It is from the 'Missa L'Hora Passa' by Viadana. Sadly there is no recording of the work at the moment. The same Kyrie is used in the opening sequence of "True Confessions" a movie starring Robert DeNiro as a priest mixed up with the Mob. The sequence is here on UA-cam. Search something like "Solemn Mass, De Niro" and you should find it easity. It's a lovely piece and I would love to hear the whole mass.
@BungleZippie *sigh* I know, I've seen it too. Sometimes it makes me very depressed. But then I go to the Monastery and see genuine respect for the glory of the Mass and feel like I am in heaven.
If I had the choice of attending your average Novus Ordo Mass America or a fine liturgical banquet such as this one offered by our newly received Anglo brethren.... surly I would not think twice in choosing the Anglican use. Anglican Catholics is America seem to be more Roman than most of those Liberal parishes I have experienced.
To be more accurate: Henry VIII did indeed effect a schism (after initially persecuting the religious reformation movement). However, the said schismatic church ("Church of England") nearly got dissolved later on, when the English broke into two extremist factions -- the Protestants taking over during the reign of Edward VI, and then (as you say) Mary I attempting to restore Catholicism.
This is not an Episcopal Church but former Espiscopal parish called Our Lady of The Atonement. It is a Roman Catholic parish in San Antonio that uses The Anglican Rite for Roman Catholics. They are very traditional parish and not liberal.
"... at the name of Jesus, every knee shall bow..." Philippians 2:10; Isaiah 45:23; Romans 14:11 do you bow when you hear the name of our Lord and Saviour? i was pleasantly surprised to see our Anglican brothers do so at liturgy! such a simple and profoundly reverent gesture... i'm sure even our most fundamentalist brothers would agree to this!
It's a former Anglican parish that entered Union with a Roman Catholic Bishop (and thus, the Pope). Due to the inappropriateness of stripping them of their liturgical tradition (that, in part, predates even the Tridentine Liturgy), they were allowed to use a seperate Liturgy, the "Anglican Use", which is a Vatican-sanctioned version of the old Anglican Liturgy. Simple, no?
@vladimir998 What a beautiful Catholic Liturgy. One can only hope that with the continued numbers of Anglicans/Episcopals coming into the Church, that we will eventually see an Anglican Rite which is not a subsidiary of the Latin Rite but a Co-equal rite within the Church similar to the Byzantine Rite, Dominican Rite, Ambrosian Rite, etc.
@BungleZippie Sadly, I have to agree that many Catholic Communities have forsaken solemnity for the sake of 'popular' worship, but please don't give up! Among us young people, we are thirsting for the divine splendor of meaningful ritual. Come with us! I myself was born and raised Novus Ordo, and I absolutely love Sacred Tradition. We're not a lost cost :)
The documents SanLewy, in fact place Anglicanism OUTSIDE the community of Protestant Churches. In fact, if you would bother to read church documents, you would note that the Roman Church normally takes pain to make the distinction as evidenced by statements containing wording such as- "our Protestant and Anglican brothers". In fact, the documents go on to state that Anglicanism IS to be distinguished from Protestantism, and places it in a fourth category, with RC, Orthodox, & Protestants.
@lauwai4life @lauwai4life These were Anglicans who become Catholics. I went the other way around. Anglican worship is far better than the average Catholic church these days. This is an exception!!!
@MenechemShaul I know. I personally do not refer to Anglicans as protestants, I see them as Catholic :] The Church views most of the Communion (especially Episcopalians) as protestant, but many are reconciling with Rome.
So, I guess the Mozarabic Rite and the Carthusian Rites are just "side shows", too? What about the Divine Liturgies? All of them pre-date the Tridentine Rite (which, itself, was a synthesis of a number of older liturgical variations).
@lauwai4life These were Anglicans who become Catholics. I went the other way around. Anglican worship is far better than the average Catholic church these days. This is an exception!!!
"The first divisions occurred in the East, when the dogmatic formulae of the Councils of Ephesus and Chalcedon were challenged, and ecclesiastical communion was dissolved. Other divisions arose more than four centuries later in the West, stemming from events usually referred to as "The Reformation." As a result, many Communions, were separated from Rome. Among those in which Catholic traditions and institutions in part continue to exist, the Anglican Communion occupies a special place."
