Fridging is a legitimate writing trope that can work well, it's use is to explain/present a traumatic event to push the character(s) forward in the plot/story. Fridging works better on a character(s) that we already know about and are connected to and are important to the primary character, and the character(s) gender is irrelevant.
Er, "Fridging" is now recognized as a fallacy. Spider-Man was spurred on by his uncle's death, Batman lost both of his parents, Luke Skywalker lost his aunt & uncle, John Wick lost his dog, etc. etc. etc. etc. In each case, those characters met the criteria otherwise set out, but for some reason Gail only considered it bad when it was done to a lone woman...
Is it true that your work can be public and people can steal your ideas, or is that fixed? I'm just checking because I'm new and I want to use this website but I don't want years work to go to waste.
The best one is the Maltese Falcon, "the stuff dreams are made of." The best part is that Sam doesn't really care about it; it's just a means to an end for him, giving him an edge on everyone else.
Regarding fridging, while kind of bad, it also kind of works as a traumatic event for a character arc. Expanding a bit, is it still fridging if in war films where a soldier starts talking about his girl back home, dog, blah blah, purely to deepen the impact of their death on their comrades later?
From my understanding, fridging is mostly a negative trope when the fridged woman has little to no character development beyond simply inspiring the hero to go on his journey. If she were to be well developed as a character (hopes, dreams, fears, conflict, etc) and *then* die, I (personally) wouldn’t consider it bad either. As for the war story, I’d say it doesn’t quite qualify as fridging, as by discussing his life back home, he’s showing some dimension to his comrades.
@@alcahuetasanonymous That's not the proper definition, that's the political/social justice assertion but it's not how the trope is used. Fridging is the elimination of a character close to the protagonist in order to push their story forward, developing the protagonist further. Many examples can be given regarding underdeveloped characters but the same can be said for developed characters, it just depends on the story, genre and franchise. We don't always need the fridged character to be super developed to sympathize more with the protagonist, their trauma, and their story. Also, it could work in a war story, it just depends on the specifics. Saving Private Ryan is a good example of this... (Spoilers) Vin Diesel's character was eliminated while saving a child whom I believe he said reminded him of his niece, which progressed both his and the squads stories (technically that of the girl's too). He was fridged.
@@WorldAnvil His dog was the fridged character. The trope requires the elimination of a character close to the protagonist, not specifically a woman. Unfortunately, Gail Simone's influence and other's in the industry pushed a legitimate trope into a political issue, hence Gail Simone's notoriety.
I am reading some comments about "fridging." I believe the discussion here is healthy and interesting, and I want to give my input about it: At some point, in one of my (many) projects, I thought I could add more drama and depth with a "fridging" kind of situation for a main character. After some consideration, I concluded that I was falling into a "slippery slope" fallacy. I believe Janet's point was that "fridging" situations should be avoided because is very easy to fall into pitfalls like I did. Walking around the edge of a precipice is dangerous, especially if you are not a mountain climber expert, likewise, an amateur writer (ergo ME) should avoid "fridging", or at least ask some pro their opinion.
I think I might have an interesting one. It's from sci-fi instead of fantasy, but I think is really good. The wormhole knowledge in John Crichtons' head from the TV show Farscape.
Some argue a true Mcguffin is an object with a use that is entirely off-camera and irrelevant to the action. it's power in the story is only because everyone is chasing it. The ring of power makes Frodo invisible, so might not quality, because it is useful in the moment.
I agree. A true MacGuffin's specific characteristics can not and do not matter to the plot beyond just being "an item greatly desired." The One Ring in LOTR is not a MacGuffin. If it were just some rando item that everyone wants (i.e. a MacGuffin) the plot of the story would be completely different. The Maltese Falcon could readily be substituted with "the big shiny saleable object" and it would not change anything. It is a MacGuffin. Conversely the Letters of Transit in Casablanca, could not be traded out for "a big wad of valuable stuff" in that story without completely re-working the plot. They are NOT a MacGuffin.
interesting video. I usually tend to try and avoid full on McGuffins that are so handwaved that they incidentally mean nothing but are only used to drive the plot forward. It's good to flesh out the plot devices more, but does that argue the goal of the story is no longer considered a McGuffin? Or has the term been more widely accepted to simply mean anything that drives the plot regardless of actual function (or lack thereof)?
That's a good question. Is there a point where a MacGuffin becomes too functionally important to be a MacGuffin? It would be hard to know where that point is... 🤔
@WorldAnvil I personally feel like calling it a McGuffin is basically a way of saying that isn't very functional at all, or what it claims to do doesn't make any sense, but I know the term has been stretched over time. By broadening the scope of what McGuffin means, it basically creates the theory that there is always a McGuffin in everything 😅
Hey, just wanted to let you know that UA-cam is playing your video with weird AI generated audio for other languages. You can probably fix that somewhere in the settings.
