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Robert Grijalva
Приєднався 16 вер 2013
How a Grand Piano Action Works
I created this video for my piano technology intro course offered to piano majors at the University of Michigan School of Music, Theatre & Dance. It includes a review of all the parts of the grand piano action, as well as a section that explains in detail what happens when a key is depressed. Go Blue!
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Відео
Lacquering methodology explained.
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These videos were created to give my sister-in-law a peek at some of the processes I employ to rebuild a Steinway piano keyboard and hammer action. They are casual videos I shot in my basement wood shop, using methods and techniques that I have learned in my 40 years as a piano technician specializing in Steinway restoration.
Teresa's Steinway Action Model
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This is the Steinway action model I made from scratch for my daughter Teresa. It represents the latest technology that Steinway has placed in their new pianos, with the small exceptions of the high leverage balance rail bearing of my own design, and the Stanwood-style wippen assist spring. I have included a Renner damper tray with a working damper lever and damper stop rail. The sostenuto is on...
Juicing Hammers
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This is a short video showing my method for lacquer application on the current production New York Steinway hammer.
Packing a Steinway L keyboard action for shipping
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These videos were created to give my sister-in-law a peek at some of the processes I employ to rebuild a Steinway piano keyboard and hammer action. They are casual videos I shot in my basement wood shop, using methods and techniques that I have learned in my 40 years as a piano technician specializing in Steinway restoration.
Final Inspection of a restored Steinway L keyboard action
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These videos were created to give my sister-in-law a peek at some of the processes I employ to rebuild a Steinway piano keyboard and hammer action. They are casual videos I shot in my basement wood shop, using methods and techniques that I have learned in my 40 years as a piano technician specializing in Steinway restoration.
Painting sharps with India Ink
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These videos were created to give my sister-in-law a peek at some of the processes I employ to rebuild a Steinway piano keyboard and hammer action. They are casual videos I shot in my basement wood shop, using methods and techniques that I have learned in my 40 years as a piano technician specializing in Steinway restoration.
Weighing off a piano keyboard action
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These videos were created to give my sister-in-law a peek at some of the processes I employ to rebuild a Steinway piano keyboard and hammer action. They are casual videos I shot in my basement wood shop, using methods and techniques that I have learned in my 40 years as a piano technician specializing in Steinway restoration.
Plugging piano keys with wood plugs
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These videos were created to give my sister-in-law a peek at some of the processes I employ to rebuild a Steinway piano keyboard and hammer action. They are casual videos I shot in my basement wood shop, using methods and techniques that I have learned in my 40 years as a piano technician specializing in Steinway restoration.
Bushing replacement on piano keys
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These videos were created to give my sister-in-law a peek at some of the processes I employ to rebuild a Steinway piano keyboard and hammer action. They are casual videos I shot in my basement wood shop, using methods and techniques that I have learned in my 40 years as a piano technician specializing in Steinway restoration.
Hammer spacing on a Jig
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These videos were created to give my sister-in-law a peek at some of the processes I employ to rebuild a Steinway piano keyboard and hammer action. They are casual videos I shot in my basement wood shop, using methods and techniques that I have learned in my 40 years as a piano technician specializing in Steinway restoration.
Pinning hammershanks for friction
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These videos were created to give my sister-in-law a peek at some of the processes I employ to rebuild a Steinway piano keyboard and hammer action. They are casual videos I shot in my basement wood shop, using methods and techniques that I have learned in my 40 years as a piano technician specializing in Steinway restoration.
Gram Scale set-up for weighing hammers on a Steinway action
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These videos were created to give my sister-in-law a peek at some of the processes I employ to rebuild a Steinway piano keyboard and hammer action. They are casual videos I shot in my basement wood shop, using methods and techniques that I have learned in my 40 years as a piano technician specializing in Steinway restoration.
Weighing hammers on a gram scale
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These videos were created to give my sister-in-law a peek at some of the processes I employ to rebuild a Steinway piano keyboard and hammer action. They are casual videos I shot in my basement wood shop, using methods and techniques that I have learned in my 40 years as a piano technician specializing in Steinway restoration.
Recording hammer weight data for a Steinway L action
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These videos were created to give my sister-in-law a peek at some of the processes I employ to rebuild a Steinway piano keyboard and hammer action. They are casual videos I shot in my basement wood shop, using methods and techniques that I have learned in my 40 years as a piano technician specializing in Steinway restoration.
