When I say "should" it is from the perspective of the doctrine in 1960 and not a value judgement on whether these methods are the best given modern developments in house clearing tactics. Here's the link to the manual I got off ebay: www.battleorder.org/post/uk-60-infpam Also, most of the b-roll is from the Army film "Fighting in Villages" from 1979: ua-cam.com/video/VDSih8urocM/v-deo.html Another relevent film is "House to House Fighting" from 1943. Doctrine in 1943 was virtually the same as in 1960: ua-cam.com/video/iF2TPR2T6CA/v-deo.html
Also used rifle grenades fired from the SLR. M72A2 LAWs were shown in the video, but not discussed. The streets would have vehicles and car bombs and molotov cocktails were used. The British Army used the Brick concept in Northern Ireland
I really like these old MOUT tactics. They're obviously a lot less complicated and sophisticated than modern ones, with many fewer battle drills and SOPs and such, but you can still see the enormous effort, planning and wisdom put into them.
Agreed, I’ve heard people make the argument that infantry in the 2000’s and 2010’s got too focused on room clearing like a swat team rather than actually conventional urban fighting where you toss in a grenade and spray the room
@@wcm8909 As one of the comments wrote below, civilian casualty risks, rapid grenade depletion, and risk of friendly fire caused these older tactics to be rethought. SWAT-like tactics were adopted, since local police faced the same kinds of risks (with the exception of grenade depletion, I would think). But I agree--MOUT rapidly devolves into chaos, without very strict command/control, which doesn't happen in most urban battles.
It makes us feel old when we realise that people who were in their late 30s during the early 1980s are now in their early 80s, and that the older millenials are now middle aged parents, who will be telling their kids stories about playing the Halo trilogy instead of stories of watching the original Star Wars in cinemas.
It's worse than that. It's when you're on a corporate away day, at a military museum and before you and the world is the super sneaky equipment that you were NEVER EVER to talk about. Worse still the whole of the accounts / billing department now have a better understanding of how it worked than you did when you signed for it. Still there's the bit of the tour where they show you something powered up, you jump over the barrier and run the test programme 😂😂
@@johnnyjohn-johnson7738 "older millenials" are already becoming granparents. Did for some time. Millenilals are 1981-2000 ie Millenium. We make up majority of tax payers, parents, war veterans and depressed losers around the world;) Oldest millenials are 43 now. P.S.: Gen Z are 2001-2020 Gen X are 1961-1980 Baby Boomers are 1941-1960 And GG were 1921-1940. This is why I don't get all the hate towards 3 year olds that make up Gen A...
I remember doing FIBUA (Fighting in Built Up Areas) in the late 80s. I became stuck twice crawling through the sewer's. Sewers look nice and large until you have to do it in full fighting order. Several buckled mess tins and some bruised kidneys got me unstuck. Getting repeatedly booted in the back hard enough to buckle my gear to unstick me, was not fun.
Ah, the classic FISH & CHIPS manual (Fighting In Someone's House & Causing Havoc In Public Spaces) - though I'm not sure when those nicknames came into play, to be honest!
The 1945 version is hilarious as it says urban warfare isn't much different from regular combat. Apart from a few small factors. Then it procude to give you 30 odd 2 page "differences"
In 1943 there was a whole manual dedicated to just fighting in built up areas, which was combined with the 1960 version of the infantry platoon manual as just a 7-page section
Fighting in Built up Areas, also known as FIBUA, also known as Fish and Chips. Fighting in Someones House and Causing Havok in Peoples Streets. Interesting how some things have changed, while others really haven't. Wouldbe intresting to talk to a Veteran and see to what degree the seeming lack of flexibility was doctrinal, and to what degree it is down to just being a pamphlet, rather than the lived experience of troops.
Reminds of something I read during the Vietnam conflict where the elite southern Vietnamese ARVN rangers had to clear an affluent urban area in Saigon of Vietcong fighters and had to skillfully use sledgehammers and helicopter dropped smoke grenades.
Fun Fact: Many of the Marine officers during the Tet Offensive watched the British "House to House Fighting" video as part of the MOUT training early in their career.
@@johnnyjohn-johnson7738 There probably are but the Soviets weren't so generous at the type of training they're willing to give their Vietnamese Allies because for example they only gave them the most basic knowledge of armour like how to drive it and not much else about tactics.
A nostalgic trip down Memory Lane (thankfully no longer covered by enfilade fire! 😉). Your videos are truly excellent and the armed forces would do well to use your skills for training soldiers. I was a Para in the 1980s/90s. As standard, we used to carry full size sledgehammers and (equally long) bolt cutters as part of our platoon "house breaking kit". Blokes were having to put the sledgehammers in their weapon sleeves with their rifle for the jump, then just slot the sledgehammer/cutters behind the side pouch of the bergen for the (often long) TAB to objective. From memory, every (?) man carried a toggle rope, and some carried the suspension line (from the jump) in its stead. Wire cutters and gloves were issued to sections, usually 2 to a section. Grapples were a nightmare to pack for a jump, they could do absurd damage to yourself or your kit... Typically issued to the lightest guy in the section or the best climber. You always wore a helmet when throwing that thing into an upstairs window and be ready to leg it out of the way if it missed or bounced back... Once up, the first man would stamp the spikes of the hook into the window sill to secure it. One exercise, we jumped at the east end of Salisbury Plain and tactically marched across it to the west of it, clearing positions enroute. With my mate, Darren, despite having fully laden bergens we had the joy of carrying a two storey wooden ladder for ALL of that distance! In the early 1990s, we had purpose made assault ladders which came in something like 4 or 5 foot sections. Good kit. The "lookout" at 5:05 is a new term for me. We called him the "link man". He was the link between the section (clearing group) and gun (cover fire group). It was also down to him to resup the Gun link (belted ammo) that was carried by the rest of the section, if the gun had to remain in position for longer than anticipated.
