Don't forget to join the Keo and Zels WhatsApp Channel here: whatsapp.com/channel/0029Vaiq92mCRs1imbH5u009 You can also listen to the Pod on Spotify: open.spotify.com/episode/0hIymY26WWzGI3n59ny27P?si=7X1t0ucRQDeUDZO-s0sgTA
A rubbish coach like Heyneke should not be giving his opinion on Manie or the boks. His Bullsboks was one of the worst sides to watch not to mention he didn't win anything
I am Argentine, I live in Buenos Aires, I am a Boks fan, I didnt went to Santiago del Estero because is too far and expensive from here. On Saturday I had a mix of feelings. 💔🇦🇷🇿🇦I still can't believe the result.🫣. By the way the music and the accent are more Mexican than Argentinian.😂Beyond that, thank you for your words.🫶🏻
Well done for your teams brilliant win. I have toured Argentina once and it's a beautiful country and I love your friendlfrpeople.May the best team win this Saturday.
A friend and I had the privilege to watch the game in Santiago. Absolutely incredible experience with some really vocal supporters. Probably the only springbok fans in our section and we made our voices heard. Stadium would go dead quite after the Bokke would score and then go absolutely mad when los pumas scored. Absolute incredible experience I’ll never forget. Argentina definitely the better side on the day and with the home support they dominated in attack. Looking forward to the game in Nelspruit.
@@fomofud9479 wild, absolutely wild. The noise in the stadium when Manie took that final kick. But they were all really good to us after the game, all wanted photos with us and get our bok jerseys. Argentines like a late night 😂
@kalebrawlins2612 ha ha, that's awesome, so good to hear that you were so welcomed. The rugby community is build different. I think you may have just inspired me to put Argentina on my list! Thanks boet :)
Whot the f7ck is this captian. He hardly gets elected for the Boks but he ended up being captain last Saturday ffs. How absurd is this, it's like Rassie gets a brain freeze sometimes and other times he's a genius. Wtf is going on omg?😮😮😮😮
My wife and I were fortunate to fly to São Paulo direct from Cape Town and then onto Buenos Aires last week. We stayed in Palermo and ate red meat for three days before we transferred to Santiago del Estero on Friday. Expecting it to be Argentina Bloem - it’s actually more like Lusaka. We were a bit bang to put our jerseys on too early, so about three hours before the game and after a couple GNTs we made the plunge. As soon as we donned our jerseys we were seen. (In a good way) we were treated like celebrities by all the local fans who wanted to swap caps, jerseys, take photos. The gees outside the stadium was insane. Think CT, Durban, Loftus combined - we managed to smash a quick 4 beers in the hour before the game. No queuing - and for proper fresh draft beer. That was lucky and a saving grace - as the gins were making us very talkative. Inside the ground the atmosphere was amazing. The crowd have such an effect on the state of play. We silenced them for the first 15-20 - I reckon if we didn’t get that yellow and put a little daylight between us, it could have been a different story. The Argies went ballistic on the final whistle but were very gracious. And still wanted pictures with Bok supporters all the way home.
One of the best chats you guys have done. Just full of juicy insights - brilliantly articulated! Ya, I always thought that losing Nienaber was a massive blow for us. Our defense has always been 'our thing'...I just hope that our defensive system is not being compromised by Tonyball that much (along with wrecking our usual, dependable game plan). Having said that, we did stop the ABs from scoring a try in the Cape Town game. Also great point about our core WC winning players being a cut above the rest. As an audience, we often get too carried away with the new shiny players coming through, maybe forgetting how those core players are the Real McCoy.
Probably right, but not always. Certainly you need more. Argentina played several years around Hugo Porta, and we were not able to beat the Tier 1 teams, except for some epic ocasions.
Thanks gents! Couple of great points with the long term plans and current tactics.. but,, when the kick is 38m just off the right hand upright basically in front of the stix and you are trusted with the kicking duties in the Springbok jersey You HAVE to slot it when the game is on the line despite the pressure!
Hey! Coment from Argentina! We are very proud of the team but also very confident in the tools, coaches and players that we have. Contemponi is showing little signals of being a good coach and most of our players are playing in very good teams all over europe. We have the tools and a good leader. We can continue improving. Very nice program and thanks for considering the argentinian audience
I am tired of "stealing" wins. Trying to snatch victory from the Jaws of defeat, 1 point wins etc. I want to feel like my team is the better team on the field, and when we win, we deserve to win. I don't know what needs to change, but our defense this year has been terrible. Sincerely... A Salty South African
@choccym...Wow, we Bok supporters do have a fickle memory. We are basically going to win 5 out of 6 TRC games, and still it is not good enough. I honestly think fans like you are completely delusional. We have never played this well in our history, but still not good enough for fans like you.
Hear Hear ... is that not what we as the public deserve... we stood by them... we had to suffer 57-0...we are clearly the better team.. we could have won the All blacks by 15 both games...We should play like world champs... untoiuchable.
