' car with front wheel drive is a pretty hard... rear wheel is a better than front... car or truck with 4 wheels drive or all wheels drive are careful and slow speed down... take time and not need to hurry / rush
Have you done any of the videos like this for the lorries and load distribution? I know the principle is the same but visualisation for the warehouse staff would be great!
Actually not so much, as the hitch point is different a fifth wheel tends to be more stable so does the placement of trailer tyres. In the UK the axles on a caravan are near the middle and the tongue weights are low like 3 to 5% therefore having the weight over the axle or towards the front is important. In the US a caravan has the axles about 2/3 along the trailer and has a higher tongue weight 10 to 15%. It is possible to load a trailer over that 15% and be stable (I have direct personal experience of this). Caravans however can apply forces which effect the back end of the tow vehicle as there is a leaver. A fifth wheel is over the rear axle and has much less effect on the tow vehicle as there is no leaver, fifth wheels tend to put more weight on the tongue like 20 to 25%. So as long as most of the weight is between the trailer axles and the tow vehicles axles it tends to be more stable, the it is distribution to avoid over load the axles. I have towed bumper pull trailers and caravans and fifth wheel caravans here in the US, most of my towing experience is over the weight of the tow vehicle, my first caravan was 9100 pounds to an 8000 truck and my fifth wheel is 14000 pounds to an 8000 pound truck.
Hi Josh you need to speak to me on the subject of "differential stability" If that model had my Differential stability fitted there would be no instability no matter where you placed the load or speed simply because it would have a control system in place. A simple inexpensive accessory that anyone could fit to any A frame trailer.
OK, very nic, but it seems in your first example of adding weight, you also spread the weight further from center, so I believe that is a combination of added weight and more polar vs central weight. Yopu second example is cleane. I think for the first effect of only weioght you should use same volume and shape cubes made of denser material
I have a question I would like answered. My caravan, unfortunately by design, is very nose heavy. When I load stuff in I have load everything as far back as possible. I sometimes have a water barrel full right at the back. Even when it's all loaded I still have a nose weight of about 70kg (Vehicle tow bar max weight is 75kg). Am I OK putting the weight in the back to make it ballance first (but still nose heavy).
@@flyer152 here we go chum... watch this video as well. Weight needs to be over the trailer axles as much as possible in conjunction with a heavier towing vehicle. Try putting your excess weight in the car to increase its weight if possible. ua-cam.com/video/JeEEC5eVNCk/v-deo.html
@@GaryNumeroUno thanks for this. Looking at this, I'm in the 4:15 time line. Everything out of our van the nose weight is 180-200kg. Once clothes and food goes in at the rear I get the nose weight to 70kg (max my vehicle can take on the ball). I guess my saving grace is my car is over 2000kg and the van is max 1300kg. In the above video, the trailer was always heavier than the tow vehicle (accept at 4:15)
livestock trailer mnfrs and haulers could use something like this to test the stability of their product as the animals, with their high centre of gravity, shift over, around, ahead, behind the axle.
I'm still searching the internet for an answer to this question: Is there any disadvantage to putting all the weight in front of the axle, with resulting tongue weight of, say, 15%, provided all the hardware ratings are sufficient for the resulting weight, versus 60/40 on the axle with empty 10% at front and empty 10% at rear?
ua-cam.com/video/qEHD9Wjw3lk/v-deo.htmlsi=nVulk6g8G1OGGppj Does this help? It appears to me the issue is not necessarily loading the edges of the trailer, farther away from the axle but rather the fact that loading on top of the axle or in front of it will make the system more stable quite like hanging an engine behind the rear wheels (rear mounted engine) of behind the seats im front of the rear axle (middle engined car) yield vastly different dynamic behaviour.
@@angelaraposo8065 No, it is not, it is all about weight distribution or moment of inertia. If all the weight is on the hitch then there is no problem, because you have a little moment of inertia. if you then add extra weight to both ends of trailer, so you still have the same hitch weight you will loose the stability.. The weight on hitch is not a part of the equation. This is very cleverly shown in the video above.
@@angelaraposo8065, I'm a used car dealer, the auction I source my inventory from is about 180 miles from my office. The truck I use to tow my inventory weighs about 6,000 lbs. The trailer, when loaded, weighs about 6,500 to 9,000 lbs. The heaviest I've towed is about 11,000 lbs. I drive 80 MPH (speed limit 75, but I do 5 over). Never had an issue. Just made sure I had plenty of tongue weight.
