You know.... I just had to come back to this comment section because after having seen a comment stating "your" silly & ridiculous in your safety gear working with muriatic acid, it scares me that people are going to take him seriously and avoid it completely thereby being harmed by that caustic and dangerous acid. Seeing him do so is not only irresponsible but borders on something quite possibly prosecutable should someone take his advice and end up harmed or worse than that dead! He reminds me of "That guy that shows up to the party, no food, no beers, no ice & nobody with him. Yet, he's telling ya how to cook the burgers, the better kind of beer to have, where to get ice cheap and that insanely gorgeous chick he almost brought. Then gets in his car plastered and drives away."
Thanks Roy. I hope you and the wife are doing well during these crazy times. Thanks for stopping by and taking the time to comment. I appreciate it. I have more tests on this sort of process in the near future. The heat wasn’t in the plan. Maybe I’ll add that.
You did right by using all your safety equipment, don't listen or waste your time with these knuckle heads who think they no better, as for the results of the white vinegar, you answered my research questions, how did the other white vinegar do as compared to the first test of vinegar? Will this work on auto panels for rust?
I’ve tried several strengths of vinegar since this video always looking for the fastest option while still keeping it safe. The best I have come across was about 2 weeks ago at my buddy JD’s shop. Apex Welding. He had a 99% vinegar. It was removing rust in less than an hour. Didn’t mess up my hands. No strong off gassing. I’ve never seen this in a store, but here’s a link. amzn.to/43muph7 obviously more expensive than the stores 3% or 10%, but if your like me and time is an issue this is amazing.
Thank you so much for this video! My husband and I recently started doing metal work and your video has saved us a ton of hours in cleaning mill scale! Vinegar is a life saver!
I had thought about doing an epoxy floor coating in my garage and the instructions said to etch it with muriatic acid, but I never got around to it. You exude confidence by working with acid in your best shirt! LOL, thanks for the love Chad!
Muriatic acid (aka, hydrochloric acid) is an inorganic acid, and the fumes given off during the descaling process are the acid, itself, hydrogen (highly flammable/explosive), and chlorine (highly toxic and corrosive), not VOCs (volatile organic compounds). Vinegar (acetic acid) also gives off hydrogen when it reacts with iron, but not chlorine or other toxins. The reason muriatic acid works better for removing mill scale (and rust and galvanizing zinc) is because it has a pH of less than one, compared to a pH of a little over 2 for vinegar. That means it's more than 10 times as reactive as vinegar at the same concentration. Also, pool acid is usually sold at a concentration of about 15%, while vinegar is usually around 5%. When working with muriatic acid, always cover as much of your skin as possible--long sleeves, long pants, closed shoes, etc.--and use eye protection and work in a very well ventilated area. Staying upwind will usually protect you from the fumes if you use a little common sense, but a chlorine rated respirator is even better. A dust mask or other type of respirator (or one that's not properly fitted or worn out) won't do much of anything to protect you. And remember, the gas can still get in your eyes and on your skin, so staying out of the fumes is the best plan. Also, you can dilute muriatic acid--acid added to water, never the other way around--to make it less dangerous to work with, but it will also take longer to do its thing. I usually wrap paper towels around whatever I'm trying to strip with muriatic acid, place the item outdoors, in the shade, and on a non-reactive surface, and soak the towels in the acid. After 10 - 15 minutes the towels go into a plastic bucket of water with as much baking soda as the water will hold dissolved in it, and the part is rinsed in clean water.
Schuyler Grace excellent explanation. You are correct. I misspoke. They are volatile inorganic compounds vs organic. I should know better. Thanks for taking the time to take this conversation a little deeper.
@@ManCrafting Thank you. and you are welcome. I designed and fabricated a 20-foot steel sculpture this past summer and had to strip the mill scale off of several large pieces of structural steel. When I saw your video, I was reminded of the things I cautioned my assistants about, since they thought pool acid was relatively harmless. Using the paper towel trick is a really good way to keep the acid and its fumes contained, plus you don't have to figure out how to store or get rid of used/contaminated acid--you certainly don't want to pour it back into the jug of fresh acid. Your bucket idea with the strainer inside was a great one for smaller parts, since you can seal the lid and save it for next time. But I couldn't find a bucket that would fit 10-foot, several hundred pound lengths of 0.5" thick, 5.5" square structural steel. Oh, and I now have several pairs of those fashionable, hole-filled jeans all the kids are wearing these days. :^)
Great Tips Chad!!!!! I soaked a rusty drill press in vinegar soaked paper towels over night. Came back the next day to find a sexy metal underneath... I no longer look at something rusty as being bad.. Its pretty awesome stuff.. Another awesome solution is Harbor Freights Evaporust.. Dude.. that stuff is awesome at rust... And you dont have to mess with all the acidity of vinegar.. And its reuseable.. just pour it back in the bottle after every use.... Keep your maker hand strong brother!
WoodenCreationz evaporust is pretty amazing for sure. They also sell it at Tractor Supply. I’m not sure how it will do on Mill Scale. Sounds like another test.
had a piece of round stock and within 2hrs, 5% white Vinegar has already loosened it up that you can start to wipe it off. I ordered up some 30% cleaning vinegar. This is a great process. Thanks
Thanks for the informative vid mate. I immerse galvanised steel fittings in double strength cleaning vinegar overnight to remove the zinc coating prior to welding. Vinegar definitely works and the stronger the better if in a hurry! You could probably also mix up powdered acetic acid and water but this I haven't tried, since I can usually wait overnight.
I normally use my Grinder to strip mill scale, but it’s all on longer pieces. I’ll definitely remember this for small stuff. Was there any difference between the white and cleaning vinegar?
I’m telling you. There is no way that the grinder is getting that mill scale off with ought losing metal. It’s unbelievable. Sometimes I get lucky and it will be thinner and come of in seconds. But most of the time it seems like the mill scale is diamond coated. I could tell much difference between the two vinegars. Really close.
@@ManCrafting damn straight, I happen to be a great welder, been using angle grinders forever, but it doesn't matter how good you are, you are always going to eat into material removing scale.
Both contain acetic acid, just in higher concentration in cleaning vinegar. You are better off just buying powdered acetic acid, if that's the way you want to go and dissolving it into water to its max concentration.
I just use my sandblast cabinet. It eliminates rust and mill scale really quickly with no mess. I use a lot of air tools and a plasma cutter so I already have a moderate size air compressor (11.8 CFM) with a DIY after cooler that will maintain 100 psi of dry air in the line with the cabinet in use.
I made a portable bandsaw table with a 12" x 12" x1/4" plate. I soaked the plate in a shallow tub of cooking vinegar for 4 hours. I scrubed it with a heavy duty paint stripping pad and it came out completely clean. Vinegars a pretty good option if you have the time or want to minimize the hazards.
Great video. I am making a large smoker and would like to clean the coating off the steel and then get a patina look with linseed oil. If I soaked rags with Muratic acid and laid it over top the large pieces and washed it off or brushed it on would that work? It is too large to soak. Look forward to hearing from you.
I generally leave it over night in vinegar and works really well. 5 euro for 5 liters of white vinegar. I don't need to worry about the acid safety issues. And I'm rarely in such a hurry that I need any quicker, on the occasions I do I use a Silicon Carbide grinding disc.
Can vouch for that, I left a small SEALED heavy-duty plastic bottle of muriatic in my workshop for a short while and everything that could rust, did rust. Sorry for your loss.
Hi, I use white vinegar to de-rust items and it works great and I normally only leave it in for 24 hours ( I have left it in for a week when the rust is very bad) but that was just once. I am not quite sure what mill scale is but I know that the vinegar works with rust.
