FIXING A 1900's STEAM HAMMER! Pt. 3
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- Опубліковано 6 кві 2024
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My name is Alec Steele. I am a blacksmith, amateur machinist and all-round maker of all-things metal. We make videos about making interesting things, learning about craft and appreciating the joy of creativity. Great to have you here following along!
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Carrot valves are made the way they are because it is expected that over time the rubbing faces will wear down, and so you can tighten the nut on the bottom to take out the play, restoring the seal.
that and its a simple way to get a full flow valve
Thanks!
Thank you Stanger who is so wise in the ways of science!
My god what a different world we live in. No one today would think to invent a replaceable product with a feature to prolong its life built-in to the design.
It also has to do with manufacturing tolerances and the materials available. These carrot valves don't require a flexible seal -- they seal metal-to-metal. Many valves, like ball valves, have a seal, often teflon. At the time this machine was made, there weren't a lot good choices of sealing material for moving seals at high temperature and high pressure. Also, at the time, the tapered shape would have been significantly easier to manufacture than a precision round ball shape. And, just as the taper allows for wear, it also allows for variation in the original machined size. Along these same lines, it also allows the valve to be lapped for a good seal.
Have you thought about contacting a local preserved/heritage railway? They would have people with plenty of experience in steam pistons.
Does he really need a steam power hammer or is he just doing it for the content?
@@suncu91 YES !
@@suncu91 Why not both? No one NEEDS a steam hammer these days, you can go to Aniyang and buy a much more modern one. But there is something to be said for having a shop that runs off of steam and pneumatics. Steam is "alive" in a way that electricity is not. When you go see a working steam locomotive, you feel life in it. It's personality. Electricity? Not so much. Flip a switch.
@@suncu91 He's becoming a highly knowledgeable in all kinds of manufacturing and skills, while getting very rich at the same time, and putting out content that's enjoyed by and educational to hundreds of thousands of people. The guys just winning in every way possible.
If he sees this reply, he has Whitwell station not far from him, they have old trains and workshops there
If I remember correctly (and don’t be surprised if I’m wrong 😅) In a steam engine the piston is double acting ( pressure is sent above and below the piston) therefore two condensation drains are needed at each end of the cylinder. Oiling is usually done by mixing steam oil with the steam before it enters the valve box. Oh, and the condensation valves are for when you start a cold engine to prevent hydro locking.
not always, depends on the design, but it was extremely common for steam engines to be double acting. There's a good chance this one is as well.
A carrot valve is an old Roman valve. It’s also what you might see on a keg. The nut at the bottom can be tightened in order to increase the pressure to create a seal so when it shut it won’t leak. So instead of replacing a washer on the leaky faucet, you tighten the nut and it stops the leak.
Wow, I wonder why they stopped using those?
@@joshuabaughn3734 One disadvantage of that valve was that eventually it was worn down and had to be replaced (the whole thing). These days it's cheaper to rely on a low cost seal to replace.
@@joshuabaughn3734 You can still find them. Serck Audco, and Homestead, still make versions of them.
On other air hammers the hole in the buffer cylinder will be for an air pressure feed, this provides the resistance the cushion needs when the ram hits it.
That segue into the sponsor section was so good I didn’t even notice it was happening.
I was like "Why are you badgering that poor employee.." until realizing and clicking 2 min ahead really quick.
I wonder if he actually asked the employee 😅
I saw it coming when he said "no website?" But it really was a super smooth segue, and actually a really good example to promote the product
16:50 For a spark plug, of course! 🤣
Now I’m imagining a diesel hammer.
@@markfergerson2145 That would be a glow plug then. 😂
Re- Oil injectors for steam cylinders.
My suggestion is to contact your local steam preservation society.
17:14 This ½ BSP outlet is another condensate out, if the lower needs an out the upper also needs an outlet.
The oil line would inject before the valves as these also need lubrication with steam oil.
Reworking older machines, just brilliant.
I love restoration projects that take the time and proper reserch to do it right. This series is great
The amount of work that goes into this old power hammer is insane
Take a look at the Cutting Edge Engineering UA-cam channel. They restore hydraulic cylinders and barrels all the time. Much to learn there :)
Yeah, good content there. But they have the advantage of having a customer pay for the materials.
Alec, think ma boy. Steam oil. You don't need a hole for oil when you have steam oil. Unfortunately for you, this also means that you'll have to take into account adding holes for oil, because you won't be using steam oil, just air. And while, yes, you could lubricate the air, steam oil and vaporized oil aren't the same.
