340 - Artifacts, Sequential Flaking, and Modern Flintknapper Bias
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- Опубліковано 17 вер 2024
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There were thousands and thousands of people making these. at times other things could rush the making of these and nobody that made them thought they were going to be so highly anallized in 7000 years👍
Yup. Daily living was not easy. Preparation was necessary on everything and particularly working points and tools….we all get in a hurry or say…it’s good enough
Jeff, the price ranges are about $18 to $40 each for the casts, unless you buy them second-hand. I got some for like $10, for example. As for the radio carbon dating, you're right. The points can't be dated accurately unless they are found in an undisturbed layer of soil with organic residue that can be dated. And my chart is a little vague. I made it that way on purpose, and was very generous with the time span, because it takes a long time for me to actually verify all the dates and make sure the sources are talking about dates before 1950 (typical radiocarbon dates) or dates before 0-100 AD. In any case, there are a lot of very good archaeological studies on these point styles and I'm confident of the dates. :-)
Again, ONE VERY WELL DONE VIDEO WITH FANTASTIC INFORMATION! I have a few Daltons that I have found and they sure come close to matching the castings you shared. Thank you for all your videos and please keep doing them.
Jack, Just reviewed this video "one more time." As always very well studied and thoughtful. Certainly agree modern knappers focus on large size and "pretty," i.e. less utilitarian, styles of point. Of course, we don't have to go out and slay some food soon or go hungry along with the whole family. ;-) I'd assert point size then was a function of the prey it was to be used for. Expect refinement was a "personal preference" as well as "lucky break" that extra time between hunts was available to do it. I think of the suggestion that one mammoth could have provided weeks or months of sustenence for a family group (especially in winter when cold would help preserve the supply). The display of points at Marching Bear National Monument showing items from >10,000 to about 500 years before present was a study in "refinement and size." Multiple shelves of points starting at the bottom with beautiful, large clovis "monster killers" and ending up at the top with irregular, "anything will do" points show the progression. By 500 years ago Native Americans were getting iron points so the stone working knowledge was lost. Again, love your stuff. DGO (Clovisman001) Recall we've talked before...Thanks again for the like on my music
Thanks for the input David. I've thought a lot about the reasons behind the size, shape, and quality of the various points and it seems to be quite a random "thing". And when I compare ancient points to things I've knapped from my imagination, it seems to me that the old boys were very much concerned with utilitarian forms and didn't explore exotic shapes except for the Maya and a few other cultures.
Great point about modern knapper bias for large points. Please make smaller versions of those points but with more random flaking using abo tools and help eliminate that bias. You'll see that smaller is often more difficult if you do:)
Flintknappingtips I agree. Smaller is not as easy as it looks...
I somtimes think that knappers tend to want to challenge themselves to see how wide long or thin they can make a piece I think the native people used any means to get the job done especially where great amounts of points where made for trade hopwell etc . Indirect knapping was probably used more than we think it offers more control and can be learned quicker to produce usable well made points without a extensive tool kit
odinsarcher I agree. :-)
Thanks for the look at them awsome cast that flaking is what you see you know their old I find the Hardin point to be one of my favorites
Jack, do you feel that during the Cody complex time period before sequential multi pass was applied that perhaps the desired preform could have been ground ? Could this ground preform have lent itself to a more uniform surface allowing pressure, (direct or indirect), with less effort? The center planes of those castings & actual artifacts are truly amazing. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. Great video!!
They certainly knew about edge grinding but it appears that they preferred to shape the platforms and remove weak areas with a pressure flaker.
The highest level of evolution of the arrowhead, When I look at these points I find, Just a cracked pebble in most cases, they get edges touched? Then to see the hours it takes to create this, masteroeice These people did not have the luxury of time to knapp. It was now or death with them, I believe they were trapped here with the last mammoths, When no more mammoths, they were forced to learn to hunt small game, cracking pebbles and making arrows instead of huge spears.
