Відео

@@possumverde I agree but I can also see the appeal of the idea. Also, I really like that feeling that there are things we cannot affect. Like in Torment. Like Myrkul said, justice does not drive the planes.

@@LandBark Wait, what? What did BG3 lacked that NWN2 had aside from the PWs? Although BG3 does feel butchered and rushed in Act III.

@@Bottomless_Inventory =Spoiler Alert= I in general have two main gripes, first is the lack of love for short races (NWN2 had two in the team while bg3 had none and a lot of possible antagonists from them) and second is the entire ending. During the last fight in NWN2 we have our whole team to combat the last boss with (minus few that left thanks to low affection or game being game) while BG3 with so many "memorable" "companions" reduced it to only 3 other than main created character (and we had to choose them very early pre ending). Ending of BG3 really put NWN2 into a new light.

@@LandBark Well, I don't care much for the short races. As for the final fight, I guess it would have made sense, especially since it's a turn-based game. Other than that, the ending of BG3 did feel kinda lame, I'll give you that. Generally, the whole final boss and its plot felt kinda meh to me. And then, everything was so rushed that there was little Baldur's Gate in Baldur's Gate 3. Other than that, it was an amazing game. We'll wait years for another one like that.

Yeah, game one in a generation for sure! As for short races, it is more about creating balanced in races and classes accessible team (not counting the hirelings, they are quite bad on their own).

I hear Kingdom Come 2 is pretty cool but it's a different sort of game. Still, I'm waiting until GOG releases the game DRM-free this Spring. And then again, I don't buy games on launch. Too buggy and optimized in the vast majority of cases.

@@Rychlewicz That's a pretty good idea. Me? I'd like for the play to be a soft retcon of the OC's horrible ending. Maybe bring some of the end slides to life, too.

@@Bottomless_Inventory Yes, it is a fun idea. Also... Gann and Kaji would be fun actors to work with.

@@Rychlewicz Yeah, I imagine Gann would refuse anyone to play him on account of being not handsome and charming enough. He even didn't like the Gann in Anya's dream.

@@Bottomless_Inventory To be fair, the play is only about OC so he would probably make his own version of old NPCs and change a lot around the story. Probably quoting some critique about the main game. I would actually prefer if both NWN1 and 2 were more connected to each other storywise so I imagine Gann making fun of people questioning Khelgar's desire because Grimgraw is known character in the history of the city. Oh and Kaji would be a great actor to play both possible romances for the main character. Casivir and Elanee. A small construct trying to act like a tough veteran or like a beautiful ageless elf.

@@Rychlewicz Elanee being beautiful is a bold claim. I remember back in the old days we would call her a horse on the forums. Her character model sure did her no favors. XD

Apparently everything that was even mildly interesting. Just kidding! I have no idea and I still haven't finished Storm of Zehir. I played it for a couple of hours some 15-ish years ago and that's about it. I bought it mainly because Persistent Worlds required it. I might try to give it a go some day and make a video but here are many other games that could use a retrospective, many of whom have pretty big anniversaries this year.

@@Bottomless_Inventory I know of two things. One; Quest in the small village on Nimbral was meant to be more complex mechanically and allowed to choose between more options. There is a mod on neverwintervault which unlocks it. And two, there is a Gnomish Lantan Teleporter which malfunctions and teleports the player party in the wrong place. What was cut was the cool idea that each playthrough can make player end up in different place helping the open world feeling.

Well, end slides are kind of lame but like the video says: if Obsidian tried to do better things, they would have to sacrifice others. Ammon Jerro's quest just shows what would have happened to many others if Obsidian overshot with the scope yet again. This is precisely what happened with the OC. I think the destruction of the Wall could have been the good/neutral ending that some Spirit-Eaters missed. While I think that Kaelyn's endings are on point if she is left to wage the war on her own, it would have been nice to be that Good/Neutral character who defies the gods and wants to see this injustice end. Though, to be honest, I equally love the idea of the Wall being untouchable. Like Myrkul said, justice does not drive the planes. MotB has such a spectacular take on him, even though it's nowhere near as flashy as that in Baldur's Gate 3. The voice acting and the writing is superb.