Also, consider that this machine, in particular VS others meant to work on air wouldn't work as good as a steam machine would, when fed air. Air is cool. Steam is hot. It's ALL meant to swell up with the heat of the steam as it runs.
over in north america it's easy to find out what boiler regulations are, nb-370 has em all, if he can build something from tube, he might not need engineer's plans or an inspection, a large pressure vessel though to store steam, away from the fire. he's really not the type to do things the easy way, so he'll probably buy a proper boiler and waste a ton of cash... if he goes for real steam.
@@felderup Steam is extremely dangerous - having a system that isn't built by a properly experienced person is almost a guarantee of someone getting hideously injured.
@@nunyabizness4354 Nah. Just use a safety factor of 2 and throw a half dozen relief valves at it.
@@nunyabizness4354 and how does someone get experience, memory implants?
@@nunyabizness4354"almost a guarantee" come on, any dummy can overbuild things to the point of having zero chance of failure. No, you need a properly experienced person to make a steam system that will deliver maximum performance for minimum cost without exploding.
This is one of my favourite recent series on this channel. All have been great but this one is really above and beyond interesting and cool.
I know nothing about this industry but that makes it no less fascinating.
Hi Alec, this is fantastic to watch, great work. I am a descendent of the Massey family, on my Grandmothers side. Not sure if you know but there is actually a book about the history of the B&S Massey company, 'Sons of the Forge' that can often be picked up for a few quid on Ebay. Written at least in part by Keppel Massey, my Great-great-Uncle, who was a director of the company for many years.
“Can’t be stuck if it’s a liquid”
Can confirm a few seized bolts need to be drained sometimes 😂
6:37 it's too late now... but personally, i would've called some shops in your area and asked them if they happen to have that rod as a leftover OR that rod as scrap iron from a repair. I know, huge amount of calls with a small chance of success. But when i started repairing things, i used to do this and man, i had some great scores. Usually, they're even happy to fork over other material as well. to get rid of them. Scrap they'd throw away. You're a very personable individual, you'd have no issue talking people up.
I think the biggest luck you could've possibly had (doing the above) is scoring a shaft from a hydraulic cylinder, that happened to have a close enough size to what you need. One of the great scores i've mentioned? It was one of those for me. All i did was shorten the piece and throw some threads for the gland, and i only paid a seventh of the price of a new rod for it.
For new shops, if you kids read this, do it. Worth the effort.
Scrap yards and workshop scrape piles are treasure troves, gold mines!
This advice works for just about any craft.
Its almost always worth it to ask around if someone has some leftover/scrap materials that they wan't to get rid of.
You'd be surprised what some people consider scrap, especially places that deal with large items and volumes.
I think the reason it broke your lathe bit is because it has basically been getting forged by all of the impacts, compressing it.
I think work hardened is the word your looking for
As @Abom79 would say - it's a broken cut. Similar to cutting across a keyway. Carbide, due to it's brittleness, does not appear to handle broken cuts very well. For those, I would guess HSS is the tool material of choice.
I love that you still have that giant lamp still kicking around
On the topic of boiler suits, for summer, get the 2 piece ones, the little extra ventilation is a *godsend*
Didn’t see that Squarespace ad coming. Chef’s kiss 👌
The valve has linear flow profile compared to a ball valve which is exponential. So every degree of turning the valve adjuster is a set amount. A ball valve opens quickly and reaches maximum slowly.
I love it when you throw a spotlight on other businesses that you discover along the way :)
That is hands-down, the best ad insert on UA-cam
Absolutely loving this series. The fact you guys have any sense of how to go about fixing this thing is incredible. Keep up the good work!
Love the series, and the introduction of Discord for interaction and picking the random expertise floating around in your viewership's brains is genius. The back and forth is so efficient this way, bravo!
Proud to say I'm excitedly awaiting each and every episode's arrival. I just love these types of videos, starting with something old and forgotten and making it something to be proud of again, good on you Alec, long time viewer, staring watching during the million layer katana project and have been hooked sense
2:26 I hope you recorded good measurements before turning that down. I'm sure it was designed with a certain amount of sacrificial material in case some needs to be turned down, as that just seems like good practice, but I tend to agree that you may have reached or exceeded that amount. Turning a whole new one seems like a much better idea than trying to fill the remainder, for all the reasons you mentioned.