@@GOLDVIOLINbowofdeath, I don't have a hitch scale, nor do I weigh my rig on CAT scales, I just "eye ball it" and see if it looks about right. It's worked for me for years, so, if it ain't broken, don't fix it, right?
@@MrAdopado I don't believe so. The Tesla Model Y has it too. The Tesla Model Y's electronic stability control system uses braking to minimize trailer sway. When the system detects trailer sway, the touchscreen will briefly display the traction control system indicator.
Does the 1/10th scaling mean that a full scale setup can go 10x the tested speed of 160 km/h? What was the center of balance? 55% to 60% of the weight in front of the axle?
How can you say that on the first test it was safe as 16kmh when it was all over the show. On your second test you add more weight and manage 14kmh, when in reality that's all you wouldve managed on the first test.
Dr Josh Starling really needs to have a talk with me on the subject of stability. But he will not respond because no university professor will accept they did not know or find the answer. When this happens it will be a Eureka moment like when the model T leapt from a truck to a car. CONTROL SYSTEM IN PLACE
All this has been displayed many times but what Dr Strarling does not address is how to control the effects regardless of how the load is placed. Differential stability has the ability to control the effects with astonising accuracy and address the limits that it can take. Mechanical differential stability does not rely on computer algorithms to do this and the feedback loop ensures that that an equal and opposit force is applied at the centre of equilibrium precisely where the controlling effect is required. I am currently in the south of France and have gone through extremely high wind forces with two electric cycles on the back of my van - no uncontrolled sway in sight, To date it has covered 18,000 miles in all conditions with no uncontrollerd sway. I would be delighted to demonstrate this to any interested party and give the caravan free of any charge with some conditions attached. John Wilson
@@downunder7342 Of course common sense should apply in both speed and weight distribution - if you have an accident at high speed it is always going to be worse, if you load it out of common sense it will have consequences but having a control system that will counter any sway up to silly proportions will stop this completely.. I can say that under all normal events like truck wind wash, speed up hill and down dale it copes exceptionally well and you can just concentrate on driving normally without any worry. What I ask is that any company with the means to market, produce and validate this concept will get my full support.
LoL . No. Stack load based on "Load weight vs tongue weight" 10-15% eg .. 1000 pound load, stack so that there is 100-150 pound down force on tongue. Ideally 100.
By stack load you are referring to gross trailer weight? I think the assumption is if you put 60% of the "cargo" forward of the axles, it'll equate to about 10% (of the gross weight) tongue weight...peace!
Except he can explain exactly why it happens and the physics behind it. You just know you shouldn't do it because you've seen a video like this or you've been told not to do it by someone else, hopefully not trough loosing control of a vehicle! If you are capable of explaining why you only have education to thank for that.
Well, wit the difference that he can propably model the whole system of car and trailer mathematically, put it in simulations and figure out ways to improve the stability, maybe even make it more stable in non-optimal conditions. This is supposed to be a simple demonstration, what you do in university is far more complex than this.
This guy never drove a trailer. And clearly doesn't know shit. Tongue weight minimum 10%/load.. max 15%. Generally for anything long distance don't exceed your card stated tow capacity.
All right here's the setup a lightweight trailer that will handle a bobcat without collapsing and then you attach that to your Ford ranger pickup not the half ton I'm talking about the little one I think they're Mazdas anyway and see how that works what speed it becomes unstable I have a old boss that would be well informed. Yeah I tried to warn him needless to say that trick never works. Same setup except get your 3/4 ton fords pick m up the older heavier kind not an aluminum bullshit truck keep that in mind when you see how quickly the 3/4 ton can't handle it either. You're idiot government will tell you all know it's about fuel economy yeah really that lightweight Ford pick him up and get you killed so much quicker I don't care about crumpled zones or any of that bullshit lightweight vehicle is a death trap especially this aluminum garbage to be anywhere near as strong it'll weigh as much if not more than steel. Pay for fun get you a make up an imaginary electric truck so when it crashes not only do you have a hazardous material situation you got that stuff on you and the fire truck won't get anywhere near you and all the pretty colors of smoke what a disaster what a damn clean up mess and get done cleaning up all that bullshit you know you still have a car or a truck I should say to scrap so then where are you going to put all that electronics all that battery waste and the rest unbelievable yeah you take that electric shit stick it up your rear end for a good bow screw electric bullshit vehicles want to do something cute small atomic reactor running on steam buy your vehicle without a power plant now you got your vehicle then you go by your power plant how many kilowatts can you afford do you want steam is pretty vicious you never watched the old steam locomotive pulling out that's heavily loaded it'll just spin those Wheels you'll never see a diesel electric do that. So what you got to go in every year and have inspected to make sure that you have Not in any way shape or form removed altered tampered with or the old fold spindle and mutilated the power plant. Buy a new vehicle no worries take it out put it in the new one I'd like you got God damn batteries and shit electronics waste left somewhere else. So what it's radioactive big deal so is oil take your damn home ground bury the shit don't fucking complain to me and damn Indians lay up the road to try to block passage run them over it's bullshit what do you think they'll do if they're coming down the road with a missile on a trailer in your ass is out there glued to the pavement. There's 20 of you that way I'm out in the road I got bad news man they got a missile with a warhead like a real ICBM your toast and they're not going to run over you if your not able to be moved but there's a shoot you in the head and push you off the side if they have to get a snow plow.