Arcing the tails of Steinway hammers
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Arcing the tails of Steinway hammers
Hammer Filing Basics on a Steinway L action
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Hammer Filing Basics on a Steinway L action
Traveling hammers on a Steinway Model L action
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Traveling hammers on a Steinway Model L action
Hanging Hammers for a Steinway L Grand Piano
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Hanging Hammers for a Steinway L Grand Piano
Hocus pocus All your DW measurements are based on wacking the stack with your hand Tolerances no more refined than + or- 5 grams
I've never used this method myself - nor have I ever seen this done in this this way before. Moreover, my copy of the piano tuner's 'bible' - Reblitz - makes no mention of this either. I guess I'd have to try it for myself in order to see if it actually works. My own method is as described by Arthur Reblitz, using a hand-held sanding block. I should add that I have 46 years' experience working as a piano tuner/technician.
I belive, Steinway T-short may help to make good job!
This is a brilliant video!
Tienes las medidas para reproducir?
Your Magic line is wrong, on the line it's not the half capstan, but it should be the point of contact between the capstan and the wippen heel cushion.
Love it. Looks great and I can see you have a lot of experience. But still I wonder why so many people use this method while having such great jigs (like the hammer hanging jig of spurlock).
This was the most throughout and ordered explanation I have seen of this marvelous mechanism. Many thanks to you, for explaining so well something that was making me scratch my head so much.
Be cautious about adding too much weight to the keys. It not only changes key weight, it also increases the mass of the key. This affects inertia and slows repetition. There are other techniques for changing touch weight without increasing key mass.
Really fascinating. I own a Bluthner X (230 cm) and its action needs to be adjusted, so I am looking for information what will be done by the technician. I just like to get a general idea, what they have to do. Your method seems to be really interesting and precise. The up-weight is 28 g, the down-weight is 46, the exact center is the balance weight of 37 g. The distance from up to ballance or from down to ballance is 9 g and that is the friction. Here is what I do not fully understand. As far as I (a rather untalented hobby player) know from personal experience, the down-weight must be perfectly even (either exactly the same weight everywhere or - as Steinway does it with a very small decrease from base to trebble). But the up-weight is actually a result of the desired down-weight, let's stick with the 46 g you set up here, and the friction. At a quick glance I saw numbers of 8 to 12 g friction written on your hammers. So looking at the 12 g friction key: with your down-weight of 46 g you would have an up-weight of 22 g, resulting at a ballance weight of 34 g At the 8 g friction key you will have a down-weight of 46 g, an upweight of 30 g and a ballance weight of 38 g. In the end I do not understand, why the ballance weight is so relevant, if it still is different from key to key based on different friction. If of course your method would be to even out friction first (equal friction = equal ballance), I would understand the ballance purpose. My piano technician btw told me, he will replace at my action what needs to be replaced. Then he will adjust it as well as he can. And then he will adjust the down-weight to my liking with leading with the general restriction, that no up-weight must be below 20 or 22 g.
Hello, how many meters of keybushing felt do you use to replace all of it?
I usually cut about a dozen strips of key bushing cloth for each rail. Each strip is about 15 cm. long (6 inches). So, 360 cm, or 144 inches. That should be enough to cover both sets of bushings.
Thank you for the great description. That is really interesting , The person who made this mechanism several centuries ago was really a genius
Fantastic presentation. Wish I had this much detail given to me 10 years ago. Thank you Sir !
what do you use to measure the friction of the hammer ??
1:15 Absolutely valid point, but there are still some remarkable pianists that I have spotted doing this, Seong-Jin Cho for example comes to mind. Tremendous technique and I highly doubt he doesn't know it's pointless for achieving "vibrato". I reckon some might do it to force the finger to be relaxed instead of tensing up when holding a note?! Just an idea 😄 Thank you for this video!
Nooooo! All 3 legs on FIRST, pedals on AFTERWARD. Tipping a piano over on the lyre is the lazy way and harmful to the mechanism and structure.. I'm glad these movers are nowhere near where i live.
I think you are responding to someone else about the topic of moving a piano. I do not have any videos about piano moving on my channel. Sorry.
