After reading Layne Simpson's stories about the 7mm STW in Shooting Times magazines I had my Sako 7mm RM rechambered to this cartridge in 1992. The secret to getting this cartridge to really perform is to have it long throated. Mine consistently uses 4 to 6 grains more of Retumbo than recommended in reloading manuals,AR 2225 here in Australia with normal pressures. The velocity increase over the 7mm RM was incredible. With 140 grain Nosler Partitions 3520 fps. Barnes X MRX 160 grain which I still have plenty of 3360 fps. And Barnes X 175 grain at 3150 fps all out of a 24 inch barrel. When travelling around Australia it's the only gun I carry as it will comfortably handle everything from pigs and deer to buffalo and Scrub bulls. This rifle has accounted for over 850 animals virtually all one shot kills and still shoots under an inch. This is one rifle that you don't spend much time at the range with as the barrel gets hot very quickly. I have a 6.5 Creedmore for any range work I want to do. When the barrel eventually wears out I will probably get a new barrel in 28 Nosler and have it long throated so I can seat bullets out to the full 3.6 inch magazine length. The STW is definitely not efficient powder wise but performance is outstanding. If you want a fast car your generally not that concerned about fuel economy.
I have a story about how I came into mine … my buddy borrowed money from me and said ‘if I can’t pay you back in a year my Montana rifle is yours.’ So now I’m the proud owner of a SS Rem 700 in 7mm STW!
You’ve made my day, summer and life! All time favorite cartridge from a time before rangefinders, dialing turrets and man-buns and Teslas. Thanks guys 🔥🔥🔥
I have three custom 7 STW , a custom 8mm mag and a custom 358 STA. Love all three of them. In the 358 STA , I use 375 Weatherby mag cases , makes reloading way easier. Rl 25 with 140 Barnes ttsx works awesome , rl 26 in my 8mm and the 2 other 7 STW works the best. Use rl data but back off about 1 to 2 grains of powder.
The tl;dr is that they, like the Remington Short Action Ultra Magnums, tried to compete with the existing Winchester Short Magnums without sufficiently differentiating themselves. The WSMs had the first-mover advantage, which meant that third-party manufacturers, who didn't have a dog in the fight, like Savage, Howa, and Tikka, were already chambering rifles in the WSMs, and they aren't about to start offering rifles in 300 RCM or 300 SAUM when they offer no practical advantage over 300 WSM. This meant that you could only get factory RCM rifles from Ruger and factory SAUM rifles from Remington, which meant there wasn't as much demand for the cartridges, which meant gun stores were less likely to stock them, which meant less demand for the rifles, and in turn even less demand for the cartridges, in the familiar meme cartridge death spiral.
Actually grew up on my dads 7mm STW he bought back when it was a wildcat. Truly do love that gun. It was the reason I ended up building out a custom APR chambered in 28 Nosler.
I’ve been on the efficiency bandwagon for awhile, started years ago with a 6.5x284. More recently 7.62x39 (no joke, solid 250 yard deer rifle) and 6.5 Grendel. I also have a 9.3x62 and am amazed at the h.p. increase gained from upsizing a cartridge. I think the next steps will be people actually coming to their senses on how far they shoot game animals and cartridges like the 338 federal and 8.6 blkout will become more popular. Very rarely are people shooting table fare at over 400 yards.
I turned 72 a few days ago. I grew up in West Texas and I've been hunting since I was eight years old. I started reloading before you guys were born. I have always enjoyed your , younger guys perspective, until today. You would have had to live during the times all of these cartridges were created to appreciate their valve at the time or even now. I have reloaded for the 17 Hornet to the 45-70 Government and a lot of cartridges in between including the 375 H&H mag, 338 Lapua mag, 300 Weatherby mag, 300 Winchester mag, 300 H&H mag, 7mm STW mag, 7mm Remington mag and a host of other cartridges. One of you made the comment that we never paid attention to the BC of a bullet, just a light weight projectile and speed. That's not remotely the truth. Going fast without a good BC defeats your whole purpose. I can shoot anything from a 120 grain to a 190 grain in my STW. Most of those bullets would group from 1/2" to 3/8" at 100 yards. With my Remington 700 Sendero. My Remington 300 Winchester mag in a PSS would group 1 7/16" at 600 yards, I have the steel plate I shot to prove it. You made another comment about the length of the action of the rifle for a STW, it has to be one of those H&H magnum size actions. Just a standard long action Remington works just fine. Then the comment about Batman and his belt, a little beneath you, for the knowledge you're supposed to have. Back in the early 1900's when H&H created the 375 and a few years later the 300. The belt was needed for head spacing because of the taper and lack of shoulder on the cartridges. Roy Weatherby didn't remove the belt, so almost every magnum after that had a belt. I grew up with a lot of belts. If we hadn't evolved from the 45-70, of Elmer Keith's era to the 270, of Jack O'Connor's and the gun writers of my era, you wouldn't have what you have today. We had Joyce Hornady that started a bullet business and his son, Steve, that learned from him, to what we have today. To me, calling all the cartridges of the past, that may not have lasted as long as the 30-06 has, are lead balloons is like saying all the wars we fought for freedom were unnecessary and a waste of time. We are supposed to learn from history.One last thing, you talked about the way we judged distances in the past before laser range finders, you knew your rifle, you knew your cartridge's limits, you scouted the area you were to hunt and you multiple landmarks that you the distance of. Old school, you had to be a hunter, not just some dude on a weekend hunt with a bunch of fancy gadgets.
Thank you for saving me and my arthritic fingers the typing time Brother! You are a little older than me however, we are in the same thought process apparently. Growing up in the Texas Hill Country, (Boerne) with a family friend (who became my Father In Law) that was a Custom Rifle Builder (Butch Graham, The Gun Shop, Boerne, Tx) I saw so much and learned so much of what you covered in your statement. These young guys with all the tech access they’ve had since birth sometimes seem a little arrogant and condescending whist actually NOT making a provable point/case. Anyway, my point was, thanks for saying exactly what was goin* through my noggin as they were incorrectly bumping their gums.
Layne Simpson is a Legend! So are his creations. 8mm RemMag is no slouch either. I've recently acquired a 358 Shooting Times Alaskan reamer and die set. I'll be forming brass with 375 Weatherby. Go Big or Go Home! Vortex Rocks, Thanks for the Cartridge Talks.
I had a special order fluted barrel Blaser in 7STW and used it extensively in Scotland and Namibia plus a Tikka chambered also. It was an excellent choice for plains game etc. I used hand loads and factory Federal Premium in 160g with great results. I found it to be an extremely accurate round. I also had a REM 7mm UM but did not like it as much as the 7mm STW. I’ve had several of the Lazzeroni calibres and loved them too, particularly the 308 Warbird which I still own. It’s a devastating long range cartridge. Mine is built on a Nesika Super Magnum action with Krieger barrel,Sunnyhill floor plate, timney trigger you name it, we incorporated the best available at that time and the end result was an outstanding rifle with proven results both in U.K. and many Namibian safaris. His cartridges would make a great podcast topic
My license plate is actually 7STW. I think one thing that made it popular quick was that you could ream out a 7 Rem Mag to STW and gain several hundred FPS in the same rifle. My current one is a Remington 700 that started life as a 7 Remington mag.
It depended on your action. The 7 Rem Mag was designed to fit in the same 3.34" "standard action" as the 30-06. Many of these can't handle the 3.6" STW. The Rem 700 long action is considered a magnum action since it can handle a 375 H&H Mag.
