Entropic Gravity from Quantum Entanglement! | with Erik Verlinde
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- Опубліковано 4 тра 2023
- What if spacetime was not fundamental at all? In the context of thermodynamics, macroscopic quantities such as temperature, pressure and viscosity are products of the collective behaviour of numerous microscopic entities. Starting from the astounding revelation that the behaviour of black holes is governed by a family a laws which are strikingly similar to those of thermodynamics, Erik Verlinde developed a speculative framework in which spacetime itself (and perhaps all matter content of the universe) emerges from quantum information-theoretic quantities. In this picture, everything would eventually boil down to correlations, operators and entanglement, from the faintest gravitational wave to large-scale cosmological observables.
Erik Peter Verlinde is a Dutch theoretical physicist and string theorist. The Verlinde formula, which appeared in his PhD thesis and holds great importance in conformal and topological field theory, is named after him. His research deals with string theory, gravity, black holes and cosmology. Currently, he is Professor of theoretical physics at the University of Amsterdam.
[adapted from Wikipedia]
Amazing, thank you! You did a very good job interviewing Mr. Verlinde!
Thank you for this great interview. Erik Verlinde's idea of entropic gravity is the first I know that fills a yawning gap in my thinking about the world, which is in terms of "quasi-attractors" or "accretive attractors" (for lack of a better word, because they are not attractors in the strict DST sense). Following from my studies of the notion of value, there are so many things in our world that act in exact analogy to gravity or e.g. gravitational accretion of planets, but in a statistical fashion - with the added aspect of negentropically improving efficiency of populations of objects. Think a path through a forest that widens with every traveller who walks it and thus becomes even more attractive to next travellers, and eventually attracts intelligent investment in making it even better. Think money breeding more money. Or popularity of an artist making her even more popular and so on. Or a thought in our brains, starting as a small decoherence popping up in the "quantum foam" of a mind, attracting connections with affinitive neural connections and growing to be a full-fledged, consciously pursued thought, sometimes one that excessively takes control of the mind (attractors are a concept sometimes used in psychiatry). Or a meme snowballing across people's minds. If you think about, everything we can observe and name in the world comes into existence this very way. Much like matter clumped together by gravity.
But gravity has always been just this unexplained force or curvature of spacetime. Now it seems that there may be, after all, an analogy between the way gravity works and the way everything else in the world comes to be. That it might be possible to think of this statistical, logical phenomenon - encompassing physical gravity - as the basic (or just emergent from basic logic) building block for all our observable reality?
Do you think it is a line of thought worth pursuing? Have you encountered it before? Could you think of a name for such "gravitational" effects ("accretive attractors"). Other than "positive feedback" of course, because this is not exactly it. Thank you :)
Fantastic interview!
awesome conversation - great questions for Verlinde! Hearing him in conversational format is very informative. thanks
Great conversation
I've been posting this story for a while, now. Is it possible they're related?
Time is fascinating. I worked the subway stations for nearly 10 years. From one end of the city to the other. Every so often I would notice the city would be saying that, "Today just flew by" or "The day was just dragging along." How can an entire city, with no interaction with each other until they used the subway, complain about the same time paradox unless it was effected by it? Maybe a time distorted bubble the earth passes through in its revolution around the sun. Maybe random waves of time distortion hitting the earth? Maybe they're given off by the sun. Maybe they're from outside our Terran system and reach us in intervals. ???? Ti-i-i-ime, is on my side. Yes, it is!
Thanks! Good introduction to the odd-sounding theory. It makes sense intuitively. I'll need to internalize the gravity/thermodynamic identity for a while.
Interesting view points views
I have long thought that what we call Gravity is the quantum wave form collapse in a directional manner, said wave being attracted to the strongest body of Entropy. Do you think this is even remotely possible? I appreciate any and all sincere input. Cheers!
Do all the fields filling spacetime conform to the geometry of spacetime like EM for example?
Short question (didn't see this video yet): Did you and Erik Verlinde also talked about his gravity-theory in relation to the UAP phenomenon?