@lauwai4life The whole point of this is to be in union with the Holy Father and the Universal Church, not be a part of a church which has separated itself from the apostolic succession of Peter.
coolerking04, I am not WISHING for the demise of the Roman Catholic Church, I am only describing the current situation. The French hate to keep such statistics, but it appears more Muslims go to prayer service on Friday than Catholics go to Mass on Sunday. Across the board, the figures are startling. No more than 20% of Spanish attend mass once a month. In Ireland, maybe because of recent horrific scandals, the church is withering. The Church cannot ignore this.
Historically, the Church of England -- since the Elizabethan Religious Settlement of 1559 -- has been characterized as a "gatebridge" between Catholicism and Protestantism. And Anglicanism -- the system of doctrines and liturgical practices -- reflects this compromise between the two traditions. It's not surprising, then, that Rome grants a special recognition to this faith that is distinguished from other forms of Protestantism.
@fatimamovement Don't forget that the Mystical Body of Christ exists in the hearts and souls of His people as well. I have to point out, however, that you have your history a bit off. The Tidentine expression of the Divine Liturgy did not come into existence until 1570 at the council of Trent, so if you wish to be so legalistic about the expression of the Liturgy, you should check out the Eastern Church, which has barely changed at all since Biblical times.
I'm hardly concerned with Pentacostalism, or Mormonism in Europe. I'm concerned with secularism. In Latin America and Africa, I am concerned with those movements. I don't think we can stick our heads in the sand and pretend these issues will just go away. Mormonism has been called "Scientology plus 170 years", but I don't think people much care about antiquity. I only bring these issues to light because they're important, and they concern me and many others. What should we do?
In any case, I disagree with your assertion that Henry VIII effected a schism. In what way did Mary I not restore Catholicism? Have you not heard of the Marian Persecutions? Was Cardinal Pole, later Archbishop of Canterbury not central in this sad chapter? How many horrific deaths did they order? Henry may have provided the occasion for Reformation theology to enter England, but it was only a matter of time one way or the other. But there is more going on here that you ignore (cont).
I'm not judging anyone. I'm simply stating the fact that the Catholic Church views the Anglican Communion as being Protestant. Anglicans are in no more in perfect communion with the Pontiff than any other Protestant group. You may disagree with the Catholic Church but that's on you.
I did not say you were "WISHING" for the demise of the Church. I am well aware of the current situation and while things seem to be in crisis, historically speaking there is always some kind of crisis. Also, claims of the death of the Church in Europe are greatly exagerated. The French statistics are always skewed because a large number of French Catholics are in SSPX (for better of for worse.)
I would suggest you alert SanLewy of this. I've always found the ignorance of typical roman catholics a bit amusing, and certainly self serving. Mary restored England to Roman Catholicism after succeeding her half brother, Edward VI to the English throne. In the process, she had almost 300 religious dissenters burned at the stake in the Marian Persecutions, That of course famously included Thomas Cranmer, first Archbishop free of Rome. Henry VIII was NOT the 'founder' of a new church.
@Peugeot908HDIFAP You'll find most Catholic masses are dire. I guess you'll also find that the only theological line you'll find is the official conservative line. Most Catholics are as, if not more Liberal, than many Anglicans in reality. I'm Catholic but I prefer Anglican worship
Nope. The Catholic Church considers the Anglican Communion to be Protestant. You could become a Latin Rite Catholic and attend a parish that celebrates the Mass using the Anglican Use provision as dipicted here...
You need to refine your research. I would direct you to the documents of Vatican II. Specifically the "Decree on Ecumenism" 'Unitatis Redintegratio' "CHAPTER III CHURCHES AND ECCLESIAL COMMUNITIES SEPARATED FROM THE ROMAN APOSTOLIC SEE 13. We now turn our attention to the two chief types of division as they affect the seamless robe of Christ. (cont above)
@EmanonElazon Not even 'popular' where I am. Just stripped down to it's literal bones boredom. Minus the 1 minute homily the services don't do good ritual but stick to the core order of service to be 'pure'. No bells, no smells, minimum vestments, minimum use of iconography, candles or inspiring hymns or song. No kneeling for communion and pressure to not receive in hand. Fluffy homilies that I see as intellectually mundane and dishonest in downplaying, or skipping over, church doctrine.
@MenechemShaul False! Read our Catechism. The Catholic Church observes Sunday as our Holy Day because of Christ's resurecction. The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath.
