Are Tournaments Destroying 40K? A Pro Opinion: Vanguard tactics
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
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We chat to the one and only Vanguard Tactics about why he teaches 40K, his tournament experiences, and loads loads more. A huge thanks to Stephen for coming onto the show!
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I had the BEST time doing this interview so thank you so so much for having me on. I would love to come back sometime and tell those Butler Stories haha. If anyone has any questions please let me know.
Ty for everything you're doing, Stephen. The recent GW tournament tone really feels like you've had a big impact on that, which is incredible :D
It was a really interesting and entertaining episode. As a university teacher, a lot of what you said about teaching really chimed with me. I found it quite inspirational to be honest.
Stephen your content is fantastic. Best battle reports I've seen. I never feel bored by information I already know because it's given succinctly and efficiently. I never lost in information I don't know for the same reason. But above all, and this is what got me subscribed originally, is the professional sportsmanship and positive attitude. It's supposed to be a game. Whether it's a narrative casual with every painted model in the house or a competitive tourney for prize money, it should be fair and fun. Mad respect for assembling a team of positive gamers.
great podcast! Given you said you love co op games i reccommend Fire Team Zero. Game is absolutely brutal but a lot of fun!
I;m really curious to know how people can get over the fear of going to a gym, great interview, incredibly interesting
I will watch the Mordheim battle report 10k times just myself!
We will hold you that
Reporting for watch party duty. Man-sized rats aren't real.
Same!
Genuinely spent 20 mins trying to find that battle report
53:00 talking about the way that lesson is done is literally how the manager at my local GW taught me and my friends to play 3rd or 4th edition. He organised an event on a Sunday where everyone that had a skimmer brought it, and he prepared loads of land speeders and things for new players coming along to use. We were encouraged to bring friends along. We did a race across the table and then a race across the table where we could shoot the other vehicles, and so on.
It was so much fun, there were about 20 people playing, and I think every new player there on that day ended up buying something, so it was a huge success for the store. Plus we now had load of new friends to play games with which kept us in the hobby.
Great to see more guests on the show, you guys have a really good format for a casual quality conversation with so many people in the community, it will continue to bring people together in the community more and more! Love it!
Lovely comment thanks so much.
This one got real.
The raw emotion from admitting that not only did they not drill the barrels, but sometimes they even cut the cables!
😂👍
Pat's Four-hammer comment needed more recognition.
Brilliant. 😂
I caught that! ❤😂
This really is hands down the best podcast on UA-cam all your videos are a joy to watch, you guys have brilliant chemistry together and the guests you have on are always fascinating
Far too kind - Geoff
@@thepaintingphase not kind enough for all the work you guys put in, I myself and I’m sure the rest of the community are rooting for your continued growth and success
Side note- thanks Geoff for following me on instagram, top man!
Love your videos and especially interviews like this one. What a joy to listen to and watch.
SPOILER:
One note though: I think Patricks pun about Fourhammer was not appreciated enough 😅 Love it.
Brilliant session to listen to while I painted 20 dire wolves for my first AOS army. Thanks heaps guys. ❤
funny you mention lockdown and weight - for me that period was when I actually found myself sticking to a diet and exercise regime, and lost loads of weight :) And found lots of time to paint miniatures and learn the game rules (mostly AoS, but I also learnt my 40k army: TAU pretty well ).
Perfect timing for me to notice this. Just got out of work, and heading home to paint a Minotaurs SM captain for my friend. Cheers lads, this'll be good listening.
It was fun to hear your take on cable cutting. I'm personally a sucker for details and I love attaching all the little extra bits.
I had no idea Stephen got his intro in the Plymouth store. That was my geedubs for YEARS. Well done whichever of Mike/Mike/Rob brought Mr Box into the game!
Was laughing when Patrick said 4 hammer, lol
You guys seem like so much fun to be with. This is my first time watching and now I’m hooked on you all. Wish I could find players like you all near me.
I use to manage a game store and had some of the worse experiences with people that played GW games until a friend at work showed me everything great about the systems !
I'm going to be that guy about pronunciation but only because I'm Irish! Samhain is pronounced "Sau-ihn", and is the old celtic holiday that has been turned into Halloween. Great interview as usual lads
Tournaments aren't something I have had a great experience with personally, I think overall though that it comes down to not being a style of games I like. I think the reason Tournament play gets slated as a negative is in part that feedback loop, described. However, I do think it is 3 factors, tournament players as they look more in-depth produce a disproportionate amount of podcasts, videos etc - and because it's also entertainment they don't nuance everything so they can be seen as being negative and slating units, armies and games. People also look to meta-lists as they want a good army, it's expensive so they see it as a safe option and then they take that to a casual game, gun to a knife fight situation, and then tournament play gets blamed. Finally, some dislike updates, and revisions and see the balance being an issue caused by tournament play .... rather than a consequence of a bad design process that is being shown up by the tournament play.
