Something I would like to add with YuGiOh is that, contrary to what some people think, Archetypes don't actually restrict Deck building. YuGiOh is a game with no inherent restriction of what you put in your Deck, unlike something like One Piece for example, were you can only play cards of your Leader's color, or Magic, were you need mana of specific colors. Instead, all of the restriction on YuGiOh comes from the cards effects themselves, and most of time these only affect your plays after using said card and only for the turn it was used. That means: 1. You can construct your Deck in a way were you can avoid and/or play around these locks 2. You can play in a way to mitigate this locks 3. You can still use cards that are usually out of access due to this locks, to play on corner cases your Deck usually can't deal with (this is also thanks to the existence of the Extra Deck most of the times) 4. The developers can design cards and archetypes with different types of locks and different degrees of restrictions This is how we get Decks that combine different archetypes, like any of the thousands of Runick versions, Decks that are pile of little synergies that have something in common, like the different Type based Decks (Zombies and Dinos for example) and Decks that are absolutes abominations made to do the most nonesensical combo you have ever seen for the most shitpost pay off you can think off, like anyone subscribed to Luke von Karma can testify. Is thanks to things like this that you can pretty regulary in places like reddit old players saying that archetypes ruined the game, and at the same exact time new-ish players saying that Pile Decks and cards with no archetype restrictions ruined it lol
I think that Archetypes and mana color are more similar, really. Neither are a hard limitation. You may play every color of card you want in your deck in magic, you just need to build to be able to pay the required mana. A 5 color deck is totally possible, you just need to make added concessions to your mana base to make it work smoothly. Magic already has enough tools in most formats to easily accommodate playing 2 or even 3 colors with such smoothness that it is hardly a consistency drop from 1 color. The only format that hard locks you into playing your colors is Commander, which has added rules around that. Both also serve to help silo away effects from different groups. Archetypes keep a searcher from being universal and just grabbing anything you want, or from a broken boss from being formed from just anything lying around (though plenty have such low restrictions that they are generic anyways). Magic colors do the same. You really don't want a deck that can, with the same two lands up, be representing both a powerful burn spell to go face/kill something, and counterspell. At least not unless they paid the price of getting out multicolor lands. Without colors giving some limitations on what can come out when, magic would be a hell of like roided out spell control/burn piles probably.
Also the Extra Deck contributes to it. You play something like the new Rank 4 focused Ryzeal and outside of the 2 Ryzeal Xyz monsters your Extra Deck is basically whatever you feel like is good in the deck. Or if you play a Synchro deck that goes into 8s you can fill spots with generic good monsters like Psyframelord Omega or Draco Berserker. Ever since the game has stopped focusing on the anime most archetypes have gotten progressively smaller which does have its own set of issues but it also means that there's more room for players to make decisions on what they do with limited deck space. Also even within an archetype you can play it in an entirely different way than other people based on tech cards. Sky Striker was originally a grindy control deck, but as power creep made it too slow to compete it was able to tech in floodgates and play more like a stun deck, and with some of the new support now it has a build that can be more aggressive and push as an OTK deck, and not a lot of the deck's core has needed changing between these variants.
Most of the good cards nowadays don't have any restrictions, so we're free to just jam them all together until they get banned. It's like we're playing Goat format all over again.
Fundamentally I find Yugioh more fun (both old and modern) over Magic. The ability to just play your cards freely provides a much more dynamic game to me. All the cards in my hand (sans bricks) are live, whereas in Magic your play lines and choices to interact with the opponent are limited by mana. However Konami has done a poor job of balancing the metagame throughout its entire history in comparison to pretty much every other game out there. So many formats are so close to being great but there’s almost always a few problem cards and an overpowered deck that does something unfair to leave a sour taste in people’s mouth. Now if you can play in a more casual setting and omit those cards, yugioh is an absolute blast. Or conversely at the very highest levels of competitive play, embracing the meta and trying to problem solve the format is also what makes it fantastic.
I feel like I understand where your coming from, but as someone who spent 20 years with yugioh to now come to magic, the difference is no longer the self expression. My favorite deck in yugioh is and always will be dragon maid, because that was just what spoke with me and nothing new really has. Then you go into a casual game,and all you find are people playing meta or quitting 2 turns in because they didnt combo off. When i moved to magic, i found the color system daunting and limiting, until i realized how important it was in keeping the game paced, focused, and controlled. If i go up against a mono red deck, i can guess what my opponents trying to do and start my game around that, but the second more colors get involved, i have to quickly figure out what theyre building towards. Self expression fails if it doesnt have the fun behind it to allow a player to trully feel like its paying them back for their love. Old yugioh was better than magic, but it failed in the last 5-10 years with its exponential power creep.
I totally get it tbh. I avoid playing competitively or meta if I can and my play group for yugioh is pretty chill and fun centric. No one is playing Kash or snake eyes and all that so we can really lean into the fun factor
@@OOMTG I mean at that point it's the whole commander debate. Most people are going into card games nowadays through the free games that exist, magic arena or online, vs yugioh master duel. Arena, as long as you stay casual, IS casual, it's people playing for fun and trying to do something funny (except nadu), where as master duel was almost always playing meta in casual, but not at the super sweaty level. Idk it's just sour to see the thing I've loved since I was 4 years old turn out this way
I did not belive there was Dragon maids so i looked it up, i know little about Yugioh, i watched the GX Anime, i'm a magic player and the Yugioh deck i have been eyeing up the most is Skul Servent
@@soulhelper7027 idk, man seems weird if your local have that type mentality, unless you played online now that a different story, also if do so you played local with that mentality player inside it I suggest change to other locals. From my experience it is super rare that people scoop early or bring sweaty decks to locals, yes there's one other local that I sometimes go to have a super sweaty environment. Most of the time, people who play at local actually just play pet deck all the time, and just for hangout or meet new people.
I think it’s curious that you say that Yugioh has more space for individual expression when the constant archetype powercreep is something that has always felt so stifling to me and kept me from the game. If my favourite archetype falls behind in strength but all the new strong ones don’t resonate with me then what am I left with? Magic has always felt like a limitless space for self expression. You may say that all of the colors play the same across sets and have no “archetype” identity but that feels inherently wrong when each set (whether new or a return to an older plane) brings with it a whole new flavor to the mechanics. Like how many games of Yugioh can you win with alternate win conditions? Or really niche but interesting deck concepts like lantern control? Yugioh has definitely better marketing to bring players into the game, I’ll admit. Magic has always felt like it was really daunting and scary to approach but in reality it’s so free to explore and has plenty of formats for anyone of any experience level.
I definitely understand where you're coming from with a lot of this. I think I just lowkey accept that on some level power creep will happen with any tcg so moving to a new deck is something I expect to happen - BUT it definitely sucks if you're in a spot where nothing new calls to you. As for the new mechanics with each set bringing diversity that can be kind of hit or miss. When each color has their own theme in a new set that can be awesome. Bloomburrow for example, 10/10. But plenty of sets can feel kind of homogenous when that isn't the focus. And with win cons, I tend to seek out really unique decks in yugioh specifically that don't so much win their own way, but PLAY their own way. Nemlaria for example is one I fell in love with. The mini game of managing and banishing your extra deck rather than focusing on board development was SUPER interesting to me. Same with darkworld, dinomorphia, sky-striker, etc. Either way I hope you at least enjoyed the video and that your upcoming weekend is a good one!
