Interesting interview. Valentin Tomberg and MOT have been life transforming for me. He is such a man of pure thinking that it’s impossible not to be drawn deeper into Catholicism.
I'm currently reading "The Rose of the World" AND "Meditations on the Tarot" and I have two volumes of "Jesus the Imagination" (which I've read) near my bedside AND I recently had Anne Catharine Emmerich's writings emailed to me by a friend, AND I had the honor to meet Therese Schroeder-Sheker when I lived in Denver AND I've read several of Robert's other books, AND I've refused to be injected with their poison shots. So, it's pretty obvious that I have to subscribe to this channel! A pleasure to make your acquaintances!
Great episode...one small opportunity for improvement...Mike Sauter's audio is starkly louder than Robert and Michael's...maybe Mike can dial back his output level or use some type of audio compression that would normalize all the audio levels
@@regenerationmikesauterandm7748 You both are bringing engaging new content...people who connect do not have the sitcom timestamp on how long content should be...Joe Rogan's norm for a podcast is around 3 hours...have liberty and discuss and pay no mind to what duration something "should" be....the reality is...if both of you are still engaged...so is your audience...and I could have listened for many more hours with Robert Powell...keep doing what you are doing and thank you!!
This is a fascinating session. A couple of notes on traditional astrology (which is what Tomberg would have used). Only the 7 visible planets--including Sun and Moon-- are used. Hence, Tomberg speaks of the 8th planet (hope). The reason for this isn't just because the latter ones (Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto) would only be discovered later. It is indeed because they are visible to the naked eye that these are the planets that matter. The so-called transpersonal planets ( Uranus, Neptune and Pluto) have a strange history. First of all, they were named by astronomers who had no regard for astrological principles. Second of all, the qualities ascribed to them have often been derived from the Greek gods they are named after. It strikes me as weird that modern astrologers would call Pluto, the higher octave of Mars. Why would Mars need a higher octave? Another point is that this notion that the Sun reflects the personality is another novel idea that came into being with Alan Leo and has persisted today in modern astrology. Actually according to astrologers from the Hellenistic Age up until the time of Alan Leo in the early 20th century, it was the rising sign on the ascendant and the planet ruling that sign that showed personality. A third point. The conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn in the time of Christ would have had a different character from the one we have just witnessed. The conjunction of the two planets in Christ's times took place in Pisces. Jupiter rules Pisces and so would have been the dominant factor in that conjunction. Schematically speaking, Jupiter is considered more positive, bringing fertility and warmth, as opposed to Saturn which is a planet of death, darkness and infertility. On the other hand, the conjunction in 2020 took place in Capricorn which Saturn rules. Furthermore, it took place in the bound (limit or term) of Mars, further lending it a malefic tone.
Look, Robert Powell is obviously an intelligent and thoughtful man, however, I have to raise this point. I am willing to retract it, because maybe it is no more than an impression. So, I will quote Berdyaev from his autobiography: "I am most of all familiar with Steiner's anthroposophy. Unfortunately, despite the promising label, man is, in fact, not to be found in Steiner's system; he is completely dissolved somewhere between or within 'cosmic dimensions' (Dream and Reality", pp 191)." This is my IMPRESSION of Robert Powell and his entourage at the Sophia Foundation (but it is NOT my impression of Tomberg). I have read a few of things by people around the Sophia Foundation, such as what amounts to a hagiography of Tomberg, "The Circle of Twelve". It seems like humans are hand puppets of these great cosmic forces, according to this scheme. I couldn't help but think of this as I heard Powell talk about the Ahrimanic forces behind the vaccine. I am sorry but that sounds like a conspiracy theory on a cosmic level. Now I look forward to future interviews with Powell. I am not being critical for the sake of it, but it's a real concern that I have. I would be happy to have someone change my mind on this.
