I experienced the leftist anti-semitic in discussions with my friends in the 1980s, who were shouting me down because I defended Israel. They didn't want to listen to any of my arguments and they told me years later that they thought I was a Nazi. Leftist havn't changed in the last 50 years in their anti-semitism, and you still can't argue with them, because they 'know' they are right. I am glad a few leftist are comming around. Best wishes from Germany. I stand with Israel. Schalom
I experienced similar, but I always win the debate. My grandfather fought in WW2, and he saw the unthinkable with the holocaust. I am a member of a growing movement against antisemitism, and I stand my ground.
It blows their minds when you inform them that Israel has socialized medicine and higher education for all of its citizens of all faiths and that no other country in the Middle East does.
Back in the early 1980s when I first started college I could tell which of my professors were communists and could never survive in any professional environment outside of academia. They simply didn’t have the social skills to compromise or keep their mouths shut in a professional environment.
I'm left wing and I support Israel. I never used to; I used to follow the same narrative as the above - although I'm not Jewish. Then one day I ended up on a date with someone who had studied the conflict - and she started to correct me on issues I had absolutely no idea about. That led me down my own rabbit hole, it became a special interest and now I support Israel fully and can even pick up on many points of history that people are often wrong about. There's a real lack of education about this issue, and one of the biggest problems is that the left wingers often feel like they're above reproach, moral, integrous and 'right' - and yet they don't know the truth and often don't want to hear it.
Similar experience but I was on the correcting side. Sadly the woman I was on a date with was less open minded and said afterwards that the difference in politics was a deal breaker. Hopefully she will at some point wake up and realize how poisonous the kool aid she was drinking is. Respect on your journey :)
If one would like to delve into the subject more in-depth, do you have any recommendations for books or websites with trustworthy and unbiased information?
@@LGBarealltheletters I would say that you need to research a lot of sources. You'll find that most of the pro-Palestine books either start at 1948 or completely miss out huge chunks of other history - for example, they often miss out the fact that there was never a Palestinian state, and that the region was made up of both Israel and what we now call Jordan. Pro-Palestine narrators can also speak about the Jews as if they were European colonialists who just swanned in on a whim - forgetting that Arabs are from the Arabian Peninsula, and they were the true colonialists. They'll also promote an idea that Jews and Arabs got along like best friends, ignoring the Jewish status as 'dhimmi' under Islamic rule and how they were forced to pay extra taxes and subject to other restrictions. There's a book 'The Case for Israel' that's very good, but even that is flawed. amzn.to/4ccvBaR Norman Finkelstein accuses the author of plagiarism - but Finkelstein nitpicks over minor details quite a lot. Regardless of the source, the information is generally correct. I'd say the history of Zionism as a refugee movement from the pogroms in Eastern Europe is also a good starting point. But also, the treatment of Jews under the various Caliphates, including the Ottoman Empire. The Balfour Declaration was probably the event that incited Arabs to start attacking Jews in 1920 - but all that was really doing was legitimising a movement that was already underway. The riots in the 1920s led to Churchill's White Paper that clarified the Balfour Declaration and prompted the division of Palestine into Jewish Palestine and Arab Palestine - also known as Transjordan. Not many people realise that this was the original two-state solution and demonstrates that handing over 70% of the land to Arabs was still not enough. Also, very few people realise that it was always Arabs who attacked first.
No, she is a proof that the correct upbringing means everything. She and other bozos should know history and be raised with the firm authentic identity. She had nothing. This hugging babbling is neither upbringing nor education.
I'm just like this woman. I fell for the false narrative from the pro-palestinian side and it started in my world history class. I was always for a Jewish state but I fell for the lies of colonism, etc. Now I know the truth through research and learning that Jews always lived there. I hate that I was misinformed. The moment I left the anti-Israel side was the encampments and the Jew hate in said encampments. I thought choosing Jewish Voice for Peace help me avoid any Jew hate, but I was wrong, dead wrong. I care about human rights so I hate that I fell for a false narrative. The right thing for me to do is stand up for the Jewish people and fight back against propaganda and misinformation.
I too fee pain and anger, but in the end we have to reflect our own role in this balagan - and accept that we have to approach it with love in order to heal and grow even stronger. Shalom
*the original jewish people were dark brown people, with long nose, and straight hair, but most of the true jewish people were converted to muslims, and CHRISTIANS, BECAUSE THE PERSECUTIONS OF BOTH NONE JEWS AND FAKE JEW WHITE SKIN PALE SUPRE.MAC.ISTS. FACT.*
students ARE little kids. I am 40 (not even that old) and I remember what kind of an idiot I was when I was 20 :) That's why Qatari subversion works so well on them.
I’ve always been pro Israel because I was concerned with Jews and a lot of Jews live there, but somewhat vaguely so. I started in recent years to look closer, expecting that what I learned would increase my sympathy with the Palestinian position. The exact opposite happened. The closer I looked, the more moral Israel got, and the less moral the Palestinian cause got in a whole lot of respects, one of the chief ones being that the pro-Palestinian movement has never been about Palestinians at all but about Jews. The pro Palestinian movement does not actually value Palestinian people. There’s so much I didn’t know, like the day I decided to look up where the Jewish Quarter in Jerusalem was and found that it was in East Jerusalem. It’s unbelievable that no one bothers to say this. I didn’t know that the only way Jews got land in Palestine for nearly seventy years was to purchase it, the most ethical founding of a nation in world history. I didn’t know that Transjordan did not include the West Bank or East Jerusalem but that Jordan conquered both, East Jerusalem with British help. I didn’t know that when Transjordan was established in the early 1920’s that one of the first things they did was prohibit Jews. I didn’t know that the Jewish refugee population in the Arab world was greater than the Arab refugee population coming from Israel, and the stark differences in how both populations were treated by their people. I had no knowledge of the 1964 pan-Arab conference in Cairo where the KGB advised founding the PLO, essentially turning a population that mostly viewed itself as Syrian Arabs into a population that would, as of 1967, start calling themselves Palestinians, or that no Arabs called themselves Palestinians until Jews started to return. I at least knew that the Khazar theory had been debunked and that Ashkenazim have been genetically proven to have mostly Levantine ancestry (which I’d figured out because otherwise there would be no Ashkenaz Cohenim.) I didn’t know that the Arab population of Israel had more rights, freedoms, and prosperity than any other Arab population in the Middle East, that they comprised more than 20% of Israel’s citizens, and that neither the PA nor Hamas accepted Jews at all as a matter of policy, even if those Jews had continuous ancestry in Palestine from modern times. I didn’t know about Israel being the only UN member with enough seniority to serve on the rotating seat in the Security Council that hadn’t been permitted to, or that the number of UN resolutions critical of Israel outnumbered resolutions critical of the rest of the UN membership combined. I didn’t know that the Arab world had fewer than four thousand Jews left while Israel has two million Arab citizens. I didn’t know that a lot of the embassies in Cairo used to be Jewish homes. I didn’t know that until October 7 that Syria was killing more Palestinians than Israel was every year but no one said a word about those Palestinians because the only value of Palestinians to the rest of the world is as a weapon to delegitimize Israel, and in fact that’s why the Palestinians were created as a people in the first place. I didn’t know how great the failure of Arab countries has been when it comes to integrating Palestinian refugees - in Lebanon, they’re still in refugee camps when most of the actual refugees died of old age and we’re looking at multiple generations of their descendants born in Lebanon but treated as foreign. This comment alone would shock the crap out of most of the anti-Zionist students, particularly the Jewish ones.j
I really love her explanation of Jewish people being an indigenous people. Yes! This talk gave me more ideas and more confidence frankly to hold my ground when confronted with obvious or subtle forms of antisemitism. I am a middle aged Christian women, and i will not back down in my belief that the Jewish people, your religion and culture and history should be respected and protected.
We are SO indigenous, our land is so special, when we exist in our land it flourishes, when we don’t it just doesn’t react well, literally on the agricultural level and it has been seen through history. I always love to say that it’s not only that we are indigenous to the land, the land is also indigenous to us! Because it reacts to us, like it doesn’t react to no other nation. So I think we are the core definition of being indigenous and we are indigenous not only by physical power but by cosmic spiritual levels.
Yup. People forget that Israel is actually openly friendly to Arabs and peaceful Arab Muslims (some of which are allowed to live and work in Israel). However, would Hamas allowed religious Jews to live peacefully in Gaza? Nope. They also forget about how one of the Islamic grand Mufti's of Jerusalem deliberately met with Hitler in hopes for help in removing the Jewish people. Even some Muslims now look with favor on Hitler because the shared hatred or dislike of Jews.
*the original jewish people were dark brown people, with long nose, and straight hair, but most of the true jewish people were converted to muslims, and CHRISTIANS, BECAUSE THE PERSECUTIONS OF BOTH NONE JEWS AND FAKE JEW WHITE SKIN PALE SUPRE.MAC.ISTS. FACT.*
Zionism bears all the hallmarks of fascism. 1) The desire to return to a mythical, glorious past ie. Ancient Israel 2) Populist right wing authoritarianism 3) Master race/Chosen people delusions 4) A desire to wipe out a race deemed inferior 5) A charismatic strongman leader
As a sepharade Jew I cannot understand how an ashkénaze Jew could be anti Israël, that's where my ancestors are from, my family was expelled from Israël and différents Arab countries along history
they are brain washed. did you ever read Israeli news from the "הארץ" "שיחה מקומית" Chanel 12 and so on, they tell a lot of misinformation, half-lies and sometimes even fabricate history to spread hate and guilt. they are founded by organizations that get money from foreign sources. once the government tried to pass a law that requires ganizations to report to the government and show the public where they get the money than they screamed that it's death to democracy and the politicians gave up. and they are backed up by the people of the system that believe that if Israel is not communist country than it has no right to exist.
Historically most Jews have always tried to do their best to fit in wherever they found themselves. Partly it’s good manners. Partly it’s because throughout history Jews who rose their heads up tended to lose them. I’m Ashkenazi on my Dad’s side. His people came from Eastern Europe sometime in the latter portion of the 19th century, I believe. The American Strouse’s were pretty wealthy at one point but like a lot of other folks we lost most of what we had after the 1929 Stock Market Crash. The family as a whole had never been all that religious & my dad’s a pretty staunch atheist. I didn’t receive any instruction. I know a pretty fair bit about my mom’s fam but not my dad’s. My mom’s family’s mixed English & Scottish with bunch of other Continental stuff thrown in. Dad’s people were all Eastern European Ashkenazi. The ones who weren’t stateside when the Nazis and Russkies got their act going didn’t make it out. Like I said I’m not religious but I’ve never been able to fathom how any halfway educated Jewish-American could turn against history. I was raised to care about justice & doing the right thing & that a lot of other people have had it bad throughout history. I’ve also studied a lot of history, though, and even though I’m Jewish on the wrong side of the family for religious purposes and I can pass for generic whitebread America I also know damn well that when things aren’t going so well in the world & the mob starts looking for scapegoats they always start looking for Jews.
Historically most Jews have always tried to do their best to fit in wherever they found themselves. Partly it’s good manners. Partly it’s because throughout history Jews who rose their heads up tended to lose them. I’m Ashkenazi on my Dad’s side. His people came from Eastern Europe sometime in the latter portion of the 19th century, I believe. The American Strouse’s were pretty wealthy at one point but like a lot of other folks we lost most of what we had after the 1929 Stock Market Crash. The family as a whole had never been all that religious & my dad’s a pretty staunch atheist. I didn’t receive any instruction. I know a pretty fair bit about my mom’s fam but not my dad’s. My mom’s family’s mixed English & Scottish with bunch of other Continental stuff thrown in. Dad’s people were all Eastern European Ashkenazi. The ones who weren’t stateside when the Nazis and Russkies got their act going didn’t make it out. Like I said I’m not religious but I’ve never been able to fathom how any halfway educated Jewish-American could turn against history. I was raised to care about justice & doing the right thing & that a lot of other people have had it bad throughout history. I’ve also studied a lot of history, though, and even though I’m Jewish on the wrong side of the family for religious purposes and I can pass for generic whitebread America I also know damn well that when things aren’t going so well in the world & the mob starts looking for scapegoats they always start looking for Jews.
*the original jewish people were dark brown people, with long nose, and straight hair, but most of the true jewish people were converted to muslims, and CHRISTIANS, BECAUSE THE PERSECUTIONS OF BOTH NONE JEWS AND FAKE JEW WHITE SKIN PALE SUPRE.MAC.ISTS. FACT.*
No, it comes from indoctrination. The Left see Jews as the International Brigade, they cannot influence something that is not wholly integrated so they find ways to alienate and isolate it. The Left refuses to see Israelis as anything other than White European Colonialists. They won't hear about the Oriental Jews, Spanish Jews, Mizrahi Jews, Ethiopian Jews, ONLY Ashkenazi Jews. The Left are essentially National Socialists. People like Chomsky or Said are at the vanguard of this Hatred.
It's a successful campaign of Hamas brainwashing across all media mixed with antisemitism from left and right. Hamas would rather see its whole population die than see this narrative end.
The idea that Jews are Europeans and "white" and Arabs are "brown" is so ridiculous. My wife is half-morrocan, all her morrocan family has skin as pale as me, European. Arabic and Hebrew languages are so close, their cultures are so close, their appearance is so close - how can you possibly count one semitic ethnicity as "middle eastern", and another semitic ethnicity as "european"?
Most Jews do tan pretty well. 😉 Seriously, though, there ARE a LOT of black & brown Jewish lineages. The diaspora began around the Med & stretched out through Europe, North Africa & beyond. There may not be a lot of us but the diaspora began a long, long time ago. Our ancestors clustered mostly around the Mediterranean basin but the Med was pretty damn multi-ethnic back in the day. Right wing Jew-haters don’t think we’re just not white enough while lefty antisemites have convinced themselves that Israel is filled with shifty Europeans who invented Auschwitz just so they could run back to the Holy Land, displace honest Arabs and take their jerbs! The paranoiacs see Jews everywhere. We kinda were, but in small numbers. There wasn’t anything sinister about it though. Historically Jews have mostly kept their heads down & tried to fit in wherever they ended up. This was largely a matter of good sense, necessity & neighborlinesss. When shit started to get really real during the European pograms of the mid/late 19th century a lot of Jews fled to America. In the years prior to and after WWII it was something of a split. Today roughly 85% of the world’s Jews live in either the US or Israel. American Jews are predominantly Ashkenazi European. Israel is more multi-ethnic. After 1948 the Arab & North Africans states were sore as hell about getting their assess whooped and made life even more difficult for their Jews than they already were. But now that there was a place for them to go they went there. They went to Israel. There are fewer than 10k Jews left in the Arab world and North Africa outside of Israel. Inside Israel you can get a little glimpse of what the world looked like when civilization looked like (ethnically speaking) when the Greeks & Romans were writing most of the histories, just a lot more concentrated. I have an old friend who worked in Israeli intelligence. Second generation. She didn’t talk a lot about most of her work obviously but one thing that became very clear to me as our relationship developed was that one of the reasons why Israeli intelligence historically been so effective and so dangerous is because compared to its enemies it’s so much more diverse. Not DEI-style diverse or early ‘90s Benetton ad diverse. This was the real deal. They could send people who could fit them in comfortably because they were so diverse, so cosmopolitan. America is kinda shit at HUMINT cause we’re such yokels.
You can’t, but that’s the thing-antisemitism was never logical and never really made sense, it was and still is a result of pure hate and maybe on the good case-very bad education that still stems from our hate.
Her observations are astute. She accurately describe the narratives that the well-intentioned students are told, and it does feed anti-Semitism. This is not to say that Israel is without problems or a complicated hosted. But the situation is getting spun into simplistic, maximalists views. Thank you.
Their hearts may be in the right place, but relying on emotional responses just makes you easy to manipulate. Sad fact: there are loads of people who will use anything, including both your good and bad motivations, against your best interests.
Israel needs to reach out to us; the Jews disconnected from our history, language, and culture. We don't speak Hebrew or Yiddish anymore. Our grandparents did, but we were raised as Westerners. Teach us Hebrew, bring us home.
nobody can pour Hebrew into your head. If you want to learn, you can easily learn. Don't expect your own country to be served to you on a platter. Go and help to build it :)
@@todorkolev7565 What do you mean, "You're own country"? The point is, we're NOT Israeli. And of course, Hebrew lessons are online for megabucks plus per/wk. But, who the hell can afford that?
Isn’t that your parents’ fault? My dad is from Mexico and although I don’t know as much Spanish as I should, we would go to Mexico every year and I knew that culture while still appreciating American and western values and culture.
@silentvoice4970 you don't need money to study Hebrew, and to jet a J1 visa to make aliyah, is free as well. Or just go down to your local Israeli embassy, apply for your Right of Return or refugee status. ArtScroll is a great resource.