@@andrewcleveland I know that some Tikka, Ruger and Mauser long actions are limited to pretty close to 3.34". The 375 Ruger was limited to 3.34" to get it to fit in their standard 30-06-length action, FWIW. Ruger had a magnum length action but it was much more expensive.
@@andrewcleveland Bill Ruger was determined to get something close to 375 H&H performance from a 30-06-length action because his magnum action was too expensive to be competitive. The Hornady guys have stated that they were unable to meet the velocity requirements of the 375 Ruger with any available propellant, so they started the collaboration with St. Mark's Powders that eventually led to Superformance cartridges.
Buddy of mine got one as a gift from his dad when we were in high school, it's a 700 sendero special, he has toted that rifle all over the country and canada and he just loves it,only recently has he stopped hunting with it due to ammo scarcity.
My STW is a Ruger #1B with a 26" 1:9 Heavy. My dad had it built for me when I was a teenager because he got tired of me using his Ruger #1B STW 🤣. They've both killed a lot of elk in the past 20+ years. We handload 160gr AccuBonds with H1000 I've been shooting 28 Nosler along side the STW since '17. They're very comparable cartridges and I can shoot them pretty interchangeably. Been loading the 28N with 180gr ELDMs and H1000. Impressively accurate
Love the Lead Balloon talks. Might also be fun to have a category for uncommon cartridges that have managed to hold on in their little niche, thus dodging LB status. I thought about this a couple days ago when I saw two boxes of factory .41 Magnum on the shelf at the local big box sporting goods store.
I love you guys... but the 7mm PRC doesn't get close to 7mm STW velocities. Even with the outdated design of the STW... it has so much more case capacity that it will be at least 200 FPS faster. Ryan was mentioning that there wasn't much difference with the STW and the PRC because you have to push the bullet into the case so much on the STW. While it's true that to fit SAMMI spec the STW will push the bullets into the case... That doesn't matter until you get to a 185 gr bullet in the STW. Go check out the Nosler load data and not a single compressed load until you get to a 185 gr bullet. And even if you have to do compressed loads... That's not stopping the 300 WSM. The point I'm trying to say... is just because you have to seat a bullet far into the STW case doesn't mean it's suddenly going to go as slow as a 7mm PRC.
Looking at the Nosler load data for the STW compared to the Hornady load data for the PRC...the STW with the 175 is loaded out to 3.6 not the 3.34 of the 7Prc, is using more powder, and a 1:9 twist barrel. For all intents and purposes, the velocities are the same between the two with the Prc doing it with less powder, shorter coal, and a 1:8 twist barrel.
To get my answer about the 180s, I looked at Shooters Reference and the max I saw for the STW was 3010fps using 82.5gr of IMR 8133. Hornady load data for the Prc is showing 2950fps using 67gr of RL-26.
Only problem is these guys have zero clue on a properly built rifle for cartridge. They absolutely did a biased talk about the stw. They needed to have a fan of the stw who built a rifle properly for that cartridge. Then it would of embarrassed the crap out of those 3 guys. Oh and I love my 6.5x300 weatherby.
Long story short. My uncle got the 7stw for hunting sheep in Montana. Practiced with it shooting prairie dogs! Hundreds of rounds. Got his sheep. Walked through grizzly country in the pitch black solo down the mountain with his sheep on his back and rifle barrel in hand over his shoulder. Finger prints are rusted into the barrel. Shot my first moose with it in BC. Epic gun and cartridge for those reasons alone for me! Stories are what make us love the rifle and calibers! Winchester M70 custom shop stainless hexagon barrel with beautiful maple stock
My late, former Father In Law was a Custom Gunsmith/Builder in Boerne, Tx. He introduced me to the 7 STW and it was a laser I could own at the time because of my relationship to him obviously. I miss that rifle and I miss Butch Graham.
I have a Remington 7mm STW i got in a Trade back when it first came out And have only Killed about 5 Deer with it some at very long range ! And yes its Old School But when your watching a Pipe Line Big Buck Crossing at 400 yards it makes you feel like Go ahead and just try to get to the outher side!!!!!! I Cant help but LOVE it!!!!
I got bit by the STW bug as a kid in the late 90s. My dad shot one in a Sendero up until the introduction of the 7mm RUM (bigger and faster), and I had always loved watching him take shots with it at ranges I couldnt fathom trying at the time. Now, he still shoots the Sendero, and I run one in a Winchester 70 Laredo. It's definitely nostalgia that has made me such a fan
Twist rate was a big limiting factor on factory guns, 9.5 was a standard for 7mm RM and bled over to factory 7mm STW, so for solid copper you capped out at 160's. If you went with an 8 twist barrel on a custom, you could use the heavies, but stuffed to far back into the case. Great talk yet again fellas!! Thanks
Now that you covered this cartridge,how about doing an episode on its big brother,the 358 STA. Also,Id just like to state that there are a group of people out there,like myself,who are turning back to more obscure cartridges that absolutely worked back when and still will.In my experiences and my style of hunting,I rarely shoot over 300 yards,and I get it,there are situations where shots can be longer,but I'm not into seeing how far I can shoot an animal,just the opposite,I want to see how close I can get. Therefore,I want to find and buy a 318 WR,I still love the 30/06,Id like to try the 9.3x62 and 64,and I'd like to try a 404 Jeffries.I also like the 257 Roberts,25/06,7mm-08,and many other older classic cartridges.Lets not also forget the 338/06,and the 35 Whelen.There are so many great cartridges out there that are becoming oddities because of all the hype for these new cartridges.Im not saying the new ones are bad,there are a couple Id like to try,but there's no need to throw away a lot of the old classics,they are classics because they worked.
Congratulations on another infinitely informative and entertaining video. WHERE IS THE .358 vid for us older, lever gun gentlemen ? Thank you gentlemen, jmp
The year the 300 Rum came out I had originally ordered a 7 STW went on a fishing trip and read about 300 Rum coming out. I canceled my STW and have been a RUM fan every since. The STW is a great caliber without a doubt.
It's really bad 338 federal, and 338 spectre matches it in an ar15 sized action. Also Q making bogus claims that the crazy twist rate does anything is BS of the highest order. That's all you need to know.
7mm stw with 140 gr bullets will put deer down fast ..and drops only 17 inches at 600 yards vs 7 mag 4 foot with same bullet..the only case that is the same is 28 nosler..it's lightning in a bottle
Received one of these for high school graduation in the 90's. Still have it, had it rebarreled this year. My friend borrowed it and kilt a grizzly bear. It lightning strikes whitetail deer. Your lead balloon series is an inventory of my gun cabinet.
A 7mm STW and a Shepard scope with the deer or elk vital circles was the hot pair for long range here around western wyoming before lazer rangefinders made it on the scene.
Mine is a mid-90's Sako M995 with a 26" tube and KDF brake. Super accurate with the old Winchester Failsafe 160's handloaded with H1000. It's not something you ever want to shoot W/O hearing protection. Eargesplitten' Loudenboomer for sure! Recoil is about like a .243 Winchester with the brake. It's there with the thread protector though. Great discussion. You guys hit all the reasons, at least for me to own it. Before rangefinders, and the need to crush elk at cross-canyon distances in the Wyoming wind.
