Best Batman Ever: Detective Comics by Steve Englehart and Marshall Rogers
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- Опубліковано 6 лип 2021
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My favorite Batman creator is definitely Joe Chill.
You win all the internets today!
@@JonasGreenFethr
I'm laughing and crying!
I don't know I think that ignores the seminal contribution of Thomas Wayne and Martha Wayne's nurturing of the character.
@@allanolley4874 It was a joke.
My brother and I met Marshall Rogers at the Atlanta Comicon in 1978, during his great Batman run.
He drew a full page pencil and ink portrait of Batman for us and signed all of his books.
We saw him again at the '89 Atlanta Con, and took a picture with him, holding the framed drawing.
Sadly, Marshall is no longer with us, but we still have his body of work and that great sketch he did to remind us of his greatness 🦇
I am green haired with envy!
The combo of Denny O'Neill and Neil Adams can't be topped
Just collect both runs. Each has a MUST Joker story too...
During the 70's I was a Marvel only fan. Batman was my favorite DC character, but I had limited funds and I refused to cross that line. And then at the 1976 comiccon, I meet my favorite writer; Steve Englehart. He informed us that he was moving to DC and writing Detective comics. I was forced to make the move with him and never looked back. So yeah, this is my favorite period of the book. Batman at the edge, but never falling off.
Wagner, Grant & Breyfogle.
Their Detective Comics run introduced a new visual language for Batman, introduced new Villains and emphasized the "Detective".
Absolutely.
Can't go wrong with the creators of Judge Dredd writing and Breyfogle's unique style that fits Batman perfectly.
The best!!
YUP !
"The Laughing fish" is an absolute classic.. I love it!
This is truly my favorite Batman story ever.
Finally!! I've thought that no one else had the same level of appreciation for the saga than I did! First discovered it when I was 13, and was IMMEDIATELY blown away by both writing and artwork. One doesn't always get both-this team, however, delivered BIG time! Englehart writes a "competent crusader", very different from virtually all other renditions since Frank Miller. As Batman said himself "Sometimes, my world goes crazy", however HE never does. As opposed to being obsessed and compulsed, Englehart writes Bruce as driven and determined; yes, fueled by his parents' death, yet determined that no one else will suffer a similar fate, if he can help it. To see Robin as able-bodied rescuer, rather than the hostage-"boy wonder" made his appearance equally special; their scenes in the restored Batcave showed the comraderie and pride that each has one for the other. Speaking of The Batcave, having it restored as The Batman's base of operations (after he'd left in behind in 1969) was like welcoming back an old friend. (Englehart even came up with a plausible explanation for its origin.) Two questions for anyone: 1) Do you think Magda and Strange were involved? When they speak via device in #472, Magda is wearing nothing but a towel, apparently having just gotten out of the shower, but seem to have no problem with Hugo seeing her like that (or vice versa.) Just something I have wondered about. Great video, superior synopsis and YOU have just gotten yourself a new follower! Looking forward to more from you!
FINALLY!!!
MY ABSOLUTE MOST FAVORITE BATMAN RUN IS RECOGNIZED AND HAILED AS THE BEST RUN EVER!
I WISH I HAD A WAY TO MAKE LARGER LETTERS.
I THOUGHT I WAS THE ONLY PERSON THAT LOVED THAT RUN!!!
I was working in a local comic book shop
And I immediately recognized it as comic book gold!
At that time I worked at a niche comic book store and the comic shop owner would order at the most 20 copies of Detective comics because they would barely sell.
And as soon as I realized how great it was going to be I implored him to order 200 copies, he scoffed and told me that 'Detective comics NEVER sells!', I told him I was aware of that fact but I assured him that this was different, WAY DIFFERENT!
And after customers demanded more issues he timidly double his orders to 40 and each month after that until he reached the unheard of number of 300 issues.
Now, I could see the end of the run coming and I warned him (I was a fan of the fanzine The comic reader) to cut his orders back to 40 or less, again he scoffed and said " it's a hit! The customers LOVE IT!" Yet in the next few months sales of Detective comics dropped like a stone!
I have always said that that particular run of Detective comics was the catalyst for the Tim Burton batman films.
At that time I bought 10 copies of Detective comics each of the series.
I should have bought 100.
I could only afford 10.
Sigh
What a short sighted teen I was.
But the comic book store owner was a fool! (And I am being nice)
When I was a kid "The Deadshot Ricochet" was my favorite Batman comic. I remember being entranced by the art and the lettering. I recall being amazed at how -to me- the sound effects meshed with the story instead of drawing me out of it.