should have tested all weight in front and then behind axle. Assignment Incomplete. C-
Yeah I want to see it all in front of the axle. Also some demonstration of the "ideal" layout that can go really fast... :)
I am using this for my toolbox meeting today. Thank you
Would you try with double Axl 🤔and proper size tow vehicle please
'
car with front wheel drive is a pretty hard...
rear wheel is a better than front...
car or truck with 4 wheels drive or all wheels drive are careful and slow speed down...
take time and not need to hurry / rush
Have you done any of the videos like this for the lorries and load distribution? I know the principle is the same but visualisation for the warehouse staff would be great!
Actually not so much, as the hitch point is different a fifth wheel tends to be more stable so does the placement of trailer tyres. In the UK the axles on a caravan are near the middle and the tongue weights are low like 3 to 5% therefore having the weight over the axle or towards the front is important. In the US a caravan has the axles about 2/3 along the trailer and has a higher tongue weight 10 to 15%. It is possible to load a trailer over that 15% and be stable (I have direct personal experience of this). Caravans however can apply forces which effect the back end of the tow vehicle as there is a leaver. A fifth wheel is over the rear axle and has much less effect on the tow vehicle as there is no leaver, fifth wheels tend to put more weight on the tongue like 20 to 25%. So as long as most of the weight is between the trailer axles and the tow vehicles axles it tends to be more stable, the it is distribution to avoid over load the axles. I have towed bumper pull trailers and caravans and fifth wheel caravans here in the US, most of my towing experience is over the weight of the tow vehicle, my first caravan was 9100 pounds to an 8000 truck and my fifth wheel is 14000 pounds to an 8000 pound truck.
Correction, weight must be closer to car.. ie in front of axel
Does it make a difference when the road is pushing
the car as on the belt here rather than the car pushing itself on the road ?
'
how about 2 axles or 3 axles with a trailer...
see test compare
Hi Josh you need to speak to me on the subject of "differential stability" If that model had my Differential stability fitted there would be no instability no matter where you placed the load or speed simply because it would have a control system in place. A simple inexpensive accessory that anyone could fit to any A frame trailer.
Donde puedo encontrar información sobre la estabilidad diferencial??
Thank you for sharing 🙏
So, what about the distance between the toung an dthe axel centerline?
I assume that longer distance means more stability.
OK, very nic, but it seems in your first example of adding weight, you also spread the weight further from center, so I believe that is a combination of added weight and more polar vs central weight. Yopu second example is cleane. I think for the first effect of only weioght you should use same volume and shape cubes made of denser material
Typical half ton trucks that weigh 5800 lbs are typically rated to tow 14000 lbs
Centralized mass 👍
I have a question I would like answered.
My caravan, unfortunately by design, is very nose heavy. When I load stuff in I have load everything as far back as possible. I sometimes have a water barrel full right at the back. Even when it's all loaded I still have a nose weight of about 70kg (Vehicle tow bar max weight is 75kg). Am I OK putting the weight in the back to make it ballance first (but still nose heavy).
no youre not ok with that set up, its ultra dangerous and one of the most stupid things one could do. front and axle, back should be a no no
@@wenmoon448 so what should I do? BTW was does "front and axle, rear should be a no no" mean?
@@flyer152 please check out this guy, best content on weight distribution while towing out there ua-cam.com/channels/MszYFGrHDh4myHOnYentew.html
@@flyer152 here we go chum... watch this video as well.
Weight needs to be over the trailer axles as much as possible in conjunction with a heavier towing vehicle. Try putting your excess weight in the car to increase its weight if possible.
ua-cam.com/video/JeEEC5eVNCk/v-deo.html
@@GaryNumeroUno thanks for this. Looking at this, I'm in the 4:15 time line.