So glad to hear you call out people who use the word "Zionist". People who use the Z-word when they talk about Jews are doing the same thing as people who use the N-word when they talk about Black people. It's reprehensible and people using those words should be called out as haters for doing that.
you got it all upside down. N-word is derogatory. Zionist is a positive word. Zionism is Israeli patriotism. The wonderful people who built Israel were from the Zionistic movement. Zion is another name for Jerusalem. Unlike N-word, if someone calls me a Zionist, it's correct (and somewhat flattering). Get it our of your head that Zionism is a bad word - it never was.
@@todorkolev7565I agree that it is a positive thing but it has been hijacked and turned into something to weaponize against Jews. Also, the variations people use, like “zionazi” makes me so angry.
@@todorkolev7565 I am sorry I wasn't clear. When Black people use the N-word, like ion their rap songs, it is not derogatory or reprehensible. When the anti-semite and pro-palestinian, pro-arab, pro rape an behead people use it it's the N-word. I assure you that they are using it as a reprehensible curse word. Get it now? Just look at the posts and see if you can't differentiate when the Z-word IS the N-word.
@@ms-zi4wcno I don’t get it . I love my Jewish friends , family , and neighbors . I am disgusted by the actions of the state of Israel . I use the word Zionist to describe the people condoning and endorsing those actions . I am happy to use different word choices if the society agrees on more accurate terms , but for me this distinction is very clear .
Let's task these students with finding a solution for peace. You can only stay in your tents if you come up with ten good ideas a day to solve the problem, without violence. These are the great minds of tomorrow, use your brain power and creativity and come up with solutions.
One of my parents was a Holocaust survivor and in no way did I have her experience, or her “narrative”. And what can she do to undo the damage she caused, and probably resulted in the murder of Jews.
@NorseMythology-pv1eg No, that wouldn't. Every such activist backs terrorists up and emboldens them, they feel like they're protected and can get away with anything they do. What do they do? They kill Jews for their cause. And leftists defend those people hysterically and passionately.
*THE ORIGUNAL JEWISH PEOPLE COMSE NOT FROM MIDDLE 20 CENTURY GERMANY BUT 2K HEARS AGO, STARRTING THE EARLY MIDDLE AGES THE WHITE EUROPEAN WERE MAKING THEIR OWN SELF CONEVRSION..*
@@moonshinesa8234 What the OP meant is that the actions that the person being inteviewed had taken probably resulted in the deaths of Jewish people which is very likely. Many of these liberal swine have been instrumental in the deaths of Jewish people through their covert activities, and today I'm supposed to feel comfort in the fact that they have managed to 'shed their anti-semitism'. I dont buy in to this at all and its not my job to 'forgive' an anti-semite even if they are one of our own. Let G-d deal with her.
What is amusing about the anti-colonialism movement (if we can call it that) is everyone that is anti-colonialism lives on colonized land. If they rent they are contributing to the profiteering of colonialism, if they own land then they themselves are colonists and I don’t see anyone giving their land back.
To narrow their paradigm down to one simple thought, "If you are WHITE you are the oppressor. If you are Black, arab or Indian you are "the oppressed". Being "oppressed, these people feel entitled to take what you (WHITE people) have since they don't want to work for it and build anything and you only have it because you oppressed them. Obama threw that thought into a speech he made and i was appalled. This is not the paradigm for people of all races and ethnic groups. Many of them are just people like you and me who work hard and earn the things they have. It's the paradigm for people who don't work, have few skills and simply feel entitled to take what YOU have worked for, using the "oppressed" reasoning inherent in the "anti-colonialist" paradigm.
i remember in high school in 1988/89 a lot of my fellow students were obsessed with the anti-Israel narrative. When the teacher introduced the Holocaust in class, one student piped up ""What about the Israelis? killing those poor Palestinians'
A very strong, articulate and convincing advocate for us. Her story should be widely told. What we have to contend with, at this moment, however is how within Israel there is a movement, a faction, a sector that is playing out the horrible stereotypes. Some call it the Settler movement, but it is so much more than that. It's a cohort with a completely different vision of what Israel should be. The Kahanist movement exemplifies it, and to a great extent it was ignored, or denied, or just not attended to by the part of Israel that they are not. Consequently they have achieved a renegade or rogue power, allowing Israel's enemies on the left to define them as Israel. Indeed they have confiscated Palestinian land on the West Bank, by force. They have killed many Palestinians (and please don't say their victims were terrorists; they were not). Some of the IDF "protecting" the settlements are of their group. This is more of an existential threat to the State of Israel than all of its outside enemies.
I don’t agree with your reaction to what we are commenting beneath , but I do appreciate your recognizing the threat to Israel from within that comes from extremists . If there is any hope for reconciliation - justice - peace In the future , it will be because a silent majority on both sides assert themselves and silence their violent extremist minorities . So far … not happening .
Thx for the wonderful show. I just want to make sure that Germany gave Israel in the ESC 8 points from the Jury and 12 points from the televote. since you stated that germany gave no points to israel.- best from hamburg
What confuses me is she says that she was awoken into how much of this fascet of her life was falsified, but doesn’t question up any of her other opinions
Very simple. Patriotism = love for your country / Nation ( USA, England, Austrlia and others western countries ) Zionism = love for your country ( Israel )
What I'd like to understand is why she took so long and what led her to such a nonsense and hateful worldview to start with, all while thinking she had positive morals. The flotilla wasnt long ago.
Only when it is divorced from a proper Jewish education. When all that’s left is a venue concept of tikun olam with no proper framework for what that means, and how to accomplish it, then yes, it can be very damaging.
Indeed. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. But also this 'tikum olam' has been corrupted and mischaracterized. The proper way to interpret it would be to lead by example, but the way the liberal brain dead morons would have us all meddling in the affairs of otheres business before we clean up our own backyard.
"Goodness" from humanism has a long history of being corrupted, because people's hearts and minds will blindly cling to things.... *Discernment and reflection are critical skills*
על איזה שטויות אתה מדבר, תיקון עולם זה קונספט הלכתי שכמעט כל היהודים לא(!) מאמינים בו. פשוט גיבוב שטויות אנטישמי, ניסיון צר לקטלג את כל היהודים תחת מטריה אחת, ניסיון מנוכר, שמקורו בבורות, ואין בו כל בסיס. רוב היהודים לא מאמינים בקונספט ה-'גאולה', אבל אתה מפיץ שטויות כאילו אתה יודע במה מדובר, מי אנחנו, ובמה אנחנו מאמינים.
A radical mugged by reality. At least she's no longer casing damage. How much harm has been wrought by "good intentions" and a desire to improve the world? Selfishness causes so much less disruption.
Her family is Iraqi. My family is from French Algiers and Morocco. They were forced out because they were Jews, before Israel came home. People need to always question what they are told and verify what they are told are as facts. Good way to perpetuate lies.
While I appreciate her overall shift, there's still some troublesome language going on: 12:27 - "new programming"? What she should be saying is we have to teach factual history, NOT programming. That's precisely what got us in to this mess. She goes on to say at 12:42 "... no we're not the bad guys... we're not these white European colonists...", which is problematic on so many levels. Are those the same "bad guys" that built the western system of democracy and freedom Israel owes its current existence and values to that people like her love espousing, by chance? I could go on.
You are so right. It’s almost hilarious to her her try to find counter arguments of why “these kids” (condescending) see Zionists as colonisers / oppressors. She really HAS not arguments at all. A part from some lies here and there - for instance that the IDF is “the most moral army”
I don't think she has learned all that much. She simply became aware that she herself is a target of people like her. If not for that she wouldn't have changed at all.
Exactly, like she said herself, her values haven't changed. Her whole identity is being a leftwing radical. She even acknowledges the anti white racism in the extreme lefts world view, but only managed to move within the paradigm to try decouple Jewishness and Zionism from the evil "white colonialists", rather than break free of it. It only became a problem for her because she didn't expect to find herself inside her secular tribes outgroup.
This type of back-and-forth talking generalities about these people, those people is never-ending. Talk instead about specific actions, no matter who is behind them. Then you may actually be able to change the world for the better! If not, we'll just be arguing until the cows come home about whose fault it was. "All the Lefties/Rightwingers/Fascists/Jews/Arabs/MAGAs/... they are all like that!!!!"
Never let a group influence you to loose your own individuality. Everyone needs to watch the wave (1981) as immediate homework and maybe we can get out of this evil woke world.
*the original jewish people were dark brown people, with long nose, and straight hair, but most of the true jewish people were converted to muslims, and CHRISTIANS, BECAUSE THE PERSECUTIONS OF BOTH NONE JEWS AND FAKE JEW WHITE SKIN PALE SUPRE.MAC.ISTS. FACT.*
@@goldencalf5144"Zionizm" as an organized movement, sure, but over history there were countless waves of migrations back to Israel by countless J--ish communities, many of whom from the middle east (most noteably Egypt and Yemen) - that's how important J--wish scholars like Mimonidas and Issac Luria ended up buried in places like Tiberias and Safed.
@@eidorm.7953 Yeah, there wasn't a problem with those previous migrations because they weren't seeking to colonise the land and displace the indigenous people. Indeed, these earlier migrants were mostly welcome by the Arabs and they lived in peace until the arrival of the Zionists. Zionism on the other hand, was always a settler colonial project. Herzl and Jabotinsky said as much.
Im not from a jewish background. I studied jewish history because i wanted to understand why this people have been so villified. I can come to only one conclusion...jealousy. jealosy of their resilience ingenuity and their ability to question everything from every angle including their own God but especially their personal need to leave the world better than what they found it. I stand with Israel. Israel is the homeland. "By the rivers of babylon where welay down yea we wept when we remember Zion"
I get a feeling that's a significant part of it too. Trudy Gold, historian with a specialty in understanding the factors leading up to the Holocaust and the birth of Israel talks about that, as well as the familiar concept of the scapegoat as being a key driver in the pogroms. Because the exiled Jews at least belonged to nowhere and everywhere, always on the edges of the society they lived in (the Ashkenazim at least), they were an easy group to target and 'other'. Country's in financial turmoil? Blame the Jews. Sick of all those funny lookin', funny speakin' immigrants flooding your country taking your jobs and running the shops and doing better than your family? Blame the Jews. Your own culture is lost after years of wars, corrupt leadership and territory disputes and it's hard to feel proud of who you are? Blame the Jews.
No one wants to see anyone dying. How can we make that happen? Answer that and we can find common ground. It’s finding the love and caring about people (all people) speak to that, not the picking sides for sides sake. An Eye for an eye leaves us all blind.
possibly from studying intellectuals like Edward Said and Rashid Khalidi (he's been muddying the waters with his PLO- flavoured sentiments for a long time). I think probaby Ilan Pappe and Norman Finkelstein get a hearing precisely because they are Jews with negative views on Israel, so the unis can hide behind their Jewishness and say 'see! we're both-sidesing!' or something.
one ODD irrational concept --> IF Colonialism is an act against Indigenous (those with birthright).... and protecting birthright of Indigenous is "good".... then WHY is the **term birthright** "bad"?? super confusing how such dissonance at one word happens... while they are supposedly protecting the concept, but fighting the word?
The notion of Jews being "colonialists" is farcical even on purely technical grounds. True colonialists always come from a so-called "metropole" - a sovereign state or entity which exports part of its titular population into a newly acquired or conquered territory. This was the case with Greek colonists of Magna Graecia in Italy and North Africa, who came from various independent Greek city-states (and oftentimes enslaved or expelled the native tribes away from their colony sites, like in Sicily), this was doubly true with Roman colonists all over the Roman republic and empire, this was true for Phoenician colonists of Carthage who came from their metropole of Tyre in Lebanon, and then for Punic colonists in Spain, Sicily and Sardinia who came from Carthage itself. Same thing with Arab-Islamic colonialism that turned Assyrians, Aramaeans, Copts and Berbers into minorities in their own countries - the Arabs came from the newly unified Arabian caliphate, their metropole. Same with the European colonialism - British colonialists came from the metropole of Britain, French ones from France etc. A metropole is the one thing that the diaspora Jews who emigrated to the Land of Israel NEVER HAD! They cannot be called colonialists BY DEFINITION - because they didn't come from any sovereign entity of their own.
Sorry that was a long paragraph you wrote just to be wrong . Look it up . There are newspaper clippings from the 1890’s announcing meetings of the Zionist Congress to discuss the “ Colonization of Palestine “. Their word choices ; 130 years ago , not mine .
Please anyone....What is the name of the so called "Ex- Anti-Israeli Extremist"? I'm on a mission to protect a member of my family and would like to follow up. Can't say more. Thank you and shalom, may our eyes be opened and remain so.
*the original jewish people were dark brown people, with long nose, and straight hair, but most of the true jewish people were converted to muslims, and CHRISTIANS, BECAUSE THE PERSECUTIONS OF BOTH NONE JEWS AND FAKE JEW WHITE SKIN PALE SUPRE.MAC.ISTS. FACT.*
@OhUiginn Israel defying ICJ ruling to prevent genocide by failing to allow adequate humanitarian aid to reach Gaza One month after the International Court of Justice (ICJ) ordered “immediate and effective measures” to protect Palestinians in the occupied Gaza Strip from the risk of genocide by ensuring sufficient humanitarian assistance and enabling basic services, Israel has failed to take even the bare minimum steps to comply, Amnesty International said today. I never heard of anyone in north Korea being denied WATER. But several people have died because of dehydration in gaza.
@@nosuchthing8 No one is starving or dying through dehydration in Gaza because of Israel. Hamas is stealing supplies which Israel is delivering to the People of Gaza.
@@nosuchthing8 Amnesty are full of it, don't seem to understand what constitutes occupation under international law, or they do and are politically invested in lying, and it really comes down to whom you believe. I've seen pics of stockpiled aid in Gaza that no one was accessing. It wasn't the IDF blocking its distribution. The pier is working better than expected and delivering aid . The pier is partly destroyed - whom do you believe? Israel alone were bringing in hundreds of trucks to deliver around 3x the daily calorie requirements for Gazans, over and above what the ICJ ruled. Al Jazeera et al be saying that they're blocking it and deliberately starving people. I've seen countless vids from inside Gaza selling Israeli fruit and vegetables on the street markets - good quality, abundant quantities. I've seen Gazans looting said trucks, shooting at and throwing large stones at, with windscreens shot in and injuring or running over people, driven by Egyptian aid volunteers. Not Israel's fault. Israel are not denying people water, nor are they responsible for them! When have you ever heard of an army being held responsible for the civilian population of the 'enemy' forces while the enemy government themselves steal aid, hide in tunnels and deliberately starve people to boost the death count cos it looks good for a propaganda war (the only one they're going to win)?
Is it normal and acceptable that a "millions of people" to believe in extermination of a entire nation of Israel. Read about Sahih Hadith "It has been narrated by 'Umar b. al-Khattib that he heard the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) say: I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim." So we are not talking here about a "normal" people and a normal Western democratic values, but about the extreme and death cult believes that originates in the history and believes of that "occupied people". For an Arab to make peace with Jews is like not believing in they own prophet and that is not acceptable for them. And that is the reality. We have to stop that!
You should ask hamas, they have kept their people dirt poor while they steal their money that the world send every month....they got money for war, but can't feed the poor 👎
Third time watching this: my impression of what she said: She WAS previously a radial human rights activist from equality for EVERY minority. Then - in some way got in to an extreme jewish nationalistic environment that embraced her with open arms and made her believe that jewish history and her Jewish identity would be far more important than human rights for Palestinians. Therefore she is now STILL a human rights advocate for ALL minorities … - however with the “tiny” exception that of all the minorities she fights for human rights for - PALESTINIANS are conveniently ignored.
I share your exact thoughts my friend. It’s saddening to see that someone left-leaning fell for propaganda so easily. Countless millionaires and politicians peddle this kind of rhetoric despite being openly antisemitic themselves, e.g. John Hagee. But supposedly the "real" antisemites are the people who oppose the illegal displacement of millions of people and the slaughter of tens of thousands without cause.
They are ignorant. If they KNEW they were ignorant, they wouldn't be ignorant. Which part of this simple equation don't you understand? The fault lies with those who KNOW that what they say and teach is wrong, but do it nonetheless.
I was HOPING this video would be a jumping off point for some sort of debate on these issues. Instead, this video promotes the idea that anything israel does can be justified by using the antisemitism card. That won't work, many jewish thinkers like norman finkelstein (sp?) would disagree.
Yeah, she doesn’t present any facts in this video to refute that the Israeli govt is ethnically cleansing Palestinians out of Gaza. She’s not a serious person
Critical thinking, as a privileged person, requires blithely believing victim narratives with no further consideration. Knowledge of history or geopolitics is not necessary in order to be entitled to a loud opinion, and there is no need to understand context or take perspective when your righteous indignation tells you to identify with whoever has the most insane demands.