Sorry. my laptop/tracpad was acting strange on UA-cam in the wee hours last night. -John, the old Bechstein guy@@robertgrijalva7158
let s say alleluha to the Lord cause of you and your epic tutorial🎉
Thank you. I appreciate it.
An obvious question: Does this work for upright pianos? Not everyone has a grand piano.
Hi Bob! Great videos! I worked with you and Ken Sloan in the tech shop at Oberlin in 1984 as Steinway began the hammer updates. Good to see you again!
Thanks for the note, Randy. It's not fair that you don't have a picture of your face in your e-mail! I'm a bit older, as you can see, and I've now retired from the University of Michigan School of Music, Theatre, and Dance. I had a good run of 35 years as Executive Director of Piano Technology and Assistant Professor in the piano department. But, I'll be tuning around Ann Arbor for the foreseeable future, for the few clients I had while I was full-time at U of M.
@@robertgrijalva7158 Sounds like a wonderful life! I'm in NC teaching with a little tuning on the side. I'd like to up my piano tech skills though. Do you have any recommendations for piano tech education/certification programs?
WOW, this is so fine. With this knowledge, one could build the pyramids! Thanks for posting. I was just looking for info (I found) on replacing ivory/plastic key tops and saw this 'Weighing' video related. I'm glad I watched - with your enthusiasm and clarity, I now want to get into 'weighing' my good ole Kawai upright! This makes it interesting and clear. Many thanks!
Good video Robert! Have you tried Durhams hard putty? I just plugged a set and it was very fast. I’ve always used wood plugs but this seemed to work well and didn’t shrink. Weight is similar to wood and it looks good. Very good videos by the way! Thanks. J
Getting my regulating tools tomorrow and I'm going to be studying piano regulation and tuning. I need to get an action model. This was extremely helpful in understanding how a grand action works! Fascinating and very educational. Thanks for posting this.
300 years of piano building! Are You telling me, these parts, You have so nicely demonstrated, are, basically standard parts? Big or small pianos?
This video is great ! Thank you so much
This method is NOT about achieving even Down Weight. The point of this method is to achieve even Balance Weight! Also, I think you are basing your comment about the number of leads from your observation of those leads sitting atop the keys only. These are leads that I added to existing leads in the keys, so you don't get a picture of the even distribution of the leads at the conclusion of the effort. Additionally, lead plugs have different sizes and weights, so the total amount of lead is actually pretty consistent from key to key. The resulting inertia is pretty consistent from key to key. The bottom line is that if you achieve an even Balance Weight, the other physical considerations fall into line: a discernable key leading pattern and inertia naturally follow. Lastly, I should point out that this is a RE-leading job. I had to make certain compromises, such as the different sized leads, in order to not have to remove and plug an excessive number of original leads. This keyboard started out with 5 and 6 leads in the bass, four in the middle, three in capo #1, and and two leads in capo #2 all the way up to note 88! In the end, I balanced it such that the result was three leads in the bass, two leads in the middle of the piano, one lead throughout most of the capo section of the keyboard, and I only had to back-lead two keys! I did not have the option to replace the original keyframe and keys with a new keyframe and keys. Were that the case, I could have stuck with one size of lead and achieved a cleaner leading pattern from the start. I hope this helps you to better understand what I undertook to do with this particular set of keys.
I thought the point in weighing the keys is to achieve even down weight, i.e. even touch within set parameter (50 grams +/- 2)? With your method you will achieve completely (and possibly wildly) different down weight between most keys, making the resistance to touch from key to key feel different (which is the exact opposite of the point of the exercise).
Such a cool technical video!
What a fantastic video. You are a great instructor. The pacing of each individual explanation of components was spot on. Thanks for taking the time to make this.
But it's NOT balanced. You can tell just by looking at the leads. For example one key has one lead and a neighbor has two leads. That means the inertia is all over the place too. So you might get the downweight even, but its at the expense of every other parameter.
And then how would it be balanced? I wonder the same thing, although in reality what is sought is the uniformity of the action, mathematically inertia would not be affected if the order of the factors does not alter the product? What method could you recommend so that it is balanced without altering the inertia? I would appreciate.
Austin C. “the claim that you are only talking about vibrato” …… I think you should re-listen to that part of the video again. He says exactly that he is talking about the desire to add vibrato by wiggling a finger on the depressed key. I’m not sure why you are having difficulty hearing and remembering his exact words and then claiming he said something else. After all, you can re-play the video all you want to get the details down if you need to instead of twisting things to make your own unrelated claim.