The whole analysis of balance is complex and needs to be looked at internally, externally, and across skill levels. I would actually argue that if it gets significantly askew, it is more harmful to casual play as tournament players are going to analyze meta and understand how to work around it.
VERY casual gamer here, avid collector but with no interest in competative 40k at all but Stephen comes across like a really nice chap and its interesting to hear the perspective of the other side of the hobby!
Love listening to this and very interesting to hear a pro players opinion on the gaming scheme and how it is affected by the competitive scene
🔥 Mordheim ✊. Mordheim ✊. Mordheim ✊🔥 Better than Warcry by FAR. flavor, narrative... hands down.
I'll have you know I spent months on Ultima VII, Part 2, buying flour, adding water, baking bread and selling it to the king at 400% profit. That was pretty much all I did until stupidly putting in the cheat code for a flying carpet and getting irreversibly wedged into the side of a mountain.
Hahaha! Amazing……bloody carpets though 🙄
Come on guys. What've I said before - my hobby feed is way too full as is - less interesting guests please 😂 Maybe the core 3 of you discuss your favourite acrylic beige for 2hrs?
What an interesting man. Top listening - keep 'em coming, you all genuinely brighten up my afternoon.
Interesting chat. The issue we have always had with competitive gamers in our group is that people dont want to feel pressured in to buying particular models that they dont like. You can argue all you like about making the most of the models you have, but we know that is not going to cut the mustard in the tournament scene unless you are very lucky. I am glad competitive and casual/narrative 40k are two different things. may it forever stay that way.
MESBG saved my hobby. It's hands down the best (current) games system GW does. Perhaps across any manufacturer. Its led to making some amazing friends, running some wonderful events, and led to a second hobby of podcasting. Would love to host you at an event Peachy!
Absolutely loved the show. Stephen is such a top bloke and an absolute ambassador for competitive play and general mental wellbeing. There's a huge stigma about the tournament competitive scene and it's hard to take that step into a tournament if you're only hearing the stereotypes of sweaty cheesy neckbeards.
Really appreciated the sharing of the journey and how he turned the tough times into a motivation to better things.
Cheers gents.
really interesting interview, Stephen comes across great and loved his backstory! amazing podcast as always
3:27 We can all agree Mordheim is actually the greatest game ever made...
Edit: I legitimately don't think you guys realize how huge of a cult following Mordheim still has. Social media is FULL of trade, art, and gaming groups. UA-cam has tons of nostalgic gamers re-experiencing their love of the game and detailing its history. And Tuomas Pririnen is incredibly supportive and active in the scene. He's done a few print runs of modern Mordheim-inspired minis and even released HD copies of some of the original art!
It might be the greatest game but the LotR system is the best game engine.
Interesting chap, good show gents!
This was a great chat, never been too much into the competitive side of 40k, but hearing Stephen positive outlook, i might just give it another go.
10 minutes into the video. Need to comment. MORDHEIMMMM!!!!!
Don’t worry about the viewcount, it ‘lol be great!
my local game club is currently running a Mordheim campaign. you boys should come up norf
Another great show! I always feel super enthused and bubbling with ideas after painting phase! All kinds of awesome 👏👏💪👌😊
You’re far too kind.
No matter how nice Stephen might be I have never seen a tournament Warhammer or Magic the Gathering player around my nick of the woods who wasnt also just completely unbearable. These people have made playing with toy soldiers or fantasy cards part of their core identity and it did not make them into better humans. Rarely have I found a group of people I am less comfortable to be around.
Binned off what I was watching thr moment this became available
Ha! We’re honoured
Happy to see Peachy is still preaching the “Warcry is the best” gospel.
I'd say that tournaments are skewing the game, and forcing GW into a mutual relationship which compounds this. The focus on tournament play on UA-cam and SM would give a new player that this is the main way to play 40K when its the minority not the majority.
Amazing interview Peachy! Steven is such a great guy to listen to!
Cheers! And I fully agree
Been playin awhile so I can sum up tournament players pretty well with a metaphor.
Tournament players are like women that marry men and expect to change them. Sorry tourney players, GW will always leave the toilet seat up and forget your anniversary. Deal with it.
Absolutely great episode, Stephen's 3 Army per ITC Season is actually genius IMO.
What’s the time stamp for that?