Churchill, who was one of the people who fought the most against the fascists, said that Zionism is the way he hopes the Jews will follow and avoid communism, because Zionism leads Jews back to the path of their ancestors while communism does the opposite.
I am not a Jew. I live on my ancestral homelands, and it means something to me. So I do get that feeling. . I have questioned the colonialization, because jews in Israel could just as well be seen as UN-refugees coming to their designated place. . As to apartheid, that seems to apply to the Westbank, and the locals identifying as palestinians. . To me, looking from afar, it seems those who belong and feel at home between the Mediterranean and the Jordan river really need to talk, to listen and clarify concepts. . There seems to be a lot of unsanctioned hooliganism and obstructions to local inhabitant's who live there. . And, yes. I agree. Many protesting young jews, as well as others are good people. I have blocked numerous people who put laughing emojis on human suffering. These people pass that test, because they are empathetic. I would not call them self hating, just concerned, wanting justice. . People like you give me hope that Israel can and will find a better direction. . And, still: There is a lot to learn. Thanks for the insight.
It's hard for young Jewish Americans to avoid the attraction of the loud and proud majority voices on campuses today. And I know they see themselves as humanitarian and feel outraged by the news they consume regarding Gaza and the West Bank. Still, I would like to ask those who claim to be proud of their heritage but proclaim to be anti-zionists, when exactly did Jews go wrong and become oppressors? Was it when they legally bought land before coming as refugees in the decades before independence? Was the League of Nations' vote for Israel's statehood illegitimate? Should they have gone elsewhere despite their longstanding historical connection to the land? Or maybe when the Arabs started a war and lost, then demanded a right to return? Did Jews go wrong when countless attempts for peace failed because their Arab neighbors refused to acknowledge any right to exist, however small? Or was it when after countless attacks on innocent civilians, they were forced to ensure their safety?
I have this idealized vision of Israel, I think it is very similar to what the founders had in mind-multicultural, steadfastly democratic, but with Jews in charge so that we could have one tiny sliver in the world where we could truly have agency and self-determination in a world that can quickly turn against us for no reason other than our lineage or religion. However...what about the Jews on the extreme right who kill Muslims and destroy their homes in the West Bank? Jews are indigenous, yes, and a great many Muslims arrived with the Muslim Conquest or perhaps not even until the 20th century, but there has got to be a better way to deal with the situation in the West Bank than what we've been seeing for decades. Those extremists significantly alter the public perception of what Israel or Jewish identity is all about. It's endlessly frustrating.
I don’t agree that their hearts are in the right place. If you seek God everything falls in place. They have hate in their hearts so they can’t think or see clearly. Hence why they will not listen to the other side. Oh and Jesus is LORD 🙌🏼
*the original jewish people were dark brown people, with long nose, and straight hair, but most of the true jewish people were converted to muslims, and CHRISTIANS, BECAUSE THE PERSECUTIONS OF BOTH NONE JEWS AND FAKE JEW WHITE SKIN PALE SUPRE.MAC.ISTS. FACT.*
May Jesus forgive the Zionist Jews who have stolen the land that belongs to the descendants of Jesus’ first disciples (the Palestinian People). Jesus knows many of the Jewish People have lost their way, but they can come back. Theft is a sin. It’s one of the 10 Commandments. Rationalizing sin is also a sin.
@@chezbh "Palestine" has never been a country or a state. Infact the term was used by Hadrian as an insult to the Jews and the term now is used politically. It's a false term.
Ty for this interview it's so enlightening even though most of what's talked about is similar to what I went through as a Christian left wing activist. However, I've never heard of the flotilla (Ok I'm naive I thought that was a Latin food). This girl says she saw the footage and what went down, but I'm wondering where? What went down?
Yes. They dare to lie and call Israel a colonialist country even though the Jews are the natives of this land, while they take over the Western countries.
Islam is completely colonialist in nature. There are two houses of Islam. The house of Islam and the house of war. They are always at war and think everything belongs to them.
I don’t know which comment to respond to - such a mess of delusion . 1) this discussion about Zionism as a colonizing project could be over quickly if you go back and read the writings of the founders . They openly and proudly discussed it as the “ Colonization “ of Palestine , because that word had no baggage in the 1890’s. 2) “ Jews are natives “? Judaism is a religion - there is no DNA test for that . The myths about “ returning” Are just that - Myths . Read Schlomo Sand . Just as likely the majority of Jews did not leave the region 2000 years ago - they stayed put and converted to Christianity and Islam . 3) Who cares about ancient history anyway ? We need to deal with reality on the ground now . First most important is to stop prioritizing one group over the other with special rights and privileges . That is antithetical to Zionism as it is constructed , so it either needs to change or be recognized as the failed supremacist ideology that it is .
Islamist Students....Just ask all of them how they would balance the forced dispossession of the 1.2m Jews that lived in neighbouring countries (since 1880 in 1948 numbers) and the 600k Arabs that left Israel of their own accord due to invading Arab armies and apportion just compensation to both groups on an even per capita basis. Exclude Arab itinerant workers in Israel who should be termed temporary work visa holders, they and their children in 1920-1948 would quite possible have numbered 200k. Clearly the loss by the Jews of Arabia and the Middle East is many times greater than the Arabs of the Kingdom Israel. Consider also that the descendants of the Jews of Arabia and the Middle east number almost 6m in Israel today. Why should they ever be subservient to an Arab Islamist government. Study history and don't read Al Jazeera as it is run by the Brotherhood to further Islamic ideology. The 2 state solution was always Israel and Jordan The Syrian and Egyptian Arabs rejected the split to this day. The Gaza war casualties inflicted by IDF in reality are for women and children so low it would embarrass the BBC to report them.
Being indigenous is an interesting concept now, because it seems that everyone is indigineous apart from Jews in Israel and Europeans. If you are a white european, that term does not apply to you. But I am indigineous European /as far as I know/ just as other ethnicities are. Also, people act like Europe has no cultural heritage. It´s the cultural heritage of everybody elses that matter, which is sad. (Having said that, I do not wish to deny what white people have done around the world. But maybe people should realise that white people are not the root of all evil. People from all around the world have colonised and enslaved other people. It´s just popular now to talk about white europeans in that regard.
It seems like colonization to me. Looking at demographics the Jewish population was miniscule in Israel during the Ottoman empire. 1.7% at one point. Most of the hostility in the Middle East seemed to have been a reaction to the Zionist movement. Armed settlers backed by colonial powers arrive in mass with the mission of creating an ethnostate on the land Palestinians have been living on for hundreds or thousands of years(Many of the of them before the British Occupation were descended from converted Jews). They also literally called themselves colonists, and "a people without a land". I know a lot of Arabs came looking for work, but they seem to have integrated rather than form a seperate national identity. Any country would consider their land grabs an act of war whether they are Islamic or not. Vietcong, South Africans, Native Americans, etc... This would apply whether they were an "official state" or loosely affiliated tribes with a shared national identity. This would be alarming if land acquisitions were "ethical" or not.The post WW1 land purchases seem to have been a disaster by paying Ottomans rather that the people who actually lived there. If a bunch of Christians tried to remake the Byzantine empire and did the same thing in Turkey would that be "decolonization". Or do Jews have exclusive rights to decolonize. What am I missing?
You are missing the bias of certain other people who ignore or downplay the many facts you cited . “ Most of the hostility seemed to have been a reaction to the Zionist movement “ 100% . The large Jewish communities lived well in cities like Bagdad or Damascus or Algiers or … I hear so many Zionists talk about how there are no Jews in Arab countries but they conveniently miss why and when that occurred. You were right about the population proportions as well .. What I saw in the 1890’s census was 85% Muslim , 10% Christian , 5% Jewish . And you were absolutely right the early architects of Zionism described their project as the “ Colonization of Palestine “. There was no hiding what they were intending , as there is now . And the “ purchasing” land story … if there is a just God that argument would not hold up in his court . All in all nice assimilation of facts and context in a short paragraph .👏🏽
1.7% "at one point" in a 600 year reign? What about the other points across that long arc? There've been ebbs and flows and pogroms and expulsions and discriminatory laws that made life very difficult for Jewry under the Ottoman colonisers. What's your point? That the Jews were pushed out of their homeland by oppressive conditions? Well yes, that certainly happened. If you think living under a jizya is a trivial thing, try giving half of your income away every week to your local mosque or imam; you'll soon start to get an idea of how hard it was for Jews to stay on their land, and the Ottomans were by far not the worst or most brutal of conquerors. You're missing a lot of detail, I don't even know where to start. The Jews were betrayed badly by the Brits and the Americans, the latter only lifting arms embargoes and beginning to support them after they unexpectedly won the six-day war and showed themselves a power to be reckoned with (and potentially useful to the US). The Brits banned their migration, turned ships away from Palestine and several times attacked them, gave a huge change of their designated land to Transjordan to appease the Arabs (that didn't work), refused to let Holocaust orphans enter Palestine leading to the unnecessary deaths of thousands of children, armed the Arab League militias before they effed off thanks largely to the Zionists making them unwelcome (decolonising their land, if you will), many of whom the English helped arm were volunteers from other nations, in the Arabs' aim to exterminate every Jew from what they saw as all theirs (this is Qu'ranic law, that once a land falls to the Muslims, it is forever 'theirs'). I'd hardly call all that being "backed by colonial powers". It's not to say the Arabs weren't allowed to have hurt feelings and deep resentment about the process of Jews returning to their land - they're certainly entitled to them. Non-violent people suffered unfairly because of their hostile leadership and countrymen, but they never blame themselves or their own culture when the eternal scapegoat, the Jews who in their holy book are called, along with Christians, "the worst of creatures" are far easier to kick around and rail against. I don't know why you think the "people without a land" statement makes them colonisers -- which nation or metropole are the diaspora supposedly colonising from then? They were refugees, more accurately. Arab assimilation isn't evidence of their indigeneity, but perhaps their homogeneity, and the stranglehold of Islam. Nation states weren't big in that culture; it was all about the tribes (and still is, with key families holding great influence in Gaza) and ensuring the submission of all non-Muslims under Islam. We're never going to understand it all properly if we don't include Arab colonialism and compulsory Islamisation and the pursuit of subjugating all other groups that unites the Arab Muslim world. The making of nations has ALWAYS been a messy business, and I don't know if any haven't involved bloodshed. What IS peculiar is how singularly obsessed the world has twisted themselves to be over this particular one, the ONLY Jewish nation surrounded by 22 Arab nation states. I'm Australian (and part Ashkenazi as luck would have it) and our history here is dark and horrible and involved and actual genocide against the indigenous population who now make up only ~3.5% of us, most with European or other heritage too. We are a colonial outpost, and that cannot be undone and funnily enough, very few people are calling for it, despite our First Nations people having a very good case for reparations and telling the lot of us to p*ss off. Why isn't the world trying to boycott us and send us all 'back to where we came from'? Is it okay after 250 years of government policies discriminating against Aboriginal people (and for a while, non-Anglo/Euro migrants) because enough time has gone by? So many of your questions about what is right are going to create more problems, wars, and suffering than everyone taking stock of where we are and trying in earnest to get along and live side by side and forgive and make up for past wrongs. We can't undo history, but yet so many enlightened and caring people are ready to endorse the wholesale genocide and mass transfer of 9 million Israelis to... .where? on a matter of principle, because their neighbours refuse to accept the past and stop trying to unalive them all? It's ridiculous and counter-productive for a people if they *actually* want an end to the violence. If the Palestinians are so historically good at assimilating, they have many choices of neighbouring countries to negotiate assimilating in to that don't require the genocide of Jews, again.
@@sandy_of_joxyou did more wandering there than there is time to respond to in YT comments . But I will skip to your meaningful addressing of the reality on the ground today - You say people are calling for the 7m Jews in Israel to leave , and what would be better is for the Palestinians to “ assimilate “ ( leave ) into neighboring countries. Despite all the long writing that preceded it , your statements end up right in line with the current government of Israel . How about the Jews stay , the Palestinians stay ( with equal rights which is not the situation now ) , and there is right of return for both Jews and Palestinians who want to immigrate .? That is the solution proposed by most Palestinians I speak with .
@@GardenerGeorge Mate, anyone studying this conflict knows its complexities are very hard to pour into a readable YT comment! So here's another tl;dr for ya to cherry pick from. Palestinians have equal rights in Israel, for a start. Under international law, the West Bank is not under Israeli occupation. The last illegal occupation was Jordan, but after the six-day war, and before Jordan, there was no 'sovereign state' to be occupying in strictly legal terms. If you don't like that, take it up with someone like Natasha Housdorff, who knows what she's talking about far better than this rando student of all things Israel/Palestine. You are saying I said it's better for the Palestinians to leave (back to where they came from in no small proportions we might add), not me. It certainly is IF they can't/won't live in peace, but of course the ones who partake of fighting and Jew hatred are the ones who always refuse to back down, because their objective is ongoing war, not peace. And probably vice versa the other side, and on and on it goes. NEVER have any Arab leadership before, during or after the mandate period made ANY sincere reparations or proposals for peace. Arafat pretended to, talking about peace out one side of his mouth, while speaking in Arabic about the Hudaybiya agreement he just made with Israel, referring to Muhammad famously betraying a peace treaty only to declare war while his 'enemy' were on the back foot (funny thing to do for a so-called nationalist), which Arafat promptly emulated by lighting the fire of the second(?) intifada. The Israeli right-wing only gained power after the horrors of those intifadas, sewer side bombings in malls, discos and school buses etc and multiple regrettable security breaches and built that wall to protect their people as well as Palestinians who were often collateral damage in the attempted murders. And it worked. Up until then and even after, the majority of Israelis persisted in believing they could have peace with the neighbours and very much wanted their government to secure those peace deals. As did many of those in the kibbutzim who were murdered by psychos on 7th October. They unalived people they knew were peace activists, while 'innocent civilians' aided in the kidnappings and looting. Was it Rabin or Peres who got elected on the promise of handing over the West Bank entirely before he got assassinated. Good thing it didn't come about. We can all deduce what would have happened with Islamic Jihad having access to elevated areas with a view of Tel Aviv and other Jewish or mixed cities becoming within convenient firing range of a portable rocket launcher. Just like the land for peace deal in Gaza, where Hamas instantly levelled Gush Katif and built missile launching infrastructure on the ashes of the lucrative greenhouses the Israelis handed them. If you're an Israeli you care about people not coming to unalive your kids while they're riding the bus to school. Do you have no sympathy/understanding of the impossible bind that puts them in? They've seen the failed peace attempts and the hatred from the other side that never ends. We who don't live there have the luxury of taking a side on the basis of 'principles' or the take on history that makes sense to us. If I lived there I daresay I'd be cynical af about 'peace' by now, after witnessing the pointless insanity of Islamists firsthand (and yes most of them are - you won't hear Marxists shouting allahu akhbar as they pull the trigger). Your claim about the Middle Eastern/Muslim pogroms and expulsions of Jews in the 1940s-early 1950s as being a reaction to Zionists moving to Palestine: so they had no sympathy for the millions of Jews who'd been murdered and the survivors who literally had nowhere else to go? Telling. And why would they force out Jewish families in Baghdad and Beirut etc who'd been there for generation after generation, take their money/homes just because some other Jews bought their way to Palestine? Sounds like underlying racism/xenophobia to me and like they were jumping on an opportunity to do what they already wanted to do - if they didn't already see those Iraqi Jews etc as outsiders, there would have been no Farhud in 1941. The message from Arabs to the Jews (or at least the leaderships) in the Middle East, since at least the dawn of Islam has been Jews can stay only if they remain subservient, don't offend any Muslims, and pay the jizya. That's not self-determination, and is no way to live for a persecuted people. Jerusalem was about 80% Jewish in the last half of the 1800s I have read too, btw - there were more or less Jewish/Arab dominated population centres and those considerations were very much factored in when the Zionists were trying to figure out how to get what they wanted without displacing the existing local Arab population - hence the weird distribution of the 1947 partition plan to accommodate which ethnic/religious majority already lived where. They were trying to disturb the least amount of locals while maintaining the capacity of the Jews to have majority areas where they would not be forced back into the old patterns of submission and be free to practice their religion and culture without persecution, or limiting others. I wish people would stop trying to airbrush out Arab Muslim aggression from history. It's been an ongoing theme that's had a huge impact on everyone in the Middle East, and that rejectionism is the reason there are terrorists under the purview of the Muslim Brotherhood in Gaza today, another bloody war, and the peaceful people being trodden over once again. It's important to separate out the common people who generally cop the worst of war as opposed to the elites in both societies too, would you agree? There are parallel stories happening where many things can be true at once, and conflating leaders' bad decisions with the rest of the population, the 'norms' doesn't get us anywhere but confused and completely at odds.
