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Keystone
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On Keystone, our goal is to fortify Latter-day Saint faith and combat misinformation through good old-fashioned research, presented in an easily-understandable, engaging, and respectful way.
John Taylor: From British convert to OUTLAW PROPHET
In The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints we hear a lot about Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, but we don’t hear much about the 3rd president of the Church, John Taylor. Come get to know him with us!
- “The Life of John Taylor,” by B. H. Roberts, available online here: tinyurl.com/55xcx6an
- See also, “Presidents of the Church,” by Manschill, Freeman, & Wright (not available online).
- “Classic Stories from the Lives of Our Prophets,” by Leon R. Hartshorn, available online here: tinyurl.com/mpv6u75z
- “The Life and Ministry of John Taylor,” via the Church’s website: tinyurl.com/33fwxwmx
- “Why a Prophet Was Forced into Hiding (+ How He Managed to Still Lead the Church),” via LDSLiving: tinyurl.com/vk4s6n5z
- “John Taylor’s Pocket Watch,” via the Church History Library (results of a multi-year investigation into whether the watch was struck by a bullet or not): tinyurl.com/vhn892ze
- “John Taylor: Family Man,” by J. Lewis Taylor (BYU RSC): tinyurl.com/yck8dbtw
- John Taylor, Adopted Son of America,” by Casey Paul Griffiths (BYU RSC): tinyurl.com/8rkvs5ne
- “Administration from the Underground,” by Eric Perkins and Mary Jane Woodger (BYU RSC): tinyurl.com/mfs83rhn
- “The Gardo House: A History of the Mansion and Its Occupants,” via HistoryToGo: tinyurl.com/asb4sz6z
- “The John Taylor Nauvoo Journal: January 1845-September 1845,” by Dean Jessee (BYU Studies): tinyurl.com/5dctc3jm
Notes:
- In his last public sermon before going into hiding, President John Taylor said, “What would you do? Would you resent these outrages and break the heads of the men engaged in them, and spill their blood? No; avoid them as much as you possibly can-just as you would wolves, or hyenas, or crocodiles, or snakes, or any of these beasts or reptiles.... Get out of their way as much as you can. What! Won’t you submit to the dignity of the law? Well, I would if the law would only be a little more dignified. But when we see the dignity of the ermine bedragged in the mud and mire, and every principle of justice violated, it behooves men to take care of themselves as best they can…. But no breaking of heads, no bloodshed, rendering evil for evil. Let us try to cultivate the spirit of the gospel, and adhere to the principles of truth…. While other men are seeking to trample the Constitution under foot, we will try to maintain it….” Source: “The Life of John Taylor,” by B. H. Roberts, pg. 337.
- The subject of John Taylor’s supposed 1886 revelation on the new and everlasting covenant is not addressed in this video, as it really deserves its own episode (and because it wasn’t found until after John’s death). But for those looking for more info on this topic, here’s a great resource: tinyurl.com/mw87dkdd
Facebook: keystonelds/
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Website: www.keystonelds.com
Apple podcast: tinyurl.com/3rx4cw4u
Spotify podcast: tinyurl.com/33r9f737
Amazon podcast: tinyurl.com/5cendacy
- “The Life of John Taylor,” by B. H. Roberts, available online here: tinyurl.com/55xcx6an
- See also, “Presidents of the Church,” by Manschill, Freeman, & Wright (not available online).
