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Retro Drive-thru
Romania
Приєднався 7 лип 2022
I post videos about old computers (trying to keep it under 2006) and consoles.
You will find here review videos about old hardware and key points(I hope) in the evolution of hardware like the transition from 2D to 3D.
My focus is the AGP period but I will include many other retro parts and even newer hardware like the early PCI-express cards and motherboards.
You will find here review videos about old hardware and key points(I hope) in the evolution of hardware like the transition from 2D to 3D.
My focus is the AGP period but I will include many other retro parts and even newer hardware like the early PCI-express cards and motherboards.
First generation Pentium 4 vs Pentium III-S
We are looking at one of the first Pentium 4s, the 1400Mhz from 2000.
We couple it with a MSI MS-6339, AGP Pro - RDRAM combo.
The graphics card used for this project is the GeForce 2 GTS.
We're aiming to see how does the Pentium 4 compare with the previous generation of CPUs.
Is it able to overpower a Pentium III-S running at 1400Mhz? Or a Tualatin Celeron running at 1400Mhz?
Contents:
00:00 - Intro
00:08 - The parts
03:33 - Assembly
05:18 - P4 Information
06:19 - Hijacking the Retro Blue Build
06:43 - P4 vs P3 vs Celeron (1400 Battle)
08:06 - Games
10:48 - Introducing the Pentium 4 1700Mhz
11:08 - P4 vs P3 vs Celeron
11:52 - Introducing the Pentium 4 1900Mhz
12:49 - Graphics card bottleneck, possible solutions
13:20 - Redoing the tests and issues during the making of the clip
14:08 - Conclusions
15:41 - Games
We couple it with a MSI MS-6339, AGP Pro - RDRAM combo.
The graphics card used for this project is the GeForce 2 GTS.
We're aiming to see how does the Pentium 4 compare with the previous generation of CPUs.
Is it able to overpower a Pentium III-S running at 1400Mhz? Or a Tualatin Celeron running at 1400Mhz?
Contents:
00:00 - Intro
00:08 - The parts
03:33 - Assembly
05:18 - P4 Information
06:19 - Hijacking the Retro Blue Build
06:43 - P4 vs P3 vs Celeron (1400 Battle)
08:06 - Games
10:48 - Introducing the Pentium 4 1700Mhz
11:08 - P4 vs P3 vs Celeron
11:52 - Introducing the Pentium 4 1900Mhz
12:49 - Graphics card bottleneck, possible solutions
13:20 - Redoing the tests and issues during the making of the clip
14:08 - Conclusions
15:41 - Games
Переглядів: 36
Відео
Building a Windows 98 PC with Pentium III-S 1400Mhz and Radeon 8500
Переглядів 10 тис.4 місяці тому
I'm taking a little break from the 'big projects' and I am building myself a retro PC for playing Windows 98 games. As I originally got this PC over a year ago from a friend I decided to look into it and continue his plan of only using blue components. Contents: 00:00 - Intro 00:27 - The parts 05:27 - Restoring the fan and radiator 06:09 - Assembly 08:18 - Powering on the system 08:38 - BIOS 09...
Exploring the early PCI-E cards on Windows 98
Переглядів 15 тис.4 місяці тому
We are looking at one of ASRock oddities from the mid 2000. A socket 478 that supports PCI-Ex. What better use we have for it than checking Windows 98's compatibility with PCI Express graphics cards? Contents: 00:00 - Intro 00:09 - The parts 05:27 - Assembly 06:20 - BIOS 07:01 - The Drivers 10:04 - Graphics benchmarks 10:46 - Game benchmarks 11:30 - Gaming on the x850XT 15:51 - x300SE Informati...
Crossfire on socket 939 is not for the faint of heart
Переглядів 10 тис.6 місяців тому
We are looking at one of the early solution for building an ATI Radeon Crossfire. The components used in this clip are: DFI LanParty RDX 200, AMD Opteron 185, Gecube x1950 Pro, HIS x1950 XTX, Western Digital 150Gb Velociraptor. Contents: 00:00 - Intro 00:11 - The parts 03:24 - Assembly 04:39 - Hardware Issues 06:54 - The Drivers 10:27 - The competitor 11:25 - Raid 0 12:23 - Information 13:15 - ...