Everything out of our van the nose weight is 180-200kg. Once clothes and food goes in at the rear I get the nose weight to 70kg (max my vehicle can take on the ball). I guess my saving grace is my car is over 2000kg and the van is max 1300kg. In the above video, the trailer was always heavier than the tow vehicle (accept at 4:15)
livestock trailer mnfrs and haulers could use something like this to test the stability of their product as the animals, with their high centre of gravity, shift over, around, ahead, behind the axle.
I'm still searching the internet for an answer to this question: Is there any disadvantage to putting all the weight in front of the axle, with resulting tongue weight of, say, 15%, provided all the hardware ratings are sufficient for the resulting weight, versus 60/40 on the axle with empty 10% at front and empty 10% at rear?
ua-cam.com/video/qEHD9Wjw3lk/v-deo.htmlsi=nVulk6g8G1OGGppj
Does this help?
It appears to me the issue is not necessarily loading the edges of the trailer, farther away from the axle but rather the fact that loading on top of the axle or in front of it will make the system more stable quite like hanging an engine behind the rear wheels (rear mounted engine) of behind the seats im front of the rear axle (middle engined car) yield vastly different dynamic behaviour.
Wouldn't that be very little weight? The tongue weight is 15% of "total trailer weight", do you get that with a level trailer by default?
Put all the wait on the front of the trailer ahead of the axle and it won't do that at all even with more of a load.
Exactly. In NA it's common to see pickups towing more than 2x their weight with no issues. It's all about the hitch weight.
@@angelaraposo8065 No, it is not, it is all about weight distribution or moment of inertia. If all the weight is on the hitch then there is no problem, because you have a little moment of inertia. if you then add extra weight to both ends of trailer, so you still have the same hitch weight you will loose the stability.. The weight on hitch is not a part of the equation. This is very cleverly shown in the video above.
@@angelaraposo8065, I'm a used car dealer, the auction I source my inventory from is about 180 miles from my office. The truck I use to tow my inventory weighs about 6,000 lbs. The trailer, when loaded, weighs about 6,500 to 9,000 lbs. The heaviest I've towed is about 11,000 lbs. I drive 80 MPH (speed limit 75, but I do 5 over). Never had an issue. Just made sure I had plenty of tongue weight.
@@vivillager Tongue weight should be 10-15%
@@GOLDVIOLINbowofdeath, I don't have a hitch scale, nor do I weigh my rig on CAT scales, I just "eye ball it" and see if it looks about right. It's worked for me for years, so, if it ain't broken, don't fix it, right?
Please the specifications of the band
Where is this
He didn’t mention having nose weight on the trailer.
Tesla Trailer Mode software helps alot with this.
Only on the Model X I believe. On the other models Trailer Mode does not appear to offer "Trailer Sway Mitigation".
@@MrAdopado I don't believe so. The Tesla Model Y has it too.
The Tesla Model Y's electronic stability control system uses braking to minimize trailer sway. When the system detects trailer sway, the touchscreen will briefly display the traction control system indicator.
@@seanlavery6477 You are correct. I've now found the specific reference to Trailer Sway Mitigation in the Model Y Manual! (I hadn't seen that before)
Does the 1/10th scaling mean that a full scale setup can go 10x the tested speed of 160 km/h?
What was the center of balance? 55% to 60% of the weight in front of the axle?
Soldi pubblici spesi per un video del genere è gravissimo 🤦🏻♂️
So he played with toy cars for 20 years and got paid 😎
How can you say that on the first test it was safe as 16kmh when it was all over the show.
On your second test you add more weight and manage 14kmh, when in reality that's all you wouldve managed on the first test.
Dr Josh Starling really needs to have a talk with me on the subject of stability. But he will not respond because no university professor will accept they did not know or find the answer. When this happens it will be a Eureka moment like when the model T leapt from a truck to a car. CONTROL SYSTEM IN PLACE
@@Cruner62
Eureka not Ulrika.
@@thechumpsbeendumped.7797 Silly me thanks for the correction - john
Why would you ever drive so fast?
All this has been displayed many times but what Dr Strarling does not address is how to control the effects regardless of how the load is placed. Differential stability has the ability to control the effects with astonising accuracy and address the limits that it can take. Mechanical differential stability does not rely on computer algorithms to do this and the feedback loop ensures that that an equal and opposit force is applied at the centre of equilibrium precisely where the controlling effect is required. I am currently in the south of France and have gone through extremely high wind forces with two electric cycles on the back of my van - no uncontrolled sway in sight, To date it has covered 18,000 miles in all conditions with no uncontrollerd sway. I would be delighted to demonstrate this to any interested party and give the caravan free of any charge with some conditions attached.