- “Classic Stories from the Lives of Our Prophets,” by Leon R. Hartshorn, available online here: tinyurl.com/mpv6u75z
- “The Life and Ministry of John Taylor,” via the Church’s website: tinyurl.com/33fwxwmx
- “Why a Prophet Was Forced into Hiding (+ How He Managed to Still Lead the Church),” via LDSLiving: tinyurl.com/vk4s6n5z
- “John Taylor’s Pocket Watch,” via the Church History Library (results of a multi-year investigation into whether the watch was struck by a bullet or not): tinyurl.com/vhn892ze
- “John Taylor: Family Man,” by J. Lewis Taylor (BYU RSC): tinyurl.com/yck8dbtw
- John Taylor, Adopted Son of America,” by Casey Paul Griffiths (BYU RSC): tinyurl.com/8rkvs5ne
- “Administration from the Underground,” by Eric Perkins and Mary Jane Woodger (BYU RSC): tinyurl.com/mfs83rhn
- “The Gardo House: A History of the Mansion and Its Occupants,” via HistoryToGo: tinyurl.com/asb4sz6z
- “The John Taylor Nauvoo Journal: January 1845-September 1845,” by Dean Jessee (BYU Studies): tinyurl.com/5dctc3jm
Notes:
- In his last public sermon before going into hiding, President John Taylor said, “What would you do? Would you resent these outrages and break the heads of the men engaged in them, and spill their blood? No; avoid them as much as you possibly can-just as you would wolves, or hyenas, or crocodiles, or snakes, or any of these beasts or reptiles.... Get out of their way as much as you can. What! Won’t you submit to the dignity of the law? Well, I would if the law would only be a little more dignified. But when we see the dignity of the ermine bedragged in the mud and mire, and every principle of justice violated, it behooves men to take care of themselves as best they can…. But no breaking of heads, no bloodshed, rendering evil for evil. Let us try to cultivate the spirit of the gospel, and adhere to the principles of truth…. While other men are seeking to trample the Constitution under foot, we will try to maintain it….” Source: “The Life of John Taylor,” by B. H. Roberts, pg. 337.
- The subject of John Taylor’s supposed 1886 revelation on the new and everlasting covenant is not addressed in this video, as it really deserves its own episode (and because it wasn’t found until after John’s death). But for those looking for more info on this topic, here’s a great resource: tinyurl.com/mw87dkdd
Facebook: keystonelds/
Insta: keystonelds
Website: www.keystonelds.com
Apple podcast: tinyurl.com/3rx4cw4u
Spotify podcast: tinyurl.com/33r9f737
Amazon podcast: tinyurl.com/5cendacy
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I laughed when he said I am going to grab a water bottle. idk why that was so funny
He survived Carthage Jail.
Well he didnt try very hard did he...
I just wanted to say that I was raised Protestant, practiced paganism for years, and am not even sure what I believe these days, but I love your videos. A while back I became really obsessed with learning about Joseph Smith and the LDS church. Not really sure why, I just find it all very interesting and am currently reading the Book of Mormon. I don’t think I’ll end up converting, but I’ve learned a lot from you and really enjoy your content. Thanks! 😊 Edit: I studied world religions in college so I guess it’s not too surprising I like learning about others’ beliefs.
These guys look like they suck eachother off
💀
Still in kindergarten are you
@@kip2703 yeah perfect age for john smith.
He is my great great great uncle
Screw pleas to authority. I have 0 faith in so called "experts".... I have 0 interest in trusting the arm of flesh.
I know prophets are humans and humans are not perfect. But I honor and sustain our prophets seers and revelators. I dont honor "experts." I consider them. If a cultural zeitgeist could impact prophets it 100% influences and impacts "experts."
Oh gads.... philosophies of men("experts") mingled with scripture..... trusting in the arms of flesh.... the hubris of man. Im sure there is a better way to look at this.... but I cant stomach this and I am a college educated card carrying member of Mensa. I appreciate intelligence.
I'm glad you mentioned he had at least 16 wives. Usually the official story is half that. I think I will go check out that book your referenced it sounds interesting. JT married women against their will and the Church tried to erase the history of John's marriages to these women that divorced him or ran away. Go load up John Taylor's family search profile and you'll see the sealing records and that it was much more than 8 women.