The reason the design is what it is is due to evolution. Rather than start from scratch when there is a new problem or a new understanding one adapts. Through the process of evolution small changes can add up to a significant effect. One can easily accomplish the same effect fewer parts but requiring more complexity and modern tech. This is basic systems engineering. There are only two things going on, the hammer hitting the string(simple impulse theory which is extremely simple and straight forward) and then the performance aspects which is in the area of optimization and fine tuning. A lot of man hours were put in to adapt early primitive designs which handled the main effect(that of making a sound) in to adding a benefit to either sound quality or performance quality. In fact there were many extension that were lost yet were actually beneficial(but not popular to the masses) or detrimental. There's many ways to skin a cat.
A lot of this at the start is nonsense. One doesn't have to have a clue on how something works internally to know how to use it externally. Look at all the people who drive cars, 99% have no clue how a car really works. In fact, you don't have to know how something works to know how to use it. That is kinda the point in some sense. If we did we could never get anywhere in life as we would have to learn everything to the infinite degree just to use it effectively. Sure, knowing how something works internally can speed up learning in some ways and cases and such but given the amount of time a piano player practices it is almost surely that they will develop an internal feel for what is going on with never truly knowing the details. There really is very little a pianist can do to a key. He just moves his finger down. All the "action" is translated in to how he perceives the effect which we call "staccato", "legato", "accent", etc. Hence why a child can play a Mozart sonata extremely well without having any idea of mechanics. As far as "vibrato" holding down a key, as an example, it is irrelevant if a pianist thinks he is modifying the sound when he is not. If it makes him feel better then so be it. If he plays better thinking that way then so be it. If a person actually knew music performance they would know that anything that enhances performance, feel, etc is not silly and ineffectual. Don't get me wrong, I think it's always important to learn as much as one can as it can only help(well, almost surely). I'm simply saying that as humans we do not need to understand the details of how something works to take full advantage of it's capabilities. Practice teaches us how things work in "metaphor". With enough playing and awareness one can figure out the true nature of how the mechanism works for piano playing and understand it far better the an any engineer that does not know how to play even without a clue about levers, springs, escapement, etc.
I totally disagree that there is no function for holding a key down after the hammer has already struck. It helps the pianist to maintain the weight and force required to make the next note match. But... You master technicians like to claim that you are master pianists. And vice versa. We should all maintain some humility to accept that we don't understand everything.
I think you misunderstood me. I did not say that holding the key down is not something a pianist might wish to do, merely that wiggling one’s fingers as if to affect a vibrato on the depressed key is not in any way going to affect the tone of the note. On your other comment about master technicians, et al, I don’t generally mention that I have two degrees in piano performance (Oberlin ‘79 and UW-Madison ‘81), and completed 30 hours toward a DMA before I changed direction toward piano technology. I’ve dedicated my 40 years as a piano technician to bridging the gap in communication between pianists and the piano technicians on whom they rely. This was my mission as Asst. Professor of Piano Technology at the University of Michigan School of Music, Theatre & Dance. I submit to you, with humility, that I understand extremely well how a piano action works.
@@robertgrijalva7158 You are now gravitating toward the claim that you are only talking about vibrato. The fact is, pianists NEED to change the weight/force applied to a note EVEN AFTER THE KEY HAS BEEN DEPRESSED in order to accurately and smoothly crescendo or decrescendo to the next note in a manner and timing that creates a smooth transition. An inexperienced pianist will create a crescendo effect by resetting their applied force between each note. An experienced pianist will increase the force while holding down the key, so that a smooth crescendo effect can be achieved. Keep an open mind. I like this quote: "Don't believe everything you think." We should all keep this wisdom in mind before claiming to be super-smart.
You clearly are are an inexperienced pianist on top of being arrogant . Any professional pianist understand to maintain the key depressed when you want the damper to be raised as this is the only thing that could happen once the hammer has hit the key . Trying to maintain the force is to be avoided at all cost given you wasting energy for nothing and any serious pianist knows that it’s precisely at that moment that can release the tension . In a nutshell , applying force at the bottom of the key after the hammer has done its job is as silly as trying to vibrate the key literally .
