KTM 1090R ADV vs. Honda Africa Twin 1000 - Part3
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- Опубліковано 24 лип 2017
- This is it! The real "head to head" comparison representing the two most sought-after adventure bike in 2017.
Check out www.OutbackMotortek.com for Africa Twin CRF1000L and soon KTM 1090/1190/1290 crash bars and skid plate etc, luggage panniers etc. - Авто та транспорт
Great work dude nicely made video. Thanks for taking the time and getting the two bikes together very good comparison.
Thank you for your kind comment, Chris. I'm happy to hear that you've enjoyed my comparison between these two awesome bikes.
Where are the other videos? A link in description might help ;)
Hello!
On level ground. What is the speed for the first gear without gas and without healing? Short first gear in Africa?
Solid no BS review. I've had a 2010 KTM 990 Adventure since new, got the itch to look at a new bike and rode the AT. It's a solid bike, but it didn't give me the grin factor of the 990 I own. I'll be happily keeping the 990.
Cheers, DB! I feel it, too that the KTM has the extra adrenaline rush whenever I twist the throttle.
Amen brother ;)
When you speak about the suspension were the rebound and compression adjustment screws in the same spot for each bike? Probably not!
Nice comparo on the balance, I'm glad I've already got my twin because it'd be a much harder choice today.
Great vid many thanks. Sorry you dropped it. Have you ever tried trials techniques?
Hello. This video showed something I'm particularly interested in. I do most of my riding alone and was wondering about the difference lifting a KTM vs a BMW 1200 GS. It looked like this bike went up pretty easy, have you ever lifted a BMW and if so how would they compare?
Hi Mark,
Thank you of your comment. I did have a chance to pick up a 1200GS before and I didn't find it particularly hard. It does have a very low centre of gravity thanks to the boxer engine and it also never lays fully flat on the ground, like non-boxer engines. The KTM 1090 is OK to pickup but the Africa Twin is definitely easier to lift.
Ive owned both bikes and the AT is a great bike but Honda cut a few corners here and there to keep the cost down. Also its much softer tame bike. KTM spent money on the important stuff with the 1090 and that motor in sport mode seems almost twice the power of the AT. If that doesn't convince you, ride both at high speed offroad and the suspension difference is very noticeable. KTM did an amazing job on the 1090.
mel22b both are awesome bikes. In the past year or two though Honda has already proven to be more reliable than KTM Adventure models.
Thats not true at all but I can't see either of us proving it.
At the cost of long term reliability.
Outback, thanks for the work you put into this, I like the amount of detail. Do you think that in the future you may be able to compare both bikes with a variety of riders? Vertically challenged, not vertically challenged, off-road focused, road focused?
(Both are great bikes, and I don't have any regrets after buying the KTM!)
Lorry,
What Jacket are you wearing in this video?
Thanks
Dainese. I'm not sure if they still make this model though but I love it!
Very good comparison!
Appreciate your comment, Alex!
Did ktm ever fix the air box? I heard it had issues and doesn’t keep the dirt out either.
And the award for squeakiest boots ever goes to..... this guy.
benjahnz gladly taken!
hahahahahaha
@@Outbackmotortek they're sidis, aren't they?
@@khakimzhanmiras that's correct
Outback Motortek must be the new Romanian manufacture versions.
I test rode a 1290 adventure and an africa twin back to back down some decent dirt roads and high speed. The africa is now in my garage. Honda is the right choice and I love taking it off road no issues except powdery sand. Almost dropped it. Can torque around slowly and controlled in 2nd gear. 1st is too much instant power offroad. The bike absolutely rips too. 0 to 60 in 3.3 seconds. Clutch up wheelies at 70km no.problem. what else do u want!!?? Oh yeah honda reliability as well.
I'm 5'7inches and 150 pounds I feel like the AT is made for people my size.
Ditto
having the 1090 about 6' away in my living room, and after having a decent on the Africa twin, they are both so fantastic that it is wonderful to be alive. This guy is trowing pearls for the newbee...who wonders what to do... Africa twin.... good distance, good off road, ...ktm, if you are 6'- 4 or more, distance amazing, off road amazing..... both cool,
Thanx! how about 1090r and atas manual tranny compo?!