@@warrenfygp5326about 34 mins
Stephen box is an absolute legend of the hobby. Representing good play with charisma and charm. Breaking the typical wargamer stereotypes. Very interesting podcast :)
Great chat. I'm sure there's many, many hobbyists in their 30s who discovered Warhammer through the LOTR model range, especially the partwork magazines - I certainly did!
What a genuine bloke. Great show lads
It's not about them excluding them from tournaments. It's about the fact going into legends means they imminently going to be squatted.
It kind of links into the oversized impact of tournaments on the community's perception of Warhammer, as why should not allowed at tournaments equal not useable or unbalanced or not going to be supported.
@@trajanthegreat2928 I just played my 2nd large game of Grimdark Future (GF). It's a good game system.
I'm not saying for certain that I'm completely abandoning 40k, but I've certainly got no intention of playing 40k anytime soon.
All this GW squatting is irrelevant to me if my group continues with GF.
I absolutely would watch a Mordheim battle report! Great guest and content as always. Really enjoy your interviews and Stephen is a really champ on sharing his past challenges in life.
thanks
Also - love the idea of having to commit to 3 armies at the start of an ITC year. I'm not a competitive player but seemed a great way to stop meta-chasers
Stephen seems to be popping off over my socials lately, good to see! Love what he stands for
Great video and insight in to the hobby.
Makes me want to dip a toe in to competitive gaming, purely to get some games in.
Without a shadow of a doubt one of the best and most engaging hobby chats. Amazing to hear, I'm sure, only a brief snippet of what Stephen has been through and how relatable some of his experiences are (obvs the butler ones). Hope I get to chat things over a drink with you sometime.
And thank you to the Painting Phase for giving some banter!
10:10 this is why this podcast is becoming one of my favorites. Normal gamers talking about gaming and coming together. Love it!
I see so many claim that LOTR is GW's best ruleset. But I've played Titanicus, and that game is fucking incredible, imho their best skirmish game, easily.
10:08 I would love to see a live stream of Mordheim
Id argue your friends should actually be encouraging you have have Gunslinging Cowboy Crusaders lol
Great episode, a nice variety of discussion topics.
I love the irony of them talking about negative clickbait titles on a video "Are Tournaments Destroying 40K?" 😆
Ooooh this is gona be good!
We can’t wait for yours’ Captain!
Sorry but a 4 up is a 50% chance right? So a 4 then a 4 is a 25% chance of damage; and Stephen is talking about that like it’s an insurmountable challenge. Anyway whilst I was writing this comment he made a comparison between tournament players and Ronaldo so it’s good to know that he’s doing this without ego
That a luxury biscuit you got there, patron must be going well!
They're down to £1.25 a pack right now in Tesco, grab the high life while you can!
We’re like The Scarface of biscuits!
Four-hammer was a hugely unappreciated comment.
I really dont think warhammer should be ultra competitive or professional. Its a beer and pretzels game
Great chat...Thought it would be heavy rules type of chat but quickly turned into a great episode. The passion for good gaming and have fun shine through.
My learning to play new games tend to be.....
"Can I shoot that massive thing with this little peashooter"
"Yes, but you will need to roll 4 6's in a row and then I can ignore that on a 2+"
"Ahhh...so there is a chance! Let's roll!"
I have leaned a lot from my mistakes over the years : ) but always had fun
They said Mordheim once in that podcast... I have to yell MORRDHDhehhheHIIEEIEIIIIIIIMMMM !
MorrrrrdHeiiiimmmmm! More often…..please
It's Monday night. It's 9pm. I have a car load of parcels and empty Inpost lockers to hunt down. Let's muva truckin do this 🤘😎🔥
Mordhiem live stream would be epic
I've played a fair few games now and initially just used the models I wanted for friendly lists and didn't really understand all the uproar around the game balance as the rules seemed ok and none of the armies used seemed to outclass any other. Then I build a competitive list and got all the complaints as my opponent was never in the game and it was over in turn 2.
WARNING! Video contains explicit pegging scene!
and here i am, in my pants painting S tier minis instead of getting in shape ! Thank you for making me feels bad !
Never too late to start my brother!
Damn looked up Stephens' fitness photos he was cut.
Lord of The Rings IS the best GW system, keep shouting it Peachy!
I absolutely use an archive marker for gun barrels. No one has ever noticed - several people have commented how much time it must take to "drill out all those barrels". Make of that what you will.
What a genuine chat, you all getting together, having a great conversation and allowing us all to tune in is simply awesome. Look forward every week! Thanks Chaps
Dont worry, I'll watch the Mordheim battle report at least three times.