@@sandy_of_joxI left this platform and did not see your response until today . Just as well . * Palestinians have equal rights within Israel ? Cmon . Look up 2018 Nation State Law . Look up some interviews with Palestinians in East Jerusalem or West Bank . Equal is a ludicrous and uninformed assertion . • “ telling “? Whatever . You have no idea who I am and it does not seem like you have a very informed opinion of the range of people who call themselves “ Palestinian “. It suits your narrative of this as an existential religious conflict to justify aggression and violence as the only solutions . I am not going to change your mind in these small screen paragraphs , but try meeting some real Palestinians . Every time I have it seems clear this is about land and justice
It is beyond me how a decent person can accomodate the self evidently nothing but racist classification of people by colour as good and bad in such terms. The racialist concept is Nazi in kind. So I have no time for contemplating to assign "good intentions" for such people. They are evil if accept that, Jews or not Jews. I have a hunch that the hero of this video would have stayed with that crowd if not finding herself on the wrong end of the classification, so my respect for her is limited. Sure it is good that she realised, but this was not it seems or in every sense for the right reasons,
that's intersectionalism as she mentioned, poorly applied and still relying on stereotypes as a cover-all way to understand the world. There seems to be a love for oversimplifying things into good/bad categories among my fellow lefties. Makes complex issues easier to chant about with punchy slogans, and who doesn't love a punch slogan to get the fire in the belly going! :/
@@Borzasnyul it's not nonsense, but it is certainly applied poorly all too often by those who want to hide their own totalitarian ideas behind that of correcting conditions of unfair and unnecessary discrimination. Kimberle Crenshaw used it to describe the very real discrimination against black woman in the US, and women in general, and it's been usefully applied to advocate for recognition of systemic abuses and lack of equality for people with disabilities, migrant workers, elderly etc for the upliftment of people who need and deserve it. There's just always a*holes who go and corrupt and ruin a good thing.
@@sandy_of_jox You do say decent sounding things, but I am very sorry, I reject in full the entire Critical Race Theory, or be it Critical Theory approach including lingo as fundamentally hostile to reality, in essence evil whatever the the verbiaged good intentions. I am an enemy of the entire left whether the National Socialist or the Communist kind, including the - very sorry - to my mind superfluous invention of "intersectionalism". No such exists. It is in the perverted, deluded mind of the neo Marxist CommunNazis only, hell bent to destroy the World. They are anti-life, anti-human power hungry monsters. I reject their striving to destroy the language. Having lived long under Communism of the older variety I learned their techniques too well and it is very clear to me that the artificial lingo they always invent to dominate discourse in an authoritarian fashion (what else, coming from them?) is to be rejected in full. They are my enemy, and if you are leftist so are you to my no little regret as I prefer friendliness, harmony. There can not be common ground on the basis of relying on artificial Marxist in character terms.
Comment about the problem being "ashkenormativity" was very inappropriate. As one of the guests said, these children have no Jewish background and don't connect to Israel's history for that reason. To say it is because they are "ashkenazim" or "white," is really playing the same game that the haters do. And many ashkenazim (like me) are darker skinned than all these women.
Theodor Herzl, the founder of zionism, was neither religiously educated nor a religious jew. He was an atheist and he collaborated with several antisemites when discussing the colonization of Palestine with British ministers without conferring with Palestinians themselves. The entire idea of anti-zionism being antisemitism relies on conflating zionism with judaism which is categorically false given the majority of jews in the USA are actually anti-zionist. To imply that the zionist settlers are indigenous to Palestinian land is absurd. Being indigenous doesn’t mean having ancestry in a region separated by some thousands of years of living in a different region. If that were the case, I could claim to be an indigenous African as humanity hailed from there. But being indigenous is so much more than geography or common ancestry. It’s about one’s relationship with the land, culture, oral and written tradition. Taking someone's farms that had been passed down generations for 100s of years, ripping away their handmade clothes that were rich with knowledge and culture, and killing their children, is not something an indigenous culture would do. That's settler colonialism in its most obvious form and theft of someone else's culture.
Are you so sure that the majority of American Jews overall agree with you, or just the younger generation(s)? Also quoting people from previous conversations is much less meaningful than their actions. Jews came from many places but almost always as refugees, not colonists. There is no question Indigenous Arabs lost their land, not because it was stolen, but because they started a war and lost. Unfortunately, this happened throughout history. But unlike all other refugees who are forced to move onward, the UN community has perpetuated the myth that Palestinians have a right to return. Your outrage is understandable at the mistreatment of these people, but your blame should be against the UN, Iran, and the Palestinian leadership, not Israel.
---------------------------------------- Zionism has been described as a form of settler colonialism in relation to the region of Palestine and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Many of the fathers of Zionism themselves described it as colonialism, such as Vladimir Jabotinsky, who said "Zionism is a colonization adventure." ---------------------------------------- ("Zionism as settler colonialism" Wikipedia)
Which 'many' fathers? The Zionists weren't and still aren't a monolith. Haviv Rettig Gur went into this in a recent podcast, the types of Zionism. Some came from the religious yearning for return more than others who were Marxists or uber-socialists. Not all of them understood their own cultural history, having come from families who had to learn to adapt to European life on the fringes of whatever society they found themselves in. Some came from rejecting religious sentiment altogether, some were more sentimental, others more practical and influenced by the modern idea of nation states, some became quite militant as a response to increasing pogroms against their people. They didn't all think one way. There's a saying about that - ask two Jews a question, get three different answers or something.
@@sandy_of_jox ------------------------------ I will argue that Zionist settlers-indeed, Zionist thought and praxis-were motivated by a national impulse but acted as pure colonialists. Such an argument has not been easily accepted until today in the United States and Israel. The immigration of Jews from (mainly eastern) Europe to the heart of the Arab Middle East is still depicted today in those places as a pure nationalist enterprise, and any attempt to attribute colonialist features to it is rejected out of hand. This is a bewildering phenomenon in the age of professional historiography. Zionism was not, after all, the only case in history in which a colonialist project was pursued in the name of national or otherwise noncolonialist ideals. Zionists relocated to Palestine at the end of a century in which Europeans controlled much of Africa, the Caribbean, and other places in the name of “progress” or idealism not unfamiliar to the Zionist movement. It happened in a century when French settlers colonized Algeria, claiming an atavist and emotional link to the Algerian soil no less profound than the one professed by the early Zionists with regard to Eretz Yisrael. Similarly, the cynical reassurances of the Zionist settlers to the native population were heard before by British settlers in Africa and Asia. Like the Zionists, the colonies built by Europeans in these continents were allegedly for the benefit of the local people. As it turned out, the colonies became imperialist communities serving only the strategic interests of European powers and the settlers themselves. In the period of the white man’s penetration into Africa and Asia, the Jews “returned” to their “homeland.” (Zionism as Colonialism: A Comparative View of Diluted Colonialism in Asia and Africa ~ Ilan Pappe) The Historical Setting of Zionist Colonialism The frenzied ‘Scramble for Africa’ of the 1880s stimulated the beginnings of Zionist colonisation in Palestine. As European fortunehunters, prospective settlers, and empire builders raced for Africa, Zionist settlers and would-be state-builders rushed for Palestine ~ Fayez Sayegh, “Settler colonialism, which is what this is, is by far the worst kind of imperialism, because it gets rid of the native population. Other kinds of imperialism exploit them, but settler colonialism eliminates them, “exterminates” them, to use the words of the Founding Fathers.” ~ Noam Chomsky Though even today colonialism is sometimes used in this older, broader sense, it more often denotes, in the words of Edward Said, “the implanting of settlements on a distant territory”-in short, settler colonialism. Rashid Khalidi is a leading historian of the Middle East. In an interview, he explains how the current war in Palestine is the product of decades of violent settler colonialism designed to drive the Palestinians from their land. Proponents of the paradigm of Zionism as settler colonialism include Edward Said, Rashid Khalidi, Noam Chomsky, Ilan Pappe, Fayez Sayegh, Maxime Rodinson, George Jabbour, Ibrahim Abu-Lughod, Baha Abu-Laban, Jamil Hilal, and Rosemary Sayigh.
@@sandy_of_jox ------------------------------ I will argue that Zionist settlers-indeed, Zionist thought and praxis-were motivated by a national impulse but acted as pure colonialists. Such an argument has not been easily accepted until today in the United States and Israel. The immigration of Jews from (mainly eastern) Europe to the heart of the Arab Middle East is still depicted today in those places as a pure nationalist enterprise, and any attempt to attribute colonialist features to it is rejected out of hand. This is a bewildering phenomenon in the age of professional historiography. Zionism was not, after all, the only case in history in which a colonialist project was pursued in the name of national or otherwise noncolonialist ideals. Zionists relocated to Palestine at the end of a century in which Europeans controlled much of Africa, the Caribbean, and other places in the name of “progress” or idealism not unfamiliar to the Zionist movement. It happened in a century when French settlers colonized Algeria, claiming an atavist and emotional link to the Algerian soil no less profound than the one professed by the early Zionists with regard to Eretz Yisrael. Similarly, the cynical reassurances of the Zionist settlers to the native population were heard before by British settlers in Africa and Asia. Like the Zionists, the colonies built by Europeans in these continents were allegedly for the benefit of the local people. As it turned out, the colonies became imperialist communities serving only the strategic interests of European powers and the settlers themselves. In the period of the white man’s penetration into Africa and Asia, the Jews “returned” to their “homeland.” (Zionism as Colonialism: A Comparative View of Diluted Colonialism in Asia and Africa ~ Ilan Pappe)
@@sandy_of_jox The Historical Setting of Zionist Colonialism The frenzied ‘Scramble for Africa’ of the 1880s stimulated the beginnings of Zionist colonisation in Palestine. As European fortunehunters, prospective settlers, and empire builders raced for Africa, Zionist settlers and would-be state-builders rushed for Palestine ~ Fayez Sayegh, “Settler colonialism, which is what this is, is by far the worst kind of imperialism, because it gets rid of the native population. Other kinds of imperialism exploit them, but settler colonialism eliminates them, “exterminates” them, to use the words of the Founding Fathers.” ~ Noam Chomsky Though even today colonialism is sometimes used in this older, broader sense, it more often denotes, in the words of Edward Said, “the implanting of settlements on a distant territory”-in short, settler colonialism. Rashid Khalidi is a leading historian of the Middle East. In an interview, he explains how the current war in Palestine is the product of decades of violent settler colonialism designed to drive the Palestinians from their land. Proponents of the paradigm of Zionism as settler colonialism include Edward Said, Rashid Khalidi, Noam Chomsky, Ilan Pappe, Fayez Sayegh, Maxime Rodinson, George Jabbour, Ibrahim Abu-Lughod, Baha Abu-Laban, Jamil Hilal, and Rosemary Sayigh.
I had just left another comment where I said it was ridiculous to to suppose that the Palestinians would be the proper targets for revanche in answer to Conquests made by the Greeks and Romans more than two millenniums ago, and that they should simply call a spade a spade, that might makes right, and that they're taking back Israel under the old rules that govern Medieval Hero Barbarism. After submitting that comment, well, then I thought about the House of Saud in Saudi Arabia, considering that Arabia was only a fractured version of itself after the First World War, split up between a host of tribes, and would have been easy enough for any Western Power to have swooped in and conquered, but before Oil was discovered there, it wouldn't have been worth the bullets. BUT Ibn Saud, the Founder of the new Dynasty had used force of arms to effectively consolidate Saudi Arabia. THEREFORE it can be said that Israel has as much right to rule by force of arms as Saudi Arabia, or as much rights to any of the lands of the former Ottoman Empire as the Allies had, simply because they took it in a War. Yes, we need to understand that while nowadays we have War Crimes, well, it is therefore implicit that Wars are in fact LEGAL as long as one follows the Rules, and the PRECEDENTS, and the precedential history so far behind the New Innovation of there being such a thing as War Crimes (previously it was understood that War was tantamount to the suspension of all Law, everything being fair in Love and War, but in practice only those who LOSE Wars have been put forward for any crimes. Really, Harry Truman Atom Bombed Civilian Populations in Japan but his firebombing of Tokyo and Dresden actually killed more people... civilian targets, but nobody even thought of indicting him, while they went after Germans and Japanese who had only been enlisted men, killing at only the Retail level. So, don't blow smoke with wild stories of making up for Ancient Greek and Roman Conquests by carpet bombing the Palestinians, just man up to good old fashioned Feudal Medieval Might Makes Right, and stand strong next to the bloody handed King of Saudi Arabia (well his Grandson, but if you compare photos of the great Ibn Saud and the present crowned Prince, his Grandson, Mohammed Bin Saud, well, the family resemblance is uncanny. . .
I experienced the leftist anti-semitic in discussions with my friends in the 1980s, who were shouting me down because I defended Israel. They didn't want to listen to any of my arguments and they told me years later that they thought I was a Nazi. Leftist havn't changed in the last 50 years in their anti-semitism, and you still can't argue with them, because they 'know' they are right. I am glad a few leftist are comming around. Best wishes from Germany. I stand with Israel. Schalom
I experienced the same thing in the early 1990s. This is certainly not new. It has only gained momentum.
Das Gleiche bei mir, shalom aus Berlin
I experienced similar, but I always win the debate. My grandfather fought in WW2, and he saw the unthinkable with the holocaust. I am a member of a growing movement against antisemitism, and I stand my ground.
It blows their minds when you inform them that Israel has socialized medicine and higher education for all of its citizens of all faiths and that no other country in the Middle East does.
Back in the early 1980s when I first started college I could tell which of my professors were communists and could never survive in any professional environment outside of academia. They simply didn’t have the social skills to compromise or keep their mouths shut in a professional environment.
I'm left wing and I support Israel. I never used to; I used to follow the same narrative as the above - although I'm not Jewish.
Then one day I ended up on a date with someone who had studied the conflict - and she started to correct me on issues I had absolutely no idea about. That led me down my own rabbit hole, it became a special interest and now I support Israel fully and can even pick up on many points of history that people are often wrong about.
There's a real lack of education about this issue, and one of the biggest problems is that the left wingers often feel like they're above reproach, moral, integrous and 'right' - and yet they don't know the truth and often don't want to hear it.
Similar experience but I was on the correcting side. Sadly the woman I was on a date with was less open minded and said afterwards that the difference in politics was a deal breaker. Hopefully she will at some point wake up and realize how poisonous the kool aid she was drinking is. Respect on your journey :)
I am center left. I thought it was a two sides issue. I have now come to my senses.
If one would like to delve into the subject more in-depth, do you have any recommendations for books or websites with trustworthy and unbiased information?
@@LGBarealltheletters I would say that you need to research a lot of sources.
You'll find that most of the pro-Palestine books either start at 1948 or completely miss out huge chunks of other history - for example, they often miss out the fact that there was never a Palestinian state, and that the region was made up of both Israel and what we now call Jordan.
Pro-Palestine narrators can also speak about the Jews as if they were European colonialists who just swanned in on a whim - forgetting that Arabs are from the Arabian Peninsula, and they were the true colonialists.
They'll also promote an idea that Jews and Arabs got along like best friends, ignoring the Jewish status as 'dhimmi' under Islamic rule and how they were forced to pay extra taxes and subject to other restrictions.
There's a book 'The Case for Israel' that's very good, but even that is flawed.
amzn.to/4ccvBaR
Norman Finkelstein accuses the author of plagiarism - but Finkelstein nitpicks over minor details quite a lot. Regardless of the source, the information is generally correct.
I'd say the history of Zionism as a refugee movement from the pogroms in Eastern Europe is also a good starting point.
But also, the treatment of Jews under the various Caliphates, including the Ottoman Empire.
The Balfour Declaration was probably the event that incited Arabs to start attacking Jews in 1920 - but all that was really doing was legitimising a movement that was already underway.
The riots in the 1920s led to Churchill's White Paper that clarified the Balfour Declaration and prompted the division of Palestine into Jewish Palestine and Arab Palestine - also known as Transjordan.
Not many people realise that this was the original two-state solution and demonstrates that handing over 70% of the land to Arabs was still not enough.
Also, very few people realise that it was always Arabs who attacked first.
God bless you
She is proof that correct information and finding out the facts can change the world!! 🙏🏾♥️🇮🇱
No, she is a proof that the correct upbringing means everything. She and other bozos should know history and be raised with the firm authentic identity. She had nothing. This hugging babbling is neither upbringing nor education.