The heart of this team has been together for years - DDA, Eben, Siya, Frans, Cheslin, PSDT, and was nurtured by Jacques and Rassie. We took the heart out of this team for that game in Argentina. And have been missing Jacques more than we'd like to admit. The question is where will the new heart of the bokke come from? I'm not sure the current approach is working. We are moving away from our DNA.
Great podcast. I wish we had something like this in Argentina (there might be one here, but the algorithm doesn't show it to me). Btw, minute 14, it's like imitating an Australian using an American (US) accent. Guitars and that accent are more Mexican than Argentine.
Speaking of transparent, Salmaan Moerat didn't contribute like a captain should. Look at Montoya, constantly talking to the ref in a respectful manner highlighting issues.
Every week I agree with what these guys say more, this attacking gameplan is ruining our defence and our DNA, we've been bailed out by our forwards most games this year
Nah you have to evolve your game. It took Rassie a dew months to turn a pathetic team into WC Champs. It is the right time to experiment. Also our forwards getting better handling skills is not a bad thing, we can at anytime dial the attack down from a 10 to a 7. For the Boks to be consistent outside of WC you need more than just forward play.
A moment of appreciation for Zel’s level headed take on the result, blooding new players and he’s analysis of the average age for the Boks come the next World Cup. Credit where it’s due, you’ve taken a different perspective on this whilst everyone else is losing their rag.
Let us not forget that at 65 minutes he missed touch from a penalty award. Instead of a lineout 10 mtrs out , we had a defensive scrum in line with his kick. He just does not have BMT, he also did not setup any great plays, instead he ran sideways to the touchline cramping our backline and allowing Argentina to easily cover us.
Bro, listen to the show again. I've been listening to Keo and Zells for a long time and I don't think they have been critical of Rassie and Jacques. They love Rassie and Jacques but are definitely critical of Tony ball, especially Zells.
4:18 Manie was subbed at 28 minutes against England in the semi, not against France in the quarters. He got two of his conversions + missed one and went off at 45 minutes for the France game.
They were all rubbish watch full revamp for Saturday. Mapimpi won’t play. Van Staden might play only off the bench. The team and starting team we know who it will be just a question over 9. Williams or Jaden to start.
@@nickbacon5314 I rewatched last night. Van Staden actually did many good things. But obviously that missed tackle directly led to the 1 try which is very frustrating. And Moerat has zero Captaining moral boost as it seems to me. They were nowhere once under pressure. Bad choices. Manie just isn't good enough as well. It just is what it is.
Not sure why Jaden H is not taking the kicks, he was pretty damn good at junior level knocking them over from everywhere as I recall - moreso than his boet. Actually played a darn good flyhalf game too - carried his Durban school team to top 5 nationally.
That is true. So crazy I didn't realise what a generational player Monty was but I came into rugby around that time 2007. And Butch and him were the perfect mesh for each other.
That is my reaction as well .. how can yoju expect a guy who has had basically no game time in the springbok jersey this season..... to handle the pressure like a miracle worker when the whole team left us down
Why does nobody mention the heat. It was insanely hot. You play a structured slow game, like in the rain. Zels, this time you’re not negative. You were realistic and honest in your evaluation. Agreed with what you said today. Love the show. You guys play well off each other. Silly and serious. Like it.
I just watched the highlights of the 2019 RWC final against England… it instantly lifted my mood 😂… the boys were so fresh faced back then… The Xhosa commentary is awesome 👏🏻
Because each player has a role and responsibility. And they can and will be called upon at any point during that 80 minute period. Test match rugby is a bunch of “moments”. A clutch kick, big tackle, huge fend. Taking those moments is what separates good players from great players
@@mpilodigitalmarketing But the panelists say this game should have been won, so meaning it wasn’t as competitive according to their view. Doesn’t matter how long you’ve been watching, we were 17-0 up at some point. That’s not competitive. And for a team that can defend like us, once we are 17-0 up nobody should ever be able to catch up. So, taking that into consideration my question is still relevant. Putting the blame on Manie when the whole team, messed up is unfair on the man.
I think Zels put the mockers on the Boks when he said the Argies by 20 😅 Zels in your defence, your analysis is great. The Tony Brown style of playing, will not work against the Argies. Their back line is better than ours with the TB style of playing.
Our defense is definitely not the same as what it was. Secondly, our guys struggled in that heat more than the Pumas. Saturday, we are going north with temperatures in the mid-30s. I am not sure if this will be a comfortable win for the boks. I hope I am wrong.
I think we will thank mannie he did us a favour in the group stage by missing we lost and avoided a wounded ABs team manie won us a world cup thanks Manie
With the caliber we have in this squad, i feel we should be thrashing sides! Yes, we are winning and this is the best side in Bok history, but one gets the feeling of frustration rather than elation! We keep experimenting for the world cups etc, but yet i bet the side will be completely different to what we dealing with now to 2027. Lets play the best, all the time with minor changes and tweaks! Let the side build together, let them just become a legendary side! The injuries will happen and the inexperienced will get their chance.. Play for the present, the future doesn't exist yet!
I've watched a lot of analysis on Mannie after this weekend. And i don't know how Zels did it, but he actually got it spot on for once. We didn't learn anything new about Mannie in that situation. We knew it last year already. That being said, the conversation does need to change.
