It's surprising that a show where one of the protagonists is THE representation of toxic masculinity, has less misoginy and is more trans possitive than a show about a group of nerds, and that the character isn't such a big asshole with his trans friend and even is kind of chill about it eventually
that's kind of an interesting element of Charlie's character in fact despite being this depiction of masculinity Charlie himself has a lot of feminine traits that he totally owns & is secure with
Kinda like how it's surprising that a show about a conservative who is fine with doing and seeing the same things every day (King of the Hill) was understanding and even defending of a closeted gay father, his partner, and drag queens, while Family Guy and the Simpsons as well as Futarama which are seen as more liberal leaning shows had absolutely dehumanizing and cruel depictions of trans women.
@@blueizumiking of the hill has always been pretty progressive tbh hank might be conservative but he always tries to understand things the only exception might be with how he treats bobby
I don't like that Bill being effeminate at times is supposed to be a joke, but as a teen I used to have a preconceived notion that, to "justify" transitioning, trans men had to be the butchest of the butch afab people possible, so seeing that a trans man could 1) look exactly like a cis man and 2) still have feminine mannerisms and interests would have done me a lot of good, I think
fucking big mood right here omfg… I’m a feminine transmasc enby and it took me until I was 24 to finally come out to my mother and people around me, and 27 (last year) to feel comfy enough to actively seek testosterone (I got my first shot at the beginning of the month, yay!) and be more open IRL, all because I internalised that “you aren’t ACTUALLY a trans man if you’re fem in any way” bullshit for a LOOONG time and needed to work through it before I could medically transition properly.
@@MeidoGhoul I was best friends with a trans man for about six years before I even considered that I might be trans myself. He's a super masc rugged mountain man who knew he wanted to be a boy since he was five, and I am absolutely not that lmao. It took until I was 24 before I discovered that fem trans guys exist, and that's when everything finally started to fall into place. Just to be clear, my friend has been my biggest supporter since day one and NEVER tried to gatekeep me. I just only had one blueprint for what transmasculinity looked like, and since my experiences were so different from his, I just assumed that my issues were caused by something else. Representation matters, folks.
@@MeidoGhoul hello! as a pre-HRT 28-year-old transmasc enby myself, this comment alone is genuinely validtating to me and is doing a lot to dissuade my fears on starting T. thank you
My roommate is a transgender guy, and we used to work at the same store. He’s not *open*, but he’s nearly 40 and beyond giving a shit if someone at work knows. A co-worker that knows I’m queer came up to me and asked me how long I’d known my roommate was trans. We’d all worked together for four or five years at that point. I was caught off-guard, because holy shit why wouldn’t you be, and I asked if my roommate had told him so. “No, I figured it out.” “….how?” My roommate passes pretty well. (And he grew a better beard than this cis coworker.) “He has a feminine walk.” At this point, I burst out laughing. “My dude, you have the swishiest walk I’ve ever seen on *anyone*.” I’m a cis woman, and this cishet guy walked with more sway than I did. (When I told my roommate, he died and said “Has he ever seen himself walk?”) My roommate had the same notion that you did (he mentioned it before when we were talking) so it made the whole co-worker interaction even funnier. Edit: I reminded him of this the other day and he cackled. Still funny.
22:00 The pointing at her SON before fainting absolutely FULLY strikes me as her being shocked by the revelation that the guy she’s seeing has been with her son as well. 2000s sitcoms of this nature are not exactly known for being subtle - I think that if she was shocked by him being trans, they would have had her point at his damn crotch or something and do a double take
I agree, Evelyn didn't care that Bill was Trans, she was more creeped out that he had slept with her son prior to his transition. It's actually nuanced for a sitcom, and Charlie eventually gets around to addressing Bill by his proper name and pronouns.
in the balcony scene, i appreciate that they made a point of showing eveline pointing to bill and then charlie before fainting, making it pretty clear that bill having dated her son is what made her faint. and i may not be particularly good at reading lips but it did seem like she was saying "you? and...." and then pointed at charlie
yeah to me it seems pretty clear that that's the part that made her faint, like they telegraphed it _really_ blatantly just to make sure you could tell what she was reacting to.
I love that little joke: "Please, you couldn't beat me when I was a girl." It's the kind of cutesy joke that only works from a trans person, but also doesn't disrespect their current identity. A lot of the other jokes from this episode were kinda yikes-y, tho. The jokes revolving around the idea of "I don't care that he's trans, I care that he [knows my sexual preferences|is dating my mom]" are okay, but the "Haha, isn't it funny that you dated a girl who transitioned" suck majorly.
The jokes are cringe, but they are mostly directed at cis-het fragility. I can't comment to the accuracy of the trans-masc experience, But Bill seemed to be played as a sympathetic character with a well cultivated and respected masculinity, and an over all decent guy. As far as trans rep in casual media, I'd say that's more than fair.
@@TheresaBaker420 Go for it anyways. Make them wonder what you could possibly mean. It's a delightful feeling. I do still get misgendered, I dont 100% 'pass' in all circles, and the joke still brings me joy.
I haven’t seen the full episode but I agree. But on a lighter note, the mom not caring about Bill being trans was really nice. When I realized I was a trans guy I sort of felt like I had to come to terms that no girl would ever like me because I was trans. Obviously that isn’t true but seeing that feels like it sort of mended a wound in my heart from my baby trans days. (Especially because trans guys barely get any rep in media.)
It’s kinda sad how thrilled I was to hear that the episode featured a trans man. So much representation, both the positive and overwhelming negative, is focused on trans women, and it feels like a breath of fresh air to finally see trans men acknowledged
honestly as soon as she said the premise I was shocked because like you said- trans masc people (binary trans men in this case) get very limited representation whether it be good or bad.
I'd argue that most "representation" of us trans women is so openly negative and hostile to us that it is actively and wholly detrimental to our portion of the community. I too enjoy seeing more trans men represented in media, as it's terrible how invisible they are. But I hate seeing that framed as if the endless sea of bigotry and hatred directed at us trans women in media is somehow a good or enviable thing, or as if "trans women get enough attention" when all that attention is hateful and negative. Or worse, that we should be thankful for it. We aren't. We don't get "representation", we get mocked.
@@idklol-cw5flof course indie games/indie projects in general have more transmasc rep, it’s the fact that mainstream media tends to avoid acknowledging our existence that’s an issue. Transmascs speaking about their issues in no way downplays trans women’s experiences, we can literally coexist and advocate for each other? And there’s a lot of really solid trans women representation nowadays too, especially from smaller indie projects but also great shows like Pose. Of course being represented as a predator sucks and is a major issue, but that can be discussed on literally any other video talking about transfem representation. I mean, it’s pretty ironic to complain about downplaying transfem issues on one of the only episodes on this channel talking about a transmasc character.
Is this the first episode she's covered about a transmasc person? I'm not sure, but I think it might be. Probably because most transphobic shows will tend to target transfems more.
@@samlewis6487 I believe i've watched every ep in this series and yes I am 99% sure this is the first transmasc episodes. Most shows in general seem to target transfems/trans women more, not all ofc, but most.
@@samlewis6487 i think so, yes. two and a half men talked about transmen rather tastefully, and as a bi transguy, i thoroughly enjoyed the homoerotic undertone between charlie and bill :)
I'd love to see an episode on Degrassi, tbh. That was definitely my first exposure to the reality that trans men exist. Although that's A LOT of mediocre TV to watch.
@@samlewis6487 It's not that transphobic shows target transfems more, that's an incredibly frustrating misconception. It's a combination of the complete ERASURE of trans men, and that the type of transphobia aimed at trans men often takes a very different form, including the "lesbianification" of trans masculine individuals. Usually trans men are treated like they're wayward butches who are playacting at masculine identity. Or they get treated like their gender identity is just "confusion" and that they need a cis man to f%ck the "feminine woman" back into them, to really show them their "place". And then you get the rare times that trans men are actually represented in media, and they're almost always portrayed insensitively. They're treated as either a totally unimportant and completely asexual and non-threatening-to-cis-male-masculinity bit character on the sidelines, a character meant to be there almost solely for trans brownie points like the character in "Shameless" (who was one of the most positive romantic relationships that one of the main characters had, but anyone with even a passing knowledge of trans characters in media knew IMMEDIATELY that he would never be "endgame" because god forbid a gay cis man end up with a trans guy instead of his shitty on-again-off-again cis male ex, and of course despite the trans male character being popular and cute and even played by a trans male actor, he was written off sloppily from the show and just kind of made to "disappear" in favor of the aforementioned shitty cis male ex), or they’re so painfully insensitive that it makes you wonder why none of the supposedly progressive show runers/actors/staff stood back and went "yikes", like the ratty, pubic-hair-gathered-from-the-bathroom-floor-and-glued-to-the-actress's-chin transphobic caricature of a trans man played by Tatiana Moseley in "Orphan Black". OR they manage to be a completely offensive and bigoted example of trans men in a series that is otherwise known for being nuanced and sensitive in it's portrayals of trans feminine characters, like the manga "Wandering Son" that follows a trans girl and trans boy, and the trans boy is the ONLY trans masc portrayal in the manga and he decides randomly to stop being trans masculine after some friends tell him he looks so much cuter as a girl, or the only notable trans masculine character in "Transparent" (a series filled with mostly nuanced and decent portrayals of trans women at different stages of their lives), who is there only to be sexually humiliated with a "prosthetic failure" that gets treated like it's a complete sex-ending disaster instead of a two second fix, and to prove to the audience that trans men could never be sexually satisfying to cis women who are attracted to "traditional" (aka cis) men. So again, while trans masculine characters don't have the same easily identifiable one specific transphobic trope like the "tricking straight men" trope that trans feminine characters often fall into, this does NOT translate into a lack of insensitive, gross and transphobic representation for trans men/trans masc folk, and trans men are not less targeted than trans women--and in the rare cases that they are "less targeted" in some sense, it's almost always because of transphobia, where trans men are treated like confused delusional women to be pitied and ignored. Transphobes do not treat trans men with any less contempt than they do trans women, the tranphobia just takes a different form that isn't as talked about or acknowledged even by so called "allies" of the trans community.