In any case, none of this strikes me as nearly as significant as other developments occurring in both traditions. The R.C. Church is on life support in Europe as is nearly every Christian tradition. Pentecostalism is exploding in Latin America, as is Mormonism (of all things). Few Catholics in the U.S. appear to be listening to church teachings. -- While it may be comforting to proclaim one's spiritual superiority, can Christianity- the faith we ALL proclaim, suffer this childishness?
Absolutely not... There is no such thing as "Anglican Catholic Church in union with Rome." There is an Anglican-use provision within the Latin (Roman) Rite of the Church. Byzantine Catholics and other Eastern Catholics are true suri juris churches as part of the Catholic Church (not the "Roman Catholic Church."
No we can't stick our heads in the sand. The solution to the problems you mention is 1-Reverence in liturgy, 2-Better education, aka beauty and truth, the time tested "weapons" of the Church.
In any case, I find current developments increasingly irrelevant given the position of Christianity in Europe, and increasingly in the States. Regardless of tradition, Christianity in Europe is on life support. Roman Catholic strongholds like Latin America are increasingly turning to the worst kind of traditions including Pentecostalism and Mormonism. The issues involving R. Catholics and Anglicans will become insignificant, and pompous comments typical of SanLewy anachronistic.
One can argue church history and theology ad nauseum. I am not concerned about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. But the church, and by that I mean any legitimate expression of Christianity, is in crisis. It is all but dead in Europe, dying a slow death even in the U.S., and in much of the developing world veering away from any sort of orthodox Christianity toward cultism. THESE are the things that we should be concerned with don't you think?
It is from the 'Missa L'Hora Passa' by Viadana. Sadly there is no recording of the work at the moment. The same Kyrie is used in the opening sequence of "True Confessions" a movie starring Robert DeNiro as a priest mixed up with the Mob. The sequence is here on UA-cam. Search something like "Solemn Mass, De Niro" and you should find it easity. It's a lovely piece and I would love to hear the whole mass.
@BungleZippie *sigh* I know, I've seen it too. Sometimes it makes me very depressed. But then I go to the Monastery and see genuine respect for the glory of the Mass and feel like I am in heaven.
Beautiful. Everything the Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite should have been.
Very solemn Requiem Mass!
If I had the choice of attending your average Novus Ordo Mass America or a fine liturgical banquet such as this one offered by our newly received Anglo brethren.... surly I would not think twice in choosing the Anglican use. Anglican Catholics is America seem to be more Roman than most of those Liberal parishes I have experienced.
To be more accurate: Henry VIII did indeed effect a schism (after initially persecuting the religious reformation movement). However, the said schismatic church ("Church of England") nearly got dissolved later on, when the English broke into two extremist factions -- the Protestants taking over during the reign of Edward VI, and then (as you say) Mary I attempting to restore Catholicism.
This is not an Episcopal Church but former Espiscopal parish called Our Lady of The Atonement. It is a Roman Catholic parish in San Antonio that uses The Anglican Rite for Roman Catholics. They are very traditional parish and not liberal.
"... at the name of Jesus, every knee shall bow..."
Philippians 2:10; Isaiah 45:23; Romans 14:11
do you bow when you hear the name of our Lord and Saviour? i was pleasantly surprised to see our Anglican brothers do so at liturgy! such a simple and profoundly reverent gesture... i'm sure even our most fundamentalist brothers would agree to this!
It's a former Anglican parish that entered Union with a Roman Catholic Bishop (and thus, the Pope). Due to the inappropriateness of stripping them of their liturgical tradition (that, in part, predates even the Tridentine Liturgy), they were allowed to use a seperate Liturgy, the "Anglican Use", which is a Vatican-sanctioned version of the old Anglican Liturgy.
Simple, no?
@vladimir998 What a beautiful Catholic Liturgy. One can only hope that with the continued numbers of Anglicans/Episcopals coming into the Church, that we will eventually see an Anglican Rite which is not a subsidiary of the Latin Rite but a Co-equal rite within the Church similar to the Byzantine Rite, Dominican Rite, Ambrosian Rite, etc.
