Відео

It's the same with the *Pre Trib* Rapture teaching. People *read themselves* as the "Elect" that will escape, and "party in heaven" while "the Jews" will go through "seven years of tribulation", and that supposedly includes falling under God's wrath too... 🤔😦

Chris just seems like he was raised by a very controlling mother. Very controlling mother.

Chris actually tore down the deity of CHRIST in order to defend his blasphemous claims of calvinism.

The author analogy is just as good as good as any other calvinistic analogy yaw . NOT GOOD. NO NOT ONE . They all corruptly portray GOD and HIS righteousness. They all boil down to denying what CHRIST did in HIS death and resurrection.

Until I jettisoned my Reformed thinking, I had trouble with John 3:16.

😂 Never trust a Calvinist who uses the word "possible".

So, in other words, Chris is a big baby. Not trying to be mean spirited, but he acts like a baby when mildly criticized (constructively).

Sometimes I think it may hurt their feelings more for denying their interpretation than it would if you actually denied CHRIST HIMSELF.

The Lord is a jealous and avenging God; the Lord takes vengeance and is filled with wrath. The Lord takes vengeance on his foes and vents his wrath against his enemies. 3 The Lord is slow to anger but great in power; the Lord will not leave the guilty unpunished.

Isaiah 53:4-5: "he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed."

I had a conversation with a Calvinist recently about how I disagreed with their definition of sovereignty as having to do with causing all things to take place, including our sin and unbelief. He accused me of misrepresenting their definition and sent me an article of John Piper's definition that God can bring about anything he wills. I told him, I actually agree with that definition, but it contradicts what he said in a video. So I sent him the video where someone asks Piper if God decrees all things to come to pass like particles in the air and our sin. His answer was yes. I used to be a Calvinist, and I know what I was taught and believed. But when we come out of it and explain what they believe, they get defensive and claim we don't know what we're talking about. The reason is that when inspecting their doctrine, it is self contradictary. Therefore, a discussion with them goes in circles. I could start the discussion with my view of Romans 9 from a Provisionist perspective, they may accuse me of not properly exegeting the text, but I respond to all their objections. Eventually, they move on to another proof text and the same thing occurs. Then after awhile, we circle back to Romans 9.

I guess I am missing something... I don't understand how affirming PSA necessitates affirming limited atonement. Can someone explain why or how they are so intimately linked?

hat is the point of debating which of two incoherent positions makes more sense, lol?

Great podcast guys. To Drew's point at 25:20, do Calvinist's not believe that people have a spiritual nature prior to salvation? As I have read various Calvinists, they often refer to the idea that people are free to choose but only choose what their nature and desires determine them to choose. It is so similar to atheistic determinism that it sounds like they deny any spiritual component to fallen humanity. Any thoughts?

1:31:00 Good thing Calvinists have Paul to clear up all the ignorant nonsense the human Jesus was spewing.

Why are so many staunch Calvinists so thin skinned? They seem to have no problem holding to and pushing an inherently divisive theological position but go screaming like a Mogwi in bright light when you push back on them!

Something about him didn't seem right.

So God send Jesus as a whipping boy.??? I like to cut through the rhetoric to get to the Beef. (Where’s the beef)

Jesus came to save Israel from the curse of their law (1st covenant) - see Heb. 9.15. Jesus saves mankind from death - see Romans 5.

Calvanism!

Hi, I agree with PSA. I do not think one has to believe it to be saved or even be part of the overall Christian tradition. Very few doctrines one has to hold for the former. Jesus is God, incarnation, Trinity, The gospel, some form of sin, soteriology and atonement. But not that many. Many past Christians did not hold or even know about PSA. That is fine. I think they should have believed in it but many great Christians and thinkers never held to it. None of that makes PSA right or wrong but does frame that the discussion is one within Christianity. the Father (really all of the Trinity) is loving and wanting to forgive under PSA. He is also just. Man deserves the wrath of God but the gospel gives man a way to not experience that wrath while God remains good and just. People can experience the wrath of God but they do not have to do so. Thus, only showing how God wants to forgive man in His loving kindness does not disprove PSA. Jesus was the one who took the punishment and wrath of God. It was the will of God to crush Him. He was mitten and crushed by God because of iniquities. God poured out his wrath on Jesus instead of us. I have not had a chance to watch all of the videos but I thought I would post. From what I saw there seemed to be some confusion. Some little and some bigger.

So cool…you’re UNfrozen.