Yeah, sadly it's pretty common for shows to, intentionally or not, equate being trans inherently with drag queens and gay male culture, which leads to only AMAB people being depicted as trans. Which is bad, obviously, because it inherently links back to saying that trans women are just men. Which is bad, onviously.
I watched that episode after watching this and holy shit, its uncanny how okey-isch and sometimes even respectable this episode was, sure they did alot of trans jokes and other shit that wasnt okey, but Chralie starting to accept Bill as Bill and the Mom just being okey with dating Bill, just hating the fact that he used to be Charlies ex. The most transphobic people in the episode where Alan and Berta the Housekeeper.
I remember seeing this episode as a kid, I think the subversion of the issue being that bill slept with both Charlie and his mom was the biggest premise of the joke, bill being trans as a plot catalyst is kind of good in that it isn't used as the punchline, but a subversion to the real punchline, it normalized it in a roundabout way
Season 11 had a decent premise where Alan was dating a trans woman, at first the idea baffled him but he quickly opened up to it with his niece Jenny even being happy with him that he’s open to it
I'm a cis woman . I'm bisexual with a large preference for feminine presenting people. And I recently looked up some of my male exes and 90% are now trans woman.
I find it funny that Bill went home with Charlie as a friend, and then just wandered off to sex his mom. Like. Power move, honestly. Good for him, leave your shitty transphobic friends and go sleep with their moms.
I'll be honest if they really "have to" use a cis actor, I like it when its someone of the correct gender because it stops all the confusing 'woman pretending to be a man' stuff getting confused with trans men's actual identities. (I'm trans masc enby)
Also Chris O'Donnell was/is pretty widely considered a heartthrob so I'm absolutely not complaining, definitely a huge upgrade from the many cis women with short haircuts that they usually had playing trans men.
to be fair, one of the main tenets of acting is learning to portray someone completely different to yourself, nick offerman for example, is very dissimilar to ron swanson, but he sells the character believably. Actors are very familiar with how people act with mannerisms/speech/etc and the actor did a perfectly fine job for a sitcom
Is it just me or are the trans men that do show up often more accepted? Like, I don't think I've seen any "cascading vomit" scenes related to the trans male experience.
@@MiotaLeehonestly, that could be in part due to the fact we're widely forgotten, most extremely transphobic people are, obviously, very ignorant and unintelligent about trans people as a whole. and if you barely know shit about us because you hate us, chances are you're only going to really be aware trans women and transfems exist because of their hypervisibility as the almost exclusive targets of many transphobes. and people who know more about trans people, and thus hopefully are likely to be less transphobic and more educated, will know there's all kinds of different trans identities out there and would probably be more willing to make at the very least okay representation. however it is also probably in part due to transfems being viewed as much more of a "threat" by these people and thus in their eyes "more deserving" of such horrible portrayals too though. which in a way is also kind of misogynistic towards transmascs, because "poor little misguided women couldn't hurt anything! because "women" are demure and nonthreatening and weak of course!" but simultaneously transmisogynistic because "big scary evil "men" are the real monsters and the only people capable of doing harm!" in their eyes. though, really, you could argue these are why transfems are hypervisible in the first place. transphobia most of the time really is just a big bundle of special flavors of misogyny for every possible gender! edit: sorry for the damn essay, and horribly formatted too. hope I phrased everything well enough, it's 6 am and I have barely slept the past few days!
@@MiotaLeeit makes me a bit upset to say, but it is probably because of this mindset that I've noticed in most people. If a person is transferm, that's because they want to encroach onto "woman's spaces". If a person is transmasc, that makes sense, because "who wouldn't want to be a man?" Generally, in any country with clear social structures, they tend to be patriarchal. Of course you'd want to be one the "top" of the patriarchy. "No one actually WANTS to be part of those worse off, right?" kind of thinking. That's why I think transmen are more accepted, because it's more "understandable" for a female to want to be male
7:59 as a tranmasc the top thing actually makes a lot of sense. When you haven't figured out your gender you overcompensate. I went out with a girl in high school and I told her I "wanted to be the guy in the relationship" I didn't really, I'm not very dominant, what I wanted was to be A guy in the relationship but I never realised. I did stuff like that a lot trying to be masculine. So it makes sense for an egg transguy to be a top even if he isn't usually dominant. Edit: Please do Pretty Little Liars, it doesn't have a transguy but the main villain is a transwoman and I so much wanna hear you talk about it.
back in high school, i (a trans man) was hanging out with two cis guys i was acquainted with. i remember another group passing by and calling us “two and a half men”. i’m glad this video gives me a better vibe than that
There's also an episode that shows Alan dating a transgender woman and it's weirdly.... Sweet... Like, Alan is very ignorant about the situation but he finds out after sex that she is transgender and when she says she should go home, he tells her he wants her to stay and then he asks a few things about the procedure. When he talks about being with her the next morning, he says he knows he likes her and that's all that matters. I'm not transgender, I just found the episode surprisingly sweet and really opened my eyes to the reality of how hard it must be to be transgender. Maybe you should check it out 😊
YESS THEY ARE STRANGELY WHOLESOME AND I LOVE THEM i wish more sitcoms were like this and didn’t have them like throwing up or gagging at the thought of a trans person
this show never ceases to confuse the shit out of me. of all the mid-2000s massively popular sitcoms, this is the one with gentle trans representation???
actually Laverne on Orange is the new black is a trans woman playing a trans woman. her twin brother played her in flashbacks of her being pre-transition. so it doesn't never happen it just rarely happens. it should happen more though.
that's actually such a clever way to do it. not many actors that could share a role like that, unfortunately, but its one of those excellent casting occurrences thats too good to NOT do
@@MB-og3dw its kinda like how in big bang theory and young Sheldon that Mary Cooper the mom is played by both mother and daughter in the series. so daughter pulls off a younger version of the mother quite well.
Laverne was totally on board to play the flashbacks herself, but the series creator didn't want to put her in a potentially-triggering position and insisted on hiring a male actor. When they found out she had a twin, everything just sort of fell into place.
around 4:04 i think the intended joke is that the character is ordering fancy wine, which is distinctly un-manly in traditional masculinity. I genuinely can't tell what the joke is supposed to be if it isn't that. also, the laughter in these shows is almost ALWAYS added in post, if they don't have an on-hand crew of people sitting around waiting to be told to laugh.
Two and a Half Men was actually filmed in front of a live studio audience. Of course, they had warm-up acts between the scenes and I also think they're not necessarily always filmed in the order shown in the episode, which might explain how the audience knew who Bill was. I've been part of a live studio audience before, although not for a sitcom, and the atmosphere is kind of infectious. You tend to end up laughing when everyone else does whether you got the joke or not.
@@mothturtle7897 producers counting on the fact the audience will laugh when others do, which is why cue cards are held up and why “laughers” are placed in audience
I also just don't think it's that kind of bar. You can see in later shots that he's drinking a beer, so I'm guessing the bartender just handed him a beer without comment.
to give full benefit of the doubt that it wasn't just inserted laughter, the studio audience could have already learned from a previous take of the scene
Yeah. It depends if you can predict that the 'joke' will be that Bill is Jill. After all, a lot of attention is drawn to him with the camera work, and there's not much reason to introduce him unless he's the one that Charlie is waiting for. But then, I'm also watching a video called "The Trans Two and a Half Men Episode," so I obviously have a bias.
Also, just a flag, but as a trans man, i struggle with the idea that erasure is in any way a benefit. We are facing many of the same problems trans women are, and although it's true that erasure sometimes protects us from being recognized by people looking to do targeted violence, we're still in an extremely high risk group for rape and sexual assult, domestic violence, family rejection, health care and job discrimination. Often when trans men talk about the problems that affect us, people use our privilege as men to shut down conversations about our needs as trans people. As trans men, we have a difficult time in all spaces but that difficulty is systemically unacknowledged. Erasure doesn't feel like an advantage, it feels like a different way transphobia shows up. Love and solidarity to all trans people. I hope you're heard, acknowledged, loved, and embraced.
And when once in a blue moon, people (mainly cis people) speak of us, they have no nuance or intersectionality to bring to the conversation around trans masc people. Mainly just stereotypes (or blatantly false statements) or, if they’re trying to be an ally, will just be nice enough to say “people who get pregnant.” which gets more backlash unfortunately.
yeah the only "benefit" we get from erasure is that it makes it easier for us to fly under the radar and be full-stealth if we pass decently well. and "less likely to get clocked as trans" is not really much of a benefit compared to everything weighing down the other side of the scale. i grew up in the 90s and while there was a general awareness that trans women existed, like i was passingly familiar with the idea of "a woman trapped in a man's body", the reverse was not even something that occurred to me. because the only places I ever saw anything even remotely similar to that were the tropes where a girl disguises herself as a boy for Reasons and then once everyone knows she's a girl nobody acknowledges her as a boy ever again. so the idea that a girl could dress as a boy and want to be a boy and _keep_ dressing & wanting to be a boy even after people found out she was a girl, that was not a concept that existed for me. since the concept didn't exist, it wasn't there for me to realize that it could apply to _me._ and because of that, I didn't realize I was trans until I was 20, when I finally discovered the existence of trans men and went "oh. that's me. that's what all those weird feelings have been this whole time." whereas trans women will often say that they knew they were trans from a young age, experiences like mine are more common to trans men (maybe less so the younger generations, i hope), simply because we don't realize that option is there. we're told we're tomboys and go "oh, okay," because no other alternative is presented. that's what erasure does for us. that's the impact of having no representation in media. it makes us invisible even to ourselves.
I think one implicit thing with including a trans man is the fact this show is a lot about men. The fact that Bill is just treated like a homie, really just makes it feel like it was 3½ men and Evelyn being queen
as a trans masculine person in a weird way i'm really appreciative of there being at least one visible trans man in an admittedly garbage sitcom, and in a relatively positive way. and i also feel really happy that you specifically made note to talk about us for this video, thank you
I was so surprised when you said the trans person in the episode was a trans man! As a trans dude myself, I'm always looking for trans characters, especially trans masc characters. I love getting some representations since it's kinda hard for me to actually get in contact with the trans community irl. I hope you cover some more trans masc characters in the future :D!