@BungleZippie Sadly, I have to agree that many Catholic Communities have forsaken solemnity for the sake of 'popular' worship, but please don't give up! Among us young people, we are thirsting for the divine splendor of meaningful ritual. Come with us! I myself was born and raised Novus Ordo, and I absolutely love Sacred Tradition. We're not a lost cost :)
Serving the Altar for an Anglican Mass, AKA good bye knees
The documents SanLewy, in fact place Anglicanism OUTSIDE the community of Protestant Churches. In fact, if you would bother to read church documents, you would note that the Roman Church normally takes pain to make the distinction as evidenced by statements containing wording such as- "our Protestant and Anglican brothers".
In fact, the documents go on to state that Anglicanism IS to be distinguished from Protestantism, and places it in a fourth category, with RC, Orthodox, & Protestants.
@SanLewy well, the Roman Catholic Church (I am a roman catholic) views anglicans as protestants but they view themselves as Catholics.
@lauwai4life @lauwai4life These were Anglicans who become Catholics. I went the other way around. Anglican worship is far better than the average Catholic church these days. This is an exception!!!
@MenechemShaul I know. I personally do not refer to Anglicans as protestants, I see them as Catholic :]
The Church views most of the Communion (especially Episcopalians) as protestant, but many are reconciling with Rome.
So, I guess the Mozarabic Rite and the Carthusian Rites are just "side shows", too? What about the Divine Liturgies?
All of them pre-date the Tridentine Rite (which, itself, was a synthesis of a number of older liturgical variations).
@lauwai4life These were Anglicans who become Catholics. I went the other way around. Anglican worship is far better than the average Catholic church these days. This is an exception!!!
@Peugeot908HDIFAP Praise God and welcome home!
"The first divisions occurred in the East, when the dogmatic formulae of the Councils of Ephesus and Chalcedon were challenged, and ecclesiastical communion was dissolved.
Other divisions arose more than four centuries later in the West, stemming from events usually referred to as "The Reformation." As a result, many Communions, were separated from Rome. Among those in which Catholic traditions and institutions in part continue to exist, the Anglican Communion occupies a special place."
@MenechemShaul I attended an Anglo-Catholic [Continuing Anglican] Church for a short time.
@lauwai4life The whole point of this is to be in union with the Holy Father and the Universal Church, not be a part of a church which has separated itself from the apostolic succession of Peter.
Elizabethan Mass . From Queen Elizabeth I. Still maintain Traditional Catholic Mass.
Anglican is not too different with Roman Catholic.
coolerking04, I am not WISHING for the demise of the Roman Catholic Church, I am only describing the current situation. The French hate to keep such statistics, but it appears more Muslims go to prayer service on Friday than Catholics go to Mass on Sunday. Across the board, the figures are startling. No more than 20% of Spanish attend mass once a month. In Ireland, maybe because of recent horrific scandals, the church is withering. The Church cannot ignore this.
Historically, the Church of England -- since the Elizabethan Religious Settlement of 1559 -- has been characterized as a "gatebridge" between Catholicism and Protestantism. And Anglicanism -- the system of doctrines and liturgical practices -- reflects this compromise between the two traditions. It's not surprising, then, that Rome grants a special recognition to this faith that is distinguished from other forms of Protestantism.
@Peugeot908HDIFAP - Don't let RCIA discourage you. Hopefully, you have found a good parish.
@fatimamovement Don't forget that the Mystical Body of Christ exists in the hearts and souls of His people as well. I have to point out, however, that you have your history a bit off. The Tidentine expression of the Divine Liturgy did not come into existence until 1570 at the council of Trent, so if you wish to be so legalistic about the expression of the Liturgy, you should check out the Eastern Church, which has barely changed at all since Biblical times.
I'm hardly concerned with Pentacostalism, or Mormonism in Europe. I'm concerned with secularism. In Latin America and Africa, I am concerned with those movements. I don't think we can stick our heads in the sand and pretend these issues will just go away. Mormonism has been called "Scientology plus 170 years", but I don't think people much care about antiquity. I only bring these issues to light because they're important, and they concern me and many others. What should we do?
In any case, I disagree with your assertion that Henry VIII effected a schism. In what way did Mary I not restore Catholicism? Have you not heard of the Marian Persecutions? Was Cardinal Pole, later Archbishop of Canterbury not central in this sad chapter? How many horrific deaths did they order? Henry may have provided the occasion for Reformation theology to enter England, but it was only a matter of time one way or the other. But there is more going on here that you ignore (cont).