THE CHURCH CHURCH JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS IS THE LORDS TRUE CHURCH HERE UPON THE EARTH 🌎 PLEASE PRAY AND ASK GOD IF THIS IS TRUE AND RECEIVE YOUR OWN SPIRITUAL WITNESS OF IT'S TRUTH
Wow this is a cool testimony, "How I overcame my Mormon Truth Crisis as an Attorney - Justin Sweeney | Ep. 1989"
Many of my relatives joined the Church while living in Toronto. And they were introduced to polygamy by Joseph after moving to Nauvoo.
Is that a good thing?
Absolutely. 14 of my Great Great Grandparents believed in and practiced polygamy. Just like Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Moses.
@@UVJ_Scott The only problem is that God commands 1 man to 1 woman, and nowhere did God ever command polygamy. If you research the bible, the mentions of polygamy are 99% in the context of sin. Polygamy and polyandry are adultery. Jesus makes this very clear in Matthew 19:8-9. "Whoever marries another commits adultery"
And didn't Joe deny practicing polygamy? Isn't that why Joe burned down the printing presses because they were about to expose his adultery with multiple woman?
@@UVJ_Scott it's sad that so many hate God's culture.
Wow. That's a lot a latitude to make up whatever you want and say it's from God. Who honestly doesn't see through this crap? Oh yeah, me for 40 years.😂
Was the baptismal prayer which is an ordinance dictated by God or open for revision by men? What are the references the church used to write the introduction to D&C as it does not exist in the original texts by Joseph . Since Joseph did not remove the Lectures on Faith from the Covenants where is the revelation dictating that and which Prophet received that revelation? Or was it inspiration or was it simply desire as is was different from what the Church was teaching ?
Bro Griffiths would do well to study 'Design' principles and practice as an enhancement to his theological perspective. Pres Monson once said "surely there was a grand designer". Gaining a designers perspective on the gospel and plan of salvation ads peices to the puzzles.
I was a new young convert to the Church . A beautiful conversion story that really changed my life so much for the better . I went to institute classes, loved what l was taught there and met really good friends. A happy bunch of young people One particular lesson our institute teacher invited another teacher along who started to talk about the Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith and mentioned that Heavenly Father had a Father. This was totally new to me this concept and l was having a hard time with the thought but l couldn't deny the feeling of the Holy Gost that was there so strong as he spoke telling me what he was saying was true. It says in the Scriptures that a time will come when all things shall be revealed but to whom much is given much is required so it's wise for the Lord to teach us line upon line. Many thanks for this video and sharing your insights. God bless you all 🙏❤️. Loved it.
The 12 oxen represent your last clue, right in front of your face, that you are in a cult! Before you do pretend baptisms for dead people.
Joe Smith is the only Prophet to get away with coming up with his own prophecy. You people are silly to go along with this crap
your hairline is closer to christ
So, it was hearsay that John Taylor was going to be tarred and feathered, and then he wasn't actually tarred and feathered at all. Exactly what is it you're trying to get me to believe about John Taylor? That he was passionate and courageous in the face of... imaginary evil? If you're going to make a hero out of somebody, they actually have to have gone through something that required heroism. This would have been a much better story if he taunted his perceived enemies to go ahead and tar and feather him, and then they actually did it. Otherwise, the story only serves as an appeal to my emotions that isn't warranted, and therefore manipulative. It's my observance that Mormon apologetics love a good persecution narrative. They either tell the story in a way that suggests a Mormon was under persecution when they may not have been, or they leave out the details of why someone, for good or evil, actually wanted to persecute a Mormon. Usually inferring the sentiment that the devil persuaded ambiguous evil men to do it for no good reason, and had allied the whole world against Mormons to stop the restoration at all costs. I get really tired of this persecution narrative.
If John Taylor *believed* that there was a viable threat that he would be tarred and feathered (which is what the available documents suggest), and went to preach despite that real threat, then I consider that a brave thing to do, even if there turned out to be no threat at all (which we don't know was the case). But if you're looking for something even more concrete, I think his decision to stay in Carthage with Joseph and Hyrum Smith fits the bill nicely. Danger was imminent, and Taylor didn't have to be there, but he chose to stay, and ended up taking four bullets for it.