The Boltzmann interp of statistical thermo depends on the Newtonian reversibility of laws of motion even as they apply to atoms, so that entropy only very probably increases. Here it seems we move from the reversibility of atomic motion to deriving newtons laws of motion. This seems like circular logic, double entendre intended, since you presume reversibility from Newton in the first place. Is there any other reason to presume reversibility other than acceleration is vekicity squared, so time must have a positive sign?
Erik You stil ow us an understandable explanation of your version of gravitational attracktion.
How does entropy and entangelment warps space and time ?
Entropy of a black hole is related to the surface area of the event horizon? Does that relate to hawking idea of evaporation of the black hole? 18:43
A good scientific interview. Good you as host care comments. In a black hole increase of surface area of event horizon and an increase in space gravity balance is call for thermodynamics entropy.
A symmetry is driven by entropy . Is this symmetry make a feeling of emergent Space-time like faster than light appearance.
It is true MOND is fitting parameters, but can it be a dynamic of event horizon of black hole with a reference acceleration but that has a influence on the matter at singularity and the trap surface .
Thank you a very good science channel.
Entropic gravity could emerge from photon ∆E=hf energy, forming a new oscillation or vibration. A one-dimensional photon ∆E=hf spherical oscillation is formed by a one-dimensional spherical 4πr² surface. The wave particle duality of light and matter (electrons) is forming a blank canvas that we interact with based on the conversion factor r² as in t², Ψ², e² and C². The spherical surface forms a boundary condition or manifold with light photon ∆E=hf energy continuously transforming potential energy PE into kinetic Eₖ=½mv² energy of matter in the form of electrons. This form our ever-changing world with the movement of positive and negative charges.
If there is a smallest scale of energy, there must be a smallest scale of space, time, entropy.
@26:26 - The event horizon at the edge of the visible universe is the same event horizon that approaches when accelerating very fast. I believe the observable universe is what will change when accelerating and that they are not a different observation.
I believe there is a minimal event horizon as well, the Planck length. Just my opinions, because I haven't heard why not.
Astute observation. Space contracts in the direction of motion so yes, the entire universe would contract when accelerating to extremely high speeds.
True, both horizons have the same underpinning. There is a preferred reference frame and relativity appears because of waves 🌊
This moderator has a true gift for communicating physics principles and hypothesis to truly ignorant people like myself. I hope he does groundbreaking work in the field and goes on to fame and glory. BUT, if not, his enthusiasm, obvious acumen and exquisite communication abilities will make him the next great communicator of physics, in the Brian Greene/Sean Carroll mode, if he so chooses. Bravo.
Thank you enormously for your nice feedback, which forced a wide smile on my face. I will try not to disappoint you in the future!
@@SpaziAttorcigliati You were good in this discussion. One additional question could have been: How do you explain to a student that the notion spatial length can emerge from entanglement?
Thank you! That's indeed a very good suggestion... I'll write it down for the next time@@xjuhox
How well do these calculations function?
E=MC²=En
MC²=E=En
En=MC²=E
En=E=MC²
"En" denoting Entropy.
Communicate though gravity.
Is space-time emergent? I say yes, ken.
My idea so I get to name it! What I mean is, no one has claimed it so I'm officially calling, "dibs." Voyager 1 is now in Milky Way's interstellar time or "Mikey's Time."
"V-ger's" message has sped up now that it's outside our suns time bubble or, "Terran Time." It will be faster still when "V-ger" sends a message from beyond the Milky Way's time bubble. Then there's Outside the Local Group time bubble. So on and so on until we get outside any influence and into the, "True Interstellar Time Standard." Or, "T.I..." ;-P
Now that "V-ger" is in interstellar space, it's also in the Milky Way's STANDARD, faster moving, interstellar time or "Mikey's Time." This can be proven by turning off everything except its clock and transmitter. Have "V-ger" read time for as long as possible. They WILL show the flow of time speeds up the further away you get from any celestial bodies. Until you reach the Milky Way's time standard or "Mikey's Time."
•Our sun's time bubble: "Terran Time" we know and have measured.