Firstly, kudos to Argentina, they played phenomenal rugby and deserved the win. On to the Bok performance. Something stuck with me after watching Chasing the Sun 2, and that was Willie le Roux saying that people don't think about the toll that a 7-1 split takes on the backline players. It's not just the injury risk, you expect your backline defence to hold for a full 80 minutes without fresh legs. Now we had a 6-2 split, but the fact remains, when you know it's going to 37'C and you're playing a team who likes running rugby, your backline defence is going to crumble due to attrition. The 6-2, the 7-1, definitely has a place and it's great innovative coaching, but horses for courses. Pollard is a phenomenal BMT player, but his fitness was concerning. He was visibly gassed. First-time tackling and tackle dominance was a concern, highlighting, what we all know, that PSD is an immense and irreplaceable talent in the Springbok team, same with Kolbe and DeAllende. The Puma's attacking structure was the perfect antidote for a rush defence, with the backline first receivers standing deep with the second receivers running in from even deeper. Rassie can say that it shouldn't have been on Manie Libbok to make that final kick but let's face it, world rugby is more closely contested than ever and your goal kicker will routinely be put in a position to make those high-pressure kicks. From France, England, and the ABs, right through the RC (except Australia) Springbok victories have been tight affairs. You must have a goal kicker who can perform under pressure.
It was a bad game from the coaches box at the start when we were up 14 - nil and to take a penalty killed our momentum dead the players managed to scrap back than to take off pollard not even move him to 12 or something in case kicking is needed is a complete oversight.
Rassie turning when Manie stepped up showed he cannot stomach watching Manie kicking at goal when it matters, Why put him there when you don't trust him, and obviously Manie knows there's a lack of trust in him, a player always knows, thus making it worse.
He should have been subbed earlier against France, and he never should have been picked for the game against England. I was very surprised and worried when I saw Manie's name on the team sheet as 10 for England, and he nearly cost us dearly.
Hi guys, first of all i love your show! I love the support and criticism shows people care! Regarding the tac, the message actually came from our on field leaders communicating to management that the gameplan we started off with (1st 20 min) was too demanding on the players given the 36° heat. We had to adapt and change a few things due the heat otherwise we would've burnt out by 45-60min mark. Now you know! Lekke! 😉
A defence strategy only works for so long before the opposition studies it and finds a way to break it. If Nienaber was in the coaching he would still need to change it because that defence has been found out and only would work in straight line cover defence where like we saw on Saturday the Pumas are adopting a cluster attack, whatever the correct terminology is but it makes it much more difficult to defend against as it's a bunch of close players, short quick ball to runners on a good line. To bring the players in to defend when there's a player down will create chaos and thats what we saw. It really is a chess game.
There's something off with Pollard's conditioning, which nobody's talking about. Since the first Ireland test he just falls off after 50 to 60mins. I think Rassie knows it and is shielding him by not keeping him on.
I've been giving Zels gears, but I think he was on point on this show. I still think we need to give Tonyball more time, but I agree with Zels that we can't experiment with players and strategy. Rassie had to take responsibility here. I don't think the Marcos etc have time to improve before world cup. I'm not convinced on Salmaan at lock. I don't think Cobus was that bad. Lots of Boks were tired.
What worries me is that we win games but we never win convincingly. We never or rarely bump teams with 10 or 20 points. That's why the world doesnt really think we are the best. They always think we just got lucky.
I don't think your bok team is amazing, they just good but beatable by any team in the top 5,so don't feel bad about it, they a long way of that team of richie, but then again so is any team in the world now, my team the AB's are pretty average and is still in top 3, that says a lot.
@@ho6277 In our last 20 games we’ve gone 17-3, having only been beaten by Ireland and Argentina (the latter with a third-string team). The aggregate points in those losses is just 7. We’ve literally beaten every single team in the top 10 in the last year despite the fact that we’ve consistently been missing half a dozen key players to injury.
Spending around 10 mins on Mannie. Very little chat about the poor line outs play during this competition, our inability in getting 50/50 ball, backline running diagonally.
The Boks have won 5 Lost 1 and I am still waiting for a great performance over 80 mins. Ricky is right, an 80% kicker is essential. Tony Ball+Newbies is defensive naivety
I am not sure we would be winning playing a box kick after 3 attempts to take it up every where except for the oppositions 22. Not only boring but hit and miss and not easy to play with that intensity week in and week out.
Hi guys....definitely one of two best rugby podcasts around.....the other one is Mark in Mexico.....just glad you not part of the trolls.....blaming Manie only. Zels....Joe public are trolls 😂
During the play-offs in the RWC, barring the final, Manie started and Pollard would come in and sweep up... why Rassie opted for the other direction against Argentina is beyond me! Just doesn't make any sense
One reason why a sports event is so enthralling is that the unexpected can happen and the underdog can win. And these games are often won and lost on small margins between the top ten or so teams. With a limited number of games available in a season, the need to win on the day, build a team for the next world cup, and develop new (and sometimes innovative) tactics, it is a hugely difficult task for the team management and the players. Go Rassie! Hy weet wat ons nie weet nie!