what's some cool acronyms/abbreviations relating to urban warfare??, I saw some cool acronyms in some old Manuel from the 80s, POBE/POBEX: point of building entrance, point of building exit, POPE/POPEX: point of perimeter entrance/exit. TOW: top of wall, etc
Although this is somewhat similar, I still crave a Parachute Regiment video. Attempt 3 of asking Battle Order to do an evolution of the organization of the British paratrooper squad, since its formation in the 1940s, to the 1960s, to the Falklands War in 1982, and the current Parachute Regiment. Also, nice background music, it's Falaise Road from COD 3.
I read a bit about the Falklands War so I can share I know about the Parachute Regiment of that era, from what I've read about 2 Para they had two interesting characteristics to their organisation, one of them being a C comapny, a 50 man patrol company (which patrolled as independent fireteams) who provided reconnaissance before an attack, observation posts in the defence, and set up ambushes to cover the movement of their battalion (and was used as a rifle platoon towards the end of Goose Green to partially replace A company). And each rifle platoon's section had two 4 man fireteams instead of the usual asymmetric rifle and gun groups of the day, it was similar to the current British fireteams (which have an integrated section commander leading the section and one of the two teams, unlike the US which had a squad leader independent of the two teams) but with a different armament, 3 soldiers had a FAL, and the gunner had a FN MAG, if memory serves some of the riflemen had a grenade launcher, the platoons also had a small weapon's squad which included a 2 inch mortar and could possibly be equipped with other weapons such as an extra medium MG and grenade launcher.
@buckplug2423 I believe I saw that somewhere too, just don't know where. they had an L4A1 and an L7 GPMG with the L4A1 attached to the rifle group iirc
As a tank crewman we all carried the smg.A simple weapon ideal for tank crews but if you were ever in situation where you needed it then you were already screwed. Luckily we had the option of the co ax and or cmdrs gpmg should you have to dismount from a damaged tank. We usually padlocked them away in a tool bin. But they are compact when folded up and we rarely even thought about having to actually use it in anger. Why bother when you have a FO 120mm gun and two gpmgs.
The FIBUA doctrines hadn't changed much - if at all - in the 90's, when I was in the Territorial Army (T.A.). I still have winces at some of the memories of mishaps in Tin City at Longmoor 🤣
Generally a lot of veterans say no, they were mostly issued to those who were thought didn't need a full power rifle. However, as soon as the troubles in Northern Ireland started up, a lot of officers and quite a few soldiers privately bought pistols (Automatics or revolvers) and holsters. Needless to say I think that shows the concern about only being issued with an SLR amongst the troops. Apparently it was quite a sight to see "Modern" soldiers wearing big revolvers in holsters, and then quite a few got caught out by new legislation when coming back to the mainland!
@@TopHatHat what kind of legislation did they face versus north Ireland? American here but I do know Ireland UK is more permissive than mainland UK such as self defense is a reason to own a gun, plus handguns are legal. I’ve read contradictory things on wether centerfire semi automatic rifles can be owned? However I thought back then handguns weren’t a big deal in the UK? I just want to know what happened to the men?
@@danielcurtis1434 The irony of Northern Ireland having the looser gun laws despite it's recent history of rampant terrorism (and the rest of the country having the stricter laws despite never having a serious "gun problem") never ceases to amaze me. You'd think that The Troubles would've been used as a pretext for a complete gun ban by the nanny state politicians, but life is stranger than fiction I guess.
@@danielcurtis1434 The anecdote comes from the autobiography of Sir Richard Dannatt "Leading from the Front", ill recount it here with paraphrasing so there is a bit of context. The year was 1973/4. "I flew from Manchester to Belfast, thoughtfully putting my .38 S&W in my suitcase... I noticed my suitcases were being searched. When my turn came, I said quietly to the seracher that he might like to open my suitcase away from the general public... and by the way "Here are my Army ID card and firearms certificate"... A Royal Ulster Constabulary Sergeant looked at my paperwork and thanked me... Some while later two young men in trenchcoats were going around looking for someone in the departures lounge... I pulled my newspaper over my nose... "Excuse me, Sir, are you Lieutenant Dannnatt of the Green Howards?"... A conversation ensued relating to my revolver, the law, army regulations and what changes had been made in the last few months." (Pages 61-62) He was made to give up his revolver, although he is vague about the reasons I assume it was due as much to the army prohibiting privately owned firearms due to forensics reasons (Northern Ireland was a situation where every bullet would likely have to be accounted for) as civilian law. You can read it on the Internet archive, it's a very good book, i've read it twice now.
British soldiers with thick moustaches look like Captain Price (as well as the real world John McAleese) the same way how African American marines/soldiers with patrol caps remind us of Sgt Johnson (and his Alien's inspiration Apone, played by real Marine Al Matthews). I think that every military has a common "look" amongst their personnel.
@akriegguardsman only if you know its coming. That's a learned adaptation that comes from a longer conflict. Also, the hook doesn't totally defeat the defence - as it sticks to the mesh on the window - without the mesh the grenade would go into the room and perhaps do more damage.
