I'm in the process of building myself my set-up. Bought some round mirrors on Amazon. The interesting point is that it seems you don't need to buy expensive first-surface mirror, but you can turn a cheap second surface mirror into a first surface mirror! There are plenty of how-tos on UA-cam, the trick is just to remove the protective coat of the metallized side with some paint stripper (the very alcaline solution) Let it soak for several hours! In my first attempt, I just waited one hour or so. I could remove the coat with a wooden ice cream stick, but it severed the metallization that is only a few atoms thick. Then neutralize and rinse with white spirit or similar. At this stage I tried to protect the aluminium from oxidation with a layer of thinned car varnish. I tried to flatten the coat by spinning the mirror with an electric drill (that what they do for silicium waffers...), but this was not a success... too slow?. My next try will be to use an air brush... But some other youtubers says this is not really necessary, and the oxidation is visible only after years... So anybody else with experience with DIY first surface mirrors?
This is a brilliant post, thanks for sharing this knowledge. We'd really like to encourage folks to experiment in any way they like but it may be handy to say that we expect delivery of 1000 first surface mirrors just the other side of Christmas which we will be giving away (plus the cost of p&p)
There is the following of my experience... You see, I'm a maker more than a painter, so I tried my best to get a good tool... - Dimension of the boards: Since my printer can do some A4 (21 x 29,7 cm) I wanted to be able to reproduce two pages, so an A3 (42 x 29,7), so I opted to something just a bit larger to leave room for the tape : 35 (depth or the floor board) x 45 (large). It happens that 45 x 45 would have been better, since at least 5cm are unusable at the hinge (too parallel to the mirror to see any reflection), and the page should not be too close of the mast of the mirror. - Fixing the too boards; I used shelf brackets, but they were not perfectly square so I could not get a fix image. 1 degree of, and you spend hours to find where is your problem. I used some thick paper under one side of the bracket, and used a big set square! I first used a small one and could not get a good enough result : all this to say that I really believe that an approximative solution might bring you disappointments. - Diameter of the mirror: First I tried a 5cm, but it's too large. There is always a slight deviation from one side of the mirror to the other. The bigger the mirror, the bigger the deviation. With a 2,5 cm mirror, the deviation is much less visible, so you can compare on any side of the mirror without having the feeling that you missed the alignment the previous time, not remembering which side you used. - Mast holding the mirror: that was my biggest effort. I realized very soon that a mispositioned mirror of a few millimetres was inducing dramatic deformation of the resulting image. So I used a rigid mast (an aluminium tube, diameter 6mm), and used my 3D printer for the foot of the mast, and the mirror holder. My first foot was rather small, held by a single magnet. but the positioning was not precise enough. If you have touched the mast, no way to reposition it exactly to retrieve your reference. So I designed a system with two screw to millimetricaly position the mirror in height (and so get the 45°), and the azimuth to be strictly perpendicular to the front board. The tuning is done with a square page on the front board : if you get a trapeze on the floor; your angles are wrong! - I'm trying now to reproduce the "girl with a pearl" of Vermeer... Quite pretentious of me, but still his simplest composition, I think... And if I'm please with my system, I will publish my 3D plans on Thingiverse. - Oh, one more thing: I found that inclining the board was very comfortable to work seated instead of bending over the masterpiece... And it's also very useful be be able to juge the daub from a distance, where you see all your mistakes: one reason more to have a sturdy system to hold the boards and the mirror!
Even when I bought a first surface mirror, from an optics firm, they were only about 12 dollars on ebay. But I actually used 2" squares or rounds from Amazon, and just cleaned them off with paint stripper.
I got my kit today. The little magnets do not fit exactly into the base piece --they are a little too big. Are we supposed to hammer them in? Also, when we glue a magnet to the mirror does have to be exactly centered?
Hi Jane. Last point first. You don't have to centre the magnet perfectly but it always makes me feel better. As for the base magnet you will find that it is a tight fit but it will go. I would not advise hammering the magnet in but a little pencil lead should do the trick. Perhaps I'll demonstrate this.
Hi there, the maximum size possible with any comparator set up is about 24 inches. However you can paint at any size going section by section or (as Tomas demonstrates in episode 5) you can use the comparator to paint small sections of detail into a larger canvas.