The fact that the Bill character, aside from some stereotypical feminine traits behaves appropriately as just one of the guys without going full ham. I also enjoyed that the reunion was of two people who really cared for each other and not some twisted "gender clisure" as many cis writers do.
Damn I'm actually impressed at this episode. Happy to see trans men represented. It isnt perfect but tbh it speaks to our experiences, which arent perfect either
As for the studio audience's Transdar: chances they've already seen the scene. They have to do multiple takes so they've had the episode spoiled multiple times because they're watching it being filmed
when i was in high school some of my friends were in a band and the band consisted of two cis men and a trans man. they called their band "two and a half men" which is one of the funniest band names i have ever heard of in my life edit: also, no, for anyone wondering, this isn't some off-color transphobic joke, it's just a thing that was around in my life when i was younger. edit 2: i somehow accidentally typed "trans woman" which was the opposite of what i meant. sorry.
I want to know who Bill's surgeon was. A phalloplasty can leave tell-tale scars from the donor skin site. Not to mention the talent of crafting the phallus. It's pro-trans writing that nothing gave it away to her before Bill told her. ❤
i’m a trans man and i had to pause this video multiple times to text my best friend who is also trans and tell him about this episodes plot. i was losing my damn mind. i think it rules personally.
Decent trans representation was NOT what I would have expected from Two and a Half Men! As a trans guy, it's nice to see decent representation in an old sitcom, especially one I would have expected the opposite from.
Here in Brazil there was a famous novela (soap opera) back in 2017 that featured a recurring character who was a trans man, it was called A Força do Querer (The Power of Will, in a literal translation) and the character was called Ivan. Another novela featured a trans guy called Catatau but I don't remember this one much.
As a cis man, I enjoy watching these videos to see how much worse I could be. Like, I get mad at myself if I accidentally misgender someone, but people like Ben Shapiro actually exist, so I’m doing pretty good
Is he actually a well known ally? I don’t really know much about him, like I said, so I honestly have no idea. I don’t mean to sound like a bigot, so if he is I’ll change my comment to say Ben Shapiro or something
@@Almost_Awesomeyears ago he did an episode of Family guy where Quagmire’s dad comes out as a trans woman and Brian sleeps with her (not knowing that she’s trans) and then Brian dramatically vomits when he finds out, but tbh I always more interpreted his vomiting as being more due to the fact that it’s Quagmires father rather than just a trans woman. I think Seth has brown from that though since there is an episode a few seasons later where Brian decides to actually date Ida for a while, and they only break up because Quagmire gets uncomfortable with Brain taking on a step-father role in his life.
Love how I can get to learn about episodes like these that were made while I was just a child. It's nice to see the better depictions of trans people in shows I wouldn't really expect it from.
Lily, when they tape a sitcom like this, they give a brief synopsis to the audience. They've let the audience in on the fact that the Bill (played by Chris O'Donnell) used to be Jill, Charlie's ex-lover. Between segments, there is a stand-up comedian telling them jokes. I've been to two tapings... not of this show... and I bet that's what happened here.
Lily is one of those people on the internet that I, despite my hatred for parasocial relationships, have a platonic version of a celebrity crush on. Lily exists in the same place in my brain that Jarvis Johnson does. Just, I wish we could be besties.
As a trans man, its nice to see rep for people like me. Its so uncommon to see, especially in a relatively decent way. I wouldnt have expected this from two and a half men tbh
I find your videos very educational on how to conduct myself better when interacting with trans people. I have learned much about the trans experience from you. Thank you.
I love to see comments like this- really shows that Lily's work can make an impact. Tylersmith7752, kudos to you for being educible and caring about how to interact with people who are different from you- it may seem like a low bar, but so many fail to clear it, I'm grateful for every person who does.
The laughs when Bill enters is possibly not because they were told in advance what was going on, but rather that since Chris O'Donnell is a super-famous actor who they all recognized immediately, and figured out the twist right away.
I thank you for acknowledging that trans men are so often overlooked! Representation for us is very scarce, and it’s always a treat when we do show up in things (granted, with some modicum of compassion). My favourite trans man in fiction is King Oryx from Destiny. I admit I haven’t played the game myself, but I love him because he’s just so awesome. Though Nero from Devil May Cry always felt very trans to me.
My now spouse watched this as a teenager while we were dating, but I didnt really watch it, because we were, um, busy. Now, 13 years later, I have since come out as a trans man, and am still with the same boyfriend. I was really worried about this episode, but it was better than I thought! The jokes a little rough, but overall pretty wholesome all things considered. Nice. : )
I've been hoping you'd analyse Glee. Its easy to forget now what a massive impact it had culturally and for me at least it was the first time I saw any LBGT representation on screen. There were 2 trans characters in later seasons.
He was interested in the feminine-presenting Bill. It doesn't mean that Bill's ex is gay or even bisexual as he had no idea Bill was actually a dude the whole time and he clearly lost that romantic feeling or is ashamed to admit he still loves Bill. For example, I'm a transgender lesbian and if I actually ended up dating a closeted trans man but still retained some love for them, I'd still be a lesbian because I identify as a lesbian. Basically, if there was a straight woman was dating a closeted woman and later found out that this ex was someone who identified as a woman then the straight woman is still a straight if they continue to identify as on. Your exes do not define who you are as an individual. Only you can!
Imo, they don’t even have to be an ex. A relative of mine identifies as a lesbian and has been with her partner for several years (I don’t remember if they are married or not). After a while of them being together, her partner transitioned and is a trans man. They are still together, but my cis relative still considers herself a lesbian. Her connection to her partner as a person and her sexual orientation don’t completely line up, but that’s okay. Life can be messier than the labels, so the label that makes the most sense and feels right.
It kinda reminds me of that tweet of a gay guy who kissed a lesbian thinking she was a twink, while the lesbian thought he was a butch asagjsjshsls Love and attraction and labels and folks are much more complicated than what meets the eye, but it's the stuff that spices life up :)
yeah, i’d say as long as you recognize the actual gender identity of those individuals and aren’t trying to invalidate that or imply that they “basically count” as what would be expected to fall under your label’s umbrella of attraction, it’s fine to identify with whatever label you feel fits you best or most comfortably while acknowledging that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a perfect fit to the messier actualities of life
I'm obsessed with you referring to him as "Bill's ex" despite the fact that I think this the only episode Bill appears in and Charlie is not only a main character but also is just the name of his (infamous) actor
As a trans masc person I appreciate that (even though it was a joke) Bill was shown to have feminine mannerisms. I remember when I came out many people didn't believe it because I still had fem tendencies. What people might not understand is just because you're now a 'man' (loose quotes since I myself am non-binary) that means you've never experienced sexist notions that told you that as a girl you had to be feminine and pretty. To avoid rambling and no longer making sense I'll sum it up as "Yes trans men can act girly. We were told it was the best way to be as children."
I like how it's shown as a positive too since it's something that Evelyn lists as an attractive quality. It reflects reality because I personally do find myself committing the occasional social faux pas around my cis friends because I wasn't raised to be as repressive of my emotions and muted in my affection for others as they were.
The wine thing is a joke from the era (This was before wine-culture had really kicked off super hard in the US) that white wine is a woman's drink and/or a gay mans drink, especially if ordered from a bar
i feel like it would be fun to have a video where you put all trans episodes you've reviewed so far into a tier list based on how good they are, might be fun, could be a good stream concept if you ever wanted to do a stream someday
lily: this one's going to be pretty different me: lmao does it have a trans man lily: it centers around a trans man me: :O! also, im sorry, but "good luck with the penis" was funny. reminds me of "enjoy your gender".
It makes me happy to see that my memory wasn't misplaced! Of course, some jokes aren't gonna be great, but the fact the subject itself was handled pretty well is so nice to see.
I've been rewatching the original Will & Grace and they had a gross episode where a trans person was made fun of. It's pretty bad and I'd def put it on your list.
Grew up with other family members watching this show constantly. Safe to say I’m excited for this one 😮 Edit: after watching the video, I am pleasantly surprised by their approach in this ep!! Absolutely not perfect especially with the jokes but to see this from 2 and a half men of all places is a surprise
I WAS THINKING ABOUT THIS EPISODE FOR 2 WEEKS. I WAS THINKING ABOUT HOW THIS EPISODE WAS NEVER COVERED. I EVEN SHOWED THIS TO A FRIEND SO I HAVE SOMEONE TO TALK ABOUT IT WITH
OH I've been WAITING for this one. I watched this show a lot when I was little because of limited availability of sitcoms and I sort of liked it, though it's definitely not my thing now. Years after I came out as a trans guy, I checked and this was one of the very few trans man references in sitcomes there were out there - and I was ready to get so let down, however... It was a lot better than I had expected. PS: I like the 'both wanted to be the top' bit because these days everyone expects the trans guy to be the bottom which is a very dangerous thought, especially because of chasers lol
I never really thought about it, but this show really did handle it well, especially for the type of show it is, and the time it aired. Despite characters having some trouble getting to the point of being OK with it, in the end they are trying to be supportive and do what they think is best for Bill.
personally i think it's really obvious she was fainting in response to finding out Bill and Charlie used to date. they made the body language very blatant, with her pointing between Bill and then Charlie before fainting. that simply doesn't make sense as a reaction to her hearing that Bill is trans.
I know nothing about this show other than I saw one episode of this show mid-puberty and I thought that one of the guys was hot. And I have genuinely no idea which one, because neither of them are really that hot. So thats. A fact about my life I guess.
the scene where evelyn is fully supportive of bill's gender identity but faints at the reveal that he's one of charlie's exes is a great example of doing a trans joke without just making fun of trans people
Honestly I can see the name Bill, I think it adds to the character, especially since it’s short for William so there’s a ton you can do with the name & it suggests he might’ve chosen a flexible name that you can still shorten to something familiar to the people who knew him before he came out
I knew it was coming. Just a moment please while I prepare myself for the misogyny.... Okay on with the video. Edits: 1) okay, it's the trans man one. Cool. 2) I always wanted the nickname Tony when I thought of myself as a cis dude. I chose Toni when I came out so I'm pretty alright with Bill choosing a name that sounded similar to his deadname by default. 3) I did notice the actor playing Bill playing him in a feminine way. While it's perfectly valid to be a feminine man regardless of whether or not you're trans most trans dudes I know are anything but. 4) I can read lips. Before she fainted she said "you & Charlie?" That's the part she was shocked by. Go Evelyn!