@keystonelds I'm not going after John Taylor's character. I'm sure he was a good Christian guy, and after he posted his bail for the same charge of riot that Joseph Smith and Hyrum were charged with for destroying an American printing press, he stuck around to support his friends. That's pretty awesome. My complaint is about your storytelling. Not recognizing that the story about John Taylor preaching to an audience that probably had very little reason to tar and feather him, to try to boost his character reveals your own personal agenda and it reveals an overdramatization of the facts. It comes across as manipulative to your audience. My critique is not of John Taylor, it is of you for not recognizing logical fallacy in your storytelling.
@@keystonelds But can't you see how people of that day are getting upset at the spread of polygamy and polyandry? Sure he may have been in danger because he is spreading directly or indirectly a practice that is by all standards adultery!!!
@@kevinedward-jt2vs John Taylor preached in Columbus OH in 1839, and he wasn't himself converted to the doctrine of polygamy until 4-5 years later. While I am unsure if he had heard rumors about Joseph Smith and Cowdery's accusation of Joseph having an affair with Fanny Alger, or the resulting secret marriages, it's unclear how much Taylor, or even the public generally, knew about polygamy in 1839. To your point, of course, it all came to a head in 1844 with Joseph Smith losing his mind over his secrets being made public, overreacting in his hubris, and then suffering the consequences. I think this famous story about Taylor being bold in the face of a perceived tar and feather threat is more likely a tall tail that was devised later to bolster the story, much like the story of Brigham looking like Joseph, and the men who carried men, women, and children across a freezing river on their exodus. There is so much made up in early Mormon history to the side of making it all seem like it is more than it is, it's hard to take seriously stories designed to glorify the characters of early Mormon leaders in the eyes of their believers.
A lot of seven year olds made the mistake of converting to Methodism back then.
Got any info on that white/black photo at 5:19? I.E. Source? I have one of my great-great-grandfather in front of that door but don't know a ton on the photo.
So they were all criminals, which is why they went to Salt Lake and rid the valley of Indians. A long histrory of crimes drove them to leave the USA.
I got my first name because of him! Thanks John!
"But if we or an angel from heaven teach you a different gospel than we have taught you, let him be accursed." Almost as if the Apostle Paul knew beforehand that Muhammed and Joseph Smith would show up with new gospels claiming to have received them from angels. Mormons would be well advised to hide that scripture. So yes, The Bible condemns Mormonism just like it condemns Islam, even before those were created. Heresy.
If he was a prophet, why you are referring to him as DUDE and GUY ?
Because Prophets are regular people that are called of God.
Same as catholics, they fall into traditions, and rituals just like the pharasees, who make the word of God useless by their traditions. The word of God is the ultimate authority because the bible is the spoken word of God. From the past OT and the NT, God is above all, and if you reject the Word of God you rejext the creator
So many wonderful things to learn in this video! I hope you make one for each of the prophets!!!
John Taylor wrote 10 Word of the Lord revelations that we know about. Two of them were put for a time in European editions of the Doctrine and Covenants. Even though they were never canonized, the Church has never rejected them. None of them condemn Brigham, by the way, for his controversial teachings.
The LDS Church philosophies is such good food for a narcissist..my main objection. I was beat to death with it 😊❤
The experience of Oliver wanting to translate and the explanation to him that he needed to study it out then when he arrived at the correct conclusion the Holy Ghost would confirm it. This, I think, is the pattern by which revelation comes to individuals for personal revelation and for the church. Truth revealed by the Holy Ghost, however, has a higher degree of certainty and power than a conclusion that we arrive at on our own.
Thank you ❤
What about the fact that in 1886 he got a revelation that said plural marriage would never be revoked? And the church knew about it and lied and covered it up for decades
I have a note on this subject and a link to further resources in the description of this video for those curious about this.
@@keystonelds With mormons, there always seems to be a reason why the plain evidence is never what it says plainly. Seer stones are demonic, but they are not. Joe denied polygamy until he didn't. The boa is by the hand of abraham until it isn't. On and on and on... can you understand why some think the mormons are a cult?