I think Manie should borrow André Pretorius' sand method and start drawing a sand line for directions when kicking to poles. It worked perfectly for André.
Zels, Boks are back to back World Champions. No one will remember a loss to Argentina, and you learn more from one loss than five wins. This is the time to roll the dice, you create dynamism and adaptability that will win another world cup. I'm an English man, and an Eddie Jones fan, but you can see what happened to the 2019 English team that murdered the ABs in the semis, but got squashed by Boks in final, adaptability has to be ingrained. Rassie sees that and has a plan. It's painful to see his foresight from the outside, but you should trust in his process as a Bok fan!
Good to experiment now and know by 2027. However, it seems Rassie is missing Nienaber for defense, conditioning and counter balance (temper) to his ideas. After the first 10 minutes I pondered whether the Boks are going to slaughter the Pumas or if the opening minutes will come back to haunt them. Kudos to Argentina. Jordan Hendrikse & Masuku may pip Libbok. Libbok is a liability on defense and kicking. Hendrikse may not have the flair but he seems consistent and offers option on flyhalf, center & fullback. There are other tighhead locks who should get tested above Moerat like Rahl & Venter. Or just draft that 18 year old monster from Monnas and let him walk in Eben's shadow.
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A rubbish coach like Heyneke should not be giving his opinion on Manie or the boks. His Bullsboks was one of the worst sides to watch not to mention he didn't win anything
Ox playing 65 mins in that heat and at that level - legend
He played his heart out
there was extra cake waiting
Mike Tyson's jab against Marvis Frazier or Mike Spinks was very effective 😂
I am Argentine, I live in Buenos Aires, I am a Boks fan, I didnt went to Santiago del Estero because is too far and expensive from here. On Saturday I had a mix of feelings. 💔🇦🇷🇿🇦I still can't believe the result.🫣. By the way the music and the accent are more Mexican than Argentinian.😂Beyond that, thank you for your words.🫶🏻
Well done for your teams brilliant win. I have toured Argentina once and it's a beautiful country and I love your friendlfrpeople.May the best team win this Saturday.
You guys deserved the win, love Argentina, from Saffer in Australia
How much is bus ticket to Santiago Estero?
@@hanoitripper1809 It is approximately 1100 km from here so flying is the best option.
He's not trying to be Argentinian in his accent.😊
Keo's knowledge, Zels' insights and analogies; together with lots of laughs. Probably the greatest rugby show in the world. Boks by 10 believer.
they both talk utter dribble after the fact and both suffer terribly from Hindsight bias which makes them not even credible .
@@jonathonmerson93ag sharp net Jonathon en gaan terug wesrand toe
A friend and I had the privilege to watch the game in Santiago. Absolutely incredible experience with some really vocal supporters. Probably the only springbok fans in our section and we made our voices heard. Stadium would go dead quite after the Bokke would score and then go absolutely mad when los pumas scored.
Absolute incredible experience I’ll never forget. Argentina definitely the better side on the day and with the home support they dominated in attack.
Looking forward to the game in Nelspruit.
How are the local rugby fans? Good night out after the game?
@@fomofud9479 wild, absolutely wild. The noise in the stadium when Manie took that final kick. But they were all really good to us after the game, all wanted photos with us and get our bok jerseys.
Argentines like a late night 😂
Lekker mate, glad you enjoyed 👍
I hope you had an asado and a few Quilme beers.
@kalebrawlins2612 ha ha, that's awesome, so good to hear that you were so welcomed. The rugby community is build different. I think you may have just inspired me to put Argentina on my list! Thanks boet :)
Salmaan did not show us he deserves to be captain, sadly.
Thought he was off injured as only seen him running out and the national anthem?
Whot the f7ck is this captian. He hardly gets elected for the Boks but he ended up being captain last Saturday ffs. How absurd is this, it's like Rassie gets a brain freeze sometimes and other times he's a genius. Wtf is going on omg?😮😮😮😮
Was pick because of pressure from the ANC
He shows he doesn't deserve to be in the squad. Period
It’s really difficult to see what the coaching staff sees in him that makes him worthy of a bok armband
My wife and I were fortunate to fly to São Paulo direct from Cape Town and then onto Buenos Aires last week. We stayed in Palermo and ate red meat for three days before we transferred to Santiago del Estero on Friday. Expecting it to be Argentina Bloem - it’s actually more like Lusaka. We were a bit bang to put our jerseys on too early, so about three hours before the game and after a couple GNTs we made the plunge. As soon as we donned our jerseys we were seen. (In a good way) we were treated like celebrities by all the local fans who wanted to swap caps, jerseys, take photos. The gees outside the stadium was insane. Think CT, Durban, Loftus combined - we managed to smash a quick 4 beers in the hour before the game. No queuing - and for proper fresh draft beer. That was lucky and a saving grace - as the gins were making us very talkative. Inside the ground the atmosphere was amazing. The crowd have such an effect on the state of play. We silenced them for the first 15-20 - I reckon if we didn’t get that yellow and put a little daylight between us, it could have been a different story. The Argies went ballistic on the final whistle but were very gracious. And still wanted pictures with Bok supporters all the way home.