Because the show had a lot of 00's conceptions of masculinity, where being a man had to be on a certain way. But Bill now it's kind of a possitive representation of masculinity for both trans and cis men
sort of relatable I've renamed myself twice (once because I just hate my birth name & this one because I recently learned I'm trans) so now I have 3 names & all of them start with the letter "T" just so I can keep my initials
to be fair most trans men are hypermasculine early transition because they’re overcompensating. but i think generally once they become comfortable with themselves they start to let their more feminine traits come out a bit. i say this as a trans man myself. i think bill is a very convincing trans man if you consider how confident he seems.
Always lovely to hear from you, Lily, I‘ve been following you for a few months now and always love and enjoy your content! I absolutely never cared for Two and a Half Men, but watched this episode just recently (after hearing about it in a queer podcast) and was very, very pleasantly surprised. That it featured a trans MAN?! And - after watching your channel for a while now - seeing how the bar for trans representation at that time was basically the floor, it was better than like ~95% of sitcoms at that time? Actually at times kinda sweet and sometimes kinda funny (still often very yikes-y, cringey and stereotypical, but in the end rather positive)? And that 2004? And of all shows THIS?! I find it also fascinating that by using a trans man instead of a trans woman in this storyline, it kinda subverts commonly used tropes we’ve seen in all these other shows and movies, like: Normally we get presented a straight male character who flips out when he discovers he dated and/or slept with a trans woman and then wonders if he’s now gay (because he and the show see her as “actually a man” *hard eye roll*), but here we have a straight male character wondering if he’s gay because he dated and slept with a trans man, confirmed to us, the audience, that these characters and the show do see and accept Bill as the man he is. Another similar thing I noticed: Normally, with not-so-great trans women representation, we always get this "look, you can cleeaarly see she 'used to be a man' / 'is actually a man'" trope, where characters point out (in a very negative way) things like “she has so broad shoulders”, “she behaves so aggressive”, “she displays [another typical masculine attribute/behaviour]”; here characters like Berta, Charlie, and Alan always point out how Bill pre-transition “used to be such a slop, was messy, always wanted to top, was always tall and broad-shouldered etc”. So they use here these stereotypes around men to I guess show us that Bill “was always a man”, and not like other TV series do to say “haha, look, they are still their agab”. I mean, the show’s still full of clichés, gender stereotypes and toxic masculinity, but making the main conflict here Evelyn’s bf being her son’s ex and not him being trans, was a clever move and ended in a relatively positive storyline, especially for its time. (Also, I can’t believe I would ever say this, but some of Charlie’s lines gave me a chuckle, e.g. “No, listen, fella, I don't know what they told you in orientation…”).
26:26 yeah what I mainly remember is Charlie being really upset about him **sleeping with his mom** And also one of the running jokes is that him and Allan don’t like to hear about their mothers sex life
I’ve been waiting for you to talk about this episode since finding your channel. For a show like two and a half men, and for it being in the mid 2000’s, it surprisingly handles a trans character decently.
I wish that so many other youtubers hadn't covered the whole Star Trek thing, because I would love to hear Lily's take on it, from Soren to Jadzia to the two characters in Discovery
I think a possible explanation for the laughter when they supposedly don’t get the joke, is that they do several takes in one day with the same studio audience. So they’d be rewatching with the added context. Either way, even if it’s edited or not, it’s very indicative of a wider issue in society.
Not exactly a sitcom, but the show Shameless has had a few instances of trans representation (I started watching pretty late and haven't gotten through all of it). As of where I'm at in my watch through there's a recurring trans man character who is pretty well represented imo. Earlier on in the series there was a questionable example of a character who may have been a trans girl but it wasn't entirely clear (utilizing the uhhhh problematic trope of "A mom who has some kind of issues with men deciding to raise her child as a girl despite said child having been assigned male at birth").
i actually really like the Jill/Bill joke cuz when i was a kid i was like “if i was a girl i wouldn’t be (femme equivalent of my deadname) id be (name that sounds like my deadname)” what is funny is the pet name form of my deadname (that was used) is gender neutral(in a semi feminine spelling)
I’ve seen almost every episode of this show because I lived with my grandpa for a few years and he watched it all the time. I was hoping someone would talk about it omg
even before the part where evelyn stood up and said "mommy's got a date", i feel like it was pretty obvious which part of bill's confession she fainted at. the way she gestures towards charlie implies that bill told her they used to be together, and the reaction plays out as expected.
Another great video! I'm a cis guy and your content has been, in addition to very entertaining, really insightful and I think it's important to analyze media from a trans perspective. So thanks for making this stuff, and I look forward to seeing what show you cover next!
This episode of two and a half men was the first time I had seen a trans character depicted (if you don't count whatever Pleakley had going on from Lilo and Stitch). Considering how many examples of really negative trans representation there were from that era, I'm glad the first one I stumbled upon was relatively positive.
Hi Lily!!! Love your analisys!! I used to watch this show so much as a kid and seeing it now as a trans girl is very weird. Btw will the South Park Trans episode analisys ever come out? 👀 looking forward to it. Hope you have a great day ❤
Oof. Two and a Half Men. Literally the first ever show I liked as a kid for being edgy, only to get really uncomfortable when I realized how mean spirited and almost nihilistic it was What really did it was Charlie Sheen being replaced by Ashton Kusher. At least with the brothers there was a sense of family. After Ashton comes on, EVERY episode becomes how pathetic and miserable Allen is, and the fact that he could be kicked out or die at any time and no one would care becomes the main driving force of the series. His much more liked brother already was replaced. His life does not matter
@TheresaBaker420 maybe solipistic is a better word The last 4 seasons really became just an exercise in misery. Like, none of the characters were worth caring about. They probably wouldn't have happy endings, I guess we were just supposed to watch them continue to torture each other There's just nothing left from the first few seasons to keep you there by the end. I'm not going to say it's the worst thing ever, but it drifted further then basically any other show. They literally replaced one and one half of the men from the title!
Ok, but the "store bought balls" phrase got me, as a trans masc, I'm keeping it
Charlie had brilliant dialogue
yea some of the Jokes really fit and I would love to use that at some point. in the right situation
@@Stafarns"if you don't have home grown, store bought is fine"
The way it falls off the tongue yeah it's so fun to say
i'm stealing it like a pair of balls
As a trans guy I’m definitely adding “Please you couldn’t beat me when I was a girl” onto my joke list.
same
Bro I have straight up said this to my cousin when he was being a jerk. Homie would scream cry when I pinned him at 13
i can see it is a joke but it is embracing misogynistic arguments and maybe (specially because you are a man) it shouldbe avoided
fair but when you take T you usually get some muscle
@@galaxychill9578yeah, that one is still largely biochemical.
"Good luck with penis" is just an inherently funny statement
i cracked up
It's surprising that a show where one of the protagonists is THE representation of toxic masculinity, has less misoginy and is more trans possitive than a show about a group of nerds, and that the character isn't such a big asshole with his trans friend and even is kind of chill about it eventually
that's kind of an interesting element of Charlie's character
in fact despite being this depiction of masculinity Charlie himself has a lot of feminine traits that he totally owns & is secure with
Kinda like how it's surprising that a show about a conservative who is fine with doing and seeing the same things every day (King of the Hill) was understanding and even defending of a closeted gay father, his partner, and drag queens, while Family Guy and the Simpsons as well as Futarama which are seen as more liberal leaning shows had absolutely dehumanizing and cruel depictions of trans women.
@@blueizumiking of the hill has always been pretty progressive tbh hank might be conservative but he always tries to understand things the only exception might be with how he treats bobby
Let us be perfectly clear on something: Two and a half men did have a loooooot of misogyny.
@@Iotuseater honestly yeah older I get the more I realize how progressive king of the hill surprisingly is
I don't like that Bill being effeminate at times is supposed to be a joke, but as a teen I used to have a preconceived notion that, to "justify" transitioning, trans men had to be the butchest of the butch afab people possible, so seeing that a trans man could 1) look exactly like a cis man and 2) still have feminine mannerisms and interests would have done me a lot of good, I think
fucking big mood right here omfg… I’m a feminine transmasc enby and it took me until I was 24 to finally come out to my mother and people around me, and 27 (last year) to feel comfy enough to actively seek testosterone (I got my first shot at the beginning of the month, yay!) and be more open IRL, all because I internalised that “you aren’t ACTUALLY a trans man if you’re fem in any way” bullshit for a LOOONG time and needed to work through it before I could medically transition properly.
Agreed, we're different than cis folks and assimilation need not be the goal. Fug the binary
@@MeidoGhoul I was best friends with a trans man for about six years before I even considered that I might be trans myself. He's a super masc rugged mountain man who knew he wanted to be a boy since he was five, and I am absolutely not that lmao. It took until I was 24 before I discovered that fem trans guys exist, and that's when everything finally started to fall into place.
Just to be clear, my friend has been my biggest supporter since day one and NEVER tried to gatekeep me. I just only had one blueprint for what transmasculinity looked like, and since my experiences were so different from his, I just assumed that my issues were caused by something else. Representation matters, folks.
@@MeidoGhoul hello! as a pre-HRT 28-year-old transmasc enby myself, this comment alone is genuinely validtating to me and is doing a lot to dissuade my fears on starting T. thank you
My roommate is a transgender guy, and we used to work at the same store. He’s not *open*, but he’s nearly 40 and beyond giving a shit if someone at work knows.
A co-worker that knows I’m queer came up to me and asked me how long I’d known my roommate was trans. We’d all worked together for four or five years at that point. I was caught off-guard, because holy shit why wouldn’t you be, and I asked if my roommate had told him so.
“No, I figured it out.”
“….how?” My roommate passes pretty well. (And he grew a better beard than this cis coworker.)
“He has a feminine walk.”
At this point, I burst out laughing. “My dude, you have the swishiest walk I’ve ever seen on *anyone*.” I’m a cis woman, and this cishet guy walked with more sway than I did.
(When I told my roommate, he died and said “Has he ever seen himself walk?”)
