@@Lazlo-os1pu Before summer of 2022 I couldn't delete recruiter emails fast enough and now I can't get back a response when I reply to a recruiter email. Recruiters I have talked to said they have never seen it this bad in the last 10-15 years.
@@Lazlo-os1pu..Seems like it's true, and it makes sense considering how many people FANG and other companies have laid off over the past 18 months. I know a lot of those FANG employees were not SE, but some were, and now we all have to compete. In any case, it does seem like an employers market right now
Seems like this makes more sense: “When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years.” ― Mark Twain
My experience with career fairs were me going to talk to someone only to be told to apply online for the tech role. All the career fairs I’ve gone to have been more business centered and not tech.
Try to stay away from explicitly talking tech, and more into talking business. It my not work for a FANG company, but you might impressed someone who didn't even realize they needed someone like you. And you can present yourself as a person who wants to work with them instead of for them. "As a program, I have worked on a lot of applications that aim to reduce operational costs." "This update to our site actually resulted in a far lower bounce rate."
I have a 3.9 gpa, interned as a react developer and that turned into a full time job for a year and a half. I go to career fairs. I grind leetcode. I constantly try to improve my resume. I NEVER get any responses from jobs. It’s ALL about getting a referral. Nothing else matters in my mind.
I graduated with a 2.7 GPA, never interned, and got a $100,000 job the same year and never did a leetcode interview ever. Never ever gotten a "referral". It is possible.
@@Ironlionm4n >can you please elaborate? lol dont get me started. Long story short is crypto. Crypto markets dont need to go up for you to be able to make money off of them either. BTC requires computational technology and energy as inputs. "AI" requires computational technology as an input. Demand for computational technology is skyrocketing. Nvidia makes computational technology. Check nvidia's stock price. Check the demand for AI. Check the debt amounts for various nation states. They can either print money (monetary inflation) or raise taxes to get out. No one is going to vote for politicians to raise their taxes so monetary inflation and in turn price inflation is a guarantee over the next decade. Fintech brings all of this together. There is money to be made there because inefficiencies in pricing for various assets is guaranteed as nation states attempt to direct printed money towards where their citizenry demand they do. Build software applications that trade in markets to take advantage of said inefficiencies. You can try the stock market but you'll be going up against the most powerful groups of people on the planet that will spend millions and billions to reduce a few seconds of latency their trading applications face. Or do crypto before they put all of the pieces together. Check this out: ua-cam.com/video/263CooDJZCY/v-deo.html ........a few hundred million lost in a few seconds due to a software bug. Imagine being on the other end of that trade with software you made/cloned and made slightly better. Imagine simply selling access to such software. People are already starting do that but mostly with the stock market. Theres people on youtube creating applications that simply mimic the trading politicians do; it isnt even complicated to do mostly just data mining from other areas on the internet.
I’m not sure where you think his advice is falling short? He literally talks about being prepared for a job vs. preparing for a career as being vastly different for the first 12months. Is he not giving enough unqualified advice on how to optimise your CV for the CV analysing LLMs? Is he not perpetuating the “no one can get a job” story enough? Is he not driving his lambo enough on stream? L take my man. L take.
@@Kane0123 His advice at the beginning is just "take massive amounts of debt so you can get a face to face interaction" so you can to work at McDonald's for $13/hr.
I've have 8 months work experience, have won a hackathon, have personal projects, have a 89% average. I've applied to 105 companies, big and small. Not a single request for an interview.
Bro fr. I know I'm not a senior engineer or admin, but damned I'll be if I didn't actually feel so confident in my abilities. I've ran the full gauntlet of making several full stack apps, managing remote servers, ci/cd, container orchestration, Yada Yada, and no replies at all brother
Same, I had to settle for a tech support role with some scripting/dev after many fruitless and vain months of search. I was almost a year without any job.
105 companies are rookie numbers tbh, I had similar LoE coming out of university, applied to 400-500 places across the country until I started getting interviews
Have you looked into the resume filtering systems that most companies use? I’ve not put a resume together yet as im still working on my major application i plan on deploying, but from some mentors and senior developers i know, great candidates get their resumes automatically deleted before they’re even looked at because of some filtering software’s that application portals use. But there are services that help you formulate your resume to meet the key values that are necessary to not get filtered out. Your work might be incredibly impressive and nobody knows because a human being is never actually seeing it
@@trentirvin2008 I'll definitely look into that. I used the same general template that I've seen my friends who have got interviews use, but you never know, I might be doing something differently
that depends on how well you do during the internship. During internship you'll learn a lot, build up a good linkedin page, and a good portfolio (you shouldn't care that your portfolio projects are not perfect, they need to showcase that you know something about this and you can build something), and you'll likely get a job without much problem. Tho I'm an intern myself so I should prly shut up.
Then you’re doing it wrong. Don’t know why younger generations like to brag about how their mass resume spamming approach didn’t work, as if that was somehow unexpected. Must be an attention thing.
@@Stay_away_from_my_swamp_water i've had a portfolio with projects on it before i even started my internship, so it helped get my contract in the first place
@@JohnSmith-op7ls "younger generation" dude, you are so far removed from what the current job market is. Internships are extremely difficult to get now, jobs are even harder. "If you don't have a job in an industry that has had more people let go in the past year than graduates in that field, you are simply doing it wrong". I don't know how that statement even makes any sense to you or anyone with a brain.
I think its perfectly reasonable for a university graduate to expect a job in their field. If the university is not preparing people for the job market, then the university is kinda failing.
Absolutely reasonable based on our expectation. The university doesn’t see it that way. They think we’re there to be educated by their “world class” researchers.
@@mecanuktutorials6476 I guess it comes down to who finances the university. Is it taxpayers money, in which case I think taxpayers do have a right to demand something in return for their money, or is it a private business.
I have 20 years of software experience with techs like PHP, Go, python and cloud environments. The last 7 years at a big SaaS telco with also leading and engineering management roles. Then layoffs happened. I have now sent around 25 applications to various jobs and had over 70-80 different interviews (as it is a multi interview process on every company) and I still didn’t get an offer. I was asking for less than what I was making and even applied on medior software engineer roles while getting desperate. It is wild out there. If you are thinking of quitting your job please rethink about it.
@@jalbers3150 It's a common issue that the people that can present themselves the best are rarely the best people. But you can't find the best people if they can't present themselves at all.
@@jalbers3150 yeah career fairs are something to hit up if you've hit up everything else. it's not the most typically successful route. I got my first position a couple years after the 2000 web crash. it took a painfully long time. getting your first position absolutely sucks, especially during a recession.
Unless you’re applying for a bunch of jobs that are completely different to each other, a lot of your interview prep will be reusable across multiple interviews.
thats true if there isnt antitrust issies. lack of competition in the field of work will keep all them from working. what likely will happen is the selected is discriminatorily and will become latino only companies etc.
@IvanRandomDude you can find jobs that pay more peanuts than most of the US companies (not considering tech giants). Plus, considering difference in price of living and housing prices I'd say EEU devs get to enjoy more peanuts.
That part where he said his mom was just happy him not being drugged 😢 the truest statement ever , I was lost in drugs 2016-2017 and my parents/younger Sister endured so much emotional pain seeing just the shell of who I was.. a couple months clean near the end of 2017 , I realized that my actions of trying to fix my addiction was making my family so happy. Now over 6 years clean, with 2 sons I didn't have or could imagine in 2016
@@HappyroosterYT my college only taught me named algorithms djikstra kruska prim tarjan kosaraju , not two pointer sliding window merge intervals dynamic programming, they showed us one question for backtracking rat in a maze,
Career fairs are not all the same, bud. Lots of them consist of standing in a long line, handing someone your resume, and answering one question, before they tell you to shuffle along.
I go to a small university. Around 1500 students, and our career fairs are pretty garbage. 0 tech companies. Most companies don’t have cs related internships being offered. About 5 of them offer a cs related internship. I got lucky. One of them gave me an internship, and I was able to extend it for my whole sr year and got a job offer.
The career fairs I've seen don't even accept resumes, you're talking to some random HR guy who tells you to just visit and apply on their website instead. It's more of an advertisement for their company rather than actually interviewing potential candidates.
you're not limited to the fairs of the uni you're studying at, I've never had anyone ask me for my student ID entering one, and the companies are just there to recruit, your alma doesn't matter as long as you can convince them you're qualified
Depends on your university, its degree programs and its location. My BA rarely ever had career fairs. My AAS community college had them roughly every two-three month. You could also over time guess relevancy simply by which building it was set up in. Was it set up inside the IT building, inside the entrance to the Liberal Arts community center or outside Infront of the union. once I saw an It company in the liberal arts building. The IT building set up was extremely rare/ as for in front of the union it was common with all the expected retail or healthcare companies. You could also tell if it was worth attending because students would go home and come back to campus in formal attire before walking around the tables. While the two locations students wouldn't take it as seriously and would talk with companies in T-shirts and standard apparel.
That is how you know that times are bad. But hey, it could be worse. It could have been strip clubs and local mobsters looking for full time employees.
@@Nick-qy7lk That's what I saw in engineering job fairs when I was in school, 50-ish companies in a large room with 2-3 thousand students looking for a job.
It took me one year and +1000 resume applications to finally land a state position in tech. However, I had to move +300 miles away from where I used lived to get it. It’s hard, and a lot of work and luck is required. But I had to make the hard choice and move to get a career that paid well. Don’t give up, just get really aggressive every day. Submit 5 resume applications a day, everyday in the morning until you land that position.
@@zacharythomasrobertson8471, My friend who was also HR, told me that "timing" and "post dates" are as important as making a rock solid resume and cover letter. She told me that HR are human too and you need to grab their attention within first 3-5 hours of their work (7am ~ 10am mostly, also consider their time zone).
@@qwoolrat, on average, many people will spend 90,000 hours on 8-9hr job/career, covering 30% of their entire life. Finding a better career that will lessen the financial burden in your work life while finding more time doing amazing things is rare. But without effort, you wont find that solace in life. "you can't enjoy life without feeling burden by it"
@@axb8886 Nah sometimes they have a QR code that leads to their website, that's about it. A lot of the times the people at the booths are just HR, they don't actually know what tech stack the company uses or any other useful details.
When I see stuff like this, I understand why so many people fear AI: They do their job in a half-assed manner that a simple algorithm can replace them! What is the point of a job fair, if not to establish REAL connections? A card is no better than a quick search and a LinkedIn follow
We had a career fair and I went out of my way to talk to every recruiter at every stand and honestly most of them just sent you to their standard recruiting website. Got a job a few months later in a company that wasn't even present that day.
Companies are starting to realize that they get the most leverage by taking away the human factor. They just try to automate and expand the top funnel, so that they get to hand-pick their best option from some office far away and detached from reality.
That’s what I’m planning on doing, work in some warehouse or something and just build my skill set on the side through projects until the job market corrects itself Don’t know how long it will take though 😔
@@poopdealer_It's better to find an internship or a junior level job to learn the stuff, otherwise you may still find yourself in a warehouse in 10 years.
@@poopdealer_ just make sure it's part time ( weekends ). You will need all the time you can get to make your side project succeed in the real world no matter how trivial it is. especially if you are doing everything yourself. Sotf skills like software achitecture were incredibly hard for me to grasp. I literall rewrote my web app more than five times now, because each time I launched it into production and started asking friends and family to use it. It worked but, was not user friendly (navigation, layouts, docs, etc..). Working part-time allowed to make my personal project the "main" focus in my life!