Great interview as per usual gents! If you ever interview Auspex Tactics, his appearance should just be a disembodied voice with a PC monitor running a power point in the chair.
Again, Great podcast - Keep doing what you are doing!
PLEASE DO A MORDHIEM Video !
SPOILER: Peachy pegs the second prettiest man in warhammer.
I just like to play games where if I made better tactical decisions on the table, or rolled better dice, I know I’d stand a reasonable chance of winning (1 in every 3 games is fine). I also like to play games where my opponent has the same chances. 40k, all too often, doesn’t enable that. It’s all too easy for one person to turn up and get smashed off the table by the end of turn 3. It’s definitely a problem.
Ooh then you’ll love Warcry for that exact reason, no over powered fighters can cope with the randomness of deployment, victory and twist cards, every game gives both players an even chance, though sometimes the odds can be stacked against you, it makes the challenge all the more fun
Because 40k is like playing chess where one side moves every piece before you do. It needs alternating activations to balance out
I've never seen Stephen's content before but he was a terrifically entertaining and charismatic guest, really enjoyed that interview!
Pat takes the MVP this episode for me however for how immediately on the ball he was with that PEG10 code suggestion. No hesitation. 😂
Yes Peachy, MESBG for the win
Love LOTR - the OG
Fitness tip for everyone for free...any sized pizza is a personal pizza if you believe in yourself...
Grrr I hate Desolation marine models. I have a theory on why they’re so good. To sell the models….shocking I know. I’ll never have a model in my army that I don’t like the look of
Loved hearing about Mr 📦 time at school and stuff, was very similar to me and probably many others. Great episode 👏
LoTR is an amazing battle system.
GW’s best game easy in my opinion!
MESBG is the GOAT
@@christopherheintz2634 Hopefully the game gets some new content that it deserves!
Preach
Does the game do well? Curious about it
I'm not a Warhammer Player. But my son started to play Kill Team a while ago and is now starting to put his nose into WH. He likes to build and paint the Minis together with his cousin, wich I think is a LARGE benefit of these games, way better than waste their complete time with electronical devices of any kind.
BUT it seems to be... unpleasant to play against other, unfamiliar players. We visited our local Gaming Store/Club several times and watched games by several grown, adult players while buying figures.
And it Always felt more like an "who knows better" contest with several books and printed papers.
We are still in the beginners phase of Warhammer, so we don't need several different books...yet.
But for me, as a not really involved observer, Warhammer just looks to uncomfortable and unfinished to play.
I now watched several games of OPR and downloaded the rules. Looks way better to me for a enjoyable game.
New painting phase phase unlocked: Geoff’s on the doors stories
I know! He just casually dropped that bomb on us, we'll mine deeper next time.
The painting phase / vanguard tactics crossover course would be perfect. Stephen seemed like such a lovely chap, it was great hearing his story and I will definitely look up the courses.
It feels like y'all only actually talked about Warhammer for 25 minutes and the rest of this video is about Health and fitness coaching.
The interview goes, where it goes…
This was a really refreshing video to watch after being excited for 10th and all of the complaints and opinions being thrown around. I got one game in, enjoyed it. This helped my find some perspective on what to pay attention to in the hobby
You forget GW writes rules to sell models. Desolation squads weren't selling, GW writes good rules. This shouldn't be a tournament game due to this sole reason.
It's not always true though. Lots of things come out brand new and have crap rules. It honestly feels like they just randomly decide rules.
Think you give GW too much credit there. Rules were written before models were released
i bloody said to him in a stream that he looks like tom hopper!!!!
I’ve seen vanguard tactics being recommended a fair few times on yt but admit I’ve skipped it because I thought it was just about tournament playing.
But this sitdown was great so I’ll have to go take a look!
Id love to watch a game with you guys in it!
I would love to hook Stephen up with some stl files for Mordheim!
DM him on Instagram, I bet he’d love that, tbf so would I lol - peachy
Stwphen’s Instagram - @thevanguardtactics
The bard is a cool dude! I don’t really have a lot of interest in the content VT is bringing out, but I would gladly watch and listen to him chat all day long
think GW is killing it but I like the angle.
I feel like the guest is totally missing the point here. Tabletop gaming is not a competitive professional sport like soccer, it’s about having fun with your friends and using your imagination.
This pushing of competitive/matched play as “the way to play” since 8th has really damaged the heart and soul of the hobby.
I would watch you guys play Mordheim :D
The algorythm protects
Anyone else now looking to order a pair of BOXers with the face of Vanguard Tactics on their box?
One does not simply get Sean Bean on the show
“Mordheim - That wins every time”