Hey, Bro, if you're gonna make Tree guitars, you gotta bend the sides Sometime! That wood is completely unique, and more fun than scary to work with. Truly a magical material.
Thanks, shoving it in the mold really helps to keep the sides constrained straight across while they dry and cook and settle. One issue for me is that I've chosen to use a number of non-maple species with extravagant figure, and some of these are happy to distort in problematic ways. With some species (curly maple comes to mind) I have had success without any prebending by steaming under pressure and working very quickly, here's the scoop.... 1) Wet the wood (sanded to perfection @ .060", or 1.5mm) thoroughly, placing it between two sheets of .010" or .25mm stainless shim stock with a heat blanket on each side 2) Turn the heat up to full blast, that is, plug it in directly without a control A Watlow brand or equivalent 5 watt's / square inch (or 25mm square) density will get to 500F, 260C in a few moments. 3) Press the stack down hard as you can to the bench with a heavy chunk of straight 4X4 or something on top to lean on, clamps will take too long to remove 4) Wait until you see full amounts live steam shooting out from the wood layer, but don't wait too long, remembering that there's only so much water in there, so don't delay, timing is Everything here. 5) Wearing heavy gloves, INSTANTLY get the stack on edge and INSTANTLY clamp it into the shaped wooden forms, (yes, the complex cutaway side also) You will have a few moments to ooch things around to align the figure at the centerline of the endblock 6) Turn the heat down to 75 - 90C for a while, and make sure you don't singe your sides, then rest overnight 7) Voila! I once demoed this live for a builder friend (w/o his assistance), and he couldn't close his mouth for half an hour. The whole thing takes less time than to read this. 8) Next day unclamp and maybe reclamp with dry cloth or soft paper next to the wood to help it get dry. 9) The results of this method, properly performed, are STUNNING, both in the excellent true shape, and the excellent straightness across the sides. Not for the faint of heart, but a near-perfect method for wood that likes to bend like out pal, maple. 10) The reason this works so well is that you create a pressurized, nearly closed stainless steel enclosure that traps the steam in the wood and gives you the time you need to bend it while the wood is as plastic as it ever can get. There is a thermosetting behavior with most woods, so you have exactly One Chance to get this just the way you want it, the second try would be very likely to fail. I imagine many of you who have bent sides will get this point. Of course, if you don't use curly wood, bending is much less of a problem.
Amazingly fast bending, love the explanation about the surface of the bending iron that makes perfect sense I wonder why no one has thought of it. Beautiful video series
Thanks! I hope you can't imagine how painful it is to shatter a piece of precious side material. Lots of experiments and headscratching! When it's all figured out, it always looks obvious.
@@kenparkerarchtoppery9440 That's the magic of your You Tube channel or other builders that I follow it looks almost always smooth but yes I can imagine how much work it needs to seems easy
Rick Gumaer- Ken, I have retired and have been watching guitar making and repair videos and repairing some of the guitars in my collection (only about a dozen). I just came across this today and am enjoying it immensely. I also have hired a producer and my cd should be out this summer. Maybe our reunion will happen this year and I can get to play your guitar once more. I get my second vaccine shot on the 27th and I still need to get out and see your shop sometime this year. Rick
Thanks. Christian! I've always been happy to share what I've learned, and now I have the support and help needed to make it ongoing. Glad you like it, stay tuned, there's lots more to come.
Ken use a multimeter with a temp probe, for a good estimate on wood temp from the variac Works for me👍 on mine 99 volts gave me 350 ° f for maple , awesome video.
I too have a variety of means to measure and control several Electric heating Devices in my work. In my old fashioned, handmade bending rig, I aim a gas flame inside the French curve shape bending surface so that there is a substantial heat gradient. The flat part of the curve it's not as hot as the end, so I can preheat the wood on the flatter surface, ensuring that is has enough moisture, and then slide around to the hot curved end to quickly perform sharp bends of the waist and cutaway.
I made my bending iron out an aluminum pipe i bought from McMaster and an incandescent bulb with a dimmer. It is nice to jave the ability to control the temperature using a knob :D
Very nice! I'm currently building another iron, using a section of extruded aluminum sailboat mast, and an electric blanket heater, and will get around to doing a segment on it.