I empathize with this guy and 100% failed myself in college, kind of bricked my career path. Had a death in the family, should have taken time off school, didn't, etc. I don't see a world where I get hired. I spend a lot of my time working on my own projects hoping the experience will one day get me hired
Only 600!? I'm at nearly 1.1k with about 8 years of pro dev experience, had about 15 interviews, 5 2nd round, 2 final round, haven't been picked yet though... still holding out hope but I've decided that if I can't find a door, I'll just have to build one myself ;)
Last career fair I went to was awful. The ratio of companies compared to job seekers is really unbalanced. If you try to take time to talk to anyone a massive queue forms behind you and you get forced to move on. The companies there only have one or two vacancies which can just be found online. In some cases they didnt even have vacancies and are just there to spread awareness. Even if you give them your name and have an interesting convo the representatives of the companies are never people with actual authority and they're talking to hundreds of people all day so nothing will come of it. Waste of a day. It's better to go to coding workshops and meetups if you have access otherwise god help you
Yeah my career fair was a bunch of companies who listed they were looking to hire cs majors and you go talk to them and they’re like “oh yeah we’re looking for an IT desk guy” or “we don’t have any software positions” or “I have one position open and it already have 700 applications from students with way better resumes from way more prestigious schools” Like why tf are you here then?
and if you live in a remote area you are completely fucked because for me to get to a meetup its at min a 90 min drive which means i am burning pto to even attempt to go to one.
I think it's funny that the whole conversation seemed to center around university versus bootcamp. Maybe this is something that is hard for recent college graduates to understand, but it's not always about you. The US economy is going through a painful transition from absurdly stimulative to restrictive. It has nothing to do with your strategy, grades, amount of networking etc, company's aren't hiring as much because they can't borrow for free anymore.
Reading the comments: "Get really lucky; be friends with someone on the inside." Where's this meritocracy people keep talking about? I'll go make my own software company ffs.
@@OrdigTroll Meritocracy exists, it’s just the skill ceiling you perceive to need to be above in order to get a job off merit is much higher than you think. You’re not getting a job off merit unless you built some open source tool lots of people use.
Because if companies openly told candidates the truth, they’d all be sued into oblivion. That’s a sad truth that is learned over time, and anyone telling you otherwise either doesn’t have experience, benefits from favoritism of this system (nepo-hire, etc), or is just in denial. Last but definitely not least: the only person responsible and who has the power to choose your path is you.
@@OrdigTroll I worked full-time at a gas station for over a year and honestly, almost every homeless/poor person I saw behaved in ways that absolutely justified their lack of wealth. You can call me an alt-right capitalist or whatever you want but its true. They'd use food stamps for a load of junk food/soda, only to then spend their remaining cash on tobacco and alcohol. Not everyone in impoverished positions deserves it, obviously. But in our 1st world country, many of those people are keeping themselves poor because of their addictions and poor decision making. They have no in-demand skills, and no drive to learn. They have few friends, and typically bad relationships. They aren't helping themselves or anyone else around them.
Society revolves around people liking you. Yes you have to meet quotas at a job but the the best person for the job is never going to be the person who does the work the best. ESPECIALLY in a corporate setting.
Here's how you get your first job. Work in something else like tech support, and after a couple years go for a programming job and pretend you were doing software the whole time.
I brutally whiffed an internship interview in college. I (due to gaming addiction) didnt do what i should have, and am only now fixing it a decade later.
the worst part is having to listen to old boomers that graduated ~20 years ago, telling you (not ironically) to "wear a suit, speak face to face, and give a firm handshake!". It's eerie to realize people SO detached from reality - that lived in a world 100% different - are just there...voting, hiring, consuming. It's like they came from a different dimension idk
Guess what 20y ago there were losers like you who would keep complaining while your peers are getting good jobs and moving on with their life. Get off reddit and youtube dude.
To be fair... this is a very common and classic human-perception blind-spot. They remember what it was like 20 years ago, they are trying to be helpful because the advice WAS very helpful 20 years ago.... But now we live in a hyper-accelerationist devolving society. Things change in 10 years more than they did in entire generations. Internet, stock market, equity or whatever... Pandemic? Wtf honestly that was a robbery of resources by the elite but lets not go into that .... conspiracy? Yeah sure conspiracy, because elite could keep running business while the average small business got fked. Land became scarce in the span of a single generation. Can you believe that? Land was not scarce before, it has never been scarce in the history of the world until now. Even though the scarcity is fabricated, economically it is scarce.
@@usernamesrbacknowthx "Get off reddit and youtube dude" and you go back to your asylum, your senile boomer "your peers are getting good jobs and moving on with their life" lmao no they are not. no one is "moving on with their life" anymore, there are no "good jobs".
Glad to see this video back. Great subject video, and great commentary here! I had seen it only partially, when I tried to search it never found it, gone. That's why in a live chat I asked the PrimaAgen whether he had deleted this video. Anyway glad to see it back, finallly watched it completely.
This is the first video I have seen from Prime and I can just tell he is one of the few people to actually understand the point of school. I'm currently a CE student and have a job at a national laboratory and I would have never gotten it if it hadn't been for the connections I made in school. Many people are quick to dismiss school as a huge waste of time and money, and while I think it can definitely be that, there are definitely ways to make school very effective. I am 100% sure that I would have NEVER landed any sort of job without the people that helped me out. Fantastic video!
I live in MA and have worked with engineers from well known universities. To be completely blunt, just because a person has a CS degree, it doesn't mean they understand algorithms or data structures. I've met plenty that could recite the text book definition, but didn't actually understand the impact in a real program. The only useful measurement is can the person actually write readable maintainable code. If they can't, it makes zero difference the name of the university on their degree. The worst part is when a person acts like a complete ass because they graduated from a well known university.
Where do you even find dev jobs in MA? Outside of Boston the tech market seems non existent here. I look at cities in MA with around 100K population and many of them don't even have ONE listing for SWE, and the ones that do are not junior positions.
Well, you still have to get an engineer with an engineering mindset. It's also the reason you don't hire physicists if you want to get things done. A CS degree is not a substitute, it's laying the theoretical groundwork. In hiring, I try hard to avoid the academic research types that lack the necessary pragmatic mindset.
Yep. Been working in industry for about 6-7 years and got my Masters at a reputable university in Boston and I'd probably be slow af to do some algo/leet code type questions right now-granted I have work experience, I'd consider myself on the luckier side. I've met people who pick up really quickly with degrees, and others who are lost. It's hard out here for everyone for sure :/
@@Adr3nalin3CsGO Not my experience. They usually have an eccentric style that makes it hard to comprehend for other people and they tend to get lost in irrelevant details instead of finding a good balance between pragmaticism and finding seemingly perfect solutions. Programming is more like writing literature for commoners than writing academic papers for elitists.
This one goes a lot of diff directions. I get what primagen is saying about meritocracy being good, but it's also depressing that having a comp sci degree from ucla isn't nearly enough anymore. Anecdotally, I'm seeing electrical engineer grads having a hard time getting a job in their field. They think it's easier going for a soft eng job. The advice to work 80 hrs a week doesn't sit well with me. About half of stem grads end up in non-stem fields. It's inhumane to expect people to work 60+ hr weeks and blaming them for lacking passion when they burn out and jump ship. At what point is it too much? If anyone is still reading this, my heart is with primagen. I've switched jobs to one that will pay for a comp sci degree. I want to have the option to go the llm route or even traditional engineering. I also have an obsessive personality, and I feel like you can't get much done in 40 hrs/wk. So he is preaching to the choir for me personally, but it's just not sustainable or healthy for the vast majority of people. We could do so much better.
Never listen to him about anything job related. Technology is good stuff but anything else he is so far out of normal employment situations he can't fathom it.
prime got hired by talking about rxjs to some recruiter... times have changed. He is spot-on about how to LEARN programming. He doesn't realize that nowadays KNOWING programming barely places you in the pool of thousands that also KNOW programming. Most of the market is a race to the bottom, the work is seen by many employers as a dumb thing that needs to get done, and they just need to reduce the costs as much as possible to get this dumb thing out of the way.
You say that CS grads will know CS, but my lived experience doesn't match that. I've interviewed many applicants for my team and all have had either a undergrad or master's in CS. They all struggled with basic data structures. It would take over 30 minutes to answer basic counting problems
@@5h4ndt Maybe they did. I think barely any company is actually demanding proof of a degree and there are enough people who just forge their CV simply because they know it's never checked and there are no consequences.
At 27 years as a Software Engineer/Architect, I remember how worried I was about Graduation. And towards the end of the my Junior year, and aperson asked my professor asked for students interested in interning for $15/hr (1996). I jumped on it, and that was the beginning of everything. I shudder to think what might have been if I hadn’t jumped. I got out with a degree and like 18 mos experience. It made all the difference in the world. I really feel for the younger folks and how hard it is to break in. Listen to Prime and video, this is solid advice
the thing is most cs majors now have years of experience coming out from research labs and internships as well. it's really just that new grad roles are impossible to get and they treat you like you have no experience unless you've interned at a top company.
@@blasted5477 to be fair interning and schooling are different things. The allure of a boot map grad is - generally speaking - the grads have went through a program that replicates a companies daily workflow. They're familiar with the tools, frameworks, and general practices of working as a team. The type of roles that align with what a student has been doing would seem to be a select few.
My hourly is £14.50 and i got a high mark on my BA, applied to a good few places. In todays dollars you started on double my salary.. not so much an intern eh?
@@ZaKrlawI really wasn’t an intern, it was an entry level job. I was paid hourly w/ no benefits and everyone else was on salary. I worked 40 - 60 hours a week, but got overtime. I also attended Uni full time. It just felt important to work and get that resume padded.
Have you considered career coaching? While a lot of people have a lot of rejections, but a few thousand would suggest that there are some serious issues at play.
I graduated electrical engineering during the recession following 9/11. I had 4 prior internships, highest grades in my class, and still couldn't find meaningful work for 2 years. Sometimes it's tough out there.
another thing which I see way too often: Only because you studied CS or in general want to be a programmer, doesn't mean you have to work at an IT company. There are many other types of companies which need programmers. We need people which program medical devices, cranes, cars, all kinds of machines. A lot of non-IT companies also need programmers which do in-house software. Be it because they won't like the software on the market or there is non which works for them (obviously governments come to mind here, but also some manufacturing companies, after all, they create unique things too). So please, don't forget that working as a programmer does not equal working at an IT company.
Problem is, if they even have the resouces, those companies aren’t willing to train people fresh off of college. Management doesn’t want to take risk on people who’s just going to eventually leave the company after just about two years which is a common practice in our field aparrently. Actually, even big software companies are starting to do this more often. Before the pandemic hiring spree, IT companies opens a lot of training programs for junior devs to take advantage of. These days, the number of programs from tech companies seem to become less and less every year.
@@unhash631 Well, that seems to be an American company then. I am from Germany where that's not a problem since A LOT of our education system is based on companies and schools working together. For example for some engineering fields you do your final work (e.g. your Bachelor work) at a company, not at university (the university only grades it afterwards). But then again, even in IT we don't have this "switch company every few years"-culture.
@@kuhluhOG I always heard Germany and few EU companies have a much more Superior Training based educational system, but America isn't like that. The School system is horrible, from Grammar School, Highschool, to College. They just wants to pump students through the system, whatever happens next don't matter. President Obama even shut down a whole bunch of for profit College because of that. Most of the types of companies you talk about don't have the resources to train Newbies, or their IT dept is so small and have no idea how to train a newbie or have any rooms to train someone who couldn't hit the ground running.
"Luck is where preparation meets opportunity" is so true. I heard this first from John Medwedeff over some brews at Tres Hombres in Southern Illinois. It has stuck with me since.