The fall of the KTM at end of vid speaks a lot ! As you said , the Africa Twin is user friendly, capable of anything for anybody, while the KTM is a fast only roads for body builded riders. I used to have a 990Ktm, and switched to the Africa Twin, so did I understand that the Ktm injection set up is optimized for high speed/full throttle which makes it difficult to manoeuver at very low speed with a on/off feel, while the Honda offers a big and smooth torque at low revs making it easy to ride slow, well desired for gnarly terrains.
Gilles Genete thank you for your input. I really appreciate it!
Yes helped I'm 5'7 165. 59 years old. Not feeling any stronger these days. Rode everything imaginable in all conditions and road raced a good bit. Can do police course on big Harley no problem. Now left hand and left ankle arthritis so I'm looking at the Africa Twin DCT.
What kind of upper tank bars are the KTM?
Those are the Outback Motortek upper crash bars for the KTM 1090R. Still in development but things are looking good.
I'm a similar size to you and much prefer the Africa Twin. The deficiencies you mentioned on the AT -- small footpegs, lack of good tank grip, etc. -- can be fixed. But the KTM's tall height, hot engine and poor turning radius would be tough to remedy.
I'm glad you find this video useful. I was focusing on user experience as opposed to specs etc. The Africa Twin will be a choice for a lot more riders, mostly because it's an easy bike to "digest". I feel more comfortable on it and I always have a ton of fun riding it fast or slowly off-road.
The KTM 1090R is a different experience. It's a true bad-ass bike. I love the shape, design, attention to small details etc.
"Tall" of course is only relative to the rider's inseam.
What kind of jacket r u wearing?
Dainese
Can’t wait to get my 1090
Love my Africa Twin Dct.
The AT suspension is way too soft for serious off road riding. You seem to think that is a benefit. The KTM suspension is dialed in and way better for rough terrain. I got to try them both off road and the AT bounced all over the place on the whoops while the 1090 R was tight and controlled with no bottoming. I bought the 1090 R because I wanted a more capable single track oriented ADV bike.
Good feedback to hear. What other bikes did you try? Xcx?
I haven't ridden either, but from all the reviews out there, it seems the 1090 adv r suspension is by far better than the AT or GS for any serious off-road. I am about to purchase a practically brand new 2018 ktm 1090 r. Can't wait to get some off-road miles on it!
which dainese jacket is the rider wearing?
Don't know which model it is. Dainese does not make it anymore
I think that the biggest determinate for which bike to get really comes down to your riding style. If you prefer longer journeys at slower speeds or are just a generally more relaxed adventure rider then the AT would be by far the better option. however if you are generally a faster rider or prefer more technical terrain then the KTM is the best bet. Personally I'm more of a KTM guy.
I agree, it's all about one's riding style and personal preferences.
KTM's a beast and will rip your arm out. Honda is a bit more tamed but having 125hp (1090R) off-road may not be necessary. It's fun to unleash it though.
Apparently Cody Quinn has just completed the Red Bull Romaniacs on a 1090R, something an Africa Twin has not experienced, yet.
Not to mention the durability and reliability of AT. I just returned from 5000km trip to Central Asia, with lots of offroad and one semi-serious crash on high speed. AT just has zero problems with all of this. Pick up and go. Rugged Iron Steed.
Михаил Строгов
I feel like Honda reliability has gone down lately, and KTMs up
humzilla707 How's that? What are the issues with the Africa Twin. Just curious...
sebarmo Before answering, il mention i own AT and traveled it. Its not that Honda is getting worse, KTM just getting better in reliability.
AT during launch had problem with DCT version, some people mention they had faulty gas indicator, which led in some cases to accidents.
I suspected there would be launch problem for absolutely new bike and waited a year for them to silent fix some things.
After 1 year and serious Central Asia trip - no problem whatsoever.
So is the KTM1290 that much heavier than the KTM1090?
Only 22 pounds heavier.
thank you..
My pleasure
So you can raise the seat on the A.T but you can't lower the seat on the KTM. 🤔 the AT seems more practical then.
good review, so looks like AT has better low down torque cause you didn't stall it so easily like KTM ? :)
Suspension of AT is definitely too soft for heavier riders.
