What if Ferrus Manus Survived the Isstvan Drop Site Massacre? | Warhammer 40k Lore

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  • Опубліковано 25 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 725

  • @majorkill
    @majorkill  Рік тому +294

    If only Ferrus kept a cool head... the joke writes itself
    Sadly the delisting of the Space Lions is no joke, however the 20% discount is a good way to send them off to Valhalla
    Space Lion Squad : www.majorminis.com.au/products/space-lion-squad
    Space Lion Sargent : www.majorminis.com.au/products/copy-of-space-lion-squad-standard-assault-5-models

    • @sharinganamvs9839
      @sharinganamvs9839 Рік тому +10

      Day 6 of requesting to make a video on Cato Sicarius 🙂
      My persistence will pay off someday 🙂

    • @huwwatkins6736
      @huwwatkins6736 Рік тому +3

      Your next piece of merchandise should be BJJ gi

    • @Grudgebearer4life
      @Grudgebearer4life Рік тому +1

      Keep up the great videos man👏👏👏👏👍

    • @niadh5913
      @niadh5913 Рік тому

      Why do i get the feeling GW is behind thus shitfuckery regarding delistung models

    • @askinperson2839
      @askinperson2839 Рік тому

      We all know you like getting pegged your misinformation won't dissuade us

  • @pentacosttb2565
    @pentacosttb2565 Рік тому +1460

    The major change would be that Guilliman would never have been wounded by Fulgrim and put in stasis for 10,000 years. He'd potentially rule as regent right ip to 40K, keeping the Imperium ticking over and preventing the degradation of society and technology

    • @Tricolossus
      @Tricolossus Рік тому +177

      Well yeah, but i think the narrative needed all the primarchs gone, then returned one by one

    • @michaelhowell2326
      @michaelhowell2326 Рік тому +72

      Damn, that's some pretty far thinking. Well done.

    • @warthog_almighty
      @warthog_almighty Рік тому +92

      It wouldnt have gotten that far. If Ferrus survived, the Iron Tenth would have smashed the traitor legions long before they could even make it to Terra.
      The Iron Tenth was the biggest and most powerful legion during the great crusade.

    • @michaelhowell2326
      @michaelhowell2326 Рік тому +18

      @@warthog_almighty how do you figure?

    • @warthog_almighty
      @warthog_almighty Рік тому +254

      @@michaelhowell2326 cause the Iron Hands are my favorite legion and im biased.

  • @archeogeek315
    @archeogeek315 Рік тому +923

    Ferrus the Manus my favourite primarch. I really hope they bring him back as a spooky legion of the damned ghost.

    • @orcho141
      @orcho141 Рік тому +19

      Out of interest, what makes him your favourite?

    • @darthmac8637
      @darthmac8637 Рік тому +28

      Favorite? Hmmmmmm..... how-..... imperfect of an opinion you harbor. >=]

    • @qigonglungz
      @qigonglungz Рік тому +45

      I get it, Ferrus and Perturabo were the first Primarch books I bought about 5-6 years ago... the true "Tough Love/Genius Artificer" Primarchs...

    • @jackmesrel4933
      @jackmesrel4933 Рік тому +20

      A skost

    • @JoeSmith-sl9bq
      @JoeSmith-sl9bq Рік тому +4

      That would be stupid writing.

  • @trimeerious4349
    @trimeerious4349 Рік тому +656

    Getting a video about how each of the pre heresy primarchs would have reacted to being in Guillimans situation of the first to re awaken would be pretty cool ngl. Seeing how they rule their own empire would be great.

    • @dde8690
      @dde8690 Рік тому +17

      Pre heresy Lorgar be like

    • @RorikH
      @RorikH Рік тому +42

      You are a man of commitment, determination, and sheer freaking will, and I know that as long as you keep posting this under every video, hope will live on in the hearts of man. o7.

    • @trimeerious4349
      @trimeerious4349 Рік тому +9

      @@RorikH that's all I ask for in life 🫡

    • @xTheZapper
      @xTheZapper Рік тому

      What an empty life you have.

    • @WristTapeDrowzzy
      @WristTapeDrowzzy Рік тому +12

      ​@@trimeerious4349 We're rooting for you. The voice of the people!

  • @trollface3028
    @trollface3028 Рік тому +153

    A factor you left out is the khan’s presence during the siege of terra, with no fulgrim the khan stays put there’s an extra primarch teleporting onto the vengeful spirit, potentially evening the odds for sanguinius and ensuring his survival

    • @jakerooke174
      @jakerooke174 6 місяців тому +6

      It would essentially become beyblade and Tasmanian devil vs power armoured lucifer

    • @thelast749
      @thelast749 2 місяці тому +5

      Imagine Khan just blitzing through the corridors before encountering Horus with Sanguinius and held him off long enough for Big E to arrive

  • @Wigalot
    @Wigalot Рік тому +429

    His soul survived though. All of the primarchs are still alive in either a physical form, a warp bound soul or daemon prince. All accept Horus who had his soul destroyed utterly.

    • @Directo13
      @Directo13 Рік тому +37

      Yes and no. He has echoes on the warp. The reason it's the warp itself so there is a chance of Horus becoming the rumored 5th chaos god. If they wish to go to that route!

    • @therealistintheboot8822
      @therealistintheboot8822 Рік тому +8

      ​@@Directo13😂

    • @Directo13
      @Directo13 Рік тому +15

      @@therealistintheboot8822 Hey man! What can I say. that's the rumors on the watering hole!

    • @Wigalot
      @Wigalot Рік тому +34

      @@Directo13 I mean.... yeah but that's speculation at this point. A 5th chaos god has been a rumour since 2nd edition.
      Ngl, it sounds like a fun idea but personally I find changing how chaos works suddenly just won't make sense.
      There are eight points on the chaos star.
      Four for the gods and four for the daemon primarchs of each god. Each daemon primarch has given his body to each god, thus becoming a host for a daemon. There souls remain intact. This also explains why the EoM tells Gman that Mortarion is still redeemable whilst Gman is fighting him.
      Horus differed from the four daemon primarchs because he gained the blessing of all four gods in exchange for his soul being corrupted. He maintained control of his body and didn't become a god or get his body taken by a daemon. Hence why the EoM destroyed his soul outright.
      But yeah.... it's kinda possible for him to ascend to a god if his soul isn't totally destroyed but imagine what sacrifice he would need to make in order to become a god out right. It would be along the lines of another god getting killed by him. (perhaps he would have become a god if he had killed the EoM and lived?)

