Відео

Trust me. If I had one, it’d be on here. That thing is such a stellar drum!

Thanks man! This is a hard rock and metal-focused channel, so everything I do is looked through that lens. I’m really glad you enjoyed the video.

Dammmmmmmnn… I bet that thing sounded incredible!!

There’s a lot of wrong statements here, so I’ll address them one by one: It’s a 3mm difference. Legend has it the original shell makers confused the outside diameter for the inside diameter, and the shell is 3mm thick. Even when comparing one OG 1980 Tama BB to another, the bigger ones sound better. Wire sensitivity: like I said, the shell is oversized and if you’re using a Remo reso head and that head isn’t very round (And Remo sucks at quality control) I could see how he’s having a problem. Also, the extended snare wires are different and require more adjusting when first setting them up. Yes these are centrifugal cast shells, which cost MORE than sandcasting, but centrifugal casting is more consistent. Tama tried both and said that the centrifugal shells sounded better. Ali from Guven Bronze in Turkey made a big ass post as to why centrifugal casting costs more, and we all thought it was cheaper until he educated us. In 1980, the Tama BB snares cost $3499, which in today’s money is almost $14,000. So it’s actually a screamin deal.

@@BeatsAndMeats I'm copying verbatim from Tama's website: "A significant, but little known fact of the original Mastercraft Bell Brass is the shell's exact 14" (355mm) diameter. As modern shells are usually 2mm smaller in diameter (to accommodate different drumhead manufacturers) the Bell Brass' extra size contributes to its magnificent and massive tone." My point was to illustrate that a person will likely have to use an oversized head in order to seat it properly. So if you have one of these drums, you'll probably need to use Evan 360 or Aquarian to get the head tuned properly. Whereas if it was slightly undersized you could fit anything without a problem including the poorly made Remos. Centrifuge debate: I understand the centrifuge is more consistent and probably makes better shells without risking structural failure. I was trying to argue the idea that it may form the shells almost too perfectly; the end result being a generification in terms of sound. However, that could be relative and subjective. Head choice will most likely be a key ingredient to these drums to dial in the tone as well as to seat properly. If Guven told you it costs more to centrifuge, then I have no reason to disbelieve him. I was going on the idea that sand casting is labor intensive and requires expertise in the process. I do not mean to imply that a centrifuge is child's play and any person can operate it. However, the centrifuge is a more automated process which probably makes more shells in less time with less failure; thus increasing productivity. So from that end, they are probably saving money just in terms of reducing or even eliminating waste. I'm curious where you got the information that the 1980 bell brass were $3499? I haven't been able to find any price lists from that time. I saw old catalogues on Tama's site but they do not include prices. I did not mean to start a war here. If you're happy with your drum, that is all that matters. I am a fan of bell brass/bronze drums and also a fan of Tama; otherwise I would not have cared enough to comment. I would like to get one at some point just to try it but $4000 is not in my budget. Cheers.

@@mrnegronis If you have a Facebook account, you know that the best thing about FB is the groups. You can learn everything there is to know about literally any subject you can imagine. Theres a group called Tama Bell Brass And Other Heavy Shell Snares. There are guys on there who have so much free time on their hands, that they've learned everything there is to know about these snares... alloy composition, they've laser-measured their snares, build 3D models in CAD, scanned old catalogs, LEARNED TO READ Japanese, etc etc. Anyways, all the OG 1980 Tama BB shells are slightly different, but they're all around 2-3mm bigger than a regular size snare. Sonor infamously make their shells smaller than normal to make the head always seat perfectly flat. In other words, theres more variety from manufacturer to manufacturer than most people would intuitively think. (Side note: Mapex actually makes most drums for most manufacturers. A detail that no one advertises.) As for centrifuge vs sand casting... what you stated is exactly what we all thought! When we heard that they were gonna be centrifugal cast, we we're like "Oh man these drums are gonna sound like ass!" And then the guys who had OG 1980 Tama BBs got the new ones and immediately reported that the had the secret sauce! In that same FB group, someone has a scan of the original ad for the 1980 that includes the price. If you join and ask someone, they will post it for you. Cheers!

Those Gretsch snares sound so effing good!!!