I'm just like this woman. I fell for the false narrative from the pro-palestinian side and it started in my world history class. I was always for a Jewish state but I fell for the lies of colonism, etc. Now I know the truth through research and learning that Jews always lived there. I hate that I was misinformed. The moment I left the anti-Israel side was the encampments and the Jew hate in said encampments. I thought choosing Jewish Voice for Peace help me avoid any Jew hate, but I was wrong, dead wrong. I care about human rights so I hate that I fell for a false narrative. The right thing for me to do is stand up for the Jewish people and fight back against propaganda and misinformation.
Thank you so much
@alysiaduemler2221 You are very welcome! I'm still learning and educating myself so I never again fall for misinformation like this.
Students are not little kids. They should take personal responsibility to learn their people’s history!
I too fee pain and anger, but in the end we have to reflect our own role in this balagan - and accept that we have to approach it with love in order to heal and grow even stronger. Shalom
*the original jewish people were dark brown people, with long nose, and straight hair, but most of the true jewish people were converted to muslims, and CHRISTIANS, BECAUSE THE PERSECUTIONS OF BOTH NONE JEWS AND FAKE JEW WHITE SKIN PALE SUPRE.MAC.ISTS. FACT.*
They have learned their dark history. That's why they're protesting
students ARE little kids.
I am 40 (not even that old) and I remember what kind of an idiot I was when I was 20 :)
That's why Qatari subversion works so well on them.
Says a little kid who doesn't take responsibility to learn real history, but instead replaced it with ideology.
I’ve always been pro Israel because I was concerned with Jews and a lot of Jews live there, but somewhat vaguely so. I started in recent years to look closer, expecting that what I learned would increase my sympathy with the Palestinian position. The exact opposite happened. The closer I looked, the more moral Israel got, and the less moral the Palestinian cause got in a whole lot of respects, one of the chief ones being that the pro-Palestinian movement has never been about Palestinians at all but about Jews. The pro Palestinian movement does not actually value Palestinian people.
There’s so much I didn’t know, like the day I decided to look up where the Jewish Quarter in Jerusalem was and found that it was in East Jerusalem. It’s unbelievable that no one bothers to say this. I didn’t know that the only way Jews got land in Palestine for nearly seventy years was to purchase it, the most ethical founding of a nation in world history. I didn’t know that Transjordan did not include the West Bank or East Jerusalem but that Jordan conquered both, East Jerusalem with British help. I didn’t know that when Transjordan was established in the early 1920’s that one of the first things they did was prohibit Jews. I didn’t know that the Jewish refugee population in the Arab world was greater than the Arab refugee population coming from Israel, and the stark differences in how both populations were treated by their people. I had no knowledge of the 1964 pan-Arab conference in Cairo where the KGB advised founding the PLO, essentially turning a population that mostly viewed itself as Syrian Arabs into a population that would, as of 1967, start calling themselves Palestinians, or that no Arabs called themselves Palestinians until Jews started to return. I at least knew that the Khazar theory had been debunked and that Ashkenazim have been genetically proven to have mostly Levantine ancestry (which I’d figured out because otherwise there would be no Ashkenaz Cohenim.) I didn’t know that the Arab population of Israel had more rights, freedoms, and prosperity than any other Arab population in the Middle East, that they comprised more than 20% of Israel’s citizens, and that neither the PA nor Hamas accepted Jews at all as a matter of policy, even if those Jews had continuous ancestry in Palestine from modern times. I didn’t know about Israel being the only UN member with enough seniority to serve on the rotating seat in the Security Council that hadn’t been permitted to, or that the number of UN resolutions critical of Israel outnumbered resolutions critical of the rest of the UN membership combined. I didn’t know that the Arab world had fewer than four thousand Jews left while Israel has two million Arab citizens. I didn’t know that a lot of the embassies in Cairo used to be Jewish homes. I didn’t know that until October 7 that Syria was killing more Palestinians than Israel was every year but no one said a word about those Palestinians because the only value of Palestinians to the rest of the world is as a weapon to delegitimize Israel, and in fact that’s why the Palestinians were created as a people in the first place. I didn’t know how great the failure of Arab countries has been when it comes to integrating Palestinian refugees - in Lebanon, they’re still in refugee camps when most of the actual refugees died of old age and we’re looking at multiple generations of their descendants born in Lebanon but treated as foreign.
This comment alone would shock the crap out of most of the anti-Zionist students, particularly the Jewish ones.j
Really well said. I’m screenshotting this.
@@littlecatfeet9064 So agree; a bit long for today's readers. And needs paragraphs! But excellent.
@@littlecatfeet9064 Thank you and glad to be of service
@@willdon.1279 Thank you and I couldn’t figure out where to divide it. Before editing, the whole thing was one paragraph.
@@koshersalaami divide by the theme of each paragraph, or you could just copy paste from Israeli propaganda
she is so good at explaining this in a relevant way for progressive college students. I hope she gets much more exposure. thank you Ateret!
I really love her explanation of Jewish people being an indigenous people. Yes! This talk gave me more ideas and more confidence frankly to hold my ground when confronted with obvious or subtle forms of antisemitism. I am a middle aged Christian women, and i will not back down in my belief that the Jewish people, your religion and culture and history should be respected and protected.
So the Jews were never indigenous to Europe?
We are SO indigenous, our land is so special, when we exist in our land it flourishes, when we don’t it just doesn’t react well, literally on the agricultural level and it has been seen through history. I always love to say that it’s not only that we are indigenous to the land, the land is also indigenous to us! Because it reacts to us, like it doesn’t react to no other nation. So I think we are the core definition of being indigenous and we are indigenous not only by physical power but by cosmic spiritual levels.
@@Yamsandjams-w4t I think that's great but Israel doesn't need billions of dollars of economic and military aid from the USA to thrive.
@@Yamsandjams-w4t Israel doesn't need other people's money to flourish. They can flourish without our $300 billion from US tax-payers.
@@Yamsandjams-w4thmmm .
I am glad you feel such a connection to “ your “ land .
Have you ever read Shlomo Sand ?
Zionism is not fascism but Hamas most certainly is fascist. You won't get anywhere by pointing that out to a Hamas supporter. True nonetheless.
Yup. People forget that Israel is actually openly friendly to Arabs and peaceful Arab Muslims (some of which are allowed to live and work in Israel). However, would Hamas allowed religious Jews to live peacefully in Gaza? Nope. They also forget about how one of the Islamic grand Mufti's of Jerusalem deliberately met with Hitler in hopes for help in removing the Jewish people. Even some Muslims now look with favor on Hitler because the shared hatred or dislike of Jews.
*the original jewish people were dark brown people, with long nose, and straight hair, but most of the true jewish people were converted to muslims, and CHRISTIANS, BECAUSE THE PERSECUTIONS OF BOTH NONE JEWS AND FAKE JEW WHITE SKIN PALE SUPRE.MAC.ISTS. FACT.*
Zionism bears all the hallmarks of fascism.
1) The desire to return to a mythical, glorious past ie. Ancient Israel
2) Populist right wing authoritarianism
3) Master race/Chosen people delusions
4) A desire to wipe out a race deemed inferior
5) A charismatic strongman leader
your species was born to lie, wasn't it, you cursed whatever you are,
Hamas is apparently Nazi - fascism was a somewhat another cup of tea. One may be a fascist and not a Nazi. Hamas has learned on Hitler's Mein Kampf.
As a sepharade Jew I cannot understand how an ashkénaze Jew could be anti Israël, that's where my ancestors are from, my family was expelled from Israël and différents Arab countries along history
Ashkenazi Jews that are anti Israel are mostly ones living in US. Most of Ashkenazi who live in Eastern Europe understand what's going on.
they are brain washed.
did you ever read Israeli news from the "הארץ" "שיחה מקומית" Chanel 12 and so on, they tell a lot of misinformation, half-lies and sometimes even fabricate history to spread hate and guilt.
they are founded by organizations that get money from foreign sources.
once the government tried to pass a law that requires ganizations to report to the government and show the public where they get the money than they screamed that it's death to democracy and the politicians gave up.
and they are backed up by the people of the system that believe that if Israel is not communist country than it has no right to exist.
Historically most Jews have always tried to do their best to fit in wherever they found themselves. Partly it’s good manners. Partly it’s because throughout history Jews who rose their heads up tended to lose them. I’m Ashkenazi on my Dad’s side. His people came from Eastern Europe sometime in the latter portion of the 19th century, I believe. The American Strouse’s were pretty wealthy at one point but like a lot of other folks we lost most of what we had after the 1929 Stock Market Crash.
The family as a whole had never been all that religious & my dad’s a pretty staunch atheist. I didn’t receive any instruction.
I know a pretty fair bit about my mom’s fam but not my dad’s. My mom’s family’s mixed English & Scottish with bunch of other Continental stuff thrown in. Dad’s people were all Eastern European Ashkenazi. The ones who weren’t stateside when the Nazis and Russkies got their act going didn’t make it out.
Like I said I’m not religious but I’ve never been able to fathom how any halfway educated Jewish-American could turn against history. I was raised to care about justice & doing the right thing & that a lot of other people have had it bad throughout history. I’ve also studied a lot of history, though, and even though I’m Jewish on the wrong side of the family for religious purposes and I can pass for generic whitebread America I also know damn well that when things aren’t going so well in the world & the mob starts looking for scapegoats they always start looking for Jews.
Historically most Jews have always tried to do their best to fit in wherever they found themselves. Partly it’s good manners. Partly it’s because throughout history Jews who rose their heads up tended to lose them. I’m Ashkenazi on my Dad’s side. His people came from Eastern Europe sometime in the latter portion of the 19th century, I believe. The American Strouse’s were pretty wealthy at one point but like a lot of other folks we lost most of what we had after the 1929 Stock Market Crash.
The family as a whole had never been all that religious & my dad’s a pretty staunch atheist. I didn’t receive any instruction.
I know a pretty fair bit about my mom’s fam but not my dad’s. My mom’s family’s mixed English & Scottish with bunch of other Continental stuff thrown in. Dad’s people were all Eastern European Ashkenazi. The ones who weren’t stateside when the Nazis and Russkies got their act going didn’t make it out.
Like I said I’m not religious but I’ve never been able to fathom how any halfway educated Jewish-American could turn against history. I was raised to care about justice & doing the right thing & that a lot of other people have had it bad throughout history. I’ve also studied a lot of history, though, and even though I’m Jewish on the wrong side of the family for religious purposes and I can pass for generic whitebread America I also know damn well that when things aren’t going so well in the world & the mob starts looking for scapegoats they always start looking for Jews.
Those countries are onkly 'Arab', because the Arabs invaded and colonized them. That story needs to be told as well.
It all comes to lack of basic education.
*the original jewish people were dark brown people, with long nose, and straight hair, but most of the true jewish people were converted to muslims, and CHRISTIANS, BECAUSE THE PERSECUTIONS OF BOTH NONE JEWS AND FAKE JEW WHITE SKIN PALE SUPRE.MAC.ISTS. FACT.*
No, it comes from indoctrination. The Left see Jews as the International Brigade, they cannot influence something that is not wholly integrated so they find ways to alienate and isolate it. The Left refuses to see Israelis as anything other than White European Colonialists. They won't hear about the Oriental Jews, Spanish Jews, Mizrahi Jews, Ethiopian Jews, ONLY Ashkenazi Jews. The Left are essentially National Socialists. People like Chomsky or Said are at the vanguard of this Hatred.
Oh please
It's a successful campaign of Hamas brainwashing across all media mixed with antisemitism from left and right. Hamas would rather see its whole population die than see this narrative end.
The idea that Jews are Europeans and "white" and Arabs are "brown" is so ridiculous. My wife is half-morrocan, all her morrocan family has skin as pale as me, European. Arabic and Hebrew languages are so close, their cultures are so close, their appearance is so close - how can you possibly count one semitic ethnicity as "middle eastern", and another semitic ethnicity as "european"?
Most Jews do tan pretty well. 😉
Seriously, though, there ARE a LOT of black & brown Jewish lineages. The diaspora began around the Med & stretched out through Europe, North Africa & beyond. There may not be a lot of us but the diaspora began a long, long time ago. Our ancestors clustered mostly around the Mediterranean basin but the Med was pretty damn multi-ethnic back in the day. Right wing Jew-haters don’t think we’re just not white enough while lefty antisemites have convinced themselves that Israel is filled with shifty Europeans who invented Auschwitz just so they could run back to the Holy Land, displace honest Arabs and take their jerbs!
The paranoiacs see Jews everywhere. We kinda were, but in small numbers. There wasn’t anything sinister about it though. Historically Jews have mostly kept their heads down & tried to fit in wherever they ended up. This was largely a matter of good sense, necessity & neighborlinesss. When shit started to get really real during the European pograms of the mid/late 19th century a lot of Jews fled to America. In the years prior to and after WWII it was something of a split. Today roughly 85% of the world’s Jews live in either the US or Israel.
American Jews are predominantly Ashkenazi European. Israel is more multi-ethnic. After 1948 the Arab & North Africans states were sore as hell about getting their assess whooped and made life even more difficult for their Jews than they already were. But now that there was a place for them to go they went there. They went to Israel.
There are fewer than 10k Jews left in the Arab world and North Africa outside of Israel. Inside Israel you can get a little glimpse of what the world looked like when civilization looked like (ethnically speaking) when the Greeks & Romans were writing most of the histories, just a lot more concentrated.
I have an old friend who worked in Israeli intelligence. Second generation. She didn’t talk a lot about most of her work obviously but one thing that became very clear to me as our relationship developed was that one of the reasons why Israeli intelligence historically been so effective and so dangerous is because compared to its enemies it’s so much more diverse. Not DEI-style diverse or early ‘90s Benetton ad diverse. This was the real deal. They could send people who could fit them in comfortably because they were so diverse, so cosmopolitan. America is kinda shit at HUMINT cause we’re such yokels.
@@GrahamCStrouse I guess Woody Allen isn't really Jewish after all?
You can’t, but that’s the thing-antisemitism was never logical and never really made sense, it was and still is a result of pure hate and maybe on the good case-very bad education that still stems from our hate.
Her observations are astute. She accurately describe the narratives that the well-intentioned students are told, and it does feed anti-Semitism. This is not to say that Israel is without problems or a complicated hosted. But the situation is getting spun into simplistic, maximalists views. Thank you.
They're not that well intentioned
A courageous as well as an amazing individual. Her wisdom and words are incredibly valuable. ❤
Their hearts may be in the right place, but relying on emotional responses just makes you easy to manipulate.
Sad fact: there are loads of people who will use anything, including both your good and bad motivations, against your best interests.
Their hearts being in the "right place" is such a cop out.
" I was told..." and before engaging rational , critical thought , she just accepted it . Tells you all you need to know .
Israel needs to reach out to us; the Jews disconnected from our history, language, and culture. We don't speak Hebrew or Yiddish anymore. Our grandparents did, but we were raised as Westerners. Teach us Hebrew, bring us home.
nobody can pour Hebrew into your head. If you want to learn, you can easily learn. Don't expect your own country to be served to you on a platter. Go and help to build it :)
@@todorkolev7565 What do you mean, "You're own country"? The point is, we're NOT Israeli. And of course, Hebrew lessons are online for megabucks plus per/wk. But, who the hell can afford that?
Isn’t that your parents’ fault?
My dad is from Mexico and although I don’t know as much Spanish as I should, we would go to Mexico every year and I knew that culture while still appreciating American and western values and culture.
@@silentvoice4970where are your parents and grandparents? Learn it for free from them
@silentvoice4970 you don't need money to study Hebrew, and to jet a J1 visa to make aliyah, is free as well. Or just go down to your local Israeli embassy, apply for your Right of Return or refugee status.
ArtScroll is a great resource.
So glad to hear you call out people who use the word "Zionist". People who use the Z-word when they talk about Jews are doing the same thing as people who use the N-word when they talk about Black people. It's reprehensible and people using those words should be called out as haters for doing that.
you got it all upside down. N-word is derogatory. Zionist is a positive word. Zionism is Israeli patriotism.
The wonderful people who built Israel were from the Zionistic movement.
Zion is another name for Jerusalem.
Unlike N-word, if someone calls me a Zionist, it's correct (and somewhat flattering).
Get it our of your head that Zionism is a bad word - it never was.
@@todorkolev7565I agree that it is a positive thing but it has been hijacked and turned into something to weaponize against Jews. Also, the variations people use, like “zionazi” makes me so angry.
????? Zionist are Israel patriots. They love their country. It's like American love America.
@@todorkolev7565 I am sorry I wasn't clear. When Black people use the N-word, like ion their rap songs, it is not derogatory or reprehensible. When the anti-semite and pro-palestinian, pro-arab, pro rape an behead people use it it's the N-word. I assure you that they are using it as a reprehensible curse word. Get it now? Just look at the posts and see if you can't differentiate when the Z-word IS the N-word.
@@ms-zi4wcno I don’t get it .