The British perfected this in Northern Ireland and have trained many other countries including Israel who is using it for anything they haven’t turned into rubble.
Interesting. Thanks for sharing. From the comfort of my armchair I can make two observations: 1. If I was defending a house I would have no doubt I was sitting in a death-trap. 2. If I was a assaulting a house I would have no doubt I was entering a death-trap. Hmm . . . urban warfare is nasty.
I don't think it was an accident, in House to House Fighting (1943) there is a moment where the ceiling of the first room gets shot on purpose before the section proceeds through the building.
Looks like one bloke remembered the technique or was recruit trained elsewhere. Or it was a "ND"... When we couldn't gain entry from the roof or an upstairs window, we used to have to enter via a ground floor window and work our way upwards. We'd routinely shoot into the ceilings of the captured floor before assaulting up to the next level. Also, upon sight, into the ceilings near stairwells and attic accesses in case there were any enemy persons waiting to ambush us or drop a grenade. I don't recall other units doing this when WE were the people defending upstairs. I don't know if it's in the manual but it was basic Para Regt doctrine.
The manuals here also mentioned demolishing the floor between levels of a building and using ladders or piled furniture to create new paths between floors.
I Did a lot of urban areas fighting training in my army class , and event after for drill , it was fun and exciting fighting in urban areas but it was hell although i did "survived" a lot i still wouldn't love to be in any urban combat 5 hours of this is already stressful and you dont see the time passing by
I fought in the Battle of Copehill Down... this is exactly how we were taught 15 years ago. It may not have been in your pamphlet but within each building the SC/2IC is making a mental map of the floor. As each room is cleared the rifleman describes the layout of the room including windows and doors, which helps him direct the flow of the attack. It's both brutal and exhausting, and realistically a section won't take more than a house or two.
There was a clip at the very beginning , which I kinda recall seeing on an official army northern Ireland video of similar 70s 90s era . Though that may have been in Germany
Can you make a video on defensive urban tactics? Theres tons of stuff out there about assaulting buildings and all that, but I hardly see anything about how to defend an urban position
try applying these tactics to a city like Barcelona. .....or, anywhere in South America. every city block is a fortress 100 meters wide. good luck getting through hallways and flank routes, if you find any at all... the moment you breach one, you're effectively in an interior courtyard surrounded by enemy lookouts.
Given this was primarily tactics developed to fight the soviets in Europe I don’t think it was a major concern. As with tactics Terran and the enemy dictate it
See if the Israelis can lend you a D-9 You'll suddenly find an access route the enemy didnt know about. Teddy bears go where they want to. If your feeling cheaper the Syrians found engineers UR-77 mine clearing line charges did the job just as well.
Interesting to compare the MALAYAN EMERGENCY versus the IRISH TROUBLES 20 years later. Malaysian Chinese failed because China had not yet set up to support them in the 50s unlike the help they gave to the Viet Minh at Dien Bien Phu.
Maybe you could do a video on greek, spanish and italian squad organisation next? I can't find the modern squad organisation of either countries anywhere
Hi! Love your videos. You've covered some EU armies, talked about modernization plans of NATO countries in the realities of war that we see in Ukraine today. Would you be interested in looking into Germany, to compare its current military and structure, as well as its plans on modernization? Last year, a bill was passed to allocate 4 billion euros for its development. Thanks!
I'm not sure if it is the constant nagging of NATO alarmists in America or an actual danger of instability introduced by Russia that has proven to be more effective driver of European defence preparations after the cold war. Everyone not insane in Europe seems to start taking these matters seriously.
@@abraham2172 People woke up to reality. There has been since the cold war an unusual attitude in Europe where it wasn't uncommon for people to actually think that war would finally be history, if not everywhere then at least in Europe. Now the harsh reality has become obvious to everyone. People may or may not care about war but war certainly cares about people.
woow this is soo similar to Indian Army down to section org until early 2000s. Its slight changed for CI units , similar to US Army. For regular Indian army units , its still the same.
The Troubles was one of the influences that led to adopting the fire team concept to replace rifle group / gun group. Basically having "bricks" of 4 men who would provide 360 degree security within the team
During The Troubles, British troops used to patrol down a single street as one platoon, but it got changed to them patrolling as separate bricks (fireteams).
The biggest threat was left out from their manual. I bet when you make the video updating the 2000-present manual it will be covered. The old tactics were so bad. The first and biggest threat not talked about is COTB...civilians on the battlefield. Soldiers are not monsters who just want to kill everything they see. They are normally the best of a country. They serve to protect and defend their country. Seeing an innocent in danger will put their entire unit in hazard because that will halt the patrol due to basic human nature if the soldiers are not trained enough to eliminate any threat before other considerations. The old tactics were also bad because they would send a section into a building to clear it and have no security for the areas already cleared so that an enemy could just roll in behind or through a different door or window so they can ambush you from a previously cleared room. Modern tactics also require you not use high explosive or fragmentation grenades while clearing rooms or buildings because of a few concerns such as: natural gas ovens and stoves along or furnaces or heating oil appliances ignite in secondary unintended explosions, sheet rock walling or panelling does not stop shrapnel which can injure or kill friendly forces to include the guy who threw the grenade, you don't like killing innocent people who could be in the room, and high explosives kick up a lot of dust and debris which cause choking and vision hazards. Even flash bangs can be an issue when used because of the dust though their use is preferred if at all possible as their utility out weigh those concerns. The whole spray and pray were solid tactics before the military tactics evolved to the point they are now. The point in the past was to seize a city and ensure your forces could move through the area without casualties as they continued to push towards the final objective of the conflict. It was more about fighting in areas where civilians had previously fled from. Built up areas were seen as tactical problems in a strategic goal. Now we know civilians do not flee an entire city and there was never a city were two forces could just have a free for all battle with no other concerns.
