Thank you Ollie for this fascinating video. As a design engineer myself, I'm always intrigued how design concepts often morph and change over time. Moss was inspired by the Lotus bike - the ultimate performance bike - and used it as a starting point to design a city commuter bike. Burrows and Giant took elements of Moss's design and used it to design an up-market performance bicycle. Full circle. Another thing I enjoyed was looking at some of Moss's design sketches. A good reminder that even with all our modern computer design tools, truly innovative design ideas usually start out with a pencil and a piece of paper.
Love this! 🙌 It's so great to bring you guys along for the different design stages! Did you catch any of our GCN films such as the art of design with Colnago ? 👉 gcn.eu/ColnagoArt
Like the bike itself, the story behind it is just supercool. What a great test you and Si put it through, and what a great vide to hear of the genesis of the bike from Stuart himself. Great stuff as always, GCN!
We love to hear this! The bike is a beauty and we can't thank Stuart enough for allowing us to help tell his story 🙌 Can you think of any other bike stories you'd like us to tell? 🚲
I'm fortunate to own one of these bikes which I have upgraded the bars and wheels to maximum aero efficiency, I have a number of KOM's on strava riding that bike aswell , downhill it's absolutely amazing, none of my friends can keep up , it's an absolute amazing ride I did almost 200km on it this weekend truly a leading design well before its time and an absolute head turner to this day I love it 😀
This was great hearing Stuart’s involvement and the history of the bike. I have the 1997 7700 9speed Duraace model which sold for $3500 USD. I also have the 1997 Giant bike catalog. They offered 2 colors. One for Duraace, one for Ultegra It did take a while for Giant to start shipping the MCR I believe the model years to follow you could only get Ultegra.
@@gcntech I cracked the rim spoke hole and retired it. You have now inspired me to restore it with updated parts and put back on the road. Thanks for costing me $$ lol.
We don't blame you! They are very nice bikes! Did you ever get your hands on any of them? If you fancy a look behind the Trek curtain we made this great GCN+ film 👉gcn.eu/Trek
@@gcntech Thank you for the 'Like.' I never owned either but worked in city with an abundance of bike shops and saw them on display. Back then, I owned a Trek 5200 OCLV and a Specialized Allez.
Fascinating! Loved that story. Come on GCN make one! Take Stuart and his design (is it patented?) and make it, 3D it? Rear brake right where Sandra loves them!😂
I love my MCR! I bought it in the late 90s to complement my Gary Fisher Y-frame mountain bike (which I also still have). When I last used the MCR in duathlon competition I had changed the bars to HED aero bars and the wheels to HED tri-spokes. I haven't ridden it in quite some time, but it's one of a few unique bikes (including a BMW Williams F1 Q8R and K2 OzM) that I see myself keeping for the foreseeable future.
It’s interesting to see the resurgence of design-concepts that were “too bold” to be popular during their respective era. 🖋️It seems to happen in all sports where design language plays a key role in performance: Cycling, Formula 1, etc.
One of the most interesting videos you have posted. Mike has moved down a few pegs. It’s amazing what people will do if they think they can get away with it.
What I would not give for an enclosed chain that was aero, no cleaning the chain every five mins (I live in a rural area) and more speed plus easy to clean. What a brill man, shame giant stole the idea, imagine what giant could have achived if they had included Stuart
One of these came into the shop I worked at back in the day. It was like a spaceship amongst all the double diamond frames, but our race team didn't care for the ride characteristics, apparently. Never saw it again until now. Very cool
@@gcntech At that time, I was a young, lowly mechanic and was only allowed to assemble ATX series bikes and work on rusty Huffys. When the MCRs came in, it was all very hush hush. We were not even allowed to speak of them. The bike(s) came in fully assembled and were accompanied by the Giant reps. I believe this would have been summer 1997, Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA.