One of the best chats you guys have done. Just full of juicy insights - brilliantly articulated! Ya, I always thought that losing Nienaber was a massive blow for us. Our defense has always been 'our thing'...I just hope that our defensive system is not being compromised by Tonyball that much (along with wrecking our usual, dependable game plan). Having said that, we did stop the ABs from scoring a try in the Cape Town game. Also great point about our core WC winning players being a cut above the rest. As an audience, we often get too carried away with the new shiny players coming through, maybe forgetting how those core players are the Real McCoy.
I'm actually backing what you say 100% Zelz, it's not being negative, it's facts.
The episode we've all been waiting for.
That staring pack looked gassed, only Ox and Nortje stood out
Nortjie still missed alot of tackles though
Ox was a beast
@@lutherluka8709true dat
He did same wc against England
I thought they looked more flat footed and confused.
To quote Naas Botha, "Pick your kicker and then form the team around him."
Probably right, but not always. Certainly you need more. Argentina played several years around Hugo Porta, and we were not able to beat the Tier 1 teams, except for some epic ocasions.
Thanks gents! Couple of great points with the long term plans and current tactics.. but,, when the kick is 38m just off the right hand upright basically in front of the stix and you are trusted with the kicking duties in the Springbok jersey
You HAVE to slot it when the game is on the line despite the pressure!
This was by far the best I have ever seen you guys, been fascinated throughout and feel you guys are on it big time! Thank you ..
Hey! Coment from Argentina! We are very proud of the team but also very confident in the tools, coaches and players that we have. Contemponi is showing little signals of being a good coach and most of our players are playing in very good teams all over europe. We have the tools and a good leader. We can continue improving.
Very nice program and thanks for considering the argentinian audience
Fantastic show as always👏 Analysis and insights are spot on. Watching weekly here in Canada 🇨🇦 Boks by 10 in Nelspruit 💪💚
I am tired of "stealing" wins. Trying to snatch victory from the Jaws of defeat, 1 point wins etc. I want to feel like my team is the better team on the field, and when we win, we deserve to win. I don't know what needs to change, but our defense this year has been terrible. Sincerely... A Salty South African
@choccym...Wow, we Bok supporters do have a fickle memory. We are basically going to win 5 out of 6 TRC games, and still it is not good enough. I honestly think fans like you are completely delusional. We have never played this well in our history, but still not good enough for fans like you.
Yall one the World Cup by 1 point
Its not like that anymore. Teams in top 5 are very close to each other. Look at the data.
Hear Hear ... is that not what we as the public deserve... we stood by them... we had to suffer 57-0...we are clearly the better team.. we could have won the All blacks by 15 both games...We should play like world champs... untoiuchable.
Yeah I’m salty too
The heart of this team has been together for years - DDA, Eben, Siya, Frans, Cheslin, PSDT, and was nurtured by Jacques and Rassie. We took the heart out of this team for that game in Argentina. And have been missing Jacques more than we'd like to admit. The question is where will the new heart of the bokke come from? I'm not sure the current approach is working. We are moving away from our DNA.
Really enjoyed this pod boys, eloquent/funny and spot on with discussion points
Great podcast. I wish we had something like this in Argentina (there might be one here, but the algorithm doesn't show it to me).
Btw, minute 14, it's like imitating an Australian using an American (US) accent. Guitars and that accent are more Mexican than Argentine.
Speaking of transparent, Salmaan Moerat didn't contribute like a captain should. Look at Montoya, constantly talking to the ref in a respectful manner highlighting issues.
Salmaan absolutely has no presence
Mate! Jacques is on a recci! We are just studying the Irish and AB systems first hand.
Argies have played amazing TONY BALL this Championship...
It's really NZ ball - Tony Brown is trying to implement a New Zealand type of attacking strategy.
Every week I agree with what these guys say more, this attacking gameplan is ruining our defence and our DNA, we've been bailed out by our forwards most games this year
Fully agree
100%
Nah you have to evolve your game. It took Rassie a dew months to turn a pathetic team into WC Champs.
It is the right time to experiment. Also our forwards getting better handling skills is not a bad thing, we can at anytime dial the attack down from a 10 to a 7.
For the Boks to be consistent outside of WC you need more than just forward play.
A moment of appreciation for Zel’s level headed take on the result, blooding new players and he’s analysis of the average age for the Boks come the next World Cup. Credit where it’s due, you’ve taken a different perspective on this whilst everyone else is losing their rag.
Let us not forget that at 65 minutes he missed touch from a penalty award. Instead of a lineout 10 mtrs out , we had a defensive scrum in line with his kick. He just does not have BMT, he also did not setup any great plays, instead he ran sideways to the touchline cramping our backline and allowing Argentina to easily cover us.
Don’t forget he couldnt even clean out a replacement scrum half in the last play of the game
Facts!
Facts!
Rassie should tune into this show. Some really good questions raised.
😉 you never know who's in the crowd!