Thanks. I had used Vinegar for rust as well. I didn't consider trying it for Mill Scale until the comment I referred to in the article. Mill scale is a black coating that forms when steel is hot rolled or formed. It's a magnetic oxide. I actually inadvertantly left one piece in the vinegar from Sunday to Sunday and it looked great. No etching to the metal at all, which is great because if I had done the same thing in the Muriatic Acid it would be etched and uneven.
@@jimmyschmidt14 No. Vinegar will etch if left for significant amounts of time. You may not have noticed a problem with some bolts, however they undoubtedly are out of spec compared to normal ones. Depends on what they're being used for.
You remind me alot of myself in the way you express yourself in this video. LOL It also turns out were are into the same things (welding, powder coat, etc) thanks for the video. I hope to see more of your work.
@@ManCrafting Hey I been doing the Vinegar thing and its only taking 2 hours on a 80 degree day. (San Diego) I take the steel out and dry it with a napkin and bump it with a orbital sander and an old 150 grit paper. While the scale is still semi attached it turned into almost hard chalk and sands away in about 20-30 seconds. Unreal. I feel with some tinkering I could even make the process faster!... I have a 4 year old and I am afraid of the acid.
You are not being ridiculous with your safety gear... Of course not. In fact, it is mandatory in any shop that recognizes OSHA or any safety requirements, and it is recommended on all the labels and the MSDS sheets. I ran the coatings, waterproofing, painting, finishing, and graffiti sections, as well as the Hazard Waste, for a prominent City for 20 years, as a Supervisor. Muriatic acid and other acids were an integral part of our metal work coatings, including trailers water treatment plants vehicles equipment machinery etc. Not one project was ever attempted without the safety gear and even more than what you have there, suits made for SCBA's . As a content Creator here demonstrating your process in this video I can honestly say you are spot on! there is nothing wrong with recommending safety gear when attempting projects that could have detrimental effects to your well-being. Great video! And yes you are correct, soda ash, which is the main ingredient in many products such as baking soda, baking powder, even Alka-Seltzer and antacids is a natural neutralizer of most acids. Neutralizing them to the point they can be fully washed down the drain with no problem to the environment..
Always nice having an actual expert comment on a video and let you know you're doing something correctly. I may "look ridiculous and silly" and "sound so stupid" to some, but it's people like you whose words actually have a value that I listen to. My wife is the safety officer at a large lab and she will have plenty to say when she sees that comment. ;-)
Absolutely correct! I hold a degree in Chemistry and serve as our Chemical Hygiene Officer for the lab. Wearing PPE ( personal protective equipment) is a must. Anyone suggesting otherwise is simply being irresponsible.
@@ManCrafting I just thought a professional word or two on the matter would be considered by those watching this video and quite possibly be considering the use of the Acid. And to be frank,..in all my years I've only seen and/or heard of but a few actually speak directly to "Not using Safety precautions & gear"... even calling it silly. There's a reason those areas of a playing shop are not allowed to the public. They're caustic, toxic & dangerous. To even suggest otherwise, is indeed dangerous....and "ridiculous and silly"
I just used the vinegar and let it sit over night.. woo! Came off so nice lol love it! Stinky but I'd rather smell that then take a chance with the other stuff 😆
Question: I have several 4'x4' 3/8 mild steel plates that need de-scaling. Can't put them in a bucket. How would you go about it for both methods. Thankx
Fatty Fat-Fat great question. Actually answered earlier in this comment section. Soak paper towels with muriatic acid and spread on the metal. Vinegar would probably work as well, you’ll just need to keep the paper towels moist with fresh vinegar. Maybe use a sprayer.
Hey I am from India and I run a steel factory. We deal with hot rolling that includes billets and structural steel. On an average mill scale formed is somewhere between 12-15 kg per ton. I was hoping to get some insight on how to avoid formation of mill scale. If you have any insight please do share. Thanks
Mate, in simple process steel milling there is not a great deal that can be done about mill scale. in Very high end steel milling they dramatically reduce or eliminate mill scale by excluding oxygen in the process by working in or flooding the material with an inert gas .... but this is incredibly expensive. To a certain extent you should be thankfull for the mill scale because it protects the steel in the short from from rusting. If you remove the mill scale you MUST immediately coat it with something to protect it. You may reduce mill scale to some extent by tightly controlling the process .... this would be reasonably high technology steel milling.
Thanks Greg. Also don’t think that I ignored your advice. It rings through my head every time I go to finish a video. I just haven’t made time to make changes I’ll be happy with.
10% cleaning vinegar works for me in about 3 or 4 hours or so by wiping it by hand or using a dish sponge / green scouring pad. The bonds weaken, but not enough to dissolve without manual wiping or agitation. I wonder if you could scale up the process with a sous vide wand circulating hot vinegar. One comment below said heating up the vinegar in a crockpot made it take only 10 minutes. :o
I actually have a video on that. I keep a 5 gallon bucket with a few gallons in it for that purpose. It doesn’t cause anything in the shop to rust which is nice.
You are further slowing down the vinegar by covering it with a lid. It needs to have access to air. White vinegar works fine overnight. Use baking soda water to stop the acid action. Been using white vinegar for decades for removing rust and forging scale.
All he said about muriatic acid is true. Happened to me. Jasco metal etch "PHOSPHORIC ACID" does the same thing, does not rust other things around, does not burn the skin and no fumes that will burn you eyes. I just tested this yesterday and it takes about 2 hours and the mill scale just fell off. quick wipe with a wire wheel and the metal was bright and shiny. what he says about rusting other things in the shop is completely true. it's the reason I will be using Jasco from now on.
Nice comparison, thanks for sharing! I’ve used it but even cleaning vinegar was to slow for me! I typically use Evaporust but I’ve actually used acid out of a car battery when I had to replace mine! I’d like to try mixing powdered citric acid or maybe electrolysis in the future!
Never tried vinegar. Would be interested to see if over night soak would remove plasma dross. Either way have used Muratic Acid for years mixed 4 parts water and 1 part MA. Tub is set up to use outside. Only out gassing I get is when a new gallon is added. After that non that I have ever seen and not burning sensation of lungs. Also works great to get the neck of a toilet clean, when you have plugging problems pour in half gallon and let sit with door closed. Will burn lungs so be very careful. I use heavy rubber or pvc coated gloves., not the thin latex. Soak parts in baking soda with a small dab of sodium nitrite for an hour. Neutralizes and prevents rust or at least minimizes it.
I’m with you on the Muriatic acid. That was my original method and I did a video on that years ago. Got a lot of people crying about toxicity etc... so when I saw this method I thought I’d give it a try. One advantage of this method over Muriatic acid is I can leave it for weeks with no further etching of the metal. If I leave it for too long in the Muriatic acid it will continue to etch the metal. That said, if I’m in a hurry I will always turn to Muriatic acid. And you are accurate. Baking soda (haven’t added sodium nitrate) will neutralize the acids. I’ll try adding some sodium nitrate in the future to the mix. I had that on my to order list for a while for another purpose. This will push me to do it.
@@ManCrafting About the toxicity issue....they do use it in swimming pools to balance the PH....just saying.But also realize that full strength and diluted are two different things.
JSMetalcraft as a chemist, I am well aware of the misuse of the word toxic. The American Chemical Society has a saying “there’s no such thing as a toxic chemical, only a toxic dose.” Then there has to be exposure. Inhaled, ingested or absorbed through the skin.
Great video. For me I found the safest, fastest way to remove mill scale is to simply put the parts in the cabinet blaster and with aluminum oxide just blast the stuff off.
You must have a way better setup than me. My cabinet has a 30gallon compressor and it’s not enough. I plan on running a line from my 60 gallon hoping that’s adequate. Then I may do it that way instead. I’ll let you know.