I’d love to see a merging of this with Allen Millyard’s MTB design. With the enclosed, single-sided swingarm rear, a single-sided fork, and lightweight chassis, it could be adapted to be a fabulous all-road machine.
Great story. Though the MCR bears a striking resemblance to the '95 Lotus MTB designed in '92 (And Pirana MTB). Always wondered if road cycling took a more MTB design approach how things may have changed...
As a bike commuter I love that enclosed drivetrain, with the ever increasing numbers of people commuting by bike, manufacturers really need to invest more in R&D for bikes used as transport rather than sport.
Check out the new classified hub! Allows a 1x system to run like a 2x with a special rear hub. My thought immediately was for a fixed-gear commuter bike.
Great point! Do you think there is too much focus on performance design and not enough on commuting? How about Ebikes, do you see them as an evolution for commuter bikes?
Hi Ollie and Stuart. That is great. You say a step through frame is sexist. Perhaps a leg over frame is non inclusive, another social concept. I can point out to you (and the bike makers and the UCI) at least 2 categories of rider who are effectively ecluded by "leg overs". I am in one of the categories in that old age has reduced my hip flexibility to the extent that I find stiles a real challenge when out walking. The other is like a colleague at work I knew who had a hip replacement. He was advised that cycling would be very good exercise to continue with but he must get a step through to avoid "popping" his hip joint out. Because of the UCI ban and its knockon effects, I have a 19kg!!!!! bike which I'm sure you understand makes climbing a real challenge. A TCR would be a god send for me. What a lost opportunity. Incidentally, the makers could have put a hole in the molding for a "D lock" with, if necessary, plugs to restore the aero. I applaud your attempts at a protected drive chain. Early bikes (say 1900s) had oil bath chain cases so their chains lasted forever.
Mike actually did the carbon repair on my road bike, I had no idea he was this Mike! Shame he did Stuart over like that, I'll give him what for next time, haha!
This wasn’t a unique idea. Pinarello had a similar TT bike in 96 before the MCR was built. The idea that this guy was done over by Mike Burrows is a stretch. His bike was a utility machine that internalised the drivetrain & brakes for maintenance purposes, the MCR was shaped for aero. Trouble is Mike isn’t here to defend himself.
The first Time Trial bike I built was a Softride Power V, with Spinergy Rev X wheels, I seem to recall they were both banned😃 I do like stuff that is different, who knows what bikes would look like if they didn't ban non triangle framed bikes....
Stuart was way ahead of his time. Just stick an electric motor on his original design for the masses and you would have an amazing looking, low maintenance e-bike accessible for all.
Giant should've paid Stuart a little something on each sale, only fair and reasonable. It was certainly a bit sneaky that his concept moved to production without his knowledge. And even now, Giant could do the right thing with something for Stuart.
Stuart's design, Mike Burrow's Lotus, the first generation Australian RMIT/AIS superbike with all it's stolen IP controversy ... wind has a way of flowing.
Hi GCN, I was just wondering if a wet road has lower rolling resistance than a dry road, and therefore is faster to ride on, at least in a straight line? In theory it would have less friction and therefore would reduce rolling resistance, it would probably however be more obvious on cheaper tyres than performance compounds if it were to be the case. #AskGCNtech
It's interesting that this kind of bike design kind of lives on in very inexpensive big box store 26" "mountain" style bikes. I think there is a market for this kind of bike but built with higher quality.
@@StuartMossTV Did you expect to be? Did you have an agreement in place about the ownership of the work you produced? I know this is something we’re very careful about at my company (in a completely different industry), when we host students, to make sure everyone knows where they stand. Otherwise, I suspect it’s not something many students would give much thought to. You described Mr. Burrows as “the client”. In a normal commercial contract I would expect the client to own all the IP you generate, to be able to to with it as they see fit. I guess as a student you weren’t paid by “the client” for your work, but I suppose you were compensated in the form of a degree.