,Englehart Marshall,Terry Austin remains my favourite team Batman team of all time and Marshall and Terry's run on Doctor Strange was also outstanding.
My favorite depiction of Batman, in terms of art, is that drawn by Jim Aparo. I loved his Brave and Bold stuff in particular.
Englehart also wrote an early script for the first Batman movie.
I miss this era of Batman. More grounded than current stuff.
My favorite team was Denny O’Neil and Neal Adams. Great storytelling; Batman as the detective and the best Batman art ever.
The world needs more videos of people sharing stuff they really love like this. Cheered me right up!! Thanks 😄
I don't really read comics, but I greatly appreciate the impact they've had on media as a whole.
A great ONE ISSUE story is the Brave and the Bold set in 1950s Earth-Two where Batman marries Catwoman, with the Scarecrow slowly driving Bruce insane. I highly recommend tracking it down.
Brave and the Bold #197, if anyone looking for it..Written by Alan Brennert and pencils by Joe Staton, it's TRULY a classic and a must read for all Bat-fans everywhere!
I was fully ready to sit and argue that the Neal Adams/Denny O'Neil run was the best Batman, but as always, I watched the video with an open mind. And damn, man. You brought back some fantastic memories from my childhood. I was born in 76, and was reading comics from a very early age, and I remember so much of this. You are, indeed, correct. This was the best Batman. They really took the foundations of what Adams and O'Neil started and made it great. Awesome video, Steve!
Adams and O'Neil essentially invented the "modern" take on Batman which everything has been building on in some way ever since. To me, that makes them true titans in the history of the character.
@@user-do2ev2hr7hThey didn't start anything. They brought Batman back to his 1939 style, so the credits must go to Bill Finger for creating the character.
I have no one favourite creative team, but some of my favourite have been:
+ Jim Starlin and Jim Aparo,
+ Alan Grant and Norm Breyfogle,
+ Chuck Dixon and Graham Nolan,
+ Doug Moench and Kelley Jones
+ Ed Brubaker and Scott McDaniel,
+ Devin Grayson and Roger Robinson,
A huge part of the Engelhardt/Rogers run on Detective is the iconic profile of Batman that Rogers produced. It stands alongside Neal Adams, Jim Lee, and Norm Breyfogle as one of the most iconic versions of Batman. For me personally my all time favorite run has to be Alan Grant and Norm Breyfogle's run on Detective from the late eighties.
Grant Is a great writer
I agree about Neal Adams, not so much about the others
Alan Grant and Norm Breyfogle is an underrated creative team. They had great new villains such as Anarky and the Ventriloquist and used Tim Drake so well
Well done, Steve. One of the best comic book-related videos I've ever seen.
I love this era of Batman and Marshall Rogers is my favorite artist for the Darknight detective. The Joker Fish story also happens to be my favorite Batman story. However, over a decade later another creative team worked on Batman, namely Doug Moench and Kelly Jones. That run is my runner up to the Englehart and Rogers one. Both runs are very classic if a bit underrated. IMHO
HELL YEAH!!!!! This was the best comic book run on the character.
Englehart also gets an assist to Marv Wolfman for setting Dick Grayson up to be The Teen Titans clear leader. Rodgers also gets one for drawing him as a maturing young man, not a boy wonder.
The Englehart/Rogers' run was definitely my favorite as well. I also enjoyed the Moench/Gulacy team on the character, as well as Miller/Mazuchelli. Of course, the O'Neill/Adams run is a classic, but I have to include Frank Robbins, who was also such a brilliant writer (I love his art too, which may be an unpopular opinion here). A special mention has to be made to artist Jim Aparo, just for his sheer volume of incredible work on the character.
Batman’s yellow crest has been called a target, but Deadshot literally puts crosshairs on himself
Thats cause Deadshot has a genuine death wish
That's the trick, when you're looking down your own sights you're like "wait, which crosshairs do I focus on?"
I’m a huge fan of this Batman run as well. And that’s an amazing print behind you.
Such a short run, but so perfect. Wonderful stories and amazing art combined in perfect unison to weave such a compelling set of tales.
We would have to say Batman #251, 1973: "The Joker's Five-Way Revenge!" with Denny O’ Neil and Neal Adams is a good place to start for us. Very memorable and very influential!