Thank you, Thomas. I have the same split feeling: real admiration for Powell's erudition and deep gratitude for his beautiful translation of MOT and awe for Steiner's visionary powers, but when you boil down some of Steiner and Powell's big pictures it sounds something like a Marvel Comic Book plot. Tomberg, on the other hand, doesn't claim to have the whole map of reincarnated evil and good characters- he unveils the mystery of what grace, the fall, redemption might be about and our mysterious agency, and also helplessness, within it. Tomberg also goes to length to write in MOT that any human accessing the Akashic records, as did Steiner and Blavatsky, however great his or her vision may be, will still be able to view only a microscopic part of it. Claims to understanding the cosmic plan worry me, too, especially when they sound so much like human dynamics writ large. Also with you, Thomas, in that this is not criticizing just for the sake of sounding smart, but honestly wanting to keep things in perspective and hold to the truth. The trouble with the Belt of Mirages, as Tomberg would say, is that the mirages look so convincingly like openings to the truth when they are really detours or dead ends. I need to look up how Tomberg recommends distinguishing the two: I think the mirage is more pleasurable and makes the ego happy while the truth is hard for the ego and often just out of grasp. But, one person's dead end may be somebody else's entry point ... none of this easy. I can only stay with the combined gnosis of experience, revelation, reason and comparing traditional lines of wisdom. My mix of study and intuition says that too-clear assignation of evil to one's identified enemies is suspiciously easy. I think it's wiser to stay in my cloud of unknowing. Still, deep thanks and appreciation to all, the hosts, Robert Powell and you, Thomas.
@@janetmartha Thank you for your profound observations. As for the mirages you speak of, I have my personal barometers. If I start feeling like I am floating above the Earth, that's a sign that I am following a mirage. I must say that I get that feeling when I hear talk that emphasizes "Ahriman", "light beings", etc., at the expense of human agency. I think you are pointing to a similar notion when you say, "the mirage is more pleasurable." Better to stay, as you say, in the Cloud of Unknowing. In fact, one of the big lessons that Tomberg teaches is humility. Another indicator of mirages for me is who take themselves too seriously. I have found that it is usually a sign that they have found, "THE TRUTH" and this echoes what you are saying about how even great visionaries are only able to view a microscopic portion of the truth. There is a poem by Tomas Transtromer that I like, "The Half Finished Heaven". That title says a lot! Anyway, would like to talk more about this with you. If you ever feel inclined, email me at: entheogens(at)yahoo.com
I really appreciate you both touching on these issues because I have been deeply touched by Tomberg’s work but I am suspicious of what comes across to me within esotericism as conspiracy theories or fundamentalism. Tomberg deftly threads this needle so that people maintain their freedom. And to treat something like vaccines in such broad strokes is dangerous because it can cause people to suspend their own judgement and discernment. People can have the same values but make different decisions because the “good” is often context-specific. And what we should be cultivating is the ability to respond morally based on the circumstances we’re actually in versus a projected scenario that feeds into our own biases.
@@mjluvsjc You are so right to point out that it can "cause people to suspend their own judgement and discernment." It is one thing if we want to debate the pros and cons of the vaccine and the protocols for dealing with Covid, and it is quite another if we want to bring out the bogey man of the devil and accuse those who think differently than we do of being partisans of the devil (or Ahriman, as the case may be). I can see no reason to believe that the Pope was not acting in good faith. I am sure that he consulted medical experts within the Vatican and outside of it in making his decision. People are free to disagree with his decisions, however to suggest that the Pope was somehow either in cahoots with Ahriman or that he was being unwittingly guided by Ahriman goes beyond simple disagreement and into the realm of paranoia.