@@Steve.M that’s a tough one to answer. The MCR actually came after my degree. In those days IP wasn’t taken quite as seriously as it is today. Mike inspired me with the lotus bike and hopefully I inspired him with my university project. Thanks to GCN doing these videos we might both inspire someone else. 😃
Spent about 500 miles on it and so far so good. ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxMesz3KOGEmwmvyKQfLfrRSUXLFzfVHZA Pros:1. Very light2. Solid quality build3. Fast delivery: It arrived 5 weeks earlier than expected.4. Easy assemblyJust a few cons but nothing major:1. Cheap tin tubes and had flat on first day... but not a big deal. I replaced the tubes.2. Seat is a bit uncomfortable but that's pretty much the same situation with most bikes.3. Seat post is a bit long/high for a smaller size 48 bike - had to saw 2 inch off to fit properly. The lowest setting is too high. The post locking system does not seem to hold well (perhaps because I saw 2 inch off).4. wheels are not tubeless compatible (from what I can tell)
Hi GCN, brothers and sister. I have 50mm deep aero wheels that are 27mm wide. I want to ride 28mm tires. Does having a tire that’s wider than the rim cancel all of the aero benefit! Will 25mm tire be significantly more aero or just a tad? #AskGCNtech
the guy is cool and i love his motivation but does he even ride. make the front brake integreated in the hub and close the drivetrain just doesn't sound like good maintenance solutions to me.
Nothing wrong with that! Like Stuart said, he originally designed the bike with the masses in mind. He wanted to create a bike that could work for everyone, very much the same idea as the Boris bike. 🙌
Stuart seems like a cool guy. Cheers for taking the time to tell us about the design process Stuart! 👏
Very kind 😎
THIS! 👆Stuart and the bike are always welcome at GCN Tech 🙌
Thank you Ollie for this fascinating video. As a design engineer myself, I'm always intrigued how design concepts often morph and change over time. Moss was inspired by the Lotus bike - the ultimate performance bike - and used it as a starting point to design a city commuter bike. Burrows and Giant took elements of Moss's design and used it to design an up-market performance bicycle. Full circle.
Another thing I enjoyed was looking at some of Moss's design sketches. A good reminder that even with all our modern computer design tools, truly innovative design ideas usually start out with a pencil and a piece of paper.
A great summary. 👍
Love this! 🙌 It's so great to bring you guys along for the different design stages! Did you catch any of our GCN films such as the art of design with Colnago ? 👉 gcn.eu/ColnagoArt
Like the bike itself, the story behind it is just supercool. What a great test you and Si put it through, and what a great vide to hear of the genesis of the bike from Stuart himself. Great stuff as always, GCN!
We love to hear this! The bike is a beauty and we can't thank Stuart enough for allowing us to help tell his story 🙌 Can you think of any other bike stories you'd like us to tell? 🚲
I'm fortunate to own one of these bikes which I have upgraded the bars and wheels to maximum aero efficiency, I have a number of KOM's on strava riding that bike aswell , downhill it's absolutely amazing, none of my friends can keep up , it's an absolute amazing ride I did almost 200km on it this weekend truly a leading design well before its time and an absolute head turner to this day I love it 😀
That's awesome! Great to know it's still seeing the open road 🛣 How does it compare to a modern bike with the components upgraded? 🔎
Drop ur ig I wanna see posts of the mcr, its such a stunning bike.
This was great hearing Stuart’s involvement and the history of the bike.
I have the 1997 7700 9speed Duraace model which sold for $3500 USD. I also have the 1997 Giant bike catalog.
They offered 2 colors. One for Duraace, one for Ultegra
It did take a while for Giant to start shipping the MCR
I believe the model years to follow you could only get Ultegra.
Super cool to hear you've still got one! Do you get a chance to ride it? We bet it turns some heads at the local cafe! ☕
@@gcntech I cracked the rim spoke hole and retired it. You have now inspired me to restore it with updated parts and put back on the road.
Thanks for costing me $$ lol.