One of my favorite Batman moments is the three-page scene that takes place at the very beginning of the Englehart-Rogers Penguin story. Rupert Throne's henchmen are disposing of Hugo Strange's body, dumping a barrel with his remains into Gotham Harbor...while above them and toward them swing the dynamic duo of Batman and Robin. This moment has what I call Batman's "Impossible Cape," which must be twenty feet wide or more; and it's so wide, Batman hides in the shadows and billows of his own cape while one henchman shoots a gun at him at point blank range. Marshall Rogers' artwork is what makes this a superb, surreal and noir-ish moment rather than something laughably silly and implausible. Batman is so confident in his abilities that we just take it for granted the henchman misses him completely in that panel where he shoots a gun...and indeed, Batman easily grabs the wrist of the thug, squeezing hard enough to cause him to drop the gun. However, at this point Batman is a wanted man because of Thorne's vendetta against him, and the thug taunts Batman with this. "Here come the police, and I'm ready to meet them with open arms! How about you, Batman?" Batman is stung by this, and he gives the thug a two-fisted mega-punch with a sound effect that takes up the entire panel - PLOW! This is one of my favorite Batman moments, for pretty much everything you state: it's spooky, noirish, full of wonderful shadowy artwork, and over the top and definitely removed from the real world...but grounded in reality just enough to still be believable.
I’m more of a Superman gal, but I actually really liked Grant Morrison’s Batman and Robin run with Dick taking over the cowl and not being fully sure about how to do it right, with Damian Wayne has his Robin.
Yeah I like their run too
My fave run of Batman to this day.
I like the dynamic of them being legally brothers and sharing a father. In many ways it opens up great chances for cool dynamics
My favorite run of all time!
The Deadshot and Laughing Fish stories are the first stories I ever read in any comic book. I think the rendition of the Joker in that comic is the definitive version.
That Clayface story, while not done by Steve is one of my very favorites. You really feel for him, and it informed his character for many years.
That panel of the Joker walking into the office with his laugh wrapping around him is one of the greatest panels in comics
My holy trinity of Batman artists:
Jim Aparo, Norm Breyfogle, and Marshall Rogers
And writers:
Steven Grant, Doug Moench, and Steve Engelhart
Not that there aren't other creators whose work I've loved when it comes to Batman, but these are the guys I gravitate to most often
How does Chuck Dixon not make the list?
Alan Davis is a great Batman artist too right along Breyfogle, Rogers and Aparo. I wish he had worked on Batman titles for a lot longer. Overall Norm Breyfogle is my favorite Batman artist. Once my Father and I met him at a comic book show one year, he was a great guy!
Yes, yes, yes! This short run was my favorite creative run ever!
A little personal history. I started reading comics in 1963. By 1977, the demands of higher education consumed all my time. However, Steve Engelhart and Marshall Roger's creative run brought me back in. The dynamic synergy of plotting and words, and artistic storytelling offered me something missing from my busy life.
Your awesome video was a great retrospective to a a thrilling creative team. Thank you 😊
"Strange Apparitions" is definitely one of the best story-lines from the 1970s, if not the character's entire history.
Batman’s comment about how he's super careful about his various affairs makes him sound like he's such a shut. So amusing.
Also, Silver looks like she'd make a much better match for Batman than Selina Kyle.
Well, you get to see both of them done weirdly in Gotham, lol.
My favorite creative team for Batman was Jim Starlin and Bernie Wrightson on Batman: The Cult. Such a fantastic story.
Terry Austin was always my favorite inker. Byrne and Austin was a fantastic team
These are great Batman history videos. Thank you Mr Shives
My favorite Batman writing group is from TAS. The combination of art style and solid storytelling was perfect, and Kevin Connroy (sp) will always be one of the best portrayals of Batman.
And it gave us Mark Hamill's Joker.
There's no doubt that Timm and company drew from this "definitive" run of Batman comics.
I'm very fond of Scott Snyder and Greg Capullo's New 52 run. Court of Owls was so good.
I discovered your channel about an hour ago via the O'Neil/Adams video and then moved on to this one. I started collecting comics as a kid in the '70s and these are the Batman stories that made me fall in love with the character, even though I was probably too young to get a lot of the nuance. I'm really enjoying your thorough take on these eras. Thanks for all the work I'm sure it took to make these videos.
Some of my favorite Batman stories were the Alan Grant/Norm Breyfogle run in the late 80's-early 90's. Great writing, villains, and Norm's artwork was awesome.
I loved their run and it ranks as one of the best in comics.
since it was first published in 1977 this has been my favorite run of batman. even during frank miller's dark knight era i still stood by it. i was greatly disappointed by the 2005 reunion.
