Відео

Thank you for pointing it out. This was brought to my attention in another comment as well. I agree that giving credit is important which is why I gave a reference under each of the visualizations and animations that I used in this overview. If you think I should do this in a better way, since I appreciate SimonDev's work and what I have learned from his videos, I'm open to suggestions.

⁠@@markitekta2766I would put a link to their video in the description too or as a pinned comment

Thank you for pointing this out. I agree that giving credit is an important part of creating a overview presentation which is why I gave credit in the video under each of the animations or visualizations as best as I could. However, if you believe I should do it in any other way, I am open to suggestions. As for the remark about all the animations, I think I used his great examples in the portion of the video regarding culling and optimization, from which I learned a lot, which is from around 19 minute mark to about 23 minute mark. This is not written as an excuse, just a way to get the facts straight. 😃

@@markitekta2766 I suppose the part I take issue with is that basically every graphic you show is just from someone else. And everything you say seems to just be paraphrased from the source material. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing when done in moderation, but it just seems like you do this to excess. even ignoring that, I feel like you could at least use the papers themselves as sources. You can also put citations in the description or compile them in a Google Doc and link to that in the description. That way people don't have to search up the video titles or go digging through the Blender Stack Exchange to find the original discussion that the GIFs were made for. Or if you made your own then you wouldn't have to deal with a mishmash of vastly different UI versions and bad resolutions. For example, at 5:01 you have a citation for the high-poly/low-poly GIF, but the article is not trivial to find. At the very least you should put the website it's from (Treehouse), and if you actually link to all your sources you eschew the whole issue entirely.

😂 I guess that's why art is subjective, his own interpretation was like this

I think so too, the more instances you have, the less items in the tree, but the connections can become more complex?

Thnx, appreciate it 😉

You might be on to something there... People do need a capable enough graphics card to process all of this, RTX can handle the job but it can get expensive. But maybe we don't need a supercomputer, if we have the RTX? 😆

@markitekta2766 i guess if you own at least 3080 and up then yes, 3060 and 4060 on the other hand not so much

@@roklaca3138 I like that you provided first hand experience, that helps out a lot. Yeah, expensive equipment can be limiting but even the "supercomputers" of half a century ago perform less than a smart phone, if I am not mistaken. The point is, in time, perhaps all of this will become affordable ;-)

I'm glad you found it interesting, I also find myself listening and learning about things I don't use generally in life. But everything connects in the end, I guess 😉

Thank you for pointing it out. Yeah, I noticed I got my facts wrong, so I pinned a comment with the correction. I appreciate you bringing this to the attention to the community here 😃

As Arthur C. Clarke said - Magic's just science that we don't understand yet. And we have more science to implement if we want to understand this magic 😂

Very much appreciated, I tried to find simple examples but most of all, putting them into a coherent narrative that people can track and engage with. Thnx 😉

You noticed that right and it frustrated the hell out of me too, since the presentation and the recording of me was recorded together, so I couldn't edit it out later. You can see that there is a place at the bottom where I placed my camera feed, but for some reason, the program moved it up there 😒 Sorry for the mistake

@markitekta2766 yes I noticed the big gray rectangle in the bottom right 😩 thought there's a perfect spot for the camera feed, why not put it there? 😂

When I started the recording, I placed my camera feed there and the screen was recorded like that. However, when I finished recording, I noticed that the bottom right was blocked like that and the camera feed was glue to the upper right corner so I had a double fail :/ I guess I'll have better luck next time, but I agree, it is annoying. In the previous video, I placed the camera feed in the bottom right and then overlapped with text from the image, so I had to manually place text over it, but you don't know what you don't know and hence you learn by doing, I guess 😂

@markitekta2766 I see. Well I don't know which software you use, but with obs for example you get separate files for the recordings 😊

@@nowonmetube Great suggestion, I'll be sure to check it out and improve upon this, much appreciated for drawing my attention to this 😃😃

I'm glad you found value in it. In trying to prepare the lecture I sometimes spent many hours on a single slide, trying to understand all the nuances that are behind it and verify it from several sources. But hearing that other people can follow my train of though really makes it worth while 😃 Thank you

Thank you for sharing the info, this is really useful. I saw the feature - preserve area that should help with that. Also, Nanite has evolved allowing for tessellation now, even though it was not possible back in 2021. So, yeah, I guess they will handle these things as well. Can you share some snippets of the performance when using Nanite on trees?