I'm not judging anyone. I'm simply stating the fact that the Catholic Church views the Anglican Communion as being Protestant. Anglicans are in no more in perfect communion with the Pontiff than any other Protestant group. You may disagree with the Catholic Church but that's on you.
I did not say you were "WISHING" for the demise of the Church. I am well aware of the current situation and while things seem to be in crisis, historically speaking there is always some kind of crisis. Also, claims of the death of the Church in Europe are greatly exagerated.
The French statistics are always skewed because a large number of French Catholics are in SSPX (for better of for worse.)
I would suggest you alert SanLewy of this. I've always found the ignorance of typical roman catholics a bit amusing, and certainly self serving. Mary restored England to Roman Catholicism after succeeding her half brother, Edward VI to the English throne. In the process, she had almost 300 religious dissenters burned at the stake in the Marian Persecutions, That of course famously included Thomas Cranmer, first Archbishop free of Rome. Henry VIII was NOT the 'founder' of a new church.
@Peugeot908HDIFAP You'll find most Catholic masses are dire. I guess you'll also find that the only theological line you'll find is the official conservative line. Most Catholics are as, if not more Liberal, than many Anglicans in reality. I'm Catholic but I prefer Anglican worship
@s216674 Here here!
@fatimamovement
'Tis already the middle of october, and thy humble prediction hath not been fulfilled.
Nope. The Catholic Church considers the Anglican Communion to be Protestant. You could become a Latin Rite Catholic and attend a parish that celebrates the Mass using the Anglican Use provision as dipicted here...
@MenechemShaul the faithful will return to Rome.
You need to refine your research. I would direct you to the documents of Vatican II. Specifically the "Decree on Ecumenism"
'Unitatis Redintegratio'
"CHAPTER III
CHURCHES AND ECCLESIAL COMMUNITIES SEPARATED FROM THE ROMAN APOSTOLIC SEE
13. We now turn our attention to the two chief types of division as they affect the seamless robe of Christ.
(cont above)
Quam Pulchram!
@EmanonElazon Not even 'popular' where I am. Just stripped down to it's literal bones boredom. Minus the 1 minute homily the services don't do good ritual but stick to the core order of service to be 'pure'. No bells, no smells, minimum vestments, minimum use of iconography, candles or inspiring hymns or song. No kneeling for communion and pressure to not receive in hand. Fluffy homilies that I see as intellectually mundane and dishonest in downplaying, or skipping over, church doctrine.
@vladimir998 Don't listen to the archschismatic, the Lord will deal with him in His own time.
@MenechemShaul False! Read our Catechism. The Catholic Church observes Sunday as our Holy Day because of Christ's resurecction. The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath.
In any case, none of this strikes me as nearly as significant as other developments occurring in both traditions. The R.C. Church is on life support in Europe as is nearly every Christian tradition. Pentecostalism is exploding in Latin America, as is Mormonism (of all things). Few Catholics in the U.S. appear to be listening to church teachings. -- While it may be comforting to proclaim one's spiritual superiority, can Christianity- the faith we ALL proclaim, suffer this childishness?
Absolutely not...
There is no such thing as "Anglican Catholic Church in union with Rome." There is an Anglican-use provision within the Latin (Roman) Rite of the Church.
Byzantine Catholics and other Eastern Catholics are true suri juris churches as part of the Catholic Church (not the "Roman Catholic Church."
No we can't stick our heads in the sand. The solution to the problems you mention is 1-Reverence in liturgy, 2-Better education, aka beauty and truth, the time tested "weapons" of the Church.
@king052206 DATING DAAN!
Anglicans sing; Roman Catholics don't.
In any case, I find current developments increasingly irrelevant given the position of Christianity in Europe, and increasingly in the States. Regardless of tradition, Christianity in Europe is on life support. Roman Catholic strongholds like Latin America are increasingly turning to the worst kind of traditions including Pentecostalism and Mormonism. The issues involving R. Catholics and Anglicans will become insignificant, and pompous comments typical of SanLewy anachronistic.
One can argue church history and theology ad nauseum. I am not concerned about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. But the church, and by that I mean any legitimate expression of Christianity, is in crisis. It is all but dead in Europe, dying a slow death even in the U.S., and in much of the developing world veering away from any sort of orthodox Christianity toward cultism. THESE are the things that we should be concerned with don't you think?