Interesting thoughts but the vast majority of animal bones found with this type of "highest evolution of skill" points are not mammoth but deer and bison.
@@KnapperJackCrafty But this area is unique, I am the end ice age migration route, mammoths were trapped here, in an ice age 12k years ago called the younger dryas. This cut off all mammoths from migrating. There were Neanderthals living with them in the mountains. One Mammoth could last a group of 10 a year easy, they live in snow, like Eskimos. It happened more than once here. This is san luiz valley Basin, They left the african basin, they went to the alaska Basin, They came south to the Montana Great Basin, they then came south to Yellowstone, they then came south to the fairplay Basin, they then dropped in the san luiz valley basin, half in Colorado, half in new mexico. Don't let anyone tell you different. I believe they had dogs, wolfs.
@@KnapperJackCrafty But your right, those pretty points never saw a mammoth, those evolved for war.
Those were beautiful casts. What kind of price ranges do they charge for specimens like the ones you showed? Also, I wanted to ask (and please don't take this wrong) if you meant radio carbon dating for aging the original points. I learn a lot from your videos and really don't want to challenge you, but, I think radio carbon dating only works on materials that were once organic. As I understand, the only way archeologists date artifacts that are inorganic is by the soil strata in which they were found. Please correct me if I am misunderstanding this. Anyway, I look forward to every video (loved the 3 flaking vids) you issue. You really have taught me a lot so please don't stop. Thank you.
Always learning the more I watch your post keep posting!! Very interesting
Thanks!
How do you get the convex center like the firstview points you showed from the Cody complex. How to you get a straight raised centerline down the middle That evenly tapers down and out to the edge? I may not be describing this correctly or using correct terminology so please forgive my ignorance.
You have to start thick and carefully flake to the center with several passes.
@@KnapperJackCrafty Thank you! That makes perfect sense. I was way overthinking it lol.
Hello Mr. Crafty, real nice vid! I myself often wonder why the more technically difficult point types were developed so early and points seemed to become more crude as time goes on. I am sure that the sequential flaking styles shown must offer some functional advantage. Perhaps more "organized" re sharpening?
PaPoints Yeah, the general perception is that points became more "crude" over time but that's not true. We are so fixated on "parallel" flaking and similar types that we miss things like notching, thinness, and sharp, delicate edges and blades that actually increased in sophistication over time. :-) As far as the re-sharpening, you're probably right. More organized flaking leads to less waste and fewer trips back to the quarry.
Allergic Hobbit thanks for addressing this. Ive heard tge same, it doesn't make good logic of older points being more refined and the newer being crude.
Thanks for the vids . Im a novice at best and im picking up lots of useful info. John.
JackCrafty, especially when the nearest flint outcrop is 200 miles away! Around here they mostly used the white quartz, with anvil style knapping techniques.
my question is how these were made, I seem to only get good parallel flaking from ground smooth preforms. Are there vids explaining the process on these old points ? I watched flintknapper jimmy on the Z flake but I don't believe there was any explanation on preparing the preform. Very informative video and thanks!
Yeah, you should watch this series by EDBO23. Here is Part 1: ua-cam.com/video/_5vJFn77uL0/v-deo.html
The process of parallel flaking is a painstaking, very slow, and highly specialized skill.
Oh yeah, where did you get your name Hoagy? My great grandfather's name was Hoag. Kind of unique.
Hi interesting flint tips to my eye you have some similar to the Clovis points
Good explanations
Thanks
cool vid! thanks for the info.
I'm studying some lithic reduction sequences of local artifacts. a lot of white quartz, have you worked quartz? I'm looking for some anvil assisted fracturing... There are tons of anvils everywhere around here. people fill potholes with artifacts they are so prevalent around here! So, I am trying to solve the puzzle, or at least put some pieces together...
