Thanks, Mariah I started to listen to your video about sub-text on my phone. The result was by switching to my notes then back to your video etc., I generated about 3 to 5 great pages of my novel. And enjoyed every minute. Thanks, Mariah. Mike.
Since I’m a UA-camr myself, I know you get excited about comments on newly posted videos. So here I am! I’ll let know my thoughts on this video. The topic is perfect for me too
Just throwing this out there, because no one ever discusses it-it's feasible to bypass the inciting incident and start in medias res, subsequently integrating the inciting incident through backstory and flashbacks. Examples: The Odyssey by Homer: This ancient epic is a classic example of a story that begins in the midst of action. The tale of Odysseus’ journey home from the Trojan War starts with his son Telemachus, and the backstory unfolds as the narrative progresses. American Gods by Neil Gaiman: This novel opens with the protagonist, Shadow, in the middle of a personal crisis and then uses flashbacks to reveal the events that led to this point. Life of Pi by Yann Martel: The story starts with the main character, Pi, adrift at sea, and the earlier events of his life are revealed through his recollections.
Reading (for the hundredth time) The Essence of the Thing by Madeleine StJohn. Even though it's novella length and about something as everyday and normal as a break up, I am drawn to it again and again, and now I realise it's because of the incredible subtext. I've also been listening to the short stories of Somerset Maugham. I love how he simply comes out and describes characters and motivations. Info dumping is another of those 'rando rules' that new writers are supposed to get around, but Somerset Maugham just lets you have it, and I find it refreshing and often hilarious.
You know I don't think I've read any Somerset Maugham? Interest officially piqued! And the book by Madeleine St John seems right up my alley. (By the way, I've just gone and read her Wikipedia page-- I think you'll appreciate what is written in paragraph two under "Writing Career"-- it seems she was very serious about her subtext lol)
Thank you for addressing my question! Amazing advice as always! Glad you enjoyed horrostör! House of leaves is a GAUNTLET of a book but it sure is something
Thank you, I'm so glad you liked it! One day I hope to do one specifically for mysteries but it may take me a while to prepare. Also, just to answer your question about relationships. (I think it was how to create tension while also establishing character relationships? Something like that?) I think the trick is to find a way to introduce your characters within the framework of your story's conflict. If we take Horrorstor as an example, you'll notice that the information we get about Amy and her coworkers is basically limited to their feelings towards Orsk, which also colors their interactions, doesn't it? Think about Basil, a true believer in the company, versus Amy who is less convinced. So maybe if you apply a similar laser-like focus to your own characters and how they relate to your story's central conflict, you will find some solutions!
I'm reading Bram Stoker's Dracula, just finished Bret Easton Ellis's American Psycho. I've read both multiple times before. I'm also reading Foundation and Empire (well, reading this one with someone) - again, a re-read. Nothing new at the moment, but I plan to read Ringworld after Dracula, which will be mostly new.
Hi Jake, I stayed in the hotel, "The Corona du Ore," in Bistritsa, Transylvania, while working in Romania. That hotel is where JohnathanHarker, the hero of the book, stayed the night before he met Dracula. I was also fortunate to meet one of the two Counts of the Dracula Society there and tour Dracula Castle in nearby "Piazza Fontinelli." Great place, lovely people. Mike Gilmore.
I just finished reading the silo trilogy, Wool, Shift, Dust, by Hugh Howie. It (they) was (were) excellent. And I’m in the middle of incorporating beta feedback on my debut before sending it off to a dev editor in October. Glad I found your channel. All the best :)
@@eternalenglishmajor I’ve been ruminating over your reply for a couple of weeks and thought I’d respond. Firstly, thanks :) but at the same time, am I excited, no. I’m terrified. My book may be absolute garbage haha Never having submitted to an editor before, I have no idea what to expect. My hope is that he marks up all of the pages in red and I can salvage this by making the suggested changes. But my biggest fear is the editor saying “You really need to work on your craft. This is unpublishable.” That would be a teensy bit devastating and mean that my instincts for story are incorrect. We shall see. :)
Perfect! I was just reworking my first scene yesterday - great timing! Can't wait for the "too late" video coming up! Question for you - at what points should you have someone read your work? Colleagues, beta readers, etc - who should read and when, and how can I find these readers? I'm concerned about waiting until I've completed the whole story before getting a second pair of eyes on it. Thoughts? Thanks!!
Great question! How soon you ask for feedback is strictly a personal choice. And where to find it can be tricky! If you don't have anyone suitable in mind you can take to Reddit and perhaps find someone to do an exchange with. You can also hire a beta reader through an online service. Unfortunately I don't have any experience with either of these options to guide you further. But whatever you decide, just make sure that whoever you ask appreciates your genre! Good luck!