    • @rebeccavdh4803
      @rebeccavdh4803 Рік тому +26

      @@Directo13 5th chaos god is 100% gonna be Vashtorr imo, makes way more sense

  • @CallsignYukiMizuki
    @CallsignYukiMizuki Рік тому +940

    Majorkill is the kind of guy that Slaanesh would worship after seeing his Custodes cosplay

    • @Baumstumpf.
      @Baumstumpf. Рік тому

      SIMP

    • @Grudgebearer4life
      @Grudgebearer4life Рік тому +17

      🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

    • @ghostpatriot2370
      @ghostpatriot2370 Рік тому +45

      Well at least we know majorkill alt account now. Lol

    • @boid9761
      @boid9761 Рік тому +13

      MajorKill would become into the first Slaaneshi Custodian

    • @Academician100
      @Academician100 Рік тому +6

      Do you have a link of him in cosplay? For a friend...

  • @myself2noone
    @myself2noone Рік тому +309

    Well, if Flugum was dead, then Guilliman wouldn't lose a fight against him. And he wouldn't be put in Stasis. And then the Imperium would probably not fall as far. So, it's probably a pretty big difference.

    • @rayhanmustakim7073
      @rayhanmustakim7073 Рік тому +11

      Who's Flugum? The second or eleventh primarch?

    • @Falkuria
      @Falkuria Рік тому +14

      @@rayhanmustakim7073 it's the weird 11th primarch that's partially bald and hates both perty and rogal for gething legos and megablocks while he got stuck with lousy clays😆

  • @2saisai
    @2saisai Рік тому +110

    The Gorgon must comeback. The iron hands deserve justice.

    • @Shadrak_Meduson
      @Shadrak_Meduson Рік тому +14

      Would be so cool to see Ferrus Manus and his Morlocks as Legion of the damned fighting alongside the modern Avernii and butchering the newly arrived Fulgrim and his hedonites.

    • @2saisai
      @2saisai Рік тому +6

      @Jan Müller I will speak it into the universe and I hope it does its thing.
      I hope for Ferrus(as a lesion of the damnd ghost rider) and clonegrim with the iron hands (and maybe the sons of the pheonx chapter) Vs Demon fulgrim and the sapphire King.
      There needs to be a battle against their dark reflections.
      And again, justice for the Iron Hands.

    • @Shadrak_Meduson
      @Shadrak_Meduson Рік тому +2

      ​@@2saisaiAs it should be

    • @seanturner1197
      @seanturner1197 Рік тому +2

      ​@@2saisaiwith ancient Rylanor as a chapter master of the legion of the damned.

  • @jo_ken
    @jo_ken Рік тому +88

    10:35 I think this prevents Guiliman from being shanked with that chaos knife from Fulgrim though and he never goes into stasis.

    • @670HP-Package-NOW
      @670HP-Package-NOW Рік тому +15

      Yeah basically this means Abby wouldn't make it out of the black crusades alive. Also the war of the beast would either never happen or go way better for the imperium if they have big bobby g instead of the shitty high lords

    • @jo_ken
      @jo_ken Рік тому +7

      @@670HP-Package-NOW Probably just no reason to go that far in the vid though since it’s meant to focus on Ferus and Fulgrim rather than extending it to the 40k setting just being a ‘What if G-Man didn’t get shanked and put in stasis’

  • @stratigangames508
    @stratigangames508 Рік тому +126

    I kinda like the idea of Fulgrim getting a redemption arc, realizing how fucked his legion had become, and rejoining the loyalists, being the only Primarch to no longer have a legion to call his own. Maybe becoming like a ronin, walking the galaxy to atone for his sins and killing chaos wherever it comes up. That sounds like a really good plotline.

    • @Monarch_Crown_Security
      @Monarch_Crown_Security Рік тому +29

      I think adding various types of renegade and chaos marines that are or are trying to redeem themselves would also mix well with that idea. Maybe only around a quarter or half a chapter size tho

    • @gideonmele1556
      @gideonmele1556 Рік тому +26

      Legionless Fulgrim could lead the blackshields as he would be a blackshielded primarch. The image of once haughty and horribly insecure egoist still wearing his purple and gleaming gold only with the addition of a small black shield emblem attached as a mark of humbled repentance, fighting with the abandon of a shame wracked penitent would be quite a turn but not impossible and one hell of an arc

    • @stratigangames508
      @stratigangames508 Рік тому +4

      @@gideonmele1556 I need this fanfiction

    • @anomalousproductions3747
      @anomalousproductions3747 Рік тому +6

      There’s a clone of Fulgrim who Fabius Bile produced. This clone was said to retain the memories of Fulgrim to a certain degree, and was loyal to the Emperor. We could see two Fulgrims existing.

    • @stratigangames508
      @stratigangames508 Рік тому +8

      @@anomalousproductions3747 He's cool, but I like the alternate history. Ferrus lives, Fulgrim isn't possessed, and he eventually works to redeem himself as his corrupted legion hunts down their genefather.

  • @24fretsoffury
    @24fretsoffury Рік тому +72

    If you read one of the few Iron Hands 40k novels/novella’s, specifically Medusan Wings, it’s shown that the Iron Hands have a pretty good understanding of Ferrus Manus.
    They have learned from his life and death. They understand that his geneseed causes them to become hot-headed and emotional, and they keep each other’s emotions in check, using Ferrus’ death as an example.
    It’s really neat to see them learn and grow from their primarchs death.
    If only we could get actual fucking novels about them, Raven Guard, White Scars and Salamanders, that’d be awesome.
    There’s a ton of things they could explore with their legions.