Yes a 2 time WC , BIL series and RC coach can learn a lot from a bunch of couch potatoes that have been critical of him and Jaques since they started.
Bro, listen to the show again. I've been listening to Keo and Zells for a long time and I don't think they have been critical of Rassie and Jacques. They love Rassie and Jacques but are definitely critical of Tony ball, especially Zells.
@@pierreleroux2910 Zels believes we are drifting away from what makes us dominant.
you dont think he knows !
You guys are the best ... period!!
4:18 Manie was subbed at 28 minutes against England in the semi, not against France in the quarters. He got two of his conversions + missed one and went off at 45 minutes for the France game.
Thanks.
Why is nobody talking about Mampimpi's tackling or the lack thereof.
They were all garbage. Pollard tackles badly, Van Staden missed the tackle that led to the one try. It was shocking and unacceptable
Both wings were poor. Kurtley is badly off form. I would have travelled with Moodie instead.
Moodie YES! Mapimpi NO! We were missing DDA as he is WORLD CLASS IN ATTACK AND DEFENSE!
They were all rubbish watch full revamp for Saturday. Mapimpi won’t play. Van Staden might play only off the bench.
The team and starting team we know who it will be just a question over 9. Williams or Jaden to start.
@@nickbacon5314 I rewatched last night. Van Staden actually did many good things. But obviously that missed tackle directly led to the 1 try which is very frustrating. And Moerat has zero Captaining moral boost as it seems to me. They were nowhere once under pressure. Bad choices. Manie just isn't good enough as well. It just is what it is.
Hands down BEST rugby podcast, and show in general!!
Love Zels consistency in his comments.
Not sure why Jaden H is not taking the kicks, he was pretty damn good at junior level knocking them over from everywhere as I recall - moreso than his boet. Actually played a darn good flyhalf game too - carried his Durban school team to top 5 nationally.
He was practicing this week.
Our fetching skills and running support lag behind most nations. Definitely need to improve in that area.
Agree
In 2007 Butch played 10 but Monty did the Goal kicking at 15
Ya but we can't make excuses for Mannie anymore. From the world cup til now he didn't sort his kicking out
Unfortunately, Monty's retired now
The option of Manie and Sacha exist... Soon.
Butch James could also kick.
That is true. So crazy I didn't realise what a generational player Monty was but I came into rugby around that time 2007. And Butch and him were the perfect mesh for each other.
Everyone having a melt-down about Manie yet missing the big picture of where the Boks are at this point in time of their development.
Agreed 100%, unfortunately Manies talents will be forgotten and his 'legacy' will be the guy who missed goal kicks. Unfair from Rassie
That is my reaction as well .. how can yoju expect a guy who has had basically no game time in the springbok jersey this season..... to handle the pressure like a miracle worker when the whole team left us down
Zels is spot on. Experimenting with players and tactics simultaneously is iffy. BUT I’m still placing faith in Rassies big picture. 🙏
This is the first time i actually fully agree with what’s being said 🤣😭😊
Firstly totally agree with you guys!!
You guys are such great chemistry!!
Had me in 😂😂
Why does nobody mention the heat. It was insanely hot. You play a structured slow game, like in the rain. Zels, this time you’re not negative. You were realistic and honest in your evaluation. Agreed with what you said today. Love the show. You guys play well off each other. Silly and serious. Like it.
Nelspruit will also be 35 degrees Saturday
Is it not hot in SA??? The excuses keep coming...
It was the same Brisbane very unit .
I really enjoy listening to your contrasting views - and despite that, agree with both of you.
I just watched the highlights of the 2019 RWC final against England… it instantly lifted my mood 😂… the boys were so fresh faced back then… The Xhosa commentary is awesome 👏🏻
Guys you are both spoton,great show
A more relevant question is…why does it need to come down to the last kick?
Games against competitive teams usually do bro. And I've been watching rugby for more than 20 years.
Because each player has a role and responsibility. And they can and will be called upon at any point during that 80 minute period.
Test match rugby is a bunch of “moments”. A clutch kick, big tackle, huge fend. Taking those moments is what separates good players from great players
@@mpilodigitalmarketing But the panelists say this game should have been won, so meaning it wasn’t as competitive according to their view. Doesn’t matter how long you’ve been watching, we were 17-0 up at some point. That’s not competitive. And for a team that can defend like us, once we are 17-0 up nobody should ever be able to catch up. So, taking that into consideration my question is still relevant. Putting the blame on Manie when the whole team, messed up is unfair on the man.
Because it is TEST rugby with small margins. You either pass or fail the test
Spot on ... I agree
I think Zels put the mockers on the Boks when he said the Argies by 20 😅 Zels in your defence, your analysis is great. The Tony Brown style of playing, will not work against the Argies. Their back line is better than ours with the TB style of playing.
Zels is always on point 🎉
Not when it comes to forecasting the score last Saturday!
Zel completely on the money. Most grounded SA pundit out there.
Dankie guys! Albert CT
Our defense is definitely not the same as what it was. Secondly, our guys struggled in that heat more than the Pumas. Saturday, we are going north with temperatures in the mid-30s. I am not sure if this will be a comfortable win for the boks. I hope I am wrong.