The Giant MCR and Trek Y-Foil were the road bikes I lusted over when they first came out.
We don't blame you! They are very nice bikes! Did you ever get your hands on any of them? If you fancy a look behind the Trek curtain we made this great GCN+ film 👉gcn.eu/Trek
@@gcntech Thank you for the 'Like.' I never owned either but worked in city with an abundance of bike shops and saw them on display. Back then, I owned a Trek 5200 OCLV and a Specialized Allez.
Excellent video and excellent featuring Stuart!
As someone studying Sports Technology at Loughborough University. I now need to raise my game 😂
Hahahaha they have certainly set the bar high! 🙌 If your project cycling related?
@@gcntech it will definitely be cycling related, currently a first year
I hope Stuart got a good grade for the project!
Fascinating! Loved that story. Come on GCN make one! Take Stuart and his design (is it patented?) and make it, 3D it? Rear brake right where Sandra loves them!😂
Ingenious
What a great video. Fascinating stuff.
Such a cool story.
I love my MCR! I bought it in the late 90s to complement my Gary Fisher Y-frame mountain bike (which I also still have). When I last used the MCR in duathlon competition I had changed the bars to HED aero bars and the wheels to HED tri-spokes. I haven't ridden it in quite some time, but it's one of a few unique bikes (including a BMW Williams F1 Q8R and K2 OzM) that I see myself keeping for the foreseeable future.
It’s interesting to see the resurgence of design-concepts that were “too bold” to be popular during their respective era.
🖋️It seems to happen in all sports where design language plays a key role in performance: Cycling, Formula 1, etc.
You're right! It's super cool to see the how the bike has effected todays designs 🙌
Looks super exotic that bike
One of the most interesting videos you have posted. Mike has moved down a few pegs. It’s amazing what people will do if they think they can get away with it.
Really interesting, cheers chaps.
What I would not give for an enclosed chain that was aero, no cleaning the chain every five mins (I live in a rural area) and more speed plus easy to clean. What a brill man, shame giant stole the idea, imagine what giant could have achived if they had included Stuart
just fabulous --
One of these came into the shop I worked at back in the day. It was like a spaceship amongst all the double diamond frames, but our race team didn't care for the ride characteristics, apparently. Never saw it again until now. Very cool
Did you enjoy working on the bike? Did the radical design make it different to service? 👀
@@gcntech At that time, I was a young, lowly mechanic and was only allowed to assemble ATX series bikes and work on rusty Huffys. When the MCRs came in, it was all very hush hush. We were not even allowed to speak of them. The bike(s) came in fully assembled and were accompanied by the Giant reps. I believe this would have been summer 1997, Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA.
I’d love to see a merging of this with Allen Millyard’s MTB design. With the enclosed, single-sided swingarm rear, a single-sided fork, and lightweight chassis, it could be adapted to be a fabulous all-road machine.
That could be a clash of two very interesting designs 👀 Maybe we'll have a work with our friends over at GMBN 👀
I’d like to see it upgraded with sram red axs etap 12 speed and modern Wheelset and integrated aero handle bars and retested
What a great story about this bike. Sad to see what happened between Stuart and Mike. Stuart sure moved on to a great job though!
That bike stood in Willie Engelbrecht's bike shop (South Africa) window for a long time. As a poor student I used to stare/drool at it for hours!!
Great story. Though the MCR bears a striking resemblance to the '95 Lotus MTB designed in '92 (And Pirana MTB). Always wondered if road cycling took a more MTB design approach how things may have changed...
It looks like the Espada by Pinarello, the one that Indurain rode to the hour record and in time trials in that era.
It would be awesome to see this frame retro-fitted with modern components: cockpit, wheels, drive train, everything. Then compare it to the Cadex
That could make a great Vs video 👀 What bike do you think would take it?
I would love to do that 👍
I saw the same bike at a shop in Toronto.