Someone asked the same thing and I said, he would probably ask for people to do photogrammetry and digitize what he knows to do best 😀

You are welcome, I'm glad you found it useful :D

Now there's a challenge 😂 maybe serially connected potatoes

Yeah, sometimes the things that we think would be useless, seem to help us gain an interesting understanding of our surroundings later on ;-)

😂 I sighed a lot, actually, because there is so much to say at appropriate times, but I edited it out, thnx for bringing my attention to it :D

Thank you for providing feedback. Yeah, I came back to the lecture every once and a while, hoping that 1x speed and really committed listening would help me understand. But I was lacking the terminology and the experiences I found later on. However, still I can watch the lecture and not get everything, so many nuances. For the software rasterizer on the GPU instead on the CPU, it seems I got my facts wrong about them, or I implied to myself that if this was hardware, software goes here, bassed on prior information that software is tied to CPU. Taking you very much for pointing it out, much appreciated.

Thank you very much, I appreciate the support ;-)

@markitekta2766 no problem. I am learning a lot from your videos

Sure is, kinda like not knowing what happens under the hood of a car, yet it still goes if you know how to use it :D

If I understood correctly, you are looking for specific numbers before and after using, that is a good suggestions, I'll try to post something soon enough ;-)

@@markitekta2766 Ну, возможно можно не большой проект попробовать использовать. Просто я делаю свою игру, и тут трудный выбор как поступать. Использовать наниты или ЛОД. Если геометрия простая и плоская, то ее как будто нет смысла переводить в наниты. А вот фольяж как показала практика сделать нанитами стоит, это дает хороший буст производительности. В общем хочу сказать, что непонятно как делать правильно, надо столько всего учесть, без примеров иногда это просто по интуиции :)

@@markitekta2766 Ну, возможно можно не большой проект попробовать использовать. Просто я делаю свою игру, и тут трудный выбор как поступать. Использовать наниты или ЛОД. Если геометрия простая и плоская, то ее как будто нет смысла переводить. А вот фольяж как показала практика сделать нанитами стоит, это дает хороший буст производительности. В общем хочу сказать, что непонятно как делать правильно, надо столько всего учесть, без примеров иногда это просто по интуиции.

I agree, threat interactive seems to have stirred the pot with this Nanite application issue and bringing everyone to discuss it is definitely a win, regardless of what the outcome is

Do you mean AI used for upscaling or for something else?

@markitekta2766 nope AI for the whole thing through and through.

If you mean for the entire video I made, I can tell you more about it, but I guess you already have an opinion that requires no rebuttal 😉

Thank you for the support. The next logical one would be about lighting, but it will definitely take some time to explore and prepare. Until then, maybe you can check out the video about virtual texturing, which was basically the concept behind virutal geometry, like Nanite, or about optimizing the pipeline?

Looking forward to seeing it in action. I've never used voxelized assets, apart from using it in parametric modeling for 3D printing, but I did not research the use of materials when it comes to voxelized geometry, is it really that much of an issue?

Thank you very much, I'm glad you found it insightful, even as someone who, as you said, is not an UE user. I think you can set the numbers for the error and based on that the clusters will form, but I believe they always strive for those 128 triangles following the logic of 128 pixels for virtual textures, which in this case is where Nanite wants triangles to be the size of pixels, I guess

Hard to tell. I am a 3d artist not a game dev. What you try to do automatically, I just do by hand.

@@wydua Thanks for sharing your insights. As they say - good things take time, so if manual labor and adjustment with tedious tweaking is what gets great performance down the line then it is worth it, right 🙂

@@markitekta2766Yeah. It's honestly really bugging me off that in modern days the games are just made as fast as possible because it's cheaper. It seems they forgot that you can't rush art.