    • @TheEyez187
      @TheEyez187 Рік тому +7

      Don't you mean - "They understand their geneseed can cause them to become not-headed!" . >XD

    • @Jagonath
      @Jagonath Рік тому

      The Iron Hands are also super-messed up though. They believe their Astartes bodies are "weak," so replace their entire bodies - unlike the Mecanicus, which aims for a perfect balance of human and machine. Ferrus wanted to put a stop to his legion using so many cybernetics, especially because Ferrus' metal arms were fundamentally biological, not "robot arms" like his legion believed. Unfortunately he died before he could stop them.

    • @24fretsoffury
      @24fretsoffury Рік тому +5

      @@Jagonath they definitely are the legion that is the closest to the AdMech, in not just fundamentals, but they trade tech back and forth between them, and Iron Hand tech marines are highly regarded within the legion for their study on Mars.
      It’s why they are likely my favorite legion, AdMech are what got me into 40k.

    • @ovidiudiumea4012
      @ovidiudiumea4012 Рік тому +4

      @@Jagonath Not ALL Iron Hands are like that, though. Most of those that were truly machine-worshippers fell to Chaos in the Gaudinian Heresy. Iron Father Feirros and current Chapter Master elect Kardan Stronos are well-balanced, for example.

    • @Jagonath
      @Jagonath Рік тому +3

      Yeah a lot of legions are grossly overlooked. Raven Guard (according to ADB) have lots of novels but I'm not so convinced. White Scars have a couple good ones but all Horus Heresy era. I have yet to read a good Salamanders book and some are so poorly written I laughed out loud reading them.

  • @RealMomar27
    @RealMomar27 Рік тому +38

    Imagine if after Istvan Ferrus and Vulkan go full blacksmith and work together to make a ton of relic weapons and artifacts before the payback.

  • @LordGrantius
    @LordGrantius Рік тому +25

    It's not that Iron Hands were able to escape, it's that Ferrus raged ahead with a fraction of his legion. Most of the Isstvan survivors were ships that showed up as or after the trap was sprung

  • @jamesbronk5720
    @jamesbronk5720 Рік тому +10

    One of my pipeline fever dreams is that Ferrus Manus returns as the Legion of the damned's "Primarch", reborn into realspace out of his pure and still existing drive for vengeance. Feels fitting and a nice convenient "loophole" to return Ferrus to the setting.

  • @andygoody2599
    @andygoody2599 Рік тому +38

    I want to see if Fabius Bile could make a "Primaris style Primearch", like how powerful can your get with no warp spirits inside.

    • @MrFallenone
      @MrFallenone Рік тому +11

      Not worth the resources. As is apparent with the clones he already made. One headshot and they are gone. No special soul no special plot armor.

  • @jeremyleonjonas7657
    @jeremyleonjonas7657 Рік тому +13

    As a small boon to the loyalists during the Siege: the Khan wouldn't have ridden out to protect Terra from the Emperors Children as he did in canon.
    And yeah, having Legion of the Damned Ferrus appear to kick Daemon Fulgrims teeth in would be wild.

  • @taianonni
    @taianonni Рік тому +34

    It really is too bad Ferrus was first to die and is gone. After someone made the comparison between Ferrus and Fulgrim as Guts and Griffith from Berserk and I can't unsee it. The way you describe him on this skirmishing campaign against Fulgrim and the Emperor's Children reminiscent of the Conviction Arc and beyond of Muira-sensei's magnum opus. Two pairs of once best friends betrayed and disgraced... it truly is a shame we didn't get this awesome storyline

  • @spartanproductions1127
    @spartanproductions1127 Рік тому +26

    Majorkill you need to make a sort of pseudo part two to this about Guilliman never getting stabbed and put into stasis

  • @jacobdarling1524
    @jacobdarling1524 Рік тому +8

    Fulgrim dying like this doesn't change the Heresy much but it would have huge ripples for the post Heresy setting. Imagine an Imperium that had Guilliman to lead it from the very start all the way up to the present day. The whole thing would look like Ultramar at this point. OP

  • @gwilym1991
    @gwilym1991 Рік тому +7

    One thing I think would be worth noting is that the Iron Hands wouldn't have the same obsession with replacing everything with cybernetics as in canon they recognised that it was Ferrus' anger that got the better of him so they try and expunge all emotion. In this instance they'd probably cybernetics more as pragmatism than dogma.

  • @miguel4066
    @miguel4066 Рік тому +28

    Ferrus is so cool, he truly is the Warhammer 40k 🔥🔥🔥🔥

  • @TheCOD4hero
    @TheCOD4hero Рік тому +8

    Hey Majorkill, I think you should do a full video on Ferrus. It might not do as well as the other primarch videos, but Ferrus definitely deserves it. In fact, your video might help give him more exposure among the fanbase, which again, he deserves.

  • @okupant880
    @okupant880 Рік тому +17

    Its funny and probably will NEVER happen since the author left, but i want to see the Loyalist Fulgrim to return next.
    Loyalist Clone Fulgrim:Oh hey G man, how have you been? Let me explain.
    G man: confused scared rage screaming
    Lion: on guard and ready
    Corvus materialises in deamon form: confused silence
    Loyalist Fulgrim (and everyone else in the room) What in Fathers name is that?

    • @sovietunion7643
      @sovietunion7643 Рік тому +8

      honestly i think that would be equal parts hilarious and fucking scary if corvus materialized in his crow demon form finding clonegrim and just being fucking shocked, while both guiliman and the lion stand in awe as both a crow demon and a perfect fulgrim clone appear in the same room at once with all 4 primarchs trying to understand what is going on.

    • @okupant880
      @okupant880 Рік тому +5

      @@sovietunion7643 G man to the Lion. Brother i think were in the wrong timeline.

  • @yamahadrag69
    @yamahadrag69 Рік тому +3

    Thank you so much. This hypothetical is vastly more satisfying and respectful to the lore of Ferrus and the Metal Bois. I'm not even upset that he still dies, because it's *way* more impactful.

