdogg, I hope your other card is a higher heart. I got you beat for now.”
I’ve never seen anyone do this in a game. Have you?
Yeah it's def a dead hand, agreed.
@@wouldntyouliketoknow1477 I've seen people flip over someones hand after the hand was completed (almost just as outrageous), Should they automatically lose the hand for doing so?? Just flipping someones hand in and of itself is not wrong especially if given permission to (which josh clearly thought he had).
There's no way Josh would agree to show one card. None of his cards are good to show.
no shit
Might as well as spit in his face while he was at it. These are the guys that ruin good games.
The dog got called out for playing silly bugger for a show me mine, I'll show you mine as well 😂
I’m with Josh on this one. The only thing he did wrong was touch his cards. The Commentator kept talking over them so we couldn’t hear there conversation but you can clearly hear everyone at the table side with Josh when asked if he said “I might consider turning my cards over if JDog shows his. Josh was already all in, even if he saw both his cards he couldn’t have done anything but pray he didn’t get called. If I’m JDog that’s still a EZ call even if Josh didn’t show one of his cards.
I might consider if JDog shows his, Is not the same as grabbing someone else’s card and flipping it over. If there is no penalty for doing this he could do it every round.
'the only thing he did wrong was touch and flip over his cards'. um yeah, no shit it is.
@@Simon-nv5zj exactly ~ touching and flipping another person’s card is egregious! “Sit out one round” ~ more like ejected from the facility.
How tf do u even fix u mouth to say “I side with Josh on this one”??? How u see no problem in saying I might consider flipping my cards over if j dogg shows one of his, then continues to personally, without being told to, just flips said player card, is beyond me!!!
@@teezwilliams22 Joshs' mom had to show support somehow, let her post, lol
Okay flipping someone’s card is OOL but he was already all in! It doesn’t matter if he sees the card, this is some playful shit we do at house games. Obviously no place for this in the casino but jdog causing a scene made him look pretty weak IMO just call you’re not folding bd flush. Also the announcer lol
Fr! JDogg slow too cause if josh don’t wanna show it’s obvious he got a worse hand 😂
Completely agree. Josh seeing the card doesn’t change the action at all. Penalty was the right call. When Josh flips one over back, his hand should have been killed
Yeah, this has been twisted way out of context. J-Dog had a protector on his cards for the entire hand. He uncapped his cards, and then set the cards next to each other in front of him. Also Josh was hovering his hand over J-Dog's cards and touched them a few times before he flipped a card over, and J-Dog had ZERO issue with it.
J-Dog was under the impression he could flip one of Josh's cards if he showed one of his cards, which makes no sense at all because J-Dog would gain a ton of info but Josh gains nothing since he's already all-in and has no further action. J-Dog only took issue and began to complain when Josh refused to also show one of his cards. Should Josh have physically flipped over J-Dog's cards, of course not. It's quite obvious though that J-Dog allowed Josh to do it, and then threw a fit after the fact when he realized the agreement wasn't what he initially thought it was.
@@michaelkrell9794 Right, Josh is all-in and thus has no further action in the hand. Seeing one of J-Dog's cards doesn't give action changing information to him. J-Dog just threw a fit after the fact because the deal wasn't what he thought it was. J-Dog thought Josh was dumb enough to show him a card, and got pissed when he realized Josh wasn't that stupid. lol
What if he planned on mucking and didn't want him seeing what his cards were?!? How is that hard to understand or need explained? Don't ever touch other peoples cards. This would be out of line even had he mucked and Josh flipped one over before the dealer gathered it in the muck.. he received free info no matter how small for future spots by looking at a card. But doing it while the hand is still in play?!? You guys can't be serious
Guy was WAY out of line. I’ve never ever even heard of anyone ever reaching over and turning another players cards. I agree, he should have been removed from the table.