@@wydua Yeah, we live in times where everything is needed as soon as possible, but when you take your time, you can produce something wonderful :D

@@markitekta2766 :D

I just found the video to prove a point for what I was saying, but I'd like to see if anyone can offer more information about this

you could use merge by distance to generate the lods and switch node to change lods at certain distances, checking with your camera(self camera object) in geo nodes someone could probably do it with less manual work 😅

Yeah, I saw that CLOD - continuous level of detail uses edge collapse to generate less vertices as you move away, but it seems to cause issues as well i.e. does not solve all the problems

I think there was a talk, perhaps about Lumen, when they said that since one pixel can only display one triangle, the exploration of subpixel triangles is not the way to go. But I agree that if you take the time to optimize your scene with manual work and not automated approaches, you can gain more than letting the system handle it for you ;-)

@@markitekta2766 Also because PCs today are a lot more faster and you can get away with overdrawing most of the time. People should work on mid-poly nowdays and work on a global GI with PBR and you will see 100% resolution rendering with some multisampled anti aliasing in a crystal clear picture on your screen. Instead let's put boxes with billions of triangles just because.. let's lower resolution because somehow my game runs at 2 fps and upscale the frame with AI and "fix" all the artifacts with some vaseline, i meant TAA (which is also a cancer on performance.. > 1 ms is still a lot, you know how many things you can do with that infinite amount of time?.

(rethorical question, you seem to understand this pretty well brother)

@@AvalancheGameArt Valid points, thank you for putting it out there ;-)

:DD I guess that would have gotten even more comments here, some would say why not, others would go for - beacause of realistic depictions, while some would say we don't, we can use less performance heavy approaches. The diversity in optinions based on reason and fact is always welcome to prosper the development :D

Yeah, the scene really lights up due to overdraw when you use Nanite on aggregate geometry such as leaves. Imposters are also an interesting approach, as was seen in this video on 2:10 ua-cam.com/video/hf27qsQPRLQ/v-deo.html Also, they talk about leaves in this video on 13:04 ua-cam.com/video/eoxYceDfKEM/v-deo.html maybe you can find some suggestions there?

@@markitekta2766 Oh! I was doing a bit of trolling! Definitely would just go the regular industry way to go about it hahah Thanks for the extra videos, super interesting stuff! Keep up your awesome work :D

@@Cless_Aurion Oh, sorry, it went over my head. But yeah, as people have said here, Nanite is just a tool, so if something ain't broke, don't fix it, especially with this tool :D

I made it to be seen and used for learning in classes so the editing is not as it could be, with all the bullet points taking up a huge portion of the screen. I read the comment and hopefully other people will as well :D

Thank you, that means a lot, I was looking for a way to make something that was complex to me, simple and relatable, glad it came through 🙂

Thank you for sharing, I was not aware of that. When I saw the Nanite video 3-4 years ago, I had no idea how it worked or why. I think I have a better understanding now, but not about its use in practice. If anyone has any examples, it would bring a new note to the discussion section, perhaps?

​sadly, nanite isn't faster than using basic lods, but was promoted in many epic's videos as is. it produces overdraw that's wastes gpu computational resources.@markitekta2766

Thanks for sharing, I really appreciate your opinion. As a friendly suggestion, perhaps you shouldn't take other people's opinions as something that should be corrected or heavily debated. They have a different perspective on the topic which helps all of use broaden our horizons. We can only show which paths we think are correct, it amongst many, chose the ones to take. Hopefully they all reach the same place in the end. Having such a great comment section on this really brings a smile on my face as I see so many perspective I never though off, like the one you are making ;-)

Thank you for pointing it out and sharing your opinion :D I just needed an example for the intro and I believe that any example would have sufficed. I found this more relateable to me and the audience I thought I have, but if you have some examples of ancient sculptures, please share them, I'd like to learn more about it :D

They're big, yea. But that's about all we can see. They're so damaged from time that any detail they could've had is gone. Ancient greek statues have stayed in much better condition and so are more appealing for most people

@@liquos I can actually explain that. So on the GPU you aren't required to use a full pixel shader and the GPU has a fast path for depth assuming you don't do anything funky with the pixels. (Like discarding them or manually setting depth). It's usually referred to as Early Z. Because of this, much less state gets changed, if any at all. The actual drawing to a framebuffer is extremely fast.

It's shading, blending, post-processing, texturing, GPU state changes. All of those eat up performance. A depth pre pass does none of those. It is only for opaque geometry, alternatively geometry that has transparency enabled for say grass billboards. (But this actually oftentimes permanently disables early Z optimization until the buffers get swapped, so you would do this in a separate pass afterwards as it's less efficient.)