I'm from Europe and i get weekly requests from HRs for senior/lead positions and in countries like France or NL they pay pretty well for EU standards (i'm talking about 60 to 80k). It surprises me to know that US is like that.
I was looking in the comments for this. I’m also from Europe (Netherlands) and the job market is still very strong here. I really don’t understand why this is different in the US.
@@sanderlissenburg1608tech bubble, companies massively over-hired a few years ago and now they're cutting back but they keep job application open for (tax purposes)
I am one of those who got REALLY lucky, I got tired of the studies I was doing and just drop out, picked up a course to update my current knowledge up to par with current web dev. That was start of 2019, and the friend we were having a bit of "competition" where both of us were stepping to development, and he got the 1st job he applied to. And I could not be "worse than he was", and ended up getting the first job I did not even apply to. I sent an email to company that had a local office, and was about to forget that, until I got email from the in house recruiter (talent acquisition head), and set up a call next day, I got take home project and week's time to complete it with a framework I had not even heard about. I sent the project, waited a week, followed up about it but our CTO who went over it had been sick that week, and I had interview in August with both of the team leads, and started as a dev 9th of September 2019, and still sticking around :p
I feel like today's job environment is vastly different from what it was a few years back. Getting an internship today is some seriously hard work. People who are trying to enter this job landscape now have to compete with laid off FAANG employees, or just people with much more experience in general. The requirement for an entry level internship are getting ridiculous and its going to get worse as AI improves. Like take devin. While it is nowhere near good right now, it could in the nearby future be as good as an intern, and then that would be the new bar for entry. So I feel like a lot people are stuck in the cycle of need experience to get experience, and its not a fun place to be in.
You'reentirely right... but that's the advantage of tech the barrier to just making something on your own is ridiculously low but people don't do that they just do useless leetcode with 0 application to real life instead. So yes you need experience but that experience can be making your own thing, unlike say a biomechanical engineer that's literally impossible to do on your own or urban planning engineers or whatever
You are spot on. Everybody always talks about how low barrier to entry is a good thing. It’s not. It creates insane competition and gives control back to the higher ups. We are heavily skewed in favor of the rich vs everyday workers. It will only get worse.
This semesters career fair mostly consisted of many students looking for co-ops (Internships needed to graduate) and full-time SWE jobs and most companies were not hiring full-time, very few openings, just asked you to apply online and not taking resumes, hours long lines just to be asked to apply online. This was similar to last semesters career fair but I feel last semester there was more hiring full-time positions. I go to tech school, graduating this May with a BS in Software Engineering. I did not feel I was able to get much out of the experience this semester than previous semesters, when I was looking for co-ops, just wanting to see what skills companies were looking for or talking with companies to improve my elevator pitch. I was disappointed with this experience as I was hoping to utilize the career fair to get my post-graduation job.
100% agree with Trade School for computing. I started in '89 when it was not possible to study anything but programming in Uni, and I wanted to do infrastructure at the time. I was super lucky to have a boss who had installed the first Cray Computer into GCHQ (UK Pentigon). I got to learn 30+ years of experience. This would have been impossible to get at uni at the time. We should be offering young people direct access to learn at work with trade school. Many who would not fair well at Uni are excellent programmers or network engineers.
Hey Andrew, We have that here in Germany. You can go to a trade school for that. You apply at a normal company, but you go to work 3 days a week, and 2 days you go to school. It takes 3 years. You do get paid during all that time, but the pay is very low, about 1000 Euros/month.
@@johanneswelsch when I was doing mine at 17, I was getting paid 24 pounds a month (1989). I find it a fair exchange for great learning. It was really hard, and I needed to get extra benefit's to cover housing etc... However, by 21, I had attained enough skill to get a job at Intel when they were #4 in the world. I'd leapfrogged all those that did go to uni.
This guy had a SAT tutor?! Like an actual personal human tutor? Serious rich Asian boy vibes. I failed one of the two major standardized tests the first time around and then used software to beat it the second time. The software literally told me to stop second-guessing my original answer because 100% of the time I changed from my first answer, I changed it to the wrong answer AND wasted valuable time doing so. I passed with flying colors the second time around. But a human tutor for a standardized test? Oy vey. Also, the fact that the SAT and ACT are loaded with trick questions that causes really smart people to fail makes those standardized tests worse than useless.
I remember going to a career fair in my 2nd year of college. After standing in a line for an hour there was finally just one guy left before it was my turn. I heard the guy in front of me who was a last year masters student talk about his personal projects, research projects, multiple internships, his perfect 4.0 gpa... And then he asked for an internship, not even a full-time job. I remember thinking if even this guy is asking for an internship, then how am I supposed to compete? It's tough out there. And this was 4 years ago.
I recently spent 10 months as an intern at a company that opened up a position that would have been what i was doing. I applied to the position but the company went with another candidate with 15+ years of experience compared to my 1.5 ish years. it took me years and well over 1k applications to get this position in a field that is constantly in the papers due to "worker shortages"
Just because there is an open position, doesn't mean you can just accept anyone no matter how lacking they are in experience or other required skills. It's often better to leave a position open for years than hiring someone who needs substantial training and have the attached risk that the person won't grow into the role in the end.
@@Asto508 in this case i was already trained, had all the needed access and had shown that i was more than capable of performing the responsibilities for the role except for one task that i was not allowed to do as an intern
@@Ettap96 Well, I can't judge your individual case here and it also depends on how many applicants have been there for this position, but seemingly the people in the seats had their reasons not to consider you or maybe they did and you still lost because the other guy was objectively better or there were other external reasons. Unless you have a deeper insight into how and why the process turned out, it's difficult to say, but don't make the mistake to think there weren't good reasons for it.
When i hear "worker shortages" now i assume they mean "the amount of workers who we feel can do this job without much training is low so we want to increase the hiring pool so we can pay less".
@@Asto508 I dont really know why as i didnt get to know anything else than they decided to go with the other candidate that made it through the 3 stage interview prosses
I have been out of work for a few months. I have had multiple recruiters and HR folk tell me they get hundreds of applicants now for each job posting. It is hard to stand out right now. Networking is probably the best route to getting a job. I've gotten most of my jobs through referrals or recruiters. I may have a job soon with an old boss. They're just trying to get the job approved with the company.
I had my head shift forward half way through senior year of my CS degree and have been increasingly unable to work for the past few years, until I started taking physical therapy and ergonomics hyper serious. Not taking your ergonomics serious can cost/delay your career significantly. When my neck slipped forward I began having headaches that made it increasingly difficult to think, sit, and work. Make sure to care for your bodies early and start a Physical Therapy program to keep them strong.
bro I "woke" up in my fourth year and I'm in my fourth year. My brain just started to understand everything and why all these CS stuff existed. But it's a little too late for me. 😂😂😂😂
I've been at this close to three decades myself. Self taught. I've spent 10-15 hours a week beyond the job to expand my knowledge and understanding. Honing my craft. I will work on side projects, experiment and just constantly read. From hacker news to email newsletters and limited articles. You can't rest if you want to keep moving forward. I've seen too many developers at 50+ who are stuck with the language and tools they are using. Can't count the devs who don't understand the use of simple queue servers or how public-private key crypto works even conceptually. It's not even as wild as liked lists, binary trees and sorting. On the other side, on the interview side, I've been disinclined to hire someone who hasn't done more than what they were assigned in school or boot camp. Passion counts for a lot here. Right now, I'm about 3 months into a job search after taking 4 months off for personal/medical reasons. It's truly rough right now.
my data struct class was more of recreating data structs in C++ from scratch, and algorithms was more about proving why algorithm X works, along with other things that really lean into academic / mathematical side of it. It really was a "Computer Science" class in every sense of it, not a "Software Engineering" class, where you stack aces up your sleeves when it comes to solving leetcode style problems and build real world applications.
Urgh, the title killed me because I am also in the midst of getting rejected I am now in my 100th rejection, even though I literally had 2 to 3 year experience before I chose to go back to university
When I graduated, I sent out over 1000 resumes before I got a job. Granted plenty of those were shotgun resume approach, just tossing them everywhere. But still, thats pretty scary. After a couple years of experience, I applied to jobs again, and got 2 jobs from 5 resumes sent. Its amazing what actual experience does for your prospects
worked at a startup for 5 years, it learned me every aspect of software development, from customer interaction, support, UI/UX, Frontend / backend, hardware app development, CI/CD. Everything.
i guess i'm different, all the acquaintances in college all went their own way, none of them will help each other out. They are all busy finding jobs, and it is like battle royal you don't have true ally. I don't understand what Prime is talking about. The people who I met after college who will help me are non programmers, since they need a programmer to help them achieve projects or getting things done.
I've never seen a career fair where any of the companies were hiring. The ones I attended were a total waste of time. All the companies would just say "Oh we're not actually hiring".
The ones I've been to were like 50/50. Half of them were hiring and half weren't. However the positions were advertised also on their website and on linkedin so they were not necessarily looking to fill the positions on the spot. Plus a lot of the positions were not even suited for recent graduates or students as they required 2+ of experience. I know one person only that sort of got a job through a fair and they were at first rejected and then contacted months later to be offered the same position which they accepted.
600 rejections? that's nothing... i got 1200 rejections before getting a job, and not even an ideal or decent job. You need to review his resume, interview responses, and the type of jobs he's applying. There's a red flag somewhere.
yep, that's what I'm thinking. If he got rejected for 600 ENTRY LEVEL roles, then there's most definetly a bunch of red flags in his resume/interviewing process that got exposed every time
I was gonna say. In the year of our lord twenty twenty three? 600 rejected applications in tech is not that many, unless these were all custom tailored for each job posting. And even then. That’s 5 per day for 4 months. Those are rookie numbers.
I'm on over 1500 rejections and I still haven't found a job. That's because I'm self-taught with very little experience of development in the professional world.
@@johnchris2122 Took me over 6 years when I graduated in 2009. I had to take unrelated jobs as millions of out of work oeple who had years of experience were willing to work for minimum wage to code by 2010. I am not making that up Literally you could get a javascript developer for free for references or $10/hr.
I’ve found the people sent to a career fair have zero decision making authority or influence in the organization. They just tend to send the bubbly people or someone who doesn’t want to be there.
I was laid off with a large group of colleagues in December. I am well over 1,000 rejections so far, have two years enterprise experience as a dev, first degree is complete and second degree is currently in progress online with WGU. The two interviews (dsa code challenges) I did manage to get an invite for either didn't receive feedback, OR I got 10/10 (test cases passed) on two of three problems and 8/10 on the last problem (which I was actually proud of.) At this point I am more or less out of time and will need to take a job in person at a local hospital scanning emrs and other relatively mindless tasks. Want to destroy my resume and portfolio sometime? Five of five will let you publicize :D
I cheated every time for a job. I learned the magic words. I learned how politicans, fraudsters, ceo, and therapist influence people... then i went to the person everyone couldnt explain why, but was magical so to speak... it took 5 years, but i figured it out. to this day... I never tell anyone.... it works so great... until you are facing an ATS.
As a person who’s going through this right now I just wanna say I’ve found your channel and you’ve given me so much motivation to go deep and really work hard
Here in Norway we have the equivalent of a computer science trade school thing or something similar to it. The first year is split between media and IT/programming, then the second year is split between just IT, and programming, then you intern for 2 years either with programming, or with IT. Though since it's so divided, it doesn't go through data structures, OS stuff, compilers, etc (the school portion was basically learning how to write code, how to work on projects, and how to use git), so I've had to learn that on my own while going to school and while interning.