I'd love to know what you think about serial fiction, like the kinds of potentially endless web novels on Royal Road. It's my favorite genre, but it has an unusual format which encourages writers to just *keep writing* as the monetization and visibility is based more on regularly uploading new chapters (sort of like how UA-cam encourages regularly uploading new content). There's really no incentive for a serial web novel to ever end, and lots of reasons to keep it going as long as people are willing to keep reading it, with the result that some of them are literally millions of words long at this point and still going. But this implies a different kind of structure than we're used to in novels - serial fiction has to simultaneously feel like a story with a structure, *and* remain sufficiently open-ended that it can be extended indefinitely. You probably have insights into how that could be achieved! (If I had to guess, it probably involves breaking the story up into arcs each dedicated to a different "stupid thing", perhaps.)
I didn't know this was a thing-- how interesting! And yes, I think breaking up the story would give you the best results. It's what soap operas do and some of them have been around for decades! They'd actually be worth studying, in your case. You'll find some solutions there for sure!
Sent you a request an hour or so ago. Should have watched this and the one on the basic story structure crossing genres first. So much I need to know was already answered in these two. But, unless I haven't watched a different video that covers it, I still would like your thoughts on my original request. It involves continuing to build and regenerating suspense for the reader reading a noir mystery detective story that connects two infamous, factual unsolved murders that occurred 15 years apart and seem to have zero connection to each other. And as I said earlier, the characters are fictional as the mystery action plays out. If it would be good for the topic of a new video, great! I now know that the villainous entity, seemingly shrewd, does stupid things that will inevitably lead to the major plot twist conclusion.
I believe it is Musil's The Man without Qualities' first paragraph is a very meteorological description of the weather. Simply magnificent book. I wonder why the characters you talk about are always doing something stupid? good video.
In general tip 3 is correct. But the "don't start with" tips are meant for beginning writers who start with cliches because they are easy and obvious, not because they have a strong story reason to do so. If you've read dozens of boring, cliched beginnings, your eyes would roll too. These "don't start with" tips often come from editors or agents who read lots of stories and have seen the pattern.
Oh they're the culprits, are they? 😂 Makes me wonder what they used to complain about before alarm clocks were a thing. Might make an interesting research topic, actually 🙃
@kit888 I've seen Joe Abercrombie make climbing stairs one of the most interesting thing I have ever read. I don't think the issue is what you write about, I think it's more a matter of how you write about it. As for inexperienced writers writing cliche things in uninteresting ways, I also think they should be allowed to learn from these drafts and every other effort they will incrementally grow from.
Mariah, your videos have been very helpful. A question though, if you have a fantasy story with 5 points of view (Third person limited). Would only the main POV have the “stupid thing,” they’re trying to do or all pov characters? Does it just depend on their specific role or importance in the story? Medieval fantasy setting. Thank you 😊
That was a lot of great advice, especially the part about grounding the story. I have found myself going back to reread an earlier chapter to see if I had missed something foundational like what year is it, where are we, who is this person? it really takes the wind out of my sails as a reader. I couldn't really apply the advice about my main character being a moron or my antagonist being a moron. Both of mine are pretty smart. :) My protagonist still fails, she's no Mary Sue, but she is no moron.
@@elementeight8 I never said she was telling me to make my character a moron. Where did you get that interpretation? This line just didn't relate to me: @2:20 "If you deviate from telling the story of your character's stupidity, that's when things start falling apart." The advice just doesn't apply to my book, and I thought she would like to know. This was after I complimented her. Constructive criticism is a blessing.
@@elementeight8 Yes, that is what I said. And then you misconstrued it as if I thought she was telling me to make my character a moron. Her phrasing assumes that your character already is. Mine is not, therefore the advice doesn't apply. Had I said "I couldn’t really apply the advice about MAKING my main character a moron.” your criticism would make more sense.
Mariah, from a writer of fairy tale re-tellings: your teaching is very helpful and motivating!
Thank you! I'm so glad it's helping! And re-tellings are so much fun-- good luck with them!
Thanks, Mariah
I started to listen to your video about sub-text on my phone. The result was by switching to my notes then back to your video etc., I generated about 3 to 5 great pages of my novel.
And enjoyed every minute.
Thanks, Mariah.
Mike.
Learned a lot from this vid, thanks so much!
Glad it was helpful!
I plot and pants in between. I learnt screenwriting and that gave me a fantastic view of how to construct the story. Great video and great advice
Thank you! Glad you liked it!
Since I’m a UA-camr myself, I know you get excited about comments on newly posted videos. So here I am! I’ll let know my thoughts on this video. The topic is perfect for me too
Aw, that's so kind! How's the story going?