I had an 8mm mag BDL in the 80s. I let someone talk me out of it and have been sick about it every since. I years later got a 25 STW (7 STW necked down to 25) better known as a Hot Tamale and it is my favorite gun that I have. I’ve killed everything from Eland to white tail to coyote and everything in between. It shoots an 80 grain Barnes ttsx over 4,000 fps. My barrel is still holding up and I’m about 120 rounds in to it. I can’t remember ever shooting anything more than once with it and they drop like rocks. I have gone to a 28 Nosler now that I run a Thunder Beast ultra 7 on. It is a Christensen FFT with a 22 inch barrel. I just couldn’t get use to the long barrels with a can on it.
The short magnums were just at the tail end of the "light bullet, fast and flat" trend. They include the 270WSM, 7mm SAUM, 7mm WSM, 300 SAUM, 300 WSM, 325 WSM, followed a few years later by the 300 RCM and 338 RCM). The WSMs were faster than the others, so they "won" in comparison articles in magazines which only looked at velocity. The 7 SAUM was more appreciated by the target shooters than hunters since it had a better freebore/throat design than the WSMs and tended to be more accurate (or at least, easier to find an accurate load). It is still popular in some circles in a modified form. The cartridge itself is the same, but it is used with longer, higher BC bullets and put in a longer action with a faster twist barrel. SAAMI max COAL is 2.825", but it is commonly now loaded to over 3.1". The 7 SAUM has a slightly smaller case than the 7mm WSM, and in the "higher velocity is always better" days, the SAUMs lost out to the WSMs. My guess is that so many short magnums came out at roughly the same time that the market was too split for most of them to succeed . The 300 WSM seems to be the main one that is doing reasonably well.
I had an Abolt browning stainless stalker, came from browning as a 7rem reamed to a 7stw. On the barrel it had written 7rem lined out, 7stw by browning stamped in the barrel.
It's interesting listening to these talks and the comments that I have in my own head, which inevitably you guys get to, like the fact that you can probably (for most hunting applications) get away with a 6.5 Creedmoor, 270, 7mm-08, 308, 30-06, or even step up a little to a 7 Rem Mag, 300 WSM or 300 Win Mag and be just fine. Not to downplay all of the new and neat stuff but at its core I guess that's why all of those cartridges have survived.
It’s not GMs fault the 6.6 had no power, that was the 1973 changes to emissions laws. Every US manufacturer basically cut the power in half that the engine would actually make reliably in order to meet the guidelines. Instead of putting tiny engines in them they left the big V8s so people could simply turn them up, as many did, right after they pulled it off the lot.
One first rifles as a kid was the 7mm STW. Remington 700 Sendero with a fluted stainless barrel and black stock with white swirl. Loved that rifle as it kicked like a mule and my buddies wouldn't shoot it. Funny thing about that round, the only deer in my life I lost, was taken with this rifle and a Core-Lokt. High shoulder shot from 105 yards. We found her the next afternoon and the bullet did it's job. Deer had to have been a bionic roid deer lol. This caliber is what got me into reloading as well. Life came along and I ended up needing a .308 for work. This was sacrificed and I would give almost anything to have it back. Great jobs guys!
Back in the early 90’s had rifle started as a 338 win mag and I had it reamed out to fit a 8mm/ rem case. So it became a .338/8mm mag. Like the 7 stw but with the 338 bullets. I wanted a 340 weatherby but gunsmith suggested to go this route. For hand loading I start the higher end of 340 recipes. No I would not do it again.
Another reason for the benefit of 7 PRC over 7 STW to Jim's question about stuff bullet further back in the 7 STW would be that to get magazine COAL you are stuffing the same bullet back further in the case on the STW and even if the velocity is same on both, you would not likely get the same jump to lands in some instances due to Ogive shape on longer bullets and that may affect the STW's ability to get same accuracy if the bullet choice is picky about jump to lands distances.
Remington 700 7mm stw with either nosler 140 gr accubond or partition, is a tack driver! I flipped whitetails over backwards with that cartridge! My favorite 😊
What's everyone's view on the 6.5 grendel for deer hunting. I've had very good results with some hornady and am curious about your thoughts on the cartridge?
Best 7mm STW setups are Ruger #1’s in the V & then B models. While some were factory SSAMI spec, many were project rifles with extended chambering for the longer projectiles/higher BC’s. Haven’t seen one for a while but they were impressive setups.
I remember reading about this way back. Now these long, high BC bullets and laser range finders have changed shooting. I remember when everyone wanted more fps. & 270 win & 7 Rem were fast, & all the Weatherbys were “FAST!”
The answer to the capacity discussion around minute 14 is that the STW will still have more capacity, just not as much. The STW holds about 10 grains more water than 7mm PRC. A VLD bullet will consume less than half of that, so the STW will still have 6 grains additional capacity. That capacity may increase velocity by 1.5 %, or 50 fps. The extra room may also allow a bulkier, slower powder to be used that will increase velocity considerably more than the 50fps.
My mentor and best friend back in college owned three rifles rem 700 in 7mm stw was one of them he had it built in like 1995. For western hunting primarily mule deer he wanted to take a world class mulie. And had that rifle build specifically for that purpose of hunting the dakotas Wyoming etc. I believe the 7mm stw faded out cause it in competition with the lazzaroni cartridges at the time. I feel it faded out because it was more cartridge than what most of Americans needed back then shooting a thousand was a feat. The varmint hunting association back then would recognize in their magazine people who made into the thousand yard club which was a prairie at a thousand with witnesses and verification with range finders which using a rangefinder back then was hit and miss at times to get an accurate range. I considered the cartridge but went with a seven mag mostly for commercially available cartridge and reloading purposes.
To answer Jim’s question if we will come back to STW performance, we have in the ballistic equivalent called the 28 Nosler. It’s a modernized twin of the STW
Yes sir, 7mm STW is old school horsepower. Burn lots of slow powder to make velocity. I easily achieved 3500 fps with 140 grain. Used a 6-18 Leupold with target knows. We had laser range finders to 600 yards. Didn't understand B.C. didn't care. We understand speed. Speed equals flat trajectory. 7mm ultra magnum. Same thing.
When this cartridge was first introduced, the bulk of the press was about how fast it could push lightweight bullets. Knowledgeable visionaries like Gary Sitton wrote that its best utility would be with heavy bullets. I don’t know this for certain, but it seems to me it was adversely impacted by the introduction of the 7mm RUM, which didn’t really improve upon the STW’s performance and just served to confuse shooters.
Love the 7mm stw, I have 2 of them myself. One factory and one custom. My custom is shooting a 200gr chinchaga at 3108 with necked up 6.5-300wby peterson brass. Best 7mm out there in my opinion.
Just looking at the cartridges, I suspect they will be in the same ballpark, but action length and twist rate become limiting issues for the STW. Traditionally, around 160-162 grains was about the heaviest bullet factory loaded for the STW. The SAAMI COAL of the 7mm STW is the standard magnum length of 3.6". The 300 PRC case has a little less capacity but it is shorter, allowing the bullet to be loaded farther out on the 7mm-300 PRC. This means with long bullets, muzzle velocity will be close because more of the bullet is inside the STW case, eating up powder space. The question is whether the STW will stabilize long-for-caliber, high BC bullets. With shorter, lighter bullets, the STW gains more speed since it can use more of its case capacity for powder. Some will argue that the shorter, fatter powder column of the PRC will help with accuracy, but I have not seen side by side tests.
My remington 700, with a mcgowen 26 inch remage barrel, 175 grain accubond long range, shoots a .387 group with 86.5 grains of rl33 at 3186 fps. Good luck getting a prc anywhere near close.