Unfortunately, the career fairs we have at my school, the recruiters were not really interested in actually recruiting. They would not accept any resumes and tell everyone to apply on their website. Very annoying.
i come from a working class family. Always had problems to get along with people with an academic background. I graduated 4 years ago in electrical engineering and i was only able to find 2 jobs. I was bullied out of these companies because of my working class background. And now nobody will hire me anymore.
The EV companies are looking for lots of electrical engineers, and they're not full of academics because they mostly aren't flush with cash to just hand out to people who do nothing.
Everybody who has applied before the year of 2023 is irrelevant, things are way different and changed the last 2 years, let’s hear some things from people with relevant knowledge not useless old 2022 and back knowledge
While I have a job, I'll say this: nobody's hiring, not our company, not anyone else's. Including our clients are reducing staff. That's the way it is now and this is why it's hard to find jobs. If there are 5000 jobs in the country and 100,000 are looking for one, then there is a large number of those who will never find one, because there aren't any.
Agreed as a bootcamp grad in my first three years of work i think i probably spent around five years of time in total working and learnign as its just not enough coming off a bootcamp into commercial settings these days. I literally used to start at 7am and I would finish my day still learning, watching, or building my own stuff to fill the gaps until around 2am most nights it was insane. Do i regret it not one bit as its rocketed my career to a place i was never expecting coming off a frontend bootcamp
As someone with zero programming knowledge, I have zero understanding about the vast majority of topics you talk about… but goddamn, I love the way you talk about the things I don’t understand❤️
"A little bit every day and you're there before you know it" is useful across all of life. Hell, I fold my laundry with that mantra. Empty that giant fucking pile onto my bed when the drier dings. Every time I walk by the bed, I fold 3-5 items. That way I don't become the crazy.
I have a BSCS, 7 years experience as a software engineer and I did a Data Science Bootcamp. I have not been able to get an interview in 5+ years of sending resumes and filling out applications. I did Uber for 2 years and I am now working in a Amazon Warehouse until I either can get an inhouse promotion or bootstrap my own business. I have heard chatter from many with similar experiences.
35:00 That was literally always the reason why my friendships broke apart. Changing school. Saying that it's hard to maintain long distance friendships is imo an understatement.
The UA-camr who doesn’t need to live off a normal 9-5 for a living , completely disconnected from the reality of the normal person. Who would’ve guessed
yeah well between: - AI tools for screening - companies wanting only people with experience - companies moving development to india - dumb HR questions - 1.000 tools required (and telling people "you know the principles and can learn it fast" doesn't work) it's hard
This is exactly what happened to me... eventually I just got lucky playing the numbers. But honestly I knew the entire time that unless I practically created my own startup and became my own boss, there was no shot I could get a job outside of being incredibly lucky. They always wanted years of prior professional experience in the industry, especially "entry level" jobs which I am not joking a lot of them want 5+ or 10+ years of experience.
It was quite obvious that the whole IT boom would be over when Corona restrictions were lifted. But 600 applications, that is crazy. I wrote like 30 in my whole life. One good advice is, do dual education. I did my high school combined with an apprenticeship already focused on electronics and IT. When I graduated I already knew enough to work in IT. After that I did a dual degree, working for a big IT company and getting paid while studying. The 3 years of working while studying count to employers as work experience, which automatically brings extra credit for new positions.
In the USA, a new tax law came into effect in 2022 where your employer must now deduct any software developer salary expense over FIVE YEARS instead of just the one like they do for other employees. This makes software developers VERY EXPENSIVE in the USA now. If you make 100K a year in salary, your employer is only able to deduct 20K of that as an operating expense in that same year. So a 100K developer must generate 500K of value each year just for a company to break even. Also, if they lay you off, you become like an income stream for the company even though you no longer work there as they can deduct your salary over the next four years after you are gone. All software work must now be treated like R&D or R&E for tax purposes in the USA.
If people still think that blasting resumes to as many companies as possible is the best way to get a job, it’s no wonder people aren’t finding anything
Over here in Germany I get an invitation and usually an offer 100% of the time I write an application, but damn the market here starts to get screwed too. They make senior experience look like entry level and want to pay far below market value, which is why I already lose interest to continue their interview process myself and reject. Why should I take a job with more responsibility, less salary and on a lower position, than I currently have? I'm not little Timmy coming out of grade school, I'm having 15 years of experience and either we talk like equal business partners or I'll reject myself even if I get an offer.
i live in germany too, i graduated right at the beginning of the pandemic. 4 years have passed since than and i am still struggling to find a job in tech.
"I've had a few moments in my life where I have done number 1, but for the vast majority of my life I've done number 2. Unfortunately. I am that guy." - Prime, 2024
I wish career fairs are what they used to be, since the pandemic our career fairs have had way fewer companies and now they just do mass statewide zoom calls and you maybe get to talk to someone who really wishes you werent talking for like a minute max and you submit your resume to an online portal instead of them actually having it in hand. Same thing with him talking about college motivation, his experience of college and new grad job searching just doesn't exist anymore and a lot of his experience still applies of course but not all of it.
I attended school without any money. Without wealthy parents, I took out a student loan. I despised being in debt so during my first year of school, as my debt increased, I secured a data entry job at a university research institution. This simple job taught me data management, data structures, and systems as used in the real world. This introduction opened doors to a different research institution, where I took on even greater responsibilities. I held roles as a lead developer, network administrator, and database administrator. The skills I gained while working surpassed classroom learning. I graduated debt-free. Crucially, my job provided me with the contacts for an opportunity at a leading tech firm. No job interview was needed.
A lot of your advice around friends and life are absolutely spot on as someone who's bumbled around and made mistakes just the same. I feel you do a good job of emphasizing the ability to always improve regardless of failure while not making failure negative. I think that second part gets lost sometimes, the idea of talking about failures without them defining the person who's failed and is especially hard when doing this exact kind of content. I respect that a ton
I think it's because of the supply outweighs the demand. Most new IT guys learn how to code not because they love it, they dream to have a well-paid job. I still remember my first job that I were looking for, it have to have a lot thing to do in a day, the money is just enough for me to survice month by month.
My advice, spam on internship job postings and try to get one in a company while you are a student. Then, wven if you don't like the job to much try to join that company after university. And move job positions while inside the same company. Stay there for a while and then switch companies. This is a boring but save route.
Sadly doing an internship while studying isn't realistic with how higher education works in my country. Even if it were, very few companies are looking for interns
This is good advice. Stick with a company for a bit and move up inside that company. Also having to deal with the code you wrote a few years ago is great for learning. If you don't look back at your code decisions and say what was I thinking you have not developed your skills enough.
As a bootcamp grad, I wanna let you all know that there's a boatload of work out there for companies that will need you for years to do what he described, which is not use anything CS related and build people apps that just help folks do business. You'll never get past a social skills issue, though...so you need to be sociable.
Career Fairs are mostly resume farming ops, no different than linked in recruiters sending you a possibly fake job posting and ending with "please send me your resume" Also, a lot tech interviews are kind of broken, too. When I interview candidates, I at least make sure that my questions are _relevant_ to the actual job/position. When I've been interviewed, I've had questions that were so unrelated and irrelevant to the eventual every-day tasks that it was absurd.
no offense but this guy (primeagen) got a lucky break in his career to end up at a "brand name" company which automatically boosts your ability to land new jobs AND he's made himself techy influencer, which again shields him from the experience that most software engineers will go through these days to change jobs. I know plenty of people in the big tech bubble companies that coast by on their resume while other very capable engineers struggle with 100s of applications to change jobs because they never worked at the big / famous companies.
Tech world went from paying $75k for bootcamp grads to not calling people with 10+ years of tech experience.
Genuine question here - did it actually? Or is that just the narrative? I can’t help but wonder whether either of those 2 extremes were actually true.
nothing extreme about it, just how it is@@Lazlo-os1pu
@@Lazlo-os1pu Before summer of 2022 I couldn't delete recruiter emails fast enough and now I can't get back a response when I reply to a recruiter email.
Recruiters I have talked to said they have never seen it this bad in the last 10-15 years.
@@Lazlo-os1pu..Seems like it's true, and it makes sense considering how many people FANG and other companies have laid off over the past 18 months. I know a lot of those FANG employees were not SE, but some were, and now we all have to compete. In any case, it does seem like an employers market right now
Remember that we are in a recession
"When I was 17, my dad didn't know anything. Now at 24, I'm amazed at how much he's learned in the last 7 years" -- Mark Twain
Seems like this makes more sense:
“When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years.”
― Mark Twain
“Shut up” - Dick Cheney
"Eat some grass"
- Cow
I love this quote😮. First time hearing it 👍
That's true you get chace to get a human rest of time robort.
My experience with career fairs were me going to talk to someone only to be told to apply online for the tech role. All the career fairs I’ve gone to have been more business centered and not tech.
Same I spoke to over 100 people all they said apply online
I know a recruiter who told me that if you hear this, you are not demonstrating your passion about the job or/ and your skills are not apparent enough
Try to stay away from explicitly talking tech, and more into talking business. It my not work for a FANG company, but you might impressed someone who didn't even realize they needed someone like you. And you can present yourself as a person who wants to work with them instead of for them.
"As a program, I have worked on a lot of applications that aim to reduce operational costs."
"This update to our site actually resulted in a far lower bounce rate."
@@Ivan-g2u3uI'm gonna wear a shirt that says "computer" to make my skills apparent then
@@Ivan-g2u3u that's good advice, thanks for sharing! to be fair, any of those people could refer you to an open role at the company
I have a 3.9 gpa, interned as a react developer and that turned into a full time job for a year and a half. I go to career fairs. I grind leetcode. I constantly try to improve my resume. I NEVER get any responses from jobs. It’s ALL about getting a referral. Nothing else matters in my mind.
It has never been easier to make (clone) enterprise level software. Just do that and/or/AND dabble in fintech.
@@TW0man4RMY I’m interested in dabbling in Fintech can you please elaborate?
I graduated with a 2.7 GPA, never interned, and got a $100,000 job the same year and never did a leetcode interview ever. Never ever gotten a "referral". It is possible.
@@usernamesrbacknowthx was this recent though?
@@Ironlionm4n >can you please elaborate?
lol dont get me started.
Long story short is crypto. Crypto markets dont need to go up for you to be able to make money off of them either. BTC requires computational technology and energy as inputs. "AI" requires computational technology as an input. Demand for computational technology is skyrocketing. Nvidia makes computational technology. Check nvidia's stock price. Check the demand for AI.
Check the debt amounts for various nation states. They can either print money (monetary inflation) or raise taxes to get out. No one is going to vote for politicians to raise their taxes so monetary inflation and in turn price inflation is a guarantee over the next decade.
Fintech brings all of this together. There is money to be made there because inefficiencies in pricing for various assets is guaranteed as nation states attempt to direct printed money towards where their citizenry demand they do.
Build software applications that trade in markets to take advantage of said inefficiencies. You can try the stock market but you'll be going up against the most powerful groups of people on the planet that will spend millions and billions to reduce a few seconds of latency their trading applications face. Or do crypto before they put all of the pieces together.
Check this out: ua-cam.com/video/263CooDJZCY/v-deo.html ........a few hundred million lost in a few seconds due to a software bug. Imagine being on the other end of that trade with software you made/cloned and made slightly better. Imagine simply selling access to such software. People are already starting do that but mostly with the stock market. Theres people on youtube creating applications that simply mimic the trading politicians do; it isnt even complicated to do mostly just data mining from other areas on the internet.
Prime has great advice if someone is looking for a job in 2006
😂, it’s almost possible
I’m not sure where you think his advice is falling short?
He literally talks about being prepared for a job vs. preparing for a career as being vastly different for the first 12months.
Is he not giving enough unqualified advice on how to optimise your CV for the CV analysing LLMs?