13:45 - Powell’s background with Meditations on the Tarot 31:16 - Negative backlash towards Tomberg from Anthroposophists 38:42 - According to Tomberg and astrology, where are we and where should we go from here | 39:37 - Zodiacal Ages in Powell’s thesis work | 43:49 - sidereal astrology vs tropical \ 47:13 - birth of Abraham age of Aries (going from the ram to the lamb) 50:20 - Astrology and World Events today | 53:55 - Conjunctions of Jupiter and Saturn in Pisces and birth of Christ 55:02 - Anne Catherine Emmerich 1:02:31 - Events in life of Christ and Stars alignment 1:06:25 - tropical vs sidereal 1:13:08 - what is going on in the world now | 1:16:02 - Lucifer (false light, good thief) and Ahriman (power, bad thief) | 1:20:01 - Steiner prophesied the vaccines in 1917 | 1:22:15 - Daniil Andreyev. the red rose with white rose (sophia) 1:34:44 - Shambala
Thanks for your interest. My beliefs are all over the hundreds of hours of podcasts and writings at Front Porch Republic. I'd also be open to Zooming at some point.. Again, thanks for listening
The story of the zodiac is a mystical and historical mystery for me. the more I learn about it an its antiquity, more so it's centrality within ancient religions, the more I am convinced it is part of an ancient vision, a proto-evangelion of Christ. I'm looking forward to learning more from this guest. 'The Wisdom of the Stars' outlined a stunning Christocentric narrative of the zodiac, albeit too neatly, but unavoidably obvious when we change our starting point on the circle. My suspicion is that it originates out of the schools of Enoch, before the flood, whatever those were, because it is from them that the order of Melchizedek propagates them into antiquity.
Psychic readings, tarot cards, mediums, would really like to know is it ok to have a tarot card reading?? Is it ok to go to a psychic for a reading? Or is it against the Bible, against the Father Almighty??
It's really not my jam, and a lot of people bring a heavy, fatalistic approach to such things, which I think is dark. But a lot of people bring a heavy, fatalistic approach to everything, including the Bible, the Father Almighty and Faith. And that's not my jam either..
Interesting interview. Valentin Tomberg and MOT have been life transforming for me. He is such a man of pure thinking that it’s impossible not to be drawn deeper into Catholicism.
As a Catholic with perennialist leanings this has really piqued my interest in Meditations on the Tarot, thanks.
I'm going to have to read Valentin Tomberg after hearing this. Robert Powell appears to be a beautiful man. Thanks.
Tomberg is necessary.
The rosary is a secret weapon indeed. I don't let being Anglican get in the way of me praying it (in Latin) daily.
My secret weapon is reciting the Holy Name in the hesychast prayer of the heart (in Latin).
I'm currently reading "The Rose of the World" AND "Meditations on the Tarot" and I have two volumes of "Jesus the Imagination" (which I've read) near my bedside AND I recently had Anne Catharine Emmerich's writings emailed to me by a friend, AND I had the honor to meet Therese Schroeder-Sheker when I lived in Denver AND I've read several of Robert's other books, AND I've refused to be injected with their poison shots. So, it's pretty obvious that I have to subscribe to this channel! A pleasure to make your acquaintances!
Yeah, I'd say that you did pretty well studyjng for the entrance exam. Welcome!
Great episode...one small opportunity for improvement...Mike Sauter's audio is starkly louder than Robert and Michael's...maybe Mike can dial back his output level or use some type of audio compression that would normalize all the audio levels
Thanks for that input. There is a 'loudness normalization' feature I can apply but overlooked.
@@regenerationmikesauterandm7748 You both are bringing engaging new content...people who connect do not have the sitcom timestamp on how long content should be...Joe Rogan's norm for a podcast is around 3 hours...have liberty and discuss and pay no mind to what duration something "should" be....the reality is...if both of you are still engaged...so is your audience...and I could have listened for many more hours with Robert Powell...keep doing what you are doing and thank you!!
the easiest way for me to deal with it was to just mute you when you spoke @@regenerationmikesauterandm7748
Wow! Thank you for this video! I found it fascinating and informative.
Listening with fascination. I would love to hear Powell talk about the sacraments and the Sophia Grail Circle.
This is a fascinating session. A couple of notes on traditional astrology (which is what Tomberg would have used). Only the 7 visible planets--including Sun and Moon-- are used. Hence, Tomberg speaks of the 8th planet (hope). The reason for this isn't just because the latter ones (Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto) would only be discovered later. It is indeed because they are visible to the naked eye that these are the planets that matter. The so-called transpersonal planets ( Uranus, Neptune and Pluto) have a strange history. First of all, they were named by astronomers who had no regard for astrological principles. Second of all, the qualities ascribed to them have often been derived from the Greek gods they are named after. It strikes me as weird that modern astrologers would call Pluto, the higher octave of Mars. Why would Mars need a higher octave? Another point is that this notion that the Sun reflects the personality is another novel idea that came into being with Alan Leo and has persisted today in modern astrology. Actually according to astrologers from the Hellenistic Age up until the time of Alan Leo in the early 20th century, it was the rising sign on the ascendant and the planet ruling that sign that showed personality. A third point. The conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn in the time of Christ would have had a different character from the one we have just witnessed. The conjunction of the two planets in Christ's times took place in Pisces. Jupiter rules Pisces and so would have been the dominant factor in that conjunction. Schematically speaking, Jupiter is considered more positive, bringing fertility and warmth, as opposed to Saturn which is a planet of death, darkness and infertility. On the other hand, the conjunction in 2020 took place in Capricorn which Saturn rules. Furthermore, it took place in the bound (limit or term) of Mars, further lending it a malefic tone.