I used to work in the oil drill making industry, and the shop I worked out of made pdc heads, which are the single-piece bulbous ones with compressed diamond teeth around the edges. We turned some out of stainless steel, but the expensive ones were tungsten matrix. The matrix material is too hard for extensive machining so it must be cast, and that means the intricate tapways for the mud (lubricant and flush) had to be included in the mold. I say all that just to get to this: casting a new hammer from scratch seems like a very fun, engaging, and challenging project.
I've had a rogue bit of metal bouncing about in the combustion chamber of motorbike engines before causing very similar damage to the inside of the cylinder head (but on a much smaller scale). I faced off what could be reasonably done and with the deeper divots, I took a burr and radiused them out and smoothed all the edges over so there isn't a stress riser or little compression point for pressure to start nibbling into it or forming a crack. The net effect is to lower the compression of the cylinder slightly, which in the grand scheme of things reduces mechanical stress anyway (at the cost of power). You can compensate for this if it's a problem by skimming some material off the gasket facing or using a thinner gasket to increase the compression back to where it was (loose 1mm off the top of the piston, make the gasket 1mm thinner and you're back where you started).
If it was me, I'd get a burr and turn those divots with threaded patterns in them into smooth rounded dents that have no stress riser and will allow gas to flow over/into/out of them easily.
I really enjoy tagging along on your journey. Keep keeping on Alec!
This is my favorite series in a while. Love it.
I love the more normal real workday exploratory pace of this series and the way you are piecing together the knowledge of the steam hammer through historic documents and the community!
I'm really loving this series, plz keep 'em coming
Loving this new series, your content has reached new levels recently, keep it up!
I love seeing these kind of videos! I like the multi-part projects!
love seeing the lights on the DRO flicker with the camera on it
I don't
I worked on one of these Massey 5 cwt hammers 30 years ago in a engineering workshop and when they came to refurbished the hammer at the time I asked about the pitting in the slide the Forman engineer who had work on this hammer for some 45 years said we will stone the high spots and repack the glans but the pit help hold oil and help it work better. Ps the hammer had been converted to compressed air .
I personally love these tipes of videos, restauring old machine.... Two perfect things
I’ve heard people mention hard chrome electroplating as a good alternative to spray welding, and it’s often used on transmissions to build up worn shafts. It’s also used on Com-block kalashnikovs to protect gun barrels, so it ought to be fairly tough.
Wow. that slide-in ad was Perfect and well done XD
This is a great series mate. I am loving it 👌
I really enjoy your casts .
Great to see your progress and your mental process for solving the problems :)
I do enjoy this series. Keep up the good work. Stay safe.
You are doing a nice job on the steamhammer,.Can i say as a personal note, it is nice to see and hear that you now are growing up, most of the screaming has gone, has been following for many years. Sorry for my english. Regards Steffen Denmark
that oiler might be a hydro-static lubricator? i'm not to too well versed in the inner workings of them and i don't know if your oiler is like that. but steam goes through and pulls oil with it into the engine through a offshoot line that comes off the main steam inlet where the steam pulls oil with it into the cylinders.
Looking forward to more of this project. great vid. cheers
Just a thought. If you know roughly where the oiler sits, can you then take the piece of oil line and hold it up to the oiler and see if there's anything that's roughly the length of the oil line away from the oiler? If that line was on the machine at one point you might be able to use it's rough length to determine which two things it connected. Just a thought.
Great idea!!!!
Watching the lathe effect I think you broke the bit on the cast iron from a higher hardness inclusion possibly a glass inclusion which can happen in cast iron
I love a good tool restoration series!
You may or may not have talked about this in the past but many people on this side of the pond may not know the difference between your BSP and our NPT. Th first time I ran into it many years ago I had to get a machine shop make an adapter going from 2 inch BSP to my NPT. the differences are crazy in the shape and pitch of the threads.
The tapered valve is very similar to stainless dairy valves. Two way and three way tapered shaft valves. During operation the taper allows the nut to be loosened slightly and the valve to be swung to a new position. Little to no product loss and it is self packing as the nut is retightened. Very easy to clean and keep clean. When the machine is cold, condensation will be very different compared to when the machine has heated from use. Steam is a funny mistress. It occupies many thousands of times the volume of water and when it collapses it can leave an enormously powerful vacuum in its wake. Home canning. Boil the liquid in the jar, sit it on the counter and as the steam collapses the lid pops and seals the jar.
Maybe the hand oiler is for the ways the ram runs in? Hand oilers are usually used for once a day/ every few working hours oil application.