@@ManCrafting connect the 60 to the 30 in parallel. Two easy ways. One is run the two into a storage tank like Lowe's 7 gallon already had the air fitting. Use a t fitting and then run off the air tank . Or on the regulator of the 30 if you look there maybe another port to be able to put in a fitting. Or remove the safety valve and use that entrance. As long as there is one safety valve between the two it will bleed pressure in the rare event compressor doesn't shut off. If there different psi set the regulator of the highest to the max of the lower one. Done this for years and years.
You can even set the second one at a lower psi as like a back up then it'll come on and even tie in a 3rd that only comes on at a lower psi. Works great I use this to paint and keep everything portable and not need 220
Great video sir. Safety comes always first. Using a respirator is the least you can do to save your (worker's) wind pipe from the corrosive acid fumes. I suggest, instead of using chemicals, use simple 'wet blasting' or 'vapor blasting' for faster & better results. If your HR components is a continuous process then it will be more economical as well. This kind of blasting is fully safe for humans & the environment with practically zero chemical sludge.
Some of the mill scale on these is so thick that i can go through an entire flap disk on one 6" round plate, and the metal will give way and start gouging anywhere you do manage to break through the mill scale. I've had time that it will come of easy or there is so little that it doesn't need much more than a wire wheel. But sometimes...
I don't know about the comments comment is vinegar really any better in those ways aside from that it's weker and or more dilute if you dilute the muriatic acid it would be about the same in most cases without the smell or not as bad of a smell
Restoration Australia thanks for taking a minute to comment. I actually have a third video on this coming. If you haven’t seen the first check it out as well.
You can also get glacial acetic acid, which is "pure" acetic acid, where white vinegar is only 5-20 percent. I'd imagine glacial acetic would be much faster than typical vinegar.
Thats probably pretty expensive compared to regular vinegar. If you want a cheap, better than vinegar yet still safe, consider citric acid. You add it to water, and if you want it stronger, you add more.
@@boots7859 I've tried citric acid, and it definitely was not better than vinegar. It left a sticky residue on the parts that i still had to remove before welding.
Used the 30% this weekend on several pieces of angle iron. Noticed by the 1 hour mark that the scale could be easily removed with abrasive similar to thin paint or rust and had none of the hard characteristics of the scale like the annoying glaze over.
@@ManCrafting Did the 30% strength vinegar work noticeably faster? I want to remove mill scale from the top of my welding table but not sure how to keep the vinegar in place - not able to submerge the entire 3x5 feet top in the solution.
Thanks! Are you going to the Atlanta Maker Faire this year? If so, are you getting a booth? I can't decide if I want to do a booth or just do what I normally do. Wander around and see all the other amazing things.
Michael Roach I just brought a gallon home Friday. Seems to work pretty well. I’m happy to keep it in my covered area. I couldn’t get away with that using muriatic acid.
@@ManCrafting was looking for a way to prevent the flash rust, it's not a huge deal to me, but saves wiping it again with a scotch pad. I'm mostly doing tubing, so I bought an "under-the-bed" type storage container. I'm putting plastic end caps on the tube when I put it in. It doesn't completely block the vinegar from going inside, but it's better than nothing. My findings so far for tubing. 5% vinegar is 12-24 hours 30% vinegar 4 hours I can't justify buying 6 gallons of 30% vinegar ($20/gallon), so I'm going to dilute it with the 5% (instead of water).
Muratic acid will last Forever (practically). I had about 2 gallons in a storage tub, outdoors, behind the garage since about 2017. This Summer (2021) I had to do some de-rusting. Stuff still works great!
Just the fact that I can see the fumes coming off that muriatic acid is enough to scare me off. I'll just plan ahead and soak my stuff longer. Of course, if you do this sort of thing for a living that might not be an option, you might have to go with a stronger acid.
I'm with you Doug. It's definitely fastest. The downside is just the off-gas can rust everything in your shop as you well know. If your planning ahead an overnight soak in white vinegar and bob's your uncle. Also, I left a disc in vinegar for a week and it did no damage to the metal. That's a nice benefit. It's nice to have options. I personally will continue to use muriatic acid more often than not though.
@@ManCrafting Agreed, I use hydrochloric acid always for removing scale nowadays, for parts in my shop. Vinegar is great if you are a hobbiest, but I simply can't wait the ridiculous amounts of time required.
I’ve tried it. It seems to be the same as distilled white vinegar. There is also a 30% white cleaning vinegar. It’s about 10x the cost. It would have to be Muriatic Acid fast to be worth the price for me.
I'm a little late to the video conversation, but this has been amazing research for me. Im in the process of making protective plates for my plate carrier out of AR600 steel and sitting in front of a sandblasting cabinet for hours sucks. I'm going to go get some distilled white vinegar and try this out. Oh and sorry you have to deal with morons like the gentleman arguing about your PPE. I was a lead safety tech and dealt with SDS's (formerly known as MSDS's) quite a bit so I looked up Muriatic Acid and sure enough.. H31: Toxic if inhaled. Respiratory Equipment: "Where vapor concentrations exceeds or is likely to exceed applicable exposure limits, a NIOSH approved respirator with acid gas cartridges is required." So by all means keep doing what your doing! I have a lot of respect for people who take their safety seriously!
Thanks for the in-depth and well thought out comment. My industry relies heavily on SDS to the extent they are required in the office and on the vehicles. So I’m very familiar as well and have looked that up too. It’s no joke breathing it in. The Other commenter had to be using a diluted version at work. There’s no way I could sandblast some of these plates. Occasionally I get one with thin mill scale that could be removed with abrasive on an angle grinder but sandblasting would be exhausting.
@@ManCrafting yeah I'm sure he was using a diluted mixture for sure as most companies do. He definitely could have said what he wanted a little more professionally if he disagrees lol. But where there is social media type atmospheres there will be trolls! What is your instagram?
Muriatic acid does not contain constituents that qualify as volatile organic compounds (VOC) based on the definition in 40 CFR 51.100. HAP Fumes yes, VOC's no. Muriatic acid doesn't have organics in it.
VOC = volatile organic compound. Acid fumes are not VOC's. As they are not organic compounds. They are inorganic compounds. (just as an fyi) And caustic means base (vs the other end of the spectrum which is what you are dealing with, acids)
I build handrails. I have made two low cost tanks for longer stock. One is made from pvc gutter from Home Depot. It has a drain valve at one end and is mounted on two planks that are hinged at the drain side. This contraption rests on sawhorses. I lay the stock in with plastic spacers for flow, and cover it with muriatic acid. I drain it off with the valve, acid going through a paint filter on the way to the container. Makes rinsing easy too. The other tank is a 2" pvc pipe with a reducer and hose fitting on one end and an unglued 90 on the other. It's set on an incline with the hose at the lower end. I use it for molded cap rail. I put the stock in, place the 90, and clamp the hose higher than the upper side of the pipe. The 90 makes filling it easy. Btw, I am planning to switch over to vinegar for the next railing job.
This comment will most likely draw attention, but it is what it is I've been breathing in Acid fumes for 22 years the only thing I have noticed is I haven't had a cold or any illness in that time
The best cheapest/ safest/ and fast effective way to remove mill scale an rust is with Harpic 10 x toilet cleaner, have been using it for years now and only £1 a bottle, just wear gloves.
I would just like to say you only get one chance to screw up with muriatic acid. Distilled vinegar is the "safe" choice. Patience will be greatly rewarded. Also, just curious what your rust prevention solution is. Thanks! Not really meaning to criticize but I think you''re a tad under protected in your PPE. You only get one set of eyes, as you said. Only one pair of lungs also!! Thanks for the video!!!
matt myatt thanks. You are probably right. Even though I’m outside I should have PPE on. I use this. amzn.to/2QJJfe4 it’s available in Quarts and Gallons.
