This is exactly how I feel about the crusade that some people seem to be going on against Josiah. I can understand the idea that some plain and precious things were removed from scripture, but I feel like some people are really looking beyond the mark and being very speculative as to exactly what those things are. They come up with their own conclusions and imply that we should throw out entire books of scripture as unreliable.
Ah, okay, so I just discovered a cool new idea. I think I will test out the concept of Gnostic ideas by talking with my pears about it. Then, if any of my other preconceived notions contradict this, I will purify them so that they align with this novel new concept you provided. Afterwards, I will start recruiting others into believing in the existence of Gnostic ideas. Am I doing it right? On a serious note, I did enjoy this video, and your previous video before that. 2.3 subs with just two videos? I could only dream of that. Continue doing the lords work. Also, will you ever get into talking about other anti-LDS channels? I have tried looking at the content of other, similar "anti-LDS debunking" channels, but they don't seem to cover the more substantive criticisms of the church. Have you ever watched the Mormon Informant, or GLM (which stands for "God Loves Mormons")? I realize now that they could be the product of gnostic pride, however I think it would do great to get more into such content.
"father send me and the glory be mine, that not one soul shall be lost, and surely i will do it" or something to that effect. treating everyone as god's children didn't work for the devil the first time so he tried something different.
Let’s say that you’re right. I don’t begrudge you your belief. The problem with all of this division is that it’s distracting us from being followers of Christ. In my opinion, division has no place in a Christ-centered life. I genuinely wish you well.
@@kristinecase8602 I recommend looking up Don Bradley - to say that he has done a lot of research on this topic would be an understatement. He's probably more versed in early church polygamy than anyone else. I highly recommend looking into some of his findings, very interesting and honestly - in my experience - faith promoting stuff.
8:23 I’m going to assume you are not saying this on behalf of Mormons or the church. This would be openly admitting that they are politically polarizing.
Very well done. I know that I have been guilty of toying with gnostic ideas myself, and interestingly as you pointed out, temple attendance and the "primary answers" pull me out every time. Thanks for making this!
Pure religion certainly does have many hidden truths, mysteries, that we are commanded to seek out and treasure. I see a key difference as shown by the Brethren over the years that there is generally a sense of reverence, respect, and restraint in divulging sacred knowledge. Gnostic beliefs, however, have a quality of perverse pleasure in deconstructing others’ previously held views. Admittedly, it *is* cool when my views are challenged in interesting ways, but being challenged by new information is not the same as being challenged by truth.
Recently learned that the mom of a friend of mine is a huge proponent of the Joseph Smith/Polygamy cabal. This video is a great explanation of the dangers of that kind of thinking. Thank you for the effort you put into this video.
You. Freaking. Rock. Thanks for this video! I've recently been really loving and coming back to the idea of plain and precious truth. If something takes an entire gnostic cabal, mental gymnastics, or general "intellectualism" to justify, I pretty much know right away that it's wrong. I love the simplicity of the gospel of Jesus Christ. So glad people like you spread these precious truths. Keep fighting for common sense and real truth and light!
Am glad I'm non-intellectual and I can still "make it" even if I'm a dim-wit. Isaiah 35: 8-10. I cannot imagine a God requiring people to be smart intellectuals in order to "make it." That is ine reason why I find truth. " _..by the power of The Holy Ghost_" so compelling.
This video is great! Now I know the secret truth and it creates enmity against . . . Nobody. I have to stay true, serve, improve, follow Christ and love others, even their shortcomings? Oh, so it's not a secret? Well it was a seriously well done video. Share it, we need more like this!
If you want to form a spiritual and intellectual immunity to any gnostic ideas, remember that they say all material reality and the Creator of them are bad automatically. This is a mechanism to erode the victims' sense making abilities, thus creating a perverse direction of their sense of 'Should'. God made Heaven and Earth and it was Good! We were made in God's image, male and female! Christ died and rose again In The Flesh, for Heaven and Earth met!
Great vid. However, I’ve now started a cabal of secret knowledge that declares that the text of this is written by Dan Ellsworth. We shun non believers.