Thanks! Not sure about the torque features. I feel more comfortable on the Africa Twin as I have ridden it a lot more than the KTM 1090R. I have some catching up to do.
Yes, AT suspension is very soft and a lot of people are spending money on upgrading the front suspension. The rear one is actually pretty decent.
Outback Motortek How are people upgrading the front suspension? Is any brand selling a kit or something?
In some of the reviews I've read, they've mentioned that (maybe because the KTM is a de-tuned race engine) the performance really kicks in at about 4k RPM while the AT engine is much lower performance with torque available when you break open the throttle. So KTM = exotic sports car while ATM = tractor. Which is better probably depends on what you want to do with it.
Hard decision but still, if I'm traveling the county or world I want the Honda. Ya KTM is good reliability but still, their modo is ready to race and it shows in how they design everything. I don't want to race around the world I want it to make it without problems. And the $1500 cheaper is an extra incentive lol
Actually the new Africa Twin has given some headaches to owners so far. Some would not halt your adventure, like rusted spokes but leaking front suspension due to (easily) blown seals is not something Honda will brag about. My Africa Twin's seal went only after 350kms. It was replaced under warranty. Turns out it's happening to a lot of Twins.
Regardless, the Africa Twin is an easy bike to "digest", meanwhile the 1090R takes some time to get used to but it's equipped with higher quality components. Both bikes are winner, just test ride them before purchasing.
Outback Motortek ya I will be test riding them, my dealer luckily has both KTM and Honda. I'm replacing my Vstrom 650 and my XR650 and I think the Africa twin is almost exactly the combination of those 2 bikes. Good to know about the annoying problems, although first i've heard of it tbh.
There's an entire Facebook page dedicated to AT 1000 issues. I don't think it's that horrible but it sounds bad considering it's a Honda. Regardless, the Africa Twin 1000 is a very awesome bike from any aspect: touring, off-roading etc., it does it all. I think it shines the most for off-roading though.
18 out of 193 on the CRF Facebook page survey hardly indicates a major issue with fork seals especially with a bike that is ridden off road a lot by many. Keep the forks clean and this wont happen.
@@jaypuck6912 exactly, lots of stuff needed to actually go off road don't even come stock on the Honda.
I think Africa Twin is easier to maintain in hard conditions due to parallel twin, that V-shape in the KTM might cause some problems to work on if needed. I mean if you ride it in town and roads its cool, but if you take it to Siberia in the middle of nowhere I would rather have Honda! :)
Lukasz Bat i agree
Great video :) I was gonna buy AT with dct, but It was not out yet so I got a 2016 KTM 1190 adventure with 0 miles on it for a cheaper price. Installed a Rekluse clutch on it and I think that setup is great. I am 174 and haven't dropped it yet, but i sure have respect for it.
Riding with a pillion i feel i dont want a less powerful bike. Anyway i Love the suspension on the KTM, haven't tried AT but KTM feels just right for me.
Congrats on your 1190! I'm sure you'll not regret it.
Hello, can you please test the Super Tenere to confirm this:
The guys from a Spanish magazine did an off-road comparison between S10, AT, GS1200 Adv and KTM 1190 R.
They equipped all the bikes with knobby tyres and each brand (Honda, Yamaha, etc) send a rider sponsored by each one (all Dakar ones that already participated in several editions).
In end they decided the best bike for off-road was the Super Tenere.
Here the article with video (see the video) : motos.coches.net/noticias/bmw-r-1200-gs-adventure-honda-crf1000l_africa-twin-ktm-1190-adventure-r-yamaha-xt-1200-z-super-tenere-comparativo-trail-offroad-2016
They do a detailed analysis of each one.
Quickly draft translation of the general conclusion :
In the end of the day of testing and contrasting the sensations, the four of us clearly match in almost every aspect of each machine.
By assessing the effectiveness and ease of operation on Off Road, I emphasize, exclusively on Off Road, we could order their characteristics as follows:
The Yamaha is, without a doubt, the easiest one . It is the one that has allowed us to go faster and more comfortable in a controlled way at all times. Possibly, for long journeys by motorway, is not as comfortable as the BMW, but undoubtedly is the most endurer. We bee very surprised by the contrast between their real weight and the feeling of lightness and mastery that transmite.