Is he not perpetuating the “no one can get a job” story enough?
Is he not driving his lambo enough on stream?
L take my man. L take.
@@Kane0123 when I read most comments it’s no wonder to me why these guys don’t have a job…
w take tbh
@@usernamesrbacknowthx
@@Kane0123 His advice at the beginning is just "take massive amounts of debt so you can get a face to face interaction" so you can to work at McDonald's for $13/hr.
I've have 8 months work experience, have won a hackathon, have personal projects, have a 89% average. I've applied to 105 companies, big and small. Not a single request for an interview.
Bro fr. I know I'm not a senior engineer or admin, but damned I'll be if I didn't actually feel so confident in my abilities. I've ran the full gauntlet of making several full stack apps, managing remote servers, ci/cd, container orchestration, Yada Yada, and no replies at all brother
Same, I had to settle for a tech support role with some scripting/dev after many fruitless and vain months of search. I was almost a year without any job.
105 companies are rookie numbers tbh, I had similar LoE coming out of university, applied to 400-500 places across the country until I started getting interviews
Have you looked into the resume filtering systems that most companies use? I’ve not put a resume together yet as im still working on my major application i plan on deploying, but from some mentors and senior developers i know, great candidates get their resumes automatically deleted before they’re even looked at because of some filtering software’s that application portals use. But there are services that help you formulate your resume to meet the key values that are necessary to not get filtered out. Your work might be incredibly impressive and nobody knows because a human being is never actually seeing it
@@trentirvin2008 I'll definitely look into that. I used the same general template that I've seen my friends who have got interviews use, but you never know, I might be doing something differently
i've had to send 500 applications to get an internship.
a goddamn internship.
i don't even want to know how many i'll have to send to get a real job
that depends on how well you do during the internship. During internship you'll learn a lot, build up a good linkedin page, and a good portfolio (you shouldn't care that your portfolio projects are not perfect, they need to showcase that you know something about this and you can build something), and you'll likely get a job without much problem. Tho I'm an intern myself so I should prly shut up.
Then you’re doing it wrong. Don’t know why younger generations like to brag about how their mass resume spamming approach didn’t work, as if that was somehow unexpected. Must be an attention thing.
@@Stay_away_from_my_swamp_water i've had a portfolio with projects on it before i even started my internship, so it helped get my contract in the first place
@@JohnSmith-op7ls alright buddy. how am i supposed to do it then ?
@@JohnSmith-op7ls "younger generation" dude, you are so far removed from what the current job market is. Internships are extremely difficult to get now, jobs are even harder. "If you don't have a job in an industry that has had more people let go in the past year than graduates in that field, you are simply doing it wrong". I don't know how that statement even makes any sense to you or anyone with a brain.
I think its perfectly reasonable for a university graduate to expect a job in their field. If the university is not preparing people for the job market, then the university is kinda failing.
Absolutely reasonable based on our expectation. The university doesn’t see it that way. They think we’re there to be educated by their “world class” researchers.
@@mecanuktutorials6476
I guess it comes down to who finances the university. Is it taxpayers money, in which case I think taxpayers do have a right to demand something in return for their money, or is it a private business.
The universities are there to make money. They don't give a fuck if you get a job or not.
sometimes it's not about the university, but about the system. If universities graduate k students per year but only n
@@AlejandroMéndez-j6j i think you are overcomplicating things. People are just lazy and dumb and that is the problem
I have 20 years of software experience with techs like PHP, Go, python and cloud environments. The last 7 years at a big SaaS telco with also leading and engineering management roles. Then layoffs happened. I have now sent around 25 applications to various jobs and had over 70-80 different interviews (as it is a multi interview process on every company) and I still didn’t get an offer. I was asking for less than what I was making and even applied on medior software engineer roles while getting desperate. It is wild out there. If you are thinking of quitting your job please rethink about it.
70-80 interviews? Bruh if you’re getting to that stage its interview technique.
Did they give you any feedback?
Also wondering
Subbed for the response
@@NamaDoodoo Rather stupidity of the interviewers.
Imagine having to come up with 600 narratives why you would be a good fit for the position, or feigning interest for 600 different problem domains.
This is why I never understood career fairs. It all felt so fake. I can't proselytize myself like that.
@@jalbers3150 It's a common issue that the people that can present themselves the best are rarely the best people. But you can't find the best people if they can't present themselves at all.
@@jalbers3150 yeah career fairs are something to hit up if you've hit up everything else. it's not the most typically successful route. I got my first position a couple years after the 2000 web crash. it took a painfully long time. getting your first position absolutely sucks, especially during a recession.
Unless you’re applying for a bunch of jobs that are completely different to each other, a lot of your interview prep will be reusable across multiple interviews.
JobJette all the way! Hundreds a day and I’m finally getting interviews!
Don't worry, 10 million high school students in 3rd world and Eastern Europe ready to work for peanuts are about to enter the field too.
As a CS major, I honestly don't feel threatened by hordes of low tier programmers.
thats true if there isnt antitrust issies. lack of competition in the field of work will keep all them from working.
what likely will happen is the selected is discriminatorily and will become latino only companies etc.
@@henlohenlo689NURSE
@IvanRandomDude you can find jobs that pay more peanuts than most of the US companies (not considering tech giants). Plus, considering difference in price of living and housing prices I'd say EEU devs get to enjoy more peanuts.
in... their own contries?
That part where he said his mom was just happy him not being drugged 😢 the truest statement ever , I was lost in drugs 2016-2017 and my parents/younger Sister endured so much emotional pain seeing just the shell of who I was.. a couple months clean near the end of 2017 , I realized that my actions of trying to fix my addiction was making my family so happy. Now over 6 years clean, with 2 sons I didn't have or could imagine in 2016
Most leetcode questions are not what we study in a college data structures class
No? I had an Algorithmia subject in CS that was pretty similar to leetcode problems.
@@HappyroosterYT my college only taught me named algorithms djikstra kruska prim tarjan kosaraju , not two pointer sliding window merge intervals dynamic programming, they showed us one question for backtracking rat in a maze,
@@chaitanyasharma6270a lot of questions on leetcode reduce to those algorithms lol
On my final exam I had to write some DS's function or an algorithm in C++ with pen and paper.
You were taught geography. @@chaitanyasharma6270
Career fairs are not all the same, bud. Lots of them consist of standing in a long line, handing someone your resume, and answering one question, before they tell you to shuffle along.
I go to a small university. Around 1500 students, and our career fairs are pretty garbage. 0 tech companies. Most companies don’t have cs related internships being offered. About 5 of them offer a cs related internship. I got lucky. One of them gave me an internship, and I was able to extend it for my whole sr year and got a job offer.
The career fairs I've seen don't even accept resumes, you're talking to some random HR guy who tells you to just visit and apply on their website instead. It's more of an advertisement for their company rather than actually interviewing potential candidates.
you're not limited to the fairs of the uni you're studying at, I've never had anyone ask me for my student ID entering one, and the companies are just there to recruit, your alma doesn't matter as long as you can convince them you're qualified
@@uwotm8634 true for like big finance or insurance corpos, but actual tech firms usually send actual developers to look for developers
yeah and they're collecting hundreds of resumes while hiring for only 1 or 2 positions
The career fairs when I was at uni were mostly just random bars and stores advertising and looking for part timers, not actual tech companies :(
Depends on your university, its degree programs and its location. My BA rarely ever had career fairs. My AAS community college had them roughly every two-three month. You could also over time guess relevancy simply by which building it was set up in. Was it set up inside the IT building, inside the entrance to the Liberal Arts community center or outside Infront of the union. once I saw an It company in the liberal arts building. The IT building set up was extremely rare/ as for in front of the union it was common with all the expected retail or healthcare companies. You could also tell if it was worth attending because students would go home and come back to campus in formal attire before walking around the tables. While the two locations students wouldn't take it as seriously and would talk with companies in T-shirts and standard apparel.
My career fairs were legit companies but there were literal thousands of students trying to talk to the people at the tables. It just felt hopeless.
That is how you know that times are bad. But hey, it could be worse. It could have been strip clubs and local mobsters looking for full time employees.
@@JohnDoe-sq5nvthat don't sound to bad
@@Nick-qy7lk That's what I saw in engineering job fairs when I was in school, 50-ish companies in a large room with 2-3 thousand students looking for a job.
It took me one year and +1000 resume applications to finally land a state position in tech. However, I had to move +300 miles away from where I used lived to get it. It’s hard, and a lot of work and luck is required. But I had to make the hard choice and move to get a career that paid well. Don’t give up, just get really aggressive every day. Submit 5 resume applications a day, everyday in the morning until you land that position.
Great advice. Doing it in the morning is key. If you don't do it then, it probably won't happen, lol.
does anything but your career matter to you
@@qwoolrat your career enables every other part of your life.. how much do you care about family/friends if you only support them as a burger flipper
@@zacharythomasrobertson8471, My friend who was also HR, told me that "timing" and "post dates" are as important as making a rock solid resume and cover letter. She told me that HR are human too and you need to grab their attention within first 3-5 hours of their work (7am ~ 10am mostly, also consider their time zone).
@@qwoolrat, on average, many people will spend 90,000 hours on 8-9hr job/career, covering 30% of their entire life. Finding a better career that will lessen the financial burden in your work life while finding more time doing amazing things is rare. But without effort, you wont find that solace in life.
"you can't enjoy life without feeling burden by it"
modern job fairs will hand you a card to apply online, they do not tell you to bring resumes.
What - no qr code or nothin??
@@axb8886 Nah sometimes they have a QR code that leads to their website, that's about it. A lot of the times the people at the booths are just HR, they don't actually know what tech stack the company uses or any other useful details.
When I see stuff like this, I understand why so many people fear AI: They do their job in a half-assed manner that a simple algorithm can replace them! What is the point of a job fair, if not to establish REAL connections? A card is no better than a quick search and a LinkedIn follow
join the faith. God provides your job.
We had a career fair and I went out of my way to talk to every recruiter at every stand and honestly most of them just sent you to their standard recruiting website. Got a job a few months later in a company that wasn't even present that day.
Companies are starting to realize that they get the most leverage by taking away the human factor. They just try to automate and expand the top funnel, so that they get to hand-pick their best option from some office far away and detached from reality.
I'm honestly looking at factory jobs and just trying to build a portfolio in the meantime
That’s what I’m planning on doing, work in some warehouse or something and just build my skill set on the side through projects until the job market corrects itself
Don’t know how long it will take though 😔
@@poopdealer_It's better to find an internship or a junior level job to learn the stuff, otherwise you may still find yourself in a warehouse in 10 years.
@@poopdealer_ just make sure it's part time ( weekends ). You will need all the time you can get to make your side project succeed in the real world no matter how trivial it is. especially if you are doing everything yourself. Sotf skills like software achitecture were incredibly hard for me to grasp. I literall rewrote my web app more than five times now, because each time I launched it into production and started asking friends and family to use it. It worked but, was not user friendly (navigation, layouts, docs, etc..). Working part-time allowed to make my personal project the "main" focus in my life!
@@poopdealer_ what’s your SWE experience up to this point?
Good luck, do it now prior to the robot invasion killing jobs like this.
I empathize with this guy and 100% failed myself in college, kind of bricked my career path. Had a death in the family, should have taken time off school, didn't, etc. I don't see a world where I get hired. I spend a lot of my time working on my own projects hoping the experience will one day get me hired
please update us that you made it
Only 600!? I'm at nearly 1.1k with about 8 years of pro dev experience, had about 15 interviews, 5 2nd round, 2 final round, haven't been picked yet though... still holding out hope but I've decided that if I can't find a door, I'll just have to build one myself ;)
Goddamn how long have you been unemployed?