My roommate had the same notion that you did (he mentioned it before when we were talking) so it made the whole co-worker interaction even funnier.
Edit: I reminded him of this the other day and he cackled. Still funny.
22:00 The pointing at her SON before fainting absolutely FULLY strikes me as her being shocked by the revelation that the guy she’s seeing has been with her son as well. 2000s sitcoms of this nature are not exactly known for being subtle - I think that if she was shocked by him being trans, they would have had her point at his damn crotch or something and do a double take
I agree, Evelyn didn't care that Bill was Trans, she was more creeped out that he had slept with her son prior to his transition. It's actually nuanced for a sitcom, and Charlie eventually gets around to addressing Bill by his proper name and pronouns.
@@trinaqdid not think I’d hear two and half men get called “nuanced,” in the year 2024, but here we are
in the balcony scene, i appreciate that they made a point of showing eveline pointing to bill and then charlie before fainting, making it pretty clear that bill having dated her son is what made her faint. and i may not be particularly good at reading lips but it did seem like she was saying "you? and...." and then pointed at charlie
yeah to me it seems pretty clear that that's the part that made her faint, like they telegraphed it _really_ blatantly just to make sure you could tell what she was reacting to.
Yeah I don't even know how you could take it another way
Especially since the following scene Evelyn is pretty happy to date bill.
I'm pretty good at reading lips. That's definitely what she said.
I love that little joke: "Please, you couldn't beat me when I was a girl." It's the kind of cutesy joke that only works from a trans person, but also doesn't disrespect their current identity. A lot of the other jokes from this episode were kinda yikes-y, tho. The jokes revolving around the idea of "I don't care that he's trans, I care that he [knows my sexual preferences|is dating my mom]" are okay, but the "Haha, isn't it funny that you dated a girl who transitioned" suck majorly.
As a trans guy I get a lot of joy out of saying, "When I was a little girl-" it gets Some Stares and it tickles me every time.
The jokes are cringe, but they are mostly directed at cis-het fragility. I can't comment to the accuracy of the trans-masc experience, But Bill seemed to be played as a sympathetic character with a well cultivated and respected masculinity, and an over all decent guy. As far as trans rep in casual media, I'd say that's more than fair.
@@nsullivan9096
if I passed I'd steal that joke 😭
@@TheresaBaker420 Go for it anyways. Make them wonder what you could possibly mean. It's a delightful feeling.
I do still get misgendered, I dont 100% 'pass' in all circles, and the joke still brings me joy.
I haven’t seen the full episode but I agree. But on a lighter note, the mom not caring about Bill being trans was really nice. When I realized I was a trans guy I sort of felt like I had to come to terms that no girl would ever like me because I was trans. Obviously that isn’t true but seeing that feels like it sort of mended a wound in my heart from my baby trans days. (Especially because trans guys barely get any rep in media.)
It’s kinda sad how thrilled I was to hear that the episode featured a trans man. So much representation, both the positive and overwhelming negative, is focused on trans women, and it feels like a breath of fresh air to finally see trans men acknowledged
honestly as soon as she said the premise I was shocked because like you said- trans masc people (binary trans men in this case) get very limited representation whether it be good or bad.
The only other trans men I’ve seen on tv are Barney from Dead End and Theo from the Sabrina reboot (although he’s not out in season one)
@@thegayghost872 There's a trans man in The Dragon Prince I believe (Which is a great show! Highly recommend). He appears in one of the later seasons
I'd argue that most "representation" of us trans women is so openly negative and hostile to us that it is actively and wholly detrimental to our portion of the community. I too enjoy seeing more trans men represented in media, as it's terrible how invisible they are. But I hate seeing that framed as if the endless sea of bigotry and hatred directed at us trans women in media is somehow a good or enviable thing, or as if "trans women get enough attention" when all that attention is hateful and negative. Or worse, that we should be thankful for it. We aren't. We don't get "representation", we get mocked.
@@idklol-cw5flof course indie games/indie projects in general have more transmasc rep, it’s the fact that mainstream media tends to avoid acknowledging our existence that’s an issue. Transmascs speaking about their issues in no way downplays trans women’s experiences, we can literally coexist and advocate for each other? And there’s a lot of really solid trans women representation nowadays too, especially from smaller indie projects but also great shows like Pose. Of course being represented as a predator sucks and is a major issue, but that can be discussed on literally any other video talking about transfem representation. I mean, it’s pretty ironic to complain about downplaying transfem issues on one of the only episodes on this channel talking about a transmasc character.
thank you so much! as a transgender man, i'm so glad to hear someone so eloquent and skilled speak about my side of the community :]
Is this the first episode she's covered about a transmasc person? I'm not sure, but I think it might be. Probably because most transphobic shows will tend to target transfems more.
@@samlewis6487 I believe i've watched every ep in this series and yes I am 99% sure this is the first transmasc episodes.
Most shows in general seem to target transfems/trans women more, not all ofc, but most.
@@samlewis6487 i think so, yes. two and a half men talked about transmen rather tastefully, and as a bi transguy, i thoroughly enjoyed the homoerotic undertone between charlie and bill :)
I'd love to see an episode on Degrassi, tbh. That was definitely my first exposure to the reality that trans men exist. Although that's A LOT of mediocre TV to watch.
@@samlewis6487 It's not that transphobic shows target transfems more, that's an incredibly frustrating misconception. It's a combination of the complete ERASURE of trans men, and that the type of transphobia aimed at trans men often takes a very different form, including the "lesbianification" of trans masculine individuals. Usually trans men are treated like they're wayward butches who are playacting at masculine identity. Or they get treated like their gender identity is just "confusion" and that they need a cis man to f%ck the "feminine woman" back into them, to really show them their "place".
And then you get the rare times that trans men are actually represented in media, and they're almost always portrayed insensitively. They're treated as either a totally unimportant and completely asexual and non-threatening-to-cis-male-masculinity bit character on the sidelines, a character meant to be there almost solely for trans brownie points like the character in "Shameless" (who was one of the most positive romantic relationships that one of the main characters had, but anyone with even a passing knowledge of trans characters in media knew IMMEDIATELY that he would never be "endgame" because god forbid a gay cis man end up with a trans guy instead of his shitty on-again-off-again cis male ex, and of course despite the trans male character being popular and cute and even played by a trans male actor, he was written off sloppily from the show and just kind of made to "disappear" in favor of the aforementioned shitty cis male ex), or they’re so painfully insensitive that it makes you wonder why none of the supposedly progressive show runers/actors/staff stood back and went "yikes", like the ratty, pubic-hair-gathered-from-the-bathroom-floor-and-glued-to-the-actress's-chin transphobic caricature of a trans man played by Tatiana Moseley in "Orphan Black".
OR they manage to be a completely offensive and bigoted example of trans men in a series that is otherwise known for being nuanced and sensitive in it's portrayals of trans feminine characters, like the manga "Wandering Son" that follows a trans girl and trans boy, and the trans boy is the ONLY trans masc portrayal in the manga and he decides randomly to stop being trans masculine after some friends tell him he looks so much cuter as a girl, or the only notable trans masculine character in "Transparent" (a series filled with mostly nuanced and decent portrayals of trans women at different stages of their lives), who is there only to be sexually humiliated with a "prosthetic failure" that gets treated like it's a complete sex-ending disaster instead of a two second fix, and to prove to the audience that trans men could never be sexually satisfying to cis women who are attracted to "traditional" (aka cis) men.
So again, while trans masculine characters don't have the same easily identifiable one specific transphobic trope like the "tricking straight men" trope that trans feminine characters often fall into, this does NOT translate into a lack of insensitive, gross and transphobic representation for trans men/trans masc folk, and trans men are not less targeted than trans women--and in the rare cases that they are "less targeted" in some sense, it's almost always because of transphobia, where trans men are treated like confused delusional women to be pitied and ignored.
Transphobes do not treat trans men with any less contempt than they do trans women, the tranphobia just takes a different form that isn't as talked about or acknowledged even by so called "allies" of the trans community.
I fully expected a name change to Jack so Bill caught me off guard
I was literally thinking Jack would've been funnier 😭
@@Mskittenlover12In fairness I went to school with a trans person whose chosen name rhymed with their deadname, so this is something that happens.
Now we need a Jessie and Bill show
i was thinking he was going to pick something like john because jack would be too obvious, i didn't even think of bill
Holy shit. A show that ACKNOWLEDGES trans men exist!!
Yeah, sadly it's pretty common for shows to, intentionally or not, equate being trans inherently with drag queens and gay male culture, which leads to only AMAB people being depicted as trans. Which is bad, obviously, because it inherently links back to saying that trans women are just men. Which is bad, onviously.
It wasn't done at all respectfully, but Family Guy had an episode set in the future where Meg had transitioned and was now a guy called Ron.
@@Kintsugi23 i remember that episode. that has never been brought up again has it?
*le gasp* WAAAAHT!!?
@@Kintsugi23Whaaat?? That sounds awesome except of *course* it's just a one-off "joke", huh. ):
I'm stunned that Two And A Half Men actually did a representation okay-ish. I don't remember it being emotionally intelligent enough for that.
Agreed, used to watch the show when I was younger and boy was I scared that this would be a much more problematic episode
I watched that episode after watching this and holy shit, its uncanny how okey-isch and sometimes even respectable this episode was, sure they did alot of trans jokes and other shit that wasnt okey, but Chralie starting to accept Bill as Bill and the Mom just being okey with dating Bill, just hating the fact that he used to be Charlies ex. The most transphobic people in the episode where Alan and Berta the Housekeeper.
Especially a season one episode which is like 2004. There is a much larger episode with a trans female character too
I remember seeing this episode as a kid, I think the subversion of the issue being that bill slept with both Charlie and his mom was the biggest premise of the joke, bill being trans as a plot catalyst is kind of good in that it isn't used as the punchline, but a subversion to the real punchline, it normalized it in a roundabout way
Season 11 had a decent premise where Alan was dating a trans woman, at first the idea baffled him but he quickly opened up to it with his niece Jenny even being happy with him that he’s open to it
I'm a cis woman . I'm bisexual with a large preference for feminine presenting people. And I recently looked up some of my male exes and 90% are now trans woman.