You’re totally right. It was too high. I had the batter head at 311hz. I did that because not all of my snares can handle low tunings and I wanted a tuning where I could make a fair comparison with all of them. I currently have the batter at 261hz and it sounds much better!

@@BeatsAndMeats You get out of them what you put into them, keep up the good work!!

That’s a big win if you can make it sound awesome!

The guy that I bought the 40th Anniversary from… he had a Savage 14x6.5 5mm shell, and it sounded FUCKING amazing!!! You are going to LOVE it!

@@BeatsAndMeats they’re all Duluth shells apparently.

I don’t think Duluth is making shells anymore. I know he occasionally makes a one-off shell for someone who ordered ages ago. And I know he’ll make some hoops from time to time.

Mine is secondhand so probably the right age to be from when they were making. I think you can still get a quote for hoops and shell from their website.

Either way, you’re gonna love it man!! If you have any troubles getting it to sound it’s best, let me know and I’ll walk you through it. They’re incredible instruments.

Yes they do

It’s for recording… you know pros have $20,000 microphones… $30,000 compressors, $50,000 monitors. A $4000 snare is nothing that big a deal when you’re getting into pro stuff. The prices get completely nuts!

No

Absolutely!!! Drum tones are “one weird trick to sound great” but rather it’s 50 different small things that all add up. But if you already have all those wonderful things, a better snare will sound… better!

The processing on the drums is for a full mix with music. Since I’m not a mix engineer and don’t want to be a mix engineer, I just kept everything the same as I would have it in a full mix with guitars and bass and some vocalist screaming his head off haha. And when you’re playing music at pretty fast tempos, you can’t just have the drums ringing for 3 seconds each. It just doesn’t work in context.

Thank you for your incredible contribution to the conversation! Would you like to lighten the rest of us idiots with more pearls of wisdom?

This is why God gave us TWO kidneys… so we could sell one and get the most killer snare tone everrrrrrrr

Hindsight is 20/20, but I had the a similar problem with a snare once and I just got the edges fixed. It has an obvious sharp dent in it that was cutting through the head… I think it cost $25 to pay someone to file it.

@@BeatsAndMeats Yep....agreed. I was on the road and didn't have the resources, just had to replace it. Ugh. I think I would up getting a used Black Beauty soon after.

Thanks man! It took me a long ass time to figure out how to get snares to sound like this.

Those bell brass tamas are great though.

No it can’t. Not even close. The COB snares sound totally fine. And if you like “fine,” then that’s a snare you can use. The bigger COB snares do what I want a lot better than a tiny 5x14. Copperphonic still beats the brakes off of them though. But I like the COB better than the Black Beauty

@@BeatsAndMeats your snares are a one trick pony. you pay for a single sound. Ludwig 60's era 5x14 will cover jazz - metal and everything else. a good one goes for about 1k. Your biggest mistake is using a CS Black Dot batter on your snare for recording. There is no way it sounds better than a coated 10 mil single ply head. If you like that ONE sound, fine over pay. I prefer a more versatile snare.

@@musshwins412 You are absolutely right! I even said that at the end of the video. I want one snare to do one thing… really really well. If I wanted a versatile snare, which i absolutely do NOT, I’d get a brand new 14x6.5 Supraphonic. As for the head choice, A CS Black Dot is a 10mil head, it’s just clear instead of coated, because clear heads have more 8-10khz in the transient attack and that’s the sound I was going for. Coated heads shave off some low end, and some high end in the attack, which gives it a characteristically “warmer” sound. I can’t play a regular ass coated Ambassador because i just destroy those heads too quickly… which sucks because i really like how they sound. So the CS Dot is just an Ambassador with the dot there to keep me from demolishing them in one take.

@@BeatsAndMeats i recommend aquarian tc. i found the build of the coated head to be superior to a coated ambassador and just as tunable. snare is a very personal sound and as i have grown as a musician i have found versatility to be a huge factor. your sound is not wrong, it is your sound. How much can you do with that sound is the real question.

@musshwins412 Aquarian’s coating is really super durable! Their heads are also WAY more consistent than Remo… Remo has terrible quality control. And come to think of it… I’ve never tried the regular ass Aquarian Texture Coated before. I’ve used the Triple Threat, the Focus-X, and the Studio-X. The Regulator is my favorite kick reso ever.

Dude they had such a brutal kick sound!! I absolutely LOVE that whole album!