•Milky Way's time bubble or "Mikey's Time." The rate/flow of TIME outside any influence but within the Milky Way: We just got there and are still figuring. Wild guess I'd say time will increase in speed, now and until V-ger is outside the Ort cloud .00007-.0007% faster, maybe. Just for reference.
•Local Group's time bubble or the rate/flow of time outside of any influence but within the Local Group: Name still open and unknown. Wild guess .08% to a couple seconds faster, maybe. Used just for reference.
•Outside any influence in the, "True Interstellar Time Standard." (or T.I...) ;-P This name is NOT up for grabs. The rate/flow of time is fastest here. (Time flows fastest here so it's best to use a motor boat and hold tight. Always applies when you're in T.I....) ;-P
A minute is a minute in all. It's the rate/flow I'm talking about. Heck, rivers of time flowing differently might explain dark energy and dark matter.
The Milky Way's Interstellar Time Standard will be known as, "Mikey's Time."
Pass it on, please and thank you.
He cracked it. Period. 👌
“The origin of momentum creation is founded on the application of energy. Momentum serves as the initial cause of pushing and pulling. The energy, emanating from the internal core of a planet, is what gives rise to momentum, commonly referred to as gravity, and not due to the planet’s size, mass, or space-time curvature. For example, when energy is applied, it generates the necessary momentum for the actions of pushing and pulling. Without the application of energy, momentum cannot be established. Consequently, force cannot be exerted for pushing and pulling, as it lacks a physical existence. This, in turn, clarifies why force is not gravity.” ~Guadalupe Guerra
Could you elaborate on that?
@@M4dMel
The God Equation
Energy x momentum = Everything
by Guadalupe Guerra
@@GuerrasLaws ohhh it's clear now, thank you.
~Aniello Visone
This was very interesting but it is obviously not true that no signal can be detected from inside a black hole. I’m not sure why people keep saying that. Gravity is a direct indication of what is in a black hole and so is the motion of suns in close proximity to the black hole. The size of the event horizon also exactly communicates what is beyond it. So there’s tons of information. 😊
When they say "information," they're implicitly referring only to information that violates the No-hair theorem; that means anything other than mass, electric charge, and angular momentum
@@user-fc8xw4fi5v Thank you for the comment, you know it. ya, I know that stuff, BUT…. There’s more you can tell about what’s going on in a very technical sense which I have actually figured out and am writing about in a book right now. I spoke with Kip Thorne about it too. Once people see it, it’s going to change everything. 🥰
@spiralsun1 well, speaking with Kip Thorne doesn't change the fact that information can't get out of the event horizon..
@@brb4903 I’m not talking about the primitive ideas of information humans currently possess. Something in the future.
The gravity of that pulls us forward. As with reading or life, things can be reinterpreted in the end with enlightening endings. What we think now can change. We know the surface characteristics of black holes but I see them differently because of everything else I see in the universe. What their role has to be because of their position and the way information itself is organized points to them. What they “are” in reality. A huge revolution in science and world view is coming. It will happen extremely quickly.
@@spiralsun1 ok, so u are one of those kind of people..
Live from Bibz
Why does entropy cause matter to aggregate instead of disperse? Seems more like an anti-entropic idea. There are hydrophobic effects of water interacting with the greasy surfaces of proteins that drive the folding of proteins to increase the entropy of water, but proteins don't collapse into black holes. Are you arguing that space-time has particles that obtain exponential increasing disorder?
I think as the universe diffuses, entropy grows exponentially hence the cosmological horizon. Space is replicating itself moving galaxies and clusters away from each other. I think this innate replication is key to understanding or conceptually forming a unified theory. It seems to me that replication is an eternal effect.