I think we will thank mannie he did us a favour in the group stage by missing we lost and avoided a wounded ABs team manie won us a world cup thanks Manie
Excellent show boys! I wish i could sit around a fire and discuss Zels negativety, but generally brilliant!
Moerat and mannie experiment over terrible
100%. Cant believe Rassie sees moerat as a future captain. Its embarrassing
epic content as always, thank you.
Great show guys!
Zelim nailed it on the Manie issue👌👌👌👌👌
With the caliber we have in this squad, i feel we should be thrashing sides! Yes, we are winning and this is the best side in Bok history, but one gets the feeling of frustration rather than elation! We keep experimenting for the world cups etc, but yet i bet the side will be completely different to what we dealing with now to 2027. Lets play the best, all the time with minor changes and tweaks! Let the side build together, let them just become a legendary side! The injuries will happen and the inexperienced will get their chance.. Play for the present, the future doesn't exist yet!
I've watched a lot of analysis on Mannie after this weekend. And i don't know how Zels did it, but he actually got it spot on for once. We didn't learn anything new about Mannie in that situation. We knew it last year already. That being said, the conversation does need to change.
Manie has great hands and skills and is great for new running style but why use him to kick. Start with him this week and just score tries.
Agree!
Firstly, kudos to Argentina, they played phenomenal rugby and deserved the win.
On to the Bok performance. Something stuck with me after watching Chasing the Sun 2, and that was Willie le Roux saying that people don't think about the toll that a 7-1 split takes on the backline players. It's not just the injury risk, you expect your backline defence to hold for a full 80 minutes without fresh legs. Now we had a 6-2 split, but the fact remains, when you know it's going to 37'C and you're playing a team who likes running rugby, your backline defence is going to crumble due to attrition. The 6-2, the 7-1, definitely has a place and it's great innovative coaching, but horses for courses.
Pollard is a phenomenal BMT player, but his fitness was concerning. He was visibly gassed. First-time tackling and tackle dominance was a concern, highlighting, what we all know, that PSD is an immense and irreplaceable talent in the Springbok team, same with Kolbe and DeAllende. The Puma's attacking structure was the perfect antidote for a rush defence, with the backline first receivers standing deep with the second receivers running in from even deeper.
Rassie can say that it shouldn't have been on Manie Libbok to make that final kick but let's face it, world rugby is more closely contested than ever and your goal kicker will routinely be put in a position to make those high-pressure kicks. From France, England, and the ABs, right through the RC (except Australia) Springbok victories have been tight affairs. You must have a goal kicker who can perform under pressure.
That rant from 16:30 -19:13 is exactly why i love this podcast. Zels is spot on
Some really good perspectives like looking at the game without the score
Elrich Louw is the real deal.
It was a bad game from the coaches box at the start when we were up 14 - nil and to take a penalty killed our momentum dead the players managed to scrap back than to take off pollard not even move him to 12 or something in case kicking is needed is a complete oversight.
Rassie turning when Manie stepped up showed he cannot stomach watching Manie kicking at goal when it matters, Why put him there when you don't trust him, and obviously Manie knows there's a lack of trust in him, a player always knows, thus making it worse.
Yeah, it's all Rassie's fault that Manie is a rotten kicker.
tbf he did that in Wellington when Polly lined up the kick to draw the game in 2019
Nice to see other cork people listening in. Good observation
Agree with Zels, when not playing with our strongest team we should dial back the expansiveness and focus on the basics.
Mannie wasn't subbed in 30 minutes against France Keo, that was against England. The France game he was subbed 5 minutes into the second half.
He should have been subbed earlier against France, and he never should have been picked for the game against England. I was very surprised and worried when I saw Manie's name on the team sheet as 10 for England, and he nearly cost us dearly.
Shame I feel so bad for Manie, he is taking too much responsibility for our loss
The Tony Brown approach won't work in the heat nor in wet conditions.
Tony Brown and Flannery will be the downfall of the Boks.
Hi guys, first of all i love your show!
I love the support and criticism shows people care! Regarding the tac, the message actually came from our on field leaders communicating to management that the gameplan we started off with (1st 20 min) was too demanding on the players given the 36° heat. We had to adapt and change a few things due the heat otherwise we would've burnt out by 45-60min mark. Now you know! Lekke! 😉
Zelim asking the tough question! 🔥
A defence strategy only works for so long before the opposition studies it and finds a way to break it. If Nienaber was in the coaching he would still need to change it because that defence has been found out and only would work in straight line cover defence where like we saw on Saturday the Pumas are adopting a cluster attack, whatever the correct terminology is but it makes it much more difficult to defend against as it's a bunch of close players, short quick ball to runners on a good line. To bring the players in to defend when there's a player down will create chaos and thats what we saw. It really is a chess game.
Zels nailed it! Every single word out of his mouth I agree with.
I went with SACS first XV on tour. We beat Contempomi's school... Not the same, but still hahahah
There's something off with Pollard's conditioning, which nobody's talking about. Since the first Ireland test he just falls off after 50 to 60mins. I think Rassie knows it and is shielding him by not keeping him on.