@@ayeb0ssmaybe 3.5 year.
1.1k? How's many tech companies exist where you live?
@@boratsagdiyev522 depends too many ghost companies post hiring but never call or send mail back.
@@boratsagdiyev522 it’s a made up estimate 😂
Last career fair I went to was awful. The ratio of companies compared to job seekers is really unbalanced. If you try to take time to talk to anyone a massive queue forms behind you and you get forced to move on. The companies there only have one or two vacancies which can just be found online. In some cases they didnt even have vacancies and are just there to spread awareness. Even if you give them your name and have an interesting convo the representatives of the companies are never people with actual authority and they're talking to hundreds of people all day so nothing will come of it. Waste of a day. It's better to go to coding workshops and meetups if you have access otherwise god help you
This was my experience as well.
Yeah my career fair was a bunch of companies who listed they were looking to hire cs majors and you go talk to them and they’re like “oh yeah we’re looking for an IT desk guy” or “we don’t have any software positions” or “I have one position open and it already have 700 applications from students with way better resumes from way more prestigious schools”
Like why tf are you here then?
and if you live in a remote area you are completely fucked because for me to get to a meetup its at min a 90 min drive which means i am burning pto to even attempt to go to one.
I think it's funny that the whole conversation seemed to center around university versus bootcamp. Maybe this is something that is hard for recent college graduates to understand, but it's not always about you. The US economy is going through a painful transition from absurdly stimulative to restrictive. It has nothing to do with your strategy, grades, amount of networking etc, company's aren't hiring as much because they can't borrow for free anymore.
Reading the comments:
"Get really lucky; be friends with someone on the inside."
Where's this meritocracy people keep talking about? I'll go make my own software company ffs.
Meritocracy? Who tricked you into thinking that? "Meritocracy" is just a lie we tell to pretend the poor deserve to be poor
@@OrdigTroll Meritocracy exists, it’s just the skill ceiling you perceive to need to be above in order to get a job off merit is much higher than you think. You’re not getting a job off merit unless you built some open source tool lots of people use.
Because if companies openly told candidates the truth, they’d all be sued into oblivion. That’s a sad truth that is learned over time, and anyone telling you otherwise either doesn’t have experience, benefits from favoritism of this system (nepo-hire, etc), or is just in denial.
Last but definitely not least: the only person responsible and who has the power to choose your path is you.
@@OrdigTroll I worked full-time at a gas station for over a year and honestly, almost every homeless/poor person I saw behaved in ways that absolutely justified their lack of wealth. You can call me an alt-right capitalist or whatever you want but its true. They'd use food stamps for a load of junk food/soda, only to then spend their remaining cash on tobacco and alcohol.
Not everyone in impoverished positions deserves it, obviously. But in our 1st world country, many of those people are keeping themselves poor because of their addictions and poor decision making. They have no in-demand skills, and no drive to learn. They have few friends, and typically bad relationships. They aren't helping themselves or anyone else around them.
Society revolves around people liking you. Yes you have to meet quotas at a job but the the best person for the job is never going to be the person who does the work the best. ESPECIALLY in a corporate setting.
Thanks for the react, love your work !
Bro, u hiring?
Here's how you get your first job. Work in something else like tech support, and after a couple years go for a programming job and pretend you were doing software the whole time.
I brutally whiffed an internship interview in college. I (due to gaming addiction) didnt do what i should have, and am only now fixing it a decade later.
I don't understand why you are smashing this dude? All he did was sharing his personal experience regarding the job market.
the worst part is having to listen to old boomers that graduated ~20 years ago, telling you (not ironically) to "wear a suit, speak face to face, and give a firm handshake!". It's eerie to realize people SO detached from reality - that lived in a world 100% different - are just there...voting, hiring, consuming. It's like they came from a different dimension idk
You are not pulling your bootstraps hard enough boy! 😂
Guess what 20y ago there were losers like you who would keep complaining while your peers are getting good jobs and moving on with their life. Get off reddit and youtube dude.
Yeah, Prime really has no clue.
To be fair... this is a very common and classic human-perception blind-spot. They remember what it was like 20 years ago, they are trying to be helpful because the advice WAS very helpful 20 years ago....
But now we live in a hyper-accelerationist devolving society. Things change in 10 years more than they did in entire generations. Internet, stock market, equity or whatever... Pandemic? Wtf honestly that was a robbery of resources by the elite but lets not go into that .... conspiracy? Yeah sure conspiracy, because elite could keep running business while the average small business got fked. Land became scarce in the span of a single generation. Can you believe that? Land was not scarce before, it has never been scarce in the history of the world until now. Even though the scarcity is fabricated, economically it is scarce.
@@usernamesrbacknowthx
"Get off reddit and youtube dude"
and you go back to your asylum, your senile boomer
"your peers are getting good jobs and moving on with their life"
lmao no they are not. no one is "moving on with their life" anymore, there are no "good jobs".
Glad to see this video back. Great subject video, and great commentary here! I had seen it only partially, when I tried to search it never found it, gone. That's why in a live chat I asked the PrimaAgen whether he had deleted this video. Anyway glad to see it back, finallly watched it completely.
This is the first video I have seen from Prime and I can just tell he is one of the few people to actually understand the point of school. I'm currently a CE student and have a job at a national laboratory and I would have never gotten it if it hadn't been for the connections I made in school. Many people are quick to dismiss school as a huge waste of time and money, and while I think it can definitely be that, there are definitely ways to make school very effective. I am 100% sure that I would have NEVER landed any sort of job without the people that helped me out. Fantastic video!
I live in MA and have worked with engineers from well known universities. To be completely blunt, just because a person has a CS degree, it doesn't mean they understand algorithms or data structures. I've met plenty that could recite the text book definition, but didn't actually understand the impact in a real program. The only useful measurement is can the person actually write readable maintainable code. If they can't, it makes zero difference the name of the university on their degree. The worst part is when a person acts like a complete ass because they graduated from a well known university.
Where do you even find dev jobs in MA? Outside of Boston the tech market seems non existent here. I look at cities in MA with around 100K population and many of them don't even have ONE listing for SWE, and the ones that do are not junior positions.
Well, you still have to get an engineer with an engineering mindset. It's also the reason you don't hire physicists if you want to get things done. A CS degree is not a substitute, it's laying the theoretical groundwork. In hiring, I try hard to avoid the academic research types that lack the necessary pragmatic mindset.
Yep. Been working in industry for about 6-7 years and got my Masters at a reputable university in Boston and I'd probably be slow af to do some algo/leet code type questions right now-granted I have work experience, I'd consider myself on the luckier side.
I've met people who pick up really quickly with degrees, and others who are lost. It's hard out here for everyone for sure :/
@@Asto508physicists make amazing Software Engineers my guy. Fuck you mean you don't hire physicists if you want to get stuff done
@@Adr3nalin3CsGO Not my experience. They usually have an eccentric style that makes it hard to comprehend for other people and they tend to get lost in irrelevant details instead of finding a good balance between pragmaticism and finding seemingly perfect solutions. Programming is more like writing literature for commoners than writing academic papers for elitists.
This one goes a lot of diff directions. I get what primagen is saying about meritocracy being good, but it's also depressing that having a comp sci degree from ucla isn't nearly enough anymore.
Anecdotally, I'm seeing electrical engineer grads having a hard time getting a job in their field. They think it's easier going for a soft eng job.
The advice to work 80 hrs a week doesn't sit well with me. About half of stem grads end up in non-stem fields. It's inhumane to expect people to work 60+ hr weeks and blaming them for lacking passion when they burn out and jump ship. At what point is it too much?
If anyone is still reading this, my heart is with primagen. I've switched jobs to one that will pay for a comp sci degree. I want to have the option to go the llm route or even traditional engineering. I also have an obsessive personality, and I feel like you can't get much done in 40 hrs/wk. So he is preaching to the choir for me personally, but it's just not sustainable or healthy for the vast majority of people. We could do so much better.
Never listen to him about anything job related. Technology is good stuff but anything else he is so far out of normal employment situations he can't fathom it.
prime got hired by talking about rxjs to some recruiter... times have changed. He is spot-on about how to LEARN programming. He doesn't realize that nowadays KNOWING programming barely places you in the pool of thousands that also KNOW programming. Most of the market is a race to the bottom, the work is seen by many employers as a dumb thing that needs to get done, and they just need to reduce the costs as much as possible to get this dumb thing out of the way.
You say that CS grads will know CS, but my lived experience doesn't match that.
I've interviewed many applicants for my team and all have had either a undergrad or master's in CS. They all struggled with basic data structures.
It would take over 30 minutes to answer basic counting problems
Not CS on Mumbai University of course. He is talking about western universities with a certain standard.
Can confirm your experience. I've worked and still work together with people I could swear they bought their cs masters on ebay.
@@5h4ndt Maybe they did. I think barely any company is actually demanding proof of a degree and there are enough people who just forge their CV simply because they know it's never checked and there are no consequences.
@@Asto508Maybe one or two. But not the hundreds of them I met till now and will continue to meet, it's not getting better....
@@Asto508I'm pretty sure most companies with >100 employees will do at least some form of background check
At 27 years as a Software Engineer/Architect, I remember how worried I was about Graduation. And towards the end of the my Junior year, and aperson asked my professor asked for students interested in interning for $15/hr (1996). I jumped on it, and that was the beginning of everything. I shudder to think what might have been if I hadn’t jumped. I got out with a degree and like 18 mos experience. It made all the difference in the world. I really feel for the younger folks and how hard it is to break in. Listen to Prime and video, this is solid advice
the thing is most cs majors now have years of experience coming out from research labs and internships as well. it's really just that new grad roles are impossible to get and they treat you like you have no experience unless you've interned at a top company.
@@blasted5477 to be fair interning and schooling are different things. The allure of a boot map grad is - generally speaking - the grads have went through a program that replicates a companies daily workflow. They're familiar with the tools, frameworks, and general practices of working as a team. The type of roles that align with what a student has been doing would seem to be a select few.
@@blasted5477 this is not true
My hourly is £14.50 and i got a high mark on my BA, applied to a good few places. In todays dollars you started on double my salary.. not so much an intern eh?
@@ZaKrlawI really wasn’t an intern, it was an entry level job. I was paid hourly w/ no benefits and everyone else was on salary. I worked 40 - 60 hours a week, but got overtime. I also attended Uni full time. It just felt important to work and get that resume padded.
I'm a few thousand rejections in. Working as a handyman atm
God damn
Have you considered career coaching? While a lot of people have a lot of rejections, but a few thousand would suggest that there are some serious issues at play.
@@xdega I've tried that. I graduated during Covid and never got to intern since they were mostly all closed. Been rough since
@plumbing1 this is correct
Eh I’d like to see your resume. Willing to bet it’s vacant and/or trash and you’ve done nothing to add/improve it
I graduated electrical engineering during the recession following 9/11. I had 4 prior internships, highest grades in my class, and still couldn't find meaningful work for 2 years. Sometimes it's tough out there.
Electrical Eng here too, 18 months internship, graduated into the 2008 recession. Had a jolly bad time.
another thing which I see way too often:
Only because you studied CS or in general want to be a programmer, doesn't mean you have to work at an IT company.
There are many other types of companies which need programmers.
We need people which program medical devices, cranes, cars, all kinds of machines.
A lot of non-IT companies also need programmers which do in-house software. Be it because they won't like the software on the market or there is non which works for them (obviously governments come to mind here, but also some manufacturing companies, after all, they create unique things too).
So please, don't forget that working as a programmer does not equal working at an IT company.
