It's been several years but I'd like to address some of the comments that were posted awhile back. First, there have indeed been attempts at epic poetry since Milton - Kazantzakis is a good example - but the real point is that any epic poetry since Milton has not been an expression of the culture in the way that Homer's or Vergil's or Dante's or Milton's have been. Epic poetry in the modern world is an individualist attempt, often *against* the prevailing culture, while classical epic poetry was far from individualistic but an expression of a tradition that was seen as valuable and worth continuing. Kazantzakis was not doing that, nor was Walcott, or any other writer no matter how "epic" in scope his works may have been. That's the real change. Second, the culture that has been lost since the beginning of the Age of Revolution (which we are still in) does not need to be identified specifically with Christian culture, although Christianity clearly dominated (and I think elevated) it, but what C. S. Lewis called Old Western Culture, which is shared by pagan and Christian (and even to an extent by Muslim) culture since before Homer's time. Alisdair McIntyre, in After Virtue, makes the same case, as does Richard Weaver in Ideas Have Consequences, and a host of other writers, Christian and non-Christian. Few can dispute that since the Enlightenment a general worldview that obtained since before literacy has now disappeared. Many modern people would think the change is not a loss but a *good* thing, but no one denies that there has been a change, and that the change involves the abandonment of ideas of transcendence, supernatural involvement with humans, objective truth and virtue, all the things we associate with ceremony, ritual, and the elevation of some by inheritance or achievement (aristocracy). Modern man hates those things and is glad they're gone. Fine. But he agrees that they're gone and *that* is what the discussion was about. Third, to call this ethnocentrism is errant nonsense. We were talking about our culture, that's all. If I engage in a discussion of my family because that is the topic that came up, only someone looking for an argument would object that I'm privileging my family over others. No - I'm just answering the question. No one in the video suggested anything about whether our culture is superior to other cultures. It may be, or it may not be, but we said absolutely nothing about that.
“John Brown's Body (1928) is an epic American poem written by Stephen Vincent Benét. Its title references the radical abolitionist John Brown, who raided the federal armory at Harpers Ferry, Virginia in October 1859. He was captured and hanged later that year. Benét's poem covers the history of the American Civil War.[2][3] It won the Pulitzer Prize for Poetry in 1929. It was written while Benét lived in Paris after receiving a Guggenheim Fellowship in 1926.[4]”
What about a poet like Blake? Although he didn't strictly make epic poems, something like Jerusalem has a scope which could be described as epic. Or Goethe's Faust?
Sousândrade's "Guesa Errante" is one of the finest pieces of epic poetry - at least of the XIXth century - and it even brings an epic episode called "the Inferno/Hell of Wall Street"... By the way, Brazil has a long and deep-rooted tradition of epic poems composed following Luis de Camões' Lusíadas' model. Surely it is no popular poem - at all - excellent epic verse, however, was still being written then...
Nikos Kazantzakis, author of Zorba the Greek, wrote a fine epic poem, The Odyssey: A Modern Sequel (1938). The late Sir Derek Walcott wrote epic poetry - Homer in the Caribbean!
John Marsden the recently deceased Derek Walcott also wrote Omeros. And mock-epic has been written since the eighteenth century Of course, epic poetry per se hasn't been written much since Paradise Lost. But prose epic is definitely written in novels like Moby Dick, Joyce's Ulysses, Proust's In Search of Lost Time, Tolstoy's War and Peace, and more. Even Faulkner's Absalom Absalom!, often seen as a tragedy, can be seen as a sort of epic. And let's not forget Cormac McCarthy's bloodsoaked masterpiece Blood Meridian, the 20th century heir to Moby Dick and in many ways similar to the hyperviolent Iliad. In a sense, the epic and the drama is thoroughly connected to beliefs in divinity. One thing I liked about the epic genre is the delightfully strange interplay of the divine and human realms, when man and god walk together. Even dramas which don't have direct reference to divine characters - like the Shakespearean dramas - are strongly connected to ideas of the divine and divinity and the supernatural. The greatest of Shakespeare's tragedies - Hamlet, Othello, Lear, Macbeth - are connected to themes of divine gods (Lear) and even God and more.
As far as Epic Poetry it’s Paradise Lost - Milton as the last gasp . For novels it Crime and punishment . For order in the west it’s the treaty of Versailles .
Epic Poems are dead because they're no longer taught by anyone. It's not like we're short on hero's in today's world. We're short on people being taught that there even is such a thing as an 'Epic Poem', or a real Hero, for that matter. And...is this guy a pastor? Why keep coming back to Christian culture when this style of poetry came up hundreds of years before Christianity ever came around? Trying to take credit?! I got no prob with religions, but why is that always his "coiled punch" waiting to bust out - he has nothing better to respond with? I didn't see where he clarified that. I am sure even the Greeks couldn't claim credit for it. That was the only means of passing on history and moral lessons for thousands of years before them, I would guess. I hope the Epic Poem makes a resurgence.
It's been several years but I'd like to address some of the comments that were posted awhile back.
First, there have indeed been attempts at epic poetry since Milton - Kazantzakis is a good example - but the real point is that any epic poetry since Milton has not been an expression of the culture in the way that Homer's or Vergil's or Dante's or Milton's have been. Epic poetry in the modern world is an individualist attempt, often *against* the prevailing culture, while classical epic poetry was far from individualistic but an expression of a tradition that was seen as valuable and worth continuing. Kazantzakis was not doing that, nor was Walcott, or any other writer no matter how "epic" in scope his works may have been. That's the real change.