Debatable

You’re totally right! It absolutely comes down to preference. In a full death metal mix, the differences do become more apparent though… this was the very first day that I had it, and I had to pick a tuning that worked with each one of the snares… and what head do you think I should have used?

Was it a wood or metal snare?

@@BeatsAndMeats Wood. I don't know if it had a metal shell on the inside covered by a wooden shell, but the outside was wood.

Bell bronze hoops, the flat, heavy ones.

That’s exactly what they did. They made an exact copy of HIS snare. It was unique and not at all what they had originally intended in 1980

Black Beauty is the only Ludwig snare drum that I just don’t like.

A “normal” 14 inch shell is 352mm in diameter. This shell is 355mm in diameter. As the story goes, the original shell manufacturer confused the outside diameter for the inside diameter. The shell is 3mm thick… so this makes sense. The weird thing is that those OG 1980 shells weren’t very consistent or uniform or precise. The one “Terminator” varied in thickness throughout the shell, and Tama has tried to copy it as closely as possible, with modern casting techniques.

@@BeatsAndMeats Wow! so it essentially became the best snare by accident?? Yeah I guess "Terminator" would be a better name to sell it by than "Accidental Perfections" Thats crazy

@@BeatsAndMeats wow im not great with metric measurements so I had to convert that to 3mm difference to english and that converts to 1.89/16ths Thats a sh*tload larger tbh. I can believe you could even get the head on that

*cant

@morokeiboethia6749 A total accident that nobody noticed for about 10 years.

I bring my own mics to shows. Clip them on my drums backstage. Saves setup time and lets the sound guy spend more time making it sound good.

What’s a Rock 9?

Thanks man! The thing about it is that it doesn’t start sounding thin in a full mix. You can pile on as many instruments as you want and it still sounds big. But I agree, deep snares always slay for me!

@@BeatsAndMeats excellent, that's an important factor! And to be fair, judging a drum just because how does it sound recorded over UA-cam would not be OK. I can imagine that such a drum surely sounds killer in a live setting. I used to play in a band with a drummer who owned a 14x8 Yamaha brass snare from the 80s and we used to call it the "amp killer". It was my first experience with a deep snare, and also the first with a brass made one. We also had the reference of the Nevermind snare, and that day I was in love! I also own a 14x8 myself, a very important tool in the arsenal and my most recorded snare (I own a recording studio). Congrats again and thank you for the video!!

I’m shocked more people don’t have them. They’re fucking great!!

definitely more versatile than these overpriced "one trick" ponies.

What kind of Sonor snare drum was he using?

Let’s hear it! Which one do you have?

It’s such a BEAUTIFUL freaking snare!!!

$750 and it comes with a Humes and Berg Enduro Pro hard case.

So much of it depends on how fast the song is, and how much other shenanigans is happening in the song. A song like “Under The Bridge” doesn’t need an atom bomb of a snare and has tons of room for a big verby room sound. But imagine the Enter Sandman snare on a Police record, hahaha!!

See if you can get your hands on a Tama Rosewood 14 x 6.5 I would love to hear it with your setup.

@@ludwigdrummer7802 I've heard they're pretty great! HOWEVER... I've only heard one wood snare that I really liked... a 13x6.5 Yamaha Musashi... for reasons I can't explain, I really like oak drums... makes no sense to me at all.

I have never ever played a Dynasonic. Is yours steel or wood?