Problem is, if they even have the resouces, those companies aren’t willing to train people fresh off of college. Management doesn’t want to take risk on people who’s just going to eventually leave the company after just about two years which is a common practice in our field aparrently.
Actually, even big software companies are starting to do this more often. Before the pandemic hiring spree, IT companies opens a lot of training programs for junior devs to take advantage of. These days, the number of programs from tech companies seem to become less and less every year.
@@unhash631 Well, that seems to be an American company then.
I am from Germany where that's not a problem since A LOT of our education system is based on companies and schools working together.
For example for some engineering fields you do your final work (e.g. your Bachelor work) at a company, not at university (the university only grades it afterwards).
But then again, even in IT we don't have this "switch company every few years"-culture.
@@kuhluhOG I always heard Germany and few EU companies have a much more Superior Training based educational system, but America isn't like that.
The School system is horrible, from Grammar School, Highschool, to College. They just wants to pump students through the system, whatever happens next don't matter.
President Obama even shut down a whole bunch of for profit College because of that.
Most of the types of companies you talk about don't have the resources to train Newbies, or their IT dept is so small and have no idea how to train a newbie or have any rooms to train someone who couldn't hit the ground running.
Hear, hear!
"Luck is where preparation meets opportunity" is so true. I heard this first from John Medwedeff over some brews at Tres Hombres in Southern Illinois. It has stuck with me since.
Bro you're from Carbondale?
I'm from Europe and i get weekly requests from HRs for senior/lead positions and in countries like France or NL they pay pretty well for EU standards (i'm talking about 60 to 80k). It surprises me to know that US is like that.
yes here too, eu.
I was looking in the comments for this. I’m also from Europe (Netherlands) and the job market is still very strong here. I really don’t understand why this is different in the US.
@@sanderlissenburg1608tech bubble, companies massively over-hired a few years ago and now they're cutting back but they keep job application open for (tax purposes)
hey pal any good place to find european roles?
You missed the part where the guy was fresh out of college with zero relevant experience. Try that in the EU and report back :P
I am one of those who got REALLY lucky, I got tired of the studies I was doing and just drop out, picked up a course to update my current knowledge up to par with current web dev. That was start of 2019, and the friend we were having a bit of "competition" where both of us were stepping to development, and he got the 1st job he applied to. And I could not be "worse than he was", and ended up getting the first job I did not even apply to. I sent an email to company that had a local office, and was about to forget that, until I got email from the in house recruiter (talent acquisition head), and set up a call next day, I got take home project and week's time to complete it with a framework I had not even heard about. I sent the project, waited a week, followed up about it but our CTO who went over it had been sick that week, and I had interview in August with both of the team leads, and started as a dev 9th of September 2019, and still sticking around :p
I feel like today's job environment is vastly different from what it was a few years back. Getting an internship today is some seriously hard work. People who are trying to enter this job landscape now have to compete with laid off FAANG employees, or just people with much more experience in general. The requirement for an entry level internship are getting ridiculous and its going to get worse as AI improves. Like take devin. While it is nowhere near good right now, it could in the nearby future be as good as an intern, and then that would be the new bar for entry. So I feel like a lot people are stuck in the cycle of need experience to get experience, and its not a fun place to be in.
You'reentirely right... but that's the advantage of tech the barrier to just making something on your own is ridiculously low but people don't do that they just do useless leetcode with 0 application to real life instead. So yes you need experience but that experience can be making your own thing, unlike say a biomechanical engineer that's literally impossible to do on your own or urban planning engineers or whatever
Study to become a senior dev. Only option left.
You are spot on. Everybody always talks about how low barrier to entry is a good thing. It’s not. It creates insane competition and gives control back to the higher ups. We are heavily skewed in favor of the rich vs everyday workers. It will only get worse.
This semesters career fair mostly consisted of many students looking for co-ops (Internships needed to graduate) and full-time SWE jobs and most companies were not hiring full-time, very few openings, just asked you to apply online and not taking resumes, hours long lines just to be asked to apply online. This was similar to last semesters career fair but I feel last semester there was more hiring full-time positions. I go to tech school, graduating this May with a BS in Software Engineering. I did not feel I was able to get much out of the experience this semester than previous semesters, when I was looking for co-ops, just wanting to see what skills companies were looking for or talking with companies to improve my elevator pitch. I was disappointed with this experience as I was hoping to utilize the career fair to get my post-graduation job.
100% agree with Trade School for computing. I started in '89 when it was not possible to study anything but programming in Uni, and I wanted to do infrastructure at the time. I was super lucky to have a boss who had installed the first Cray Computer into GCHQ (UK Pentigon). I got to learn 30+ years of experience. This would have been impossible to get at uni at the time.
We should be offering young people direct access to learn at work with trade school. Many who would not fair well at Uni are excellent programmers or network engineers.
Hey Andrew, We have that here in Germany. You can go to a trade school for that. You apply at a normal company, but you go to work 3 days a week, and 2 days you go to school. It takes 3 years. You do get paid during all that time, but the pay is very low, about 1000 Euros/month.
@@johanneswelsch when I was doing mine at 17, I was getting paid 24 pounds a month (1989). I find it a fair exchange for great learning. It was really hard, and I needed to get extra benefit's to cover housing etc...
However, by 21, I had attained enough skill to get a job at Intel when they were #4 in the world.
I'd leapfrogged all those that did go to uni.
that one guy is milking this subject so hard tho
Anything for the views
THANK YOU. Cant even watch the video.
The typical "bullshiter" that says stuff that sounds good but has the depth of a AI generated response.
This guy had a SAT tutor?! Like an actual personal human tutor? Serious rich Asian boy vibes. I failed one of the two major standardized tests the first time around and then used software to beat it the second time. The software literally told me to stop second-guessing my original answer because 100% of the time I changed from my first answer, I changed it to the wrong answer AND wasted valuable time doing so. I passed with flying colors the second time around. But a human tutor for a standardized test? Oy vey. Also, the fact that the SAT and ACT are loaded with trick questions that causes really smart people to fail makes those standardized tests worse than useless.
If I was hiring and the guy told me about a SAT tutor, I'd reject him in a second!
If you can't do SAT on your own...🤭
I remember going to a career fair in my 2nd year of college. After standing in a line for an hour there was finally just one guy left before it was my turn. I heard the guy in front of me who was a last year masters student talk about his personal projects, research projects, multiple internships, his perfect 4.0 gpa... And then he asked for an internship, not even a full-time job. I remember thinking if even this guy is asking for an internship, then how am I supposed to compete? It's tough out there. And this was 4 years ago.
I recently spent 10 months as an intern at a company that opened up a position that would have been what i was doing. I applied to the position but the company went with another candidate with 15+ years of experience compared to my 1.5 ish years. it took me years and well over 1k applications to get this position in a field that is constantly in the papers due to "worker shortages"
Just because there is an open position, doesn't mean you can just accept anyone no matter how lacking they are in experience or other required skills. It's often better to leave a position open for years than hiring someone who needs substantial training and have the attached risk that the person won't grow into the role in the end.
@@Asto508 in this case i was already trained, had all the needed access and had shown that i was more than capable of performing the responsibilities for the role except for one task that i was not allowed to do as an intern
@@Ettap96 Well, I can't judge your individual case here and it also depends on how many applicants have been there for this position, but seemingly the people in the seats had their reasons not to consider you or maybe they did and you still lost because the other guy was objectively better or there were other external reasons. Unless you have a deeper insight into how and why the process turned out, it's difficult to say, but don't make the mistake to think there weren't good reasons for it.
When i hear "worker shortages" now i assume they mean "the amount of workers who we feel can do this job without much training is low so we want to increase the hiring pool so we can pay less".
@@Asto508 I dont really know why as i didnt get to know anything else than they decided to go with the other candidate that made it through the 3 stage interview prosses
I have been out of work for a few months. I have had multiple recruiters and HR folk tell me they get hundreds of applicants now for each job posting. It is hard to stand out right now. Networking is probably the best route to getting a job. I've gotten most of my jobs through referrals or recruiters. I may have a job soon with an old boss. They're just trying to get the job approved with the company.
I had my head shift forward half way through senior year of my CS degree and have been increasingly unable to work for the past few years, until I started taking physical therapy and ergonomics hyper serious. Not taking your ergonomics serious can cost/delay your career significantly. When my neck slipped forward I began having headaches that made it increasingly difficult to think, sit, and work. Make sure to care for your bodies early and start a Physical Therapy program to keep them strong.
bro I "woke" up in my fourth year and I'm in my fourth year. My brain just started to understand everything and why all these CS stuff existed. But it's a little too late for me. 😂😂😂😂
I've been at this close to three decades myself. Self taught. I've spent 10-15 hours a week beyond the job to expand my knowledge and understanding. Honing my craft. I will work on side projects, experiment and just constantly read. From hacker news to email newsletters and limited articles.
You can't rest if you want to keep moving forward. I've seen too many developers at 50+ who are stuck with the language and tools they are using. Can't count the devs who don't understand the use of simple queue servers or how public-private key crypto works even conceptually.
It's not even as wild as liked lists, binary trees and sorting.
On the other side, on the interview side, I've been disinclined to hire someone who hasn't done more than what they were assigned in school or boot camp. Passion counts for a lot here.
Right now, I'm about 3 months into a job search after taking 4 months off for personal/medical reasons. It's truly rough right now.
my data struct class was more of recreating data structs in C++ from scratch, and algorithms was more about proving why algorithm X works, along with other things that really lean into academic / mathematical side of it. It really was a "Computer Science" class in every sense of it, not a "Software Engineering" class, where you stack aces up your sleeves when it comes to solving leetcode style problems and build real world applications.
I graduated in 2001 and had a career in support for 10 years (MSP mainly) Fairly illustrious performance history. 3000 rejections in as well.
Urgh, the title killed me because I am also in the midst of getting rejected
I am now in my 100th rejection, even though I literally had 2 to 3 year experience before I chose to go back to university
When I graduated, I sent out over 1000 resumes before I got a job. Granted plenty of those were shotgun resume approach, just tossing them everywhere. But still, thats pretty scary.
After a couple years of experience, I applied to jobs again, and got 2 jobs from 5 resumes sent. Its amazing what actual experience does for your prospects
5:02 “by the time I was done, I wanted to be in school”
Same story for me too!! 😂
worked at a startup for 5 years, it learned me every aspect of software development, from customer interaction, support, UI/UX, Frontend / backend, hardware app development, CI/CD. Everything.
i guess i'm different, all the acquaintances in college all went their own way, none of them will help each other out. They are all busy finding jobs, and it is like battle royal you don't have true ally. I don't understand what Prime is talking about. The people who I met after college who will help me are non programmers, since they need a programmer to help them achieve projects or getting things done.
True the battle royal bit is so real
I've never seen a career fair where any of the companies were hiring. The ones I attended were a total waste of time. All the companies would just say "Oh we're not actually hiring".
The ones I've been to were like 50/50. Half of them were hiring and half weren't. However the positions were advertised also on their website and on linkedin so they were not necessarily looking to fill the positions on the spot. Plus a lot of the positions were not even suited for recent graduates or students as they required 2+ of experience.
I know one person only that sort of got a job through a fair and they were at first rejected and then contacted months later to be offered the same position which they accepted.
Never take anyone over 30's advice for job searching. This dude is extremely out of touch, still lives in 2007.
600 rejections? that's nothing... i got 1200 rejections before getting a job, and not even an ideal or decent job.
You need to review his resume, interview responses, and the type of jobs he's applying. There's a red flag somewhere.