I don't think the 45 degree thing is all that crazy important. My mirror is adjustable so I can tune it up, but if you look at Tim's video segment on his process, the video is on UA-cam, his source and mirror are not close to 45 degrees. As a teaching aid, I ripped through the mirror practice pretty quickly. I used it for the first portrait I ever attempted, basically the first painting (may have done some plein air first), and as soon I I got the likeness from the mirror, I realized it was faster to do picture to picture comparison, so I was basically painting like a painter. I would check the mirror if I lost the plot. From that first experience I realized I could get a likeness with only a few points of reference, and then regular work, so I started using calipers to lay out the basic points. This is basically classic technique, of measurement similar to people sighting with brushes. The thing with oil is you do not need to be right from the start, you can move lines easily. So learning to compare by eye is part of the challenge, and the mirror speeds that up for a beginner. But that exercise does not actually require a super accurate mirror placement. Just as in Tim's example, what counts most is basic proportions and all the relevant parts in proper relationship to each other. Probably most of the portraits ever made were actually off a little, to make the person look thinner, or whatever. I wouldn't let the perfect mirror setup stop one from trying this out. Tim's source, looked of by 5 degrees or more. I am not even sure anything happens to the image if it is off. Nothing happens to my image in a bathroom mirror if I lean forward or back. As long as one can see the image in the mirror, it seems pretty proportional. That is part of the magic in the mirror, it is not subject to optical distortions, it seems.
This is a great comment, thanks Hondo. If the mirror is slightly off the source will swim in the mirror which is not ideal but still workable... if you try this youll see what i mean. In every other aspect we salute you! Best wishes PL
Thanks for the great explanations! I'm looking forward to try this! Where can I get the kit? I'm struggling to find a first surface mirror in Spain :( Thanks in advance!
If you are after an optical mirror there are many online retailers (although you'll be hard pushed to find one for less than $50). Our kit, which includes a mirror, is available by emailing us at contact@paintinglab.com. This kit is free although if you think it's useful we welcome donations and we will explain how this can be done in our first email to you. Many thanks for the question!
Everything starts with an email to contact@paintinglab.com. just send us your postal details and we'll send you a kit. If yould like to make a donation we'll also tell you how you can do that.
Sure, the wood doesn't need to be exact dimensions but I'm using about 12 inches by 9. at least one machine cut edge will be really helpful in achieving that right angle corner though.
I tried that also, remembered them from my backpacking days. But maybe the color in the first surface mirror is actually better. First surface mirrors were cheaper, as I just got a 12 pack from Amazon, for the same price they were charging for a backpacking mirror. And then removed the coating of the plain mirror with some paint stripper on a rag.
Same here. I likely saw that same video you did by James. I've never seen this before, although I use other "truing" devices and methods such as grids, proportional dividers, etc, when going for exact realism or portraits. I'm definitely going to get one of these comparator mirrors. Very intriguing!
Thanks Cesar, you have hit on the central question I have been asking for a decade. Have a look at my 'power of paint' documentary and see what you think.
My art teacher told me that there is no such thing as cheating in art. Use whatever means, methods, tools you can to create your own ORIGINAL artwork. The important thing is to MAKE ART. I wonder if the impressionists thought tubed ready made paint was cheating? Or if riding a bicycle to make a journey faster, easier, possible even was cheating. I'm the kind of person who is always looking for a better way to do ANYTHING ie easier, faster, cheaper, more accurately or effectively. This mirror idea excites me, along with augmented reality drawing aids.
I cant wait to get my mirror!
Hi Susan, We have just posted your kit. Check your email for a tracking number and some detailed instructions. Best Wishes, Chloe.
Yes this is awesome
I'm in the process of building myself my set-up. Bought some round mirrors on Amazon. The interesting point is that it seems you don't need to buy expensive first-surface mirror, but you can turn a cheap second surface mirror into a first surface mirror! There are plenty of how-tos on UA-cam, the trick is just to remove the protective coat of the metallized side with some paint stripper (the very alcaline solution) Let it soak for several hours! In my first attempt, I just waited one hour or so. I could remove the coat with a wooden ice cream stick, but it severed the metallization that is only a few atoms thick. Then neutralize and rinse with white spirit or similar.
At this stage I tried to protect the aluminium from oxidation with a layer of thinned car varnish. I tried to flatten the coat by spinning the mirror with an electric drill (that what they do for silicium waffers...), but this was not a success... too slow?.