For all you that are curious it's in the 1978 manual called My kingdom shall roll forth.
It seems crazy he went all the way from England to Canada, then back to Europe on a mission, then back to Utah. I get depressed enough when I think about the hours of my life that I’ve spent cleaning or traveling. For John Taylor, that’s years of traveling between basically like three places that you could have traveled in a couple days now.
John Taylor British?! Eating tea and dunking crumpets? Whaaaa
Can you explain how they dealt with the wee and poo sloshing all over everything in a vessel with curved walls?
Who is this?
Theology Degrees in Beliefs 😊❤
Obey Gods Commandments and Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount. Complete Gospel. Everything You need to know. Don’t need Man’s commandments. Jesus already corrected the Pharisees 😊❤
1 Kings 7:23-26 Then he made the sea of cast metal. It was round, ten cubits from brim to brim, and five cubits high, and a line of thirty cubits measured its circumference. Under its brim were gourds, for ten cubits, compassing the sea all around. The gourds were in two rows, cast with it when it was cast. It stood on twelve oxen, three facing north, three facing west, three facing south, and three facing east. The sea was set on them, and all their rear parts were inward. Its thickness was a handbreadth, and its brim was made like the brim of a cup, like the flower of a lily. It held two thousand baths. This was outside the temple and used for ritual cleansing.
Wow graphics, Dave
John Taylor is my 1st cousin, 7 generations back! He is the reason my family joined the church!
He was my great great great uncle
Another top-notch video. Stay on the wagon and the universe is yours!
My favorite family claim is that the reward offered for GQC was greater than that of Pres Taylor.
I have a question. Do Mormons accept other groups of Christians as their brothers and sisters in covenant with Christ, or are they viewed as deceived people who are blinded from the truth?
We see fellow Christians as children of God, first, and in that sense our brothers and sisters. We acknowledge the many truths Christian religions have painstakingly preserved over the centuries. We honor anyone's sincerely held beliefs and invite all Christians to continue to embrace the knowledge they have, while also taking the time to find out if the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints can add to that knowledge and belief. Any promises you have made to Jesus are important and sacred and can draw you closer to him. If you would like to make covenants through Christ's authority restored to men on earth, then that is done only in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, beginning with baptism.
An excellent question. It gets a little bit complicated, but the run down version is we love our brothers and sisters in Christ and believe that God will provide a way for each to come back to Him. We don't see anyone as heretics for believing something different. At the most a little confused, but aren't we all. We do call ourselves the one true church though, but it's because we believe that God has restored the Holy preisthood Authority to communicate with, and represent Him through visions and revelations as prophets like Moses, Abraham, Ezekiel, Elijah and the apostles of the New Testiment did, so that the worldly ideas and traditions that have been set up by men can be refined from the Holy ones set up by God.
We do not think you are a deceived people blinded from truth. That is usually how we are viewed. I see other Christians as lovers of Christ. We believe there is more to the gospel than other Christians and love to share what we believe, but we in general we do not see other Christians as bad, deceived people. Members with issues may, but they don’t speak for the whole of us.
Let me first disclose I'm an ex mormon. When I went to a Baptist church as a child I told my mother I felt the spirit more at that church than the Mormon church. She told me the spirt is in both places because they have partial truth just not the entire truth. I'm agnostic now but I think that is the general view of the membership.
Pop a note on your bathroom mirror. Would be the same result and a lot easier.
Super interesting history! You should keep doing these.
Do you believe Joe committed polygamy with teenagers?
Thank you so much for this video, i an grateful for those who put in the effort to share history in a digestible way, like you guys
John Taylor is also the one that started sending Mormon settlers into Alberta, Canada. Awesome guy.
Thanks for sharing this
If protestants followed "Sola Scriptura", they should keep Saturday as the Sabbath Day from the Bible, like the Pope pointed out.