You've got an aura that transes people's gender
I like too see it as I'm more lesbian than bi and can tell they are woman from somewhere deep down inside before even they do lol.
As a trans woman I had more than one closeted lesbian ask me out years before I figured myself out 😂
you have a transgenderification beam in your garage, don’t you?
Are you the gay agenda?
I find it funny that Bill went home with Charlie as a friend, and then just wandered off to sex his mom. Like. Power move, honestly. Good for him, leave your shitty transphobic friends and go sleep with their moms.
UA-cam says I'm not allowed to say "f*ck his mom" or any variation thereof, so I had to work around it.
@@samlewis6487
I love how youtube has become a hollow empty shell of it's former self where u can barely say anything anymore 😭
@TheresaBaker420 It basically said "yeah you CAN say this but out auto flag bots will ban you because we think it's hate speech"
It would have been a power move if it could have happened in reality. It's absolutely fantastic🪝
I'll be honest if they really "have to" use a cis actor, I like it when its someone of the correct gender because it stops all the confusing 'woman pretending to be a man' stuff getting confused with trans men's actual identities. (I'm trans masc enby)
Yeah I saw this in Lily's video on It's Always Sunny. It makes sense.
Yeah tbh if we have to have cis actors playing trans characters, then at least have cis guys play trans guys and vice versa.
Like Chandler Bing's dad!
Also Chris O'Donnell was/is pretty widely considered a heartthrob so I'm absolutely not complaining, definitely a huge upgrade from the many cis women with short haircuts that they usually had playing trans men.
to be fair, one of the main tenets of acting is learning to portray someone completely different to yourself, nick offerman for example, is very dissimilar to ron swanson, but he sells the character believably. Actors are very familiar with how people act with mannerisms/speech/etc and the actor did a perfectly fine job for a sitcom
as a trans man, it surprises me how little rep we have in media. thank you for breaking down this ep
Is it just me or are the trans men that do show up often more accepted? Like, I don't think I've seen any "cascading vomit" scenes related to the trans male experience.
@@MiotaLeehonestly, that could be in part due to the fact we're widely forgotten, most extremely transphobic people are, obviously, very ignorant and unintelligent about trans people as a whole. and if you barely know shit about us because you hate us, chances are you're only going to really be aware trans women and transfems exist because of their hypervisibility as the almost exclusive targets of many transphobes. and people who know more about trans people, and thus hopefully are likely to be less transphobic and more educated, will know there's all kinds of different trans identities out there and would probably be more willing to make at the very least okay representation.
however it is also probably in part due to transfems being viewed as much more of a "threat" by these people and thus in their eyes "more deserving" of such horrible portrayals too though. which in a way is also kind of misogynistic towards transmascs, because "poor little misguided women couldn't hurt anything! because "women" are demure and nonthreatening and weak of course!" but simultaneously transmisogynistic because "big scary evil "men" are the real monsters and the only people capable of doing harm!" in their eyes. though, really, you could argue these are why transfems are hypervisible in the first place. transphobia most of the time really is just a big bundle of special flavors of misogyny for every possible gender!
edit: sorry for the damn essay, and horribly formatted too. hope I phrased everything well enough, it's 6 am and I have barely slept the past few days!
@@MiotaLeeit makes me a bit upset to say, but it is probably because of this mindset that I've noticed in most people.
If a person is transferm, that's because they want to encroach onto "woman's spaces".
If a person is transmasc, that makes sense, because "who wouldn't want to be a man?"
Generally, in any country with clear social structures, they tend to be patriarchal. Of course you'd want to be one the "top" of the patriarchy. "No one actually WANTS to be part of those worse off, right?" kind of thinking.
That's why I think transmen are more accepted, because it's more "understandable" for a female to want to be male
7:59 as a tranmasc the top thing actually makes a lot of sense. When you haven't figured out your gender you overcompensate. I went out with a girl in high school and I told her I "wanted to be the guy in the relationship" I didn't really, I'm not very dominant, what I wanted was to be A guy in the relationship but I never realised. I did stuff like that a lot trying to be masculine. So it makes sense for an egg transguy to be a top even if he isn't usually dominant.
Edit: Please do Pretty Little Liars, it doesn't have a transguy but the main villain is a transwoman and I so much wanna hear you talk about it.
That joke honestly did get me, I used to love pegging guys before I transitioned lmao
back in high school, i (a trans man) was hanging out with two cis guys i was acquainted with. i remember another group passing by and calling us “two and a half men”. i’m glad this video gives me a better vibe than that
There's also an episode that shows Alan dating a transgender woman and it's weirdly.... Sweet... Like, Alan is very ignorant about the situation but he finds out after sex that she is transgender and when she says she should go home, he tells her he wants her to stay and then he asks a few things about the procedure. When he talks about being with her the next morning, he says he knows he likes her and that's all that matters.
I'm not transgender, I just found the episode surprisingly sweet and really opened my eyes to the reality of how hard it must be to be transgender. Maybe you should check it out 😊
YESS THEY ARE STRANGELY WHOLESOME AND I LOVE THEM i wish more sitcoms were like this and didn’t have them like throwing up or gagging at the thought of a trans person
this show never ceases to confuse the shit out of me. of all the mid-2000s massively popular sitcoms, this is the one with gentle trans representation???
I NEVER expected the Charlie and what's his face's mom from Two and a Half Men to say "trans rights" and yet here we are
actually Laverne on Orange is the new black is a trans woman playing a trans woman. her twin brother played her in flashbacks of her being pre-transition. so it doesn't never happen it just rarely happens. it should happen more though.
I didn’t know Laverne had a twin. That’s a cool way of doing that
@@morganmightbeok...I know right? I was surprised to find that out myself
that's actually such a clever way to do it. not many actors that could share a role like that, unfortunately, but its one of those excellent casting occurrences thats too good to NOT do
@@MB-og3dw its kinda like how in big bang theory and young Sheldon that Mary Cooper the mom is played by both mother and daughter in the series. so daughter pulls off a younger version of the mother quite well.
Laverne was totally on board to play the flashbacks herself, but the series creator didn't want to put her in a potentially-triggering position and insisted on hiring a male actor. When they found out she had a twin, everything just sort of fell into place.
Charles "Estévez" Sheen is right.
Dying is for fools. Staying alive is the most punk shit I've ever done.
around 4:04 i think the intended joke is that the character is ordering fancy wine, which is distinctly un-manly in traditional masculinity. I genuinely can't tell what the joke is supposed to be if it isn't that.
also, the laughter in these shows is almost ALWAYS added in post, if they don't have an on-hand crew of people sitting around waiting to be told to laugh.
Two and a Half Men was actually filmed in front of a live studio audience. Of course, they had warm-up acts between the scenes and I also think they're not necessarily always filmed in the order shown in the episode, which might explain how the audience knew who Bill was. I've been part of a live studio audience before, although not for a sitcom, and the atmosphere is kind of infectious. You tend to end up laughing when everyone else does whether you got the joke or not.
@@mothturtle7897 producers counting on the fact the audience will laugh when others do, which is why cue cards are held up and why “laughers” are placed in audience
I also just don't think it's that kind of bar. You can see in later shots that he's drinking a beer, so I'm guessing the bartender just handed him a beer without comment.
I thought the joke was that Charlie recognised it as something that his ex likes
@@GALL0WSHUM0Ri hate that i can see myself doing that though lmao
“can i get a moscato 🥺” *gets handed a cooers*
to give full benefit of the doubt that it wasn't just inserted laughter, the studio audience could have already learned from a previous take of the scene
Yeah. It depends if you can predict that the 'joke' will be that Bill is Jill. After all, a lot of attention is drawn to him with the camera work, and there's not much reason to introduce him unless he's the one that Charlie is waiting for. But then, I'm also watching a video called "The Trans Two and a Half Men Episode," so I obviously have a bias.
Could also be cos the actor is famous, dude was Robin
@@bjam89
wonderful actor
terrible movies
Also, just a flag, but as a trans man, i struggle with the idea that erasure is in any way a benefit. We are facing many of the same problems trans women are, and although it's true that erasure sometimes protects us from being recognized by people looking to do targeted violence, we're still in an extremely high risk group for rape and sexual assult, domestic violence, family rejection, health care and job discrimination. Often when trans men talk about the problems that affect us, people use our privilege as men to shut down conversations about our needs as trans people. As trans men, we have a difficult time in all spaces but that difficulty is systemically unacknowledged. Erasure doesn't feel like an advantage, it feels like a different way transphobia shows up. Love and solidarity to all trans people. I hope you're heard, acknowledged, loved, and embraced.
So true. It's really a shame that expressing those things that target us can get us shut down so quickly.
And when once in a blue moon, people (mainly cis people) speak of us, they have no nuance or intersectionality to bring to the conversation around trans masc people. Mainly just stereotypes (or blatantly false statements) or, if they’re trying to be an ally, will just be nice enough to say “people who get pregnant.” which gets more backlash unfortunately.
@@spencersk83r Yeah, and the trans community in general is mocked and sexualized constantly even by so-called allies.
Exactly.
yeah the only "benefit" we get from erasure is that it makes it easier for us to fly under the radar and be full-stealth if we pass decently well. and "less likely to get clocked as trans" is not really much of a benefit compared to everything weighing down the other side of the scale.
i grew up in the 90s and while there was a general awareness that trans women existed, like i was passingly familiar with the idea of "a woman trapped in a man's body", the reverse was not even something that occurred to me. because the only places I ever saw anything even remotely similar to that were the tropes where a girl disguises herself as a boy for Reasons and then once everyone knows she's a girl nobody acknowledges her as a boy ever again. so the idea that a girl could dress as a boy and want to be a boy and _keep_ dressing & wanting to be a boy even after people found out she was a girl, that was not a concept that existed for me. since the concept didn't exist, it wasn't there for me to realize that it could apply to _me._ and because of that, I didn't realize I was trans until I was 20, when I finally discovered the existence of trans men and went "oh. that's me. that's what all those weird feelings have been this whole time."
whereas trans women will often say that they knew they were trans from a young age, experiences like mine are more common to trans men (maybe less so the younger generations, i hope), simply because we don't realize that option is there. we're told we're tomboys and go "oh, okay," because no other alternative is presented. that's what erasure does for us. that's the impact of having no representation in media. it makes us invisible even to ourselves.