John Wilson
What is your recommendations on weight placement on the caravan? Thanks.
@@downunder7342 Of course common sense should apply in both speed and weight distribution - if you have an accident at high speed it is always going to be worse, if you load it out of common sense it will have consequences but having a control system that will counter any sway up to silly proportions will stop this completely.. I can say that under all normal events like truck wind wash, speed up hill and down dale it copes exceptionally well and you can just concentrate on driving normally without any worry. What I ask is that any company with the means to market, produce and validate this concept will get my full support.
video please? :)
Ideally, Where do you want the mass inside in a van?
Over the axles. The more weight over the axles the more stable it will be... in conjunction with a heavy toeing vehicle.
And we'll continue studying it for the next 1000 years. No rush. Keep the money coming. 😉💰
The behaviour of your model does not correlate with dash cam videos available on UA-cam.
Does having 2 axles make a diff?
Better, more stable.
Dig the re-purposed treadmill.
60/40 front/rear
Front side of the trailer must carry 60%+ weight for safe towing.
LoL . No.
Stack load based on "Load weight vs tongue weight" 10-15% eg .. 1000 pound load, stack so that there is 100-150 pound down force on tongue. Ideally 100.
By stack load you are referring to gross trailer weight? I think the assumption is if you put 60% of the "cargo" forward of the axles, it'll equate to about 10% (of the gross weight) tongue weight...peace!
It shows that having a University degree is no better than having real world experience.
Except he can explain exactly why it happens and the physics behind it. You just know you shouldn't do it because you've seen a video like this or you've been told not to do it by someone else, hopefully not trough loosing control of a vehicle! If you are capable of explaining why you only have education to thank for that.
Well, wit the difference that he can propably model the whole system of car and trailer mathematically, put it in simulations and figure out ways to improve the stability, maybe even make it more stable in non-optimal conditions. This is supposed to be a simple demonstration, what you do in university is far more complex than this.
Lol university is helpful in various certain things for sure, and as you well pointed out, real world experience and caution, are truly vital 👍
Half of what he said is completely wrong, but it's okay he's taken 20 years to get there 😂
This guy never drove a trailer. And clearly doesn't know shit.
Tongue weight minimum 10%/load.. max 15%.
Generally for anything long distance don't exceed your card stated tow capacity.
All right here's the setup a lightweight trailer that will handle a bobcat without collapsing and then you attach that to your Ford ranger pickup not the half ton I'm talking about the little one I think they're Mazdas anyway and see how that works what speed it becomes unstable I have a old boss that would be well informed.
Yeah I tried to warn him needless to say that trick never works.
Same setup except get your 3/4 ton fords pick m up the older heavier kind not an aluminum bullshit truck keep that in mind when you see how quickly the 3/4 ton can't handle it either.
You're idiot government will tell you all know it's about fuel economy yeah really that lightweight Ford pick him up and get you killed so much quicker I don't care about crumpled zones or any of that bullshit lightweight vehicle is a death trap especially this aluminum garbage to be anywhere near as strong it'll weigh as much if not more than steel.
Pay for fun get you a make up an imaginary electric truck so when it crashes not only do you have a hazardous material situation you got that stuff on you and the fire truck won't get anywhere near you and all the pretty colors of smoke what a disaster what a damn clean up mess and get done cleaning up all that bullshit you know you still have a car or a truck I should say to scrap so then where are you going to put all that electronics all that battery waste and the rest unbelievable yeah you take that electric shit stick it up your rear end for a good bow screw electric bullshit vehicles want to do something cute small atomic reactor running on steam buy your vehicle without a power plant now you got your vehicle then you go by your power plant how many kilowatts can you afford do you want steam is pretty vicious you never watched the old steam locomotive pulling out that's heavily loaded it'll just spin those Wheels you'll never see a diesel electric do that.
So what you got to go in every year and have inspected to make sure that you have Not in any way shape or form removed altered tampered with or the old fold spindle and mutilated the power plant.
Buy a new vehicle no worries take it out put it in the new one I'd like you got God damn batteries and shit electronics waste left somewhere else.
So what it's radioactive big deal so is oil take your damn home ground bury the shit don't fucking complain to me and damn Indians lay up the road to try to block passage run them over it's bullshit what do you think they'll do if they're coming down the road with a missile on a trailer in your ass is out there glued to the pavement.
There's 20 of you that way I'm out in the road I got bad news man they got a missile with a warhead like a real ICBM your toast and they're not going to run over you if your not able to be moved but there's a shoot you in the head and push you off the side if they have to get a snow plow.