Exactly. PRC is not even close to it's performance. Build a 7stw with a 4" Wyatt box and zero single feed and push the 180 to 195 to 3100 fps. PRC crying in the corner. Next time have someone on set that built one properly and try to compare it. PRC goes home crying
Funny I came across this. I do own a Remington Sendero SFII in 7mm STW. It goes fast and flat and kicks. But it was out-performed indeed. Still a nice rifle with fluting and everything. And boy do it kick!
I would love to hear a podcast about muzzleloading hunting. I think it's a wonderful way to take game early and it makes you feel like the mountain men of old.
I have a 700 sendero 7mag that was reamed into a stw. Been shooting magnums since before my pops should have let me. My elk gun now is a 7 rem mag, my two fav cartridges are 223/308 and I’ve never shot paper or at long range better than I do today.
I still have and hunt with my 7mm STW I had built in 1995. Took a caribou at 555 yards with it and it sounded like it got by a semi truck (and it looked just like it did!). 140 Winchester Supreme Ballistic Silvertip ammo. Now the magic in this cartridge is a 168 gr Berger vld hunting at 3200fps. All copper bullets are not good for the STW, needs to be a lead core to keep the overall length within its optimum. More efficient than the 28 Nosler being that the actual real world velocities are nearly the same with far less propellant. I did have a laser range finder back then but they were not capable of anything but give you a distance. A Shepherd scope with the matching reticle and the old laser and you were in really good shape. Remington 700 BDL Left Handed. I am thinking that the CDL is a post STW model. I only recall the BDL and ADL models back at the time I had mine built. Gunsmith couldn't keep up with just the rechambering jobs to STW back then.
Idk about that, the advertised case capacities are almost the same, so all things equal it should perform pretty similar. That said, with good ADG brass i’ve seen over 3260 with berger 180 vld’s in my 28 nosler. 28” barrel. 81.5 grains retumbo, id say its pretty efficient. Both rounds could benefit from longer throat and mag lengths to seat the big high bc’s out of the case
I'll give my two cents on Jim's thoughts about High HP cartridges vs efficient cartridges trend. I like and appreciate efficient cartridges. I don't own an overbore cartridge and tend to like cartridges that do as much with less. (Mark would be proud....I just added a 300 WSM) I think the efficient case/high bc thing is going to be around for a while. That being said, since I don't have a stupid big, absolutely uncalled for and something I would never need cartridge, that'll be my next build. My next one is going to be a 338 Edge. To be honest, having one that you can hand someone the cartridge and them say "...whoa", is a good enough reason for me.
6mm arc. Was super hot, then not. Granted I love my 6.5x39 (grendel) because I use a gas gun. I’m not shooting a deer with a 6 arc. 108gr vs my 129gr 6.5. Pine forests of the east coast. Bigger bullet. My state says it’s illegal to hunt with smaller than .230. So 6 arc is legal but I feel like the heavier larger 6.5 is better because I don’t want it running 200+ yards. 6 arc fell of fast. All the rage at shot ‘22. Then disappeared. I like 6.5 grendel, AR15 sized, heavy, potential, legal. A .243 gas gun now I’m going why not a .308 at AR10 size. I sure hope Jim’s a mopar guy.
I had one years ago before it was commercially available. Used 300 Weatherby nickel case, rl22, 140 grain HT bullets at 3650. A winchester 375 h&H action, 27.5 shillen barrel with brake. It shot 160 partitions as well.
Had mine built in 1995, by re-barreling a Sako TRG-S that was in 375 H&H, with a 30 inch polygonal twist barrel. It would push Nosler 120gr Ballistic Tips at stupid velocities (3800fps??) and just explode jack rabbits at 250 yards. Literally blew a coyote in two at around 200 yards. Sold it having never really rang it out with a proper optic to see what it could do. Love the 7mm bullets and went the other way and built a 20" 7mm BR on another Sako action, and that became my dominate coyote rifle. One third the powder and muzzle blast and still just "turned off" the coyote.
My shooting partner has one, we call it “The landmine” ….100gr hollow point @ 4k fps ! Fox 🦊 don’t like it much 😂 To quote the guy who built it “This makes deader than dead….chunks” 😂
After reading Layne Simpson's stories about the 7mm STW in Shooting Times magazines I had my Sako 7mm RM rechambered to this cartridge in 1992. The secret to getting this cartridge to really perform is to have it long throated. Mine consistently uses 4 to 6 grains more of Retumbo than recommended in reloading manuals,AR 2225 here in Australia with normal pressures. The velocity increase over the 7mm RM was incredible. With 140 grain Nosler Partitions 3520 fps. Barnes X MRX 160 grain which I still have plenty of 3360 fps. And Barnes X 175 grain at 3150 fps all out of a 24 inch barrel. When travelling around Australia it's the only gun I carry as it will comfortably handle everything from pigs and deer to buffalo and Scrub bulls. This rifle has accounted for over 850 animals virtually all one shot kills and still shoots under an inch. This is one rifle that you don't spend much time at the range with as the barrel gets hot very quickly. I have a 6.5 Creedmore for any range work I want to do. When the barrel eventually wears out I will probably get a new barrel in 28 Nosler and have it long throated so I can seat bullets out to the full 3.6 inch magazine length. The STW is definitely not efficient powder wise but performance is outstanding. If you want a fast car your generally not that concerned about fuel economy.
Honestly when I see a 10 min talk and the video is 41min. I get excited to sit and listen. Love the podcast. 3 legends
Yes! Another Lead Balloon! The more obscure the cartridge the more excited I am to watch.
I have a story about how I came into mine … my buddy borrowed money from me and said ‘if I can’t pay you back in a year my Montana rifle is yours.’ So now I’m the proud owner of a SS Rem 700 in 7mm STW!
You’ve made my day, summer and life! All time favorite cartridge from a time before rangefinders, dialing turrets and man-buns and Teslas. Thanks guys 🔥🔥🔥
Can we have a safari cartridge talk? All the modern magnums that came from the H&Hs, Jeffreys and Rigbys it would be cool to have a deep dive
YYYYYEEEEESSSSS!!!!!!
Yes!!!!
Another yes - please!!
Yes @VortexNation! But if so, please don’t disclude the 9.3s!
@@blackshirtsrule4everAbsolutely, The 9.3x62 and 9.3x74r need their own 10ish minute talk as well as an introduction in the Safari Cartridges video
7mm STW & 358 STA make a helluva pair.
Layne Simpson is a legend !
7mm STE was for Eastern Lever Actions.
I have them both. Custom made.
I have three custom 7 STW , a custom 8mm mag and a custom 358 STA. Love all three of them. In the 358 STA , I use 375 Weatherby mag cases , makes reloading way easier. Rl 25 with 140 Barnes ttsx works awesome , rl 26 in my 8mm and the 2 other 7 STW works the best. Use rl data but back off about 1 to 2 grains of powder.
@@CodyHill-xb3lm yes he is. I also have a custom 358 STA also
Since Mark mentioned it, what ever happened to the 6.5 BC??
Need an hr podcast on the LAZZERONI catridges. Their really cool and got crazy numbers. Also lead balloon.
Love the cartridge talks, I nerd out on this even though I don’t reload. Still waiting on .270 Win vs 6.5 PRC comparison 👍
Finally, more cartridge talks! Thanks!
I’d like to hear about the Ruger Compact Mags.
Talk about some lead balloons.
