Ape Answers 005: Oscilloscope Bandwidth
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- Опубліковано 4 чер 2024
- Ape Answers is a short format video series where we answer Ham Radio related questions from viewers.
In this video, we cover some questions that were asked on my videos. Whether you're a beginner or an experienced user, we've got you covered with detailed explanations and solutions to common issues. Tune in to get your questions answered!
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Too funny. I was just looking at buying my first oscilloscope a few minutes ago. I switched over to YT to find some reviews and - boom! new video posted just in time.
Awesome, hope it helped NCC 👍
Ape! Very thorough and clear explanations for those of us who need ‘splain’n to. Thanks. 73 de Bill
Thanks for checking it out Bill 🍻
I just bought my first scope a few days ago. Waiting for delivery. I'm glad to know i can definitely use it to tinker with my old CB radio.
Awesome Kaylan, thanks for watching 👍
Hi Ape,
I've been a "scope" user since 1985, the Tektronix 2235 100 MHz model that I bought back then cost me an arm and a leg, but I still have it, it is fine for AF, CB and AM radio repairs.
However, people need to be careful when buying one of these behemoths.....
Over time, no matter what they've been used for, the CRT will end up with "screen-burn",
if you're going down that track, get the guy you're buying it from to turn the thing on and see what the display looks like, if it is hazy when the focus control is turned up, the CRT is toast.
One other thing, remember, if you drop one of these CRO's, or it falls off its shelf, you effectively have a box of broken glass, replacing the CRT is slim to nil, let alone the damage to the internal circuit boards and there are a few!
Personally, the DSO is the only way to go, smaller. lighter, way more functions and to be fair, easier to learn, because it will come with a manual.
Don't ever buy one of them hand-held scopes, I had a Fluke one (the model number I forget) for field work, it was so cumbersome and wasn't really that great, it suffered from interference from VSD's and I sold it and bought something better.
"Scopes" do take a bit to learn, off the bat, but once you get a basic idea of what they can do, they are an extremely powerful tool.
In closing, anyone that EVER learns to use a scope, should NEVER, EVER try and measure the mains voltage out of the wall or in a device under test unless they know how this should be done, your safety, the safety of the scope and anyone near could turn to custard, very quickly!!
Great video, Ape!
Some people hook up to variacs or other 1:1 transformers to isolate the DC from the scope. TSA is going to freak out that I, of all people, are recommending a 1:1, but this is really the only purpose for a 1:1 non-autoformer. Get that DC isolation. Otherwise you can blow breakers. N9XR
LOL @ the recommendation Jerry! But I agree isolation is a good thing.
Great advice Mike, thank you 👍
@@TheSmokinApe it's just DC isolation, SA. If you had commode RF currents, they will still flow through like diarrhea. I hope you haven't tried to put a probe ground on a hot node while it's plugged in without the DC isolation.
Good stuff, Your Apeness! 😁
Thank you 👍
Never disappointed... TY Ape
Thanks for watching BJHS 🍻
@@TheSmokinApe anytime brother. Enjoyed it.
A bit of extra detail:
Nyquist sampling of 2x the highest frequency of interest promises to capture the frequency information, nothing about amplitude.
And, like you said, having signals faster than the sampling rate causes aliasing, which may make the displayed waveform worthless.
Thank you for the additional detail Lee 👍
Nice! great explanation!
Thanks NJ4Z 👍
That's the good stuff! Thanks Ape. My scope says 100MHz bandwidth and 1GSa/s so, I think -after watching your video it should be okay for hf.
Probe bandwidth is 1x:6MHz
10x: 100MHz
Sounds like you are ready to get to probing!
@@TheSmokinApe Yes sir! I should call out of work tomorrow. I could probe all day
@@AndyAAzeroAM haha
good informative video Ape!!!!
Thanks BA 👍
Another good Episode Professor Ape!