I think not only does gameplay affect player expression but also the aesthetic and art of your cards also allow you to express yourself. It mignt sound cringe but unironically I beleive "screw your zodiac sign tell me what your favorite yugioh archetype is" because of the wide range in aesthetics that yugioh is allowed to go for and how specific they can be. What books, movies, games, history, or concepts do you enjoy? Theres probably an archetype for that or there'll be something that you can connect withm demon-gun wielding cowboys, sushi battleships, bear gundams, Romance of the Three Kingdoms. And there is a lot of fun gameplay niches that yugioh has no other decks can play. Vaylantz is pendulum deck based off tabletop board games so you have to move your figures from the spell and trap zone up into the monster zone to get them into play and then you can move them around your board for different effects. The Springans are soot and ash like beings whi insert themselves into missles like robot bodies and they play by firing themselves off from their main battleship into the opponents board to destroy cards in a AoE pattern and then they can load themselves back onto the ship to fire again. My favorite deck is the Generaiders who are a deck based on if the 9 norse realms were represented as video game boss monsters so their field spell is a "Boss Stage" and it triggers when your opponent draws aka "stepping into the boss stage" which then lets you summon one of the boss monsters from the deck and then fill your board with minion tokens to use the effects of your boss monsters. Theres a plethora of fun playstyles if you look for them. I will admit balance is definitely a big problem. Like you said sometimes your favorite deck is just not able to surivive much less thrive in the modern meta landscape. And while I do think there is something to be said about perfomring well with rogue decks especially if you find something in yugiohs 10000+ card pool that can help you win with your pet deck its a pretty good feeling. I'll also say Konami recently has been on the ball when it comes to legacy support and since the power level of a yugioh card can be so high you really only need one wave of support to bring your deck back into the playable area. For instance just yesterday konami released support for Jurrac which was a bad archetype when it released and in modern day I would say the decks effects are so bad they're all practically vanilla. But with the recent support konami have made it viable reliant on pretty making the archetype "what if the meteor that killed the dinosaurs was a dinosaur and was constantly crashing into the board blowing it up and you benefit off your dinosaurs being blown up. Yugioh archetypes just scratch that itch that mtg just doesn't but magic scratches a completely different itch for me so im glad how different the two games are and that I can appreciate them both
Also, play Infernoble without Isolde it’s fun you can summon Great Shogun Shien with the worst card you’ve seen in your life all while you’re summoning french anime boys it’s peak
As someone who has started with Yugioh and got into magic as well, both games have their pros and cons. I love the crazy high power level and speed of yugioh, my favorite deck of all time is an anime based archetype with a card Junk Speeder that provides so much card advantage that if not answered basically wins the game on the spot. I also love the draft formats of magic and the grindy and slow games magic can provide. I feel that people should not pit the games against each other because they both provide very different experiences
Oh for sure! I hope this didn't come across as hating either game or saying either is strictly better. Both are fantastic, I just want more ways to CONNECT with magic and used yugioh as an example of how
@@OOMTG Your video is great, it didn’t come across as you hating either game. I was just saying that the general discourse that tends to happen when talking about MTG and Yugioh from people who haven’t played both is always trying to “prove” which one is better
I play both Magic and Yugioh. Magic is fun for me for a while but I quickly lose interest in the resource management department. I feel like I want to see and play my favorite cards but I hate that I have to gather resources to play them. The fast paced play style of yugioh is where I thrive. I have a boss monster either in my ED or main deck and 15 cards out of the 40 cards in my deck will access that monster. I don't need a mulligan because more often than not I'm going to combo off even if my opponent has a response. The boring part of Magic is the first 5 or so turns for me then it can be really fun. I play mostly control decks in Magic and building up to start controlling the board is boring but once I'm there I'm having a great time. The boring part of yugioh is late game plays as the beginning is fast and explosive. In yugioh I center more towards combo over control. The archetypes are 100% what kept me playing yugioh over Magic in the end. I can play big friggen birds with guns (Raidraptors) that's as American as Apple pie and baseball. Sky Strikers, 1 (or possibly multiple now) girl that changes her mech suit to meet any challenge thrown her way. 2 Vtuber girls that moonlight as world class thieves (Live Twin Evil Twins). The archetypes are amazing, their stories get told over the card art in more of a show don't tell fashion as MTG is told over flavor text which just doesn't resonate with me as well. And don't even get me started on dual archetype decks. Magic might have dual to multi color decks but you can grab 2, hell, sometimes 3 or 4 fun decks in yugioh and smash them together to make an even better deck. Live Twins are cool and all but what happens when they break into a place and steal a cursed object that unleashes the Unchained Twins? Live Twin Unchained is probably my second favorite deck of all time and it's amazing. Both Live Twin and Unchained are pretty okay decks but when together are a whole different beast. Thanks for coming to my TedTalk.
As an ex ygo player, magic has given me the freedom to express myself more than ygo ever will or has. No matter what i make in magic it will always keep up or even demolish. In ygo its so dishearting to see how outclassed all my favorite archetypes are by whatever new thing comes out
You can play casually w your favorite archetypes and a lot of times old archetypes get new support that brings them to the competitive scene, like for example right now a lot of duel terminal decks are getting new stuff. Decks like dark magician, heroes, blue eyes, phatom knights, Odd Eyes, and other decks from the anime that i’m not gonna mention for the sake of not writing an essay get consistent support to always keep them relevant in the casual scene. Is not as bad as you think over here.
@@hexi9595 I played ygo for over ten years I just don't agree man. Its just so disheartening losing because i lost the coin toss and now I'm facing down a 7 negate board while I only have 6 cards in my hand like I literally don't have enough cards to even play the game.
What archetypes did you like? I’m curious. Obviously, you can’t face down FS SE with Blue Eyes, but there are so many playable archetypes. On MD, I was making Deskbot Vernusylph work.
@@frosticle6409 I played infernity, D/D/D, Monarchs, Blue Eyes Chaos Max, Kaiju Trains, Predaplants, and Fur Hire. And I like to play in person playing card games behind a screen isn't fun for me
I've never broken down what I've played in Magic as just colors. Especially with Commander, there's a ton of freedom when putting cards like Squirrels, Ninjas, and mechs (vehicles). I mostly come from playing Yu-Gi-Oh! first so I have the mentality of making "archetypes" or "this is the theme/gimmick" in Magic for fun. My favorite decks to use is a WUBRG deck that focuses on playing Nicol Bolas Dragon God, a Werewolf Deck due to the transforming mechanic, and Slivers cause they are a mix of Jurassic Park and Aliens. Both games have their variety. The issue with Yu-Gi-Oh! is that is often feels like you're being force into dropping older cards/decks for the new stuff due to how dramatic power creep is in the game compared to others, likely cause they have a resources system while Yu-Gi-Oh! technically does not (any more).
The more varied art style of Yugioh can make the game feel more appealing and varried even from just a visual standpoint. Magic is definitely a great game with crazy amounts of customization, but a lot of its art, while beautiful, can feel a bit "samey" outside of alternative arts. I really like both games, but Yugiohs visuals stand out a lot more.
It's never too late. the problem comes down to producers and rich money bags not understanding nor caring about the original MTG Lore, and those modern writers and creatives who want to use MTG's Lore as a vehicle to push some sort of agenda, or checklist of corporate and political talking points. What we really need is someone obessed with the batshit crazy lore of Early magic and start from there... Urza's descent into madness as he tries to save the multiverse, while he's brilliant and right 90% of the time, his hubris is his pride and ultimately the undoing of a great many plan he had set in motion. It's an awesome tale which touches all sorts of characters from that time. Taysir of Rabia, Freyalise, Daria, Kristina of the Woods, Commodore Guff, Barrin, Teferi, Jhoira, Xantcha, Karn...
As a native Yugioh player migrated to Magic id say its just wrong to say Magic doesn't have archetypes that work with each other. Theres an insane amount of synergistic archetypes that work together in Magic you have Merfolk, Eldrazi, Goblins, phyrexians, investigators, Angels, Demons, Humans,Kor the ten guildpacks, the ten 3color tribes of Tarkir, then theres new ones like the plant people and all the animals from bloomburrow. Also Magic also has Icons, but its more with the either their archetypes like Merfolk or color tribe.
I'm not saying Magix doesn't have archetypes. I'm saying 1. Those archetypes are much looser, and 2. It those archetypes are less effective I'm allowing players to demonstrate their own personality
There was actually was a cancelled Netflix Magic: The Gathering animated series that was fully scripted and voiced but never got animated. It was cancelled in 2020 and it makes me sad.
Magic the Gathering is the absolute KING of dropping the ball when it comes to having an expanded universe. Trying to get involved in MTG via the video games, any kind of TV show or the scant amount of written material available is frustrating. Even Cardfight Vanguard has an anime and it has far fewer players.
I really don't feel like there is a lot of self expression in Yugioh in terms of gameplay, almost every archetype does the same thing, you normal summon, which searches something you can special summon, summon that, Link or XYZ with them, get another search, etc. until you have a board state that prevents your opponent from playing the game. Half of every deck is still overrun with staple must have cards just like back in the day too, you always need as many copies as possible of Ash, Crossout, Called By, Imperm, etc. I've seen far more variety in how decks play in Magic than I ever have in Yugioh. The only perk Yugioh has with self expression is the card art which is much better than Magic's.
From somone who plays both. I'd say MTG is not as deverse as we make it out to be. No matter how "Unique" you thonk your deck is. You are still retrsicted by the color pie and mana curve. Magic may just drop a new mechanic in the game after each set but most of those mechanics don't really change that much.
@@MrMarvelMike The color pie isn't that much of a restriction since every color has access to just about everything from every other color nowadays, and the mana curve isn't restrictive at all when there are a million ways to ramp or cheat things out.
Magic has a manga. It's called "Destroy all humanity, they can't be regenerated" in reference to Wrath of God. Also many classic mtg creatures appeared in comics (because those are nerds) or pin up art (atog was chewing on a girl's dress.