he eeny meeny miney moes it, after the guy removed his protector and spread the cards... this is so obvious its painful
Iv seen it many times and josh didn’t care he was playing victim because he was trying to either get free information or kill his hand the guy should have said ok my hand is dead. He was a nit who wanted him to flip his cards over he didn’t bother making sure You see one of mine i see of yours anytime that happens a Person showing first double checks but he said and whispered flip it flip it he didn’t wanted the drunk guy to flip his card so he try to say I get to see one or his hAnd is dead he was trying to take free money. The faxt he used that line don’t touch my cards he hands never Went to protect his hand also he admitted in his post he knew it made no sense for other guy so who was angling. If anything he should have flipped his hand and showed his flush to see his reaction to get a read. Even after floor man made ruling he was gonnA argue his way out of hand . A real person who have been mad for going back on word but he should have got back in to focus and make the call as at first I assumed he wouldn’t be able to lay it down and make the call but dude can’t afford a bad beat he was prob gonna fold on live steam and still look bad. No reason he should have argued that long when the person got no gain. And if a heart flipped does he fold or in the same position. He was scared money and everyone was gonna call him a nit.
Removed from table and as.s beat
Yes J dogg way out of line should've been sent home after the hand
who cares if he sees the card, he is all in already... floor should recognize that and make him take his action without flipping a card. JDOG is the one who looks shady in this spot
You go to a local casino? If you do, try doing this to other strangers, record their reactions, I genuinely want to see whether you make it to posting their reactions on youtube, since it's usually not long before theirs always that one person you don't know that ends up getting their point across lol. But your most likely just a homebody.
@@___Truth___ still feel this way...??? go watch Bart Hanson's video that came out after I wrote this comment... he agrees with me.
JDouche is in the wrong here, yes Josh made a huge mistake but JDouche was waaaaaaay out of line here, probably one of the worst angles I've ever seen.
Dude went all in then screwed himself with the whole let’s both show a card lol. Had nothing to gain and everything to lose.
Absolutely. But he was desperate to look strong and made a bad choice. 😬
So is JDogg ban from TCH, tanking for no reason when you got a flush and angling as the victim. @tch live poker
Haha he saw that heart and immediately tried to pull a bluff on an agreement they made .. what ppl will do for money lol .. as soon as he saw that heart he knew he had to try to not let his cards be seen lmao 💀
Josh literally got taken advantage of here man. Got handled horribly
Josh is the Asian dude...how did he get taken advantage of?
because there's no more action for him to take, he was given verbal affirmation to pick a card, and he would consider letting jdog pick a card in return@@BalotelliFan713
I'm on Josh's side here. Of course he should have never flipped over the card but it was a clear misunderstandindg + he technically gained no advantage in doing so. Hand should have just played out normally from there imo. Don't like the way JDog is insisting on Josh showing on of his cards as well.
Meta game advantage
Omg I totally missed that Josh was already all in? Did they say that? That changed my whole perception of what just happened! Hmmm this went from egregious to this isn’t a big deal at all.
For sure.. the initial flipped card meant nothing. It would make no sense for josh to show his card while jdogg still needs to make the call. Especially since it was a bluff. Sure, dont touch his cards but wtf it is such a lopsided agreement that only benefited jdogg
The korean guy shove then flipping the white man card. What different could it make? Only make a different if it was the other way arround.
Lol JDogg is a genuine nit for not snapcalling lmao. He has the actual nuts when seeing Josh doesn't want to open a card... What a crybaby
Jdogg definitely angled the guy. Josh should had let him flip over his own cards, but jdogg did use it as a way to see his cards.
yes jdoog played the victim
Complete overreaction to this hand. The guy with the flush needs to snap call this river shove and hand is over. Fair play to Josh for apologising for this error.
They both flipped over there opponents card, in my eyes the second guy was more in the wrong seeing as how he hadn't bet yet.
Right. Because when first position jams the river, second position has option to bet. 🤯
I googled “hipster doofus” and a
Picture of J Dogg came up
one of the worst floor calls ever!! for half a second i thought he was going to do the right thing. Josh definitely needs a big penalty (banned for 1 week or something like that) but in the spirit of the game, the hand needed to be played out in the best way possible that keeps the integrity of the game intact. Showing one of josh's card destroyed the integrity of the game and rewarded the angle shooting of JDogg. I hate players like JDogg who have no honor and floor people like this one who got bullied into making a horrible call.