I think key is his experience is needed for yhe young guys, that Why Zulu is a combination of mManie and Polard
I've been giving Zels gears, but I think he was on point on this show.
I still think we need to give Tonyball more time, but I agree with Zels that we can't experiment with players and strategy.
Rassie had to take responsibility here.
I don't think the Marcos etc have time to improve before world cup.
I'm not convinced on Salmaan at lock.
I don't think Cobus was that bad. Lots of Boks were tired.
To be fair Zels has been saying this all along.
What worries me is that we win games but we never win convincingly. We never or rarely bump teams with 10 or 20 points. That's why the world doesnt really think we are the best. They always think we just got lucky.
I don't think your bok team is amazing, they just good but beatable by any team in the top 5,so don't feel bad about it, they a long way of that team of richie, but then again so is any team in the world now, my team the AB's are pretty average and is still in top 3, that says a lot.
@@ho6277 In our last 20 games we’ve gone 17-3, having only been beaten by Ireland and Argentina (the latter with a third-string team). The aggregate points in those losses is just 7.
We’ve literally beaten every single team in the top 10 in the last year despite the fact that we’ve consistently been missing half a dozen key players to injury.
34:35 hindsight is bliss.
I remember how a lot of questions were raised on the quality of the players they were in 2018….
Why does SA not have more kicking backs. Sometimes your best 10 is not your best kicker! Good analysis for sure.
Spending around 10 mins on Mannie. Very little chat about the poor line outs play during this competition, our inability in getting 50/50 ball, backline running diagonally.
Very well said gents.
The Boks have won 5 Lost 1 and I am still waiting for a great performance over 80 mins. Ricky is right, an 80% kicker is essential. Tony Ball+Newbies is defensive naivety
Agreed.. this new game plan is not developing... no cohesion
I am not sure we would be winning playing a box kick after 3 attempts to take it up every where except for the oppositions 22. Not only boring but hit and miss and not easy to play with that intensity week in and week out.
Hi guys....definitely one of two best rugby podcasts around.....the other one is Mark in Mexico.....just glad you not part of the trolls.....blaming Manie only. Zels....Joe public are trolls 😂
During the play-offs in the RWC, barring the final, Manie started and Pollard would come in and sweep up... why Rassie opted for the other direction against Argentina is beyond me! Just doesn't make any sense
One reason why a sports event is so enthralling is that the unexpected can happen and the underdog can win. And these games are often won and lost on small margins between the top ten or so teams. With a limited number of games available in a season, the need to win on the day, build a team for the next world cup, and develop new (and sometimes innovative) tactics, it is a hugely difficult task for the team management and the players. Go Rassie! Hy weet wat ons nie weet nie!
Good show, gents. Always enjoy the reviews. Do you have weekly meetings with Rassie to discuss this? 😉
I think Manie should borrow André Pretorius' sand method and start drawing a sand line for directions when kicking to poles. It worked perfectly for André.
Lekke boys - I agree with everything you guys said but we also have to trust that Ras has a plan
Zels, Boks are back to back World Champions. No one will remember a loss to Argentina, and you learn more from one loss than five wins.
This is the time to roll the dice, you create dynamism and adaptability that will win another world cup.
I'm an English man, and an Eddie Jones fan, but you can see what happened to the 2019 English team that murdered the ABs in the semis, but got squashed by Boks in final, adaptability has to be ingrained.
Rassie sees that and has a plan. It's painful to see his foresight from the outside, but you should trust in his process as a Bok fan!
Jacques Nienaber is not missed. We were leaking tries vs France in the QF like crazy with him as head coach, the missing coaching IP is Felix Jones.
Rassie seems to have a contingency plan for almost every situation. Why not for Manie’s goal kicking too?!
I agree - we need to only work on one thing at a time…
Excellent content
Yep the passive defence is a major issue since the Irish series. It makes it easier for the opponents for find mismatches.
Good to experiment now and know by 2027. However, it seems Rassie is missing Nienaber for defense, conditioning and counter balance (temper) to his ideas.
After the first 10 minutes I pondered whether the Boks are going to slaughter the Pumas or if the opening minutes will come back to haunt them. Kudos to Argentina.
Jordan Hendrikse & Masuku may pip Libbok. Libbok is a liability on defense and kicking. Hendrikse may not have the flair but he seems consistent and offers option on flyhalf, center & fullback.
There are other tighhead locks who should get tested above Moerat like Rahl & Venter. Or just draft that 18 year old monster from Monnas and let him walk in Eben's shadow.
If we carry on with Tony ball forget winning RWC 2027. Our DBA is defence and power game.
Agreed
Lol I mean what does a 2WC coach know about winning the 2027 WC. Hope he reads your comment otherwise we are screwed.
The flyhalf does not need to be the kicker!!!! Why did Rassie not make sure a better kicker is always playing when Manie is the flyhalf???
Who is this mythical kicking non-10 that qualifies for SA? Not Pollard because you can't swap De Allende for Pollard to accommodate Libbok.