Does anyone know where I can find British field manuals and handbooks about urban warfare? You can buy American ones online but I’d like British ones, dated 1960-2000 preferably
It's great that you made a video about this. I would like to see a similar one on the development of urban combat since the Great War, or at least how the Germans and Soviets perfected urban combat during World War II.
and it all goes to shit once you start taking casualties. mines booby traps granades down drains six foot pickets on the stairs etc etc it's hellish. resupply through the sewers oh it's tuff you got to strip down your kit and pack every pocket with ammo!
You could probably implement some of the principles but don't think you can replicate everything. You are much more limited in what you can do in Squad compared to real life. One of the guys in the Discord recently commented that doing CQB in games like Ready or Not or Squad is arguably more difficult because you don't get total freedom, you're much less flexible in video games than in real life and AI and people in video games are not nearly as risk averse in games as in real life.
For video games, you dont need to do fancy stuff. Just the basics (Pie'ing rooms before entering, using grenades before pushing, and pushing into rooms quickly with your teammates while prefiring corners) is enough to utterly decimate most players
When I say "should" it is from the perspective of the doctrine in 1960 and not a value judgement on whether these methods are the best given modern developments in house clearing tactics. Here's the link to the manual I got off ebay: www.battleorder.org/post/uk-60-infpam
Also, most of the b-roll is from the Army film "Fighting in Villages" from 1979: ua-cam.com/video/VDSih8urocM/v-deo.html
Another relevent film is "House to House Fighting" from 1943. Doctrine in 1943 was virtually the same as in 1960: ua-cam.com/video/iF2TPR2T6CA/v-deo.html
I hope that you upload more old school infantry manuals, even if they're not a perfect scan I'd still love to read them anyway.
Also used rifle grenades fired from the SLR. M72A2 LAWs were shown in the video, but not discussed. The streets would have vehicles and car bombs and molotov cocktails were used. The British Army used the Brick concept in Northern Ireland
FISH and CHIPS.
Make a vídeo about french foreign legion 13th Demi-brigade
Can you make a video on the weapons of South African troops?
I really like these old MOUT tactics. They're obviously a lot less complicated and sophisticated than modern ones, with many fewer battle drills and SOPs and such, but you can still see the enormous effort, planning and wisdom put into them.
Agreed, I’ve heard people make the argument that infantry in the 2000’s and 2010’s got too focused on room clearing like a swat team rather than actually conventional urban fighting where you toss in a grenade and spray the room
@@wcm8909 proabaly due to a focus on COIN.
@@wcm8909It largely devolves into that in chaos anyway
@wcm8909 SWAT flashes the room and spraying without going in will miss people
@@wcm8909 As one of the comments wrote below, civilian casualty risks, rapid grenade depletion, and risk of friendly fire caused these older tactics to be rethought. SWAT-like tactics were adopted, since local police faced the same kinds of risks (with the exception of grenade depletion, I would think). But I agree--MOUT rapidly devolves into chaos, without very strict command/control, which doesn't happen in most urban battles.
Great video mate!
Fun fact myself (and a mate) actually paid for that Fighting in Villages footage to be digitised at the IWM.
It was me I was that mate ❤
Would you like a cookie?
Glad you did it’s fascinating
@@willsta21 always
Tnx boys.
The fact that 60 years ago isn't 1940's anymore hurts me on spiritual level 😅
It messes with my brain unit
It makes us feel old when we realise that people who were in their late 30s during the early 1980s are now in their early 80s, and that the older millenials are now middle aged parents, who will be telling their kids stories about playing the Halo trilogy instead of stories of watching the original Star Wars in cinemas.
I feel yo bruv, when I was in ,60 years ago would have been the 30s and I'm getting old DISGRACEFULLY lol.
It's worse than that. It's when you're on a corporate away day, at a military museum and before you and the world is the super sneaky equipment that you were NEVER EVER to talk about. Worse still the whole of the accounts / billing department now have a better understanding of how it worked than you did when you signed for it.
Still there's the bit of the tour where they show you something powered up, you jump over the barrier and run the test programme 😂😂
@@johnnyjohn-johnson7738 "older millenials" are already becoming granparents. Did for some time. Millenilals are 1981-2000 ie Millenium. We make up majority of tax payers, parents, war veterans and depressed losers around the world;) Oldest millenials are 43 now.
P.S.: Gen Z are 2001-2020
Gen X are 1961-1980
Baby Boomers are 1941-1960
And GG were 1921-1940.
This is why I don't get all the hate towards 3 year olds that make up Gen A...
Arrr yes the L1A1,the perfect urban warfare rifle, it’s length really helps you dominate a room.
One reason that the Australian ADF troops like the AusStyre, you can swap out the barrels.
It's longer so you can bayonet your enemy first...
... when it function.
All the 7.62 NATO battle rifles were a terrible idea.
Crazy what the Provos could do with the Armalite and ammonium nitrate.
I remember doing FIBUA (Fighting in Built Up Areas) in the late 80s. I became stuck twice crawling through the sewer's. Sewers look nice and large until you have to do it in full fighting order. Several buckled mess tins and some bruised kidneys got me unstuck. Getting repeatedly booted in the back hard enough to buckle my gear to unstick me, was not fun.