Benchmarking the 'VIAGRA' motherboard
Переглядів 3,4 тис.Рік тому
We are investigating the PCCHIPS M585LMR 'VIAGRA' Motherboard with a Cyrix 6x68 P150 (MMX-less) CPU. Contents: 00:00 - Intro 00:08 - The motherboard 01:16 - The IBM 6x86 P150 CPU 02:00 - Assembly 03:21 - The BIOS 04:07 - CPU-Z 05:02 - Sandra 99 07:20 - Super PI 07:39 - Final Reality 08:11 - 3DMark 99 Max 08:25 - Test Drive 4 (1997) 08:53 - Need for Speed 2 (1997) 09:28 - Quake 2 (1997) 09:45 - ...
PCI-E vs AGP vs PCI
Переглядів 6 тис.Рік тому
We are comparing the 3 type of graphics cards available in the early 2000. The components used in this clip are: AsRock AliveDual e-SATA2, Athlon X2 5600 , Generic 512Mb module DDR2, Asus 6200 PCI-ex, Palit 6200 AGP, Zotac 6200 PCI, XFX 6200 AGP, Western Digital 250Gb, Corsair 750W PSU. The Second Sidequest puts AGP agains PCI-ex and looks at the Gainward's 7900GS and the Sapphire HD3850. Conte...
Every Need For Speed dashboard camera and the Sense of Speed in the series
Переглядів 398Рік тому
We are looking the games in the Need for Speed series to see how the dashboard of the car has evolved (or disappeared) over the years. I will be re-building 4 of my previous PCs for this task. WARNING: PHOTOSENSITIVITY/EPILEPSY SEIZURES Contents: 00:00 - Intro 00:14 - The builds 01:02 - My 2002-2004 build 02:58 - Road and Track presents: The Need for Speed (1996) 03:44 - The Socket A ISA replac...
Need for Speed from 1 to Porsche on Voodoo2 SLI
Переглядів 8 тис.Рік тому
We're building a '99 PC in order to play the first 5 Need for Speed games and compare software mode with the 3dfx mode. The components used in this clip are: Asus K7M, AMD Slot A K7 550Mhz, Diamond Viper V550, Diamond Voodoo 2 8Mb, Quantum Fireball 10.2Gb, Creative AWE64 Gold (CT4390), Corsair 750W PSU, Unknown 64Mb SDRAM PC133 Memory module. Contents: 00:00 - Intro 00:16 - The components 03:58...
Upgrade from Windows 1 to Windows 11 on a Pentium 4
Переглядів 6 тис.Рік тому
Upgrade from Windows 1 to Windows 11 done on real hardware, following the 9x path. WARNING: PHOTOSENSITIVITY/EPILEPSY SEIZURES If you, or anyone in your family has an epileptic condition or has had seizures of any kind, this video may trigger a seizure. Some areas of the clip were speed up 80x(the Windows 11 installation period) and may alternate flashing bright lights known to induce condition...
Best Retro Operating System by comparison
Переглядів 661Рік тому
Best Retro Operating System by comparison
Windows 98 on unsupported hardware!?
Переглядів 8 тис.2 роки тому
Windows 98 on unsupported hardware!?
Great video! Enjoyed it As for the video card, I'd love to see a PowerVR Kyro II (Hercules 3D Prophet 4500 comes to mind) and test games on D3D with little to no TnL. Although, overall, GF2 is way better with OpenGL, Kyro II is scaling much nicer, you don't need 3rd party tools to access all settings, lower power consumption etc.
do a socket 478 with DDR ...... the replacement P4 socket..... i bought in the hype of teh P4 RDIMM. or RamBus..... it sucked.. i returned it with in a week... CPU MB and ram. and went for AMD Socket A or 754 / (or if it was later Socket 939/AM2 in 2006-07
Definitely GF4Ti4400. GeForce 3 is pretty much the same GPU but much slower and with DTX1 texture quality issue - which was actually making some DX7 and DX8 games to look pretty bad. There is little to no technical reason to use older GPU.