@@ManCrafting Thanks for getting back to me! I appreciate the reply and the information!!! I like that the product you referred me to is water based and paintable! I've been a fan of corrosion X. It's a petroleum based lubricant, penetrant, antiseize, and it's electronics safe. It's pretty long term but it isn't paintable or water based. It's great for metals that see a lot of water spray. I fly radio controlled aircraft and the metal parts were always rusting on me. The corrosion x fixed that. Just wipe the corrosion x on the bare metal parts and they don't rust. At least not for the last 3 years!!!! So I'm sold on it. And I don't receive any cash and I'm not associated with the product. Just fyi! Thanks!!!!
At 4.08 you state there is VOC ! to have VOC ( Volatile organic compounds) you need organic compounds muriatic acid is HCl hydrocloridic acid ( not organic compound ) neither the scale or the steel
Maybe not even dilute it for speed since muraiatic acid is what like 20-30% hydrochloride acid and I think they are only like 10% but you can get a lime away from dollar tree I have never used it on mil scale but it's an acid
I did a video on that as well a while back. Thanks. I appreciate the info. If I hadn’t known I’d like for someone to share the info. Have a good weekend.
I’ve tried heating a solution of citric acid and it removed mill scale also. Citric acid is available online, is also a food chemical, and best of all ODORLESS!!
I hate the bait: "later in the video I'll teach you how to keep the flash rust off." Me at the end of the video knowing I'll never know how to keep the flash rust off 😒
to show how ridiculous you are your wearing all that gear for somthing thats as strong as vinegar .. just saying. i come from many years of electroplating back ground... and you look down right silly
Muriatic Acid is way stronger than vinegar. It will absolutely scar your lungs. How about you make a youtube video about how safe it is to breath muriatic acid fumes. Muriatic Acid is a .5 on the pH scale, and vinegar is a 2.5. When I was working only with the vinegar I removed the safety equipment. So no safety equipment when working with something as strong as vinegar.
@@ManCrafting i dont need to do a video there are msds sheets on them that say your an idiot and only in extreme conditions dose it hurt you and thats the same with everything... and i worked and inhaled it for 10 years 8 hours a day and never had issues along with the 50 other people in the shops the company owned...
@@AuditorsUnited I don't believe you. So do the video. Easy to be a keyboard cowboy and talk tough. So much more difficult to actually provide proof. I've inhaled enough to know that I'd prefer not to inhale it. I'm no safety freak, but this stuff will mess up your lungs. BTW msds doesn't exist anymore. They have been Safety Data Sheets for a few years. I also checked the SDS and it definitely does not say that I am an idiot. Also, when calling someone an idiot, it might be a good idea to use "you're not your".
@@AuditorsUnited This is what the SDS says... "Precautionary Statements - Prevention Wash face, hands and any exposed skin thoroughly after handling Do not eat, drink or smoke when using this product Use only outdoors or in a well-ventilated area Do not breathe dust/fume/gas/mist/vapors/spray Wear protective gloves/protective clothing/eye protection/face protection"
@@ManCrafting bleach is 100 time more dangerous than muriatic acid but you don't see people using gas mask to clean the kitchen... fucking sally liberals are so embarrassing to this country
You know....
I just had to come back to this comment section because after having seen a comment stating "your" silly & ridiculous in your safety gear working with muriatic acid, it scares me that people are going to take him seriously and avoid it completely thereby being harmed by that caustic and dangerous acid. Seeing him do so is not only irresponsible but borders on something quite possibly prosecutable should someone take his advice and end up harmed or worse than that dead! He reminds me of "That guy that shows up to the party, no food, no beers, no ice & nobody with him. Yet, he's telling ya how to cook the burgers, the better kind of beer to have, where to get ice cheap and that insanely gorgeous chick he almost brought. Then gets in his car plastered and drives away."
Rag Tie Best comment of the day.
Ummmm what
Huh?
???
Muriatic acid is an acid. Caustic is a base. Completely opposite ends of the pH scale....
Cleaning vinegar " 10% acidity " heated in a crockpot will completely remove your mill scale in 10 mins.. Hope this helps
Thanks Roy. I hope you and the wife are doing well during these crazy times. Thanks for stopping by and taking the time to comment. I appreciate it. I have more tests on this sort of process in the near future. The heat wasn’t in the plan. Maybe I’ll add that.
Just did two large 1.5 x 1 meter sheets with vinegar, took 2 days and worked very well.
Awesome.
You did right by using all your safety equipment, don't listen or waste your time with these knuckle heads who think they no better, as for the results of the white vinegar, you answered my research questions, how did the other white vinegar do as compared to the first test of vinegar? Will this work on auto panels for rust?
I’ve tried several strengths of vinegar since this video always looking for the fastest option while still keeping it safe. The best I have come across was about 2 weeks ago at my buddy JD’s shop. Apex Welding. He had a 99% vinegar. It was removing rust in less than an hour. Didn’t mess up my hands. No strong off gassing. I’ve never seen this in a store, but here’s a link. amzn.to/43muph7 obviously more expensive than the stores 3% or 10%, but if your like me and time is an issue this is amazing.
Thank you so much for this video! My husband and I recently started doing metal work and your video has saved us a ton of hours in cleaning mill scale! Vinegar is a life saver!
Awesome. I always love hearing these comments. It makes the time I spend on these videos worthwhile.
I had thought about doing an epoxy floor coating in my garage and the instructions said to etch it with muriatic acid, but I never got around to it. You exude confidence by working with acid in your best shirt! LOL, thanks for the love Chad!
Steve Carmichael always Steve. Thanks for stopping by. Need to get together soon.
Safety is never silly. Nice comparison of the two methods.
Jodie Grosklags always nice to have a Chemist way in on the matter. Thanks.
Muriatic acid (aka, hydrochloric acid) is an inorganic acid, and the fumes given off during the descaling process are the acid, itself, hydrogen (highly flammable/explosive), and chlorine (highly toxic and corrosive), not VOCs (volatile organic compounds). Vinegar (acetic acid) also gives off hydrogen when it reacts with iron, but not chlorine or other toxins. The reason muriatic acid works better for removing mill scale (and rust and galvanizing zinc) is because it has a pH of less than one, compared to a pH of a little over 2 for vinegar. That means it's more than 10 times as reactive as vinegar at the same concentration. Also, pool acid is usually sold at a concentration of about 15%, while vinegar is usually around 5%. When working with muriatic acid, always cover as much of your skin as possible--long sleeves, long pants, closed shoes, etc.--and use eye protection and work in a very well ventilated area. Staying upwind will usually protect you from the fumes if you use a little common sense, but a chlorine rated respirator is even better. A dust mask or other type of respirator (or one that's not properly fitted or worn out) won't do much of anything to protect you. And remember, the gas can still get in your eyes and on your skin, so staying out of the fumes is the best plan. Also, you can dilute muriatic acid--acid added to water, never the other way around--to make it less dangerous to work with, but it will also take longer to do its thing. I usually wrap paper towels around whatever I'm trying to strip with muriatic acid, place the item outdoors, in the shade, and on a non-reactive surface, and soak the towels in the acid. After 10 - 15 minutes the towels go into a plastic bucket of water with as much baking soda as the water will hold dissolved in it, and the part is rinsed in clean water.
Schuyler Grace excellent explanation. You are correct. I misspoke. They are volatile inorganic compounds vs organic. I should know better. Thanks for taking the time to take this conversation a little deeper.