I love my Jewish friends , family , and neighbors .
I am disgusted by the actions of the state of Israel .
I use the word Zionist to describe the people condoning and endorsing those actions .
I am happy to use different word choices if the society agrees on more accurate terms , but for me this distinction is very clear .
That was a truly amazing interview ! THX for sharing your experience in a very positive, peaceful way.
I am not Jewish.
I have had no Jewish education.
BUT,
I know the difference between right and wrong.
Am Yisrael Chai.
Exactly. I really don't understand how this one ended up as anti-Zionist in the country with unlimited access to information.
Amazing how one can rewrite history and ignore countless historians, international lawyers, etc... to fit an ideology.
What's the problem with Birthright? My daughter, who had already been to Israel as a young teen, went recently and it was life changing for her.
Let's task these students with finding a solution for peace. You can only stay in your tents if you come up with ten good ideas a day to solve the problem, without violence. These are the great minds of tomorrow, use your brain power and creativity and come up with solutions.
Excellent point!
One of my parents was a Holocaust survivor and in no way did I have her experience, or her “narrative”.
And what can she do to undo the damage she caused, and probably resulted in the murder of Jews.
@NorseMythology-pv1eg No, that wouldn't. Every such activist backs terrorists up and emboldens them, they feel like they're protected and can get away with anything they do. What do they do? They kill Jews for their cause. And leftists defend those people hysterically and passionately.
*THE ORIGUNAL JEWISH PEOPLE COMSE NOT FROM MIDDLE 20 CENTURY GERMANY BUT 2K HEARS AGO, STARRTING THE EARLY MIDDLE AGES THE WHITE EUROPEAN WERE MAKING THEIR OWN SELF CONEVRSION..*
@NorseMythology-pv1eg Yes, I didn’t understand that at all. What on earth had her mother done to harm anyone?
@@moonshinesa8234 What the OP meant is that the actions that the person being inteviewed had taken probably resulted in the deaths of Jewish people which is very likely.
Many of these liberal swine have been instrumental in the deaths of Jewish people through their covert activities, and today I'm supposed to feel comfort in the fact that they have managed to 'shed their anti-semitism'.
I dont buy in to this at all and its not my job to 'forgive' an anti-semite even if they are one of our own.
Let G-d deal with her.
@@moonshinesa8234 you can't understand peace, your species in incapable.
The anti colonialism social justice paradigm also wishes to see all western civilization fall.
What is amusing about the anti-colonialism movement (if we can call it that) is everyone that is anti-colonialism lives on colonized land. If they rent they are contributing to the profiteering of colonialism, if they own land then they themselves are colonists and I don’t see anyone giving their land back.
To narrow their paradigm down to one simple thought, "If you are WHITE you are the oppressor. If you are Black, arab or Indian you are "the oppressed". Being "oppressed, these people feel entitled to take what you (WHITE people) have since they don't want to work for it and build anything and you only have it because you oppressed them. Obama threw that thought into a speech he made and i was appalled. This is not the paradigm for people of all races and ethnic groups. Many of them are just people like you and me who work hard and earn the things they have. It's the paradigm for people who don't work, have few skills and simply feel entitled to take what YOU have worked for, using the "oppressed" reasoning inherent in the "anti-colonialist" paradigm.
Excellent interview. Very important to hear this woman’s voice I will share!
i remember in high school in 1988/89 a lot of my fellow students were obsessed with the anti-Israel narrative. When the teacher introduced the Holocaust in class, one student piped up ""What about the Israelis? killing those poor Palestinians'
Ughhh sorry about that. Can I ask what state you went to school in (if US)?
Thank you for this. I also deprogrammed myself in this same manner through college and I’m grateful to have come out the other side.
Lovely interviewee, thank you for sharing your story!
A very strong, articulate and convincing advocate for us. Her story should be widely told. What we have to contend with, at this moment, however is how within Israel there is a movement, a faction, a sector that is playing out the horrible stereotypes. Some call it the Settler movement, but it is so much more than that. It's a cohort with a completely different vision of what Israel should be. The Kahanist movement exemplifies it, and to a great extent it was ignored, or denied, or just not attended to by the part of Israel that they are not. Consequently they have achieved a renegade or rogue power, allowing Israel's enemies on the left to define them as Israel. Indeed they have confiscated Palestinian land on the West Bank, by force. They have killed many Palestinians (and please don't say their victims were terrorists; they were not). Some of the IDF "protecting" the settlements are of their group. This is more of an existential threat to the State of Israel than all of its outside enemies.
She really didn't say much other than finding herself on the outside of her identitarian political tribe. She still believes all the other rubbish
I don’t agree with your reaction to what we are commenting beneath , but I do appreciate your recognizing the threat to Israel from within that comes from extremists .
If there is any hope for reconciliation - justice - peace
In the future , it will be because a silent majority on both sides assert themselves and silence their violent extremist minorities .
So far … not happening .
Thx for the wonderful show. I just want to make sure that Germany gave Israel in the ESC 8 points from the Jury and 12 points from the televote. since you stated that germany gave no points to israel.- best from hamburg
What confuses me is she says that she was awoken into how much of this fascet of her life was falsified, but doesn’t question up any of her other opinions
A very interesting discussion. Thanks
Very simple.
Patriotism = love for your country / Nation ( USA, England, Austrlia and others western countries )
Zionism = love for your country ( Israel )
Does the love include allowing people forcefully expelled from said country to return or does that count as hate?
What I'd like to understand is why she took so long and what led her to such a nonsense and hateful worldview to start with, all while thinking she had positive morals.
The flotilla wasnt long ago.
Sadly the concept of Tikkun Olam that the jews are so drawn to often leads to more harm than good
Only when it is divorced from a proper Jewish education. When all that’s left is a venue concept of tikun olam with no proper framework for what that means, and how to accomplish it, then yes, it can be very damaging.
she should be denied entry into Israel, nothing fundamentally changed in her head. still the same Marxist poisoned rhetoric.
Indeed.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
But also this 'tikum olam' has been corrupted and mischaracterized.
The proper way to interpret it would be to lead by example, but the way the liberal brain dead morons would have us all meddling in the affairs of otheres business before we clean up our own backyard.
"Goodness" from humanism has a long history of being corrupted, because people's hearts and minds will blindly cling to things.... *Discernment and reflection are critical skills*
על איזה שטויות אתה מדבר, תיקון עולם זה קונספט הלכתי שכמעט כל היהודים לא(!) מאמינים בו.
פשוט גיבוב שטויות אנטישמי, ניסיון צר לקטלג את כל היהודים תחת מטריה אחת, ניסיון מנוכר, שמקורו בבורות, ואין בו כל בסיס.
רוב היהודים לא מאמינים בקונספט ה-'גאולה', אבל אתה מפיץ שטויות כאילו אתה יודע במה מדובר, מי אנחנו, ובמה אנחנו מאמינים.
Damn. She really went backwards
A radical mugged by reality. At least she's no longer casing damage. How much harm has been wrought by "good intentions" and a desire to improve the world? Selfishness causes so much less disruption.
it is selfishness allot of this social justice bollock is just narscissisim nothing selfless about it
she should be denied entry into Israel, nothing fundamentally changed in her head. still the same Marxist poisoned rhetoric.
Israel is the most selfish country in the world.
Her family is Iraqi. My family is from French Algiers and Morocco. They were forced out because they were Jews, before Israel came home. People need to always question what they are told and verify what they are told are as facts. Good way to perpetuate lies.
For those who want to learn more, her name is Ateret Violet Shmuel
she should be denied entry into Israel, nothing fundamentally changed in her head. still the same Marxist poisoned rhetoric.
While I appreciate her overall shift, there's still some troublesome language going on: 12:27 - "new programming"? What she should be saying is we have to teach factual history, NOT programming. That's precisely what got us in to this mess.
She goes on to say at 12:42 "... no we're not the bad guys... we're not these white European colonists...", which is problematic on so many levels.
Are those the same "bad guys" that built the western system of democracy and freedom Israel owes its current existence and values to that people like her love espousing, by chance?
I could go on.
You are so right. It’s almost hilarious to her her try to find counter arguments of why “these kids” (condescending) see Zionists as colonisers / oppressors. She really HAS not arguments at all.
A part from some lies here and there - for instance that the IDF is “the most moral army”
I don't think she has learned all that much. She simply became aware that she herself is a target of people like her. If not for that she wouldn't have changed at all.
Exactly, like she said herself, her values haven't changed. Her whole identity is being a leftwing radical. She even acknowledges the anti white racism in the extreme lefts world view, but only managed to move within the paradigm to try decouple Jewishness and Zionism from the evil "white colonialists", rather than break free of it.
It only became a problem for her because she didn't expect to find herself inside her secular tribes outgroup.
For me these protests at the collages and the massive rise of anti-semitizem is nothing short of shocking.
This type of back-and-forth talking generalities about these people, those people is never-ending.
Talk instead about specific actions, no matter who is behind them. Then you may actually be able to change the world for the better!
If not, we'll just be arguing until the cows come home about whose fault it was. "All the Lefties/Rightwingers/Fascists/Jews/Arabs/MAGAs/... they are all like that!!!!"
Free Palestine 🇵🇸
From the KGB Muslims.
Never let a group influence you to loose your own individuality. Everyone needs to watch the wave (1981) as immediate homework and maybe we can get out of this evil woke world.
There are Sephardic, Mirazhi, Ethiopian Jews... A lot of Jews in Israel are still middle eastern
*the original jewish people were dark brown people, with long nose, and straight hair, but most of the true jewish people were converted to muslims, and CHRISTIANS, BECAUSE THE PERSECUTIONS OF BOTH NONE JEWS AND FAKE JEW WHITE SKIN PALE SUPRE.MAC.ISTS. FACT.*
Yeah, but the Ashkenazi invented Zionism. And they hold most of the positions of power in Israel.
@@goldencalf5144so what?
BTW, the Bible "invented" Zionism.
@@goldencalf5144"Zionizm" as an organized movement, sure, but over history there were countless waves of migrations back to Israel by countless J--ish communities, many of whom from the middle east (most noteably Egypt and Yemen) - that's how important J--wish scholars like Mimonidas and Issac Luria ended up buried in places like Tiberias and Safed.
@@eidorm.7953 Yeah, there wasn't a problem with those previous migrations because they weren't seeking to colonise the land and displace the indigenous people. Indeed, these earlier migrants were mostly welcome by the Arabs and they lived in peace until the arrival of the Zionists. Zionism on the other hand, was always a settler colonial project. Herzl and Jabotinsky said as much.
Im not from a jewish background. I studied jewish history because i wanted to understand why this people have been so villified. I can come to only one conclusion...jealousy. jealosy of their resilience ingenuity and their ability to question everything from every angle including their own God but especially their personal need to leave the world better than what they found it. I stand with Israel. Israel is the homeland.
"By the rivers of babylon where welay down yea we wept when we remember Zion"
I get a feeling that's a significant part of it too. Trudy Gold, historian with a specialty in understanding the factors leading up to the Holocaust and the birth of Israel talks about that, as well as the familiar concept of the scapegoat as being a key driver in the pogroms. Because the exiled Jews at least belonged to nowhere and everywhere, always on the edges of the society they lived in (the Ashkenazim at least), they were an easy group to target and 'other'. Country's in financial turmoil? Blame the Jews. Sick of all those funny lookin', funny speakin' immigrants flooding your country taking your jobs and running the shops and doing better than your family? Blame the Jews. Your own culture is lost after years of wars, corrupt leadership and territory disputes and it's hard to feel proud of who you are? Blame the Jews.
interesting interview. But what "flottila"? Need to give context.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_flotilla_raid
Happened in 2010. So called humanitarian mission masking terror intent
❤️
Why should anyone put a state or territory above the lives of innocent people? Genuine question if we want to have a genuine convo
No one wants to see anyone dying. How can we make that happen? Answer that and we can find common ground. It’s finding the love and caring about people (all people) speak to that, not the picking sides for sides sake. An Eye for an eye leaves us all blind.
🇮🇱👑
Most certainly is their fault . They made a choice .
From what source would Ateret have come up with her opinion about Israel?
possibly from studying intellectuals like Edward Said and Rashid Khalidi (he's been muddying the waters with his PLO- flavoured sentiments for a long time). I think probaby Ilan Pappe and Norman Finkelstein get a hearing precisely because they are Jews with negative views on Israel, so the unis can hide behind their Jewishness and say 'see! we're both-sidesing!' or something.
one ODD irrational concept --> IF Colonialism is an act against Indigenous (those with birthright).... and protecting birthright of Indigenous is "good".... then WHY is the **term birthright** "bad"?? super confusing how such dissonance at one word happens... while they are supposedly protecting the concept, but fighting the word?
Still no self responsibility for bad choices. Blames others for poor education.
The notion of Jews being "colonialists" is farcical even on purely technical grounds. True colonialists always come from a so-called "metropole" - a sovereign state or entity which exports part of its titular population into a newly acquired or conquered territory. This was the case with Greek colonists of Magna Graecia in Italy and North Africa, who came from various independent Greek city-states (and oftentimes enslaved or expelled the native tribes away from their colony sites, like in Sicily), this was doubly true with Roman colonists all over the Roman republic and empire, this was true for Phoenician colonists of Carthage who came from their metropole of Tyre in Lebanon, and then for Punic colonists in Spain, Sicily and Sardinia who came from Carthage itself. Same thing with Arab-Islamic colonialism that turned Assyrians, Aramaeans, Copts and Berbers into minorities in their own countries - the Arabs came from the newly unified Arabian caliphate, their metropole. Same with the European colonialism - British colonialists came from the metropole of Britain, French ones from France etc. A metropole is the one thing that the diaspora Jews who emigrated to the Land of Israel NEVER HAD! They cannot be called colonialists BY DEFINITION - because they didn't come from any sovereign entity of their own.
Sorry that was a long paragraph you wrote just to be wrong .
Look it up .
There are newspaper clippings from the 1890’s announcing meetings of the Zionist Congress to discuss the
“ Colonization of Palestine “.
Their word choices ; 130 years ago , not mine .
*DEFUND ACADEMIA*
This is the dumbest comment I have ever read. Please give me more.
She is proof that correct information and finding out the facts can change the world!!
Sepharadic joke used to say ashkénazes are the Jews best friends
Pariah State.
What about parents and relatives educating their children and relatives? Eteret seems to have ignored whatever she was told by them.
Please anyone....What is the name of the so called "Ex- Anti-Israeli Extremist"? I'm on a mission to protect a member of my family and would like to follow up. Can't say more. Thank you and shalom, may our eyes be opened and remain so.
That woman? Ateret Violet Shmuel
*the original jewish people were dark brown people, with long nose, and straight hair, but most of the true jewish people were converted to muslims, and CHRISTIANS, BECAUSE THE PERSECUTIONS OF BOTH NONE JEWS AND FAKE JEW WHITE SKIN PALE SUPRE.MAC.ISTS. FACT.*
Such a patronizing beginning.
People dont want to see millions of people trapped in an open air prison, with food, water cut off lady.
Open Air Prison with no food? Do you mean North Korea?
@OhUiginn
Israel defying ICJ ruling to prevent genocide by failing to allow adequate humanitarian aid to reach Gaza
One month after the International Court of Justice (ICJ) ordered “immediate and effective measures” to protect Palestinians in the occupied Gaza Strip from the risk of genocide by ensuring sufficient humanitarian assistance and enabling basic services, Israel has failed to take even the bare minimum steps to comply, Amnesty International said today.
I never heard of anyone in north Korea being denied WATER.
But several people have died because of dehydration in gaza.
Maybe have a word with Egypt?
@@nosuchthing8 No one is starving or dying through dehydration in Gaza because of Israel. Hamas is stealing supplies which Israel is delivering to the People of Gaza.
@@nosuchthing8 Amnesty are full of it, don't seem to understand what constitutes occupation under international law, or they do and are politically invested in lying, and it really comes down to whom you believe. I've seen pics of stockpiled aid in Gaza that no one was accessing. It wasn't the IDF blocking its distribution. The pier is working better than expected and delivering aid . The pier is partly destroyed - whom do you believe? Israel alone were bringing in hundreds of trucks to deliver around 3x the daily calorie requirements for Gazans, over and above what the ICJ ruled. Al Jazeera et al be saying that they're blocking it and deliberately starving people. I've seen countless vids from inside Gaza selling Israeli fruit and vegetables on the street markets - good quality, abundant quantities. I've seen Gazans looting said trucks, shooting at and throwing large stones at, with windscreens shot in and injuring or running over people, driven by Egyptian aid volunteers. Not Israel's fault. Israel are not denying people water, nor are they responsible for them! When have you ever heard of an army being held responsible for the civilian population of the 'enemy' forces while the enemy government themselves steal aid, hide in tunnels and deliberately starve people to boost the death count cos it looks good for a propaganda war (the only one they're going to win)?