In second place we would place the Honda. It is the least powerful but we have found it very versatile. By ground it allows to go equal or faster than the Yamaha, although it demands something more of pilotaje, in part, because the size of the set is greater. What we lose in Off Road domain respect to the Yamaha we gain in comfort of travel.
Thirdly we would leave the KTM, a very balanced bike that allows a "serious" and complete use on Off Road. But we notice it a little big. At least more than the two Japanese. Perhaps it would be the most versatile.
In last place would be the BMW. We have no doubt that it is an incredible bike to travel, but in Off Road, its limitations make the driving complicated. In general terms and thinking about the usual use that is given to these types of motorcycles, we can say that what is gained in travel comfort is practically proportional to what is lost in ease and effectiveness of driving on land.
Both will get the majority to starbucks equally well. For the rest, rider =95% bike =5% ride what you like. Most on ktm like to posing. See it all the time. Plus ktms age fast and v twins are a pain in the ass to work on when compaired to a parallel. Exhaust in stupid places. Throttle. Bodies wedged in there.
There is a serious flaw with KTM design. Its top triple clamp will brake you ignition key if you have another key or an alarm fob on your key ring. Technically, that might even cause an accident if the key happens to get stuck between the triple clump and frame. I broke my key on parking, so it was not the worst scenario.
Never heard of this flaw. It was, I assume they would have fixed it on the 1090. People say the kickstand location is also a flaw, yet KTM didn't touch it. Maybe they know better?
I told about 1090R. I have got four items on the key ring:
- ignition key (ktm)
- alarm fob (ktm)
- top case key (givi)
- KTM key tag (made of rubber)
You can make such an experiment yourself. Insert the ignition key into the lock, put the rest of items on motorbike frame and turn handlebar to its limiters. I suppose in my case, the top case key worked like a push rod braking the ignition key.
It would be very expensive change for KTM to fix this issue because 1090 is supposed to be mostly a simplification of 1190. However, it has been fixed in 1290R by introducing a keyless engine start.
+Alex Ivashkov serious design flaw? Sounds like you should just have less on your key ring! 🤔
The only key you need on that bike is the ignition key... the rest you can put in a tankbag or your jacket... i really don't see why you want al your crap sweeping around... more a flaw of the driver...
I noticed the key thing right away. I put a quick connect on it, with the smallest end on the key. Even that can catch while turning. I had it once when leaving the gas station. It turned the ignition off while I was turning. Clutch and foot down, almost dropped it. I since make it a habit to lay the quick connect flat every time. Any extra weight eventually will damage the ignition anyways.
Enjoyed the review but the "uh" so much and the stuttering made it a bit hard to stay focused on some parts.
Might I recommend getting your thoughts out and having a take 2 (or more) to get it all out in a smoother manner?
SantaTheInsane it’s a learning curve to get used to being filmed but I’ll get over it! Thanks for your feedback
I can barely hear anything on this video with my speakers turned all the way up :-(
Strange. Sound is loud and clear here and tested on other devices as well. We used a RØDE microphone to record the video and not the camera's built in mic. There's also closed captioning that could come handy in your case.
Trust me mate, the audio is way way low. I spend the better part of my day on UA-cam watching all kinds of stuff.
Thanks for the feedback on the sound.
I didn't have a problem
Regarding standing position on AT. It' not Honda making tank bad for standing it's the posture you try to stand in is incorrect. You shouldn't hug tank with your legs, you should put your legs vertically, hug the seat with your knees. AT has a very good and thought position for standing up.
Every bloody review, people complain about how tall these bikes are. Are there no moto journalists over 6’ tall? I can sit on either of these at 6’4” and flat foot them... with my knees slightly bent. The AT with the seat in the “tall” position is barely stretched out enough for me to be comfortable. Bikes like the F800GS are downright cramped.
Power: I ride 5 miles of gravel to get to the pavement from my home... and more than 100 hp is the least of my concerns. 100HP+ is great for two-up sport touring. Totally unnecessary off-pavement. If that’s what you’re doing, get a Multistrada or the VFR1200X.
Would like to see a re-review with the new Adventure Sports variant of the AT. Fixes the soggy suspenders, it’s a tad taller which is great for me, taller screen, comes with beefier skidplate, crash bars, and a bigger gas tank. Ergos modified to make standing up more natural. Seems to have legit off-road chops when equipped with the TKC80s.