@@ManCrafting Thank you. and you are welcome. I designed and fabricated a 20-foot steel sculpture this past summer and had to strip the mill scale off of several large pieces of structural steel. When I saw your video, I was reminded of the things I cautioned my assistants about, since they thought pool acid was relatively harmless. Using the paper towel trick is a really good way to keep the acid and its fumes contained, plus you don't have to figure out how to store or get rid of used/contaminated acid--you certainly don't want to pour it back into the jug of fresh acid. Your bucket idea with the strainer inside was a great one for smaller parts, since you can seal the lid and save it for next time. But I couldn't find a bucket that would fit 10-foot, several hundred pound lengths of 0.5" thick, 5.5" square structural steel. Oh, and I now have several pairs of those fashionable, hole-filled jeans all the kids are wearing these days. :^)
Great Tips Chad!!!!! I soaked a rusty drill press in vinegar soaked paper towels over night. Came back the next day to find a sexy metal underneath... I no longer look at something rusty as being bad.. Its pretty awesome stuff.. Another awesome solution is Harbor Freights Evaporust.. Dude.. that stuff is awesome at rust... And you dont have to mess with all the acidity of vinegar.. And its reuseable.. just pour it back in the bottle after every use.... Keep your maker hand strong brother!
WoodenCreationz evaporust is pretty amazing for sure. They also sell it at Tractor Supply. I’m not sure how it will do on Mill Scale. Sounds like another test.
had a piece of round stock and within 2hrs, 5% white Vinegar has already loosened it up that you can start to wipe it off. I ordered up some 30% cleaning vinegar. This is a great process. Thanks
Any time. The 30% is way faster. You’ll be glad you upgraded.
Thanks for the informative vid mate.
I immerse galvanised steel fittings in double strength cleaning vinegar overnight to remove the zinc coating prior to welding. Vinegar definitely works and the stronger the better if in a hurry! You could probably also mix up powdered acetic acid and water but this I haven't tried, since I can usually wait overnight.
I have another video using vinegar and I currently use that more frequently. I also have a 10lb box of citric acid I’ve been wanting to test.
I normally use my Grinder to strip mill scale, but it’s all on longer pieces. I’ll definitely remember this for small stuff. Was there any difference between the white and cleaning vinegar?
I’m telling you. There is no way that the grinder is getting that mill scale off with ought losing metal. It’s unbelievable. Sometimes I get lucky and it will be thinner and come of in seconds. But most of the time it seems like the mill scale is diamond coated. I could tell much difference between the two vinegars. Really close.
@@ManCrafting damn straight, I happen to be a great welder, been using angle grinders forever, but it doesn't matter how good you are, you are always going to eat into material removing scale.
Both contain acetic acid, just in higher concentration in cleaning vinegar. You are better off just buying powdered acetic acid, if that's the way you want to go and dissolving it into water to its max concentration.
Great video. I’ve been using white vinegar for mill-scale removal and it works great.
I actually have a pail inside for this. If I need something quick I have an outside pail with Muriatic Acid.
Just Like Artfully Rouge, I learned the hard way, always outside now.
Man did he ever learn the hard way. Those wings alone. Totally soul-crushing to walk in and see them covered in rust.
I just use my sandblast cabinet. It eliminates rust and mill scale really quickly with no mess. I use a lot of air tools and a plasma cutter so I already have a moderate size air compressor (11.8 CFM) with a DIY after cooler that will maintain 100 psi of dry air in the line with the cabinet in use.
Sounds like a great setup. Lots of advantages to using a sand blaster for sure.
Thank you for this video.
Thanks for watching!
Thanks for doing the test, I'm now subscribed.
Thanks for watching, subscribing and taking a minute to comment. I really appreciate it.
The link for the rust inhibitor doesn’t find the product (at least not anymore).
What’s the brand/product name ?
I made a portable bandsaw table with a 12" x 12" x1/4" plate. I soaked the plate in a shallow tub of cooking vinegar for 4 hours. I scrubed it with a heavy duty paint stripping pad and it came out completely clean. Vinegars a pretty good option if you have the time or want to minimize the hazards.
I posted a video using vinegar a few years ago. I should link the two videos.
If you really want to increase the speed you can try warming it close to boiling. But really, citric acid can be made stronger than vinegar.
What rust inhibitor are you using.
Great video. I am making a large smoker and would like to clean the coating off the steel and then get a patina look with linseed oil. If I soaked rags with Muratic acid and laid it over top the large pieces and washed it off or brushed it on would that work? It is too large to soak. Look forward to hearing from you.
I’ve done that. Cover it with plastic to slow evaporation.
I will try that. Thank you!!
I generally leave it over night in vinegar and works really well. 5 euro for 5 liters of white vinegar.
I don't need to worry about the acid safety issues.
And I'm rarely in such a hurry that I need any quicker, on the occasions I do I use a Silicon Carbide grinding disc.
Can vouch for that, I left a small SEALED heavy-duty plastic bottle of muriatic in my workshop for a short while and everything that could rust, did rust. Sorry for your loss.
That’s a bummer. This could help in a situation like that. amzn.to/2B5JBpV
Hi, I use white vinegar to de-rust items and it works great and I normally only leave it in for 24 hours ( I have left it in for a week when the rust is very bad) but that was just once. I am not quite sure what mill scale is but I know that the vinegar works with rust.
Thanks. I had used Vinegar for rust as well. I didn't consider trying it for Mill Scale until the comment I referred to in the article. Mill scale is a black coating that forms when steel is hot rolled or formed. It's a magnetic oxide. I actually inadvertantly left one piece in the vinegar from Sunday to Sunday and it looked great. No etching to the metal at all, which is great because if I had done the same thing in the Muriatic Acid it would be etched and uneven.
i leave old bolts for months in vinegar for months. Came out fine. Just depends what your going to use the part for.
@@jimmyschmidt14 No. Vinegar will etch if left for significant amounts of time. You may not have noticed a problem with some bolts, however they undoubtedly are out of spec compared to normal ones. Depends on what they're being used for.
Fantastic job Chad. I am glad that there is a safer alternative out there for this type of work. Happy welding!
Thanks Tracy. Even if you're wanting to remove rust it will work.
You remind me alot of myself in the way you express yourself in this video. LOL It also turns out were are into the same things (welding, powder coat, etc) thanks for the video. I hope to see more of your work.
Thanks. Checking out some of your vids as well. Scalability.
@@ManCrafting Hey I been doing the Vinegar thing and its only taking 2 hours on a 80 degree day. (San Diego) I take the steel out and dry it with a napkin and bump it with a orbital sander and an old 150 grit paper. While the scale is still semi attached it turned into almost hard chalk and sands away in about 20-30 seconds. Unreal. I feel with some tinkering I could even make the process faster!... I have a 4 year old and I am afraid of the acid.
@@iheart3dprinting951 Nothing wrong with being concerned about the safety of your young ones or yourself.
Hello, What did you spray on the bare metal after it was cleaned to prevent flash rust?
It’s a product that prevents the metal from flash rusting. amzn.to/2Rx5jIy
Great video with lots of good info, well done Chad.
Thanks Dan. How you doing. We haven't talked in a while.
@@ManCrafting I'm well, thanks.
You are not being ridiculous with your safety gear... Of course not. In fact, it is mandatory in any shop that recognizes OSHA or any safety requirements, and it is recommended on all the labels and the MSDS sheets. I ran the coatings, waterproofing, painting, finishing, and graffiti sections, as well as the Hazard Waste, for a prominent City for 20 years, as a Supervisor. Muriatic acid and other acids were an integral part of our metal work coatings, including trailers water treatment plants vehicles equipment machinery etc. Not one project was ever attempted without the safety gear and even more than what you have there, suits made for SCBA's . As a content Creator here demonstrating your process in this video I can honestly say you are spot on! there is nothing wrong with recommending safety gear when attempting projects that could have detrimental effects to your well-being. Great video! And yes you are correct, soda ash, which is the main ingredient in many products such as baking soda, baking powder, even Alka-Seltzer and antacids is a natural neutralizer of most acids. Neutralizing them to the point they can be fully washed down the drain with no problem to the environment..