Magic has the superior gameplay, in where it forces games to start slow and gently ramp up, where choices have to be made each turn. Yu-Gi-Oh! is more often than not over in three or four turns. On the other hand, I think Yu-Gi-Oh! has better "theming" with their archetypes. Because if you stick with one or two complementary archetypes and maybe a few generics, then it feels more like you are commanding a team that is your faction. Magic has sets that are themed, but to build a decent deck you almost HAVE to mix it thoroughly. Of course both games run into the problem that the "meta" often resolves itself around one or two decks, with minor variances at best. Frankly, I'd advocate for a format where you ban exactly the archetypes that are that overplayed in your current meta, and allow practically everything else. By secondary format I mean like commander etc. Not an official game for the crown, but just for fun where players can make decks that they actually enjoy playing with the archetypes or creatures they favor, without fear of that one game-breaking deck crushing it.
For Yu-Gi-Oh being too fast I can get but sometimes the game feels slower and more interactive when you get to the grind game when all your resources are spent and you have to figure out the correct play to beat your opponent That unfortunately doesn't happen with the current meta
I have a lot of respect for a synergistic archetypes in card games for sure. And I think the biggest and most important part about it is the fact that they offer payoffs for you executing combinations with cards which otherwise could be qualified as innocuous outside of their name. There is something really cool about putting pieces together and then watching those pieces which have different things in common pay off a cool win condition. I think that's why I like Commander so much in Magic because it is literally for the most part combining an archetype from cards that would otherwise have nothing to do with each other outside of their creature type or a type of ability that they have in common. But I am a bigger fan of when those archetypes come together naturally and not because the developers put them together. For me. That is one difference between Yu-Gi-Oh and Magic that I enjoy more in Magic. It feels like in Yu-Gi-Oh when there is an archetype it is designed to do a specific thing, whereas in Magic at least in Commander, the cards already do the thing you have to find the ways to put those things together
It’s a back and forth in my mind. I have always loved yugioh’s archetype model with some matching my ideals almost exactly. With a couple of friends they’ve felt straight out of luck not finding an archetype to identify with. Magic sets itself apart with strategies that are consistently added to and innovated upon so you’re rarely out of luck with what you want to do. A problem I often find in Magic though is my desire for aesthetic cohesiveness. I have yet to fall in love with any theme or tribe in Magic quite like I have with Blackwings
Yu-Gi-Oh! would be perfect if Konami created some alternative format depending on the card's power. Some people said, "You can play with anything you want". But I'm experienced enough to understand this scam. Because some (a lot) decks don't have the opportunity to compete even in their first release or after new support, S-Force and Dual Avatar, for example, my beloved. . Konami MD has created some limited low-power formats before. And they're great events. Too bad, these only last for 2 weeks for each event. . Alternative formats may be really bad for Konami's business. Because their Pay2Win strategy will never work if players have better alternatives to play the game. They only have 1 format and keep the format unbalanced. So they can sell the Overpower easy-to-pilot decks to low-skilled players at very high prices. As 25 y.o. game, and from an old company, they're too afraid to change their business strategy. . Btw, I love how this channel trying to show how good the YGO card game is. But YGO players trying their best to explain how bad the game is.
Sorry MTG, but I'm too hooked on summoning monsters named after Japanese onomatopoeia to use as material to summon a card that holds a part of the memories of a heavenly ghost-like creature and chooses to take the form of a giant mecha King of Hope who uses mythical creatures that can transform into various weapons to fight. (No, I am not making this archetype up.)
I could see archetypes like Yu-Gi-Oh working as a commander setup. Have something like Infernoble knight Charlse as your commander and have an ability work with creatures with infernoble in their name. It's not perfect, but using "in the name" effects similar to Digimon would be the best way to do a yugioh style archetype in magic.
I kind of disagree with magic to some degree. There are a number of things going on. Firstly, rotation. Due to rotation, how each color manifests is different as the standard meta rolls over. Sometimes blue has powerful counters, but other times it doesn't and has to lean more on bounce effects or something. Then, there are still more archetype like decks that have specific synergies and do something unusual for the color or just mechanically unique. Like, blue is normally control and draw color, but merfolk have a more aggro lean, using group buffers to push damage pretty fast. They can still use the blue counters and draw to enhance this, but they have their own unique synergy within themselves. In mirrodin, blue was focused on artifact turbo, with ways to get more mana specifically for artifacts, but that's not a common trait for the color at all times. Different sets have thus allowed the colors to change their personality with each iteration. Now, they do meld together into a slurry if you look at it from eternal formats like Commander or Modern, where cute synergies get bled out for the most high powered nitro turbo builds. But Magic had rotation and it's set system for a reason. That's why, say, Azorius decks in Return to Ravnika had a specific one turn delay theme that made them have a unique feel to blue white from another block. Sets also tend to have shared lore and art styles within themselves. The Rakdos guild has a very unique theming and artstyle that you won't see even in other red/black decks in other sets. And they can span multiple sets as sets do return to planes to reprise old looks and gameplay styles. Keywords also tend to enforce this variance in feel. Like, bloodrush gave Green Red during Gatecrash such a unique feel. Everything could flex into pump, making combat with them much more intimidating, but gave the decks a more all in feel as you pitched valuable troops for a one turn swing.
@@user-tg2zw6zx2c What are you talking about? What I am talking about is whether or not MTG can create unique feeling identities to it's colors between sets or if, like this video claims, they are very samey and blue is always blue and the same card every set, which I disagree with.
11:14 I'd say it's never too late. Shadowverse (a japanese Heartstone like digital card game) has relesed it's first Yugioh-like anime series on it's sixth year. The first season was bad, but it did bring new audience (like me) and then they did a GX-type sequeal which has concluded juat recently while it's a rotating card game and has it's own story depicted in cards themselves and story mode. With MTG doing universes beyond, I can see them making a series and then at it's conclusion releasing a standart set that lore-wise has no plot connections to the ongoing storylines. Also i'd like to remind that Duel Masters manga originally featured MTG instead of their own TCG and then there also exists a rom-com manga about teenagers playing MTG in the 90's. So they have done it in the past, technically
Limited Magic has archetypes not unlike yugioh ones in many ways. Outside of limited, they're usually not strong enough to impact constructed formats, but they do still exist, and if you're not drafting with them in mind, you're probably going to go 0-3. It's a little ironic because archetypes are the reason you can technically play limited with older yugioh sets and have fun but not newer ones. Largely because there are too many archetypes crammed in a set, with many cards having restrictive requirements that make them unplayable without enough support.
I personally really love the freedom in deckbuilding and fast pace yugioh offers. I've played a little magic and pokemon, but niether hit the same. I think runick is a great example of some of the best yugioh has to offer. Runick can be used in tandem with so many other decks each with their unique synergies and every variant plays different enough to have its own reasons to play. The other side of the coin is that I personally find lands as a system to be very annoying and frustating. I understand the benefits and that it has depth, but it feels like garbage and I don't like it.
Well I like 5 color cause I want to have a deck that uses all of the different strategies, I wanna a collection of adaptable cards, I want the personality of my deck to be freeform adaptation and a collectors style deck. It’s not that I don’t like the choices, I just really get bored when a deck is one strategy, ofc it’s always why my decks are a mess 😂
I stopped playing Yu-Gi-Oh back in 2012 because it got two complicated and stopped beuhg fun. But mtg allowed me to acctuly enjoy making decks and coming up with cool and created themes and archetypes. I knew a guy who played competitive mtg and had an unbeatable deck. My completely build from the ground up Treefolk Deck destroyed him because he never played against Treefolk and his deck wasn't prepared. The fact that i can play my childhood dream of commanding an army of Ents from Lord of the Rings is just completely bliss. And mtg has no restrictions on how many creatures you can have out. I honestly think that the biggest thing i love about mtg over Yu-Gi-Oh.
I guess but thats why i like yugioh better....space management rather than "oh i have no mana.....guess i literally can't even put down a card" like yeah you can play unlimited creatures.....but not if you have no lands...yugioh doesnt need land but you gotta think about how you use the 5 of each zone you are given...hope i'm making sense here
@@metalmario1231nah, Yugi also has that "resources" problem with the normal summon. Yeah, you can go really wide with special summons, but at some point your deck is gonna run out of gas. :b
@@Ramox900 Wind-Up, Inzektor, and Dino Rabbit were ravaging the format and Konami decided to hit the plant synchro deck that was long since out of the meta. The summer and fall then gave us Fire Water format(which funnily enough neither were the best deck, turns out it was Dark World).