  • @gerardorafaelubaldopatron6042
    @gerardorafaelubaldopatron6042 Рік тому +5

    I don't know, ferrus was physicaly a beast, the few books we have of him show him in his lowest moments, but in lore he was supossed to be one of the strongest primarchs and better generals, i think that depending on the case he would travel to medusa to rearm, but later he could initiate a crusade to bring togheter the loyals and counterattack, analyzing the situation, ferrus is hot headed but the point is that his cold mind focus his rage to use it as a weapon, we must remember that by the point where he was in the fulgrim novel he was already wiser and self-aware but fulgrim's betrayal broke his character development, he just has unlimited potential, he could do anything, we NEED more books of him

  • @cameronpoupard9966
    @cameronpoupard9966 Рік тому +12

    Literally broke my back last week, thank god for Majorkill I would’ve lost my mind with you mate

    • @xavierhugo9269
      @xavierhugo9269 Рік тому +4

      Jeez sorry man I hope your recovery will be a speedy one I can only imagine what happend

    • @1IGG
      @1IGG Рік тому +1

      Hope you get well, Brother.

  • @BoomerNick
    @BoomerNick Рік тому +11

    I haven't even started the video yet but thank you for doing this subject!
    Such an awesome Primarch that could have had a lot more awesome stories.
    The pain only gets worse the bigger my Iron Hands army gets..

  • @kingaudi33
    @kingaudi33 Рік тому +31

    i love the idea of ​ primarch tier gear handmade by ferrus manus for his morlocks. that would have been awsome lore and models for 30k and 40k iron hands

    • @MrFallenone
      @MrFallenone Рік тому +3

      The Morlocs were all terminators. The Iron Hands had the most terminators due to their ties with the Mechanicum. Also they got them first and worked on improving the designs.

  • @DefensiveMAN
    @DefensiveMAN Рік тому +98

    Can you do a video on what would have happened if the imperium didn’t become ultra religious and xenophobic after the emperor’s‘’ascension’’

    • @slimjim877
      @slimjim877 Рік тому +15

      The emperor would probably be severely weakened in the warp, and with more xeno allies and vassels, the imperium would be a better position in real space, but forced to deal with worse warp storms and other chaos fuckery

    • @pentacosttb2565
      @pentacosttb2565 Рік тому +25

      Well we know from the age of strife what would happen. The Xenos would have betrayed and butchered, enslaved or eaten a huge number of humans and carved out mini empires for themselves.
      This is not Stat Trek. Different species do not, outside of very rare exceptions, hold hands and become friends. Humanities xenophobia is extremely justified.

    • @juanpabloarroyave5583
      @juanpabloarroyave5583 Рік тому +3

      @@pentacosttb2565 I think he means maybe a little less xenophobic

    • @xTheZapper
      @xTheZapper Рік тому +6

      ​@@pentacosttb2565There are plenty of different animal species that get on with or at least tolerate each other, and several that actually help each other out with beneficial relationships.

    • @hamanu666
      @hamanu666 Рік тому +1

      @@xTheZapper we are not animals we are assholes and so are all the xenos.

  • @Dr.Gainzzz
    @Dr.Gainzzz Рік тому +6

    Maybe the iron hands would finally get some love. I think ferrus by far as one of the best primarch back stories and his devotion to the Emperor could easily make him a fan favorite.

  • @memosanchez8916
    @memosanchez8916 Рік тому +9

    Ferris would’ve followed the same road as Corvus corax and would’ve become a warp entity hunting the traitors on his own crusade of vengeance

  • @edwardbryan9501
    @edwardbryan9501 Рік тому +2

    I'm happy that a lot of people, including MajorKill, is giving Iron hands the attention they deserve.

  • @bahmot9501
    @bahmot9501 Рік тому +6

    A scenario that always interested me is how things would have gone if the Emperor hadn't allowed Horus to beat him to a pulp and just destroyed his soul after he saw him kill our glorious hawk-boy Sanguinius. How would a non-vegetable Emperor deal with the fall-out of the Horus heresy, the destruction of the webway, the disappearance of the loyalist primarchs, the 13th black crusade, etc. I would watch the *shit* out of a video like that !

  • @ianyoder2537
    @ianyoder2537 Рік тому +14

    For starters the iron hands may finally get some cool lore and unique models.
    I have made it very clear that I want to see less space marines. But how come the iron hands, one of the original legions, the one with the most grimdark and sci-fi aspects in a grimdark sci-fi setting, who's basically the space marine admech, is the one that gets stiffed on the lore. I know they don't get stiffed on the tabletop, there paint scheme is awesome and easy to work with, and I know there's a demand for better lore for them. So why does GW stiff them?

    • @ianyoder2537
      @ianyoder2537 Рік тому +3

      @@arcahmwinters70 Then embrace it. Make a story about an iron hands space marine who actually cares about civilians and does every thing in his power to protect them while still working within a system that discourages such a mind set.
      Or show what it takes for a civilian to finally earn the respect of the iron hands. Have a planet like Armageddon that's constantly being attacked, saved, rebuilt, and attacked again. Have the iron hands see how resilient the population is.
      Or make the iron hands the bad guy of a story, there's plenty of examples where the imperials are attacking other imperials for whatever reason. Show how powerful, oppressive, and heartless the impirium can be, but at the same time how the people within it can still somehow eak out a win.
      There's no such thing as a bad premise, just bad writing, and the ironhands are getting nothing written about them.
      Edit. I accidentally typed iron warriors a couple of times, but that's another idea. Have the two iron space marines fight and show how painfully similar they are. How easy it is to turn traitor. Or actually show the good in the iron hands by comparison.