My next try will be to use an air brush... But some other youtubers says this is not really necessary, and the oxidation is visible only after years...
So anybody else with experience with DIY first surface mirrors?
This is a brilliant post, thanks for sharing this knowledge. We'd really like to encourage folks to experiment in any way they like but it may be handy to say that we expect delivery of 1000 first surface mirrors just the other side of Christmas which we will be giving away (plus the cost of p&p)
There is the following of my experience... You see, I'm a maker more than a painter, so I tried my best to get a good tool...
- Dimension of the boards: Since my printer can do some A4 (21 x 29,7 cm) I wanted to be able to reproduce two pages, so an A3 (42 x 29,7), so I opted to something just a bit larger to leave room for the tape : 35 (depth or the floor board) x 45 (large). It happens that 45 x 45 would have been better, since at least 5cm are unusable at the hinge (too parallel to the mirror to see any reflection), and the page should not be too close of the mast of the mirror.
- Fixing the too boards; I used shelf brackets, but they were not perfectly square so I could not get a fix image. 1 degree of, and you spend hours to find where is your problem. I used some thick paper under one side of the bracket, and used a big set square! I first used a small one and could not get a good enough result : all this to say that I really believe that an approximative solution might bring you disappointments.
- Diameter of the mirror: First I tried a 5cm, but it's too large. There is always a slight deviation from one side of the mirror to the other. The bigger the mirror, the bigger the deviation. With a 2,5 cm mirror, the deviation is much less visible, so you can compare on any side of the mirror without having the feeling that you missed the alignment the previous time, not remembering which side you used.
- Mast holding the mirror: that was my biggest effort. I realized very soon that a mispositioned mirror of a few millimetres was inducing dramatic deformation of the resulting image. So I used a rigid mast (an aluminium tube, diameter 6mm), and used my 3D printer for the foot of the mast, and the mirror holder. My first foot was rather small, held by a single magnet. but the positioning was not precise enough. If you have touched the mast, no way to reposition it exactly to retrieve your reference. So I designed a system with two screw to millimetricaly position the mirror in height (and so get the 45°), and the azimuth to be strictly perpendicular to the front board. The tuning is done with a square page on the front board : if you get a trapeze on the floor; your angles are wrong!
- I'm trying now to reproduce the "girl with a pearl" of Vermeer... Quite pretentious of me, but still his simplest composition, I think... And if I'm please with my system, I will publish my 3D plans on Thingiverse.
- Oh, one more thing: I found that inclining the board was very comfortable to work seated instead of bending over the masterpiece... And it's also very useful be be able to juge the daub from a distance, where you see all your mistakes: one reason more to have a sturdy system to hold the boards and the mirror!
Even when I bought a first surface mirror, from an optics firm, they were only about 12 dollars on ebay. But I actually used 2" squares or rounds from Amazon, and just cleaned them off with paint stripper.
Jean-Léon Gérôme used photo reference. There's a quote of him saying it. But if you can proficiently draw from life, then it ain't cheating.
Got mine in the post today. Can’t wait to get started. Thanks so much, Tomas! 🤘🏻🙌🏻
Great stuff Ben. I'll be posting a booster kit assembly video in the next few days.
@@paintinglabofficial Awesome! 😁
I got my kit today. The little magnets do not fit exactly into the base piece --they are a little too big. Are we supposed to hammer them in? Also, when we glue a magnet to the mirror does have to be exactly centered?
Hi Jane. Last point first. You don't have to centre the magnet perfectly but it always makes me feel better. As for the base magnet you will find that it is a tight fit but it will go. I would not advise hammering the magnet in but a little pencil lead should do the trick. Perhaps I'll demonstrate this.
Hi Jane. I have mentioned this in the new video (episode 8)
Can one do large paintings?
Hi there, the maximum size possible with any comparator set up is about 24 inches. However you can paint at any size going section by section or (as Tomas demonstrates in episode 5) you can use the comparator to paint small sections of detail into a larger canvas.
I don't think the 45 degree thing is all that crazy important. My mirror is adjustable so I can tune it up, but if you look at Tim's video segment on his process, the video is on UA-cam, his source and mirror are not close to 45 degrees.