As a new writer, I really appreciate your videos!
I'm so glad they're working for you! Happy writing! 😊
this is one of the best writing channels on youtube!!!
Thank you! I'm so glad you like it!
Just throwing this out there, because no one ever discusses it-it's feasible to bypass the inciting incident and start in medias res, subsequently integrating the inciting incident through backstory and flashbacks. Examples: The Odyssey by Homer: This ancient epic is a classic example of a story that begins in the midst of action. The tale of Odysseus’ journey home from the Trojan War starts with his son Telemachus, and the backstory unfolds as the narrative progresses. American Gods by Neil Gaiman: This novel opens with the protagonist, Shadow, in the middle of a personal crisis and then uses flashbacks to reveal the events that led to this point.
Life of Pi by Yann Martel: The story starts with the main character, Pi, adrift at sea, and the earlier events of his life are revealed through his recollections.
Yes! Short story writers often do this. I call it the Paula Abdul. Two steps forward, two steps back... 🙃
Such a great teacher!!!
What a sweet thing to say, and so encouraging. Thank you 🙃
Reading (for the hundredth time) The Essence of the Thing by Madeleine StJohn. Even though it's novella length and about something as everyday and normal as a break up, I am drawn to it again and again, and now I realise it's because of the incredible subtext.
I've also been listening to the short stories of Somerset Maugham. I love how he simply comes out and describes characters and motivations. Info dumping is another of those 'rando rules' that new writers are supposed to get around, but Somerset Maugham just lets you have it, and I find it refreshing and often hilarious.
You know I don't think I've read any Somerset Maugham? Interest officially piqued! And the book by Madeleine St John seems right up my alley. (By the way, I've just gone and read her Wikipedia page-- I think you'll appreciate what is written in paragraph two under "Writing Career"-- it seems she was very serious about her subtext lol)
Viewing a new Mariah video! I’m honored
Very informative. You should look for author Stacy James Meadows. Anyway great video with interesting insights. ❤
Thank you for addressing my question! Amazing advice as always!
Glad you enjoyed horrostör! House of leaves is a GAUNTLET of a book but it sure is something
Thank you, I'm so glad you liked it! One day I hope to do one specifically for mysteries but it may take me a while to prepare. Also, just to answer your question about relationships. (I think it was how to create tension while also establishing character relationships? Something like that?) I think the trick is to find a way to introduce your characters within the framework of your story's conflict. If we take Horrorstor as an example, you'll notice that the information we get about Amy and her coworkers is basically limited to their feelings towards Orsk, which also colors their interactions, doesn't it? Think about Basil, a true believer in the company, versus Amy who is less convinced. So maybe if you apply a similar laser-like focus to your own characters and how they relate to your story's central conflict, you will find some solutions!
I'm reading Bram Stoker's Dracula, just finished Bret Easton Ellis's American Psycho. I've read both multiple times before. I'm also reading Foundation and Empire (well, reading this one with someone) - again, a re-read. Nothing new at the moment, but I plan to read Ringworld after Dracula, which will be mostly new.
Oh what an interesting mix! What do you write?
Hi Jake,
I stayed in the hotel, "The Corona du Ore," in Bistritsa, Transylvania, while working in Romania. That hotel is where JohnathanHarker, the hero of the book, stayed the night before he met Dracula.
I was also fortunate to meet one of the two Counts of the Dracula Society there and tour Dracula Castle in nearby "Piazza Fontinelli."
Great place, lovely people.
Mike Gilmore.
“Have we not destroyed enough of the natural world in real life?”
I felt this. 💚🌱💚
I just finished reading the silo trilogy, Wool, Shift, Dust, by Hugh Howie. It (they) was (were) excellent. And I’m in the middle of incorporating beta feedback on my debut before sending it off to a dev editor in October. Glad I found your channel. All the best :)
You must be excited! Good luck with it! 🍀
@@eternalenglishmajor I’ve been ruminating over your reply for a couple of weeks and thought I’d respond. Firstly, thanks :) but at the same time, am I excited, no. I’m terrified. My book may be absolute garbage haha Never having submitted to an editor before, I have no idea what to expect. My hope is that he marks up all of the pages in red and I can salvage this by making the suggested changes. But my biggest fear is the editor saying “You really need to work on your craft. This is unpublishable.” That would be a teensy bit devastating and mean that my instincts for story are incorrect. We shall see. :)
Perfect! I was just reworking my first scene yesterday - great timing! Can't wait for the "too late" video coming up! Question for you - at what points should you have someone read your work? Colleagues, beta readers, etc - who should read and when, and how can I find these readers? I'm concerned about waiting until I've completed the whole story before getting a second pair of eyes on it. Thoughts? Thanks!!