Ah, the classic FISH & CHIPS manual (Fighting In Someone's House & Causing Havoc In Public Spaces) - though I'm not sure when those nicknames came into play, to be honest!
The 1945 version is hilarious as it says urban warfare isn't much different from regular combat. Apart from a few small factors. Then it procude to give you 30 odd 2 page "differences"
In 1943 there was a whole manual dedicated to just fighting in built up areas, which was combined with the 1960 version of the infantry platoon manual as just a 7-page section
OBUA: operations in built up areas
FISH: fighting in someone’s house
FISK: fighting in someone’s kitchen
Standard Copehill Down banter 😂
Fighting in Built up Areas, also known as FIBUA, also known as Fish and Chips. Fighting in Someones House and Causing Havok in Peoples Streets.
Interesting how some things have changed, while others really haven't. Wouldbe intresting to talk to a Veteran and see to what degree the seeming lack of flexibility was doctrinal, and to what degree it is down to just being a pamphlet, rather than the lived experience of troops.
Training in the Ruhleben FIBUA village in West Berlin was far more exciting than standard exercises in forests. Such a buzz! Even with blanks.
Reminds of something I read during the Vietnam conflict where the elite southern Vietnamese ARVN rangers had to clear an affluent urban area in Saigon of Vietcong fighters and had to skillfully use sledgehammers and helicopter dropped smoke grenades.
Fun Fact: Many of the Marine officers during the Tet Offensive watched the British "House to House Fighting" video as part of the MOUT training early in their career.
@@johnnyjohn-johnson7738 Yes going urban was one of the costliest errors that the NVA and Vietcong ever made in that conflict.
@@markgarrett3647 I wonder if any veterans of Stalingrad acted as MOUT advisers to the Vietnamese Communists?
@@johnnyjohn-johnson7738 There probably are but the Soviets weren't so generous at the type of training they're willing to give their Vietnamese Allies because for example they only gave them the most basic knowledge of armour like how to drive it and not much else about tactics.
@@markgarrett3647 I have never heard about that, were they just untrained in Urban combat?
A nostalgic trip down Memory Lane (thankfully no longer covered by enfilade fire! 😉). Your videos are truly excellent and the armed forces would do well to use your skills for training soldiers.
I was a Para in the 1980s/90s. As standard, we used to carry full size sledgehammers and (equally long) bolt cutters as part of our platoon "house breaking kit". Blokes were having to put the sledgehammers in their weapon sleeves with their rifle for the jump, then just slot the sledgehammer/cutters behind the side pouch of the bergen for the (often long) TAB to objective. From memory, every (?) man carried a toggle rope, and some carried the suspension line (from the jump) in its stead. Wire cutters and gloves were issued to sections, usually 2 to a section.
Grapples were a nightmare to pack for a jump, they could do absurd damage to yourself or your kit... Typically issued to the lightest guy in the section or the best climber. You always wore a helmet when throwing that thing into an upstairs window and be ready to leg it out of the way if it missed or bounced back... Once up, the first man would stamp the spikes of the hook into the window sill to secure it.
One exercise, we jumped at the east end of Salisbury Plain and tactically marched across it to the west of it, clearing positions enroute. With my mate, Darren, despite having fully laden bergens we had the joy of carrying a two storey wooden ladder for ALL of that distance! In the early 1990s, we had purpose made assault ladders which came in something like 4 or 5 foot sections. Good kit.
The "lookout" at 5:05 is a new term for me. We called him the "link man". He was the link between the section (clearing group) and gun (cover fire group). It was also down to him to resup the Gun link (belted ammo) that was carried by the rest of the section, if the gun had to remain in position for longer than anticipated.
Link man sounds like a more intuitive name than lookout for the role, can see why it got changed.
Link man in the Canadian Army as well.
what's some cool acronyms/abbreviations relating to urban warfare??, I saw some cool acronyms in some old Manuel from the 80s, POBE/POBEX: point of building entrance, point of building exit, POPE/POPEX: point of perimeter entrance/exit. TOW: top of wall, etc
Although this is somewhat similar, I still crave a Parachute Regiment video. Attempt 3 of asking Battle Order to do an evolution of the organization of the British paratrooper squad, since its formation in the 1940s, to the 1960s, to the Falklands War in 1982, and the current Parachute Regiment. Also, nice background music, it's Falaise Road from COD 3.
I read a bit about the Falklands War so I can share I know about the Parachute Regiment of that era, from what I've read about 2 Para they had two interesting characteristics to their organisation, one of them being a C comapny, a 50 man patrol company (which patrolled as independent fireteams) who provided reconnaissance before an attack, observation posts in the defence, and set up ambushes to cover the movement of their battalion (and was used as a rifle platoon towards the end of Goose Green to partially replace A company). And each rifle platoon's section had two 4 man fireteams instead of the usual asymmetric rifle and gun groups of the day, it was similar to the current British fireteams (which have an integrated section commander leading the section and one of the two teams, unlike the US which had a squad leader independent of the two teams) but with a different armament, 3 soldiers had a FAL, and the gunner had a FN MAG, if memory serves some of the riflemen had a grenade launcher, the platoons also had a small weapon's squad which included a 2 inch mortar and could possibly be equipped with other weapons such as an extra medium MG and grenade launcher.
Can't talk about the Paras without mentioning what they did in Derry.