338RCM ticks both boxes
Talk about man buns 😂
The tl;dr is that they, like the Remington Short Action Ultra Magnums, tried to compete with the existing Winchester Short Magnums without sufficiently differentiating themselves. The WSMs had the first-mover advantage, which meant that third-party manufacturers, who didn't have a dog in the fight, like Savage, Howa, and Tikka, were already chambering rifles in the WSMs, and they aren't about to start offering rifles in 300 RCM or 300 SAUM when they offer no practical advantage over 300 WSM. This meant that you could only get factory RCM rifles from Ruger and factory SAUM rifles from Remington, which meant there wasn't as much demand for the cartridges, which meant gun stores were less likely to stock them, which meant less demand for the rifles, and in turn even less demand for the cartridges, in the familiar meme cartridge death spiral.
Actually grew up on my dads 7mm STW he bought back when it was a wildcat. Truly do love that gun. It was the reason I ended up building out a custom APR chambered in 28 Nosler.
"raw horsepower and rock n roll" jim had some great lines this wpisode
My boss is part of the 7mm STW cult. He took his STW to Tajikistan on a Marco Polo hunt and brought one down from 600-ish yards.
Oh my, Ryan said he almost built a 264 win mag!!! What what what? Crazy , I wanna hear more about that. Thanks for another great podcast fellas!
I’ve been on the efficiency bandwagon for awhile, started years ago with a 6.5x284. More recently 7.62x39 (no joke, solid 250 yard deer rifle) and 6.5 Grendel. I also have a 9.3x62 and am amazed at the h.p. increase gained from upsizing a cartridge. I think the next steps will be people actually coming to their senses on how far they shoot game animals and cartridges like the 338 federal and 8.6 blkout will become more popular. Very rarely are people shooting table fare at over 400 yards.
In sweden 70 procent of the moose hits in 30 to 80 meters range.
I turned 72 a few days ago. I grew up in West Texas and I've been hunting since I was eight years old. I started reloading before you guys were born. I have always enjoyed your , younger guys perspective, until today. You would have had to live during the times all of these cartridges were created to appreciate their valve at the time or even now. I have reloaded for the 17 Hornet to the 45-70 Government and a lot of cartridges in between including the 375 H&H mag, 338 Lapua mag, 300 Weatherby mag, 300 Winchester mag, 300 H&H mag, 7mm STW mag, 7mm Remington mag and a host of other cartridges. One of you made the comment that we never paid attention to the BC of a bullet, just a light weight projectile and speed. That's not remotely the truth. Going fast without a good BC defeats your whole purpose. I can shoot anything from a 120 grain to a 190 grain in my STW. Most of those bullets would group from 1/2" to 3/8" at 100 yards. With my Remington 700 Sendero. My Remington 300 Winchester mag in a PSS would group 1 7/16" at 600 yards, I have the steel plate I shot to prove it. You made another comment about the length of the action of the rifle for a STW, it has to be one of those H&H magnum size actions. Just a standard long action Remington works just fine. Then the comment about Batman and his belt, a little beneath you, for the knowledge you're supposed to have. Back in the early 1900's when H&H created the 375 and a few years later the 300. The belt was needed for head spacing because of the taper and lack of shoulder on the cartridges. Roy Weatherby didn't remove the belt, so almost every magnum after that had a belt. I grew up with a lot of belts. If we hadn't evolved from the 45-70, of Elmer Keith's era to the 270, of Jack O'Connor's and the gun writers of my era, you wouldn't have what you have today. We had Joyce Hornady that started a bullet business and his son, Steve, that learned from him, to what we have today. To me, calling all the cartridges of the past, that may not have lasted as long as the 30-06 has, are lead balloons is like saying all the wars we fought for freedom were unnecessary and a waste of time. We are supposed to learn from history.One last thing, you talked about the way we judged distances in the past before laser range finders, you knew your rifle, you knew your cartridge's limits, you scouted the area you were to hunt and you multiple landmarks that you the distance of. Old school, you had to be a hunter, not just some dude on a weekend hunt with a bunch of fancy gadgets.
Thank you for saving me and my arthritic fingers the typing time Brother! You are a little older than me however, we are in the same thought process apparently. Growing up in the Texas Hill Country, (Boerne) with a family friend (who became my Father In Law) that was a Custom Rifle Builder (Butch Graham, The Gun Shop, Boerne, Tx) I saw so much and learned so much of what you covered in your statement. These young guys with all the tech access they’ve had since birth sometimes seem a little arrogant and condescending whist actually NOT making a provable point/case. Anyway, my point was, thanks for saying exactly what was goin* through my noggin as they were incorrectly bumping their gums.
Best Waterboy reference ever! Ryan is the G.O.A.T.!
Layne Simpson is a Legend! So are his creations. 8mm RemMag is no slouch either. I've recently acquired a 358 Shooting Times Alaskan reamer and die set. I'll be forming brass with 375 Weatherby. Go Big or Go Home! Vortex Rocks, Thanks for the Cartridge Talks.
I have a custom 358 STA
I had a special order fluted barrel Blaser in 7STW and used it extensively in Scotland and Namibia plus a Tikka chambered also. It was an excellent choice for plains game etc. I used hand loads and factory Federal Premium in 160g with great results. I found it to be an extremely accurate round. I also had a REM 7mm UM but did not like it as much as the 7mm STW. I’ve had several of the Lazzeroni calibres and loved them too, particularly the 308 Warbird which I still own. It’s a devastating long range cartridge. Mine is built on a Nesika Super Magnum action with Krieger barrel,Sunnyhill floor plate, timney trigger you name it, we incorporated the best available at that time and the end result was an outstanding rifle with proven results both in U.K. and many Namibian safaris. His cartridges would make a great podcast topic
U and myself have a lot in common. I got the same cartilages u have
My license plate is actually 7STW. I think one thing that made it popular quick was that you could ream out a 7 Rem Mag to STW and gain several hundred FPS in the same rifle. My current one is a Remington 700 that started life as a 7 Remington mag.
It depended on your action. The 7 Rem Mag was designed to fit in the same 3.34" "standard action" as the 30-06. Many of these can't handle the 3.6" STW. The Rem 700 long action is considered a magnum action since it can handle a 375 H&H Mag.
This is true, I believe the Winchester model 70 will work also. I have a model 70 in 416 Rem Mag which is also a 3.6” case.
@@andrewcleveland I know that some Tikka, Ruger and Mauser long actions are limited to pretty close to 3.34". The 375 Ruger was limited to 3.34" to get it to fit in their standard 30-06-length action, FWIW. Ruger had a magnum length action but it was much more expensive.
@@jfess1911 yeah those rugers with true magnum length actions go for a pretty penny these days.
@@andrewcleveland Bill Ruger was determined to get something close to 375 H&H performance from a 30-06-length action because his magnum action was too expensive to be competitive. The Hornady guys have stated that they were unable to meet the velocity requirements of the 375 Ruger with any available propellant, so they started the collaboration with St. Mark's Powders that eventually led to Superformance cartridges.
Buddy of mine got one as a gift from his dad when we were in high school, it's a 700 sendero special, he has toted that rifle all over the country and canada and he just loves it,only recently has he stopped hunting with it due to ammo scarcity.
That’s where I’m at with mine also! I think I have the same rifle. I have about 300 rounds for mine
Great talk, kinda shocked/bummed the 28 nosler never came up..
Which is odd since the 28 nosler fully replaced it.