The way I express myself Is through yes, aesthetic but also through play, sometimes a Yugioh deck will go through radical changes in how it plays, sometimes it's after decades, sometimes it's after a card is banned or someone finds a new card or something that radically alters the game plan in order to stave off being left behind by powercreep, which means if you love the aesthetic of a deck but hate how it plays, it doesn't mean that it'll stay like this forever, which also means you can stop liking how a Deck plays despite liking the aesthetics but then you just pick something else to play
For me it's the question of experience and impact as odd as it sounds. Magic is mostly the card game. Yugioh has started to limit itself. If we look at their card simulator like Magic Arena vs Yugioh Master Duel. Look at their side plays or side options. Magic is mostly play and forget. I have run into more meta focus in that alone even with their Brawl decks... thab the Master Duel Gold teir wonderland. In gold tier you can face Dragon maid, Odd eyes, toons, heroes, evil eyes and more. In magic... you face whichever meta color build in the system. Even Brawl which is based around a 1v1 version of Commander (i enjoy brawl over commander actually)... tends to have you running against the same decks with little variations.
In Magic i usally play Mono Black Devotion (Grey Merchant). I have played other colours but i did like Rakdos, Orzhov, and Mardu colours, Black, white, and red are my favorites in that order. I have speculated on a Rainbow Deck but that would ether be Slithers or "moms creedit card" deck. I have not played Yugioh but i have speculated on a Wight Necromancer (Skul Servent) deck, i used to play lots of Tribal (before Black Devotion) in Magic so i feel Skul Servent might be right. There are some yugioh cards i like and tried to fit in to q Skul Servent deck but it becomes worse the less Skul Servents there are
Well, an issue with Skull Servant is the reliance on having cards wich that name in your graveyard. The original objective was to make a big King of the Skull Servant with the Skull Servants in grave for one big punch.
Aw now I miss Chaotic again. I do like the differences you showed off, where do you think Digimon fits as a nice middle ground of the TCG? They've got tribal stuff and color restrictions like Magic, as well as archetypes and iconic characters like Yu-Gi-Oh.
What I see that most people commenting here get confused about is how the idea of self expression relates to winning, instead of how it relates to having fun. The overall subject of this video is exactly what I'm thinking about lately, and I 100% agree with your points (except for commander, I hate commander, and to me it's basically a different game, so I don't want anything to do with it). I see many people saying that Magic already has what Yu-Gi-Oh has, or at least something similar to it. However, the closest thing to YGO's archetypes I can think of in Magic would be a named faction on one of its many, many plains. This is something that works with sets taking place on that plain, but many plains also only get one set, and we either don't return there for many years at a time or not at all. The other thing I see people saying is that there are general themes in specific color combinations in Magic that basically do the same thing as YGO's archetypes mechanically. That can be true to an extent because it's true that, for example, Red+Blue will almost certainly always be about Instants and Sorceries, or Red+Blue+White would be about Instants and Sorceries, but maybe also Artifacts. However, 2 or 3 color combinations sometimes take different mechanical directions and often have different names, depending on the set/plain, which prevents them from having an actual FLAVOR IDENTITY (which is precisely what YGO's archetypes have). Archetypes in YGO have their own visual language and (and that's crucial) a naming convention that ties cards from the same archetype together. This way, even if the scope of what an archetype does mechanically is expanded, and even if it doesn't get support for a long time, any time cards are added to it, players will get a clear signal that their favourite archetype has received some goodies. They'll know that they're not forgotten and forced to change their identity in order to conform to the meta, and will experience the game growing in their own way. This brings me back to my earlier point about many people thinking of archetypes in relation to winning games instead of in relation to having fun. What I mean by that is that in Magic, players seem to see the 'themes' (the closest term Magic players use to describe what would be an archetype in YGO) as more of a mechanically similar, or synergistic cluster of cards while archetypes in YGO have a more flavorful connection between them (on top of the mechanical one) . Therefore, choosing an archetype in YGO isn't necessarily based on what will help you win the most games, but more on what just feels more like you. And you can count on those archetypes to feel somewhat consistent forever, precisely due to the visual language and naming conventions used for establishing their identity. Themes in Magic work similarly but lack that specificity that helps someone identify strongly with any one of them. They're way more of a subject to interpretation that would vary wildly from player to player. For example, my favourite theme in Magic is Ninjas but a ninja deck I build might have nothing in common with a ninja deck that someone else might build. Yeah, they'd probably both be Blue+Black, but that's it. I've seen 'Ninja' deck lists that only have one or two cards that are, or reference ninjas. They mostly just adhere to the color identity of the theme, but flavorfuly have almost nothing to do with it. To me this isn't as good as YGO's archetypes in terms of self expression. I don't care if I win every game, or even many games, I want to play what feels right to me and clicks with my personality, even if it's not optimal in terms of gameplay. And I can do this in Magic but it just doesn't feel as though any theme has a cohesive identity. It always feels like I'm the one inventing the theme. The question I suppose would never be resolved (because it's a matter of taste), is which option is better. Some would prefer the looseness and interpretative nature of Magic, some would want the more streamlined and specific approach of YGO. (The edits were typos)
Great thoughts here! I agree a lot with what you've said. I left MTG and came back to YGO during the pandemic, and love to play some of the old archetypes I loved as a kid. I recently picked up Ancient Gears in Master Duel and they received new support. I've beaten some strong decks with an archetype from 2005! (I left MTG, mostly because my playgroup split up and no one got into digital MTG. I still have commander decks to play when I visit old friends, but I don't plan on ever giving updating or buying new MTG product.)
I do CPU vs CPU yugioh tournaments on my channel. Not all but many of the characters tend to follow a archetype or theme. For my upcoming video I plan to introduce ancient Egypt characters. Atems guardians each will focus on a different archetype yami yugi had. Kuriboh, dark magician, buster blader, phantom beast, Gaia knights, exodia,
Yugioh and Magic seem to be trying to become more like each other. Magic keeps trying to become faster, making the first turn matter a lot more than it does, while Yugioh is making a leap towards "Hand Traps", which activate from the Hand, having less to do with setting the Traps on the field. Yugioh's deckbuilding is actually not that restrictive, we Yugioh Players just like to complain about it. The Masochist Challenge on Master Duel will show that cards that are terrible in their archetype can work pretty well outside of it... one example is Labyrinth Archfiend, which never actually appears in Labyrinth but is an easily summonable high level monster that can work well in a non-archetypal deck. Archetypes seem more like an attempt to become more like Magic, restricting cards to their own type and attribute in order to weaken them. Old cards like Monster Reborn have been changed into more specific versions of the card to weaken it by tying it to a specific deck type... so Dark Magic Veil for example is a Monster Reborn for Dark Spellcasters (so in this case it is as though the deck you're playing is trying to CHECK that you're actually playing Dark Spellcasters in order to get THIS effect). Certain revival effects became so tied to Archetypes that the ACTUAL Monster Reborn became nearly worthless as it isn't as searchable as "In Archetype Monster Reborn's". Judgement Dragon as a random monster example CHECKS that you are playing Lightsworn by requiring you to have at least 4 in the GY before summoning it... but if you ARE playing Lightsworn then you have a 3000/ATK beater that can wipe the board repeatedly and aids the archetype by milling your own deck at the end of your turn. The card is powerful but it is balanced due to requiring a certain number of other SPECIFIC cards to play. I'm new to Magic but from what I've seen so far: Magic seems too divided by type with certain deck types lacking versatility because of the colour of the card... this usually results in one colour dominating the rest... Blue for example is the strongest colour because of the versatility of the options it gives you... Counter Spell, Copy Spell, Floodgates, discarding, enchanting, etc... a lot of the best cards in the game are Blue. The colour that I personally have seen the most of (besides Blue) is Black... this is typically because Black has a lot of "Yugioh Style" effects (pay Life to do something.... LP doesn't matter, only the last one does.... winning is all about card advantage. This is why Black tends to have a lot of Hand Rip effects, Life-steal, Life-drain, Milling, Target Destruction, etc... Since most Yugioh Decks would fall under the banner of Blue-Black, it makes sense that these colours are the most represented (as I've seen) as they are the fastest colour combination that also provides omni-negates against the opponent in the form of Counterspells and self milling to Revive/Cheat strong creatures out without paying Mana. I know that Red is fast but it seems to be a glass cannon style of fast where it just sacrifices defence for offence... Green seems to only serve as a backup type... I've never seen Mono Green (yet).... it's always used as a backup colour to gain Mana for the main strategy, which is why Green seems to be the weakest colour. I'm sure I'm missing something here, but from what I've gathered, Blue is the strongest and Green is the weakest. Magic has less individual identity to their cards, which is the whole thing with Yugioh "Forming a bond with your cards".... your cards have a sort of personality of their own which is separate from "You The Player"... which adds that extra layer of personlity when you summon Exodia, Dark Magician, Blue-Eyes White Dragon, Aroma Jar, Vampire Lord, Number 39: Utopia.... With Magic it's just a big guy.... with Yugioh it's "Hey, I know that guy, he's pretty cool". You don't get that in Magic outside of cards like Nicol Bolas, The Phyrexian Praetors, Urza, etc.... the older creatures that were MTG original. I think Magic may be trying to patch this up by adopting other franchises with already known characters like Assassins Creed, Lord of The Rings, Fallout, etc... With Yugioh Blue-Eyes White Dragon isn't just a monster, it's a card.... the same card that you see in the Anime.... a kid playing this card can feel like Seto Kaiba when he slams it onto the board.... With Magic Ezio, Aragorn, Sauron, Gandalf, etc are characters that became cards... it's less like you are playing Gandalf and more like you are playing a card that has his picture on it. With Blue-Eyes it feels like THAT SPECIFIC CARD IS Blue-Eyes White Dragon, that SPECIFIC card IS Dark Magician, that SPECIFIC CARD is Snake-Eyes Flamberge Dragon, Aroma Jar, Stardust Dragon, Junk Berserker, etc and it's like you are forming a bond with that card.... if that makes any sense...