Sure, I was trying not to jump the horse and have something out of time with the other parts. The Gf4Ti also makes sense to me.
This is a cool build you usually DON'T see videos like this that often
Thank you! I do plan to build more colored PCs like a purple or a golden PC, but these are not a priority right now, maybe in the future.
That pc looks like engine
Great build! I've watched alot of builds on UA-cam, most do not bother to add exhaust fans, you added two, good for you, and they are blue too!! :)
Thank you, I got the system from a friend like this and I've used it for a while. I even modified it a bit for the upcoming video. I do plan to move it to an even blue-er case, and even get a pair a matching blue voodoo2s but I'm not sure that I will be able to get them soon enough.
Thank you, I got the system from a friend like this and I've used it for a while before deciding to present it. I started modifying it a bit for the upcoming video. I do plan to move it to an even blue-er case, and even get a pair a matching blue voodoo2s but I'm not sure that I will be able to get them soon enough.
I remember being envious of anyone who had DFI LanParty boards. I also think there was socket 940 for dual core CPUs? I always wanted a dual core CPU, but could only afford an Athlon 64 3000+, which still ran rings around my old 2.4GHz P4-based Celeron. Ran much cooler too.
I didn't see the light of DFI until I was already a man. But around 2016 when i bought my first 939 dfi they were cheap and available. Back in the day, probably around 2008, I had an Epox with a x2 4200 that served me for about 3 years. (I think 940 is the server variant for am2? Not sure though)
You’re stuttering is being caused by the games not loading the level data quickly.
Ok, so it's a hard drive? Or CPU issue? Or just a general game engine issue. Since the stuttering is not always present in all the games.
@@retrodrive-thru47 cache problems. You need a faster drive.
@@carlosnumbertwo Oddly this system is using a raid 0 of 2 velociraptors so I was kind of expecting the transfer speed to be there.
got a Socket 754 or socket 940 build/(s) ?? 940 was platfom socket before AMDs AM2 socket ??? I had 754 and AM2/2+ AM3 compatible CPUs MB Jetway/MSI and a ASUS AM3+ Sabertooth 990FX /Gen3 R2.0 ( mine had the PLX Pci-e Gen3 Bridge! i still didnt know it it actually worked in PCI-e Gen3 x16 or not ... lol
I do have some sk 754 motherboards and cpus including the mobile 4000+. I will create a clip someday. I thought that 940 was AM2.
That is a really good idea and I commend you for it. I have personally run a PCI to PCI-E adapter in a Socket 8 Pentium Pro with a GT710, Windows 2000 with drivers.
Just for fun and curiosity. I always wanted to push these computers to the max. It had a ssd too on the IDE to sata bridge which always feels super fast to me.
Wow, that's taking it to extreme :). Personally I also plan a look at a socket 8 but I would prefer a conventional approach. Any reccomandations for the OS? I kind of inclined towards NT4 but many people use win 2000.
@@retrodrive-thru47 The thing to consider with NT based OS is that they are extremely stable because of the Hardware Abstraction Layer or HAL. That is why the minimum CPU jumped from from 40 MHz to 233 MHz from Windows 95 to Windows XP (Vista was egregious at 600 MHz). It takes more CPU to run a HAL, the trade off is less blue screens. An ideal computer that used most of the CPU power you gave it would run Windows 95 with updated drivers and software but we won't get that until that OS becomes Open Source.You might look at 98 SE as I believe many drivers exist for it and it is still HALless. There was even a version of Crysis Maximum edition that said it supported 98 SE but no one ever tested it.
@@user-kv8wz7ml3o OK, I know about HAL but personally I don't find it taking away performance. If you have the patience for another clip on this channel, Best retro OS by comparison, using a p4 2.4ghz I've come to the conclusion that windows xp is faster using that cpu than windows 98 for most of the tests. So from a performance point of view the newer versions of windows are more efficient with the hardware. That video in itself may not very well made since it was the second I've done but to me was on of the hottest topics I could think of and I plan to follow it up with other CPUs and configurations as soon as I figure out why the AMD had the issues.