My STW is a Ruger #1B with a 26" 1:9 Heavy. My dad had it built for me when I was a teenager because he got tired of me using his Ruger #1B STW 🤣. They've both killed a lot of elk in the past 20+ years. We handload 160gr AccuBonds with H1000
I've been shooting 28 Nosler along side the STW since '17. They're very comparable cartridges and I can shoot them pretty interchangeably. Been loading the 28N with 180gr ELDMs and H1000. Impressively accurate
Can I message you I need to pick your Brian on the STW
28 Nosler is basically the 7mm STW without the rim and capable of a few more FPS.
That talk was left out on purpose. There are sponsors behind these talks…
Love the Lead Balloon talks.
Might also be fun to have a category for uncommon cartridges that have managed to hold on in their little niche, thus dodging LB status.
I thought about this a couple days ago when I saw two boxes of factory .41 Magnum on the shelf at the local big box sporting goods store.
I LOVE the 41mag, owned several over my lifetime and always had great accuracy and kinetic energy results with it.
Love cartridge talks!! Would love to hear one on the Sherman Short family of cartridges; all of them throw out bonkers numbers.
I love you guys... but the 7mm PRC doesn't get close to 7mm STW velocities. Even with the outdated design of the STW... it has so much more case capacity that it will be at least 200 FPS faster. Ryan was mentioning that there wasn't much difference with the STW and the PRC because you have to push the bullet into the case so much on the STW. While it's true that to fit SAMMI spec the STW will push the bullets into the case... That doesn't matter until you get to a 185 gr bullet in the STW. Go check out the Nosler load data and not a single compressed load until you get to a 185 gr bullet. And even if you have to do compressed loads... That's not stopping the 300 WSM. The point I'm trying to say... is just because you have to seat a bullet far into the STW case doesn't mean it's suddenly going to go as slow as a 7mm PRC.
Should of known it was you. Lol
You wanna point me in the direction of the store that I can pick up some 7stw at? 😛
You have me curious though. What's the STW sending the 180gr downrange at?
So what I'm hearing is that we need to make 7-300 PRC an official thing
Looking at the Nosler load data for the STW compared to the Hornady load data for the PRC...the STW with the 175 is loaded out to 3.6 not the 3.34 of the 7Prc, is using more powder, and a 1:9 twist barrel.
For all intents and purposes, the velocities are the same between the two with the Prc doing it with less powder, shorter coal, and a 1:8 twist barrel.
To get my answer about the 180s, I looked at Shooters Reference and the max I saw for the STW was 3010fps using 82.5gr of IMR 8133.
Hornady load data for the Prc is showing 2950fps using 67gr of RL-26.
Now let’s do a comparison between the 7mm STW vs the 6.5-300 Weatherby
Only problem is these guys have zero clue on a properly built rifle for cartridge. They absolutely did a biased talk about the stw. They needed to have a fan of the stw who built a rifle properly for that cartridge. Then it would of embarrassed the crap out of those 3 guys.
Oh and I love my 6.5x300 weatherby.
Long story short. My uncle got the 7stw for hunting sheep in Montana. Practiced with it shooting prairie dogs! Hundreds of rounds. Got his sheep. Walked through grizzly country in the pitch black solo down the mountain with his sheep on his back and rifle barrel in hand over his shoulder. Finger prints are rusted into the barrel.
Shot my first moose with it in BC.
Epic gun and cartridge for those reasons alone for me! Stories are what make us love the rifle and calibers!
Winchester M70 custom shop stainless hexagon barrel with beautiful maple stock
Brother has a 7stw in a r700 Sendaro. I was infatuated with the round as a teenager, still am as an adult.
Taking this out to hunt opening day tomorrow. Have had the rifle in the family for years. Looove it.
My late, former Father In Law was a Custom Gunsmith/Builder in Boerne, Tx. He introduced me to the 7 STW and it was a laser I could own at the time because of my relationship to him obviously. I miss that rifle and I miss Butch Graham.
I have a Remington 7mm STW i got in a Trade back when it first came out And have only Killed about 5 Deer with it some at very long range ! And yes its Old School But when your watching a Pipe Line Big Buck Crossing at 400 yards it makes you feel like Go ahead and just try to get to the outher side!!!!!! I Cant help but LOVE it!!!!
The .257STW is no slouch.
hey now here’s one I never heard of! And I am new to bullets. And I like to learn!
I got bit by the STW bug as a kid in the late 90s. My dad shot one in a Sendero up until the introduction of the 7mm RUM (bigger and faster), and I had always loved watching him take shots with it at ranges I couldnt fathom trying at the time. Now, he still shoots the Sendero, and I run one in a Winchester 70 Laredo. It's definitely nostalgia that has made me such a fan
Twist rate was a big limiting factor on factory guns, 9.5 was a standard for 7mm RM and bled over to factory 7mm STW, so for solid copper you capped out at 160's. If you went with an 8 twist barrel on a custom, you could use the heavies, but stuffed to far back into the case. Great talk yet again fellas!! Thanks
I've looked in close to 100 stores for the 7mm rem "meag" that mark talks about and all I can find is the 7mm rem mag
Yeah, must be one of those foreign cartridges.😀
Now that you covered this cartridge,how about doing an episode on its big brother,the 358 STA.
Also,Id just like to state that there are a group of people out there,like myself,who are turning back to more obscure cartridges that absolutely worked back when and still will.In my experiences and my style of hunting,I rarely shoot over 300 yards,and I get it,there are situations where shots can be longer,but I'm not into seeing how far I can shoot an animal,just the opposite,I want to see how close I can get. Therefore,I want to find and buy a 318 WR,I still love the 30/06,Id like to try the 9.3x62 and 64,and I'd like to try a 404 Jeffries.I also like the 257 Roberts,25/06,7mm-08,and many other older classic cartridges.Lets not also forget the 338/06,and the 35 Whelen.There are so many great cartridges out there that are becoming oddities because of all the hype for these new cartridges.Im not saying the new ones are bad,there are a couple Id like to try,but there's no need to throw away a lot of the old classics,they are classics because they worked.
i would love to see you guys talk about the .30-378 Weatherby
Congratulations on another infinitely informative and entertaining video.
WHERE IS THE .358 vid for us older, lever gun gentlemen ?
Thank you gentlemen,
jmp
The year the 300 Rum came out I had originally ordered a 7 STW went on a fishing trip and read about 300 Rum coming out. I canceled my STW and have been a RUM fan every since. The STW is a great caliber without a doubt.
Can we get 8.6 blackout in a “10min” talk. Thanks for all the content guys, I’m always learning something 👏👏
It's really bad 338 federal, and 338 spectre matches it in an ar15 sized action.
Also Q making bogus claims that the crazy twist rate does anything is BS of the highest order.
That's all you need to know.
@therealdestructicus but I want Ryan Muckenhern to tell me that.
Siege Mortar Ballistics- 10 minute cartridge talk would be awesome!
7mm stw with 140 gr bullets will put deer down fast ..and drops only 17 inches at 600 yards vs 7 mag 4 foot with same bullet..the only case that is the same is 28 nosler..it's lightning in a bottle
Received one of these for high school graduation in the 90's. Still have it, had it rebarreled this year. My friend borrowed it and kilt a grizzly bear. It lightning strikes whitetail deer. Your lead balloon series is an inventory of my gun cabinet.
A 7mm STW and a Shepard scope with the deer or elk vital circles was the hot pair for long range here around western wyoming before lazer rangefinders made it on the scene.
I almost bought one, then the 7 RUM came out, I bought the RUM which was a mistake. The RUM burns more powder with little fps gain.