@@austinc1386 “the claim that you are only talking about vibrato” …… I think you should re-listen to that part of the video again. He says exactly that he is talking about the desire to add vibrato by wiggling a finger on the depressed key. I’m not sure why you are having difficulty hearing and remembering his exact words and then claiming he said something else. After all, you can re-play the video all you want to get the details down if you need to instead of twisting things to make your own unrelated claim.
@Austin C You have no idea about what you are really talking about when it comes to creating a sound in a mechanical instrument such as a grand piano.
Thank you so much! Every single time I am amazed at how incredibly all the parts of the action are interacting to create a flawless performance! Without all this effort being put into creating a perfect action, and without the technicians to make it work perfectly well, pianist would not exist! Thank you again!
Thank you for recognizing that it takes technicians with great skill to make piano actions perform in a way that meets the demands of artists around the world!
Hi Robert my piano cant make repeated notes that well, Is there a way to make piano make repeated notes better?
I assume you are speaking of a grand piano action that doesn't repeat well. There are a number of reasons that a grand piano may not repeat well. First and foremost is whether or not the piano is in good mechanical regulation. Assuming you believe that it is in reasonable regulation, then there are three different things I would prioritize to investigate. First is springs. Are your repetition springs adjusted so that they give a nice "salute" when you release pressure on the key after the hammer is checked? Mind you, the salute cannot be so fast that it kicks the key under your finger, but you want it to be as fast as it can be without kicking back on your finger. Second, backcheck height. The higher your backcheck height is, the faster your repetition spring can be adjusted to. This is because as you decrease the distance between the backcheck height and the drop height of the hammer, the hammer travels a shorter distance when pressure is released, and it reduces the possibility of a severe kickback. The third thing to check (and perhaps the foremost item) is the pinning of the hammer shank center, as well as the pinning of the repetition lever. The hammer shank center should produce an amount of friction that results in between 7 and 9 swings of the hammer when you suspend the shank in your hand by holding the hammer flange in your fingers and the hammer at horizontal and letting go. (I have a different video on hammer shank pinning in my channel. You should check it out.). The repetition lever, on the other hand, should have between 5 and 7 grams of friction. This enables the wippen to support the hammer shank when depressing the key, as well as to prevent "submarining" of the hammer shank knuckle once the note is struck and the hammer rebounds. A higher friction at the rep lever allows you to regulate the spring at a higher tension as well, giving you really fast repetition.
@@robertgrijalva7158 Actually it is a console piano
@@emilioooo9678 If you have a console (a type of shorter vertical upright piano), there is little you can do aside from providing a very good action regulation. The upright action is not a "double" escapement action. It does not possess either a repetition spring or repetition lever, two essential components found on grand piano actions. It means that in order to repeat a note, it is necessary to allow the key to return all the way to its original position before you can replay the note. In the grand piano action, it is necessary to only release a little finger pressure after the note is depressed in order to repeat a note. This is the genius of the "double" escapement action that was developed by Erard in the 1820's. The Erard design is the one used by virtually all piano manufactures today. Its defining feature is the butterfly or reciprocal repetition spring that when regulated adjusts the tension for both the repetition lever and the jack in proportional measure.
@@robertgrijalva7158 Oh wow I didnt know that, Im asking all these questions because Im 18 and I want to become a piano technician, I have another question so I have been learning about tuning and I think Im ready for tuning a piano but what I dont understand at all is pitch raise, Could you explain to me how to understand pitch raises and how are they performed on a piano?
@@emilioooo9678 What you are asking for is a tutorial that would not be doable in this context. You need to work one-on-one with a qualified piano technician willing to act as your mentor. I can't explain tuning to you through these little discourses on UA-cam. I'm sorry to disappoint you.
Damn, this is insanely educational. I just bought a used piano off craigslist and want to renew it myself. This was a great, id-depth crash course in how piano action works. Cheers!
Thank you for your comment. I have tried to be as clear as possible for the students in my classes. I appreciate your feedback. RG
What is the purpose of the let off? The one part I don't understand.
Let off adjusts the power of the hammer. If the hammer lets off too soon you lose power to the string and can affect the tone and voice you are getting. Too close let off and the hammer will block onto the string. Think of it like throwing a ball, you don't want to release the ball early or you lose power, you want to release it at the very end of your pitch.