Some things that get lumped in with MacGuffins are not MacGuffins. The One Ring in LOTR is effectively a character, and its characteristics strongly affect the plot. The glowy thing in the brief case in Pulp Fiction is a pure MacGuffin and was intended as such. The Maltese Falcon in The Maltese Falcon is 95% MacGuffin, the 5% is that it is revealed to be worthless in the end, so it gets to carry a certain amount of non-MacGuffin irony. On the other side of the ledger, the Letters of Transit in Casablanca are NOT a MacGuffin, they are not just some random goal or motivation. They characteristics of the item, and what they represent, are directly important to the plot they are distinctly NOT a MacGuffin.
To be fair fridging has nothing to do with male or female. It is when *anyone* is butchered to drive the plot. It teaches us that the solution to violence is more violence. Garbage in /. Garbage out. History repeating. It doesn't matter who is killed. If the ONLY reason a character dies is to move the plot forward it is bad writing.
Fridging is a legitimate writing trope that can work well, it's use is to explain/present a traumatic event to push the character(s) forward in the plot/story. Fridging works better on a character(s) that we already know about and are connected to and are important to the primary character, and the character(s) gender is irrelevant.
Er, "Fridging" is now recognized as a fallacy. Spider-Man was spurred on by his uncle's death, Batman lost both of his parents, Luke Skywalker lost his aunt & uncle, John Wick lost his dog, etc. etc. etc. etc. In each case, those characters met the criteria otherwise set out, but for some reason Gail only considered it bad when it was done to a lone woman...
My favourite McGuffin is R2D2! George Lucas himself calls him a McGuffin and it makes total sense...
Though wouldn't the McGuffin actually be the plans for the death star that he was carrying?
It's a MacGuffin with a MacGuffin! MacGuffinception!
Is it true that your work can be public and people can steal your ideas, or is that fixed? I'm just checking because I'm new and I want to use this website but I don't want years work to go to waste.
The best one is the Maltese Falcon, "the stuff dreams are made of." The best part is that Sam doesn't really care about it; it's just a means to an end for him, giving him an edge on everyone else.
It's a great example.
The first MacGuffin that came to my head was Marilyn Monroe‘s jacket from the movie “Wonder Boys”
In Arcane season 1, the hex gem that Jinx stole is a macguffin. Then in season 2, Jinx herself becomes the macguffin.
Regarding fridging, while kind of bad, it also kind of works as a traumatic event for a character arc. Expanding a bit, is it still fridging if in war films where a soldier starts talking about his girl back home, dog, blah blah, purely to deepen the impact of their death on their comrades later?
From my understanding, fridging is mostly a negative trope when the fridged woman has little to no character development beyond simply inspiring the hero to go on his journey. If she were to be well developed as a character (hopes, dreams, fears, conflict, etc) and *then* die, I (personally) wouldn’t consider it bad either.
As for the war story, I’d say it doesn’t quite qualify as fridging, as by discussing his life back home, he’s showing some dimension to his comrades.
@@alcahuetasanonymous That's not the proper definition, that's the political/social justice assertion but it's not how the trope is used.
Fridging is the elimination of a character close to the protagonist in order to push their story forward, developing the protagonist further.
Many examples can be given regarding underdeveloped characters but the same can be said for developed characters, it just depends on the story, genre and franchise. We don't always need the fridged character to be super developed to sympathize more with the protagonist, their trauma, and their story.
Also, it could work in a war story, it just depends on the specifics. Saving Private Ryan is a good example of this... (Spoilers) Vin Diesel's character was eliminated while saving a child whom I believe he said reminded him of his niece, which progressed both his and the squads stories (technically that of the girl's too). He was fridged.
the maltese falcon, the mutant cure, pulp fiction suitcase, titanic necklace of course
The Heart of the Ocean! 💙
John Wick uses Fridging...
Does it? He seemed at peace with his wife's passing - it was the dog that got him riled up.
@@WorldAnvil His dog was the fridged character. The trope requires the elimination of a character close to the protagonist, not specifically a woman.
Unfortunately, Gail Simone's influence and other's in the industry pushed a legitimate trope into a political issue, hence Gail Simone's notoriety.
Since it's that time if year, the star from Wakko's Wish would be my favourite MacGuffin.
Nice!
I like The Drinker's term for a bad MacGuffin, which is calls a magic bullshit device.