The problem is that the current LDS church itself is somehow considered immune from this. There is pride in thinking that an organization itself can never fall. The longest running church/group that did not fall to pride in the Book of Mormon is 4th Nephi, lasting around 200-230 years after thousands of people personally witnessed Christ and even had the 3 Nephites with them, yet even this group all fell away. Here we are after nearly the same amount of time, with only one man physically seeing Christ (compared to thousands) thinking that we are somehow better and immune to this. Mormon 8: 36. .. and your churches, yea, even every one, have become polluted because of the pride of your hearts. 37 For behold, ye do love money, and your substance, and your fine apparel, and the adorning of your churches, more than ye love the poor and the needy, the sick and the afflicted. 2 Nephi 28: 12 Because of pride, and because of false teachers, and false doctrine, their churches have become corrupted, and their churches are lifted up; because of pride they are puffed up. 13 They rob the poor because of their fine sanctuaries; they rob the poor because of their fine clothing; and they persecute the meek and the poor in heart, because in their pride they are puffed up. 14 They wear stiff necks and high heads; yea, and because of pride, and wickedness, and abominations, and whoredoms, they have all gone astray save it be a few, who are the humble followers of Christ; nevertheless, they are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men. The Book of Mormon is a book directed to the LDS, and yet they think that writings therein like this apply only to other groups and churches.
I have only one issue with the video; the polygamy example. Members have to choose which prophet lied, Smith (hiding it from his wife and members) or Young, about polygamy. It’s interesting that Emma, up to her death, maintained Joseph never practiced polygamy. If members can stay true and faithful to the church believing Joseph lied, they can also be true and faithful believing Young lied.
Nah, not really a problem. I know Don Bradley spoke about it in one of his interviews (I've seen several, but don't recall which. Try the Stephen Jones one first).
I consider myself a non-intellectual intellectual. That means that I don't conform to the culture of intellectualism, but thoroughly enjoy intellectual conversations. I love this video!!!
This. Oh. My. Gosh. This is exactly why I left a faithful discord server. Other people’s intellectualism over certain topics is what drove me away from being a moderator there. Too many people buying into too many scholarly ideas. I think people are also conflating the religion of ancient Israel with the one we practice now, and that couldn’t be further from the truth. It has the same principles, yes, but our worship is nothing like theirs due to the difference of culture, and it’s because of certain people’s attitudes over it that I think that them staying separate is a very good thing. People can talk about how cool certain discoveries are all the time, but when other people start taking those discoveries and replacing their own religion with those discoveries is where I draw the line. I’m so frikking glad that you’re calling this out. This is _exactly_ what they need.
You, just like most other people who try to discredit polygamy denial, generalize the group as a whole. There is certainly a spectrum within that movement. Do you also realize that some of the key historians in this space are starting recognize that there are many parts of the polygamy narrative that do need to be revisited, because they don’t hold up to scrutiny?
Like Cheryl Bruno? Yes, but she also said she thinks that Joseph Smith did practice polygamy. It's always good to re-examine the evidence we have. The author of this essay is correct about the main group of polygamy deniers. You may not hold their exact views but his point still applies. The end fruit of polygamy deniers that go on to denounce other important things like temples is division and apostacy.
I probably could have elaborated a bit more. My point was less about the various theories around polygamy and more around the enmity that forms within certain gnostic ideas. Of course not everyone who holds to that theory is aligning themselves with a cabal. But as soon as someone starts villainizing others, that’s where the line gets crossed. I think there’s always room for respectful and faith-affirming discussion around various topics, where people can disagree and still consider each other friends.
@@cubmaster1028 Yes Cheryl Bruno, Todd Compton, Don Bradley, Patrick Mason. They are still hold that Joseph did practice polygamy but agree that there are key parts of the narrative that need to be revisited and potentially updated. I have personally studied all sides of this argument and I’m not convinced yet either way. I still hold to the restoration, temples, the Book of Mormon etc but I do not believe in polygamy. I think it is possible that it will go the way of the priesthood ban at some point.
I'm not LDS (just fell down the M*rmon UA-cam rabbit hole out of curiosity) but I really appreciate the core message of what is being communicated. Unquestioning closed mindedness in anything is often dangerous and harmful. We can agree on that. Thanks for making this.