@@tomrotelli1355 Excellent explanation. Thanks!
Wonderful video. This musician turned engineer enjoyed it very much and learned a lot. (BFA Music Performance and BSEE) .
Thank you. I really appreciate when an engineer takes a look and validates what I’ve got. I really appreciate it.
thanks...worked out great. Not sure why the RPT's scare people from doing this; although, it does take skill
Many thanks teacher.
Thank you very much the best online teacher.
Wow there sure is a plethora of useful information here for an aspiring piano tech.
Thanks! Great Video. I sneezed all the way through it just watching that felt dust!
Usually, I wear a dust mask, and I do highly recommend that. I wasn't wearing one for this video because I was talking for the camera. But a mask is important because wool fibers can cause respiratory distress. I am allergic to wool, so it goes without saying that I use a dust mask. My hands still suffer from cracked skin, though.
Exactly what I was looking for....I am an engineer....so have to know how it works !!
I looked for the longest video about piano action hoping it would cover all the technical details and boy did you deliver. This is tremendous!
The section I needed was explanation of "roller" (or knuckle) and the two screws for "stopping" repetition and jack, therefore called double escapement, and enabling hammering the string again even if the key is not back to rest; it is at 14:00 Thank you for this comment - it's in the middle of the night and I doubted if I should use 15 min. or sleep to be fresh tomorrow! :) <3
Hello Robert, thanks for your video. I am looking for information which I cannot find in any books or videos I have been watching, so I'm seeking your advice please. I am rebuilding a 6' Bechstein Grand. I had a company replace all the hammers and glued new shanks. Now that these hammer/shank assembly have been reinstalled, I need to check the travel of each hammer to the strings. Before doing this, should the hammers be vertical to the strng, then set the travel or is it more important to make sure that the hammers strike the string at 90 degrees? I have set the hammer AO vertical, but when lifting to the string, there is side travel. Before setting this hammer vertically, there was less side travel. This confuses me. Where do I start...? Thanks for your help
I travel hammer shanks before I glue on the hammers, but I understand that you had new hammers and shanks sent to you pre-assembled. In the case that I received hammers and shanks pre-assembled, I install them on the action frame and travel them right away. After traveling, I check for hammers that aren't vertical and use a heat gun (or alcohol lamp) to "burn" the offenders vertical again. This is an important step before filing, because if a hammer or hammers aren't perfectly vertical before you begin filing, then you're going to get a skewed strike surface. When it comes to hammers that are angled, I file them one at a time with narrow strips of sandpaper. I didn't show this in this particular video because it was only a casual video demo intended for my sister-in-law. The process is much the same during single hammer filing. Somewhere in my videos I have on on traveling.
Thanks Robert, much appreciated
What is the standard length of the key are they varies concert piano grand piano and baby grand piano?
The length of piano keys does vary. A nine-foot concert grand does have longer keys than a 5ft 1 inch piano. But, it would impossible for me to tell you how much this can vary. Different brands of piano have different measurements they work with. Grand piano keyboards are not perfectly rectangular, so bass notes have longer keys, as a general rule. But the same principles apply to big and little grand pianos. The key ratio of 2:1 would still be something to aim for, whether the keys are long or short. Also, the magic line and the power line would still be operating principles. In upright pianos, though, all the keys are the same length. They tend to be that way because upright piano keys are generally designed in symmetry with the case. It would look kind of odd if the bass side of the case the were to poke out further than the treble side. But, I'm no expert on upright piano geometry. My work is 99.9% Steinway grand pianos. I am admittedly ignorant to most upright piano action theory.
It's a butcher job without meat.
??? I don't really understand your comment. As I mention in my introduction to these videos, they are just casual snippets of some of my processes. I hope you enjoy them in that spirit.
Why so complicated? what all the intermediate levers? couldn't you rest the hammer roller directly on the capstan, to create an up/down motion more directly?
If you do so, you won't be able to sustain a note. The hammer will keep touching the string until you release the key, stopping the string from vibrating.
That was incredibly insightful. You're a great teacher!
Thanks. I try to be as clear as possible. Your comment is gratifying! RG
This is fantastic. An extremely lucid and thorough explanation of the mechanism.
Thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed it. I know that my production values aren't the highest (a towel in my basement as a back drop), but hopefully I made it up in the content of the video!