So was I; even with the same "ingredients", the recipe was not the same. Not bad, but nowhere NEAR as good.
My favorite scene is the one where even Joker thinks Thorne is nuts!
Two more favorites, both from Detective: There Is No Hope in Crime Alley, and To Kill a Legend. Dick Giordano art on both.
After watching this video here "Steve Shives" I now have to get those Batman comic book issues that you were talking about here in this video. You explain things well Steve.
Greet summary. I have such fond memories of.this run and I love how the Silver St. Cloud relationship developed. It really was shocking, progressive and heartbreaking when she left him. Loved the bittersweetness of it all.
Really great break down of that era. Literally took me back to when I would get back from the local drugstore after buying my Batman comics, and reading them in a wood paneled den on a rainy Saturday afternoon…
"Execution is masterful" Can't get a better compliment than that.
More comics talk please! Loved this.
I friggin' love when Joker had wackadoodle plans like the Joker Fish where the plan was crazy, but he was deadly. Like, that plan could NEVER work for obvious reasons.... but he was still murdering people grotesquely to make it happen.
Along with Neal Adams and Jim Aparo, Marshall Rogers is undoubtedly one of the greatest Batman artists of not only the Bronze Age Of Comics (1970-86), but also of all time, bar none! Rogers' all-too-brief tenure with the Dark Knight laid the groundwork for Tim Burton's classic 1989 film! I have Rogers and Englehart's iconic and influential Detective Comics run downloaded on my Kindle! May Rogers, Adams, and Aparo all continue to rest in peace...they are all still missed!
Walter Simonson was- still is- one of my favorite comic artists. He probably drew my favorite Batman story. Okay, technically, it was a Manhunter story that Batman was added to so the could wrap the series up in a single issue.
But overall favorite creative team... O'Neil and Adams.
Awesome video, Man!! For me, the most outstanding creative team was Denny O’Neil and Neal Adams. The classic bronze reboot!!!
Has something gone wrong? Why does this have so few views! This is a great video!
I wish the captain America in the movies had the little wings sticking out if his hat.
Wow - got to agree. My favourite run in my 50 years of collecting Batman. The Deadshot and Penguin segments artworks are absolutely gorgeous.
Great video one of your best
Thanks for the video
Simply put, the Englehart/Rogers Batman is for me, THE Batman! I was in college in Savannah, Georgia in 1986 and was hungry for something new. Instead, I found the old TV shows on a local channel, and fell back in love with the character. Wanting some comics, the BEST I could get, I went to a local comics shop, run by a crusty old Vietnam vet (who has sadly passed) and asked what was the best Batman comics I could get...his answer, a reprinted set of the Englehart/Rogers comics called "Shadow of the Bat" which was all their run in 5 solid issues. I grabbed them all and read them, and was completely hooked! THIS was what I was looking for! I met Marshall in 1987 at DragonCon in Atlanta and he signed my Joker Fish issue, which remains one of my top favorite Batman items to date! Great video Steve! I appreciate the work you put into it! Thanks for caring and sharing!
Thanks Steve :} I've been in Issac Butterfield comments section most of the evening. You are balm to my troubled heart.
I'm so glad you caught that the englegart Joker laughing fish was a take on the 1st Joker story. I've always thought that.
Excellent video!
Another awesome video.
Nice overview and tribute, Steve. The Englehart/Rogers/Austin run is one of my top 3 Batman stories. Both Englehart's and Rogers' homage to the earlier Batman stories cannot be overstated. And not just them: even the lettering is a throwback to the 1939-1940 style scene in the earliest appearances of Batman and does not get enough credit. And the artwork? Notice how Rogers pays tribute to the greatest Batman artists up to that time. The Penguin issue in which Robin appears has tributes to Jerry Robinson; the Deadshot issue is a tribute to Dick Sprang, along with monstrous everyday items that Batman chases Deadshot through during the climax; the Laughing Fish part 1 is a tribute to Neal Adams, while part 2 is a tribute to Bob Kane (or whoever ghosted Kane in the early years), as evidenced by how the Joker is rendered in those 2 issues.
the page of batman deep in thought as he swings through gotham reminds me so much of what I love in the spider-man comics of that era. all that time spent establishing the protagonist’s perspective goes so far in endearing the audience to their story-it’s a shame modern comics are afraid to use that many thought balloons!
When I was about six years old my dad bought me some reprints of golden age Superman and Batman stories for Christmas and we'd read them into a tape recorder like they were a radio play, him taking the bad guy parts and my brother and I taking the heroes. So when I saw Hugo Strange, a villain "I" had tackled before, showing up in the new Batman comics at the drug store I had to have them. This retrospective brings up some fond memories. Thanks!