@@retrodrive-thru47Don't forget there is plenty of variation in Drivers as well. Oldest drivers for newer hardware often neglect older hardware. I think in specifics of the Graphic Cards. All I know is you can't run Windows XP on a i386.
At 1:04 my brain was like, oh look it has usb.3.0 connector the blue one.
I see what you mean. It was so subtle it took me 3 weeks to see it :)) Cheers!
You do NOT need both crossfire connectors. One of yours must be failing which is why it didn't work for you. I've run quad fire, tri fire, crossfire, etc for years. The extra cable is for 3 or 4 way setups only.
That's good to know, the article on anandtech also specified that both should be used on 2 cards and when 3 ore more cards were commected one connector was enough. But I suspect that one connector was faulty as it gave me some issues. Is there anything more to explore in 3/4 cards setup? Less stutters, more performance, anything else? I have 3 cards like the ones in this clip so I can try a tri fire ...at some point in the future.
While I think that motherboard is great at comparing PCIe and AGP video cards, it's not a good platform for PCI. PCI video cards will likely be bottlenecked at 32-bit @ 33MHz. You really should be testing PCI video cards in a PCI-X slot, to see their true potential.
Wow, that's really something I haven't considered. I can do this because I have a xeon motherboard with pci-x. It also has pci so I can test the difference. Do you think that the card will behave different? After all the card itself is made for 32bit @33mhz so putting it into a faster slot may not yield better results...but it's a fun test to do. The only constraint I had for this project regarding the PCIs was that no other pci device to be connected so they don't share the limited bandwidth of the southbridge.
A lot of the more recent PCI video cards are actually 32-bit @ 66MHz. If the card has two notches, they can be used in both 5v and 3.3v PCI slots. This is usually indicative of supporting PCI-X.
The XFX GeForce 6200 AGP was the version I had as a kid. Played crysis all the way through from start to finish on that thing with an Athlon XP 3200+. I cant say it was a good experience but it was certainly an experience.
P-III is MS-DOS, ISA, Windows 98, Voodoo cards and Creative EAX. Games up to year 2000. That Radeon is screaming for a better CPU.
I know the 8500 had support (drivers released) until 2006 and it really shined after they got stable. Stil the p3 1400 is no slouch, I'm currently comparing it to p4 and it easily outran the P4 1700. Don't worry the card will see a proper cpu when really benchmarked, for the purpose of this clip it was there because it was blue.
About those SATA ports: You can actually run them in native AHCI mode using Rloew’s AHCI9x driver
Thank you, I didn't know about that.
WoW what a job! 😮 these mothers are a treasure!! 🤤 I use the 939Dual-SATA2 and the 4CoreDual-SATA2 for similar comparisons, I recently got the GT610 PCI from Zotac but I have not yet found other cards to compare it with 😢
Thank you, I am planning a lot more comparisons between agp and pci ex cards in the future. It's hard to compare the Gt610 with anything else.
incredible work!! I can't imagine how many hours it would have taken you!!
Thank you, it took 3 months to complete the clip. 2 months to find the right versions, and just one full day (after many trials ans error) to do the upgrade. What you actually see in the clip took 6 hours of which 2h was the last upgrade to w11 and 1h and a half was the upgrade to w10.
@@retrodrive-thru47 Puff, only those who have recently tried to install these systems know the work and problems that their installation entails today...memory problems, incompatibility with drivers, etc.... my respects 😉
interesting videos and interesting conclusions… 🤔
I had the same reaction when someone tested the core2duo under similar circumstances. I always thought that it's the features/services of winxp and afterwards win7 that will hold them back. I never thought that the older Operating Systems had memory leaks or issues. I have repeated this procedure for many other systems since this clip, and as long as you don't use an Nvidia chipset the conclusions from this clip stand at least until a 1.6ghz cpu, 1gb ram and at least a geforce fx 5700.
I don't think your DOS results should really count, we're talking software rendering there, its being rendered on the CPU. The only thing to really look for there is if the GPU has compatibility with the resolutions used by DOS and DOS games.