@Bottomless_Inventory Maybe justice doesn't move the plains, but I am sure as hell my 30 lvl Spirit-Eater can eat the Wall and the spirits inside it, which should probably end the Wall. Otherwise, I will ask one other dimensional hag/witch: "What can change the nature of the Wall?" God help whatever I shall unleash on the Realms with her answer. Joking, of course.

@daniilsilverstone9294 Eating the Wall is probably too much at level 30. Level 30 is still much less powerful than Kelemvor alone. Still, it maybe could work at some point... In the end slides. 😋

@@Bottomless_Inventory Fallout games (except those from Bethesda) are famed for their ending slides. Obsidian used MOTB ending slides experience to make much better FNV slides and they are still better than Kreia, from KOTOR2, talking what would happen after that game ends.

Well, end slides are an old technique, sure. They can be done okayish or bad. I'd say the OC was pretty bad. I heard a rumor somewhere that the voice actor was an accountant or something like that at Obsidian. I don't remember the source, though. Could be some of the forums. Anyway, MotB had decent end slides. It's just that they don't talk enough enough about the fate of the OC companions and what happened in the Vale of Merdelain.

@@TheMarosis Compared to what Ammon actually was? They sure were. I'd expect him to be about level 30, not to mention being boosted by 6 powerful fiends. I'm not saying that level 15 characters are peasants as such. It's all relative.

It's old and clunky but has its charm and the atmoshpere is spot on!

@@erarzemieslnikow3196 Ambitious projects are usually not completed. And then you'd be better off making content for NWN1EE if you care about people actually planning. I think at this point only BG2R can draw more players to NWN2 single player.

@@Bottomless_Inventory To be honest I just wanted to do it for myself just to prove something. And then show it to the rest of the people. It would be nice to create a mod which would many reconsider "a must have" but it is just naive thinking it would end up like this. Oh, and most important thing. At first you don't see how ambitious the project really can be.

I understand. Well, whenever I do something creative and get ambitious like that or have such high hopes, I remember what Bogusław Linda said on the matter: "You can't be an artist full-time. You only get to be an artist occasionally. And for a short while." And this is spot on, I think. I don't know if it's even possible to be constantly great. Unless you quit or die before you do anything worse than your best. :P Btw. The translation of the quote is obviously crude but I don't really have the time to give it a proper thought at the moment.

@@Bottomless_Inventory I don't think this quote makes me happier. XD

@@erarzemieslnikow3196 Happy to help! XD

@@erarzemieslnikow3196 Neeshka's quest and the imp thingy?

@@Bottomless_Inventory Oh, I forgot about those. I meant the crypt quests. Kids these days and their necromancy rituals and Fenthick Blasphemy, The second one I call the worst quest Obsidan ever wrote in my opinion because it ruins the point of the original NWN 1 campaign. Big shame because it's subject technically touches the topics from this campaign about corruption of the undead but when the ghost cannot speak or send a message it just leaves with a bad quest which kills a character written by another artist.

@erarzemieslnikow3196 Well, the crypt quest is kiiiinda connected. Arval was a KoS Shadow priest I think. And we can give his Journal to Nasher. Or the Journal entry says so at least. There is also the bard contest theoretically. Anyway, I don't get which quest is the other one you meant. Care to clarify?

@ I mentioned the Tomb of the Betrayer quest and the quest with teenagers hiding in the cementary in the Blacklake district.

@@erarzemieslnikow3196 Oh, right. Still, you were stretching the truth a little there.

What graveyard? If you mean the convo over corpses, I meant bleeding corpses of Raines and his friends. She does the same thing with other thugs. Or when she casually says that she backstabbed some people.