Ygo has waifus thats why i keep coming back. And i love when they release stylized archtypes prank kids or mimighoul. However as a brand new mtg commander player. Ygo doesnt hold a drop in the bucket when it comes to deckbuilding and awe of watching ppl come up with different win conditions and synergies. Mtg players are honestly so spoiled in all the deck building resources they have its astonishing
I felt the absolute opposite, for me yu-gi-oh absolutely fails at it's premise that "anyone could do/make anything with their deck, as long as you're doing it right".
so bad news... they were working on a TV show and they had canned it recently. all we know about it is that the voice capture may have been done? But ya that sucks. I feel like both ygo and mtg are not fully exploring their iconic characters and creatures enough in the digital media. Imagine a Moba where blue eyes is a carry or an ARPG where you're playing as some of magics most iconic legendary creatures (this was also cancelled). It's surprising to see that they've not branched out too much.
Magic can absolutely make a show or movie work now. People who aren't as interested in the lore could appreciate the characters playing their own decks in a merge between the game and an actual fight. It would also be interesting watching a show like Yugioh but with MTG.
Can definitely agree on the art aspect making decks feeling “samey”. But, in comparison to Yugioh, both deckbuilding and gameplay is far more enjoyable to me.
Concerning the cards themselves and the lore behind it, I feel like magic has yugioh beat imo. Sure you do have your iconic monsters seen "played" in the manga and anime. But MTG, there are actual narrative depth within the creatures, spells, and the lands themselves. Which helps players in their choice of cards they may play thanks to the what each character brings to the deck. Now one of my goto methodology behind my brews for decks really is jank for jank sake. Finding mechanics and interactions what breaks the game in a long winded manner. Sure it requires all the parts of the machine to function, but coming up with said function and seeing it action really brings me creative fulfillment. So mtg really got me gripped by both of my balls, in the aspect of lore and world building, the other being mechanics and function. I love all the named leganardies and Planeswalkers, and being able to make a duplication engine where i can mass produce them to the point of several dozen planeswalkers being spawnwed cause Wizards didnt expect someone to pull such a stunt in standard just brings me joy in general... Lol
when people talk about lore cards in yugioh it has nothing to do with the anime actually instead we refer to certain cards and archetype that altogether is of a shared lore whose story is told in fragments over the years entirely through the card’s name, art and effects and only after does konami releases small snippets of the actual lore to confirm or rectify the playerbase’s interpretation of it there are multiple different storyline separate from one another each drawing inspiration from various myth, legend and religions such as - abyss/albaz lore which directly takes from william blake’s personal mythos combined with the welsh legend of the red dragon and the white dragon where the red dragon the symbol of wales won over the invading white dragon but the protagonist of this story is an amnesiac draconic human who represent the white dragon - the visas or broken world lore which is essentially a reimagining of the hindu god vishinu as he journey through various world meeting his avatars as different dimensional counterparts representing his lost emotions unaware hes stuck in an eternal time loop orchestrated by a higher observer only known as veda upanishad - the world legacy storyline which is essentially a jrpg epic with some biblical and mesopotamian references telling the story of 3 childhood friends venturing out from their small village to uncover the secrets of the world only to get way more then they bargain for in both shocking revelation and tragedies the anime cards in comparison has little to no lore behind them beyond simply being used by the characters they represent as personality powers reconceptualized as entities in a card game and using them in real life is more in line with LARPing instead
So it seems like it's closer to piecing together the lore like the souls games, through tidbits of item description and dialogue. Weaving a tapestry of lore of each card and their faction through our the years
@@tasogarerubica yes though its not as far out there as most of the time its pretty apparent what is happening and that again konami do actually release the lore in lore books called master guide but the narration is simply just summaries and explanation of events rahter then anything detailed or actual storytelling for example in the world legacy storyline in the art of the card [world legacy heart] it shows lee a fairy presenting ib 1 of the 3 main characters of the world legacy storyline 1 of the world legacy relics, the chalice -> the art of [world legacy's secret] mirrors this cept the chalice is blackened, lee has a sinister aura around her and an evil smile -> [nightmare corrupter iblee] has its name a combination of ib and lee and shows ib with her clothes blackened, black splattered shadows on her skin and a hedonistic smile -> [world legacy awakens] shows what seems to be ib's soul partially out of her body -> [world legacy struggle] shows ib's soul manipulating the hands of her body to stab herself with a sword while her body seem to resist as if someone else was controlling it as auram the protagonist of the world legacy storyline in the background watches in horror -> [world legacy's sorrow] portrays auram cradling ib's body as ningirsu, ib's older brother standing behind at a distance in silence its pretty obvious what happened some others is more vague like in the albaz lore [swordsoul of mo ye] of the swordsoul archetype depicts a literally black skin humanoid swordwomen in asian-esque draconic robes with a very unique sword, the same sword that swordsoul longyuan is wielding in the art of [icejade erosion] leaving people to wonder what happened to mo ye as she never showed up in any other albaz lore card considering within the lore its confirmed that longyuan did indeed betrayed the swordsouls and went on an icejade genocide fest but people have noticed that the icy isopod creature that is the card [icejade creation aegirocassis] there is a small figure at its center that resembles mo ye a bit, its a bit of a stretch but people theorized langyuan either killed or gravely wounded her with her body now used by icejade aegirine to create aegirocassis and it took until konami actually revealing the lore that yes this is in fact mo ye currently or rather what has become of her corpse being used in the creation of aegirocassis a combat support unit for aegirine to take revenge on longyuan for the slaughtering of her race as depicted on [icejade manifestation] showing the start of their battle
i think YGO and MTG tickle different parts of our brains. these days i prefer Magic because there are significantly more formats (EDH, Pauper, Drafts, etc) that are very accessible to me. and while i love GOAT and Edison formats, i find most venues/players only really care about Advanced...
I think the large variety of officially supported formats is one of Magic's largest strengths, and one people don't mention enough. It's so nice that whenever one format is broken or stale, you can just try another and have a whole new meta game and card pool.
Magic should be more free and less archetype driven. It stays true to the roots of the games ludonarrative better. Magic is like D&D in that a Dimir Wizard will always be a Dimir Wizard, just as a D&D cleric will always play like a D&D cleric. Whether it's Ashiok or Lazav, or the cleric worships Lolth or Lathander. There will be small differences and room for you to make it your own thing but the bones of the play will be the same now as it was 10 years ago or 10 years from now. If you know you like the playstyle of a cleric or Dimir, you don't have to be locked in to the exact same character or the exact same archetype to continue enjoying the play. It's a different approach to Yugioh and comes from a different landscape of game design, not a better one just an irrevocably seperate one. Garfield was an RPG nerd and though Magic is not an RPG, that element of customization is still rooted in the games heart. And considering how many times the Magic community has rejected attemps by R&D to 'Marvelize' the game as many grognards would complain, I don't think that should or ever will change. Commander is as close as we have ever gotten to archetypes and as that format has aged, the color pie philosophy has held strong as archetypes have diluted into an ever growing pool of interchangeable Legendaries.