Do we save ourselves? YES.. by accepting Gods provision Jesus Christ, By accepting the Gospel of our Salvation. Calvinist see using Faith as a work and meritorious. It’s a lie. So when they say you’ve saved yourself.. ABSOLUTELY.. by choosing the Gospel. Ephesians 1:13 NKJV In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, By Grace we are saved THROUGH Faith AND THAT IS not of YOURSELVES.. it is a gift of God.. Faith comes and is given when hearing and believing Gods Word infused by Gods Spirit.. Rom 10:17. What happens when we hear Gods Word about Jesus… John 16:8-9 NKJV And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: [9] of sin, because they do not believe in Me; The Holy Spirit convicts us.. if we accept we are in if not… we are out.. I am saved because I used my faith when getting convicted of my sins my Gods Holy Spirit..

7:35 “as far as I know I affirm PSA, but I’m kind of questioning it” Drew Wow what a rock ribbed statement affirming PSA! 😅

One of the things that always bugged me about the anti-PSA crowd was the vague explanatuons of Jesus conquering death, without any explanation as to why God couldn't have just done that by snapping His fingers. Then I came across a blog where the author (Mako Nagasawa) argued that the early church saw human nature as damaged by sin, and Jesus undoing the damage by resisting temptation at every turn and making His human nature obedient to the Father so that He could then, by the Spirit, share His renewed human nature witb us. He quoted from a church father who described Jesus as making the Holy Spirit 'accustomed' to living within human nature and making human nature 'accustomed' to living with the Spirit. This made a lot more sense to me (it also brought Lewis 'perfect penitent' passage to mind).

How anyone could give Sam storms a platform is beyond me. After he defended Mike Bickel, I will never have any respect for him ever again.

32:12 Yes! God was already propitious and well-disposed toward humanity. His anger and wrath did not have to be assuaged by the gruesome death of his Son on the cross.

12:35 Yes, the work of Christ is multifaceted. I don't think any of them were worked out in great detail. Maybe we would be wise to leave it that way.

12:25 The biblical record, mostly in the Old Testament, but also in the New, of how God's wrath/anger is expressed has always baffled and challenged me. I've struggled to make sense of it in light of Christ's teachings, life, death and resurrection. The Hebrew Scriptures can't be taken in isolation from the Christian Scriptures with the revelation of the Messiah. The Bible doesn't teach that God is anger or wrath. Certainly, God gets angry. But, in his essence, God is love. This, and other things, may be characteristic of God. But they must flow from his divine nature, which is love. Everything we read about God in Scripture - his holiness, righteousness, anger, justice, mercy, forgiveness, etc. - must be defined by the God who is love. So, whatever is said about PSA must also be defined in this way. If it can't be, then it's not biblical.

What about traditionally non-Calvinist Christian universities? I am concerned about the new Provost at Biola. He came straight from the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. I can tell he’s Calvinist. Pretty sure his position oversees all the new faculty hires.😬

Just thinking from a Calvinist perspective: if our intuitions and understanding of Scripture are flawed due to God determining us to hold theologically and philosophically false views, and this being the case due to God having His own morally sufficient reasons... then how do we trust God for anything else, including our very salvation? 🧐 How do we KNOW that God isn't just going to send ALL of us to eternal torment given that He might have been deceptive about the entire human salvation plan, and this being the case due to God having His own morally sufficient reasons? For example, perhaps our universe is one of thousands or millions of universes where God is watching the outcome of the creaturely experiment and will ultimately keep the best ones with the best results and only take THOSE people or creatures from those winning universes to Heaven. The rest of us humans and creatures from the remaining failed universes are all doomed to Hell regardless. Maybe God didn't even know which universes would win out in the end, so His offer of salvation to us in this universe was potentially legitimate. But if our human experiment loses to another universe of beings somewhere in the other experiments, or if we're even just in the bottom half of all universes, then we're all headed for destruction despite thinking some of us are saved. 🤷‍♂️ I know. This sounds crazy, but (1) God could have His own morally sufficient reasons for sending us ALL to destruction - Christians and non-Christians alike - and (2) He could keep the majority of good or winning universes and so actually achieve an overall greater outcome than what's currently unfolding on Earth given that it's not looking so good with this "narrow path" that few are finding. 🧐 In summary: God could achieve an ultimately net positive result, and could have His own morally sufficient reasons, to have deceived all of us on Earth about this entire reality and salvation story, and we could all be heading for eternal torment or annihilation no matter what we choose, because we really can't trust anything or anyone, including God Himself. ⚠️🚫 Thoughts and pushback are welcome! 💯 👍

I just don't get it. If Christ didn't have to die in our place because of God's anger, what did He need to die for? I certainly don't have the faintest idea what this has to do with limited atonement. In the programme they talked about God having completely contrary feelings. Well, I thought that was the whole point. Jesus died to take away the anger of God, and sin's hold on us, so that only God's love remains victorious. And Jesus died to save the world, not just the elect in limited atonement understanding of the elect. Calvinism has the elect backwards. God did not elect who should be saved, but what happens to those who will believe in Jesus to take away their sins. But if we start to argue that Jesus is not a sacrifice to God, I think we are telling a different gospel.