  • @mremu4358
    @mremu4358 Рік тому +13

    So hear me out, what if they bring Ferrus back to life.. as a dreadnought Primarch, and he goes toe to toe with Perty who is a demonic Dreadnought Primarch

  • @zacharyweaver276
    @zacharyweaver276 Рік тому +56

    I want to see what would have happened if the Beast had conquered Terra or the high lords surrendered to them

    • @muffinfinfin9322
      @muffinfinfin9322 Рік тому +6

      You can't really surrender to orks they'll just kill you anyway if the beast conquered terra the setting would end as there's not much else that would cause them any trouble

    • @zacharyweaver276
      @zacharyweaver276 Рік тому

      @@muffinfinfin9322 true the orks would just form a big empire then go ham against the Necrons and Tyranids. They'd probably wipe out or enslave the T'au as well

  • @jamesbarkworth9043
    @jamesbarkworth9043 Рік тому +4

    Actually really agree with this, I think regardless what happened on Istvan they would have been destined to face again, fulgrim for his vanitiy feerius for his anger and not being blind sided as much I think they'd definitely fight to a stale mate and feris would die, would have been alot more meaningful and interesting lore wise and to iron hand fans but then istvaan wouldn't have had the same impact. But really like these sort of videos that make you think

  • @darkmindaustin
    @darkmindaustin Рік тому +3

    I think there is also the chance this changes Dorn's fate, and Fabius Bile's. For Fabius, without Fulgrim getting possessed and thus pushing Fabius to look for arcane means to extend his life, Fabius dies sometime during or after the Heresy as he only had 1 Terran Year left in his lifespan at the time of the massacre. That was his own words and thoughts even with his biological tinkerings to himself. There would also be less Noise Marines and other weird mutant Marines that Fabius had a hand in running around, meaning that the Terminators of Manus would have less issues, even with the outnumbering. This could mean Manus has a chance at living (less Noise Marines means less enhanced Marines that can even take on Termies, which would allow Manus to escape with his troops. This is a bit more farfetched though...) but even if he doesn't, that changes the future of the Chaos Marines because it is through Bile that they have "stability" in their gene seed stock. Without him, they have to rely more on Chaos blessings, and we all know how that goes.
    For Dorn, it could mean he survives the 1st Black Crusade. This is more butterfly effect than Bile, but it all stems from his anger and hatred towards Perty, and Perty's reciprocated feelings. So for the Traitor Primarchs, the only one not entirely Chaotic at the Siege was Perty. Everyone else was either a Chaos-Aide drinker or locked in a baby cage to use as a nuke. Without Fulgrim you have... Mortarion, Perty, Angron in the baby cage, a severely damaged (and newly chaotic) Magnus, and Horus. Without Fulgrim and his troops, you lose the extra coverage they give, and the fear that if you as say, Sanguinius or Khan leave the safety of the Fortress you have to fight a skilled Duelist. This forces Horus to HAVE to use Perty as siegemaster, or he leaves. I think he leaves faster if he isn't given this distinction and that power to lead, because his troops become the bulk that take the line for the lacking Children. If he is given this distinction and is allowed to fight properly, Dorn and he are fully dueling in their area of expertise, siege craft. I think the Loyalists still win (with a higher survivor count too) but it doesn't have the same emotional baggage for those two. Dorn was insulted by Perty's lack of siege attacks, and just wanton throwing of bodies at the wall, though we all know that Perty only did that cause Horus is a moron. Will Dorn still chase the Traitors? Definitely. Will he still attack the Eternal Fortress? Definitely. Will he think of it as a thing he has to do alone? I doubt it. He attacked it alone as it became the duel they needed to have. He doesn't have to do that this time around. He can wait for Girly Man and crush it easily. This means he has more to work with when the 1st Black Crusade happens, and he isn't mentally crippled from the ass kicking he got at the Eternal Fortress.

  • @michelangeloaccardo3887
    @michelangeloaccardo3887 Рік тому +5

    In my opinion the fanfiction Imperium Ascendant gives an amazing alternate version of Ferrus Manus and of his legion.
    I know that you did some videos on fanfictions and I would say that you would probably love this one too!
    It is an alternate history where the Primarchs were never taken away from the Emperor prior to the Great Crusade thanks to the intervention of the God-Emperor of Mankind of the 41st millenium.
    The author has his headcanon on the nature of Chaos, the Emperor and the War in Heaven that are so well made in my humble opinion that are now my point of view on this amazing narrative too.
    I hope that you can give it a try and make a video about it if you like it!
    Cheers from Italy! Thank you, your content improves even my worst days! You and Luetin convinced me to start painting my own Ultramarines' army
    See you in the battlefield, Battle Brothers!

  • @TK199999
    @TK199999 Рік тому +1

    Fulgrim did appear once to Guillemin after he returned. When it was discovered the planetary governor of Macragge was a Slanneshi worship. Who put the Crown of Glories on Guillimen's head to tempt him.

  • @adventarchivist5789
    @adventarchivist5789 Рік тому +3

    I'd still like to propose what would happen if Magus never broke the webway. If he knew Horus would turn traitor and would instead head towards Terra in a hurry, he'd be a much bigger threat to Horus and be a target for the Chaos legions.

    • @ovidiudiumea4012
      @ovidiudiumea4012 Рік тому

      With the webway not broken, the Emperor and his Custodes would also be far more free to fight and partake in the heresy, not having to deal with the unleashed daemons and the broken golden throne... bad times for the traitors

  • @headhunter1541
    @headhunter1541 8 місяців тому

    0:37
    Perturabo: Incomprehensible May Johnny Space have mercy on your soul

  • @AlexGoldhill
    @AlexGoldhill Рік тому +1

    I actually have an idea for an alternate timeline where Ferrus Manus kills Fulgrim during the Drop Site Massacre and manages to escape in the confusion. The rest of the Heresy plays out more or less as it did in the cannon, with the Imperium possibly in a slightly stronger position due to the Emperor's Children falling apart earlier, but in the aftermath a surviving Ferrus Manus is able to tip the balance of power among the remaining loyalist Primarchs and sides with Dorn against Guilliman. As a result, the evolution and development of the Imperium is sent down a very different trajectory that favours heavier centralisation and organisation instead of the more hands off decentralised space feudalism and, instead of becoming the HRE in Space, the Imperium becomes Space China.