We must “feast upon the words of Christ”. The more we pray, study, and go to church, we will have a greater ability to identify doctrine, receive revelation, and come closer to Christ.
So, you addressed this in the video, but there's still a question I have about how you distinguish between true religion and gnostic cabals. It seems that the way you define "gnostic cabal" could have included the early restored church, since much of our doctrine countered traditional Christian concepts and we recruited heavily. The same can be said for many of the different branches of Christianity. I share this concern because I foresee a potential rebuttal too this video by critics being, "Well, if we are a gnostic cabal then you are too!" How do you distinguish this?
So I’m doing a high school project, could anyone give me a source for that chart of anachronisms?
I am so happy that I am a total idiot. Make dealing with this much easier. 1 Corinthians 2:2. Great videos friend. Thanks!
Antis on Reddit still trying to damage control the horses to this very day will never not be funny. That’s the hill they’ve chosen to die on.
This is both hilarious and mind blowing. Great video.
soo glad I subscribed.
This was great.
This is so informative and faith promoting, particularly now, with so much disinformation flooding us online. Please make more
This guy is awesome. Love the content dude! Keep it up!
This is sooo epic! Keep it up
This is exactly how I feel about the crusade that some people seem to be going on against Josiah. I can understand the idea that some plain and precious things were removed from scripture, but I feel like some people are really looking beyond the mark and being very speculative as to exactly what those things are. They come up with their own conclusions and imply that we should throw out entire books of scripture as unreliable.
Dawggg I jst luv u! Good vid!
And satan can make good things look bad and bad things look good. He loves to accuse those who are right and truth.
“Dart-mowth” 🤨
Ah, okay, so I just discovered a cool new idea. I think I will test out the concept of Gnostic ideas by talking with my pears about it. Then, if any of my other preconceived notions contradict this, I will purify them so that they align with this novel new concept you provided. Afterwards, I will start recruiting others into believing in the existence of Gnostic ideas. Am I doing it right? On a serious note, I did enjoy this video, and your previous video before that. 2.3 subs with just two videos? I could only dream of that. Continue doing the lords work. Also, will you ever get into talking about other anti-LDS channels? I have tried looking at the content of other, similar "anti-LDS debunking" channels, but they don't seem to cover the more substantive criticisms of the church. Have you ever watched the Mormon Informant, or GLM (which stands for "God Loves Mormons")? I realize now that they could be the product of gnostic pride, however I think it would do great to get more into such content.
Don’t know. I’m just trying to convey ideas that are most interesting to me at any given time.
Love the channel! Keep up the good work, and thank you for what you are doing.
"father send me and the glory be mine, that not one soul shall be lost, and surely i will do it" or something to that effect. treating everyone as god's children didn't work for the devil the first time so he tried something different.
This channel has me MORE!!!ing harder than Kylo Ren at a Luke Skywalker Slideshow
Too bad you don’t understand that JS was not a polygamist. I will never listen to another video you make.
Let’s say that you’re right. I don’t begrudge you your belief. The problem with all of this division is that it’s distracting us from being followers of Christ. In my opinion, division has no place in a Christ-centered life. I genuinely wish you well.
@@kristinecase8602 I recommend looking up Don Bradley - to say that he has done a lot of research on this topic would be an understatement. He's probably more versed in early church polygamy than anyone else. I highly recommend looking into some of his findings, very interesting and honestly - in my experience - faith promoting stuff.
I don't say Goose Juice nearly enough!
8:23 I’m going to assume you are not saying this on behalf of Mormons or the church. This would be openly admitting that they are politically polarizing.
Very well done. I know that I have been guilty of toying with gnostic ideas myself, and interestingly as you pointed out, temple attendance and the "primary answers" pull me out every time. Thanks for making this!
Same here. I wrote this for myself as much as anyone. Nice to know we’re in the same boat.