I dont play poker but I feel like this is a punchable offense.
Everything about what I just saw was tilting.
Poker etiquette you only touch your own cards. If you touch another player’s cards you are supposed to be asked to leave the game.
The whole "reveal a card" gimmick is fucking stupid but so are these narrators for not realizing J Dogg clearly arranged for this
IVE BEEN IN HUNDREDS OF GAMES WHERE THE OPPONENT AGREES TO LET THE OTHER PLAYER FLIP ONE. THE COMENTATOR HAS NEVER BEEN IN A ACTUAL POKER CASH GAME
That’s wild as a dealer I would have tried to stop the player from Turing over their card at all no matter the discussion. And once he found out the penalty for him was a fucking round I would have reached over and tabled one of his cards if I was the player. How gross I’ve never seen anything like that.
Josh is all in. Jdogg can show his hand while thinking anyway and ofcourse he's far from folding.. he might but the chance is slim.. Josh flip it over but actually it doesn't matter coz he's all in... This is taking advantage of a player you already have an edge with.
This hand made me mad lol. The floor and dealer dropped the ball.
it has nothing to do with any of that…it’s a snap call with a flush
if you’re folding flushes on the river then the game is beyond your bankroll
Watchinh the video of Bart Hanson's take on this situation made me look at this in a completely different way
JDog took advantage of Josh's mistake. JDog should be ashamed of himself. He should have just played his hand and made his decision. Josh's action, wrong though it was, made absolutely NO difference. If TCH live let Jdog turn Josh's card over as it seems was the floor's decision, that too was a terrbile mistake. TCH should refund Josh if you ask me. You can't let a dishonest arguement like the one Jdog made win the day.
you are missing the point. AT NO STAGE, should Josh ever flip over his opponents cards, ever. The fact they had an 'agreement' or whatever is irrelevant. The floor made a terrible decision here. At worst, JDogg is an angle shooter, but thats a hard sell.
@@Simon-nv5zj I can't tell if you agree or not. I am saying the floor made a bad decision by giving a guy yet to act free info. I am also saying Josh did wrong, but it made no difference as he had no action left to take. You say I am missing the point then agree with me. I don't understand.
@@Declan4253 Mate, at no point in any decent casino or poker game, are you allowed to flip over your opponents cards. Whether it made any difference or not is completely irrelevant. Josh made by far the biggest mistake here, whilst JDogg only followed the ruling of the floor. The floorman also made ridiculously bad rulings as well ,and it all started with not declaring Josh's hand to be dead. The fact he was 'all-in' has nothing to do with it.
@@Simon-nv5zj 'whether it made any difference or not is completely irrrelavant' ... now that is a crazy statement, but lets agree to disagree.
@@Declan4253 how is it crazy? Its the rules, regardless of what you think if it makes a difference or not. This shit aint hard.
100% agree, even if there's a conversation/agreement on something let the other player do it for you when it involves their cards/chips/etc and proxy through the dealer
I remember the days of players not taking to each other, no side bets, no showing cards before the end of the hand and no running it multiple times.
The good times in other words.
that's because you watch it on tv between people who cheat at casinos
that dude should be banned. Dont touch the card even if you agree. Let the player flip his own card. Asian dude a clown. He was losing either way.
I was about to roast Josh because this is absolutely egregious. But, he owned up to it. We’ve all been there bluffing in a big pot, and given he looked like a complete ass but said he made the mistake and apologized for it, I want to give him props for giving a public apology.
@BloKaPEW Josh was all in already so it really doesnt make much of a difference that one of JDogs cards is exposed
His apology was NOTHING more than damage control after backlash and seeing how bad he made himself look... he even deliberately lied about flipping over the card lmao if you're gonna lie at least lie about the agreement you thought was made. He deserves all the roasting that he gets
Is that all it takes these days after trying to screw up a thousands+ pot is to make some apology.
Stan if it didn't make a difference then why was josh so horny to see one? Because he wanted to know if he could talk him into folding , thats why!
@BloKaPEW How did Josh seeing Jdogg's card affect anything if Josh is all-in?