Technically speaking Zionism is more fanaticism, then fascism,
And now she supports Trump 😂😂😂😂
It is 2024. is it normal and acceptable for a country to hold millions of people under occupation for decades!
Is it normal and acceptable that a "millions of people" to believe in extermination of a entire nation of Israel.
Read about Sahih Hadith "It has been narrated by 'Umar b. al-Khattib that he heard the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) say: I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim."
So we are not talking here about a "normal" people and a normal Western democratic values, but about the extreme and death cult believes that originates in the history and believes of that "occupied people".
For an Arab to make peace with Jews is like not believing in they own prophet and that is not acceptable for them. And that is the reality. We have to stop that!
You should ask hamas, they have kept their people dirt poor while they steal their money that the world send every month....they got money for war, but can't feed the poor 👎
White European colonists ended slavery and it’s crazy how just simplistic she writes off big complex concepts
Third time watching this: my impression of what she said:
She WAS previously a radial human rights activist from equality for EVERY minority. Then - in some way got in to an extreme jewish nationalistic environment that embraced her with open arms and made her believe that jewish history and her Jewish identity would be far more important than human rights for Palestinians.
Therefore she is now STILL a human rights advocate for ALL minorities … - however with the “tiny” exception that of all the minorities she fights for human rights for - PALESTINIANS are conveniently ignored.
I share your exact thoughts my friend. It’s saddening to see that someone left-leaning fell for propaganda so easily. Countless millionaires and politicians peddle this kind of rhetoric despite being openly antisemitic themselves, e.g. John Hagee. But supposedly the "real" antisemites are the people who oppose the illegal displacement of millions of people and the slaughter of tens of thousands without cause.
09:35 It is their fault.
They are ignorant. If they KNEW they were ignorant, they wouldn't be ignorant. Which part of this simple equation don't you understand? The fault lies with those who KNOW that what they say and teach is wrong, but do it nonetheless.
It’s a beautiful bit of propaganda
Would this woman talk with AP?
I was HOPING this video would be a jumping off point for some sort of debate on these issues.
Instead, this video promotes the idea that anything israel does can be justified by using the antisemitism card.
That won't work, many jewish thinkers like norman finkelstein (sp?) would disagree.
He’s a self hating Commie who tried to genocide his Mexican neighbors and called them “apes”.
Yeah, she doesn’t present any facts in this video to refute that the Israeli govt is ethnically cleansing Palestinians out of Gaza. She’s not a serious person
Question to Everyone. Do you forgive her? Yes or No?
Settler/colonialism is wrong. Do not conflate Zionism with Judaism.
Are you also for open boarders?
Critical thinking, as a privileged person, requires blithely believing victim narratives with no further consideration. Knowledge of history or geopolitics is not necessary in order to be entitled to a loud opinion, and there is no need to understand context or take perspective when your righteous indignation tells you to identify with whoever has the most insane demands.
Churchill, who was one of the people who fought the most against the fascists, said that Zionism is the way he hopes the Jews will follow and avoid communism, because Zionism leads Jews back to the path of their ancestors while communism does the opposite.
I am not a Jew. I live on my ancestral homelands, and it means something to me. So I do get that feeling.
.
I have questioned the colonialization, because jews in Israel could just as well be seen as UN-refugees coming to their designated place.
.
As to apartheid, that seems to apply to the Westbank, and the locals identifying as palestinians.
.
To me, looking from afar, it seems those who belong and feel at home between the Mediterranean and the Jordan river really need to talk, to listen and clarify concepts.
.
There seems to be a lot of unsanctioned hooliganism and obstructions to local inhabitant's who live there.
.
And, yes. I agree. Many protesting young jews, as well as others are good people. I have blocked numerous people who put laughing emojis on human suffering. These people pass that test, because they are empathetic. I would not call them self hating, just concerned, wanting justice.
.
People like you give me hope that Israel can and will find a better direction.
.
And, still: There is a lot to learn. Thanks for the insight.
It's hard for young Jewish Americans to avoid the attraction of the loud and proud majority voices on campuses today. And I know they see themselves as humanitarian and feel outraged by the news they consume regarding Gaza and the West Bank. Still, I would like to ask those who claim to be proud of their heritage but proclaim to be anti-zionists, when exactly did Jews go wrong and become oppressors? Was it when they legally bought land before coming as refugees in the decades before independence? Was the League of Nations' vote for Israel's statehood illegitimate? Should they have gone elsewhere despite their longstanding historical connection to the land? Or maybe when the Arabs started a war and lost, then demanded a right to return? Did Jews go wrong when countless attempts for peace failed because their Arab neighbors refused to acknowledge any right to exist, however small? Or was it when after countless attacks on innocent civilians, they were forced to ensure their safety?
2;53 facts
I have this idealized vision of Israel, I think it is very similar to what the founders had in mind-multicultural, steadfastly democratic, but with Jews in charge so that we could have one tiny sliver in the world where we could truly have agency and self-determination in a world that can quickly turn against us for no reason other than our lineage or religion. However...what about the Jews on the extreme right who kill Muslims and destroy their homes in the West Bank? Jews are indigenous, yes, and a great many Muslims arrived with the Muslim Conquest or perhaps not even until the 20th century, but there has got to be a better way to deal with the situation in the West Bank than what we've been seeing for decades. Those extremists significantly alter the public perception of what Israel or Jewish identity is all about. It's endlessly frustrating.
And it is worse : genocidal
I don’t agree that their hearts are in the right place. If you seek God everything falls in place. They have hate in their hearts so they can’t think or see clearly. Hence why they will not listen to the other side. Oh and
Jesus is LORD 🙌🏼
*the original jewish people were dark brown people, with long nose, and straight hair, but most of the true jewish people were converted to muslims, and CHRISTIANS, BECAUSE THE PERSECUTIONS OF BOTH NONE JEWS AND FAKE JEW WHITE SKIN PALE SUPRE.MAC.ISTS. FACT.*
May Jesus forgive the Zionist Jews who have stolen the land that belongs to the descendants of Jesus’ first disciples (the Palestinian People). Jesus knows many of the Jewish People have lost their way, but they can come back. Theft is a sin. It’s one of the 10 Commandments. Rationalizing sin is also a sin.
@@chezbh "Palestine" has never been a country or a state. Infact the term was used by Hadrian as an insult to the Jews and the term now is used politically. It's a false term.
Ty for this interview it's so enlightening even though most of what's talked about is similar to what I went through as a Christian left wing activist.
However, I've never heard of the flotilla (Ok I'm naive I thought that was a Latin food). This girl says she saw the footage and what went down, but I'm wondering where? What went down?
hopefully you can find an objective account of "what went down". good search terms would include May 2010 flotilla; Israel; Turkey; and Mavi Mamara.
🤣
Is islam a religion based on the concept of colonialism?
Yes. They dare to lie and call Israel a colonialist country even though the Jews are the natives of this land, while they take over the Western countries.
Islam is completely colonialist in nature. There are two houses of Islam. The house of Islam and the house of war. They are always at war and think everything belongs to them.
I don’t know which comment to respond to - such a mess of delusion .
1) this discussion about Zionism as a colonizing project could be over quickly if you go back and read the writings of the founders . They openly and proudly discussed it as the
“ Colonization “ of Palestine , because that word had no baggage in the 1890’s.
2) “ Jews are natives “?
Judaism is a religion - there is no DNA test for that .
The myths about “ returning”
Are just that - Myths .
Read Schlomo Sand .
Just as likely the majority of Jews did not leave the region
2000 years ago - they stayed put and converted to Christianity and Islam .
3) Who cares about ancient history anyway ?
We need to deal with reality on the ground now .
First most important is to stop prioritizing one group over the other with special rights and privileges .
That is antithetical to Zionism as it is constructed , so it either needs to change or be recognized as the failed supremacist ideology that it is .
Islamist Students....Just ask all of them how they would balance the forced dispossession of the 1.2m Jews that lived in neighbouring countries (since 1880 in 1948 numbers) and the 600k Arabs that left Israel of their own accord due to invading Arab armies and apportion just compensation to both groups on an even per capita basis. Exclude Arab itinerant workers in Israel who should be termed temporary work visa holders, they and their children in 1920-1948 would quite possible have numbered 200k. Clearly the loss by the Jews of Arabia and the Middle East is many times greater than the Arabs of the Kingdom Israel. Consider also that the descendants of the Jews of Arabia and the Middle east number almost 6m in Israel today. Why should they ever be subservient to an Arab Islamist government. Study history and don't read Al Jazeera as it is run by the Brotherhood to further Islamic ideology. The 2 state solution was always Israel and Jordan The Syrian and Egyptian Arabs rejected the split to this day. The Gaza war casualties inflicted by IDF in reality are for women and children so low it would embarrass the BBC to report them.
Why does she wear a hat like George Calloway?
She likes hats and she looks cool, too.
It's fairly common to see people go from the Left to far right. It's even mentioined in the video: handbagged by reality. But how genuine is it?
Being indigenous is an interesting concept now, because it seems that everyone is indigineous apart from Jews in Israel and Europeans. If you are a white european, that term does not apply to you. But I am indigineous European /as far as I know/ just as other ethnicities are. Also, people act like Europe has no cultural heritage. It´s the cultural heritage of everybody elses that matter, which is sad. (Having said that, I do not wish to deny what white people have done around the world. But maybe people should realise that white people are not the root of all evil. People from all around the world have colonised and enslaved other people. It´s just popular now to talk about white europeans in that regard.
👆🏽
It seems like colonization to me.
Looking at demographics the Jewish population was miniscule in Israel during the Ottoman empire. 1.7% at one point. Most of the hostility in the Middle East seemed to have been a reaction to the Zionist movement. Armed settlers backed by colonial powers arrive in mass with the mission of creating an ethnostate on the land Palestinians have been living on for hundreds or thousands of years(Many of the of them before the British Occupation were descended from converted Jews). They also literally called themselves colonists, and "a people without a land". I know a lot of Arabs came looking for work, but they seem to have integrated rather than form a seperate national identity.
Any country would consider their land grabs an act of war whether they are Islamic or not. Vietcong, South Africans, Native Americans, etc... This would apply whether they were an "official state" or loosely affiliated tribes with a shared national identity. This would be alarming if land acquisitions were "ethical" or not.The post WW1 land purchases seem to have been a disaster by paying Ottomans rather that the people who actually lived there.
If a bunch of Christians tried to remake the Byzantine empire and did the same thing in Turkey would that be "decolonization". Or do Jews have exclusive rights to decolonize.
What am I missing?
You are missing the bias of certain other people who ignore or downplay the many facts you cited .
“ Most of the hostility seemed to have been a reaction to the Zionist movement “
100% . The large Jewish communities lived well in cities like Bagdad or Damascus or Algiers or …
I hear so many Zionists talk about how there are no Jews in Arab countries but they conveniently miss why and when that occurred.
You were right about the population proportions as well ..
What I saw in the 1890’s census was 85% Muslim , 10% Christian , 5% Jewish .
And you were absolutely right the early architects of Zionism described their project as the
“ Colonization of Palestine “.
There was no hiding what they were intending , as there is now .
And the “ purchasing” land story … if there is a just God that argument would not hold up in his court .
All in all nice assimilation of facts and context in a short paragraph .👏🏽
1.7% "at one point" in a 600 year reign? What about the other points across that long arc? There've been ebbs and flows and pogroms and expulsions and discriminatory laws that made life very difficult for Jewry under the Ottoman colonisers. What's your point? That the Jews were pushed out of their homeland by oppressive conditions? Well yes, that certainly happened. If you think living under a jizya is a trivial thing, try giving half of your income away every week to your local mosque or imam; you'll soon start to get an idea of how hard it was for Jews to stay on their land, and the Ottomans were by far not the worst or most brutal of conquerors.
You're missing a lot of detail, I don't even know where to start. The Jews were betrayed badly by the Brits and the Americans, the latter only lifting arms embargoes and beginning to support them after they unexpectedly won the six-day war and showed themselves a power to be reckoned with (and potentially useful to the US). The Brits banned their migration, turned ships away from Palestine and several times attacked them, gave a huge change of their designated land to Transjordan to appease the Arabs (that didn't work), refused to let Holocaust orphans enter Palestine leading to the unnecessary deaths of thousands of children, armed the Arab League militias before they effed off thanks largely to the Zionists making them unwelcome (decolonising their land, if you will), many of whom the English helped arm were volunteers from other nations, in the Arabs' aim to exterminate every Jew from what they saw as all theirs (this is Qu'ranic law, that once a land falls to the Muslims, it is forever 'theirs').
I'd hardly call all that being "backed by colonial powers".
It's not to say the Arabs weren't allowed to have hurt feelings and deep resentment about the process of Jews returning to their land - they're certainly entitled to them. Non-violent people suffered unfairly because of their hostile leadership and countrymen, but they never blame themselves or their own culture when the eternal scapegoat, the Jews who in their holy book are called, along with Christians, "the worst of creatures" are far easier to kick around and rail against.
I don't know why you think the "people without a land" statement makes them colonisers -- which nation or metropole are the diaspora supposedly colonising from then? They were refugees, more accurately. Arab assimilation isn't evidence of their indigeneity, but perhaps their homogeneity, and the stranglehold of Islam. Nation states weren't big in that culture; it was all about the tribes (and still is, with key families holding great influence in Gaza) and ensuring the submission of all non-Muslims under Islam.
We're never going to understand it all properly if we don't include Arab colonialism and compulsory Islamisation and the pursuit of subjugating all other groups that unites the Arab Muslim world. The making of nations has ALWAYS been a messy business, and I don't know if any haven't involved bloodshed. What IS peculiar is how singularly obsessed the world has twisted themselves to be over this particular one, the ONLY Jewish nation surrounded by 22 Arab nation states.
I'm Australian (and part Ashkenazi as luck would have it) and our history here is dark and horrible and involved and actual genocide against the indigenous population who now make up only ~3.5% of us, most with European or other heritage too. We are a colonial outpost, and that cannot be undone and funnily enough, very few people are calling for it, despite our First Nations people having a very good case for reparations and telling the lot of us to p*ss off. Why isn't the world trying to boycott us and send us all 'back to where we came from'? Is it okay after 250 years of government policies discriminating against Aboriginal people (and for a while, non-Anglo/Euro migrants) because enough time has gone by? So many of your questions about what is right are going to create more problems, wars, and suffering than everyone taking stock of where we are and trying in earnest to get along and live side by side and forgive and make up for past wrongs. We can't undo history, but yet so many enlightened and caring people are ready to endorse the wholesale genocide and mass transfer of 9 million Israelis to... .where? on a matter of principle, because their neighbours refuse to accept the past and stop trying to unalive them all? It's ridiculous and counter-productive for a people if they *actually* want an end to the violence.
If the Palestinians are so historically good at assimilating, they have many choices of neighbouring countries to negotiate assimilating in to that don't require the genocide of Jews, again.
@@sandy_of_joxyou did more wandering there than there is time to respond to in YT comments .
But I will skip to your meaningful addressing of the reality on the ground today -
You say people are calling for the 7m Jews in Israel to leave , and what would be better is for the Palestinians to “ assimilate “
( leave ) into neighboring countries.
Despite all the long writing that preceded it , your statements end up right in line with the current government of Israel .
How about the Jews stay , the Palestinians stay ( with equal rights which is not the situation now ) , and there is right of return for both Jews and Palestinians who want to immigrate .?
That is the solution proposed by most Palestinians I speak with .
@@GardenerGeorge Mate, anyone studying this conflict knows its complexities are very hard to pour into a readable YT comment! So here's another tl;dr for ya to cherry pick from.
Palestinians have equal rights in Israel, for a start. Under international law, the West Bank is not under Israeli occupation. The last illegal occupation was Jordan, but after the six-day war, and before Jordan, there was no 'sovereign state' to be occupying in strictly legal terms. If you don't like that, take it up with someone like Natasha Housdorff, who knows what she's talking about far better than this rando student of all things Israel/Palestine.
You are saying I said it's better for the Palestinians to leave (back to where they came from in no small proportions we might add), not me. It certainly is IF they can't/won't live in peace, but of course the ones who partake of fighting and Jew hatred are the ones who always refuse to back down, because their objective is ongoing war, not peace. And probably vice versa the other side, and on and on it goes. NEVER have any Arab leadership before, during or after the mandate period made ANY sincere reparations or proposals for peace. Arafat pretended to, talking about peace out one side of his mouth, while speaking in Arabic about the Hudaybiya agreement he just made with Israel, referring to Muhammad famously betraying a peace treaty only to declare war while his 'enemy' were on the back foot (funny thing to do for a so-called nationalist), which Arafat promptly emulated by lighting the fire of the second(?) intifada. The Israeli right-wing only gained power after the horrors of those intifadas, sewer side bombings in malls, discos and school buses etc and multiple regrettable security breaches and built that wall to protect their people as well as Palestinians who were often collateral damage in the attempted murders. And it worked. Up until then and even after, the majority of Israelis persisted in believing they could have peace with the neighbours and very much wanted their government to secure those peace deals. As did many of those in the kibbutzim who were murdered by psychos on 7th October. They unalived people they knew were peace activists, while 'innocent civilians' aided in the kidnappings and looting.