  • @CholericCounterAttack
    @CholericCounterAttack Рік тому +3

    All I want in this life is to see a returned Ferrus Manus, wherein the living metal portions of his arms had kept a nanomachine network memory of the entirety of his body, as it was merged with Ferrus long ago. I imagine his head being slowly reconstructed in a dull, silvery sort of sheen. His memories would be intact, right up until the point his head was severed. Initially the body would be soulless until Ferrus's soul comes screaming out of the warp and slams back into his reanimated body, with the living metal head being somewhat incapable of fully handling the legion of the damned style soul that inhabits it. So it is constantly having to repair itself from the sheer warp fury that still emanates from Ferrus, which could cause an eerie green flame effect that occasionally licks up the side of his head.
    Even just a drawing of that would be good enough. I don't care if I sound silly. It would be the most badass shit ever, and seeing a contemptuous tarnished silver headed Ferrus with his visage wreathed in ghostly green flame slowly squeeze the head off of his traitorous brother Fulgrim, his eyes all Total Recall, and his snake tongue hanging out is a dream I wish would come to reality, but will never happen unless I knew the writers. Oh well.

    • @CholericCounterAttack
      @CholericCounterAttack Рік тому +1

      Plot twist: The Void Dragon is able to utilize Ferrus's new head to act as a conduit in to either partially, or fully control him, and attempts to use Ferrus to free itself from the labyrinth under Mars. Needless to elaborate, heavy shenanigans ensue.

    • @warthog_almighty
      @warthog_almighty Рік тому +1

      Ferrus could come back as a vessel for a C’Tan, seeing how Medusa had heavy ties to the Necrons. We have many primarchs being vessels for the Chaos/immaterial Gods, it would be cool to see Ferrus as a vessel for the Order/material Gods. They could put him right next to the Eye of terror where he is in a perpetual fight with Chaos forces(in order to power the C’Tan). They could have the Iron Tenth fight their way across the galaxy in order to retrieve him. Have his reanimated form be completely comprised of Necrodemis, similar to Silver Surfer from Marvel.

    • @CholericCounterAttack
      @CholericCounterAttack Рік тому

      @@warthog_almighty That is 100% dope, and I'm with that, but I'm curious about what you mean by "they could put him there". Who is they? Is Ferrus just completely C'Tan controlled, or is he more just kinda a compromised element that is loyal, or trying to be loyal still, but kinda suffers from a "I've got the C'Tan bipolar problem, and no meds, so just let me do what I can as my mind is subject to sudden onset destroyer cult madness at any ol time"?
      Regardless, I feel the same way, and as an addendum I've always been a fan of Necron/Imperium tag team parties vs whoever, as in my mind they sorta operate on that similar Order-based perspective, even if in the end they are still opposing kingdoms.
      I think it would be neat to see one of the named Necron overlords do the imperium a solid by "exorcising" the C'Tan from a possessed Ferrus, but of course only on the grounds that the Necrons absolutely cannot be having C'tan walking around, and fucking shit up again.
      Funny conclusion, Ferrus, with the aide of a Necron overlord manages to override the C'tan in his brain, and then uses it to further power his body, like the Silent King powers his pimp throne. Food for thought.

  • @DedMan28
    @DedMan28 Рік тому +1

    Your insight into Ferrus's potential impact on the Heresy storyline is intriguing in some way. However, am curious as to how this will impact other post-heresy stories. In particular, Fulgrim's potential involvement in the lore post-Heresy (encounters with Guilliman, Clonegrim, Rylanor...)

  • @dueinuremom5082
    @dueinuremom5082 Рік тому +1

    Noman has a series called heart of iron and it’s about a marauded iron warrior. It’s pretty good.

  • @Griffinmore
    @Griffinmore Рік тому +1

    With regards to the speculation about Fulgrim taking longer to be possessed in the Laer blade, that would've had an effect on Molech as well. Without Fulgrim ascending when he did, Horus would mostly likely not have a means to corrupt House Devine and taking down the imperator titan that was defending Molech would've been more difficult if it was backed up by a bunch of imperial knights. If Horus failed at Molech, then he would not have been empowered by Chaos like he was.

  • @anonymoose7412
    @anonymoose7412 Рік тому

    Finally, I've been wanting this video for ages

  • @Tacticalsnails
    @Tacticalsnails Рік тому +1

    I like to imagine ferris was a pure ball of death in that final fight like the emperor's children that went against him where just massacred

  • @Damon_Game
    @Damon_Game Рік тому +2

    i fucking love Ferrus Manus.......... rip best boy

  • @chippsdubbo990
    @chippsdubbo990 Рік тому +3

    I want ferrus and fulgrim to come back for round 2

  • @RandallAndStrat
    @RandallAndStrat Рік тому +1

    So, interesting point about if Fulgrim was killed by Ferrus at any point: what would that have freed up Dorne to be able to do during the Siege of Terra? Would he have been able to dedicate more time to shoring up his defenses? Would it mean he would have been able to accompany Big E and Sanguinius into the fight against Horus? Seems like that could have led to some BIG changes.

  • @bam8458
    @bam8458 Рік тому +1

    The Iron Hands are the epitome of 40k irony as Ferrus never wanted his sons to reject their flesh and humanity, but because of his blind rage they strive to be more machine than man. Just as a man that wanted the imperial "truth" to be a rejection of religion and an embracement of science is now worshipped as a god.

  • @AlternetRedSkys
    @AlternetRedSkys 26 днів тому

    I imagine in this verse they'd embrace the feel meaning of their motto. "The flesh is weak there for Deeds must endure." If I'm remembering it right. The deeds part this time would come in with Ferrus dying taking out Fulgrim.

  • @a15thcenturysuitofgothicarmor
    @a15thcenturysuitofgothicarmor Рік тому +2

    0:11 Hold up 🤨
    You tryna tell us something Majorkill?

  • @dudeboydudeboy-zj8kd
    @dudeboydudeboy-zj8kd Рік тому +2

    How about a lore on the 5 segmentums and which key battles/events took place in each segmentum during and after the heresy

  • @bonkripper4744
    @bonkripper4744 Рік тому

    We all know that last what if isnt a question. Cheers mate on almost getting to 500k.