Look, Robert Powell is obviously an intelligent and thoughtful man, however, I have to raise this point. I am willing to retract it, because maybe it is no more than an impression. So, I will quote Berdyaev from his autobiography: "I am most of all familiar with Steiner's anthroposophy. Unfortunately, despite the promising label, man is, in fact, not to be found in Steiner's system; he is completely dissolved somewhere between or within 'cosmic dimensions' (Dream and Reality", pp 191)." This is my IMPRESSION of Robert Powell and his entourage at the Sophia Foundation (but it is NOT my impression of Tomberg). I have read a few of things by people around the Sophia Foundation, such as what amounts to a hagiography of Tomberg, "The Circle of Twelve". It seems like humans are hand puppets of these great cosmic forces, according to this scheme. I couldn't help but think of this as I heard Powell talk about the Ahrimanic forces behind the vaccine. I am sorry but that sounds like a conspiracy theory on a cosmic level. Now I look forward to future interviews with Powell. I am not being critical for the sake of it, but it's a real concern that I have. I would be happy to have someone change my mind on this.
Thank you, Thomas. I have the same split feeling: real admiration for Powell's erudition and deep gratitude for his beautiful translation of MOT and awe for Steiner's visionary powers, but when you boil down some of Steiner and Powell's big pictures it sounds something like a Marvel Comic Book plot. Tomberg, on the other hand, doesn't claim to have the whole map of reincarnated evil and good characters- he unveils the mystery of what grace, the fall, redemption might be about and our mysterious agency, and also helplessness, within it. Tomberg also goes to length to write in MOT that any human accessing the Akashic records, as did Steiner and Blavatsky, however great his or her vision may be, will still be able to view only a microscopic part of it. Claims to understanding the cosmic plan worry me, too, especially when they sound so much like human dynamics writ large.
Also with you, Thomas, in that this is not criticizing just for the sake of sounding smart, but honestly wanting to keep things in perspective and hold to the truth. The trouble with the Belt of Mirages, as Tomberg would say, is that the mirages look so convincingly like openings to the truth when they are really detours or dead ends. I need to look up how Tomberg recommends distinguishing the two: I think the mirage is more pleasurable and makes the ego happy while the truth is hard for the ego and often just out of grasp. But, one person's dead end may be somebody else's entry point ... none of this easy. I can only stay with the combined gnosis of experience, revelation, reason and comparing traditional lines of wisdom. My mix of study and intuition says that too-clear assignation of evil to one's identified enemies is suspiciously easy. I think it's wiser to stay in my cloud of unknowing. Still, deep thanks and appreciation to all, the hosts, Robert Powell and you, Thomas.
@@janetmartha Thank you for your profound observations. As for the mirages you speak of, I have my personal barometers. If I start feeling like I am floating above the Earth, that's a sign that I am following a mirage. I must say that I get that feeling when I hear talk that emphasizes "Ahriman", "light beings", etc., at the expense of human agency. I think you are pointing to a similar notion when you say, "the mirage is more pleasurable." Better to stay, as you say, in the Cloud of Unknowing. In fact, one of the big lessons that Tomberg teaches is humility. Another indicator of mirages for me is who take themselves too seriously. I have found that it is usually a sign that they have found, "THE TRUTH" and this echoes what you are saying about how even great visionaries are only able to view a microscopic portion of the truth. There is a poem by Tomas Transtromer that I like, "The Half Finished Heaven". That title says a lot! Anyway, would like to talk more about this with you. If you ever feel inclined, email me at: entheogens(at)yahoo.com
I really appreciate you both touching on these issues because I have been deeply touched by Tomberg’s work but I am suspicious of what comes across to me within esotericism as conspiracy theories or fundamentalism. Tomberg deftly threads this needle so that people maintain their freedom. And to treat something like vaccines in such broad strokes is dangerous because it can cause people to suspend their own judgement and discernment. People can have the same values but make different decisions because the “good” is often context-specific. And what we should be cultivating is the ability to respond morally based on the circumstances we’re actually in versus a projected scenario that feeds into our own biases.