YGO no longer creates new archetypes, people mostly like old iconic archetypes like dark world/black wings/heroes. As Konami continues to come up with new themes in the latest sets but still needs to sell and create new cards this leads to an endless flow of dead archetypes that will never be explored or supported again in a meaningful way. You simply have no time or space to support all these archetypes but the money is in the archetypes AND you have no resource system and insane power creep.The cycle of "oh we get new X support" stretches further and further, so you actually wait longer and longer for new support of YOUR deck. The rest of the game is seeing what's Tier 1 or Tier 2 and having the "freedom" or more like an illusion of that. IMO YGO has neither freedom nor self-expression and if you look at Magic I'd say it just depends on the format. Commander certainly checks both of these points.
Yugioh has the benefit of being high production value media to accompany the cards and Konami would be foolish to not leverage that. Magic's never had anything close, so WotC puts lore in the background. WotC tried for so long to make Magic a multi-media franchise because they know how strong a draw recognizable characters are. The entire LoTR set was basically "remember this person/place/event?" It would be nice to hace an MtG equivalent of Yugioh's anime or manga, but don't take Yugioh's multi-media success for granted. Konami's tried replicating it, but DM-era Yugioh was lighting in a bottle.
You've hit the nail in the head when it comes to Yu-Gi-Oh!'s appeal. The archetypes are so varied and out there that you're almost guaranteed to a pick a deck that perfectly reflects your particular interests. Do you like western cartoons? Play Toons. Do you like fighting games? Play Vanquish Souls. Are you a fan of Toku? Kaijus and DANGER! are perfect for you. Even people that are fans of stuff like FNAF and Star Wars get represented with Frightfurs and Kozmo respectively. And if you have a particular attachment to a certain character in the anime, just run their deck. Meanwhile Magic has always gave the impression of being shackled by its "house style". They've been trying to branch out with Unsets and crossovers, but I feel like that only really enforces the issue. You can't just have American superheroes or cartoon parodies or space themed amusement parks existing in the same generic fantasy setting Magic has. Those fun concepts need to be pushed into their own little corner lest they risk alienating the audience.
I think you are incorrect about Magic being stuck to it's "House Style". The whole concept of Planeswalking, a core concept in the base of Magic's lore, lets them do whatever type of archetypes they can think of. Sure there are a lot of classic fantasy types, but you have things like the Phyrexians, a magical bio-tech war machine of an archetype, to the Plane of Kamigawa, which went from magical Edo-Period Japan to a almost Cyber Punk Neon Dynasty in the last visit to that plane. You have the eldritch horrors of the Eldrazi to the american wild west outlaws of Thunder Junction. Hell, the latest set, Bloomborrow, has you playing as small talking animals (with specific archetypes such as Lizards, Bats, Rats, Mice, Otters and others that each are focused on a 2 color pairing and each have a particular unique playstyle). Magic has many, many different archetypes and continues to expand on them.
I like them both and they both have their pros and cons. The one thing that magic does that Yu-Gi-Oh should do is support multiple formats. If Konami did that Yu-Gi-Ohs player base will be much bigger but at least Yu-Gi-Oh doesn't have infinite combos since most cards are once per turn.
Im just not seeing it, personally. It's cool that you can pick your favorite archetype to represent yourself, but the actual expression in deckbuilding is so extremely limited that its pretty hard to say its a more creative game. And, magic also has a pretty wide array of different archetypes beyond just aggro, control, midrange. You have enchantress, aristocrats, reanimator, landfall, lifegain, burn, tokens, mill, self mill, equipments, and a whole ton of different tribal types, etc. Plus commander exists, which is just the same argument for yugioh but with less deckbuilding restrictions. The yugioh anime do be pretty good, though.
To be honest yugioh is not so great as it looks, 1/3 of all decks are the same cards and a Duell goes most of the time 3 rounds. It is really boring if you don’t play Meta and that sucks hard. For a magic show maybe a guy got in the world of magic as plainswalker and have to find his way back with his magic cards but he summons them from his memory like spells because that’s what the cards actually are or in real. I can’t see a magic Serie where they actually play the game tbh.
I believe yugioh may have the most freedom and self expression of all card games. Just by watching a couple episodes of mbt's dueltaining seriess you begin to see how many wacky things you can do in the game. If we're talking about both freedom and self expression, look at the combo where someone reenacted the failed tr*mp ass*ssination attempt (censoring because idk if youtube blocks those words)
I've just watched a video where someone combod off destroying two duel towers field spells with dracossack (an airplane) to make a 9/11 joke in master duel
Note, Magic the Gathering does have secondary media. Magic has novels and short stories, and you won't find a player more dedicated to a card than one that grew up reading the stories about that character. Like people have legit opinions on characters like Urza.
Magic definitely DOES have secondary media, but I feel like you have to go looking for it. Whereas Yugioh is shoving their other stuff in your face to expose you to it
@OOMTG part of it is age. Back when MTG really put a lot of resources into secondary media, it was when TCGs were more niche and thus fewer eyes to grab in general. Second factor is that for the big three TCGs, MTG is the only one that is first and foremost a TCG while Yu-Gi-Oh started as a monster of the week Shonen battle manga and Pokémon was a video game. To those games, the card game is the secondary media, while MTG lives and dies off its game.
I could never get into MTG, partly because I very much dislike how it plays, but also because the artstyle is so boring imo. There is an aesthetic for everyone in Yugioh, Lovecraftian Horrors, we got ya, anime waifus, we got ya, anthropomorphic kitchen supplies, yep!
I feel like more sinergy is not the way for magic at all. The meta is already too fast paced and sinergy normally creates speed. I think magic is a more "sober" game than Yu-Gi-Oh and I don't think it should be changed. They are fundamentally different games with different core concepts and ideas. If anything I feel like magic is getting to close to Yu-Gi-Oh with all of the casting stuff for free effects
i'm not really looking for more synergy exactly. I was looking for ways to make magic's cards more engaging and to allow them to show off the player's personality. The example of archetypes from yugioh is just how they do that. I agree that they are and SHOULD both remain separate and unique games
@@OOMTG I feel like the personality still shines through in the colors, playstyles and card choices in the deck. Maybe not as clear as in Yu-Gi-Oh but it's still noticeable in the undertones.
WDYM, there is a TON of synergies in MTG Right now, I'm using (in standard), a deck around sacrifice synergies, with Urabrask's forge creating tokens I can sacrifice to get bonuses from Scavenger's talent, potentially get an extra draw with Braids, and eventually resurrect big creatures from the GY. There's plenty of possibilities for building a deck around this theme. RDW right now has every card having some form of synergy from being targeted with pump spells. Rabbits just boost each others like the soldier decks of old. Honestly, outside of decks like Golgari or monoblack midrange which are more about having strong solo cards you can put down every turn, all the playable decks are very synergistic. But it takes a slightly different form than in YGO. A "Waifu Girl" card in YGO will typically only allow you to search or interact with other "Waifu Girl" cards. A lot of this segmenting of card search in YGO is rather artificial. Necessary due to terrible design decisions dating back to the start of the game, but artificial nonetheless. And your archetype will often signpost very obviously in what it's trying to have you do. Tha In contrast, MTG cards tend to have simpler, less restrictive effects that really can shine if you take the time to find smart ways to use them. You'll find cards that synergize with very broad mechanics of the game (eg, sacrificing your stuff, effects dealing with any counter, any triggered abilities, or that allow you to paste abilities from one card to another, or copying spells...). It is supported by a robust comprehensive rules system next to which YGO rulings look absolutely amateurish. Because of this, it's reasonably easy to find ways to do absolutely crazy things in MTG, such as getting infinite boards, drawing your whole deck, growing a creature to absurd power, or going for a weird alternate win condition. There's a lot of complex, heavily synergistic decks that absolutely can go toe to toe with the best decks in MTG, though of course they tend to be more complex to play and therefore less popular than the old RDW. But you also have to remember that in MTG cards have cost, that naturally give a pace to the game, unlike in YGO where you do your whole thing in one uninterrupted turn. I think one of the misunderstandings people have with MTG is that it is a game where, unlike in YGO where the complexity floor is very high, you can find viable decks at basically any level of complexity you want to engage with. And people will naturally gravitate towards the simplest options, but that doesn't mean that very expressive, complex, and unique decks don't exist.
I wouldn’t say boring but the medieval fantasy aesthetic never really did anything for me. I know a lot magic player hate the lore breaking expansions but the Fallout one is certainly interesting to me and gives some variety
I would agree that tribal can be a lot like archetypes, depending on the tribal. I mean, I play tribal Treefolk in both modern and EDH. There is so much synergy in tribal Treefolk, especially from the Lwyorn and Shadowmere block.
Tribe specific cards also allow for such interesting and powerful design by limiting their scope. It allows for a really cool push and pull in game design
Commander I run into is mostly field nukes and expensive decks trying to ramp as quickly as possible to end games by turn four. That is less expression and more speed running.