RUM needs like 28-30” barrels to really shine. I have a 28” on my 28 nosler. It moves
Mine is a mid-90's Sako M995 with a 26" tube and KDF brake. Super accurate with the old Winchester Failsafe 160's handloaded with H1000. It's not something you ever want to shoot W/O hearing protection. Eargesplitten' Loudenboomer for sure! Recoil is about like a .243 Winchester with the brake. It's there with the thread protector though. Great discussion. You guys hit all the reasons, at least for me to own it. Before rangefinders, and the need to crush elk at cross-canyon distances in the Wyoming wind.
Hunting Coues with a 300 Norma is the height of silliness. Those guys probably hunting elk with a Carl Gustav.
I had an 8mm mag BDL in the 80s. I let someone talk me out of it and have been sick about it every since. I years later got a 25 STW (7 STW necked down to 25) better known as a Hot Tamale and it is my favorite gun that I have. I’ve killed everything from Eland to white tail to coyote and everything in between. It shoots an 80 grain Barnes ttsx over 4,000 fps. My barrel is still holding up and I’m about 120 rounds in to it. I can’t remember ever shooting anything more than once with it and they drop like rocks. I have gone to a 28 Nosler now that I run a Thunder Beast ultra 7 on. It is a Christensen FFT with a 22 inch barrel. I just couldn’t get use to the long barrels with a can on it.
The Shooting Times Cartridges were Lazzaroni's before their time. Both faded to obsolescence.
Just picked up a 7 STW in Weatherby. Looking forward to loading it up. Turning into a .284 guy. 7 SAUM, 280 AI, 28 Nosler, 7mm PRC now 7 STW nice !
Another 7 I didn't hear you mention was the 7rum . That was Another lead balloon .
Here now. That's my favorite rifle. I wouldn't call it a lead balloon, more like a freakin laser beam. An upgrade to the STW.
@nt3523 lol I didn't say it wasn't a great round cause it is. It's just a shame it didn't take off as well. Personally I like anything 7mm.
I want the 7 SAUM lead balloon talk.
The short magnums were just at the tail end of the "light bullet, fast and flat" trend. They include the 270WSM, 7mm SAUM, 7mm WSM, 300 SAUM, 300 WSM, 325 WSM, followed a few years later by the 300 RCM and 338 RCM). The WSMs were faster than the others, so they "won" in comparison articles in magazines which only looked at velocity.
The 7 SAUM was more appreciated by the target shooters than hunters since it had a better freebore/throat design than the WSMs and tended to be more accurate (or at least, easier to find an accurate load). It is still popular in some circles in a modified form. The cartridge itself is the same, but it is used with longer, higher BC bullets and put in a longer action with a faster twist barrel. SAAMI max COAL is 2.825", but it is commonly now loaded to over 3.1".
The 7 SAUM has a slightly smaller case than the 7mm WSM, and in the "higher velocity is always better" days, the SAUMs lost out to the WSMs. My guess is that so many short magnums came out at roughly the same time that the market was too split for most of them to succeed . The 300 WSM seems to be the main one that is doing reasonably well.
Have you done 7-30 Waters?
I had an Abolt browning stainless stalker, came from browning as a 7rem reamed to a 7stw. On the barrel it had written 7rem lined out, 7stw by browning stamped in the barrel.
It's interesting listening to these talks and the comments that I have in my own head, which inevitably you guys get to, like the fact that you can probably (for most hunting applications) get away with a 6.5 Creedmoor, 270, 7mm-08, 308, 30-06, or even step up a little to a 7 Rem Mag, 300 WSM or 300 Win Mag and be just fine. Not to downplay all of the new and neat stuff but at its core I guess that's why all of those cartridges have survived.
It’s not GMs fault the 6.6 had no power, that was the 1973 changes to emissions laws. Every US manufacturer basically cut the power in half that the engine would actually make reliably in order to meet the guidelines. Instead of putting tiny engines in them they left the big V8s so people could simply turn them up, as many did, right after they pulled it off the lot.
One first rifles as a kid was the 7mm STW. Remington 700 Sendero with a fluted stainless barrel and black stock with white swirl. Loved that rifle as it kicked like a mule and my buddies wouldn't shoot it. Funny thing about that round, the only deer in my life I lost, was taken with this rifle and a Core-Lokt. High shoulder shot from 105 yards. We found her the next afternoon and the bullet did it's job. Deer had to have been a bionic roid deer lol. This caliber is what got me into reloading as well. Life came along and I ended up needing a .308 for work. This was sacrificed and I would give almost anything to have it back. Great jobs guys!
Those senderos were in my opinion the finest rifles Remington ever produced
Back in the early 90’s had rifle started as a 338 win mag and I had it reamed out to fit a 8mm/ rem case.
So it became a .338/8mm mag. Like the 7 stw but with the 338 bullets. I wanted a 340 weatherby but gunsmith suggested to go this route. For hand loading I start the higher end of 340 recipes. No I would not do it again.
338/8mm mag sounds pretty awesome to me. Either in your 338 form or the original 8mm version I just can’t see a better elk cartridge.
Another reason for the benefit of 7 PRC over 7 STW to Jim's question about stuff bullet further back in the 7 STW would be that to get magazine COAL you are stuffing the same bullet back further in the case on the STW and even if the velocity is same on both, you would not likely get the same jump to lands in some instances due to Ogive shape on longer bullets and that may affect the STW's ability to get same accuracy if the bullet choice is picky about jump to lands distances.
Remington 700 7mm stw with either nosler 140 gr accubond or partition, is a tack driver! I flipped whitetails over backwards with that cartridge! My favorite 😊
What's everyone's view on the 6.5 grendel for deer hunting. I've had very good results with some hornady and am curious about your thoughts on the cartridge?
Best 7mm STW setups are Ruger #1’s in the V & then B models. While some were factory SSAMI spec, many were project rifles with extended chambering for the longer projectiles/higher BC’s. Haven’t seen one for a while but they were impressive setups.
I have a Custom Ruger No. 1 in 7mm STW and live in Houston.
I remember reading about this way back. Now these long, high BC bullets and laser range finders have changed shooting. I remember when everyone wanted more fps. & 270 win & 7 Rem were fast, & all the Weatherbys were “FAST!”
The answer to the capacity discussion around minute 14 is that the STW will still have more capacity, just not as much. The STW holds about 10 grains more water than 7mm PRC. A VLD bullet will consume less than half of that, so the STW will still have 6 grains additional capacity. That capacity may increase velocity by 1.5 %, or 50 fps. The extra room may also allow a bulkier, slower powder to be used that will increase velocity considerably more than the 50fps.
Jim is the best 😂
More cartridge talks!!!
Love the 10min ish talk
Obligatory comment for the WSSM series as lead balloons
Length action? My stw is in a ruger number one so those details do not concern me
My mentor and best friend back in college owned three rifles rem 700 in 7mm stw was one of them he had it built in like 1995. For western hunting primarily mule deer he wanted to take a world class mulie. And had that rifle build specifically for that purpose of hunting the dakotas Wyoming etc. I believe the 7mm stw faded out cause it in competition with the lazzaroni cartridges at the time. I feel it faded out because it was more cartridge than what most of Americans needed back then shooting a thousand was a feat. The varmint hunting association back then would recognize in their magazine people who made into the thousand yard club which was a prairie at a thousand with witnesses and verification with range finders which using a rangefinder back then was hit and miss at times to get an accurate range. I considered the cartridge but went with a seven mag mostly for commercially available cartridge and reloading purposes.