DucFAn, Fortnine is 6' 3". He puts out a damn fine video.
I bought the KTM after trying them both... Felt the AT needed a bit more power.
Only concern i have about the KTM is that it is a bit high when i ride with passenger and i cant get both my feet flat to the ground when stopping at red lights or something but its a minor issue....
Any bike can move my body but KTM moves my SOUL!
Thanks for the comment. That's pretty much my experience with the KTM as wall: tall bike and makes certain things more challenging over the Africa Twin 1000.
KTM is indeed a very special breed. I love staring at it and love all the details that were designed with such expertise and passion.
Nevertheless, I love the Africa Twin as well. I think the power the engine produces is more than enough, even with luggage and passenger but to each his own.
volvomannen79 turatech has a lower seat for 1090R
You might be right about the prices on parts and also the KTM bike itself is more expensive in the US than the AT? Here in Sweden its the exact opposite. The KTM is about 2500 Dollars cheaper and is also better equipped with better tyres (for offroad) and some other stuff. And for power thats more of a personal oppinion, i liked the extra power on the KTM, or it was more like i felt i missed it on the AT a bit. I really wated to love the AT since Honda is Honda and its great and i had the older model of AT and are very happy with Honda over all but after 50 meters of testride on the KTM it had to be that one.. :)
I was looking at both these bikes at a dealership today and asked about the warranty. I was told it was 1 year on the Honda and 2 years on the KTM. Probably right about KTM parts costing more though. They did say there was a little more maintenance involved with the KTM too. Either would be a great pick I’m sure.
volvomannen79 I'm not in this convo but ty for the comments. I'm also from Sweden looking for adv bike. Looked at many and the KTM just went under the radar. Was set on bmw f850gs but it's sooo expensive with all the extras. Definitely gonna test ride the ktm. Cheers!
Love your Canadian flag, eh?
It's boring listening to short riders go on about how a bike is too tall for them. I rode both bikes 1 week apart and went for the KTM1090R. The Honda is a fine bike...but the KTM comes with lower crash bars, much better suspension, better brakes, knobby tyres, off-road mode...rain-mode..sport etc...better pegs...125hp when you want it.
I said exactly the same thing about the KTM's features in the video. KTM comes with better quality components and well-thoughtout parts such as a proper foot peg and not a kid's size one like Honda's.
And yes, it's a tall damned bike and not as easy to maneuver at slow speed as the Africa Twin 1000 and it can and will cause trouble even for not so short riders. Especially when the KTM is loaded with luggage.
Yeah Steve H, both are great bikes, and each has its own benefits, it just depends on which compromises for each riders goals/needs... for riders who actually plan to ride hard off-road or would at least like to progress to that level some day, the KTM is the clear winner. The cost (and time) to address the AT suspension and protection issues makes it a 'project bike'...
None the less, this is a nice review in the fact that there is more detail, however, I kind of want to start seeing some where there is no conclusion other than to tell the viewers to ride the bikes and make their own decision!!
The AT suspension wallows, it’s way too soft, it’s like riding a Blancmange
Ronan Rogers yes, it’s soft like cheese and most likely needs to be dialed...
I mean if youre stopped and not moving, turn off the bike so we can hear you.
SONNY, YOU"LL HAVE TO SPEAK UP! for real now, the audio should peak at about -12dB. your mix on the other hand is close to noise floor.
Turn up the volume.
I feel AT is fragile & yet to set a benchmark whereas KTM1090 is proven off road machine. Anyway I think performance parameter and long distance trashing will give right verdict.Anyway nice video
The great thing about the Africa Twin 1000 is that it's already carrying on the Honda Africa Twin XRV 750's legacy. It's true that it's not as hardcore as the KTM 1090R but several riders completed races on the new Africa Twin such as the Baja Rally, Hellas Rally, Albania Rally etc. Just recently KTM raised the bar really high when Quinn Cody finished the most enduring enduro race in the world at the Red Bull Romaniacs on his KTM 1090R.