@@johnnyjohn-johnson7738 I believe the Paras employed 1 MAG and 1 L4 as squad automatics in the Falklands
@buckplug2423 I believe I saw that somewhere too, just don't know where. they had an L4A1 and an L7 GPMG with the L4A1 attached to the rifle group iirc
I have no idea about layout of mi hip helicopter infantry platoon despite looking
Great video, a lot of this is still being taught in the 21st century, tactics that were developed from Northern Ireland mostly
As a tank crewman we all carried the smg.A simple weapon ideal for tank crews but if you were ever in situation where you needed it then you were already screwed.
Luckily we had the option of the co ax and or cmdrs gpmg should you have to dismount from a damaged tank.
We usually padlocked them away in a tool bin.
But they are compact when folded up and we rarely even thought about having to actually use it in anger.
Why bother when you have a FO 120mm gun and two gpmgs.
@jameslynch7826: Tank drivers were usually issued with pistols as there isn't much room (even for SMGs) in the driver's compartment.
@@paganphil100 Strange that. I served 23 years in the RTR and never saw a Dvr issued with a Pistol
The FIBUA doctrines hadn't changed much - if at all - in the 90's, when I was in the Territorial Army (T.A.). I still have winces at some of the memories of mishaps in Tin City at Longmoor 🤣
This was fascinating. Excellent work!
I grew up in Belfast with British soldiers on our streets daily. This is so relatable.
I love how you put Call of Duty 3 British soundtrack in there really goes with the theme!
Great video. Drones add a whole new dimension now as moving outdoors in general is dangerous.
I hate drones. So dishonourable.
@@warwickscram1656 There is no honor in war
That is an illusion
A lie told to soldiers in order to accept death at the commander's orders
@@warwickscram1656 I hate bow and arrows- so dishonorable.
Did infantry keep any reserve or arms room of sterlings? I bet they would have quickly been scrounged from support troops in a real urban assault.
Generally a lot of veterans say no, they were mostly issued to those who were thought didn't need a full power rifle. However, as soon as the troubles in Northern Ireland started up, a lot of officers and quite a few soldiers privately bought pistols (Automatics or revolvers) and holsters. Needless to say I think that shows the concern about only being issued with an SLR amongst the troops.
Apparently it was quite a sight to see "Modern" soldiers wearing big revolvers in holsters, and then quite a few got caught out by new legislation when coming back to the mainland!
I’m guessing section leaders quickly commandeered Sterlings from drivers and Gustav gunners in quick order.
@@TopHatHat what kind of legislation did they face versus north Ireland? American here but I do know Ireland UK is more permissive than mainland UK such as self defense is a reason to own a gun, plus handguns are legal. I’ve read contradictory things on wether centerfire semi automatic rifles can be owned?
However I thought back then handguns weren’t a big deal in the UK?
I just want to know what happened to the men?
@@danielcurtis1434 The irony of Northern Ireland having the looser gun laws despite it's recent history of rampant terrorism (and the rest of the country having the stricter laws despite never having a serious "gun problem") never ceases to amaze me. You'd think that The Troubles would've been used as a pretext for a complete gun ban by the nanny state politicians, but life is stranger than fiction I guess.
@@danielcurtis1434 The anecdote comes from the autobiography of Sir Richard Dannatt "Leading from the Front", ill recount it here with paraphrasing so there is a bit of context. The year was 1973/4.
"I flew from Manchester to Belfast, thoughtfully putting my .38 S&W in my suitcase... I noticed my suitcases were being searched. When my turn came, I said quietly to the seracher that he might like to open my suitcase away from the general public... and by the way "Here are my Army ID card and firearms certificate"... A Royal Ulster Constabulary Sergeant looked at my paperwork and thanked me... Some while later two young men in trenchcoats were going around looking for someone in the departures lounge... I pulled my newspaper over my nose... "Excuse me, Sir, are you Lieutenant Dannnatt of the Green Howards?"... A conversation ensued relating to my revolver, the law, army regulations and what changes had been made in the last few months." (Pages 61-62)
He was made to give up his revolver, although he is vague about the reasons I assume it was due as much to the army prohibiting privately owned firearms due to forensics reasons (Northern Ireland was a situation where every bullet would likely have to be accounted for) as civilian law.
You can read it on the Internet archive, it's a very good book, i've read it twice now.
That guy with the Sterling SMG in the thumbnail looks so much like Captain Price from CoD2
British soldiers with thick moustaches look like Captain Price (as well as the real world John McAleese) the same way how African American marines/soldiers with patrol caps remind us of Sgt Johnson (and his Alien's inspiration Apone, played by real Marine Al Matthews). I think that every military has a common "look" amongst their personnel.
The chicken wire is super smart, ngl grenades totally slipped my mind.
They could just attack hooks on the grenades like the soviets did in response to germans using nets
@akriegguardsman only if you know its coming. That's a learned adaptation that comes from a longer conflict. Also, the hook doesn't totally defeat the defence - as it sticks to the mesh on the window - without the mesh the grenade would go into the room and perhaps do more damage.
@@akriegguardsman even better when you read some of the Soviet mishaps when the hook caught on their uniforms and loose items of clothing 😂😂 💯
The old SLR/FN FAL, always a sweet sight...
The number of times i was killed in house to house clearing in the 80s luckily i never had to do it for real 😂
The British perfected this in Northern Ireland and have trained many other countries including Israel who is using it for anything they haven’t turned into rubble.
Interesting. Thanks for sharing.
From the comfort of my armchair I can make two observations:
1. If I was defending a house I would have no doubt I was sitting in a death-trap.
2. If I was a assaulting a house I would have no doubt I was entering a death-trap.
Hmm . . . urban warfare is nasty.