We'll never know for sure. However, I just don't think how anyone looked at that ending and thought it would be good for anyone. I mean, if they wanted to encourage people to buy the expansion this way, then it's no wonder Obsidian struggled to stay in business for years. Pen&paper DnD is another thing entirely. You hang out with friends, it's just another kind of experience. Then imagine putting in 30 hours or so into a single player adventure and you get this shit. As far as I recall, I didn't mind the ending and wanted to see what happened next. But then they slapped me in the face again with the low-effort shit of a closure MotB provided for the OC. You know, sometimes I can't help but feel that MotB was a standalone adventure initially and, like you said, somebody said that a connection has to be made, and it had to happen quickly. Still, I just don't have any proof of that. I do know for a fact that MotB was already in early development months before NWN2 launched. So the timeline would add up but that's it.

@@RustyShackleford-wu9mz It's just game balance, just like with Ammon and Amie. Or like with life restoration. I mean, we theoretically should have been able to raise Shandra or any other NPC. But story is detached from gameplay arbitrarily in pretty much all games.

The question is whether or not she was to die mid-game anyway. If so, the whole cleric subplot would make little sense anyway. Although, when you think about it, you should just raise dead or resurrect her. But most games are stupid like that: plot death is different than gameplay death. I sort of wish they explained that further. Black Garius says he can resurrect her, and he probably means things like Wish or Miracle or True Resurrection, but really, it should have been obvious to someone like Ammon Jerro. UNLESS Shandra had to somehow damn herself to save the party. I mean, Mephasm says that what she did was "brave but foolish". But I guess we'll never know and I don't think Obsidian even thought of that.

@@Bottomless_Inventory Maybe you right, but allowing Shandra to become a Cleric and later on Recruiting Zhjaeve (once Shandra is dead), makes much more sense for me now. This way party have Cleric not at the very end of the game, but much earlier. And once Shandra is dead, we still have a replacement and our frustration (of loosing one) would not be that great. As for Garius' offer to resurrect Shandra, I always thought as he meant to make her a shadow. That is why Ammon replied the way he did, and even promised to make Garius suffer for that (or something like this, dont remember his exact words).

@Kipa2 He said that because Garius even dared utter her name. I do think they could do either. Wish, Miracle, or True Resurrection surely was no big deal for Garius. Besides, KoS does pretty much mass raise dead at will in the evil ending and corrupts the companions into servitude.

Well, it's proof Obsidian is terrible at making design decisions. Including what to cut and what to keep. First, they overscope it, then they make a bad situation even worse but cutting the wrong stuff.

Not going to happen but it's good to have dreams, I guess. I don't think we're getting ANY Forgotten Realms cRPG anytime soon, let alone anywhere near the quality level of Baldur's Gate 3.

What women? If you mean those that falsely accused Avellone, they were not part of Obsidian or any other game development studio. Avellone's beef with Obsidian was more about management stuff IIRC. As for redeeming themselves, I don't think they have any greatness left in them. I mean, at least several good developers have left the studio over the years. Mask of the Betrayer was arguably the best game they've ever produced followed by Tyranny. Lots of people liked Pillars of Eternity, too, although I think it was a bit like Baldur's Gate. Not that good but it launched exactly when the genre needed something different. The failure of Deadfire proves that the classic cRPG itch had already been scratched and people don't want to play such games anymore. Anyway, I will be replaying Pillars of Eternity soon most likely and producing some content so we'll see how it holds up after a decade. And I reeeaaaaally need a break from Neverwinter Nights 2 and its files. XD

@@Bottomless_Inventory The women who are working in Obsidian at the moment I mean.

@Kipa2 Like who? Is there any drama I' not aware of? I mean, I'm assuming this isn't simply sexism. I'm not a DEI fan but I also want to be fair and give credit when it's due.

@@Bottomless_Inventory well, it is simply sexism, what a surprise.

What a surprise that the guy with a wolf avatar is an anti woke shit head AND a misogynist. Here's a fact for you: it's not DEI and blackrock ruining your precious video games. It's capitalism.

Honestly? I used to like Khelgar way back. When I played the OC today I thought he was a retard. Fight this, fight that. He had no depth like, say, Wrex or Grunt even in the Mass Effect series. Or Oghren from Dragon Age: Origins. He was just about fighting. No brains whatsoever. But then again, it's my opinion and, as you can see, it's changed overtime.

@@TalinSilverbane Honestly, don't hold your breath. Enhanced Edition simply won't happen. 😟

@@Bottomless_Inventory I can dream damnit.