Pure religion certainly does have many hidden truths, mysteries, that we are commanded to seek out and treasure. I see a key difference as shown by the Brethren over the years that there is generally a sense of reverence, respect, and restraint in divulging sacred knowledge. Gnostic beliefs, however, have a quality of perverse pleasure in deconstructing others’ previously held views. Admittedly, it *is* cool when my views are challenged in interesting ways, but being challenged by new information is not the same as being challenged by truth.
Well said!
🤘
🤘
Recently learned that the mom of a friend of mine is a huge proponent of the Joseph Smith/Polygamy cabal. This video is a great explanation of the dangers of that kind of thinking. Thank you for the effort you put into this video.
Nehemiah 5:7 Jeremiah 4:10 if you see it you can change your mindset. Genesis 3:13
You. Freaking. Rock. Thanks for this video! I've recently been really loving and coming back to the idea of plain and precious truth. If something takes an entire gnostic cabal, mental gymnastics, or general "intellectualism" to justify, I pretty much know right away that it's wrong. I love the simplicity of the gospel of Jesus Christ. So glad people like you spread these precious truths. Keep fighting for common sense and real truth and light!
Am glad I'm non-intellectual and I can still "make it" even if I'm a dim-wit. Isaiah 35: 8-10. I cannot imagine a God requiring people to be smart intellectuals in order to "make it." That is ine reason why I find truth. " _..by the power of The Holy Ghost_" so compelling.
This video is great! Now I know the secret truth and it creates enmity against . . . Nobody. I have to stay true, serve, improve, follow Christ and love others, even their shortcomings? Oh, so it's not a secret? Well it was a seriously well done video. Share it, we need more like this!
If you want to form a spiritual and intellectual immunity to any gnostic ideas, remember that they say all material reality and the Creator of them are bad automatically. This is a mechanism to erode the victims' sense making abilities, thus creating a perverse direction of their sense of 'Should'. God made Heaven and Earth and it was Good! We were made in God's image, male and female! Christ died and rose again In The Flesh, for Heaven and Earth met!
This may all be true but I still think the moon landings were a hoax. 😂
Lol
What denomination are you?
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Could you get into more specific examples of who you would say falls into a gnostic cabal? (I mean, yeah… names and why you think they fall into that)
If you want to recognize a gnostic cabal, just look for groups of people who are demonizing others. Chances are, it’s a cabal.
Great vid. However, I’ve now started a cabal of secret knowledge that declares that the text of this is written by Dan Ellsworth. We shun non believers.
I have a genuine question, you say the fruits of the church are good - what about the bad fruits? Do you not see any?
I see lots of bad fruit from members of all churches. God trusts humans to do His work and we don’t always do it well.
The problem is that the current LDS church itself is somehow considered immune from this. There is pride in thinking that an organization itself can never fall. The longest running church/group that did not fall to pride in the Book of Mormon is 4th Nephi, lasting around 200-230 years after thousands of people personally witnessed Christ and even had the 3 Nephites with them, yet even this group all fell away. Here we are after nearly the same amount of time, with only one man physically seeing Christ (compared to thousands) thinking that we are somehow better and immune to this. Mormon 8: 36. .. and your churches, yea, even every one, have become polluted because of the pride of your hearts. 37 For behold, ye do love money, and your substance, and your fine apparel, and the adorning of your churches, more than ye love the poor and the needy, the sick and the afflicted. 2 Nephi 28: 12 Because of pride, and because of false teachers, and false doctrine, their churches have become corrupted, and their churches are lifted up; because of pride they are puffed up. 13 They rob the poor because of their fine sanctuaries; they rob the poor because of their fine clothing; and they persecute the meek and the poor in heart, because in their pride they are puffed up. 14 They wear stiff necks and high heads; yea, and because of pride, and wickedness, and abominations, and whoredoms, they have all gone astray save it be a few, who are the humble followers of Christ; nevertheless, they are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men. The Book of Mormon is a book directed to the LDS, and yet they think that writings therein like this apply only to other groups and churches.
I have only one issue with the video; the polygamy example. Members have to choose which prophet lied, Smith (hiding it from his wife and members) or Young, about polygamy. It’s interesting that Emma, up to her death, maintained Joseph never practiced polygamy. If members can stay true and faithful to the church believing Joseph lied, they can also be true and faithful believing Young lied.