If I understood correctly, you need a certain amount of time to create the Z buffer and a certain amount of cache memory for it. If you wait for the GPU to create the Z buffer you are creating overhead, meaning there is idle time between the CPU and the GPU. So, in order to solve this, we take the previous frames Z Buffer and use that to test all the bounding volumes of the meshes that were determined to be the occluders. Since the occlusion query about what is an occluder can take a lot of time, if you test everything, this cuts down on that portion. When you take the previous frame's Z buffer, but at a lower resolution and the current bounding volumes and compare it, you can create a rough estimate of the current frame's Z buffer and then just check the new meshes or the meshes that became visible in the current frame, and test their bounding boxes for occlusion. There is a short text here, medium.com/@mil_kru/two-pass-occlusion-culling-4100edcad501 and here www.nickdarnell.com/hierarchical-z-buffer-occlusion-culling/ I think I got a good understanding of it, but would like if someone can clarify or correct me if I am wrong. :D Sorry for the longer post

@@donovan6320 thank you very much for the explanation guys, very insightful

That is a great observation. There is a book called - Flatland: A Romance of Many Dimensions by the English schoolmaster Edwin Abbott Abbott who explores this very notion of lower dimensional creatures being visited by a higher dimensional creature. It is understandable and relateable, because it is a square getting to know a sphere. You can read about it or watch a short video on UA-cam regarding this topic, kinda puts everyting into a different scope of thinking.

Thank you, I really tried to explain it to myself, and I'm very picky about all the nuances... At least up to a certain point :D

Number of RT cores is hardly the problem.

That is an interesting observation. Currently we have, if I'm not mistaken, over 10 000 cores in a GPU chip, each with a capability of running 3 billion operations every second. But still, if the pipeline is not optimized, a simple scene can cause latency or display issues. I always return to the quote of Jeff Goldblum from Jurrasic Park saying Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.

@@markitekta2766 I mean, for large scene (10+ billion triangles) raytracing with 100 million rays should be much faster than entire scene rasterization.

@@DefleMask I can see logic in this, but I guess in the end we still have to rasterize it for display purposes, so perhaps they are trying to kill to birds with one stone, even though it can be slow at times?

Thanks for sharing, I did not know about that. I found this post that says that in 1999 the first so called GPU turned out, but it existed as far as 1994, but did it really do what GPUs do today. www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/esqdkw/really_in_1999_nvidia_invents_the_gpu/ Whatever the case may be, I'm sure we can agree that it has been around 25-30 years since the GPU emerged, which is what can be the main takeaway from this?

@markitekta2766 yeah, indeed, it was only that isn't the first time i've seen UA-camrs say what Nvidia propagates, and it's not accurate and only serves to make them some sort of "the GPU company" when they aren't. Before Nvidia, in the 90's there where the 3DFX branded cards, Nvidia bought 3DFX when they GPU surpassed 3DFX's and it's so that started their fortune, as far as I know, the truly innovation of NvIdia where the programable shaders in the form of he CG shaders, that became the basis for the DirectX shader language HLSL, hence why they look so similar.

@@Biel7318 Hey, no worries, sir, thank you for sharing. I have no horse in this race, so what ever piece of information you have, it is nice to alert the people and learn about it. For example, I heard about the existence of SPUs, didn't know they were a thing, so you learn something every day. Here is a link if anyone is interested ua-cam.com/video/CHYxjpYep_M/v-deo.html

Do you mean "what" like, I did not know this or "what" as in what are you talking about, this is false :D I have a 4TB external hard drive for storing things, I since they are the cheapest and the slowest to tranfer data, they can pack a really punch when it comes to capacity :D

@@cube2fox because occlusion culling is hard and it's not perfect. The hidden surface determination problem is a bit of a rough problem to solve.

If my understanding is correct, when you get significantly far from the overlapping geometry, the distance between the triangles or clusters becomes so close that it can be like an artifact that can occur when two triangle are overlapping in any general setting during modeling. Non the less, I'd like to hear other opinions regarding this question :D

​@@markitekta2766 this seems like the best way of explaining it; you cram enough triangles in the scene you can either select relaxed culling and have significant overdraw or strict culling and have artefacting as triangles are removed to save time but there are so *many* triangles you eventually delete important ones through the culling Nanite makes sense on white paper to sell GPUs but ultimately is just a nerf overall.

@@ThePlayerOfGames Got it, thank you making it clearer :D

Thank you for watching, I'm glad you found value in it :D