Always nice having an actual expert comment on a video and let you know you're doing something correctly. I may "look ridiculous and silly" and "sound so stupid" to some, but it's people like you whose words actually have a value that I listen to. My wife is the safety officer at a large lab and she will have plenty to say when she sees that comment. ;-)
Absolutely correct! I hold a degree in Chemistry and serve as our Chemical Hygiene Officer for the lab. Wearing PPE ( personal protective equipment) is a must. Anyone suggesting otherwise is simply being irresponsible.
@@ManCrafting I just thought a professional word or two on the matter would be considered by those watching this video and quite possibly be considering the use of the Acid. And to be frank,..in all my years I've only seen and/or heard of but a few actually speak directly to "Not using Safety precautions & gear"... even calling it silly. There's a reason those areas of a playing shop are not allowed to the public. They're caustic, toxic & dangerous. To even suggest otherwise, is indeed dangerous....and "ridiculous and silly"
How many times could you use the vinegar before it stops working? 🤔
Great question. A long time and adding a little more keeps it going.
I just used the vinegar and let it sit over night.. woo! Came off so nice lol love it! Stinky but I'd rather smell that then take a chance with the other stuff 😆
Interesting about the vinegar-I did not try it for long enough when I tried it. Thanks for the information/video.
Thanks for watching and taking a minute to comment. I really appreciate it.
Citric acid works very well too, and comes in granular form to make your own acid concentrations!
I have a 10lb bag of it in the basement. I’ve been meaning to experiment with it for a while.
@@ManCrafting It's slow-ish like acetic acid, but yea, better storage and mixing capabilities. Oh, and environmentally safe.
Question: I have several 4'x4' 3/8 mild steel plates that need de-scaling. Can't put them in a bucket. How would you go about it for both methods. Thankx
Fatty Fat-Fat great question. Actually answered earlier in this comment section. Soak paper towels with muriatic acid and spread on the metal. Vinegar would probably work as well, you’ll just need to keep the paper towels moist with fresh vinegar. Maybe use a sprayer.
@@ManCrafting I'm building a welding/prep table right now and that is
my plan. Old rags or towels, maybe blankets...
get an air mattress and cut the top out, so you have a bath with sides, you roll the sides in to match the piece and pour away
Hey I am from India and I run a steel factory. We deal with hot rolling that includes billets and structural steel. On an average mill scale formed is somewhere between 12-15 kg per ton. I was hoping to get some insight on how to avoid formation of mill scale. If you have any insight please do share. Thanks
Mate, in simple process steel milling there is not a great deal that can be done about mill scale.
in Very high end steel milling they dramatically reduce or eliminate mill scale by excluding oxygen in the process by working in or flooding the material with an inert gas .... but this is incredibly expensive.
To a certain extent you should be thankfull for the mill scale because it protects the steel in the short from from rusting.
If you remove the mill scale you MUST immediately coat it with something to protect it.
You may reduce mill scale to some extent by tightly controlling the process .... this would be reasonably high technology steel milling.
Great stuff!
Patrick O'Loughlin thanks.
I know I should remove mill scale before welding with my everlast flux core welder but I've always hated doing it. I've got some options now thanks.
I’ve used angle grinders, but I would go through a bunch of abrasives before I’d get through this stuff.
What was the rust inhibitor that was used?
Baking Soda and water.
I want to know what the tool you make using those disks is.
They are part of the powder coating stands for tumblers.
Nice vid, but you never shared what you sprayed to inhibit the rust afterwards
Great comparison Chad!
Thanks Greg. Also don’t think that I ignored your advice. It rings through my head every time I go to finish a video. I just haven’t made time to make changes I’ll be happy with.
I use cleaning vinegar for rust. It’s a bit stronger a 6 percent vs 4, I think. I just scotch brite mill scale.
Then he puts up cleaning vinegar. I’m a day late and a dollar short
@@chuckcopelin517 hahah. I was about to mention that. 👍🏼
no sure...maybe I missed it but...how long to it take with the vinegar to remove to mill scale?
Jacob A. Hull it took about 6 hours to get all the heavy mill scale off. I normally throw it in the bucket overnight.
Hi
whats in the spray bottle ? as an anti rust ?
Quart Size Rust Remover amzn.to/2EXPRiU
10% cleaning vinegar works for me in about 3 or 4 hours or so by wiping it by hand or using a dish sponge / green scouring pad. The bonds weaken, but not enough to dissolve without manual wiping or agitation. I wonder if you could scale up the process with a sous vide wand circulating hot vinegar. One comment below said heating up the vinegar in a crockpot made it take only 10 minutes. :o
I actually have a video on that. I keep a 5 gallon bucket with a few gallons in it for that purpose. It doesn’t cause anything in the shop to rust which is nice.
Did you mix vinegar with water or just 100%vinegar?
So how long did u end up leaving it in the white vinegar?
kevin carmichael I set and forget until the next day normally. I did forget I put it in there and had some etching after a week or two.
You are further slowing down the vinegar by covering it with a lid. It needs to have access to air. White vinegar works fine overnight. Use baking soda water to stop the acid action. Been using white vinegar for decades for removing rust and forging scale.
All he said about muriatic acid is true. Happened to me. Jasco metal etch "PHOSPHORIC ACID" does the same thing, does not rust other things around, does not burn the skin and no fumes that will burn you eyes. I just tested this yesterday and it takes about 2 hours and the mill scale just fell off. quick wipe with a wire wheel and the metal was bright and shiny.
what he says about rusting other things in the shop is completely true. it's the reason I will be using Jasco from now on.
Vinegar and citric acid are other options as well.
I use white vinegar at 45%. It's a lot stronger than what you buy at the store and safer than the acid if you're not sure what you are doing.
I found out about 45% back in Feb when I was helping a friend with restoration of an old metal lathe. I ordered some immediately.
Nice comparison, thanks for sharing! I’ve used it but even cleaning vinegar was to slow for me! I typically use Evaporust but I’ve actually used acid out of a car battery when I had to replace mine! I’d like to try mixing powdered citric acid or maybe electrolysis in the future!
You’re making me want to try all of these. 🤦🏻♂️
Never tried vinegar. Would be interested to see if over night soak would remove plasma dross. Either way have used Muratic Acid for years mixed 4 parts water and 1 part MA. Tub is set up to use outside. Only out gassing I get is when a new gallon is added. After that non that I have ever seen and not burning sensation of lungs. Also works great to get the neck of a toilet clean, when you have plugging problems pour in half gallon and let sit with door closed. Will burn lungs so be very careful. I use heavy rubber or pvc coated gloves., not the thin latex. Soak parts in baking soda with a small dab of sodium nitrite for an hour. Neutralizes and prevents rust or at least minimizes it.
I’m with you on the Muriatic acid. That was my original method and I did a video on that years ago. Got a lot of people crying about toxicity etc... so when I saw this method I thought I’d give it a try. One advantage of this method over Muriatic acid is I can leave it for weeks with no further etching of the metal. If I leave it for too long in the Muriatic acid it will continue to etch the metal. That said, if I’m in a hurry I will always turn to Muriatic acid. And you are accurate. Baking soda (haven’t added sodium nitrate) will neutralize the acids. I’ll try adding some sodium nitrate in the future to the mix. I had that on my to order list for a while for another purpose. This will push me to do it.
Oh and as for dross, I’ll give it a try, but my guess is no. It doesn’t seem to impact the metal.
@@ManCrafting About the toxicity issue....they do use it in swimming pools to balance the PH....just saying.But also realize that full strength and diluted are two different things.