Was it Rabin or Peres who got elected on the promise of handing over the West Bank entirely before he got assassinated. Good thing it didn't come about. We can all deduce what would have happened with Islamic Jihad having access to elevated areas with a view of Tel Aviv and other Jewish or mixed cities becoming within convenient firing range of a portable rocket launcher. Just like the land for peace deal in Gaza, where Hamas instantly levelled Gush Katif and built missile launching infrastructure on the ashes of the lucrative greenhouses the Israelis handed them. If you're an Israeli you care about people not coming to unalive your kids while they're riding the bus to school. Do you have no sympathy/understanding of the impossible bind that puts them in? They've seen the failed peace attempts and the hatred from the other side that never ends. We who don't live there have the luxury of taking a side on the basis of 'principles' or the take on history that makes sense to us. If I lived there I daresay I'd be cynical af about 'peace' by now, after witnessing the pointless insanity of Islamists firsthand (and yes most of them are - you won't hear Marxists shouting allahu akhbar as they pull the trigger).
Your claim about the Middle Eastern/Muslim pogroms and expulsions of Jews in the 1940s-early 1950s as being a reaction to Zionists moving to Palestine: so they had no sympathy for the millions of Jews who'd been murdered and the survivors who literally had nowhere else to go? Telling. And why would they force out Jewish families in Baghdad and Beirut etc who'd been there for generation after generation, take their money/homes just because some other Jews bought their way to Palestine? Sounds like underlying racism/xenophobia to me and like they were jumping on an opportunity to do what they already wanted to do - if they didn't already see those Iraqi Jews etc as outsiders, there would have been no Farhud in 1941. The message from Arabs to the Jews (or at least the leaderships) in the Middle East, since at least the dawn of Islam has been Jews can stay only if they remain subservient, don't offend any Muslims, and pay the jizya. That's not self-determination, and is no way to live for a persecuted people.
Jerusalem was about 80% Jewish in the last half of the 1800s I have read too, btw - there were more or less Jewish/Arab dominated population centres and those considerations were very much factored in when the Zionists were trying to figure out how to get what they wanted without displacing the existing local Arab population - hence the weird distribution of the 1947 partition plan to accommodate which ethnic/religious majority already lived where. They were trying to disturb the least amount of locals while maintaining the capacity of the Jews to have majority areas where they would not be forced back into the old patterns of submission and be free to practice their religion and culture without persecution, or limiting others.
I wish people would stop trying to airbrush out Arab Muslim aggression from history. It's been an ongoing theme that's had a huge impact on everyone in the Middle East, and that rejectionism is the reason there are terrorists under the purview of the Muslim Brotherhood in Gaza today, another bloody war, and the peaceful people being trodden over once again. It's important to separate out the common people who generally cop the worst of war as opposed to the elites in both societies too, would you agree? There are parallel stories happening where many things can be true at once, and conflating leaders' bad decisions with the rest of the population, the 'norms' doesn't get us anywhere but confused and completely at odds.
@@sandy_of_joxI left this platform and did not see your response until today .
Just as well .
* Palestinians have equal rights within Israel ? Cmon .
Look up 2018 Nation State Law .
Look up some interviews with Palestinians in East Jerusalem or West Bank .
Equal is a ludicrous and uninformed assertion .
• “ telling “?
Whatever .
You have no idea who I am and it does not seem like you have a very informed opinion of the range of people who call themselves “ Palestinian “.
It suits your narrative of this as an existential religious conflict to justify aggression and violence as the only solutions .
I am not going to change your mind in these small screen paragraphs , but try meeting some real Palestinians .
Every time I have it seems clear this is about land and justice
Look at the any islamic state and you,ll know where to find fascism.😅😅😅
They sided with the knotzees
She is so full of it
It is beyond me how a decent person can accomodate the self evidently nothing but racist classification of people by colour as good and bad in such terms. The racialist concept is Nazi in kind. So I have no time for contemplating to assign "good intentions" for such people. They are evil if accept that, Jews or not Jews. I have a hunch that the hero of this video would have stayed with that crowd if not finding herself on the wrong end of the classification, so my respect for her is limited. Sure it is good that she realised, but this was not it seems or in every sense for the right reasons,
that's intersectionalism as she mentioned, poorly applied and still relying on stereotypes as a cover-all way to understand the world. There seems to be a love for oversimplifying things into good/bad categories among my fellow lefties. Makes complex issues easier to chant about with punchy slogans, and who doesn't love a punch slogan to get the fire in the belly going! :/
@@sandy_of_jox Intersectionalism is nonsense.
@@Borzasnyul it's not nonsense, but it is certainly applied poorly all too often by those who want to hide their own totalitarian ideas behind that of correcting conditions of unfair and unnecessary discrimination. Kimberle Crenshaw used it to describe the very real discrimination against black woman in the US, and women in general, and it's been usefully applied to advocate for recognition of systemic abuses and lack of equality for people with disabilities, migrant workers, elderly etc for the upliftment of people who need and deserve it. There's just always a*holes who go and corrupt and ruin a good thing.
@@sandy_of_jox You do say decent sounding things, but I am very sorry, I reject in full the entire Critical Race Theory, or be it Critical Theory approach including lingo as fundamentally hostile to reality, in essence evil whatever the the verbiaged good intentions. I am an enemy of the entire left whether the National Socialist or the Communist kind, including the - very sorry - to my mind superfluous invention of "intersectionalism". No such exists. It is in the perverted, deluded mind of the neo Marxist CommunNazis only, hell bent to destroy the World. They are anti-life, anti-human power hungry monsters. I reject their striving to destroy the language. Having lived long under Communism of the older variety I learned their techniques too well and it is very clear to me that the artificial lingo they always invent to dominate discourse in an authoritarian fashion (what else, coming from them?) is to be rejected in full. They are my enemy, and if you are leftist so are you to my no little regret as I prefer friendliness, harmony. There can not be common ground on the basis of relying on artificial Marxist in character terms.
Comment about the problem being "ashkenormativity" was very inappropriate. As one of the guests said, these children have no Jewish background and don't connect to Israel's history for that reason. To say it is because they are "ashkenazim" or "white," is really playing the same game that the haters do. And many ashkenazim (like me) are darker skinned than all these women.
All is about ignorance
Theodor Herzl, the founder of zionism, was neither religiously educated nor a religious jew. He was an atheist and he collaborated with several antisemites when discussing the colonization of Palestine with British ministers without conferring with Palestinians themselves. The entire idea of anti-zionism being antisemitism relies on conflating zionism with judaism which is categorically false given the majority of jews in the USA are actually anti-zionist.
To imply that the zionist settlers are indigenous to Palestinian land is absurd. Being indigenous doesn’t mean having ancestry in a region separated by some thousands of years of living in a different region. If that were the case, I could claim to be an indigenous African as humanity hailed from there. But being indigenous is so much more than geography or common ancestry. It’s about one’s relationship with the land, culture, oral and written tradition. Taking someone's farms that had been passed down generations for 100s of years, ripping away their handmade clothes that were rich with knowledge and culture, and killing their children, is not something an indigenous culture would do. That's settler colonialism in its most obvious form and theft of someone else's culture.
Are you so sure that the majority of American Jews overall agree with you, or just the younger generation(s)? Also quoting people from previous conversations is much less meaningful than their actions. Jews came from many places but almost always as refugees, not colonists. There is no question Indigenous Arabs lost their land, not because it was stolen, but because they started a war and lost. Unfortunately, this happened throughout history. But unlike all other refugees who are forced to move onward, the UN community has perpetuated the myth that Palestinians have a right to return. Your outrage is understandable at the mistreatment of these people, but your blame should be against the UN, Iran, and the Palestinian leadership, not Israel.
----------------------------------------
Zionism has been described as a form of settler colonialism in relation to the region of Palestine and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Many of the fathers of Zionism themselves described it as colonialism, such as Vladimir Jabotinsky, who said "Zionism is a colonization adventure."
---------------------------------------- ("Zionism as settler colonialism" Wikipedia)
Which 'many' fathers? The Zionists weren't and still aren't a monolith. Haviv Rettig Gur went into this in a recent podcast, the types of Zionism. Some came from the religious yearning for return more than others who were Marxists or uber-socialists. Not all of them understood their own cultural history, having come from families who had to learn to adapt to European life on the fringes of whatever society they found themselves in. Some came from rejecting religious sentiment altogether, some were more sentimental, others more practical and influenced by the modern idea of nation states, some became quite militant as a response to increasing pogroms against their people. They didn't all think one way. There's a saying about that - ask two Jews a question, get three different answers or something.
@@sandy_of_jox
------------------------------
I will argue that Zionist settlers-indeed, Zionist thought and praxis-were motivated by a national impulse but acted as pure colonialists. Such an argument has not been easily accepted until today in the United States and Israel. The immigration of Jews from (mainly eastern) Europe to the heart of the Arab Middle East is still depicted today in those places as a pure nationalist enterprise, and any attempt to attribute colonialist features to it is rejected out of hand. This is a bewildering phenomenon in the age of professional historiography. Zionism was not, after all, the only case in history in which a colonialist project was pursued in the name of national or otherwise noncolonialist ideals. Zionists relocated to Palestine at the end of a century in which Europeans controlled much of Africa, the Caribbean, and other places in the name of “progress” or idealism not unfamiliar to the Zionist movement. It happened in a century when French settlers colonized Algeria, claiming an atavist and emotional link to the Algerian soil no less profound than the one professed by the early Zionists with regard to Eretz Yisrael. Similarly, the cynical reassurances of the Zionist settlers to the native population were heard before by British settlers in Africa and Asia. Like the Zionists, the colonies built by Europeans in these continents were allegedly for the benefit of the local people. As it turned out, the colonies became imperialist communities serving only the strategic interests of European powers and the settlers themselves. In the period of the white man’s penetration into Africa and Asia, the Jews “returned” to their “homeland.”
(Zionism as Colonialism: A Comparative View of Diluted Colonialism in Asia and Africa ~ Ilan Pappe)
The Historical Setting of Zionist Colonialism
The frenzied ‘Scramble for Africa’ of the 1880s stimulated the beginnings of Zionist colonisation in Palestine. As European fortunehunters, prospective settlers, and empire builders raced for Africa, Zionist settlers and would-be state-builders rushed for Palestine ~ Fayez Sayegh,
“Settler colonialism, which is what this is, is by far the worst kind of imperialism, because it gets rid of the native population. Other kinds of imperialism exploit them, but settler colonialism eliminates them, “exterminates” them, to use the words of the Founding Fathers.” ~ Noam Chomsky
Though even today colonialism is sometimes used in this older, broader sense, it more often denotes, in the words of Edward Said, “the implanting of settlements on a distant territory”-in short, settler colonialism.
Rashid Khalidi is a leading historian of the Middle East. In an interview, he explains how the current war in Palestine is the product of decades of violent settler colonialism designed to drive the Palestinians from their land.
Proponents of the paradigm of Zionism as settler colonialism include Edward Said, Rashid Khalidi, Noam Chomsky, Ilan Pappe, Fayez Sayegh, Maxime Rodinson, George Jabbour, Ibrahim Abu-Lughod, Baha Abu-Laban, Jamil Hilal, and Rosemary Sayigh.
@@sandy_of_jox Apparently my response can only be seen by using the "Sort by Newest First" filter.
@@sandy_of_jox
------------------------------
I will argue that Zionist settlers-indeed, Zionist thought and praxis-were motivated by a national impulse but acted as pure colonialists. Such an argument has not been easily accepted until today in the United States and Israel. The immigration of Jews from (mainly eastern) Europe to the heart of the Arab Middle East is still depicted today in those places as a pure nationalist enterprise, and any attempt to attribute colonialist features to it is rejected out of hand. This is a bewildering phenomenon in the age of professional historiography. Zionism was not, after all, the only case in history in which a colonialist project was pursued in the name of national or otherwise noncolonialist ideals. Zionists relocated to Palestine at the end of a century in which Europeans controlled much of Africa, the Caribbean, and other places in the name of “progress” or idealism not unfamiliar to the Zionist movement. It happened in a century when French settlers colonized Algeria, claiming an atavist and emotional link to the Algerian soil no less profound than the one professed by the early Zionists with regard to Eretz Yisrael. Similarly, the cynical reassurances of the Zionist settlers to the native population were heard before by British settlers in Africa and Asia. Like the Zionists, the colonies built by Europeans in these continents were allegedly for the benefit of the local people. As it turned out, the colonies became imperialist communities serving only the strategic interests of European powers and the settlers themselves. In the period of the white man’s penetration into Africa and Asia, the Jews “returned” to their “homeland.”
(Zionism as Colonialism: A Comparative View of Diluted Colonialism in Asia and Africa ~ Ilan Pappe)
@@sandy_of_jox
The Historical Setting of Zionist Colonialism
The frenzied ‘Scramble for Africa’ of the 1880s stimulated the beginnings of Zionist colonisation in Palestine. As European fortunehunters, prospective settlers, and empire builders raced for Africa, Zionist settlers and would-be state-builders rushed for Palestine ~ Fayez Sayegh,
“Settler colonialism, which is what this is, is by far the worst kind of imperialism, because it gets rid of the native population. Other kinds of imperialism exploit them, but settler colonialism eliminates them, “exterminates” them, to use the words of the Founding Fathers.” ~ Noam Chomsky
Though even today colonialism is sometimes used in this older, broader sense, it more often denotes, in the words of Edward Said, “the implanting of settlements on a distant territory”-in short, settler colonialism.
Rashid Khalidi is a leading historian of the Middle East. In an interview, he explains how the current war in Palestine is the product of decades of violent settler colonialism designed to drive the Palestinians from their land.
Proponents of the paradigm of Zionism as settler colonialism include Edward Said, Rashid Khalidi, Noam Chomsky, Ilan Pappe, Fayez Sayegh, Maxime Rodinson, George Jabbour, Ibrahim Abu-Lughod, Baha Abu-Laban, Jamil Hilal, and Rosemary Sayigh.
I will listen. But why would I give moral support to someone that is starving a million people? Does not compute.
Who starved the Christians and Jews in Lebanon?
Crybullies
I had just left another comment where I said it was ridiculous to to suppose that the Palestinians would be the proper targets for revanche in answer to Conquests made by the Greeks and Romans more than two millenniums ago, and that they should simply call a spade a spade, that might makes right, and that they're taking back Israel under the old rules that govern Medieval Hero Barbarism. After submitting that comment, well, then I thought about the House of Saud in Saudi Arabia, considering that Arabia was only a fractured version of itself after the First World War, split up between a host of tribes, and would have been easy enough for any Western Power to have swooped in and conquered, but before Oil was discovered there, it wouldn't have been worth the bullets. BUT Ibn Saud, the Founder of the new Dynasty had used force of arms to effectively consolidate Saudi Arabia. THEREFORE it can be said that Israel has as much right to rule by force of arms as Saudi Arabia, or as much rights to any of the lands of the former Ottoman Empire as the Allies had, simply because they took it in a War. Yes, we need to understand that while nowadays we have War Crimes, well, it is therefore implicit that Wars are in fact LEGAL as long as one follows the Rules, and the PRECEDENTS, and the precedential history so far behind the New Innovation of there being such a thing as War Crimes (previously it was understood that War was tantamount to the suspension of all Law, everything being fair in Love and War, but in practice only those who LOSE Wars have been put forward for any crimes. Really, Harry Truman Atom Bombed Civilian Populations in Japan but his firebombing of Tokyo and Dresden actually killed more people... civilian targets, but nobody even thought of indicting him, while they went after Germans and Japanese who had only been enlisted men, killing at only the Retail level. So, don't blow smoke with wild stories of making up for Ancient Greek and Roman Conquests by carpet bombing the Palestinians, just man up to good old fashioned Feudal Medieval Might Makes Right, and stand strong next to the bloody handed King of Saudi Arabia (well his Grandson, but if you compare photos of the great Ibn Saud and the present crowned Prince, his Grandson, Mohammed Bin Saud, well, the family resemblance is uncanny. . .
Palestinians are very fair skinned, well the ones I’ve met. Blonde, blue abd green eyed and some light tanned