🤣
I think there are a few instances where they have to safe/rescue 'Christmas'
The Horcruxes in Harry Potter are an example of a multi-piece MacGuffin done alright. Not amazingly, but pretty well.
I am reading some comments about "fridging." I believe the discussion here is healthy and interesting, and I want to give my input about it: At some point, in one of my (many) projects, I thought I could add more drama and depth with a "fridging" kind of situation for a main character. After some consideration, I concluded that I was falling into a "slippery slope" fallacy. I believe Janet's point was that "fridging" situations should be avoided because is very easy to fall into pitfalls like I did. Walking around the edge of a precipice is dangerous, especially if you are not a mountain climber expert, likewise, an amateur writer (ergo ME) should avoid "fridging", or at least ask some pro their opinion.
GREAT video! Educational as always!!!
Yay! Thank you!
My favourite has to be The Dude's rug from The Big Labowski
I think I might have an interesting one. It's from sci-fi instead of fantasy, but I think is really good. The wormhole knowledge in John Crichtons' head from the TV show Farscape.
Some argue a true Mcguffin is an object with a use that is entirely off-camera and irrelevant to the action. it's power in the story is only because everyone is chasing it. The ring of power makes Frodo invisible, so might not quality, because it is useful in the moment.
I agree. A true MacGuffin's specific characteristics can not and do not matter to the plot beyond just being "an item greatly desired." The One Ring in LOTR is not a MacGuffin. If it were just some rando item that everyone wants (i.e. a MacGuffin) the plot of the story would be completely different. The Maltese Falcon could readily be substituted with "the big shiny saleable object" and it would not change anything. It is a MacGuffin. Conversely the Letters of Transit in Casablanca, could not be traded out for "a big wad of valuable stuff" in that story without completely re-working the plot. They are NOT a MacGuffin.
The Nine Pieces of Eight in Pirates of the Caribbean
Good one! (Or nine...)
Excellent examples and solid advise!
Thank you!
Glad to help!
The Exit Visas from "Casablanca!" Greatest! Movie! Ever!
A classic!
@@WorldAnvil A classic, but not a MacGuffin. You could not replace them with some other "item greatly desired" and not completely change the plot.
Let's go with a classic: The Maltese Falcon.
The stuff dreams are made of...
"The Box" in Kiss Me Deadly
Flint’s Map from Treasure Island and The Horn of Dagoth from Conan the Destroyer.
IS Hairy Cheese a MacGuffin?
Muenster with a Mustache
Swiss with a wig
Brie with a beard
All valuable McGuffins
interesting video. I usually tend to try and avoid full on McGuffins that are so handwaved that they incidentally mean nothing but are only used to drive the plot forward. It's good to flesh out the plot devices more, but does that argue the goal of the story is no longer considered a McGuffin? Or has the term been more widely accepted to simply mean anything that drives the plot regardless of actual function (or lack thereof)?
That's a good question. Is there a point where a MacGuffin becomes too functionally important to be a MacGuffin? It would be hard to know where that point is... 🤔
@WorldAnvil I personally feel like calling it a McGuffin is basically a way of saying that isn't very functional at all, or what it claims to do doesn't make any sense, but I know the term has been stretched over time. By broadening the scope of what McGuffin means, it basically creates the theory that there is always a McGuffin in everything 😅
Hey, just wanted to let you know that UA-cam is playing your video with weird AI generated audio for other languages.
You can probably fix that somewhere in the settings.
Some things that get lumped in with MacGuffins are not MacGuffins. The One Ring in LOTR is effectively a character, and its characteristics strongly affect the plot. The glowy thing in the brief case in Pulp Fiction is a pure MacGuffin and was intended as such. The Maltese Falcon in The Maltese Falcon is 95% MacGuffin, the 5% is that it is revealed to be worthless in the end, so it gets to carry a certain amount of non-MacGuffin irony. On the other side of the ledger, the Letters of Transit in Casablanca are NOT a MacGuffin, they are not just some random goal or motivation. They characteristics of the item, and what they represent, are directly important to the plot they are distinctly NOT a MacGuffin.
Appreciate the shoutout to Gail "the Bear" Simone! Baby Yoda/Grogu is a fave recent MacGuffin! Also, love your hair, it's so red!
All hail the Groguffin! 💖
To be fair fridging has nothing to do with male or female. It is when *anyone* is butchered to drive the plot. It teaches us that the solution to violence is more violence. Garbage in /. Garbage out. History repeating. It doesn't matter who is killed. If the ONLY reason a character dies is to move the plot forward it is bad writing.
PLEASE turn off automatic dubbing. please!