Just don't let your dreams become delusions and you'll be fine!

Thanks, I'm trying my best. There's a lot of work ahead of me if I want this channel to grow but comments like that really motivate me!

@@catoblepasomega I am going to revisit Baldur's Gate and several other games, too, so you can expect this kind of videos. Although I need a break from data mining and certainly from NWN2. 😅

Thank you! It means a lot. There's lots of work to do if I want to grow this channel but I hope it will happen eventually!

@@AArmstrongDotOrg At the moment, I think I'll do a short one on MotB. In the future, if I find more stuff, I'll do another part or an "enhanced edition" compilation. In general, I think NWN2 was supposed to be a fun take on the zero to hero cliche. It shows potential here and there but ultimately it's just that, and it's not enough.

@@LandBark I hear you. I loved NWN2 back in 2006 and replayed it several times in 2007. Now, after all these years, I don't find it anywhere as fun, contrary to MotB which I only seem to love more and more with age.

@@maxmach4361 Well, I didn't want to go all the way back. I preferred to suffer and eventually win. XD As for Zhajeve, I think she did have a place in the story. It's just that things were cut big time. There were more locations in the Ritual of Putification, like I mentioned in the first vid, and I also saw an Astral Plane concept art somewhere. Who knows.

I linked them in the description.

@Bottomless_Inventory btw I loved the content! I love nwn2 and I always felt that it was missing stuff loved to see the whole thing.

@@yoshi10000 Thanks! There is definitely more content coming on NWN2 some day and other cRPGs.

@@rordagreen Yeah, you're probably right. Still, it suffered a lot from those cuts. I think if the OC was truly finished, maybe more people would look past the clunkiness. Actually, MotB is a proof of that. Sadly, these cuts made the OC mostly mediocre with only faint traces of genius. It really needed another year or two in development to shine.

@@DebilniPoirot Well, Obsidian just totally overestimated their capabilities. At some point, they just had to push the unpolished content out the door. Khelgar, Neeshka, and Elanee were the most developed probably because they were created first. Sadly, they had to create so much, they didn't have the time to finish any of it. And so we got half assed companions that show incredible amounts of wasted potential. In my opininion, Obsidian cut too little and too late. But I guess we'll never know for sure what happened there as the original producer died in 2022 IIRC.

@@gabrielcaro I wouldn't hold my breath. I mean, these dialogues have been sitting in the game files for over 18 years. I thought I would just make more people aware of their existence. 🙂

@@lorcan_92 You mean the OldTube vibe or what by saying 2000s again? 😅

@@Bottomless_Inventory OldTube and the time most of the games you speak about were originaly released.

It's a valid point of view. I have a strange love-hate relationship with the game, too. I mean, the OC is painfully butchered and buggy and clunky despite 2,5 years of patching. But other than that, I have great memories of playing NWN2 online. And, of course, Mask of the Betrayer is the next best thing to Planescape: Torment. No contest here at the moment. ;-)

@@gabrielcaro Well, there are people who hated it. And it never replicated the success of the original. It is subjective to me and I don"t have a problem woth either view. I'm on the fence myself. Replaying the OC is painful at times.

@@Bottomless_Inventory there’s no shame in looking up guides. To use the words of the great Noah Gervais, it’s a game where you really just gotta get into the mood of it, try to take it seriously even if the game doesn’t always earn it.

@@Bottomless_Inventory thank you again for your cut content retrospective. Regardless of how you feel about the game, I’m sure you wouldn’t have made if you didn’t care. As this is my favorite game, I appreciate it a lot!

Meaning?

@@sarethuskami5082 It's all cooming soon! Although I do skip things that aren't that interesting in one way or another. Still, the next part will be focused on companions and there is quite a lot of cool stuff in it.

@@fatweeb1545 Yep. It's just too bad it suffered because it was an expansion pack.

@@icqme8586 Yeah, the game runs shitty even on modern hardware. Espescially so on persistent worlds with more elaborate level design. It was just poorly programmed from day one.

But that would contradict the lore. The Practical Incarnation was defeated by TTO IIRC.