Bluds out here treating rejections like a dick measuring contest lmao.
yep, that's what I'm thinking. If he got rejected for 600 ENTRY LEVEL roles, then there's most definetly a bunch of red flags in his resume/interviewing process that got exposed every time
@@shyshka_ he most likely came off as pretentious, as he did in the video. People generally can smell that shit right away
I was gonna say. In the year of our lord twenty twenty three? 600 rejected applications in tech is not that many, unless these were all custom tailored for each job posting. And even then. That’s 5 per day for 4 months. Those are rookie numbers.
the red flag is the guy saying "your experience is nothing because I suffer more".
I'm on over 1500 rejections and I still haven't found a job. That's because I'm self-taught with very little experience of development in the professional world.
What 😮
@@johnchris2122 Took me over 6 years when I graduated in 2009. I had to take unrelated jobs as millions of out of work oeple who had years of experience were willing to work for minimum wage to code by 2010. I am not making that up Literally you could get a javascript developer for free for references or $10/hr.
I'm well over 4000. Welcome to the club my good friend.
@@IvanBerdichevsky the grind continues
@@johnchris2122 Sadly. Unwillingly. :(
I’ve found the people sent to a career fair have zero decision making authority or influence in the organization. They just tend to send the bubbly people or someone who doesn’t want to be there.
I absolutely love the "going off on a random tangent-agen" outros!
Agreed lol
I was laid off with a large group of colleagues in December. I am well over 1,000 rejections so far, have two years enterprise experience as a dev, first degree is complete and second degree is currently in progress online with WGU. The two interviews (dsa code challenges) I did manage to get an invite for either didn't receive feedback, OR I got 10/10 (test cases passed) on two of three problems and 8/10 on the last problem (which I was actually proud of.) At this point I am more or less out of time and will need to take a job in person at a local hospital scanning emrs and other relatively mindless tasks. Want to destroy my resume and portfolio sometime? Five of five will let you publicize :D
I cheated every time for a job. I learned the magic words. I learned how politicans, fraudsters, ceo, and therapist influence people... then i went to the person everyone couldnt explain why, but was magical so to speak... it took 5 years, but i figured it out.
to this day... I never tell anyone.... it works so great... until you are facing an ATS.
Cmon gimme a starting point, so I can teach myself
@@goofyahhdude365 I believe it's called lying and not getting caught
As a person who’s going through this right now I just wanna say I’ve found your channel and you’ve given me so much motivation to go deep and really work hard
Here in Norway we have the equivalent of a computer science trade school thing or something similar to it. The first year is split between media and IT/programming, then the second year is split between just IT, and programming, then you intern for 2 years either with programming, or with IT.
Though since it's so divided, it doesn't go through data structures, OS stuff, compilers, etc (the school portion was basically learning how to write code, how to work on projects, and how to use git), so I've had to learn that on my own while going to school and while interning.
5:57 top search result. We got him boys.
Unfortunately, the career fairs we have at my school, the recruiters were not really interested in actually recruiting. They would not accept any resumes and tell everyone to apply on their website. Very annoying.
i come from a working class family. Always had problems to get along with people with an academic background. I graduated 4 years ago in electrical engineering and i was only able to find 2 jobs. I was bullied out of these companies because of my working class background. And now nobody will hire me anymore.
The EV companies are looking for lots of electrical engineers, and they're not full of academics because they mostly aren't flush with cash to just hand out to people who do nothing.
this is a very good example for bullying. someone just imputes that someone is doing nothing and he doesnt even know them.
@@diandradeeke that's...that's not bullying. Shittalking, yes, hasty generalizing, yes. Bullying no.
My problem is when you apply, then get the radio silence treatment for a couple months, then rejected
Rough man 😂
When HR seemingly is located at Proxima Centauri.
if they bother to respond at all
Everybody who has applied before the year of 2023 is irrelevant, things are way different and changed the last 2 years, let’s hear some things from people with relevant knowledge not useless old 2022 and back knowledge
While I have a job, I'll say this: nobody's hiring, not our company, not anyone else's. Including our clients are reducing staff. That's the way it is now and this is why it's hard to find jobs. If there are 5000 jobs in the country and 100,000 are looking for one, then there is a large number of those who will never find one, because there aren't any.
Agreed as a bootcamp grad in my first three years of work i think i probably spent around five years of time in total working and learnign as its just not enough coming off a bootcamp into commercial settings these days. I literally used to start at 7am and I would finish my day still learning, watching, or building my own stuff to fill the gaps until around 2am most nights it was insane. Do i regret it not one bit as its rocketed my career to a place i was never expecting coming off a frontend bootcamp
As someone with zero programming knowledge, I have zero understanding about the vast majority of topics you talk about… but goddamn, I love the way you talk about the things I don’t understand❤️
"A little bit every day and you're there before you know it" is useful across all of life. Hell, I fold my laundry with that mantra. Empty that giant fucking pile onto my bed when the drier dings. Every time I walk by the bed, I fold 3-5 items.
That way I don't become the crazy.
I have a BSCS, 7 years experience as a software engineer and I did a Data Science Bootcamp. I have not been able to get an interview in 5+ years of sending resumes and filling out applications. I did Uber for 2 years and I am now working in a Amazon Warehouse until I either can get an inhouse promotion or bootstrap my own business. I have heard chatter from many with similar experiences.
35:00 That was literally always the reason why my friendships broke apart. Changing school.
Saying that it's hard to maintain long distance friendships is imo an understatement.
The UA-camr who doesn’t need to live off a normal 9-5 for a living , completely disconnected from the reality of the normal person. Who would’ve guessed
yeah well between:
- AI tools for screening
- companies wanting only people with experience
- companies moving development to india
- dumb HR questions
- 1.000 tools required (and telling people "you know the principles and can learn it fast" doesn't work)
it's hard
Nah the ending was pure "get real" stuff. One of the best videos on this channel so far. Never laughed so much in my life
This is exactly what happened to me... eventually I just got lucky playing the numbers. But honestly I knew the entire time that unless I practically created my own startup and became my own boss, there was no shot I could get a job outside of being incredibly lucky. They always wanted years of prior professional experience in the industry, especially "entry level" jobs which I am not joking a lot of them want 5+ or 10+ years of experience.
It was quite obvious that the whole IT boom would be over when Corona restrictions were lifted. But 600 applications, that is crazy. I wrote like 30 in my whole life.
One good advice is, do dual education. I did my high school combined with an apprenticeship already focused on electronics and IT. When I graduated I already knew enough to work in IT. After that I did a dual degree, working for a big IT company and getting paid while studying. The 3 years of working while studying count to employers as work experience, which automatically brings extra credit for new positions.
In the USA, a new tax law came into effect in 2022 where your employer must now deduct any software developer salary expense over FIVE YEARS instead of just the one like they do for other employees. This makes software developers VERY EXPENSIVE in the USA now. If you make 100K a year in salary, your employer is only able to deduct 20K of that as an operating expense in that same year. So a 100K developer must generate 500K of value each year just for a company to break even. Also, if they lay you off, you become like an income stream for the company even though you no longer work there as they can deduct your salary over the next four years after you are gone. All software work must now be treated like R&D or R&E for tax purposes in the USA.
Vote Biden durhur
no, the law was already reverted by a bill that holds until 2026. companies must deduct within 1 year now. however, it DID cause a lot of layoffs
If people still think that blasting resumes to as many companies as possible is the best way to get a job, it’s no wonder people aren’t finding anything
Over here in Germany I get an invitation and usually an offer 100% of the time I write an application, but damn the market here starts to get screwed too. They make senior experience look like entry level and want to pay far below market value, which is why I already lose interest to continue their interview process myself and reject. Why should I take a job with more responsibility, less salary and on a lower position, than I currently have? I'm not little Timmy coming out of grade school, I'm having 15 years of experience and either we talk like equal business partners or I'll reject myself even if I get an offer.
i live in germany too, i graduated right at the beginning of the pandemic. 4 years have passed since than and i am still struggling to find a job in tech.
Da kann ich dir nur zustimmen. Die Firmen verlangen von einem sehr viel, die haben nicht alles Tassen im Schrank. Es wird noch schlimmer...
"I've had a few moments in my life where I have done number 1, but for the vast majority of my life I've done number 2. Unfortunately. I am that guy."
- Prime, 2024
I wish career fairs are what they used to be, since the pandemic our career fairs have had way fewer companies and now they just do mass statewide zoom calls and you maybe get to talk to someone who really wishes you werent talking for like a minute max and you submit your resume to an online portal instead of them actually having it in hand. Same thing with him talking about college motivation, his experience of college and new grad job searching just doesn't exist anymore and a lot of his experience still applies of course but not all of it.
I attended school without any money. Without wealthy parents, I took out a student loan. I despised being in debt so during my first year of school, as my debt increased, I secured a data entry job at a university research institution. This simple job taught me data management, data structures, and systems as used in the real world.
This introduction opened doors to a different research institution, where I took on even greater responsibilities. I held roles as a lead developer, network administrator, and database administrator.
The skills I gained while working surpassed classroom learning. I graduated debt-free. Crucially, my job provided me with the contacts for an opportunity at a leading tech firm. No job interview was needed.
maybe 600 rejections is a sign that low skilled labor in dev is not in demand anymore
Sorry I should be higher skilled without being in industry
A lot of your advice around friends and life are absolutely spot on as someone who's bumbled around and made mistakes just the same. I feel you do a good job of emphasizing the ability to always improve regardless of failure while not making failure negative.
I think that second part gets lost sometimes, the idea of talking about failures without them defining the person who's failed and is especially hard when doing this exact kind of content. I respect that a ton
We are in a recession. Companies are looking to become leaner at this time. And they all have the buzz of AI in their ear. Tough times
Ok... very good video... but I just want to say this was by far the most epic and complete Prime outro I've ever heard.
Definitely one of the most enlightening clips posted here. The preparation story was very relatable.
I think it's because of the supply outweighs the demand.
Most new IT guys learn how to code not because they love it, they dream to have a well-paid job.
I still remember my first job that I were looking for, it have to have a lot thing to do in a day, the money is just enough for me to survice month by month.
My advice, spam on internship job postings and try to get one in a company while you are a student. Then, wven if you don't like the job to much try to join that company after university. And move job positions while inside the same company. Stay there for a while and then switch companies.
This is a boring but save route.
Sadly doing an internship while studying isn't realistic with how higher education works in my country. Even if it were, very few companies are looking for interns
This is good advice. Stick with a company for a bit and move up inside that company.
Also having to deal with the code you wrote a few years ago is great for learning. If you don't look back at your code decisions and say what was I thinking you have not developed your skills enough.
As a bootcamp grad, I wanna let you all know that there's a boatload of work out there for companies that will need you for years to do what he described, which is not use anything CS related and build people apps that just help folks do business. You'll never get past a social skills issue, though...so you need to be sociable.
Career Fairs are mostly resume farming ops, no different than linked in recruiters sending you a possibly fake job posting and ending with "please send me your resume"
Also, a lot tech interviews are kind of broken, too. When I interview candidates, I at least make sure that my questions are _relevant_ to the actual job/position. When I've been interviewed, I've had questions that were so unrelated and irrelevant to the eventual every-day tasks that it was absurd.
Oh man! Tech dude looks like he's working/living in one of those new high rises in Denver! Good times.
no offense but this guy (primeagen) got a lucky break in his career to end up at a "brand name" company which automatically boosts your ability to land new jobs AND he's made himself techy influencer, which again shields him from the experience that most software engineers will go through these days to change jobs. I know plenty of people in the big tech bubble companies that coast by on their resume while other very capable engineers struggle with 100s of applications to change jobs because they never worked at the big / famous companies.