Yes, you are right. I kind of left a gray area there only saying I tested it with the x300SE. It should be the same for every card in this clip. Like you said, rendering is done on the CPU so the graphics card only counts for the resolutions. Although this is not the average DOS cpu, there may be some people interested in the results. I recently got a p4 3.4Ghz so I'm planning to test another motherboard with a PCIE connector with some other graphics cards.
I have a bunch of Pentium III-S 1400Mhz stored in a box , but I can't find a compatible motherboard even on Ebay , how did you manage to get your motherboard ?
This one I got as a whole system from a local website in my country. Some of these are still around.
You think windows 98se would be able to cope with a gtx 4090??
Yes, it should. The 4090 is just a PCIE graphics adapter after all. It will not have any driver though.
@@retrodrive-thru47 there is a 32 bit driver suite.. perhaps someone has downloaded the first driver In the series and manually install them.. perhaps someone has hacked the drivers to work lol.
love the colorful yellow and orange!
I love it too. One of the best looking systems I had on this channel.
some of the best hardware you have there for testing agp
Thank you, I hope to use it further in the future and compare it to the Asrock 4coredual.
Awesome retro content 👍 Greetings from midnight geek 👋
Thanks for coming here. I'm a long fan of the geek and I'm glad that he accepted the offer to do a voodoo2 review.
Broke ass college me would've killed for an upgrade to 939 (stuck on socket a) back in the day
I had a socket a (2800+) until almost the end of 2006, when I upgraded to a 939 that I kept until 2010.
Hello, nice video, What is the song at 7:00? Please
Thank you, the song should be Beat Mekanik - Drift away.
@@retrodrive-thru47 Alright, Thanks!
It’s a shame we didn’t get any numbers for the games tested. UT99 has a built in benchmark and is my favourite game, would have been very interesting to see 😉
Why no patchmem?
Good question. I started like that and soon I was patching win98 for 512mb graphics cards. But in the end it felt like a hack (and also the dual channel didn't bring in too much performance gain) and just having more than 512mb for the software I've tested was kind of pointless so (after reinstalling windows) I preferred to keep it as close to the original as possible.
I also like to keep a balance of software and hardware - having them all inside of a 2 years period so I can recreate the original feeling (and this clip is actually a very bad example of keeping a balance). This clip is more like an example of exotic hardware (around 2003-2004) made to run 6 years old software to see if it's possible and also to investigate if the drivers supported the pcie that appeard after the support ended for 98.
I see! Yes it’s nice to keep it authentic! But I also like the overpowered new hardware 98 builds. It’s like dreaming what could have been if we continued to use glorious dos based 98 windows into the future 😉
@@JohnSmith-iu8cj then patchmem, also s-ata patch, the patch for 512mb+ graphics cards are a must and probably some more I can't even imagine right now, also drivers...but it's windows xp stability under various (driver) changes that wins over 98 in the end. But I guess it a nice dream, and I would also be curious what would have been...
E interesant de unde ai luat un 1400-S. Vezi că overclockează bine, până pe la 2.5GHz. Bate Intel Core Solo la frecvențele alea.
Luat de pe olx de la ronin82. Nu știu dacă as avea curaj sa-l duc pana la 2500 sau dacă as avea cu ce. Eu cam stau în placi de acum 20 de ani, fără sa le fi schimbat condensatorii inca. În clipul următor (am pe comunity un post despre clipul urmator, am un p4 423 la 1400, o sa-l adaug și pe asta în comparatie și o sa mai fie și un tueleron 1400)
Been awhile since I've heard someone call sata serial ata
Since I'm into the retro stuff, 90%of the time I'm dealing with ATA hard-drives. So it makes more sense for me to see a Sata hard-drive like a Serial ATA .. So far the channel has shown rather modern systems that I thought would appeal the viewers but my parts go way back to 286s and most of them are around the Pentium 2 pentium 3 period.
Not sure 4.9V instead of 5V makes a difference on 20 years old hardware ?
I'm also not sure that 4.9 would be of any importance but the constant variation between 4.9 and 5 I think was the issue.