JSMetalcraft as a chemist, I am well aware of the misuse of the word toxic. The American Chemical Society has a saying “there’s no such thing as a toxic chemical, only a toxic dose.” Then there has to be exposure. Inhaled, ingested or absorbed through the skin.
What’s the name of the rust prevention spray u use after removing it from the acid?
amzn.to/3wFkdjj
I used citric acid powder with water to remove zinc coating from steel and it worked well. The same citric acid may work well on rust
Not sure who or where i originally heard this from, but I’ve had a 10lb box in the basement for years to excitement with. Thanks for the reminder.
How long do you leave it in citric acid? And do you have to use baking soda?
How long do you leave it in citric acid? And do you have to use baking soda?
@@TheTank8 think it was an hour or so to remove zinc. Probably a few hours for mill scale
And havent used baking soda
Great video. For me I found the safest, fastest way to remove mill scale is to simply put the parts in the cabinet blaster and with aluminum oxide just blast the stuff off.
You must have a way better setup than me. My cabinet has a 30gallon compressor and it’s not enough. I plan on running a line from my 60 gallon hoping that’s adequate. Then I may do it that way instead. I’ll let you know.
@@ManCrafting connect the 60 to the 30 in parallel. Two easy ways. One is run the two into a storage tank like Lowe's 7 gallon already had the air fitting. Use a t fitting and then run off the air tank . Or on the regulator of the 30 if you look there maybe another port to be able to put in a fitting. Or remove the safety valve and use that entrance. As long as there is one safety valve between the two it will bleed pressure in the rare event compressor doesn't shut off. If there different psi set the regulator of the highest to the max of the lower one. Done this for years and years.
You can even set the second one at a lower psi as like a back up then it'll come on and even tie in a 3rd that only comes on at a lower psi. Works great I use this to paint and keep everything portable and not need 220
Great video sir.
Safety comes always first.
Using a respirator is the least you can do to save your (worker's) wind pipe from the corrosive acid fumes.
I suggest, instead of using chemicals, use simple 'wet blasting' or 'vapor blasting' for faster & better results. If your HR components is a continuous process then it will be more economical as well. This kind of blasting is fully safe for humans & the environment with practically zero chemical sludge.
Used some cleaning vinegar (10%), twice as strong as cooking vinegar (5%) the cleaning vinegar worked great.
It definitely works.
If you plan to spray paint them a flap disk works for me. Especially on a larger project.
Some of the mill scale on these is so thick that i can go through an entire flap disk on one 6" round plate, and the metal will give way and start gouging anywhere you do manage to break through the mill scale. I've had time that it will come of easy or there is so little that it doesn't need much more than a wire wheel. But sometimes...
Awesome channel my friend! I enjoyed this a lot! Huge congrats on your channel success so far, keep it up! 🤓👊
The People's Bookkeeper thanks for watching and especially for taking a minute to comment. I really appreciate it. 👊🏼🔥👊🏼
Best way to remove mill scale is to not buy metal with mill scale. Use pickled or cold rolled if available.
I buy cold rolled when possible for my plasma CNC, these were drops I was getting for cheap.
I don't know about the comments comment is vinegar really any better in those ways aside from that it's weker and or more dilute if you dilute the muriatic acid it would be about the same in most cases without the smell or not as bad of a smell
Great question. I’m not really sure.
Great info thank you.
Restoration Australia thanks for taking a minute to comment. I actually have a third video on this coming. If you haven’t seen the first check it out as well.
Restoration Australia here. ua-cam.com/video/zc4YRFCMyfc/v-deo.html
@@ManCrafting I will thanks.
You can also get glacial acetic acid, which is "pure" acetic acid, where white vinegar is only 5-20 percent. I'd imagine glacial acetic would be much faster than typical vinegar.
Thats probably pretty expensive compared to regular vinegar. If you want a cheap, better than vinegar yet still safe, consider citric acid.
You add it to water, and if you want it stronger, you add more.
@@boots7859 I've tried citric acid, and it definitely was not better than vinegar. It left a sticky residue on the parts that i still had to remove before welding.
Used the 30% this weekend on several pieces of angle iron. Noticed by the 1 hour mark that the scale could be easily removed with abrasive similar to thin paint or rust and had none of the hard characteristics of the scale like the annoying glaze over.
Awesome. I need to rewatch this. I have used the 30% since not sure what % I used in this video.
@@ManCrafting
Did the 30% strength vinegar work noticeably faster? I want to remove mill scale from the top of my welding table but not sure how to keep the vinegar in place - not able to submerge the entire 3x5 feet top in the solution.
@@vkrestan it is faster. If I needed to do that I’d soak towels, rags or paper towels and cover with Saran Wrap. It will do the job.
Great tip, thanks
Thanks! Are you going to the Atlanta Maker Faire this year? If so, are you getting a booth? I can't decide if I want to do a booth or just do what I normally do. Wander around and see all the other amazing things.
@@ManCrafting I'm not sure yet. If I am able to go, I will just be a viewer.
There is 30% vinegar heated I wonder if that would speed the process up
Just tried 30% Vinegar I got at Lowe's, already had stuff coming off in 10 mins, will update
Michael Roach I just brought a gallon home Friday. Seems to work pretty well. I’m happy to keep it in my covered area. I couldn’t get away with that using muriatic acid.
@@ManCrafting was looking for a way to prevent the flash rust, it's not a huge deal to me, but saves wiping it again with a scotch pad.
I'm mostly doing tubing, so I bought an "under-the-bed" type storage container. I'm putting plastic end caps on the tube when I put it in. It doesn't completely block the vinegar from going inside, but it's better than nothing.
My findings so far for tubing.
5% vinegar is 12-24 hours
30% vinegar 4 hours
I can't justify buying 6 gallons of 30% vinegar ($20/gallon), so I'm going to dilute it with the 5% (instead of water).
Muratic acid will last Forever (practically). I had about 2 gallons in a storage tub, outdoors, behind the garage since about 2017. This Summer (2021) I had to do some de-rusting. Stuff still works great!
It loses its strength with use more than time. I pour a little more in and it’s like new.
Just the fact that I can see the fumes coming off that muriatic acid is enough to scare me off. I'll just plan ahead and soak my stuff longer. Of course, if you do this sort of thing for a living that might not be an option, you might have to go with a stronger acid.
Muriatic acid is nothing to play around with.
I still find muriatic acid the quickest and cost effective method for sure
I'm with you Doug. It's definitely fastest. The downside is just the off-gas can rust everything in your shop as you well know. If your planning ahead an overnight soak in white vinegar and bob's your uncle. Also, I left a disc in vinegar for a week and it did no damage to the metal. That's a nice benefit. It's nice to have options. I personally will continue to use muriatic acid more often than not though.
@@ManCrafting Agreed, I use hydrochloric acid always for removing scale nowadays, for parts in my shop. Vinegar is great if you are a hobbiest, but I simply can't wait the ridiculous amounts of time required.
Maybe this has been commented on. I use white cleaning vinegar, 24 hours and have to whipe it off.
I’ve tried it. It seems to be the same as distilled white vinegar. There is also a 30% white cleaning vinegar. It’s about 10x the cost. It would have to be Muriatic Acid fast to be worth the price for me.
I'm a little late to the video conversation, but this has been amazing research for me. Im in the process of making protective plates for my plate carrier out of AR600 steel and sitting in front of a sandblasting cabinet for hours sucks. I'm going to go get some distilled white vinegar and try this out. Oh and sorry you have to deal with morons like the gentleman arguing about your PPE. I was a lead safety tech and dealt with SDS's (formerly known as MSDS's) quite a bit so I looked up Muriatic Acid and sure enough..
H31: Toxic if inhaled.