To answer Jim’s question if we will come back to STW performance, we have in the ballistic equivalent called the 28 Nosler. It’s a modernized twin of the STW
Raw horsepower and rock and roll is what Nosler went with for there cartrages, I’m a firm believer in speed kills so 28 nos is my current favorite
Yes sir, 7mm STW is old school horsepower. Burn lots of slow powder to make velocity. I easily achieved 3500 fps with 140 grain.
Used a 6-18 Leupold with target knows. We had laser range finders to 600 yards. Didn't understand B.C. didn't care. We understand speed. Speed equals flat trajectory. 7mm ultra magnum. Same thing.
pretty sure this was an early popular super 7mm, the 28nosler, 7mm RUM, PRC, etc... hadn't appeared yet...
When this cartridge was first introduced, the bulk of the press was about how fast it could push lightweight bullets. Knowledgeable visionaries like Gary Sitton wrote that its best utility would be with heavy bullets. I don’t know this for certain, but it seems to me it was adversely impacted by the introduction of the 7mm RUM, which didn’t really improve upon the STW’s performance and just served to confuse shooters.
Love the 7mm stw, I have 2 of them myself. One factory and one custom. My custom is shooting a 200gr chinchaga at 3108 with necked up 6.5-300wby peterson brass. Best 7mm out there in my opinion.
How are you necking up the 6.5 case. What’s the process sir???? Been looking at options to load my STW….
This was popular in long range bench rest when it came out
I wonder how this thing compares to 7mm-300 PRC (300 PRC necked down to 7mm, for those confused).
Just looking at the cartridges, I suspect they will be in the same ballpark, but action length and twist rate become limiting issues for the STW. Traditionally, around 160-162 grains was about the heaviest bullet factory loaded for the STW. The SAAMI COAL of the 7mm STW is the standard magnum length of 3.6". The 300 PRC case has a little less capacity but it is shorter, allowing the bullet to be loaded farther out on the 7mm-300 PRC. This means with long bullets, muzzle velocity will be close because more of the bullet is inside the STW case, eating up powder space. The question is whether the STW will stabilize long-for-caliber, high BC bullets. With shorter, lighter bullets, the STW gains more speed since it can use more of its case capacity for powder. Some will argue that the shorter, fatter powder column of the PRC will help with accuracy, but I have not seen side by side tests.
"Batman has a belt, and that's all I have to say about that" Greatness
My remington 700, with a mcgowen 26 inch remage barrel, 175 grain accubond long range, shoots a .387 group with 86.5 grains of rl33 at 3186 fps. Good luck getting a prc anywhere near close.
Exactly. PRC is not even close to it's performance.
Build a 7stw with a 4" Wyatt box and zero single feed and push the 180 to 195 to 3100 fps. PRC crying in the corner.
Next time have someone on set that built one properly and try to compare it. PRC goes home crying
Funny I came across this. I do own a Remington Sendero SFII in 7mm STW. It goes fast and flat and kicks. But it was out-performed indeed. Still a nice rifle with fluting and everything. And boy do it kick!
Can we get a lead balloon talk about the parent case? 8mm rem mag. Im from the neighbor state to id love to even make it over to Wisconsin with it!
I would love to hear a podcast about muzzleloading hunting. I think it's a wonderful way to take game early and it makes you feel like the mountain men of old.
I have a 700 sendero 7mag that was reamed into a stw. Been shooting magnums since before my pops should have let me. My elk gun now is a 7 rem mag, my two fav cartridges are 223/308 and I’ve never shot paper or at long range better than I do today.
I still have and hunt with my 7mm STW I had built in 1995. Took a caribou at 555 yards with it and it sounded like it got by a semi truck (and it looked just like it did!). 140 Winchester Supreme Ballistic Silvertip ammo. Now the magic in this cartridge is a 168 gr Berger vld hunting at 3200fps. All copper bullets are not good for the STW, needs to be a lead core to keep the overall length within its optimum. More efficient than the 28 Nosler being that the actual real world velocities are nearly the same with far less propellant. I did have a laser range finder back then but they were not capable of anything but give you a distance. A Shepherd scope with the matching reticle and the old laser and you were in really good shape. Remington 700 BDL Left Handed. I am thinking that the CDL is a post STW model. I only recall the BDL and ADL models back at the time I had mine built. Gunsmith couldn't keep up with just the rechambering jobs to STW back then.
Idk about that, the advertised case capacities are almost the same, so all things equal it should perform pretty similar. That said, with good ADG brass i’ve seen over 3260 with berger 180 vld’s in my 28 nosler. 28” barrel. 81.5 grains retumbo, id say its pretty efficient. Both rounds could benefit from longer throat and mag lengths to seat the big high bc’s out of the case
Great Stuff 💯💥💥💥💥💥💥💥
Let's hear a 10 minute talk on the 22 eargesplitten loudenboomer 5,000 fps
the 8mm rem mag was very popular where i grew up, I'd buy one if i hunted large game on a regular basis for sure
👍 Good Job Guys! 🥳
You should do a 10min talk on the 260 rem and why you got rid of it.
I'll give my two cents on Jim's thoughts about High HP cartridges vs efficient cartridges trend. I like and appreciate efficient cartridges. I don't own an overbore cartridge and tend to like cartridges that do as much with less. (Mark would be proud....I just added a 300 WSM) I think the efficient case/high bc thing is going to be around for a while. That being said, since I don't have a stupid big, absolutely uncalled for and something I would never need cartridge, that'll be my next build. My next one is going to be a 338 Edge. To be honest, having one that you can hand someone the cartridge and them say "...whoa", is a good enough reason for me.
6mm arc. Was super hot, then not. Granted I love my 6.5x39 (grendel) because I use a gas gun. I’m not shooting a deer with a 6 arc. 108gr vs my 129gr 6.5. Pine forests of the east coast. Bigger bullet.
My state says it’s illegal to hunt with smaller than .230. So 6 arc is legal but I feel like the heavier larger 6.5 is better because I don’t want it running 200+ yards.
6 arc fell of fast. All the rage at shot ‘22. Then disappeared. I like 6.5 grendel, AR15 sized, heavy, potential, legal. A .243 gas gun now I’m going why not a .308 at AR10 size.
I sure hope Jim’s a mopar guy.
So if one were to have a rem Remington 700 7 STW, and didn’t reload. Also didn’t want to pay 120$ a box. What would they re chamber it to ?
I had one years ago before it was commercially available. Used 300 Weatherby nickel case, rl22, 140 grain HT bullets at 3650. A winchester 375 h&H action, 27.5 shillen barrel with brake. It shot 160 partitions as well.
3 inches high at 100 put you 3.5 low at 400.
"everyone knows 5.56 is better" 😂😂😂
Had mine built in 1995, by re-barreling a Sako TRG-S that was in 375 H&H, with a 30 inch polygonal twist barrel. It would push Nosler 120gr Ballistic Tips at stupid velocities (3800fps??) and just explode jack rabbits at 250 yards. Literally blew a coyote in two at around 200 yards. Sold it having never really rang it out with a proper optic to see what it could do. Love the 7mm bullets and went the other way and built a 20" 7mm BR on another Sako action, and that became my dominate coyote rifle. One third the powder and muzzle blast and still just "turned off" the coyote.
My shooting partner has one, we call it “The landmine” ….100gr hollow point @ 4k fps ! Fox 🦊 don’t like it much 😂 To quote the guy who built it “This makes deader than dead….chunks” 😂