Such a good series so far! They don't make em like they used to
*I THINK THAT BURR* was you screw that had been bouncing around LOL
yooo definitely couldve been, they way it just came off so easily
@@schtaiv - It had to go somewhere LOL.
The fitting on the end of the tubing is half of a compression fitting. You can get various combinations of tube to pipe thread. I also used to run 100+ hp boilers, From my experience, if anything needed steam oil, the oilers were usually located relatively close to what they were oiling. An exception to this is if the oiling system is pressurized, then it could be mounted anywhere.
Only true legends are able to casually have a bottle of Ketchup on their desk.
I love your work alec
This is a great series
Had no idea I cared this much about steam hammers until now, this series has been so much fun
"Jamie will have been mostly unhelpful" lol. You two are hilarious together
love how "can't be stuck if its liquid" was the answer
That transition into the sponsor was flawless. 10/10
Awesome job so far! Can’t wait till you add gold inlay and engrave the whole thing!
Also hear me out. Miltec-1. Heat at proper temperature for 2 hours. (Depends on method and whatever, I used a meat thermometer). Apply 3 times. It's like applying a rust resistant teflon coating that soaks into the metal. I would still property lubricate. But it makes cleaning easier. Makes oil work better. Less corrosion.
As you stated to point out the piece broken off in the threads, my exact thought was "it can't be stuck if it's liquid" 😂
You are right oil in the steam the oiler is for the gland seals 🦭shafts and hardened steel slides your hammer has bronze bushes and need pure oil not oil and water mix .If you convert to air the bushes need pressure oil feed directly ,not drip feed down the slide
17:00 my guess might be a pressure inlet that not only dampens the main piston upward stroke by creating a gas-spring behind the upper piston.
but also helps pushing it down again when it hits that center plug so pressure can flow from the head into the main cylinder.
Alec, I miss you doing some proper difficult weapons forging... you've made it so fun compared to other UA-camrs! Why not collab with some of them to make great content AND improve your skills?
Best wishes from Russia
I gotta say, I've missed these larger/long term projects from your channel.
Now I'm going to look up what a quid equates to in American money
Getting interesting. Was underwhelmed by the start of this project, but now am fully committed to the restoration...
From my experience with Steam Locomotives, the oiling of the internal pistons are done by introducing Steam Oil to the steam, which carries it through the valves and into the cylinder to also lubricate the piston itself, then the Steam Gland receives oil just ahead of it to lubricate the piston rod from the outside.
Regarding oiling of this machine; it is likely there was a Displacement Lubricator somewhere in the steam line. The steam would condense in this unit, raising the oil level within and allowing it to pass into the steam line and be carried into the valves. This is common on some auxiliary components on Steam Locomotives, such as Air Compressors and Rocking/Shaker Grate Cylinders. This may also have been done with a Hydrostatic Lubricator (If you want to do some thinking, find a Diagram of a Detroit Sight-Feed Hydrostatic Lubricator and try to make sense of that!) though I think this would be a little overcomplicated for a static unit.
The glands on the Cylinder may have been fed oil from a simple Tail Trimming in an oil cup. There may be some mounting holes on the body of the machine above the steam gland to provide evidence if this was present, or it could have been mounted on a Race or some other external infrastructure in the building (one large oil reservoir could have provided oil for several components, even multiple machines, via numerous trimmings and syphon pipes)
Similarly, the valves and piston may have been fed by a mechanical lubricator. Usual operating by a Ratchet and Pawl mechanism, like a trimming feed the reservoir and unit itself would likely have been mounted to the machine or otherwise, but the mechanism would almost certainly be driven by a linkage off the Valve Gear. If so there will be evidence of some connection of an additional linkage on the valve gear; an extra hole to receive the pin of a clevis or something. A Mechanical Lubricator would most likely also feed either into the steam line or directly into the valve, but possibly also directly into the cylinder. I would think there would either be an entry hole of the oil in the center of the cylinder body to provide equal oil to both sides of the piston, or one in each end of the cylinder body.
Alex, you need to forge you a Damascus geer shift knob for your VW! Maybe with wrought-iron for a deep etch. Maybe a scull with the 6 speed profile milled within? Just a thought for i have a six speed manual VW Golf and would do it if i had the equipment and knowledge. Always love what you do.
Smoothest sponsor segway I've ever seen. Kkkkk Loving the series!!
Oh Yeah!!! Thanks Alec!!!
We need a tour video of that precision grinding shop!