As a teaching aid, I ripped through the mirror practice pretty quickly. I used it for the first portrait I ever attempted, basically the first painting (may have done some plein air first), and as soon I I got the likeness from the mirror, I realized it was faster to do picture to picture comparison, so I was basically painting like a painter. I would check the mirror if I lost the plot.
From that first experience I realized I could get a likeness with only a few points of reference, and then regular work, so I started using calipers to lay out the basic points. This is basically classic technique, of measurement similar to people sighting with brushes. The thing with oil is you do not need to be right from the start, you can move lines easily. So learning to compare by eye is part of the challenge, and the mirror speeds that up for a beginner. But that exercise does not actually require a super accurate mirror placement. Just as in Tim's example, what counts most is basic proportions and all the relevant parts in proper relationship to each other. Probably most of the portraits ever made were actually off a little, to make the person look thinner, or whatever. I wouldn't let the perfect mirror setup stop one from trying this out. Tim's source, looked of by 5 degrees or more. I am not even sure anything happens to the image if it is off. Nothing happens to my image in a bathroom mirror if I lean forward or back. As long as one can see the image in the mirror, it seems pretty proportional. That is part of the magic in the mirror, it is not subject to optical distortions, it seems.
This is a great comment, thanks Hondo. If the mirror is slightly off the source will swim in the mirror which is not ideal but still workable... if you try this youll see what i mean. In every other aspect we salute you! Best wishes PL
Thanks for the great explanations!
I'm looking forward to try this! Where can I get the kit?
I'm struggling to find a first surface mirror in Spain :(
Thanks in advance!
Hi jon, just email us at contact@paintinglab.com and we can get a kit to you. Thanks muchly for your comment!
If you want to buy this mirror, where will you get it?
If you are after an optical mirror there are many online retailers (although you'll be hard pushed to find one for less than $50). Our kit, which includes a mirror, is available by emailing us at contact@paintinglab.com. This kit is free although if you think it's useful we welcome donations and we will explain how this can be done in our first email to you. Many thanks for the question!
How can I buy your comparator mirror kit?
Everything starts with an email to contact@paintinglab.com. just send us your postal details and we'll send you a kit. If yould like to make a donation we'll also tell you how you can do that.
Do you ship to America?
we certainly do. we ship to anywhere Sean. thanks for your comments btw.
@@paintinglabofficial Awesome. I sent you an email. Can't wait! Thanks
Hard disk platters are great mirrors (oddy shape tho).
Thats a very good idea Julio. left field, but very good!
Another helpful video. I have your Comparator Mirror Kit (Thank You!) I was wondering if I could get the dimensions of the wood. Thanks!!!
Sure, the wood doesn't need to be exact dimensions but I'm using about 12 inches by 9. at least one machine cut edge will be really helpful in achieving that right angle corner though.
@@paintinglabofficial Wow! That was fast! Again thank you!
inches. About 30 x 25cm
Get a small round glass mirror and remove the paint on the back.
In US the cheapest mirror I have found is a Coghlan's Acrylic front surface mirror #8501. $3.12 at Walmart.
I tried that also, remembered them from my backpacking days. But maybe the color in the first surface mirror is actually better. First surface mirrors were cheaper, as I just got a 12 pack from Amazon, for the same price they were charging for a backpacking mirror. And then removed the coating of the plain mirror with some paint stripper on a rag.
James Gurney sent me here.
Same here. I likely saw that same video you did by James. I've never seen this before, although I use other "truing" devices and methods such as grids, proportional dividers, etc, when going for exact realism or portraits. I'm definitely going to get one of these comparator mirrors. Very intriguing!
whats the point...that don`t show your bruhstrokes in accuracy, better a projector to draw.
Try it and find out.
Is this cheating though?
Thanks Cesar, you have hit on the central question I have been asking for a decade. Have a look at my 'power of paint' documentary and see what you think.
@Painting Lab I don't believe it's cheating, it's more of a tool. Many famous portrait artists have always used grids and projectors.
My art teacher told me that there is no such thing as cheating in art. Use whatever means, methods, tools you can to create your own ORIGINAL artwork. The important thing is to MAKE ART.
I wonder if the impressionists thought tubed ready made paint was cheating? Or if riding a bicycle to make a journey faster, easier, possible even was cheating.
I'm the kind of person who is always looking for a better way to do ANYTHING ie easier, faster, cheaper, more accurately or effectively.
This mirror idea excites me, along with augmented reality drawing aids.