Respiratory Equipment: "Where vapor concentrations exceeds or is likely to exceed applicable exposure limits, a NIOSH approved respirator with acid gas cartridges is required."
So by all means keep doing what your doing! I have a lot of respect for people who take their safety seriously!
Thanks for the in-depth and well thought out comment. My industry relies heavily on SDS to the extent they are required in the office and on the vehicles. So I’m very familiar as well and have looked that up too. It’s no joke breathing it in. The Other commenter had to be using a diluted version at work. There’s no way I could sandblast some of these plates. Occasionally I get one with thin mill scale that could be removed with abrasive on an angle grinder but sandblasting would be exhausting.
@@ManCrafting yeah I'm sure he was using a diluted mixture for sure as most companies do. He definitely could have said what he wanted a little more professionally if he disagrees lol. But where there is social media type atmospheres there will be trolls! What is your instagram?
@@ManCrafting oh and you are very welcome!!
Eric Henderson same as here. ManCrafting. Thanks.
Phosphoric acid is a lot safer than muriatic acid and will do a better/quicker job than the vinegar.
Muriatic acid does not contain constituents that qualify as volatile organic compounds (VOC) based on the definition in 40 CFR 51.100. HAP
Fumes yes, VOC's no. Muriatic acid doesn't have organics in it.
Thanks. That’s actually been addressed. I am aware I misspoke in the video. Doesn’t change the message.
VOC = volatile organic compound. Acid fumes are not VOC's. As they are not organic compounds. They are inorganic compounds.
(just as an fyi)
And caustic means base (vs the other end of the spectrum which is what you are dealing with, acids)
Thanks. After the first comment I realized the error of my description. I really should know better.
So what do you do when you have pieces that are too large to fit in a 5 gallon bucket?
I get creative. Soak the part down and wrap in plastic. Lay it in a long shallow tub and immerse. Whatever it takes.
I build handrails. I have made two low cost tanks for longer stock. One is made from pvc gutter from Home Depot. It has a drain valve at one end and is mounted on two planks that are hinged at the drain side. This contraption rests on sawhorses. I lay the stock in with plastic spacers for flow, and cover it with muriatic acid. I drain it off with the valve, acid going through a paint filter on the way to the container. Makes rinsing easy too. The other tank is a 2" pvc pipe with a reducer and hose fitting on one end and an unglued 90 on the other. It's set on an incline with the hose at the lower end. I use it for molded cap rail. I put the stock in, place the 90, and clamp the hose higher than the upper side of the pipe. The 90 makes filling it easy.
Btw, I am planning to switch over to vinegar for the next railing job.
This comment will most likely draw attention, but it is what it is I've been breathing in Acid fumes for 22 years the only thing I have noticed is I haven't had a cold or any illness in that time
I hope that holds true. I suppose it depends on the acid concentration and the amount of air moving in the area. Have you had a chest x-ray?
@@ManCrafting yeah my lungs are excellent for my age
oooo interesting
This is good info for when you start welding and start JP Metalwork.
The best cheapest/ safest/ and fast effective way to remove mill scale an rust is with Harpic 10 x toilet cleaner, have been using it for years now and only £1 a bottle, just wear gloves.
I’ve not heard of this product. I’ll check it out.
I would just like to say you only get one chance to screw up with muriatic acid. Distilled vinegar is the "safe" choice. Patience will be greatly rewarded. Also, just curious what your rust prevention solution is. Thanks! Not really meaning to criticize but I think you''re a tad under protected in your PPE. You only get one set of eyes, as you said. Only one pair of lungs also!!
Thanks for the video!!!
matt myatt thanks. You are probably right. Even though I’m outside I should have PPE on. I use this. amzn.to/2QJJfe4 it’s available in Quarts and Gallons.
@@ManCrafting Thanks for getting back to me! I appreciate the reply and the information!!! I like that the product you referred me to is water based and paintable! I've been a fan of corrosion X. It's a petroleum based lubricant, penetrant, antiseize, and it's electronics safe. It's pretty long term but it isn't paintable or water based. It's great for metals that see a lot of water spray. I fly radio controlled aircraft and the metal parts were always rusting on me. The corrosion x fixed that. Just wipe the corrosion x on the bare metal parts and they don't rust. At least not for the last 3 years!!!! So I'm sold on it. And I don't receive any cash and I'm not associated with the product. Just fyi! Thanks!!!!
matt myatt I will definitely check into it. I certainly have applications where that would be more suited. Thanks.
At 4.08 you state there is VOC ! to have VOC ( Volatile organic compounds) you need organic compounds muriatic acid is HCl hydrocloridic acid ( not organic compound ) neither the scale or the steel
Made a mistake. Already been addressed. I just meant there are volatile compounds.
There is a stronger vinegar. It's called cleaning vinegar. The acidity is 6 percent, good grade is 5 .
MrDmorgan52 if you look close and somewhere in the video I actually mention that I’m using cleaning vinegar.
vinegar works great, just takes longer, and its cheaper too
It definitely works. You just need to plan ahead.
Honestly I hate the smell of vinegar to much I'd use an acid toilet bowl cleaner just mixed with water
Interesting. I’m looking at another option that may be feasible.
Maybe not even dilute it for speed since muraiatic acid is what like 20-30% hydrochloride acid and I think they are only like 10% but you can get a lime away from dollar tree I have never used it on mil scale but it's an acid
48 hours vinegar sctchbrite rubs it right off acid is a pain.
I did a video on that as well a while back. Thanks. I appreciate the info. If I hadn’t known I’d like for someone to share the info. Have a good weekend.
I’ve tried heating a solution of citric acid and it removed mill scale also. Citric acid is available online, is also a food chemical, and best of all ODORLESS!!
I just pre-plan a bit and use vinegar it may take longer but at least I'm not killing myself
Vinegar works. 👍🏼
By VOC you mean hydrogen chloride gas
use 30% vinegar (cleaning strength)
I hate the bait: "later in the video I'll teach you how to keep the flash rust off." Me at the end of the video knowing I'll never know how to keep the flash rust off 😒
Love your comment.
to show how ridiculous you are your wearing all that gear for somthing thats as strong as vinegar .. just saying. i come from many years of electroplating back ground... and you look down right silly
Muriatic Acid is way stronger than vinegar. It will absolutely scar your lungs. How about you make a youtube video about how safe it is to breath muriatic acid fumes. Muriatic Acid is a .5 on the pH scale, and vinegar is a 2.5. When I was working only with the vinegar I removed the safety equipment. So no safety equipment when working with something as strong as vinegar.
@@ManCrafting i dont need to do a video there are msds sheets on them that say your an idiot and only in extreme conditions dose it hurt you and thats the same with everything... and i worked and inhaled it for 10 years 8 hours a day and never had issues along with the 50 other people in the shops the company owned...
@@AuditorsUnited I don't believe you. So do the video. Easy to be a keyboard cowboy and talk tough. So much more difficult to actually provide proof. I've inhaled enough to know that I'd prefer not to inhale it. I'm no safety freak, but this stuff will mess up your lungs. BTW msds doesn't exist anymore. They have been Safety Data Sheets for a few years. I also checked the SDS and it definitely does not say that I am an idiot. Also, when calling someone an idiot, it might be a good idea to use "you're not your".
@@AuditorsUnited This is what the SDS says...
"Precautionary Statements - Prevention
Wash face, hands and any exposed skin thoroughly after handling
Do not eat, drink or smoke when using this product
Use only outdoors or in a well-ventilated area
Do not breathe dust/fume/gas/mist/vapors/spray
Wear protective gloves/protective clothing/eye protection/face protection"
@@ManCrafting bleach is 100 time more dangerous than muriatic acid but you don't see people using gas mask to clean the kitchen... fucking sally liberals are so embarrassing to this country