Hi Ken I am watching #3 and answered my question about what metals you used for bending backing. I will watch the whole series next time! Thank you for all the time you are spending to help!
Howdy ken I sent you a drawing of my Slide on the side and I would really appreciate a critique if you could find the time. Thanks again for all the great information it it much appreciated. Pat
Hi Ken. Can I ask what is your side mold made of (it looks like mdf or plywood)? And what is covering the outside of the inside mold? Is that the same stainless steel shim stock the strap is made of? Why cover the inside mold and not the outside mold with that material?
When I mark the outside offset from the master outline template, I use a washer sized for this offset, and a black, small tip fiber pen held vertically. When sawing, I "leave" this outside line by just a whisker, then attend to whatever tiny corrective sanding might be needed on the outside surface. Next, I use this freshly cut and approved outside mold shape to offset - washer mark the inside mold. The resulting scrap released by this second cut is an amusing particle board "side" right around 1.5mm or .060, if I remember correctly. Kinda like trying to peel an orange in one piece of peel. I have used several materials for these low temperature "post - cure" side molds, and the best one for me is 1" or 25mm MDF, bonded with I don't-think-it-makes that much difference, WEST epoxy or yellow glue. No glue will save you if you get too much heat in there, ask me how I know. The wonderful thing about the particle board is that even stacked up at 4" or 100 mm thick, it saws so very nicely that you can dispense with corrective sanding altogether if you take care and saw slowly. Glue a nice piece of paper on the stacked blank, make a crisp, thin pen line with no errors, check for bandsaw table squareness, mount and stone-true a new 1/4" 6 tpi blade. These previous bandsaw films may be helpful, ua-cam.com/video/BsBEc3SXUDM/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/_BxUftUf4Zc/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/hpA_8GePZ1Y/v-deo.html The material is so homogeneous that it can't throw off the blade, and you'll look like an Olympian if you're careful. Anyway, the punchline is you'll want to assign one side of the mold or the other as a "reference" surface, and in this case it was easy to make the outside surface the reference surface, which is what we'd all naturally prefer, right? The layer on the outside of the inside mold is a 1/8" or 3mm medium density neoprene foam rubber, and is designed to squish to the thickness needed in order to help even out the pressure everywhere, and "fix" any shape anomalies present in the inside mold. By compressing and adding pressure in any little "funny spots" that aren't perfect, (just a little help from your friends) against the reference surface of the tool, which, in this case, is the inside of the outside mold. Confusing? I could do a demo, it's easy.
@@kenparkerarchtoppery9440 Thank you so much for the thorough answer Ken! I have learned so much from your channel, it is an incredible resource. Thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge and answer questions, its is much appreciated!
This could work well in some situations, but with vacuum clamping, we can only get 14 ish PSI, which isn't always enough pressure. Plus the bag is really in the way, it can be tough to control things inside a plastic bag. Bags are great for some things, though!
I like your bending forms. Searched the Internet hoping you might have a book or details on the building of the forms but no luck. Was wondering if you have any information available? ALSO, love the design of your bender! You should market that. Anyway, thanks so much for the videos, they're great!
Thanks! The forms are pretty easy to make, quick recipe, glue up a stack of MDF , I like 1", Then stick down some nice paper, use a washer to ink in the offset from your pattern, to mark the outside part. Then put a new 1/4" blade on your bandsaw, tune the little darling up like crazy, then saw to split the line. If you feel the Force, and nail it, it's almost done. Then clean up any little bumps on the outside part, and clamp it all to you bench so that you can use a washer bearing on the outside form to ink the line on the other part, and mark and cut the same way. If you do it right, you'll get a particleboard "side" as proof of your badasssery.
The idea of using a chunk of The Tree during a filmed bending demo is the kind of monkeyshines I'm here for!
Hey, Bro, if you're gonna make Tree guitars, you gotta bend the sides Sometime! That wood is completely unique, and more fun than scary to work with. Truly a magical material.
I like your hybrid system of hand bending and blankets. I've not seen that before.
Thanks, shoving it in the mold really helps to keep the sides constrained straight across while they dry and cook and settle. One issue for me is that I've chosen to use a number of non-maple species with extravagant figure, and some of these are happy to distort in problematic ways.