Not sure if this is how he applies entropy as in your example. But concerning your question, gravity increases entropy by attraction. In gravity entropy is opposite to that of gases. At least from what I read in Road to Reality by Roger Penrose. Go check it out 👍
The deep reason is that the smaller the radius from a source mass, the greater the entropy increase for actualizing a test mass within a Compton wavelength of that radius. This yields an entropic "force" pointing towards the source mass, and that force is greater, the closer the test mass is to the source mass. See my paper with A. Schlatter for specifics, "Gravity from transactions: fulfilling the entropic gravity program," in Journal of Physics Communications, IOP Science, 10.1088/2399-6528/acd6d7.
@@ruthkastner6248 Thank you! I'll try reading this when I have the time.
Because chemical bonds increase entropy and mass. As you add more matter, mass and entropy grow. Thus, gravity grows.
I really like the theory of Verlinde because it derives gravity from even more fundemental laws - which is, in a sense, beautiful to me.
However, I stumbeled on "retarded gravity" recently as well, which seems to be able to explain the rotation speed of galaxies and clusters without any dark matter.
Afaik, this is achieved by setting the speed of light as given for gravitational effects.
So what I am wondering now: are the "retarded" gravitional effects also derivable from entropic gravity theory?
jfc the crackpot infestation in the comment section 😇
true
How about this? Dark Energy is EQUAL to Energy plus TIME, for our purposes here, "HEAVY TIME."
Mira, look, we see this electron orbit however many times a minute. We set that as our base reading, right? For our plain of existence, anyway. However, in these pockets of, "heavy time," that same electron now has readings of a billion times a minute because time is HEAVY here and passes a billion times faster. Or, energy where there shouldn't be energy / dark energy / Heavy Time. See, in that same minute to us, that electron aged a billion times faster and therefore has given off readings of dark energy. Dark energy IS "HEAVY TIME." It's the difference in TIME that we're seeing! Maybe. The light from these galaxies have been aged by going through pockets of dark energy or "heavy time." Numbers used for reference only. TI-I-I-IME IS ON MY SIDE! YES, IT IS!
Now we look at the other side of the coin, dark matter. Pockets of dark matter are actually pockets of "LIGHT TIME."
Mira, look, if heavy time is faster pockets of time. It stands to reason, light time would be slower pockets of time, right? Making our base electron seem to stand still. Get a pocket full of seemingly motionless nothing and you get a pocket of starving dark matter. In this case, "starving," or slower pockets in time is the same as creating a vacuum in space. Since this pocket of "Light time" is "starving" and everything outside this pocket of dark matter is in a "heavier time," it makes it appear dark matter is attracting when really it's just a vacuum, IN TIME, trying to equalize.
Making it stand to reason, by my, "I'm not smart enough to give anything more than this simplified reasoning, that Dark Matter is "LIGHT TIME" and Dark Energy is "HEAVY TIME." Maybe. Now think about this. As light travels through the universe and passes through these pockets or rivers of Heavy Time or Light Time, doesn't that alter that particular beam of light? Doesn't that beam of light that is say 40 million years old now look like it's 100 million light years away? Or vice versa, a 100 million years old beam of light now looks 40 million light years away. If I'm right, it would explain why these 6 "old" galaxies are being discovered. Also, if I'm right and someone proves it, you must name it after me and give me a cut of the Nobel prize winnings. Pass it on please. and thank you.
P.S. I may have gotten the names, LIGHT and HEAVY, backwards. Thanks again and don't worry. Where I come from, crazy is a compliment.
;-P
I watched this twice and it really didn't answer the question.
I am extremely sorry: if the issue was not explored enough, if too little space was given to entropic gravity itself, it is only due to my personal deficiencies as an interviewer. I promise I will think deeply about you feedback! Meanwhile, I hope you’ll keep following us.
Sorry, it could have just been my understanding. Nonetheless this was an excellent interview.
@@SpaziAttorcigliati I'm in the middle and you are great. Giving chance to average people to understand (more or less). I hope that in the second half you will touch what would be the implications if this would be true. Eg how to tame the gravity ;-)
Erik is not very good at explaining his theory, good that we have the interviewer to help us a bit. Erik should work on his presentation skills and also show a bit more enthusiasm.
He should keep doing what he does best. Not everyone need waste their time teaching. Saying this as someone relegated to teaching others to be better than me.