Nah, not really a problem. I know Don Bradley spoke about it in one of his interviews (I've seen several, but don't recall which. Try the Stephen Jones one first).
Yeah this channel is gonna grow fast
I consider myself a non-intellectual intellectual. That means that I don't conform to the culture of intellectualism, but thoroughly enjoy intellectual conversations. I love this video!!!
This. Oh. My. Gosh. This is exactly why I left a faithful discord server. Other people’s intellectualism over certain topics is what drove me away from being a moderator there. Too many people buying into too many scholarly ideas. I think people are also conflating the religion of ancient Israel with the one we practice now, and that couldn’t be further from the truth. It has the same principles, yes, but our worship is nothing like theirs due to the difference of culture, and it’s because of certain people’s attitudes over it that I think that them staying separate is a very good thing. People can talk about how cool certain discoveries are all the time, but when other people start taking those discoveries and replacing their own religion with those discoveries is where I draw the line. I’m so frikking glad that you’re calling this out. This is _exactly_ what they need.
Great content, I have been studying pride and reading President Bensons talk on Pride, this video has been a great resource to add to my studying 📚
Amen. 🕊️
You, just like most other people who try to discredit polygamy denial, generalize the group as a whole. There is certainly a spectrum within that movement. Do you also realize that some of the key historians in this space are starting recognize that there are many parts of the polygamy narrative that do need to be revisited, because they don’t hold up to scrutiny?
Before we proceed, in what ways are you willing to admit what you know could be wrong? (not saying it is, just how it could be)
Like Cheryl Bruno? Yes, but she also said she thinks that Joseph Smith did practice polygamy. It's always good to re-examine the evidence we have. The author of this essay is correct about the main group of polygamy deniers. You may not hold their exact views but his point still applies. The end fruit of polygamy deniers that go on to denounce other important things like temples is division and apostacy.
I probably could have elaborated a bit more. My point was less about the various theories around polygamy and more around the enmity that forms within certain gnostic ideas. Of course not everyone who holds to that theory is aligning themselves with a cabal. But as soon as someone starts villainizing others, that’s where the line gets crossed. I think there’s always room for respectful and faith-affirming discussion around various topics, where people can disagree and still consider each other friends.
@@cubmaster1028 Yes Cheryl Bruno, Todd Compton, Don Bradley, Patrick Mason. They are still hold that Joseph did practice polygamy but agree that there are key parts of the narrative that need to be revisited and potentially updated. I have personally studied all sides of this argument and I’m not convinced yet either way. I still hold to the restoration, temples, the Book of Mormon etc but I do not believe in polygamy. I think it is possible that it will go the way of the priesthood ban at some point.
@@ohheytherefriend Thank you for clarifying
Aren't you coming across as an LDS intellectual yourself with this video?
Maybe, but I’m not condemning intellectuals. Only gnostic ideas.
So well done. Perfectly describe so many truths I’ve experienced and witnessed in others. Thank you
This video just became the basis for a school assignment for my children… that we home school. Thanks for the material.
I'm not LDS (just fell down the M*rmon UA-cam rabbit hole out of curiosity) but I really appreciate the core message of what is being communicated. Unquestioning closed mindedness in anything is often dangerous and harmful. We can agree on that. Thanks for making this.
I love the perspective. Thanks for the comment.
I will go and do the things the Lord commands!! Not what my aunts boyfriend commands! Such a good video!
We must “feast upon the words of Christ”. The more we pray, study, and go to church, we will have a greater ability to identify doctrine, receive revelation, and come closer to Christ.
That notification though 🤭😜❤️🔥
So, you addressed this in the video, but there's still a question I have about how you distinguish between true religion and gnostic cabals. It seems that the way you define "gnostic cabal" could have included the early restored church, since much of our doctrine countered traditional Christian concepts and we recruited heavily. The same can be said for many of the different branches of Christianity. I share this concern because I foresee a potential rebuttal too this video by critics being, "Well, if we are a gnostic cabal then you are too!" How do you distinguish this?
I just responded to this question in a pinned comment. It’s a great question and I appreciate you asking it.