I knocked a single letter off my deadname so hearing "Bill" as his name kinda slaps lmao
Yooo, same here!! Also loved his naming choice, the difference a letter can make-
I think one implicit thing with including a trans man is the fact this show is a lot about men. The fact that Bill is just treated like a homie, really just makes it feel like it was 3½ men and Evelyn being queen
exactly
the show literally has "men" in the title of course the trans character's going to be a man
as a trans masculine person in a weird way i'm really appreciative of there being at least one visible trans man in an admittedly garbage sitcom, and in a relatively positive way. and i also feel really happy that you specifically made note to talk about us for this video, thank you
"Seriously? Bill?" I LAUGHED I actually went by Bill for a small amount of time before settling with Kris.
I was so surprised when you said the trans person in the episode was a trans man! As a trans dude myself, I'm always looking for trans characters, especially trans masc characters. I love getting some representations since it's kinda hard for me to actually get in contact with the trans community irl.
I hope you cover some more trans masc characters in the future :D!
The actor is cis male
@@Avigailish I know? That's why I used the word character, not actor.
Without the laugh track, this episode would be exponentially better. At the least, I can appreciate that in the end, they validate Bills masculinity.
The fact that the Bill character, aside from some stereotypical feminine traits behaves appropriately as just one of the guys without going full ham. I also enjoyed that the reunion was of two people who really cared for each other and not some twisted "gender clisure" as many cis writers do.
Damn I'm actually impressed at this episode. Happy to see trans men represented. It isnt perfect but tbh it speaks to our experiences, which arent perfect either
As for the studio audience's Transdar: chances they've already seen the scene. They have to do multiple takes so they've had the episode spoiled multiple times because they're watching it being filmed
Evelyn looking at Charlie and faibting after he waves makes it pretty clear to me that it was Bill's sexual history that was the issue.
when i was in high school some of my friends were in a band and the band consisted of two cis men and a trans man. they called their band "two and a half men" which is one of the funniest band names i have ever heard of in my life
edit: also, no, for anyone wondering, this isn't some off-color transphobic joke, it's just a thing that was around in my life when i was younger.
edit 2: i somehow accidentally typed "trans woman" which was the opposite of what i meant. sorry.
that's hilarious
how is being a trans man half a man?
@@niicespiiceDo we seriously have to explain this to you? 🙄
@@gangstarock2455 yes. Please do.
I want to know who Bill's surgeon was. A phalloplasty can leave tell-tale scars from the donor skin site. Not to mention the talent of crafting the phallus. It's pro-trans writing that nothing gave it away to her before Bill told her. ❤
Then again, when youre in the heat of the moment would you even question shit like that? lmao
i’m a trans man and i had to pause this video multiple times to text my best friend who is also trans and tell him about this episodes plot. i was losing my damn mind. i think it rules personally.
Decent trans representation was NOT what I would have expected from Two and a Half Men! As a trans guy, it's nice to see decent representation in an old sitcom, especially one I would have expected the opposite from.
Here in Brazil there was a famous novela (soap opera) back in 2017 that featured a recurring character who was a trans man, it was called A Força do Querer (The Power of Will, in a literal translation) and the character was called Ivan. Another novela featured a trans guy called Catatau but I don't remember this one much.
“this is just like the matrix...in that there are trans people in leather jackets here”
As a cis man, I enjoy watching these videos to see how much worse I could be. Like, I get mad at myself if I accidentally misgender someone, but people like Ben Shapiro actually exist, so I’m doing pretty good
yes Seth MacFarlane, a well known LGBT ally & advocate, exists
and that's a bad thing somehow 🙄🚬
I don’t know much about him, but I vaguely remember something about him being transphobic, if that’s incorrect then I’ll change my comment
Is he actually a well known ally? I don’t really know much about him, like I said, so I honestly have no idea. I don’t mean to sound like a bigot, so if he is I’ll change my comment to say Ben Shapiro or something
@@Almost_Awesomeyears ago he did an episode of Family guy where Quagmire’s dad comes out as a trans woman and Brian sleeps with her (not knowing that she’s trans) and then Brian dramatically vomits when he finds out, but tbh I always more interpreted his vomiting as being more due to the fact that it’s Quagmires father rather than just a trans woman.
I think Seth has brown from that though since there is an episode a few seasons later where Brian decides to actually date Ida for a while, and they only break up because Quagmire gets uncomfortable with Brain taking on a step-father role in his life.
Ok I’ll change it to like Ben Shapiro or someone like that
Love how I can get to learn about episodes like these that were made while I was just a child. It's nice to see the better depictions of trans people in shows I wouldn't really expect it from.
Lovely to hear about trans men
Lily, when they tape a sitcom like this, they give a brief synopsis to the audience. They've let the audience in on the fact that the Bill (played by Chris O'Donnell) used to be Jill, Charlie's ex-lover. Between segments, there is a stand-up comedian telling them jokes. I've been to two tapings... not of this show... and I bet that's what happened here.
My expectations for this show doing decent trans rep were absolutely in the dirt, and I found myself extremely pleasantly surprised.
Lily is one of those people on the internet that I, despite my hatred for parasocial relationships, have a platonic version of a celebrity crush on. Lily exists in the same place in my brain that Jarvis Johnson does. Just, I wish we could be besties.
That’s called a squish!! I know exactly how you feel lol
your so pretty Lily wtf. you are the transition goals.
the lavender hair with the black jacket is chefs kiss
We love transmasc rappresentation
ok but the missed opportunity of not having him be called jack though lol...
As a trans man, its nice to see rep for people like me. Its so uncommon to see, especially in a relatively decent way. I wouldnt have expected this from two and a half men tbh
Trans isn’t real. You need therapy.
I find your videos very educational on how to conduct myself better when interacting with trans people. I have learned much about the trans experience from you. Thank you.
I love to see comments like this- really shows that Lily's work can make an impact. Tylersmith7752, kudos to you for being educible and caring about how to interact with people who are different from you- it may seem like a low bar, but so many fail to clear it, I'm grateful for every person who does.
The laughs when Bill enters is possibly not because they were told in advance what was going on, but rather that since Chris O'Donnell is a super-famous actor who they all recognized immediately, and figured out the twist right away.
I thank you for acknowledging that trans men are so often overlooked! Representation for us is very scarce, and it’s always a treat when we do show up in things (granted, with some modicum of compassion). My favourite trans man in fiction is King Oryx from Destiny. I admit I haven’t played the game myself, but I love him because he’s just so awesome. Though Nero from Devil May Cry always felt very trans to me.
My now spouse watched this as a teenager while we were dating, but I didnt really watch it, because we were, um, busy. Now, 13 years later, I have since come out as a trans man, and am still with the same boyfriend. I was really worried about this episode, but it was better than I thought! The jokes a little rough, but overall pretty wholesome all things considered. Nice. : )
I've been hoping you'd analyse Glee. Its easy to forget now what a massive impact it had culturally and for me at least it was the first time I saw any LBGT representation on screen. There were 2 trans characters in later seasons.
It's not a political analysis but you would love Mike's mic video "an appropriately unhinged recap of glee "
He was interested in the feminine-presenting Bill. It doesn't mean that Bill's ex is gay or even bisexual as he had no idea Bill was actually a dude the whole time and he clearly lost that romantic feeling or is ashamed to admit he still loves Bill. For example, I'm a transgender lesbian and if I actually ended up dating a closeted trans man but still retained some love for them, I'd still be a lesbian because I identify as a lesbian. Basically, if there was a straight woman was dating a closeted woman and later found out that this ex was someone who identified as a woman then the straight woman is still a straight if they continue to identify as on. Your exes do not define who you are as an individual. Only you can!
I'm not very good at wording things tbh I hope this paragraph is at least somewhat understandable.
Imo, they don’t even have to be an ex. A relative of mine identifies as a lesbian and has been with her partner for several years (I don’t remember if they are married or not). After a while of them being together, her partner transitioned and is a trans man. They are still together, but my cis relative still considers herself a lesbian. Her connection to her partner as a person and her sexual orientation don’t completely line up, but that’s okay. Life can be messier than the labels, so the label that makes the most sense and feels right.
It kinda reminds me of that tweet of a gay guy who kissed a lesbian thinking she was a twink, while the lesbian thought he was a butch asagjsjshsls
Love and attraction and labels and folks are much more complicated than what meets the eye, but it's the stuff that spices life up :)
yeah, i’d say as long as you recognize the actual gender identity of those individuals and aren’t trying to invalidate that or imply that they “basically count” as what would be expected to fall under your label’s umbrella of attraction, it’s fine to identify with whatever label you feel fits you best or most comfortably while acknowledging that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a perfect fit to the messier actualities of life
I'm obsessed with you referring to him as "Bill's ex" despite the fact that I think this the only episode Bill appears in and Charlie is not only a main character but also is just the name of his (infamous) actor
"good luck with the penis" is actually hilarious.
As a trans masc person I appreciate that (even though it was a joke) Bill was shown to have feminine mannerisms. I remember when I came out many people didn't believe it because I still had fem tendencies. What people might not understand is just because you're now a 'man' (loose quotes since I myself am non-binary) that means you've never experienced sexist notions that told you that as a girl you had to be feminine and pretty.
To avoid rambling and no longer making sense I'll sum it up as "Yes trans men can act girly. We were told it was the best way to be as children."
I like how it's shown as a positive too since it's something that Evelyn lists as an attractive quality. It reflects reality because I personally do find myself committing the occasional social faux pas around my cis friends because I wasn't raised to be as repressive of my emotions and muted in my affection for others as they were.
The wine thing is a joke from the era (This was before wine-culture had really kicked off super hard in the US) that white wine is a woman's drink and/or a gay mans drink, especially if ordered from a bar
i feel like it would be fun to have a video where you put all trans episodes you've reviewed so far into a tier list based on how good they are, might be fun, could be a good stream concept if you ever wanted to do a stream someday
lily: this one's going to be pretty different
me: lmao does it have a trans man
lily: it centers around a trans man
me: :O!
also, im sorry, but "good luck with the penis" was funny. reminds me of "enjoy your gender".