Yes, I've worked quartz. It's really tough. Here's a video you might like... ua-cam.com/video/UkfSJoXNOQo/v-deo.html
Ive finally working slabs want to do percussion but every time i just make dust
Something of such value and your holding them all together.why? Can you say damage
These are plastic copies.
lithiccastinglab.com/
@@KnapperJackCrafty oh!,my bad.sorry bout that.
Boy I hold my peleo stuff very carefully.
It surprised me.
I have been wracking my brain on this, lol, you may have created a monster. Now, let me preface this by saying I don't do many reproductions, I heavily use direct percussion with some pressure and indirect. I rarely try to match flake types and patterns, I just go for thinness and overall shape so if I am showing my ignorance on the subject please forgive me. Ok, that being said I have questions.
1: On the subject of parallel flaked knife forms, wouldn't you have to achieve a preform that was primarily randomly flaked before doing the final several passes to achieve parallel flaking? That being said, wouldn't that make the end product more refined?
2: Much like your quest to wrangle all of the flint Knapping terms, I think that as a community we need to decide what criteria we use to judge how refined or "complicated" a point is. A particular point type can't be judged outside of its use environment so I think this makes the conversation more difficult. Perhaps difficulty of construction?
3: Notches are awesome. This one isn't so much a question as an obsession.
4: I am looking forward to you joining flintknappers.com, can't wait to peruse your points.
5: Would you make a video comparing these casts to a more refined later era point style so that we can start to see what criterion are being used to judge point styles?
Lol, I guess I should have just done a video response. I have been typing for half an hour. Lol, in any case, thank you for what you do.
PaPoints 1. Yes, the preform would be randomly flaked and it was also relatively thick. The refined flaking (pressure flaking in sequence) makes the surface more regular and this effect become more evident after each re-sharpening. The "first stage" of the points are often not as refined-looking as the re-sharpened ones. However, it gets more complicated than that: For example, we don't know if the guys that re-sharpened the points were the same as the ones who made the first stage points. They probably were but we can't rule out the possibility that re-sharpening was a specialized skill in these cultures.
PaPoints 2. Continuing the thought from question 1, if the skills for making these points was divided among different "specialized" knappers, the entire process gets easier because some people are just better at doing certain things than others. To answer the "complicated" question, I think that looking at the flintknapping tools (in combination with the flaking difficulty) would be the best measure of how refined a point is. The more specialized and/or precise the tool, and the longer it takes to learn how to use the tool, the more refined the point. I'll post some very finely serrated, thin, and narrow-notched artifacts and other examples of what I mean.
Since the humans who made many of the artifacts lived in small bands, even if only one or two individuals within the band were capable of manufacturing good flakes, the overall percentage of the entire human population who were capable of producing really good tools had to dwarf the tiny number who can today.
If you want to recoup some of that money you spent on the castings I'd love to buy a dalton that you personally have made.
Shane K Thanks for the offer! I've made a few Daltons but they are the serrated kind with deep, concave bases and narrow blades. If you'll remind me again in a few weeks, I should have time to find those and possibly make some more like the ones in the video. :-)
Are a seller on flintknappers.com? I found out about that site and that Jim Winn sold points on it too late, he had stopped selling his points. I'd love to buy one of yours. I hope you don't have a mid life crisis or get divorced or whatever happened to Jim and stop making videos!
What diameter delrin rod do you use for that one that you put behind your leg and hit?
Shane K I do have an account with flintknappers . com but I haven't posted anything to sell. I'm waiting until I finish remodeling the house. :-)
Shane K The diameter of the rod is 1". See my video #244 for the various sizes of my tools.
Where have you gone?
Tony Tutor I've been experimenting with abo techniques and reading a lot about Cody Complex and Cumberland Points. :-) I'll post more vids soon. They will be a mix of "paper and pencil" lectures and knapping vids...
I didn't expect an answer I was just messing around but I do like all of your videos you have helped me quite alot
Thanks. :-)
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