With some species (curly maple comes to mind) I have had success without any prebending by steaming under pressure and working very quickly, here's the scoop....
1) Wet the wood (sanded to perfection @ .060", or 1.5mm) thoroughly, placing it between two sheets of .010" or .25mm stainless shim stock with a heat blanket on each side
2) Turn the heat up to full blast, that is, plug it in directly without a control
A Watlow brand or equivalent 5 watt's / square inch (or 25mm square) density will get to 500F, 260C in a few moments.
3) Press the stack down hard as you can to the bench with a heavy chunk of straight 4X4 or something on top to lean on, clamps will take too long to remove
4) Wait until you see full amounts live steam shooting out from the wood layer, but don't wait too long, remembering that there's only so much water in there, so don't delay, timing is Everything here.
5) Wearing heavy gloves, INSTANTLY get the stack on edge and INSTANTLY clamp it into the shaped wooden forms, (yes, the complex cutaway side also) You will have a few moments to ooch things around to align the figure at the centerline of the endblock
6) Turn the heat down to 75 - 90C for a while, and make sure you don't singe your sides, then rest overnight
7) Voila! I once demoed this live for a builder friend (w/o his assistance), and he couldn't close his mouth for half an hour. The whole thing takes less time than to read this.
8) Next day unclamp and maybe reclamp with dry cloth or soft paper next to the wood to help it get dry.
9) The results of this method, properly performed, are STUNNING, both in the excellent true shape, and the excellent straightness across the sides. Not for the faint of heart, but a near-perfect method for wood that likes to bend like out pal, maple.
10) The reason this works so well is that you create a pressurized, nearly closed stainless steel enclosure that traps the steam in the wood and gives you the time you need to bend it while the wood is as plastic as it ever can get. There is a thermosetting behavior with most woods, so you have exactly One Chance to get this just the way you want it, the second try would be very likely to fail. I imagine many of you who have bent sides will get this point.
Of course, if you don't use curly wood, bending is much less of a problem.
Amazingly fast bending, love the explanation about the surface of the bending iron that makes perfect sense I wonder why no one has thought of it. Beautiful video series
Thanks! I hope you can't imagine how painful it is to shatter a piece of precious side material. Lots of experiments and headscratching! When it's all figured out, it always looks obvious.
@@kenparkerarchtoppery9440 That's the magic of your You Tube channel or other builders that I follow it looks almost always smooth but yes I can imagine how much work it needs to seems easy
Very nice job. You made that look too easy. Love your retaining mould.
It's hard to get to simple.
Rick Gumaer- Ken, I have retired and have been watching guitar making and repair videos and repairing some of the guitars in my collection (only about a dozen). I just came across this today and am enjoying it immensely. I also have hired a producer and my cd should be out this summer. Maybe our reunion will happen this year and I can get to play your guitar once more. I get my second vaccine shot on the 27th and I still need to get out and see your shop sometime this year. Rick
Rick! Do come visit!
Thanks for sharing these insights; great value; tiptop content! This channel should grow a lot in the next weeks and months...
Thanks. Christian! I've always been happy to share what I've learned, and now I have the support and help needed to make it ongoing. Glad you like it, stay tuned, there's lots more to come.
fabulous demonstration. FYI: my archtops include a 1957 Levin, late 50s Rodebald Hoyer Jazzmaster, Maton Alver, Maton Stradivarious
Wow, this sounds like quite a party!
Ken use a multimeter with a temp probe, for a good estimate on wood temp from the variac Works for me👍 on mine 99 volts gave me 350 ° f for maple , awesome video.
I too have a variety of means to measure and control several Electric heating Devices in my work.
In my old fashioned, handmade bending rig, I aim a gas flame inside the French curve shape bending surface so that there is a substantial heat gradient. The flat part of the curve it's not as hot as the end, so I can preheat the wood on the flatter surface, ensuring that is has enough moisture, and then slide around to the hot curved end to quickly perform sharp bends of the waist and cutaway.
Just wondering if a steam box would work for this if you don't have a bending iron?
Kinda, maybe, depending. I'll show the build of my new iron setup sometime soon, off the shelf parts.