It makes me happy to see that my memory wasn't misplaced! Of course, some jokes aren't gonna be great, but the fact the subject itself was handled pretty well is so nice to see.
I've been rewatching the original Will & Grace and they had a gross episode where a trans person was made fun of. It's pretty bad and I'd def put it on your list.
Grew up with other family members watching this show constantly. Safe to say I’m excited for this one 😮
Edit: after watching the video, I am pleasantly surprised by their approach in this ep!! Absolutely not perfect especially with the jokes but to see this from 2 and a half men of all places is a surprise
As a Jake, I cant belive you would disrespect a Jake like that (i.e The Kid)
I WAS THINKING ABOUT THIS EPISODE FOR 2 WEEKS.
I WAS THINKING ABOUT HOW THIS EPISODE WAS NEVER COVERED.
I EVEN SHOWED THIS TO A FRIEND SO I HAVE SOMEONE TO TALK ABOUT IT WITH
WHY ARE WE YELLING?
@@TheresaBaker420 i got excited
OH I've been WAITING for this one.
I watched this show a lot when I was little because of limited availability of sitcoms and I sort of liked it, though it's definitely not my thing now.
Years after I came out as a trans guy, I checked and this was one of the very few trans man references in sitcomes there were out there - and I was ready to get so let down, however... It was a lot better than I had expected.
PS: I like the 'both wanted to be the top' bit because these days everyone expects the trans guy to be the bottom which is a very dangerous thought, especially because of chasers lol
I never really thought about it, but this show really did handle it well, especially for the type of show it is, and the time it aired. Despite characters having some trouble getting to the point of being OK with it, in the end they are trying to be supportive and do what they think is best for Bill.
this show was SUCH a fever dream experience throughout a huge chunk my childhood when i was around 10 yrs old
personally i think it's really obvious she was fainting in response to finding out Bill and Charlie used to date. they made the body language very blatant, with her pointing between Bill and then Charlie before fainting. that simply doesn't make sense as a reaction to her hearing that Bill is trans.
I know nothing about this show other than I saw one episode of this show mid-puberty and I thought that one of the guys was hot. And I have genuinely no idea which one, because neither of them are really that hot. So thats. A fact about my life I guess.
Evelyn is such a queen like she doesn’t about what people think at all and I love her for it
the scene where evelyn is fully supportive of bill's gender identity but faints at the reveal that he's one of charlie's exes is a great example of doing a trans joke without just making fun of trans people
Honestly I can see the name Bill, I think it adds to the character, especially since it’s short for William so there’s a ton you can do with the name & it suggests he might’ve chosen a flexible name that you can still shorten to something familiar to the people who knew him before he came out
I knew it was coming. Just a moment please while I prepare myself for the misogyny....
Okay on with the video.
Edits:
1) okay, it's the trans man one. Cool.
2) I always wanted the nickname Tony when I thought of myself as a cis dude. I chose Toni when I came out so I'm pretty alright with Bill choosing a name that sounded similar to his deadname by default.
3) I did notice the actor playing Bill playing him in a feminine way. While it's perfectly valid to be a feminine man regardless of whether or not you're trans most trans dudes I know are anything but.
4) I can read lips. Before she fainted she said "you & Charlie?" That's the part she was shocked by. Go Evelyn!
Because the show had a lot of 00's conceptions of masculinity, where being a man had to be on a certain way. But Bill now it's kind of a possitive representation of masculinity for both trans and cis men
@@gerrysnk Absolutely.
sort of relatable
I've renamed myself twice (once because I just hate my birth name & this one because I recently learned I'm trans)
so now I have 3 names & all of them start with the letter "T" just so I can keep my initials
@@gerrysnk The most manly thing a guy can do is date another man after all
to be fair most trans men are hypermasculine early transition because they’re overcompensating. but i think generally once they become comfortable with themselves they start to let their more feminine traits come out a bit. i say this as a trans man myself. i think bill is a very convincing trans man if you consider how confident he seems.
22:15 from the way they frame it it seems like they’re e implying that she fainted over the fact she’s dating/sleeping with one of her kids exes
Always lovely to hear from you, Lily, I‘ve been following you for a few months now and always love and enjoy your content!
I absolutely never cared for Two and a Half Men, but watched this episode just recently (after hearing about it in a queer podcast) and was very, very pleasantly surprised. That it featured a trans MAN?! And - after watching your channel for a while now - seeing how the bar for trans representation at that time was basically the floor, it was better than like ~95% of sitcoms at that time? Actually at times kinda sweet and sometimes kinda funny (still often very yikes-y, cringey and stereotypical, but in the end rather positive)? And that 2004? And of all shows THIS?!
I find it also fascinating that by using a trans man instead of a trans woman in this storyline, it kinda subverts commonly used tropes we’ve seen in all these other shows and movies, like:
Normally we get presented a straight male character who flips out when he discovers he dated and/or slept with a trans woman and then wonders if he’s now gay (because he and the show see her as “actually a man” *hard eye roll*),
but here we have a straight male character wondering if he’s gay because he dated and slept with a trans man, confirmed to us, the audience, that these characters and the show do see and accept Bill as the man he is.
Another similar thing I noticed: Normally, with not-so-great trans women representation, we always get this "look, you can cleeaarly see she 'used to be a man' / 'is actually a man'" trope, where characters point out (in a very negative way) things like “she has so broad shoulders”, “she behaves so aggressive”, “she displays [another typical masculine attribute/behaviour]”;
here characters like Berta, Charlie, and Alan always point out how Bill pre-transition “used to be such a slop, was messy, always wanted to top, was always tall and broad-shouldered etc”. So they use here these stereotypes around men to I guess show us that Bill “was always a man”, and not like other TV series do to say “haha, look, they are still their agab”.
I mean, the show’s still full of clichés, gender stereotypes and toxic masculinity, but making the main conflict here Evelyn’s bf being her son’s ex and not him being trans, was a clever move and ended in a relatively positive storyline, especially for its time.
(Also, I can’t believe I would ever say this, but some of Charlie’s lines gave me a chuckle, e.g. “No, listen, fella, I don't know what they told you in orientation…”).
26:26 yeah what I mainly remember is Charlie being really upset about him **sleeping with his mom**
And also one of the running jokes is that him and Allan don’t like to hear about their mothers sex life
Shockingly, Two and a Half Men did pretty well with the subject considering it was the 2000s.
I’ve been waiting for you to talk about this episode since finding your channel. For a show like two and a half men, and for it being in the mid 2000’s, it surprisingly handles a trans character decently.
I wish that so many other youtubers hadn't covered the whole Star Trek thing, because I would love to hear Lily's take on it, from Soren to Jadzia to the two characters in Discovery
I think a possible explanation for the laughter when they supposedly don’t get the joke, is that they do several takes in one day with the same studio audience. So they’d be rewatching with the added context.
Either way, even if it’s edited or not, it’s very indicative of a wider issue in society.
Not exactly a sitcom, but the show Shameless has had a few instances of trans representation (I started watching pretty late and haven't gotten through all of it). As of where I'm at in my watch through there's a recurring trans man character who is pretty well represented imo. Earlier on in the series there was a questionable example of a character who may have been a trans girl but it wasn't entirely clear (utilizing the uhhhh problematic trope of "A mom who has some kind of issues with men deciding to raise her child as a girl despite said child having been assigned male at birth").
i actually really like the Jill/Bill joke cuz when i was a kid i was like “if i was a girl i wouldn’t be (femme equivalent of my deadname) id be (name that sounds like my deadname)” what is funny is the pet name form of my deadname (that was used) is gender neutral(in a semi feminine spelling)
I knew a guy who went from mollie to Ollie so it does happen lol. You can imagine the confusion for a while though.
I’ve seen almost every episode of this show because I lived with my grandpa for a few years and he watched it all the time. I was hoping someone would talk about it omg
even before the part where evelyn stood up and said "mommy's got a date", i feel like it was pretty obvious which part of bill's confession she fainted at. the way she gestures towards charlie implies that bill told her they used to be together, and the reaction plays out as expected.
Least the name change wasn’t Jill to Jilliam 😂
Better than I expected, also awakened a deep memory of me actually seeing this episode when I was younger.
Another great video! I'm a cis guy and your content has been, in addition to very entertaining, really insightful and I think it's important to analyze media from a trans perspective. So thanks for making this stuff, and I look forward to seeing what show you cover next!
Yes! I was so excited for this video! I'm glad that the episode holds up like I remembered.
I am frankly pleasantly surprised that this is how it went down. And that says a lot about the landscape of television
The _real_ "Father of Sitcoms" is Norman Lear.
Also, "transdar" doesn't sound as good as 'gaydar'. May I recommend "transceiver"?
This episode of two and a half men was the first time I had seen a trans character depicted (if you don't count whatever Pleakley had going on from Lilo and Stitch). Considering how many examples of really negative trans representation there were from that era, I'm glad the first one I stumbled upon was relatively positive.
Hi Lily!!! Love your analisys!! I used to watch this show so much as a kid and seeing it now as a trans girl is very weird. Btw will the South Park Trans episode analisys ever come out? 👀 looking forward to it. Hope you have a great day ❤
Probably Christmas or new years
Oof. Two and a Half Men. Literally the first ever show I liked as a kid for being edgy, only to get really uncomfortable when I realized how mean spirited and almost nihilistic it was
What really did it was Charlie Sheen being replaced by Ashton Kusher. At least with the brothers there was a sense of family. After Ashton comes on, EVERY episode becomes how pathetic and miserable Allen is, and the fact that he could be kicked out or die at any time and no one would care becomes the main driving force of the series. His much more liked brother already was replaced. His life does not matter
the nihilism is the best part
then again I am a nihilist
@TheresaBaker420 maybe solipistic is a better word
The last 4 seasons really became just an exercise in misery. Like, none of the characters were worth caring about. They probably wouldn't have happy endings, I guess we were just supposed to watch them continue to torture each other
There's just nothing left from the first few seasons to keep you there by the end. I'm not going to say it's the worst thing ever, but it drifted further then basically any other show. They literally replaced one and one half of the men from the title!
I would love to see more videos on trans men! This was such a great video
Their name certainly fits the bill.