The first reply from GCN 🤦♂️ thank goodness Si replied.
Agreed
As a bike commuter I love that enclosed drivetrain, with the ever increasing numbers of people commuting by bike, manufacturers really need to invest more in R&D for bikes used as transport rather than sport.
Check out the new classified hub! Allows a 1x system to run like a 2x with a special rear hub. My thought immediately was for a fixed-gear commuter bike.
The commuter roadbike.....would that sell? A dropbar road frame but with enclosed drivechain and internal gear hub? hmmm
Great point! Do you think there is too much focus on performance design and not enough on commuting? How about Ebikes, do you see them as an evolution for commuter bikes?
Good morning!!!
Wow, interesting story. Funny the things you can learn...
Plenty of more learning to be done! We have a film about Mark Burrows over on on GCN+ 👉 gcn.eu/mikeburrows
step by step, from the first crazy step
I liked the bike
Hi Ollie and Stuart. That is great.
You say a step through frame is sexist. Perhaps a leg over frame is non inclusive, another social concept. I can point out to you (and the bike makers and the UCI) at least 2 categories of rider who are effectively ecluded by "leg overs". I am in one of the categories in that old age has reduced my hip flexibility to the extent that I find stiles a real challenge when out walking. The other is like a colleague at work I knew who had a hip replacement. He was advised that cycling would be very good exercise to continue with but he must get a step through to avoid "popping" his hip joint out.
Because of the UCI ban and its knockon effects, I have a 19kg!!!!! bike which I'm sure you understand makes climbing a real challenge. A TCR would be a god send for me.
What a lost opportunity.
Incidentally, the makers could have put a hole in the molding for a "D lock" with, if necessary, plugs to restore the aero.
I applaud your attempts at a protected drive chain. Early bikes (say 1900s) had oil bath chain cases so their chains lasted forever.
The idea behind the enclosed drive train was just that.
@@StuartMossTV I guessed that Stuart, well done.
Try an Airnimal!
@@audaciousfirst1 Hi Audacious, thanks looks a possibility and folding to boot. I will certainly look into it.
Mike actually did the carbon repair on my road bike, I had no idea he was this Mike! Shame he did Stuart over like that, I'll give him what for next time, haha!
This wasn’t a unique idea. Pinarello had a similar TT bike in 96 before the MCR was built. The idea that this guy was done over by Mike Burrows is a stretch. His bike was a utility machine that internalised the drivetrain & brakes for maintenance purposes, the MCR was shaped for aero. Trouble is Mike isn’t here to defend himself.
This bike soon influenced the giant halfway with the single fork design
Olly spent this entire video looking like his brain was about to explode. 😁
Too much info 🤯
The first Time Trial bike I built was a Softride Power V, with Spinergy Rev X wheels, I seem to recall they were both banned😃
I do like stuff that is different, who knows what bikes would look like if they didn't ban non triangle framed bikes....
A bike influenced by the Lotus, to be a city bike, that influenced modern time trial bikes.
Stuart was way ahead of his time. Just stick an electric motor on his original design for the masses and you would have an amazing looking, low maintenance e-bike accessible for all.
Great point! Would you like to see Stuart design a new bike? 👀
@@gcntech Most definately!
Where is the prototype today?
Giant should've paid Stuart a little something on each sale, only fair and reasonable. It was certainly a bit sneaky that his concept moved to production without his knowledge. And even now, Giant could do the right thing with something for Stuart.
How about a meeting/reunion with Mike and Stuart?
That would be awesome unfortunately Mike had passed not too long ago infact...
Mike is no longer a living breathing part of planet earth unfortunately bud.
Stuart's design, Mike Burrow's Lotus, the first generation Australian RMIT/AIS superbike with all it's stolen IP controversy ... wind has a way of flowing.