Second, the culture that has been lost since the beginning of the Age of Revolution (which we are still in) does not need to be identified specifically with Christian culture, although Christianity clearly dominated (and I think elevated) it, but what C. S. Lewis called Old Western Culture, which is shared by pagan and Christian (and even to an extent by Muslim) culture since before Homer's time. Alisdair McIntyre, in After Virtue, makes the same case, as does Richard Weaver in Ideas Have Consequences, and a host of other writers, Christian and non-Christian. Few can dispute that since the Enlightenment a general worldview that obtained since before literacy has now disappeared. Many modern people would think the change is not a loss but a *good* thing, but no one denies that there has been a change, and that the change involves the abandonment of ideas of transcendence, supernatural involvement with humans, objective truth and virtue, all the things we associate with ceremony, ritual, and the elevation of some by inheritance or achievement (aristocracy). Modern man hates those things and is glad they're gone. Fine. But he agrees that they're gone and *that* is what the discussion was about.
Third, to call this ethnocentrism is errant nonsense. We were talking about our culture, that's all. If I engage in a discussion of my family because that is the topic that came up, only someone looking for an argument would object that I'm privileging my family over others. No - I'm just answering the question. No one in the video suggested anything about whether our culture is superior to other cultures. It may be, or it may not be, but we said absolutely nothing about that.
superb comment
One must honour a great man in order to write an epic poem. It pours naturally from the spirit of admiration for a superior.
“John Brown's Body (1928) is an epic American poem written by Stephen Vincent Benét. Its title references the radical abolitionist John Brown, who raided the federal armory at Harpers Ferry, Virginia in October 1859. He was captured and hanged later that year. Benét's poem covers the history of the American Civil War.[2][3] It won the Pulitzer Prize for Poetry in 1929. It was written while Benét lived in Paris after receiving a Guggenheim Fellowship in 1926.[4]”
For those who want to read a new epic poem I suggest Haestingas by James Moffett.
What about a poet like Blake?
Although he didn't strictly make epic poems, something like Jerusalem has a scope which could be described as epic.
Or Goethe's Faust?
Sousândrade's "Guesa Errante" is one of the finest pieces of epic poetry - at least of the XIXth century - and it even brings an epic episode called "the Inferno/Hell of Wall Street"... By the way, Brazil has a long and deep-rooted tradition of epic poems composed following Luis de Camões' Lusíadas' model. Surely it is no popular poem - at all - excellent epic verse, however, was still being written then...
Nikos Kazantzakis, author of Zorba the Greek, wrote a fine epic poem, The Odyssey: A Modern Sequel (1938). The late Sir Derek Walcott wrote epic poetry - Homer in the Caribbean!
John Marsden the recently deceased Derek Walcott also wrote Omeros.
And mock-epic has been written since the eighteenth century
Of course, epic poetry per se hasn't been written much since Paradise Lost. But prose epic is definitely written in novels like Moby Dick, Joyce's Ulysses, Proust's In Search of Lost Time, Tolstoy's War and Peace, and more. Even Faulkner's Absalom Absalom!, often seen as a tragedy, can be seen as a sort of epic. And let's not forget Cormac McCarthy's bloodsoaked masterpiece Blood Meridian, the 20th century heir to Moby Dick and in many ways similar to the hyperviolent Iliad.
In a sense, the epic and the drama is thoroughly connected to beliefs in divinity. One thing I liked about the epic genre is the delightfully strange interplay of the divine and human realms, when man and god walk together.
Even dramas which don't have direct reference to divine characters - like the Shakespearean dramas - are strongly connected to ideas of the divine and divinity and the supernatural. The greatest of Shakespeare's tragedies - Hamlet, Othello, Lear, Macbeth - are connected to themes of divine gods (Lear) and even God and more.
As far as Epic Poetry it’s Paradise Lost - Milton as the last gasp . For novels it Crime and punishment . For order in the west it’s the treaty of Versailles .
Byron’s Don Juan comes to mind
Idylls of the King Alfred Tennyson
Lord Bryon: Don Juan is the only other epic that comes to mind
"no doubt Woman" save your ideology for someone who cares
save your tears for someone who cares
Save yer tears fer someone who cares. ....
clueless DOESNT WoRK?! get these men an intern
Epic Poems are dead because they're no longer taught by anyone. It's not like we're short on hero's in today's world. We're short on people being taught that there even is such a thing as an 'Epic Poem', or a real Hero, for that matter.
And...is this guy a pastor? Why keep coming back to Christian culture when this style of poetry came up hundreds of years before Christianity ever came around? Trying to take credit?! I got no prob with religions, but why is that always his "coiled punch" waiting to bust out - he has nothing better to respond with? I didn't see where he clarified that.
I am sure even the Greeks couldn't claim credit for it. That was the only means of passing on history and moral lessons for thousands of years before them, I would guess.
I hope the Epic Poem makes a resurgence.
Haestingas by James Moffett.
@@eduardmanecuta5350 no, not like Milton's work.
@@Dave.Mustaine.Is.Genius Haestingas is an epic poem writen in rhyme.
@@Dave.Mustaine.Is.Genius But how?
Ethnocentrism, anyone?
I know right. People don't write epic poems anymore cause people aren't Christian anymore.
No
yes