Thanks mate
Eres un papa fritas
I'm short, but my feet never touch the ground when I ride. Lol
That's the way it should be
hahahaha
Unless of course you're a stunt rider with titanium shoe plates. ua-cam.com/video/B9BFwHh6wNo/v-deo.html
Please take no offense to this but it would have really helped to have script or something before hand. The review was very much on point, which is obviously....well, the point. The issue I have (and others) is the lack of continuity with the review and the "umm" & "uhh" between every few words. It can throw people off. On a different note: it would be nice to hear an update about these bikes. The AT is discontinued as the 1090r is as well. Now the AT has an update and the 1090r just doesn't exist.
I love Canadians because like us kiwis you say 'aye' a lot. Long live KTM
Traded my KTM 1190 for an Africa Twin. I loved the 1190 but the heat was too much. Their slogan should be Ready to Roast. Anyway, the Africa Twin is a great bike.
Good call on the AT. It's a very impressive bike and the cost of maintenance is more reasonable as well.
or Ready to Repair, my 1050 adventure is a lemon
AT is a little fella bike. KTM is a performance bike, and it'll pop a wheelie in 3rd. AT, 1st gear might be a challenge. AT wallows through its travel, KTM is a performance off road machine.
Wes Hill not that straightforward but thanks for the comment.
KTM is a side of the road machine mine is not reliable
The honda has street tire on it . so it might as well be 2 different bikes!
Had been riding the for nearly year before the 1090R arrived, this the street tire aside I was a lot more comfortable on the AT
Umm ummmm Honda ummmmm KTM uuuummmm
First World Problem, isn't it?
Africa twin all the way.
Blackrainbow depends if your man enough for the Ktm ....!!! Africa twin was no we're near man enough, I settled for 1290 adventure r
The fact you dropped the ktm but not the AT speaks volumes dosent it?...
I find the Africa Twin more easily maneuverable at lower speed. KTM is built up higher and takes more time t get used to but that's just my personal observation.
I would rather ride the bike that's less likely to fall over....But that's just my personal preference. 😂
@@wickedleeloopy2115 that's rider error, like he said once you're used to it, you're used to it.
He dropped it because he is too small for it. If you're small buy BMW or AT if you're tall and doing mostly off road you won't beat a KTM R model.
@Max Sand Yeah, she can ride pretty well, I'm 5'10 and get by fine on my 1190, it took me a while to get used to it, but i've taken it through some pretty rough single track trails with no issues. Its not like riding a 200 lb trail bike, but it still gets down lol.
I would never buy from a company that can’t beat their competition so they buy them and put them out of business (Husaburg) I just bought the Honda loving it !!!
Maybe it’s just the mic, but that ktm sounds like absolute ass.
You need a helmet mic.
Ahhhhhmmm
I don't like the AT for the tires, no tubeless very dangerous.
Roberto Clapasson; is the ktm tubeless?
czondag yes
My 950 KTM has tubes, done 40k miles haven't found that to be dangerous
Tubes vs tubeless both are fine. Tubeless wins out when it comes to repairability, you can plug a tubeless tire without unmounting it.
Thanks but I had to stop watching with all the "uuh"s. You should practice loosing that habit. Especially in review videos
He needs to quit with uhh. Uhh. Uh
is not uhh, Uhh. Uh...... its eh, eh, eh in Canada
Note taken
Get a microphone
Youre not strong enough for a KTM 😂
Possibly it's your total lack of ability off road. The Ktm would kick the hondas arse in every situation . Also if you dropped the Honda like that there would be a fair chance you would bend the rear subframe ! Unlike most modern bikes mr Honda has chosen to make the rear subframe on the Honda fixed as part of the frame and not detachable. Why ? I'm not saying the Honda isn't a decent bike I'm saying the Ktm is in a different league 👍🏼
It's not even a question that KTM is more off-road spec, and has better off-roading features, which I mention in the video but maybe you didn't pay attention.
FYI, subframes don't bend if you drop your bike. Perhaps if you fall off a cliff or get rear-ended by another vehicle.
Yes, KTM is in a different league but it should be obvious to anyone. Hence the "Ready To Race" slogan.
Mark Shirley
I bent the sub frame on my Honda 450r on a trail ride so I would say it's a big deal breaker for me
Subframe issue fixed. For the 2020 year (I don't know when they started it) the rear subframe is bolted on.