  • @bartholomewchungusgingersn2416

    One of the main what ifs I like to think about is what if the traitors and loyalists were flipped. With Horus, Magnus, Angron, Mortarion, Fulgrim, Lorgar, Perturabo, and Curze now being the good boi loyalists and Ferrus, Sanguinius, the Lion, Jaghatai Khan, Leman Russ, Rogal Dorn, Roboute Guilliman, Vulkan, and Corvus Corax now the heretic and chaotic traitors. With this being such a big change there's much to think about like how each one of the new traitors would fall, who would live or die, and how everything will turn out in the aftermath.

  • @thelazerbunny7905
    @thelazerbunny7905 Рік тому

    Your videos really helped me to make my own chapter fit the world way better

  • @HoraceKock
    @HoraceKock Рік тому

    a majorkill post on my birthday? stars are aligning

  • @ivanivanovic5586
    @ivanivanovic5586 Рік тому +1

    To touch on the khorne sanguinius artwork(the full picture is awesome, as is the loyalist part), the other 3 dedicated to major gods are as follows: leman russ to tzeentch, jaghatai khan to nurgle and ferrus manus to slaanesh (all 3 choices are bit confusing, to me at least), not sure who would be first heretic(my guess vulkan or corax, bcs the're demon princes there, and remaining primarchs (lion, guilliman and rogal dorn don't look as chaosy).

  • @nodak5334
    @nodak5334 Рік тому +3

    The flesh is weak! BUT DEEDS ENDURE!

  • @zacharyduff543
    @zacharyduff543 Рік тому

    Love what if lore stuff! Top notch content.

  • @mikeylejan8849
    @mikeylejan8849 Рік тому +2

    We would see a battle of Iron between Iron Hands and Iron Warriors

  • @ricardodelagarza4845
    @ricardodelagarza4845 22 дні тому

    The "what if I enjoyed getting pegged" got me. Freaking gold. 😂

  • @sparkynova2051
    @sparkynova2051 Рік тому

    Love you Majorkill best 40k youtuber

  • @korvos4317
    @korvos4317 Рік тому +1

    Which primary besides resurrected or corrupted ones is the most important to the imperium in the current time setting

  • @NornQueenKya
    @NornQueenKya Рік тому +6

    Horus would have been most displeased
    Horus gambit failed even with all that DID go right. If anything more went wrong he would have just lost quicker

    • @chuck2703
      @chuck2703 Рік тому

      Horus failed because the lore needed it to happen.

    • @NornQueenKya
      @NornQueenKya Рік тому

      @Chuck that and he tried to wage a entire galactic spanning war in only like 7 years

  • @johnnys8393
    @johnnys8393 Рік тому

    Angel Exterminatus is possibly my favourite 40k novel. I hate the imperium but Sharrowkin is an absolute badass and one of my favourite characters in the entire 40k universe.

  • @paulellington1505
    @paulellington1505 Рік тому

    I love the idea of the Keys of Hel for the Iron Hands. An Iron Hands survivor of the Istvan massacre was using some dark age tech to bring back zombie Iron Hands.

  • @carlospomares3225
    @carlospomares3225 Рік тому +2

    If he survived I don't think the traitors would have even made it to Tera. Even if they did, the Imperial Fists would have been the Anvil and the Iron Hands will be the Hammer.

  • @mersito3955
    @mersito3955 Рік тому +1

    I hope he is the next primarch to return with his head in a glass jar futurama style.

  • @saiyanx2321
    @saiyanx2321 Рік тому

    Totally not a Warhammer comment but just wanted to give you a shoutout MajorKill for popping up in my Australia Post training Video for AP way 26. A lot of people thought you were a young Ian Thorpe but I knew the truth 😜 keep up the good work legend

  • @theswarmsquad3606
    @theswarmsquad3606 Рік тому +1

    I mean… do you enjoy getting pegged, Mr Kill?

  • @nightwaddler1278
    @nightwaddler1278 Рік тому

    I'm finishing up Fulgrim now so the timing on this vid is awesome

  • @ovidiudiumea4012
    @ovidiudiumea4012 Рік тому

    Tactical: Falling back wouldn't have made enough of a difference. They were still surrounded and were most likely to die. Corvus escaped via shadowy shenanigans and a jump pack, Vulkan lived because that's what he does best, but Ferrus and his Avernii warriors were a prime target for the traitors.
    Theoretical: If the other two Primarchs had backed him up, Fulgrim would've been dead (at the very least) and who knows what other damage they would've dealt the traitors.
    Practical: Blaming Ferrus for his own death is easy with hindsight. The Iron Hands that blame the other two primarchs are just as justified in their blame game.
    Also, the Gorgon returning would be amazing.

  • @javohiribragimov624
    @javohiribragimov624 Рік тому +1

    I wonder what would’ve happened to Guilliman as fulgrim wouldn’t be around to poison him and put him into stasis

  • @eldritchnight957
    @eldritchnight957 Рік тому +4

    Please do a video on all the living saints

  • @kodak5678
    @kodak5678 Рік тому +1

    Cool video majorkill

  • @inductivegrunt94
    @inductivegrunt94 Рік тому

    This honestly sounds like a great alternate timeline. The EC get rightfully cast aside for being useless, and the IH get more spotlight and are the fighting force they deserve to be. All in all, a great AU timeline.

  • @sunniedunbar6889
    @sunniedunbar6889 Рік тому +1

    Huh. I’d a wanted a kitted out iron boys to link up with the Salamanders, and their respective Daddies building super weapons on top of cyborg Marines.

  • @slayer6498
    @slayer6498 Рік тому +2

    Ignatius Numen used a Voltike Calvalier Not A Heavy Bolter.