One of the best Batman runs ever - if not THE best. Marshall Rogers was able to take what Neal Adams did and raise it up a notch - which no fans at the time thought was possible. I still remember buying all those Detective issues off the stand - and how disappointed I was when the run ended. RIP Marshall.
as a long time comics fan I can say - this is the correct take on Batman and the version I would like to see on film.
Wow. This so clearly influenced Arkham City and it's turn with Corey Burton as Hugo Strange, and the vast majority of subsequent Hugo Strange stories. The opening shot of City with Strange staring down Bruce is almost straight out of 6:28.
I do wonder if Strange thrusting his insanity onto Thorne influenced what ultimately happens to Falcone in The Dark Knight Trilogy, where he goes permanently insane and his empire is left without a figurehead due to Scarecrow's fear gas. It's actually not as clear of a metaphor in the film as here, and possible it was a complete coincidence, but something to think about.
Hard to argue, it was a great run. Top notch.
Dr. Phosphorous and Blight: basically the same dude.
I like quite a bit of golden age Batman, so I really love how Englehart and Rogers also pay homage to that and reuse elements. Their use of the Joker is a great example
A VERY good video that is well
made and informative.
This is an awesome video👏🏻💯🙂.
@Steve Shives, thanks for the recommendation. Just purchased a copy online.
I am a customizer of action figures I’ve been wanting to do a Batman for quite some time but you’re right this is by far the best Batman ever thank you for sharing this is inspiring me to make a custom of this style of Batman
This time period of comics is why I became a DIehard DC fan as a teen. That and the Green Lantern/Green Arrow series.
Funny. My daughter has my copy of this particular issue of Detective Comics. This iteration of Bat-Man is still my favorite to this day.
One of the best Batman experience described in such a fun manner, I have to go reread these issues as it’s been awhile, I remember after year one those batman issues ten nights ofthe beast and death in the family, Jim apro, starlin we’re my youth
Don't know if it's already been stated, but the contributions made by Ben Oda (RIP) and John Workman with their lettering on this run needs to be acknowledged.
These are helpful.
I am right there with you, Bro!
That was definitely a great Batman run. I need to go back and reread it. I also really loved the Norm Breyfogle run when it was coming out, but I do not know how well it holds up today.
I loved this issue !
Also, Silver was one of my favorite love interests :)
I remember this run so vividly (although I thought, mistakenly, that this TEAM started uninterrupted with issue 468 with The Calculator) and I have been saying that this was the definitive Batman run, and that this version’s Hugo Strange is the supreme Bat villain (and also an “inspiration” for Marvel’s Superior Spider-Man series). I hope the future Matt Reeves Batman movies tap into the Englehart/Rogers/Austin run as source material.
Excellent analysis. I agree that this is the best regular-issue run of Batman. Nice to see that it is still recognized as such, all these years later. Most of the better elements in the (flawed and uneven) 1989 Batman film are directly mined from this run, both visually and plot/character-wise.
You're not kidding about being brief. I remember reading an article in the Comics Journal about what Englehart/Rogers was doing with Detective Comics back in the late '70s. At the time, I was not reading Batman or Detective Comics, but decided to check out the title. Picked up the latest issue and WTF? No Englehart/Rogers. The run was gone already.
Nicely thought out and discussed. Personally my favourite Batman is from the White Knight series. I love series like this that stand alone in their own timeline and are able to do things with the characters and story that just can't be done in a main line book. The art is incredible, the story is great and it is my new favourite Bat-Story :D
Absorbing and Highly Detailed Exploration of Gotham Culture🦇🌆
This is one of my favorite runs on Batman too
I think I’ve learned to enjoy Batman and characters like him much deeper once I let go of thinking about him as having a platonic ideal that I measure all other versions by how closely they resemble and understand it and instead tried to appreciate how each different take can work in its own way. For me the animated series will always be quintessential Batman but I also love the very explicitly kind hearted and more balanced emotionally versions such as Adam West or the darker more conflicted versions in something like the white night series which probably has my favorite art in the comics. This view is even stronger for joker, if someone can make a version of joker I’ve never seen before I get super excited, whether that’s making him some kind of cryptid or Rastafarian, just give me every variation you can have for someone so iconic.
Dark Detective is a great trade; one worth reading.
Some of the most talented artists and writers in the history of the medium have worked on the character. And also Bob Kane.