Excellent analysis. Thank you.
anyone else notice the guy accidently unload a bullet into the ceiling at 2:32
Ha, hadn't noticed that! 😂
I don't think it was an accident, in House to House Fighting (1943) there is a moment where the ceiling of the first room gets shot on purpose before the section proceeds through the building.
Looks like one bloke remembered the technique or was recruit trained elsewhere. Or it was a "ND"...
When we couldn't gain entry from the roof or an upstairs window, we used to have to enter via a ground floor window and work our way upwards. We'd routinely shoot into the ceilings of the captured floor before assaulting up to the next level. Also, upon sight, into the ceilings near stairwells and attic accesses in case there were any enemy persons waiting to ambush us or drop a grenade.
I don't recall other units doing this when WE were the people defending upstairs. I don't know if it's in the manual but it was basic Para Regt doctrine.
@@simonsignolet5632 Maybe the guy in the video is a washed out Para who ended up back in "the hats"?
@@johnnyjohn-johnson7738why did they shoot the ceiling once first?
Cool video man
I’ve seen a lot of this in CIV Div videos, including using a hammer and ladder
this only works if there are no trip mines around the door frame.
Im gonna use this in strategy games, thanks
The manuals here also mentioned demolishing the floor between levels of a building and using ladders or piled furniture to create new paths between floors.
I Did a lot of urban areas fighting training in my army class , and event after for drill , it was fun and exciting fighting in urban areas but it was hell although i did "survived" a lot i still wouldn't love to be in any urban combat 5 hours of this is already stressful and you dont see the time passing by
The guy who guessed Northern Ireland gets the cigar 👏🏻😎
I fought in the Battle of Copehill Down... this is exactly how we were taught 15 years ago.
It may not have been in your pamphlet but within each building the SC/2IC is making a mental map of the floor. As each room is cleared the rifleman describes the layout of the room including windows and doors, which helps him direct the flow of the attack. It's both brutal and exhausting, and realistically a section won't take more than a house or two.
FIBUA, better known among the average British Squaddie as F.I.S.H...Fighting In Someones House...
The village shown is Bonnland a Training Object at the Hammelburg training area, Home of the German Army Infantry school.
I *THOUGHT* I recognised some of it! I was trying to place it as a training area in the UK... 👍
There was a clip at the very beginning , which I kinda recall seeing on an official army northern Ireland video of similar 70s 90s era . Though that may have been in Germany
Can you make a video on defensive urban tactics? Theres tons of stuff out there about assaulting buildings and all that, but I hardly see anything about how to defend an urban position
Sandbags, booby traps, snipers, grenades !
try applying these tactics to a city like Barcelona.
.....or, anywhere in South America.
every city block is a fortress 100 meters wide.
good luck getting through hallways and flank routes, if you find any at all... the moment you breach one, you're effectively in an interior courtyard surrounded by enemy lookouts.
Given this was primarily tactics developed to fight the soviets in Europe I don’t think it was a major concern. As with tactics Terran and the enemy dictate it
See if the Israelis can lend you a D-9
You'll suddenly find an access route the enemy didnt know about. Teddy bears go where they want to.
If your feeling cheaper the Syrians found engineers UR-77 mine clearing line charges did the job just as well.
0:05 the British infantry platoon does indeed have a section, three of them actually
damn, is that the music from COD3
I see you are a man of culture as well!
1:07 "limit the employment of artillery due to proximity to friendlies/civilians"
Russia: Hold my beer
great video mate
While the fal is a good rifle, i certainly wouldn't want to carry it in a close urban fighting, there's a reason why the Israelis replaced the gun.
In Soviet Russia. Safety is No1 Priority. No buildings remain. ;)
Interesting to compare the MALAYAN EMERGENCY versus the IRISH TROUBLES 20 years later. Malaysian Chinese failed because China had not yet set up to support them in the 50s unlike the help they gave to the Viet Minh at Dien Bien Phu.
Can you share where have u found the IWM training video for FIBUA. Seems it’s part of the School of Infantry training videos
See the pinned comment
My thoughts and prayers go out to you all
You should definitely do one in open ground or rural areas.
That CoD 3 theme, nice
Maybe you could do a video on greek, spanish and italian squad organisation next? I can't find the modern squad organisation of either countries anywhere
Can you do one about canadian airborne regiment 60s-80s
Hi! Love your videos. You've covered some EU armies, talked about modernization plans of NATO countries in the realities of war that we see in Ukraine today. Would you be interested in looking into Germany, to compare its current military and structure, as well as its plans on modernization? Last year, a bill was passed to allocate 4 billion euros for its development. Thanks!
I'm not sure if it is the constant nagging of NATO alarmists in America or an actual danger of instability introduced by Russia that has proven to be more effective driver of European defence preparations after the cold war.
Everyone not insane in Europe seems to start taking these matters seriously.
@@herptek Its the vicious russian attack against Ukraine. This really sparked things off in terms of european defense.
@@abraham2172 People woke up to reality. There has been since the cold war an unusual attitude in Europe where it wasn't uncommon for people to actually think that war would finally be history, if not everywhere then at least in Europe. Now the harsh reality has become obvious to everyone. People may or may not care about war but war certainly cares about people.
Fantastic video
fun fact, me and Matt of the Armourers Bench paid to digitise the Fighting in Villages SSVC film :) Great work as ever Battle Order!