Great question! How soon you ask for feedback is strictly a personal choice. And where to find it can be tricky! If you don't have anyone suitable in mind you can take to Reddit and perhaps find someone to do an exchange with. You can also hire a beta reader through an online service. Unfortunately I don't have any experience with either of these options to guide you further. But whatever you decide, just make sure that whoever you ask appreciates your genre! Good luck!
Quality advice and excellent delivery. Thank you very much.
I'd love to know what you think about serial fiction, like the kinds of potentially endless web novels on Royal Road. It's my favorite genre, but it has an unusual format which encourages writers to just *keep writing* as the monetization and visibility is based more on regularly uploading new chapters (sort of like how UA-cam encourages regularly uploading new content). There's really no incentive for a serial web novel to ever end, and lots of reasons to keep it going as long as people are willing to keep reading it, with the result that some of them are literally millions of words long at this point and still going.
But this implies a different kind of structure than we're used to in novels - serial fiction has to simultaneously feel like a story with a structure, *and* remain sufficiently open-ended that it can be extended indefinitely. You probably have insights into how that could be achieved! (If I had to guess, it probably involves breaking the story up into arcs each dedicated to a different "stupid thing", perhaps.)
I didn't know this was a thing-- how interesting! And yes, I think breaking up the story would give you the best results. It's what soap operas do and some of them have been around for decades! They'd actually be worth studying, in your case. You'll find some solutions there for sure!
Sent you a request an hour or so ago. Should have watched this and the one on the basic story structure crossing genres first. So much I need to know was already answered in these two.
But, unless I haven't watched a different video that covers it, I still would like your thoughts on my original request. It involves continuing to build and regenerating suspense for the reader reading a noir mystery detective story that connects two infamous, factual unsolved murders that occurred 15 years apart and seem to have zero connection to each other. And as I said earlier, the characters are fictional as the mystery action plays out.
If it would be good for the topic of a new video, great!
I now know that the villainous entity, seemingly shrewd, does stupid things that will inevitably lead to the major plot twist conclusion.
I believe it is Musil's The Man without Qualities' first paragraph is a very meteorological description of the weather. Simply magnificent book. I wonder why the characters you talk about are always doing something stupid? good video.
In general tip 3 is correct. But the "don't start with" tips are meant for beginning writers who start with cliches because they are easy and obvious, not because they have a strong story reason to do so. If you've read dozens of boring, cliched beginnings, your eyes would roll too. These "don't start with" tips often come from editors or agents who read lots of stories and have seen the pattern.
Oh they're the culprits, are they? 😂 Makes me wonder what they used to complain about before alarm clocks were a thing. Might make an interesting research topic, actually 🙃
@kit888 I've seen Joe Abercrombie make climbing stairs one of the most interesting thing I have ever read. I don't think the issue is what you write about, I think it's more a matter of how you write about it.
As for inexperienced writers writing cliche things in uninteresting ways, I also think they should be allowed to learn from these drafts and every other effort they will incrementally grow from.
Please let us know if you enjoyed House of Leaves.
Will do!
Mariah, your videos have been very helpful.
A question though, if you have a fantasy story with 5 points of view (Third person limited). Would only the main POV have the “stupid thing,” they’re trying to do or all pov characters? Does it just depend on their specific role or importance in the story?
Medieval fantasy setting.
Thank you 😊
That was a lot of great advice, especially the part about grounding the story. I have found myself going back to reread an earlier chapter to see if I had missed something foundational like what year is it, where are we, who is this person? it really takes the wind out of my sails as a reader.
I couldn't really apply the advice about my main character being a moron or my antagonist being a moron. Both of mine are pretty smart. :) My protagonist still fails, she's no Mary Sue, but she is no moron.
Thank you, glad you liked it! And of course our characters can be smart! Just not perfectly so.
Surely you understand she means conflict. No one is saying to make your character a “moron”. SMFH.
@@elementeight8 I never said she was telling me to make my character a moron. Where did you get that interpretation? This line just didn't relate to me: @2:20 "If you deviate from telling the story of your character's stupidity, that's when things start falling apart." The advice just doesn't apply to my book, and I thought she would like to know. This was after I complimented her. Constructive criticism is a blessing.
“I couldn’t really apply the advice about my main character being a moron.”
@@elementeight8 Yes, that is what I said. And then you misconstrued it as if I thought she was telling me to make my character a moron. Her phrasing assumes that your character already is. Mine is not, therefore the advice doesn't apply.
Had I said "I couldn’t really apply the advice about MAKING my main character a moron.” your criticism would make more sense.
Once upon a time there was a thing called tension, but then it went to Hollywood...
Tip: Don't write to impress other writers.