@@Bottomless_Inventory Nothing would prevent involving TTO. I doubt the lore is so fleshed out that there's no room to tell a new story there.

@@DreamMarko Nope.

@@Bottomless_Inventory Sad.

@@DreamMarko Such is life. I thought NWN2 at least deserves some videos. 😉

@@Bottomless_Inventory it does it's still one of my favorite games out there, I replayed it many times. Last time I played with all the characters at the same time, but my PC was a swashbuckler!

For you and I, it is a classic. For the mainstream audience? I don't think so. You'll see lots of other titles before anyone mentions NWN2. Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Torment, Fallout, NWN1, Dragon Age, hell even games like Mass Effect (lovely games but not really RPGs). The good news is: there is even more cut content then I talked about here. It was just too much to pack it into one video, especially that I'm still digging. There will be more content on NWN2 for sure. As for the cut content restoration, I don't think it will ever happen. I'm pretty sure that Neverwinter Nights 2 Enhanced Edition can't happen because of, well, reasons. But that's the word around the internets. Maybe the source code is gone in addition to being shit? That was the case with Icewind Dale II. And besides, if Beamdog, or anyone for that matter, were to remaster NWN2, I'm pretty sure it would be just a bugfix, 4K support, integrating existing mods, and some other extra eye candy. That will be 60 bucks.

I'm looking forward to your next video to see that. Maybe some crazy dudes will do it someday, who know ?

@@Dayard I'm not that crazy yet but who knows. It's an insane world we live in. 😅

There's the two Pathfinder games from Owlcat. BG3 is also cool in that regard.

I loved Tyranny because of the setting and the fact that it's one of very few games that nails being evil. In most other games it's about being a deranged loony. As for party-based cRPGs, I think Baldur's Gate 3 is magnificent. Although... you can tell in Act 3 that they ran out of resources and it is BUTCHERED. Other than that, Wasteland 3 was also a very pleasant surprise to me! Unless you mean real-time with active pause. I, for one, learned to appreciate and love good turn-based combat. Like in D:OS, W3, or BG3.

I know, right? I mean, I see traces of things that are removed altogether. Like entire modules. This is crazy!

pretty much the dark souls 2 of dungeons and dragons lol both horribly butchered and just haphazardly put togheter trying to fit things togheter

I'd say it's just bad management. It's not lack of experience, it's just bad management. They weren't rookies even whey they founded Obsidian. They just overshoot with scope and then it turns out they don't have the time and resources to finish and polish their product. How they've managed to get away with that for over 20 years... Well, I suppose they tell good stories. But the amount of potential they've wasted is astonishing. Mask of the Betrayer is arguably the only game they did the way they should have done all games: smaller scope but with great writing. A great story doesn't have to be long.

@@CrystalTikal I doubt it. Recreate? Maybe. Will some do it? Doubtful.

@@ArhonOkvals Ammon is great as it is but he surely had even more potential. He is such a badass and yet tragic character. And thanks for the kind words! There is definitely more content like this coming in the future!

@Bottomless_Inventory Yeah the Jerro's Remorse section on Shandra's farm is amazing and still sticks in my mind after all this time. Ammon deserves his own video one day.

Not sure about his own video, but I could definitely include him in some video about ambiguously evil characters or some such. Thanks for the idea! Anyway, I think Ammon's remorse at Shandra's farm was mostly fine. I think the best scene of his, the very best, is when he confronts Mephasm right after killing Shandra. You can hear regret right then and there. When Ammon yells "You lie!", you can hear the denial in his voice, even though he clearly realizes what he just did. This is certainly one of the best moments in the OC, and Murphy Guyer did a fantastic job voicing Ammon!

@@Bottomless_Inventory Yeah Murphy Guyer is a legend for his work with Ammon. If you can bring up Ammon in the future that would be great. He deserves the praise.

Some cuts might be more obvious to you when you replay the OC. And this video still doesn't cover 100% of what I dug up and likely there I things I haven't discovered yet. But I'm sure there will be a part II. Not sure how soon, though. Depends on how well this video does and how other things work out.