Very nice video 🤝
"Sending the boys round", 60's style.
The real ones will know that it’s not called FIBUA but called FIBAR
I've seen a graphic on your website for The MEU. Are you going to do a video on it as well?
we called it " Fish" = fighting in someone else house
Next lesson ; how to wreck the house and steal things
Battle Order, can you do more Urban Warfare videos.
Interesting stuff br4h
woow this is soo similar to Indian Army down to section org until early 2000s. Its slight changed for CI units , similar to US Army. For regular Indian army units , its still the same.
India basically inherited British section structure at independence
Very interesting.
Wow awesome!
Is the new members video in collaboration with Oxide?
Good old pics but good new graphics
🥝🇳🇿😊
Where did you find this old training footage?
See the pinned comment
i wonder how these were tested and changed during the troubles
The Troubles was one of the influences that led to adopting the fire team concept to replace rifle group / gun group. Basically having "bricks" of 4 men who would provide 360 degree security within the team
Tactics for Northern Ireland and Cold War Germany were completely difference. COIN and FIBUA are not the same.
@BattleOrder huh, very cool, thanks for the info! 🤙
During The Troubles, British troops used to patrol down a single street as one platoon, but it got changed to them patrolling as separate bricks (fireteams).
The biggest threat was left out from their manual. I bet when you make the video updating the 2000-present manual it will be covered. The old tactics were so bad.
The first and biggest threat not talked about is COTB...civilians on the battlefield. Soldiers are not monsters who just want to kill everything they see. They are normally the best of a country. They serve to protect and defend their country. Seeing an innocent in danger will put their entire unit in hazard because that will halt the patrol due to basic human nature if the soldiers are not trained enough to eliminate any threat before other considerations.
The old tactics were also bad because they would send a section into a building to clear it and have no security for the areas already cleared so that an enemy could just roll in behind or through a different door or window so they can ambush you from a previously cleared room.
Modern tactics also require you not use high explosive or fragmentation grenades while clearing rooms or buildings because of a few concerns such as: natural gas ovens and stoves along or furnaces or heating oil appliances ignite in secondary unintended explosions, sheet rock walling or panelling does not stop shrapnel which can injure or kill friendly forces to include the guy who threw the grenade, you don't like killing innocent people who could be in the room, and high explosives kick up a lot of dust and debris which cause choking and vision hazards.
Even flash bangs can be an issue when used because of the dust though their use is preferred if at all possible as their utility out weigh those concerns.
The whole spray and pray were solid tactics before the military tactics evolved to the point they are now.
The point in the past was to seize a city and ensure your forces could move through the area without casualties as they continued to push towards the final objective of the conflict. It was more about fighting in areas where civilians had previously fled from. Built up areas were seen as tactical problems in a strategic goal. Now we know civilians do not flee an entire city and there was never a city were two forces could just have a free for all battle with no other concerns.
Just like a game of rugby 😂
The Russians probably should have read the pdf scan of that manual you uploaded lol
He grnade, why not a frag or a teirgas grenade
Couldn’t help but laugh at the photo…the guy with gpmg kicking door while 2 guys with sub machine guns watch…should be other way round
Ya i remember this well did it in 2009 lol i had to clime over a wall an wen i got over landed in to a rose bush lol
FIBUA AKA FISH - Fighting In Someone's House
Does anyone know where I can find British field manuals and handbooks about urban warfare? You can buy American ones online but I’d like British ones, dated 1960-2000 preferably
I know he has a link to a pdf for the reference of this video on his website but I’d like to purchase physical copies
Gotta get lucky with someone having it on ebay basically. They’re collectors items for a lot of older people
Thank you! I Appreciate the reply. Luckily enough for me someone was listing the exact one you reference in this video so I just bought it
Good vid, still valid
06:57 vibe check
Preparing for the BAOR expansion I see lol
BAOR is all but gone, only a few hundred people over there now afaik. My old camp is now a coffee shop lol
It's great that you made a video about this.
I would like to see a similar one on the development of urban combat since the Great War, or at least how the Germans and Soviets perfected urban combat during World War II.
Urban combat is nutts
Holy shit Call of Duty 3 soundtrack.
Same Tactics used today
Never drive a tank into a town. This was known by 1943
I see captain price in the thumbnail
FISH, Fighting in someone's house
I came here from a comment on r/CombatFootage talking about how similar IDF urban fighting tactics is similar to the British.
Do a video on Rhodesian RLI
and it all goes to shit once you start taking casualties. mines booby traps granades down drains six foot pickets on the stairs etc etc it's hellish. resupply through the sewers oh it's tuff you got to strip down your kit and pack every pocket with ammo!
Comment for statistics
I love the FAL, absolutely love it. But a 4 foot long rifle is not ideal for urban operations.
Can we download the Manuel's in internet?
2:29 was that a ND caught on camera?
Can you do a video about Morocco
do these work in squad?
You could probably implement some of the principles but don't think you can replicate everything.
You are much more limited in what you can do in Squad compared to real life.
One of the guys in the Discord recently commented that doing CQB in games like Ready or Not or Squad is arguably more difficult because you don't get total freedom, you're much less flexible in video games than in real life and AI and people in video games are not nearly as risk averse in games as in real life.
I think if you could go through the roof first you avoid players being eager to blow themselves up as there is no surrender button in most games
For video games, you dont need to do fancy stuff. Just the basics (Pie'ing rooms before entering, using grenades before pushing, and pushing into rooms quickly with your teammates while prefiring corners) is enough to utterly decimate most players