I made my bending iron out an aluminum pipe i bought from McMaster and an incandescent bulb with a dimmer. It is nice to jave the ability to control the temperature using a knob :D
Very nice! I'm currently building another iron, using a section of extruded aluminum sailboat mast, and an electric blanket heater, and will get around to doing a segment on it.
Hi Ken I am watching #3 and answered my question about what metals you used for bending backing.
I will watch the whole series next time!
Thank you for all the time you are spending to help!
Cool, thanks
Howdy ken
I sent you a drawing of my Slide on the side and I would really appreciate a critique if you could find the time.
Thanks again for all the great information it it much appreciated.
Pat
Hi Ken. Can I ask what is your side mold made of (it looks like mdf or plywood)? And what is covering the outside of the inside mold? Is that the same stainless steel shim stock the strap is made of? Why cover the inside mold and not the outside mold with that material?
When I mark the outside offset from the master outline template, I use a washer sized for this offset, and a black, small tip fiber pen held vertically. When sawing, I "leave" this outside line by just a whisker, then attend to whatever tiny corrective sanding might be needed on the outside surface. Next, I use this freshly cut and approved outside mold shape to offset - washer mark the inside mold. The resulting scrap released by this second cut is an amusing particle board "side" right around 1.5mm or .060, if I remember correctly. Kinda like trying to peel an orange in one piece of peel.
I have used several materials for these low temperature "post - cure" side molds, and the best one for me is 1" or 25mm MDF, bonded with I don't-think-it-makes that much difference, WEST epoxy or yellow glue. No glue will save you if you get too much heat in there, ask me how I know.
The wonderful thing about the particle board is that even stacked up at 4" or 100 mm thick, it saws so very nicely that you can dispense with corrective sanding altogether if you take care and saw slowly.
Glue a nice piece of paper on the stacked blank, make a crisp, thin pen line with no errors, check for bandsaw table squareness, mount and stone-true a new 1/4" 6 tpi blade. These previous bandsaw films may be helpful,
ua-cam.com/video/BsBEc3SXUDM/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/_BxUftUf4Zc/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/hpA_8GePZ1Y/v-deo.html
The material is so homogeneous that it can't throw off the blade, and you'll look like an Olympian if you're careful.
Anyway, the punchline is you'll want to assign one side of the mold or the other as a "reference" surface, and in this case it was easy to make the outside surface the reference surface, which is what we'd all naturally prefer, right? The layer on the outside of the inside mold is a 1/8" or 3mm medium density neoprene foam rubber, and is designed to squish to the thickness needed in order to help even out the pressure everywhere, and "fix" any shape anomalies present in the inside mold. By compressing and adding pressure in any little "funny spots" that aren't perfect, (just a little help from your friends) against the reference surface of the tool, which, in this case, is the inside of the outside mold. Confusing? I could do a demo, it's easy.
@@kenparkerarchtoppery9440 Thank you so much for the thorough answer Ken! I have learned so much from your channel, it is an incredible resource. Thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge and answer questions, its is much appreciated!
You're welcome! Archtoppery is my happy place.
You have no doubt tried this already that's why I really want to ask. how about bending wood using a vacuum bag and a mould?
This could work well in some situations, but with vacuum clamping, we can only get 14 ish PSI, which isn't always enough pressure. Plus the bag is really in the way, it can be tough to control things inside a plastic bag. Bags are great for some things, though!
I like your bending forms. Searched the Internet hoping you might have a book or details on the building of the forms but no luck. Was wondering if you have any information available? ALSO, love the design of your bender! You should market that. Anyway, thanks so much for the videos, they're great!
Thanks! The forms are pretty easy to make, quick recipe, glue up a stack of MDF , I like 1", Then stick down some nice paper, use a washer to ink in the offset from your pattern, to mark the outside part.
Then put a new 1/4" blade on your bandsaw, tune the little darling up like crazy, then saw to split the line. If you feel the Force, and nail it, it's almost done. Then clean up any little bumps on the outside part, and clamp it all to you bench so that you can use a washer bearing on the outside form to ink the line on the other part, and mark and cut the same way. If you do it right, you'll get a particleboard "side" as proof of your badasssery.
@@kenparkerarchtoppery9440 Great Thanks!
You're welcome!
Wasnt it A Einstein that said “make things as simple as possible but no simpler”
This sure sounds like something he would've said. My hero.