NFS 5 kinda shows that the TNT (which launched only 3 months after the Voodoo2), was already pretty much ahead of the voodoo. Higher resolution textures might not have been a thing back in early 1998, but nVidia were clearly thinking ahead... not to mention that the TNT was already a DirectX6 card. While the Voodoo2 was only DX5 with maybe some DX6 features. And also the fact that you need 2x Voodoo2 for NFS5 to work as well as it does on a single TNT that's also displaying higher res textures, kinda makes you wonder!...
Indeed, but I still felt a little love from the developers for glide. Little graphical treats that can only be seen if you are really paying attention. Too bad we didn't get to see more of glide.
@@retrodrive-thru47 There were, though, 3 generations of the Glide API, AFAIK... each represented by their Glide.dll file (glide.dll, glide2x.dll and glide3x.dll). And by the end of 1999, and the launch of DX7; DirectX managed to catch up and surpass the glide API, making it pretty much obsolete. 3dfx Glide, starting as a stripped down version of OpenGL, pretty much did it's job bringing fast & good looking 3D graphics to the (very) low powered PCs of the mid 90's. But by the end of the millennium, computing power was almost 10x what is was @ '95 when Glide was conceived... so you could just use OpenGL, or the newly matured DirectX, which brought pretty much everything that 3dfx Glide did, and more... So IMO, Glide had a sufficiently long run to a) set an example of how things should be b) give us nice looking 3D games until the industry caught up :) By the year 2000, there were no tricks left up it's sleeve... 3dfx Glide was "that cool friend" or cousin, that everyone had, that used to bring you mp3s & games, before you had an internet connection :)
I bought an ATI X850 XT from Ebay about 2 years ago and absolutely fell in love with its retro gaming capabilities, it is the AGP version though but I don't think there's much of a difference if you can get the PCI-E version to work in 98, awesome card. By the way, I think you may also be CPU bottlenecked, no hate towards the Pentium 4 northwood but I managed to push this card a lot further with a Socket 939 rig.
The cpu is bottlenecking the graphics card, yes. I used it because it was the fastest I had so I was trying my best to match the graphics card. I think an A64 is better but a core 2 duo is even better.
@@retrodrive-thru47 I understand! It really doesn't matter for a Windows 98 gaming PC though as you'll be able to max out every game even with AA and AF forced in the ATI control panel. The X850 XT is the best card for Windows 98 when it comes to performance while still maintaining good game compatibility, I tested a LOT of games and demos and nearly all of them worked out of the box with no patches required. I also tried using a 6800 GT with Windows 98 and I completely regret it. 😅😅
That ram is plugged in the wrong way so it uses only single channel
Do more videos about this board, it looks interesting.
Sure, there's at least another one planned with some better cpus as many people requested
When you could get 2 GPUs for under $1000 and still be sorely disappointed...
:))
AGP
AGP
wow such a comprehensive work. Appreciated.
Thank you!
I thought that is AGP slot...
I wished. It's PCI-E.
blue retro pc is very rare and expensive
for that sound card to work for dos games you need the sound card to be set on irq 5. there is a dos driver fix on vogons forums that works with that.
Motherboard?
Asrock AliveDual e-sata2
nice
Thanks!
I'm surprised you didn't compare the AGP x850 vs the the PCI E x850 to see if there is a difference.
I did compare AGP vs PCI-E a while back on the channel (granted it was 3850 and 7900) but I also did this kind of comparison for myself a few years ago and it usually turns out (if you do it on a motherboard with a good implementation of AGP and PCI-E) that if you have graphics cards with the same frequencies they are equal. The manufacturers usually have slightly higher memory on the PCI-E therefore sometimes these need to be underclocked a bit. But it's a good idea for a future video. Maybe I can do a series with all the couples of PCI-E - AGP cards I have, as I have specifically collected many similar cards like that.
Source engine (Half-Life 2 etc) is a masterpiece of good quality code in every aspect.
It is. I will use if for more benchmarks in the future.
Paint wired lan card
Dessoldering agp slot and all block serial, lot, USB, keyboard and paint blue, ressoldering