  • @jarenalfred66
    @jarenalfred66 Рік тому

    I still want Manus to come back as a Necron experiment, like how dope would it be if he came back but at a preator or whatever the blanks turned into necrons are called. I still think an Iron Hands necron fusion army in canon would shake everything up and be awesome, especially if somehow it cemented a really rocky relationship between the Imperium and The Necrons.

  • @МаксимРасторгуев-ь2м

    If Ferrus Manus survived i bet what he would have become one of the most popular primachs and Iron Hands would get entire sol codex. Because he represents everything that we LOVE in WH40K. Ruthless, loyalty to the principles, noble rage, not stoping attack, a desire for revenge, controlled cruelty, strong will, and overcoming any odds by just willpower and tactics.
    I BET that he would be MUCH popular and better character. He even could have replaced one of the mainstream loyal primachs. Ferrus Manus is just badass primarch that didn't get much attention or lore.
    Ferrus says: "Flesh is weak", not because flesh itself is weak and fragile and demands replacement. But because warrior need to overcome his flesh limits by constant training. Only then warrior will unlock true power and flesh will be strong. True potential of true strength.
    And if Ferrus survived, this philosophy could have survived in the Iron Hands and this principle would made a LOT of space marine fans love them. They would have been literally represent WH40K key aspects of the loyalists. If we had this Iron Hands, Dark Angles would have looked very much bad and more insane.
    But sadly, this never happened. And we have another Iron Hands that honesty much more boring without key aspect of their primarch. And Iron Hands became a shadow of itselfs, because they fell into flesh replacement insanity. This is not strength. Overwise, this is weakness that Ferrus despised. Why do you replace your weak flesh when only YOU can make it strong? If you can't, then you are truly weak. Not your flesh. You, because you can't transform weak material into strong one.

  • @amongusgaming123
    @amongusgaming123 Рік тому

    Another interesting concept would be Rylanor not knowing about Fulgrim's death and only attracting Magnus' attention with his beacon, potentially involving a conversation between the two

  • @giventoringybanez5799
    @giventoringybanez5799 Місяць тому

    Legion of the Damned being the spirits or souls of the betrayed marines at the Istvan massacre is one of my favorite headcanons

  • @warlorddthorn4173
    @warlorddthorn4173 Рік тому +1

    I want to see one were Corvus Corax kills Lorgar as Konrad Curze is not fast enough to save him

  • @more4yourbuck
    @more4yourbuck Рік тому

    Funny enough here's a crazy one. Flugum not turning to chaos and actually saving Konrad. He was the only brother that he respected. Him meaning Fluram caring about Konrad. Even tho he saw the darkness Fulram cared.

  • @lolbots686
    @lolbots686 Рік тому

    As the 2 pheonixs fight...it was a incredible and horrific sight. The daemon of slannesh fought with grace unearthly. The other pheonix fought with a rage only a god could comprehend,a primal yell as purifying fire immolated him as he used both the emporors sword and fireblade. The ruined one looked at the battlefield from the veil.
    "...i must join him."
    "To do what is right or satisfy your rage,ferrus." A shard spoke curiously.
    "He will pay. But not that one."
    "I will join you then,lord." A dreadnought aproached to speak. The skull faced one nodded.
    As daemongrim and fulgrim fought,daemongrim chided and taunted him...but fire swirled. The sky shook with thunder as from the blast below...came the legion of the dammed...led by 2. A primarch sized warrior with iron hands,and a dreadnought of black and purple. As fulgrim sees this...a fury is renewed as he points fireblade at the daemon prince.
    "You poisoned my mind further. You defiled my sons. We killed my brother. I will deliver unto you,the deaths of all who suffered upon isstvann. I AM FULGRIM! PRIMARCH OF THE EMPORORS CHILDREN! SON OF THE EMPOROR BELOVED BY ALL! FOR...
    As guiliman joined him, fulgrim threw the emporors sword to him. There blades raised as they all roared in unison,primarchs and warriors all...
    "THE ANCIENT,AWAITS!"
    Daemongrim flinched as he laughed.
    "What bravado! More, more! Drown in your ego!" The emporors children,the legion of the dammed,the ultramarines,charged.
    10 milenia ago,isstvann was the place of betrayal. And now it would stand in redemption.

  • @abstracttrxp8621
    @abstracttrxp8621 Рік тому

    this is trippy I was wondering this when watching a previous video

  • @tedhickman6116
    @tedhickman6116 Рік тому

    "What if I enjoy being pegged?" Made me spit out my coffee.

  • @blindoutlaw
    @blindoutlaw Рік тому

    Ferrus being brought back as a soul possessing a living metal body. Like a imperial C’tan shard

  • @lsynno
    @lsynno Рік тому

    Damn I was only half-listening and the "what if i enjoy getting pegged" had my eyes actually watering.

  • @TheEyez187
    @TheEyez187 Рік тому

    0:10 - If you enjoy getting pegged, then we shall no longer refer to you as MajorKill, but should hence fore be known as Peggus Mannus!
    0:25 - Possibly incorrect. He may have been the 2nd or 3rd Primarch to die! Although one of the missing primarch's might be in the Custodian' cells beneath *E* 's palace, possibly being a cellmate to Alpharius and Omegon's triplet brother, Epsilonius!*
    * He is real in my head canon; and now maybe yours (yes you reader). How cool would it be for the setting?!

  • @irishwristwatch2487
    @irishwristwatch2487 Рік тому

    I would LOVE for that lore to have been the case. Ferrus is my favourite primarch next to Perty

  • @shrednaught5
    @shrednaught5 Рік тому

    yea mate the smile when he said "what if i enjoy getting pegged?" was probably a fat clue😂

  • @redluke8119
    @redluke8119 Рік тому +1

    Majorkill is totally getting majorsued by gw right now for sure can't wait until it's resolved so he can do his video on what's going on with minis behind the scenes

  • @ThunderQuack777
    @ThunderQuack777 Рік тому +1

    My wallet wouldn't survive if you released a dark angels major mini

  • @crowtein677
    @crowtein677 Рік тому +1

    I feel if Ferrus survived he would’ve given himself over the machine fully after realizing his temper and emotions caused him to lose so many sons