@@mjluvsjc You are so right to point out that it can "cause people to suspend their own judgement and discernment." It is one thing if we want to debate the pros and cons of the vaccine and the protocols for dealing with Covid, and it is quite another if we want to bring out the bogey man of the devil and accuse those who think differently than we do of being partisans of the devil (or Ahriman, as the case may be). I can see no reason to believe that the Pope was not acting in good faith. I am sure that he consulted medical experts within the Vatican and outside of it in making his decision. People are free to disagree with his decisions, however to suggest that the Pope was somehow either in cahoots with Ahriman or that he was being unwittingly guided by Ahriman goes beyond simple disagreement and into the realm of paranoia.
13:45 - Powell’s background with Meditations on the Tarot
31:16 - Negative backlash towards Tomberg from Anthroposophists
38:42 - According to Tomberg and astrology, where are we and where should we go from here
| 39:37 - Zodiacal Ages in Powell’s thesis work
| 43:49 - sidereal astrology vs tropical
\ 47:13 - birth of Abraham age of Aries (going from the ram to the lamb)
50:20 - Astrology and World Events today
| 53:55 - Conjunctions of Jupiter and Saturn in Pisces and birth of Christ
55:02 - Anne Catherine Emmerich
1:02:31 - Events in life of Christ and Stars alignment
1:06:25 - tropical vs sidereal
1:13:08 - what is going on in the world now
| 1:16:02 - Lucifer (false light, good thief) and Ahriman (power, bad thief)
| 1:20:01 - Steiner prophesied the vaccines in 1917
| 1:22:15 - Daniil Andreyev. the red rose with white rose (sophia)
1:34:44 - Shambala
Wow! Very grateful for this, and thanks for you later comments, too: on the underworld and things from below, and not from the devil.
Thanks for your interest. My beliefs are all over the hundreds of hours of podcasts and writings at Front Porch Republic. I'd also be open to Zooming at some point.. Again, thanks for listening
38:30 things from below - I really want to hear Mike S go deeper with that.
I was born, estranged and back again, also praying the rosary
The story of the zodiac is a mystical and historical mystery for me. the more I learn about it an its antiquity, more so it's centrality within ancient religions, the more I am convinced it is part of an ancient vision, a proto-evangelion of Christ. I'm looking forward to learning more from this guest. 'The Wisdom of the Stars' outlined a stunning Christocentric narrative of the zodiac, albeit too neatly, but unavoidably obvious when we change our starting point on the circle. My suspicion is that it originates out of the schools of Enoch, before the flood, whatever those were, because it is from them that the order of Melchizedek propagates them into antiquity.
Who is the author of the book you mention? I’m interested in looking into that
@@Durziage correction, it's the Witness of the Stars, by E. W. Bullinger 😀
@@dominicmdesouza Thank you! Looks very interesting
1:15:00 this makes so much more sense of the divine punishments to Adam and Eve.
the name you have written as James Whitmore is actually James Wetmore
Psychic readings, tarot cards, mediums, would really like to know is it ok to have a tarot card reading?? Is it ok to go to a psychic for a reading?
Or is it against the Bible, against the Father Almighty??
It's really not my jam, and a lot of people bring a heavy, fatalistic approach to such things, which I think is dark. But a lot of people bring a heavy, fatalistic approach to everything, including the Bible, the Father Almighty and Faith. And that's not my jam either..
@@regenerationmikesauterandm7748 can you tell me what your jam is? What are some of your beliefs? Thank-you
Somebody has a very hot mic. Please check levels,