Thanks for watching BH 👍
good job APE. my first scope is 30 MHz has tubes in it. still works . makes a nice heater. takes up the desk. my newer one is 1.2 GHz and has DB 9 on back to PC. it's RS 232. is 2 trace and totally isolated inputs and higher voltage rated. can put direct on 240VAC line. think 300 V AC/DC max input. my old scope has bounded grounds so watch for that. even the AC cord ground bounded to input jacks BNC. both are Techtronic's scopes. got used. and are LAB grade and was calibrated.. but years ago. for my use work great . I do have a PC scope one just has 2 BNC and USB . hook to PC but not great. does work. 73's
I wouldn't mind having some of the older one to play with. Thanks for watching Rob 👍
Nice! Can you demonstrate a measurement applying the principle you just explained and how to set the measurement device to prevent those pitfalls?
I will add it to the list, thanks for watching SS 👍
Really good video. To the point and calm masterful delivery like W2AEW.
I think I spotted a tiny typo in the slide at 5:45. For "[...] with a maximum frequency of 100MHz the sample rate should be at least 200 S/s."
The unit of the sampling rate here should be "MS/s". Next slide doesn't have this minor error, where frequency and sample magnitudes are matched, i.e. 1GHz ~> 1GS/s not being enough.
Good catch and thanks for the feedback 👍
One comment related to the -3db point in the context of oscilloscopes. Since they measure voltage and not power over time, the -3db is the point at which the voltage displayed by the oscilloscope is at 0.707 of the real value.
Great point and good catch Alex 👍
With my first Oszi, a SIWATSU 2x10MHz built in 1978, the only thing I'm missing is a transformer with lots of connections, which is defective and can't be found anywhere anymore.
Dang, it would be cool if you could get it running.
@@TheSmokinApeThanks, Ape.
I have a tiny oscope. It's great for audio and seeing that something is going on in a circuit but I wouldn't trust it to give me good numbers.
Thanks for watching Hax 👍
Always quality videos, Ape, thank you. Lol, it always seems like I'm in an upper level under grad class. 73, KF0NNQ.
Thank you Bill, glad you like them 👍
Also, for HiFi audio analysis, you need a good bit depth, which is very, very hard to find in oscopes.
Great point, thank you for watching 👍
Now I am wondering if I should get a nano vna?
Yeah, the NanoVNA is extremely helpful for ham radio.
@@TheSmokinApe the real question is do I get a rig expert or do I get a nano VNA?
C'mon son, the NanoVNA
@@TheSmokinApe ok
Like radios, get the biggest and baddest you can afford.... :)
Prolly sounds advice 👍
What kind of MF'ers operate on 160M anyway? Don't they know it's not HF?
Seriously though, the rise time is important for your oscilloscope. Even for your 146MHz signal, you could possibly see more garbage on the Baofeng if your BW was 1GHz or better.
Your oscilloscope should have a reference square wave to calibrate your probe with as well. It should have a really fast rise time or slew rate that is beyond the capability of the oscilloscope front end. Tune your probe for minimum overshoot. Also look for the proper amplitude.
I like probes that have a ground ring around the probe tip I pull off that springy sheath thingy and run a buss wire ground strap wrapped around that ground ring to a nearby ground on the board. It cuts out a ton of common mode voltage noise without any stinkin' 1:1 balun and returns to me the most accurate probed signal measurement possible.
But then again, I'm just a retired school bus driver. N9XR
160m is just above the AM Broadcast band.
I've been doing that band for close on 35 years. 😂
@@mikeZL3XD7029we have so many HFers, it's good we have a few MFers on the MF band.
The MF had me laughing pretty hard...
Ha Ha Ha, I must have been really tired last night when I commented, that joke went straight over my head.
As they say down here, Noice!!
@@mikeZL3XD7029 no harm no foul OM.
With my first Oszi, a SIWATSU 2x10MHz built in 1978, the only thing I'm missing is a transformer with lots of connections, which is defective and can't be found anywhere anymore.
The old iwatsu's had the best - most vibrant displays back in the day. Very nice 👍. N9XR
@@BusDriverRFI True, it has a 'vibranting' parallax error when you look at the front glass at an angle. The oscitube behind it can be rotated mechanically to align the track horizontally. ;-)
@@karlbesser1696 I did not know