Hi GCN, I was just wondering if a wet road has lower rolling resistance than a dry road, and therefore is faster to ride on, at least in a straight line? In theory it would have less friction and therefore would reduce rolling resistance, it would probably however be more obvious on cheaper tyres than performance compounds if it were to be the case. #AskGCNtech
It's interesting that this kind of bike design kind of lives on in very inexpensive big box store 26" "mountain" style bikes. I think there is a market for this kind of bike but built with higher quality.
Will be very interesting to see if this bike design makes it's way back! Keep those eyes peeled 👀
It has similarities to the Trek Y series
And now Giant have a very similar bike in the cadex
What do you make of the Cadex? Should we put the Cadex against the Giant? 👀
@@gcntech that would be cool
Hope this guy was compensated for his idea
Nope
@@StuartMossTV Did you expect to be? Did you have an agreement in place about the ownership of the work you produced? I know this is something we’re very careful about at my company (in a completely different industry), when we host students, to make sure everyone knows where they stand. Otherwise, I suspect it’s not something many students would give much thought to. You described Mr. Burrows as “the client”. In a normal commercial contract I would expect the client to own all the IP you generate, to be able to to with it as they see fit. I guess as a student you weren’t paid by “the client” for your work, but I suppose you were compensated in the form of a degree.
@@Steve.M that’s a tough one to answer. The MCR actually came after my degree. In those days IP wasn’t taken quite as seriously as it is today. Mike inspired me with the lotus bike and hopefully I inspired him with my university project. Thanks to GCN doing these videos we might both inspire someone else. 😃
@@StuartMossTV Here's to all the new designers out there! We can't wait to see what's next 🍻
Thanks Ollie , Stuart and crew . Is he any relation to Stirling ?
Unfortunately no
No worries! Glad you enjoyed the video! We did another video of this very bike over on GCN 👉ua-cam.com/video/Kqg5cfkYJAY/v-deo.html
@@StuartMossTV Thank you Stuart. No worries sir, I appreciated your knowledge and perspective. Be well
Spent about 500 miles on it and so far so good. ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxMesz3KOGEmwmvyKQfLfrRSUXLFzfVHZA Pros:1. Very light2. Solid quality build3. Fast delivery: It arrived 5 weeks earlier than expected.4. Easy assemblyJust a few cons but nothing major:1. Cheap tin tubes and had flat on first day... but not a big deal. I replaced the tubes.2. Seat is a bit uncomfortable but that's pretty much the same situation with most bikes.3. Seat post is a bit long/high for a smaller size 48 bike - had to saw 2 inch off to fit properly. The lowest setting is too high. The post locking system does not seem to hold well (perhaps because I saw 2 inch off).4. wheels are not tubeless compatible (from what I can tell)
Hi GCN, brothers and sister. I have 50mm deep aero wheels that are 27mm wide. I want to ride 28mm tires. Does having a tire that’s wider than the rim cancel all of the aero benefit! Will 25mm tire be significantly more aero or just a tad? #AskGCNtech
Yup gott love that giant my chemical romance
Bring this UCI banned bike to Triathlon bike. So it look like a Blummenfelt bike prototype👌
the guy is cool and i love his motivation but does he even ride. make the front brake integreated in the hub and close the drivetrain just doesn't sound like good maintenance solutions to me.
It's a personal thing, but I find that the more 'aero' a bike becomes, the uglier it gets. Having said that I really impressed by this bike.
Looks like a Boris bike.
Nothing wrong with that! Like Stuart said, he originally designed the bike with the masses in mind. He wanted to create a bike that could work for everyone, very much the same idea as the Boris bike. 🙌
If you are paying for that Epidemic Sound you're wasting your money. Music is totally unnecessary in any of these desk conversational videos.
Was that a UCI-sanctioned dad joke at the end there?
Sorry the UCI has no jurisdiction here 😂
It's pretty poor form for Mike Burrows and Giant to have stolen his design
Giant=cheap carbon frame
Ollie's most awkward interview ever. Not his fault. It was painful to watch you suffer through that!