Finally SOMEBODY is asking the right questions!!! Props to you kind sir, I will answer all of your questions. 1) The shell is 3mm larger than normal. The company making the shells back then mixed up the outside diameter for the inside diameter, and the shell is 3mm thick, so the shell is 3mm wider than it should have been. 2) 3mm is a MASSIVE fucking difference when your talking about shell construction, much the same way that a 6mm thick shell will sound COMPLETELY different from a 3mm shell. Especially when you're talking about how the bearing edge is going to seat on the head. Think of it this way, if your snare has just a 1/16" inch flat spot on the bearing edge, it will sound like complete and total ASS and you'll think your snare just sucks, when in reality, the bearing edge is damaged and needs to be fixed. This happened to the Trick shell that I put in the Pearl Free Floater, it sounded like garbage when I first got it. I emailed Trick and the owner of the company had me ship it to his house and he re-welded the shell and recut the edges and now it sounds great! 3) Yes indeed, snare head brands do fit differently, but the biggest factor is actually quality control. Remo has absolutely fucking terrible dogshit quality control, and I'd say 1 in every 7 Remo heads are unusable. Thats why I cant buy them online, I have to go to the damn Guitar Center and inspect every single head that I want to buy. I used the Remo Controlled Sound Clear on all the snares because its easy to tune and for some reason, the welds on the collar are more consistent than any other head Remo makes. 4) I DO know literally every single thing about those factors mentioned above. I have tried almost every snare head ever made on each of my snare drums except of course on the snare that I just unboxed right in front of you. It would've made for the most boring video in history if I demo'd 17 different snare heads on 6 different snare drums. I know precisely what snare heads work on heavy metal shells and which do not. The 2nd best head to use on a heavy shell snare is the Evans Genera Dry. The 3rd best is a Remo P77 with the muffling ring cut out from the head. The 4th best head is the Aquarian Triple Threat. The 5th best head is the Evans Power Center Reverse Dot. The 6th best head is the Evans EC Reverse Dot. 5) All that being said.. which did you like best? Keep in mind that I tuned all the drums to 311.1hz on the batter (quite high) and 432hz on the snare side head. This is because some of my snares sound like ass at lower tunings and I wanted to do a fair comparison, eliminating as many variables as possible. 261.6hz on the batter is my preferred tuning. 6) Ross Garfield, the owner of Drum Doctors, who owns the actual Terminator, said that he has owned 7 of the 1980 Tama Bell Brass snares and that they all sounded different, but the ones that had the widest circumference, were the hardest to tune and also sounded the best.

@@BeatsAndMeats, thank you for responding and for the detailed clarification. Take care and God bless. 🤘

@@gregoryvlchek269 No, thank YOU for using your brain and leaving a thoughtful comment! It is sincerely appreciated!

@@BeatsAndMeats, thank you for the compliment. Oh and, by the way, personally, I think that the best recorded snare sound I ever heard is Lars' snare on "Sad But True" from the 'Black Album'. Holy shit! Producer, Bob Rock is a genius!

Yeah Sad But True is as good as it gets. Avenged Sevenfold “Shepherd of Fire” is really great too! You should definitely check it out.

The idea is to show how the snares sound IN CONTEXT. Listeners don’t just hear a snare drum by itself, they hear it as part of a whole kit, plus all the other instruments on top of them. And it always pisses me off when someone does a review on a snare, and they just hit it with their purse like they just got back from getting a vasectomy. So I decided that every snare review or kick drum review or drumhead review or cymbal review, I’m just gonna play blastbeats the whole time hahaha

Exactly! If you’re not recording regularly, there’s no need for something like this… and I’ve only played a Ludwig Vistalite kick, 22x14 I think, and it sounded killer!

The cool thing about aluminum is that it is its own thing. I have a 14x8 aluminum shell that I can put in that Pearl Free Floater basket. When I was using it, it has been his enormous fundamental note without much high end in the attack. But I was much worse at tuning back then. Maybe I should revisit that shell and see what I can do with it.

Also see if you can get a Ludwig Black beauty 14x16.5 from the '70s.

@@ludwigdrummer7802 I have a super sensitive black beauty from the 70s.. still darker sounding than aluminum!

Yikes indeed! It’s like any other stupidly expensive piece of gear though… if you’re doing it for a living AND it makes you money, well then it’s not so bad. There’s plenty of vocal mics that are well over $10k.

...provided that you use the same snare wires, that is. ^^ Get 8 times the same cheapo wires and try with those. I guranatee to you that your eyes, your confirmation bias and the sunken cost fallacy (with regards to time invested into this journey, not necessarily money) will make more difference in how you percieve the sound than the actual physical sound differences. Yes, I hear that they are different, but what I'm saying is that if aomeone else tunes them (and soes so well), and if you can't look, you will probably not be able to even pick it out.

I think you’re absolutely correct... except for the Dialtune snare. That thing is quite the pain generator. Part of the journey was to see “Well how good can this possibly get.” As it turns out, I was pretty damn close beforehand. And now I can safely lay it to rest knowing that there is no magical better thing out there.

Thanks man! I really appreciate it!