All YGO decks play the same strategy (spam "special" summons, get Ur boss monster from Main or Extra Deck, if First Set up the negations, if second destroy the board then set up Ur negations), and The Devs Even Have it Pre-Made for the players (archetypes), its the player just don't know/admit it.... The true genius are the YGO devs, successfully making their players Feel Smart despite of the "freedom" you claim, when in fact is Super Linear and homogenus...
There is plenty of variety if you want to look for it. Nemlaria, Dinomorphia, sky strikers, eldlich, etc etc. They aren't the strongest decks, bit if you're not trying to play hyper competitive then theres a ton of unique options
My problem with Magic honestly isn’t even the freedom or self expression, it’s obvious that the game has that in droves, Yugioh does as well, hell, Kaiju-Owner’s seal is semi-playable right now. But it’s the resource system, it’s incredibly hard for me to get around cards just being bricks until you pay x amount of funny points so you can play the game. Not to say Yugioh doesn’t have archetypes that have similar mechanics, like six sams and their bushido counters, but it’s contained in those archetypes. In magic you can just draw a completely unusable hand a majority of the time because you either got all your creatures but no lands or a bunch of lands with nothing to use them on. Got gifted a starter deck by a friend who loves the game and I didn’t have the heart to tell him that I didn’t have an ounce of fun.
this is something that doesnt get said enough, ive seen far too many mtg players with the mindset that everything needs to have some inherent resource system to play that they view anything without it with disdain or incomprehensible in general tcg arent actually that big a thing in the overall pop culture scene and outsiders who want to just take a dip into a tcg just to see what its about just simply dnt like the idea that right out of the gate their gameplay is dictated and restricted
@@YukiFubuki.But yugioh have your own resource system, Life, cards and 1 normal summon per turn, thats no problem in different resources systems, i honestly prefer ygo resource system then lands in magic, but the problem in modern ygo is that konami broke their resource system so many times and keep doing it. Magic have a few cards that "broke" the mana system too, like free spells, spells that trade life for mana or Life for cards, but i feel in magic they care more about the healthy of the game, konami just broke the game intencionally to sell the New stupid and broken cards, again and again...
@@lucasvettorato7087 yea but there is a huge difference between something where a the resources is a stipulation of anything and everything and something where the resource is hard coded into the architecture itself
@@YukiFubuki. The problem with ygo resources are konami card designers, 1 normal summon and cards in hand are the most valuable resources in the game, but they make no sense if all The cards you play get you a +1 or more cards, and all The monster can special summon. For that reason i agree with modern ygo makes no sense anymore, but its not a problem with the rules of the game, its card design, if wizards prints a New stronger black lotus every year, magic would be a broken game too.
@@lucasvettorato7087 these things always existed since even caveman yugioh, the difference is that their availability and usability has been elevated like back then there was no stopping you from using graceful charity and/or pot of greed to draw and discard 3 blue eyes into the grave just to revive it with the 3 monster reborn you just drew on your first turn outside of the probability of it but this is besides the point, my comment is to point that the average joe isnt gonna look into a tcg for the first time and automatically perceived a inherent resource system as some holy grail that ive see way too many mtg players desperately portray it as as most of the time they will just see it as a restriction on fun instead its like going into a fast food restaurant to be given an extremely limited menu and then told more of it will be unlocked after certain purchase milestones, the only customers that stick aorund will only be those who knows exactly what theyre getting while everyone else will just go to a different fast food chain instead because again tcg in general arent actually that popular a thing in the whole pop culture scene
Minimum deck size = ??? Maximize hand size = ?? Starting life total = ? Range of influence = ??? Number of player = ?? Number of teammate = ? Number of winner = ??? Restricted = ?? Banned = ? PLAYER VS PLAYER. PLAYER VS TEAM. TEAM VS TEAM. Choose two ●Ante. ●Trade. ●Forbid ante. ●Forbid trade. ●Continue ante. ●Before trade. ●Keep ante. ●Between trade. ●Food ante. ●Public trade. DUEL = one game. SET = three game. MATCH = six game. Choose one ●Single elimination. ●Double elimination. ●Triple elimination. ●Single round robin. ●Double round robin. ●Triple round robin. ●Swiss. ●Dutch. ●Monrad. TYPE 1= all set. TYPE 2= one expansion set/two expansion set/one block/one core set/one core set and one expansion set/one core set and two expansion set/one core set and three expansion set/one core set and four expansion set/one core set and one block/one core set, one expansion set and one block/one core set, two expansion set and one block/one core set and two block/two core set and one block/two core set, one expansion set and one block/two core set, two expansion set and one block/two core set, three expansion set and one block/two core set and two block. TYPE 3= all common/all uncommon/all rare/all mythic. TYPE 4= all white border/all black border/all silver border/all gold border. Choose how many ●Sideboard deck option. ●Mulligan hand option. ●March creature option. ●Burrow mana option. ●Attack left option. ●Attack right option. ●Attack both option. ●Attack single option. ●Attack multiple option. ●Attack across option. ●Shuffling deck option. ●Cutting deck option. ●Trait adjustment option. ●Equal footing option. ●Time out option. ●Final round option. ●Recurring card option. ●Thinning card option. ●Head start option. ●Come back option. ●Sealed pool option. ●Friend brew option.
Something I would like to add with YuGiOh is that, contrary to what some people think, Archetypes don't actually restrict Deck building. YuGiOh is a game with no inherent restriction of what you put in your Deck, unlike something like One Piece for example, were you can only play cards of your Leader's color, or Magic, were you need mana of specific colors. Instead, all of the restriction on YuGiOh comes from the cards effects themselves, and most of time these only affect your plays after using said card and only for the turn it was used. That means:
1. You can construct your Deck in a way were you can avoid and/or play around these locks
2. You can play in a way to mitigate this locks
3. You can still use cards that are usually out of access due to this locks, to play on corner cases your Deck usually can't deal with (this is also thanks to the existence of the Extra Deck most of the times)
4. The developers can design cards and archetypes with different types of locks and different degrees of restrictions
This is how we get Decks that combine different archetypes, like any of the thousands of Runick versions, Decks that are pile of little synergies that have something in common, like the different Type based Decks (Zombies and Dinos for example) and Decks that are absolutes abominations made to do the most nonesensical combo you have ever seen for the most shitpost pay off you can think off, like anyone subscribed to Luke von Karma can testify.
Is thanks to things like this that you can pretty regulary in places like reddit old players saying that archetypes ruined the game, and at the same exact time new-ish players saying that Pile Decks and cards with no archetype restrictions ruined it lol
I think that Archetypes and mana color are more similar, really. Neither are a hard limitation. You may play every color of card you want in your deck in magic, you just need to build to be able to pay the required mana. A 5 color deck is totally possible, you just need to make added concessions to your mana base to make it work smoothly. Magic already has enough tools in most formats to easily accommodate playing 2 or even 3 colors with such smoothness that it is hardly a consistency drop from 1 color. The only format that hard locks you into playing your colors is Commander, which has added rules around that.
Both also serve to help silo away effects from different groups. Archetypes keep a searcher from being universal and just grabbing anything you want, or from a broken boss from being formed from just anything lying around (though plenty have such low restrictions that they are generic anyways). Magic colors do the same. You really don't want a deck that can, with the same two lands up, be representing both a powerful burn spell to go face/kill something, and counterspell. At least not unless they paid the price of getting out multicolor lands. Without colors giving some limitations on what can come out when, magic would be a hell of like roided out spell control/burn piles probably.
Yes lukevonkarmas community is an excellent example of freedom of deckbuilding
Also the Extra Deck contributes to it. You play something like the new Rank 4 focused Ryzeal and outside of the 2 Ryzeal Xyz monsters your Extra Deck is basically whatever you feel like is good in the deck. Or if you play a Synchro deck that goes into 8s you can fill spots with generic good monsters like Psyframelord Omega or Draco Berserker. Ever since the game has stopped focusing on the anime most archetypes have gotten progressively smaller which does have its own set of issues but it also means that there's more room for players to make decisions on what they do with limited deck space.
Also even within an archetype you can play it in an entirely different way than other people based on tech cards. Sky Striker was originally a grindy control deck, but as power creep made it too slow to compete it was able to tech in floodgates and play more like a stun deck, and with some of the new support now it has a build that can be more aggressive and push as an OTK deck, and not a lot of the deck's core has needed changing between these variants.
Most of the good cards nowadays don't have any restrictions, so we're free to just jam them all together until they get banned.
It's like we're playing Goat format all over again.
"thousands of Runick versions"
Translation: Thousands of mill slop decks.