Loving these videos
I know it's not likely to be cost-effective, but I would absolutely love to see it sent to Curtis at Cutting Edge Engineering Australia! What a cool crossover episode that would be, and they specialize in stuff like this!
Loving the videos Alec 🙏🤙
You could just go to a local Machine Shop, collaborate with them and mill some new pieces, since those are so worn out, It's a very old hammer, so some parts will need rebuilt (Machined) to fit it.. Loved this episode.. Thank you for sharing..
Use the Waterpump pliers the other way around. With the "mouth" facing the direction you are going to turn it you won't need almost any force to keep the pliers closed, simply push. By the way, damascus steel waterpump pliers would be cool ;)
On modelstream the oil is often added to the steam piping via displacement lubricator - so no direct injection into cylinder/valve body
Steam cylinders would normally have a packing gland seal around the shaft, in the case of this beast with an asbestos gland. The two bronze bits look as thought they are the two parts of such as seal. Clearly you will need to remake this with the smaller diameter shaft. You may be able to replace this with a modern Teflon type seal with a bespoke seal housing?
The valve is designed to be used as a positive shut off meaning that in normal operation, the valve will be fully open or closed. Usually a more reliable seal than a gate valve can provide. It is not designed to regulate flow. In the US, they are sometimes called a plug valve. They are available in many different sizes and are used in the oil industry quite frequently.
I don't know about everybody else but I felt like a kid when Alex said he's going to the train museum. Like the teacher announcing to the class "kids we are going on a field trip" Bolting home with my permission note raised high in the air haha
Love these. Keep doing stuff please. Cheers.
Was not expecting to see Blickling Hall and a cheeky bit of Alysham when watching this video! Never knew you were Norfolk 🎉
On modelsteam on both sides of the piston there are cylinder cocks to expel condensate (water) - to prevent hydro lock on a cold cylinder / startup
Love watching the restauration. Know nothing about steam hammers, so cannot help. Good luck 👍☀️
Looking at the one at the museum will definitely be a good idea to tell where all the pieces go.
Alec could sing falsetto beautifully! 🤣
For anything hydraulic and shaft repair, contact Cutting Edge Engineering Australia. Curtis is on youtube and is definitely the man with all the knowledge.
Unfortunately Australia is not quite around the corner from Alec.
14:00 Woah, I've been there! Not Strongbar, but I've been to and past that industrial estate multiple times, since my Grandma lives in north Norfolk.
7:17 Well played, Alec, well played.
Alec, As a retired blacksmith of 46 years in the trade, I have retired through health reasons some brought on by my working life. I have used many power hammers in my time and most of them has brought me chronic back pain that I live with now. This is due to the hammer not being on a separate plinth in a pit. The only hammer I had like that was a Glaszer hammer a German company my employer bought to produce architectural metal work. It came with strict instructions that we build a pit and plinth for it to sit on. They supplied the rubber mounts and bolts and drawings of how to build and set up the pit and plinth which was filled with concrete. Please put your power hammer on a plinth in a pit to save your back later in life. I worked for that company for nine years and I never had any vibration through my feet using that hammer. I used an old blocker hammer for 25 years at the blacksmiths I worked for when I was your age and old er and felt every thump through my body??.
It's good to see you are doing the same things I recommended in the last video. it's nice to know I wasn't off the mark.
It's probably an oiler port, but is it possible it has been converted to run on compressed air? i think it's unlikely but I don't know much about steam hammer tolerances and if they are tight enough that it can be run on compressed air.
All steam cilinders need a condensate drain to get rid of condensate during warm up to avoid water lock. As liquids cannot be compressed, water lock has a catastrophic effect and can rip cylinder heads etc. So, also the buffer/cushion cylinder should have a drain. Oil for cylinders is usually injected in the steam input stream and can be considered a total loss lubrication system.
Who would also be helpful with doing such repairs is Cutting Edge Engineering from Australia. He repairs heavy equipment for mining operations and also has knowledge in repairing cylinders and other heavy duty machinery. Would be a nice crossover between UA-cams from different parts of the world
Steam condensate needs to be drained top and bottom. A steam cillinder is dubbel acting. Working both the up and down stroke. To prefent hydrolock. The barings need oil look for a point there. Oil for the cillinder is added in the steam line
It would be cool if you made a clear full tang polycarbonate gladiator sword, with a wooden handle, love your videos
You should look at what Titomic does. Cold spray seems like it would be really well suited for this repair process