WLC is not a Calvinist but affirms PSA

regarding the verses that say "God knows you" the Bible isn't referring to intellectually knowing somebody He is talking about biblical knowing as in Adam and his wife as in have become one. This is why Jesus could say on that day I will say I did not KNOW you. How these 'sola scripture' people don't understand the scripture is hard to understand any other way then they have blinded their eyes.

If ANYONE says, "You're not a Christian because you don't hold to the Augus..." it doesn't matter what name he throws out there if it isn't because God or Jesus says.... then they are a heretic. These people elevate the doctrines of men above the Word of God.

Guys, sin means to miss the mark. If Jesus's humanity was the one speaking when He said "How often would I have gathered.." Actual ANYTHING Jesus said and it is something that the Father Himself would not say Jesus would be missing the mark. And a Savior can't be a Savior Who sins. Basically, this guy is willing to have Jesus's Humanity to miss the mark instead of just interpreting the Bible by what He says in it. If Calvinism isn't a cult they sure do act like one the way they hold to their beliefs and twist the Bible to fit their doctrine instead of the other way around.

Just FYI for those of us who are slow. To "render propitious" is to say it changes the Father's attitude towards us from wrath to favor. propitious /prə-pĭsh′əs/ adjective 1. Presenting favorable circumstances or showing signs of a favorable outcome; auspicious. 2. Merciful or kindly. "a propitious deity." 3. Convenient; auspicious; favorable; kind.

I appreciate the intro with a clip to look forward to getting to but it really helps when there’s an overlay on the screen that says “coming up” or something like that. I feel a bit disoriented and confused when it’s not there but I may just be dumb lol.

Probably the division that bothers Chris is the dividing of calvinists from calvinism so that they leave the system and become non calvinists! Your guy's work is dividing off alot of people from calvinism. This is the good kind of division. Abstain from that which is evil and cling to that which is good! Chris is still blind to the errors of his system. Division must occur when the pagan philosophies of men have infiltrated Christian theology!

(1:20:42) be “devils advocate”?? No one disagrees with what Warren said! This entire talk is an exercise is Warrens disagreement with everything and the “Provisionists Perspective” on a topic that is too deep for that newest of new “doctrine”

These “issues” are your issues. Let’s be clear about that (1:04:17)

The only thing Warren is good at is steel manning doctrine except his own.

What is the Father is "rendered propitious" supposed to mean? Are you trying to say that the Father was propitiated? You seem to be using weird grammar...

Wanna know why you’re stuck with less than 5k subscribers? Because you are petty which you can’t help (51:52).

Excellent job showing how Chris is doing nothing but attempting to pull scripture out of context to try and support his false beliefs.

What is missing in your assessment of PSA is the fact that what Christ did, He did in real time within human history to fulfill the law and the prophets which will never be fully understood until we are in eternity so when you say that the adherence of those who affirm PSA do not believe there is no real redemptive work in the life of Christ during the first 33 years of his life (1:00:11) is to miss fulfillment part of Christ’s ministry.

This so confusing, Is there a very simple way to explain this in a few sentences?

I truly hope Chris will reconcile with Tim, Drew & Warren! What a testimony to the Lord if that would happen. 🙏🏼

He would be speaking for most Texans though 😆👍🏻

Could God merely forgive all humankind of sin? Yes. That is what he did. (1 John 2:2) Through the covenant in Christ's blood. (Luke 22:20) If some people would prefer not to think of their salvation in these terms, then scripture has other ways to view that reconciliation: adoption, marriage, friendship, 'in Christ', etc. But for some of us who have lived truly sinful lives, me included, the concept of substitution makes complete sense. Reading the testimonies from faithful souls across the ages, many have likewise not kicked against the goad of deliverance in such terms. It endears our hearts to the One who did for us what we could never do ourselves. But as was stated in this video, what truly matters is for all of us to have complete trust in the Lord Jesus the Messiah who saves, and to love each other as brothers and sisters.