Fundamentally I find Yugioh more fun (both old and modern) over Magic. The ability to just play your cards freely provides a much more dynamic game to me. All the cards in my hand (sans bricks) are live, whereas in Magic your play lines and choices to interact with the opponent are limited by mana.
However Konami has done a poor job of balancing the metagame throughout its entire history in comparison to pretty much every other game out there. So many formats are so close to being great but there’s almost always a few problem cards and an overpowered deck that does something unfair to leave a sour taste in people’s mouth. Now if you can play in a more casual setting and omit those cards, yugioh is an absolute blast. Or conversely at the very highest levels of competitive play, embracing the meta and trying to problem solve the format is also what makes it fantastic.
I feel like I understand where your coming from, but as someone who spent 20 years with yugioh to now come to magic, the difference is no longer the self expression. My favorite deck in yugioh is and always will be dragon maid, because that was just what spoke with me and nothing new really has. Then you go into a casual game,and all you find are people playing meta or quitting 2 turns in because they didnt combo off. When i moved to magic, i found the color system daunting and limiting, until i realized how important it was in keeping the game paced, focused, and controlled. If i go up against a mono red deck, i can guess what my opponents trying to do and start my game around that, but the second more colors get involved, i have to quickly figure out what theyre building towards. Self expression fails if it doesnt have the fun behind it to allow a player to trully feel like its paying them back for their love. Old yugioh was better than magic, but it failed in the last 5-10 years with its exponential power creep.
I totally get it tbh. I avoid playing competitively or meta if I can and my play group for yugioh is pretty chill and fun centric. No one is playing Kash or snake eyes and all that so we can really lean into the fun factor
@@OOMTG I mean at that point it's the whole commander debate. Most people are going into card games nowadays through the free games that exist, magic arena or online, vs yugioh master duel. Arena, as long as you stay casual, IS casual, it's people playing for fun and trying to do something funny (except nadu), where as master duel was almost always playing meta in casual, but not at the super sweaty level. Idk it's just sour to see the thing I've loved since I was 4 years old turn out this way
I did not belive there was Dragon maids so i looked it up, i know little about Yugioh, i watched the GX Anime, i'm a magic player and the Yugioh deck i have been eyeing up the most is Skul Servent
@@soulhelper7027 idk, man seems weird if your local have that type mentality, unless you played online now that a different story, also if do so you played local with that mentality player inside it I suggest change to other locals.
From my experience it is super rare that people scoop early or bring sweaty decks to locals, yes there's one other local that I sometimes go to have a super sweaty environment.
Most of the time, people who play at local actually just play pet deck all the time, and just for hangout or meet new people.
@@vo1ce147 except I'm talking in totality, most people aren't playing locals, they're playing online, because of accessibility and cost efficiency
I think it’s curious that you say that Yugioh has more space for individual expression when the constant archetype powercreep is something that has always felt so stifling to me and kept me from the game. If my favourite archetype falls behind in strength but all the new strong ones don’t resonate with me then what am I left with?
Magic has always felt like a limitless space for self expression. You may say that all of the colors play the same across sets and have no “archetype” identity but that feels inherently wrong when each set (whether new or a return to an older plane) brings with it a whole new flavor to the mechanics. Like how many games of Yugioh can you win with alternate win conditions? Or really niche but interesting deck concepts like lantern control?
Yugioh has definitely better marketing to bring players into the game, I’ll admit. Magic has always felt like it was really daunting and scary to approach but in reality it’s so free to explore and has plenty of formats for anyone of any experience level.
I definitely understand where you're coming from with a lot of this.
I think I just lowkey accept that on some level power creep will happen with any tcg so moving to a new deck is something I expect to happen - BUT it definitely sucks if you're in a spot where nothing new calls to you.
As for the new mechanics with each set bringing diversity that can be kind of hit or miss. When each color has their own theme in a new set that can be awesome. Bloomburrow for example, 10/10. But plenty of sets can feel kind of homogenous when that isn't the focus.
And with win cons, I tend to seek out really unique decks in yugioh specifically that don't so much win their own way, but PLAY their own way.
Nemlaria for example is one I fell in love with. The mini game of managing and banishing your extra deck rather than focusing on board development was SUPER interesting to me. Same with darkworld, dinomorphia, sky-striker, etc.
Either way I hope you at least enjoyed the video and that your upcoming weekend is a good one!
I think not only does gameplay affect player expression but also the aesthetic and art of your cards also allow you to express yourself. It mignt sound cringe but unironically I beleive "screw your zodiac sign tell me what your favorite yugioh archetype is" because of the wide range in aesthetics that yugioh is allowed to go for and how specific they can be. What books, movies, games, history, or concepts do you enjoy? Theres probably an archetype for that or there'll be something that you can connect withm demon-gun wielding cowboys, sushi battleships, bear gundams, Romance of the Three Kingdoms. And there is a lot of fun gameplay niches that yugioh has no other decks can play. Vaylantz is pendulum deck based off tabletop board games so you have to move your figures from the spell and trap zone up into the monster zone to get them into play and then you can move them around your board for different effects. The Springans are soot and ash like beings whi insert themselves into missles like robot bodies and they play by firing themselves off from their main battleship into the opponents board to destroy cards in a AoE pattern and then they can load themselves back onto the ship to fire again. My favorite deck is the Generaiders who are a deck based on if the 9 norse realms were represented as video game boss monsters so their field spell is a "Boss Stage" and it triggers when your opponent draws aka "stepping into the boss stage" which then lets you summon one of the boss monsters from the deck and then fill your board with minion tokens to use the effects of your boss monsters. Theres a plethora of fun playstyles if you look for them.
I will admit balance is definitely a big problem. Like you said sometimes your favorite deck is just not able to surivive much less thrive in the modern meta landscape. And while I do think there is something to be said about perfomring well with rogue decks especially if you find something in yugiohs 10000+ card pool that can help you win with your pet deck its a pretty good feeling. I'll also say Konami recently has been on the ball when it comes to legacy support and since the power level of a yugioh card can be so high you really only need one wave of support to bring your deck back into the playable area. For instance just yesterday konami released support for Jurrac which was a bad archetype when it released and in modern day I would say the decks effects are so bad they're all practically vanilla. But with the recent support konami have made it viable reliant on pretty making the archetype "what if the meteor that killed the dinosaurs was a dinosaur and was constantly crashing into the board blowing it up and you benefit off your dinosaurs being blown up. Yugioh archetypes just scratch that itch that mtg just doesn't but magic scratches a completely different itch for me so im glad how different the two games are and that I can appreciate them both
Also, play Infernoble without Isolde it’s fun you can summon Great Shogun Shien with the worst card you’ve seen in your life all while you’re summoning french anime boys it’s peak
As someone who has started with Yugioh and got into magic as well, both games have their pros and cons. I love the crazy high power level and speed of yugioh, my favorite deck of all time is an anime based archetype with a card Junk Speeder that provides so much card advantage that if not answered basically wins the game on the spot. I also love the draft formats of magic and the grindy and slow games magic can provide. I feel that people should not pit the games against each other because they both provide very different experiences
Oh for sure! I hope this didn't come across as hating either game or saying either is strictly better. Both are fantastic, I just want more ways to CONNECT with magic and used yugioh as an example of how
@@OOMTG Your video is great, it didn’t come across as you hating either game. I was just saying that the general discourse that tends to happen when talking about MTG and Yugioh from people who haven’t played both is always trying to “prove” which one is better
I play both Magic and Yugioh. Magic is fun for me for a while but I quickly lose interest in the resource management department.
I feel like I want to see and play my favorite cards but I hate that I have to gather resources to play them.
The fast paced play style of yugioh is where I thrive. I have a boss monster either in my ED or main deck and 15 cards out of the 40 cards in my deck will access that monster. I don't need a mulligan because more often than not I'm going to combo off even if my opponent has a response.
The boring part of Magic is the first 5 or so turns for me then it can be really fun. I play mostly control decks in Magic and building up to start controlling the board is boring but once I'm there I'm having a great time.
The boring part of yugioh is late game plays as the beginning is fast and explosive. In yugioh I center more towards combo over control.
The archetypes are 100% what kept me playing yugioh over Magic in the end. I can play big friggen birds with guns (Raidraptors) that's as American as Apple pie and baseball. Sky Strikers, 1 (or possibly multiple now) girl that changes her mech suit to meet any challenge thrown her way. 2 Vtuber girls that moonlight as world class thieves (Live Twin Evil Twins).
The archetypes are amazing, their stories get told over the card art in more of a show don't tell fashion as MTG is told over flavor text which just doesn't resonate with me as well.
And don't even get me started on dual archetype decks. Magic might have dual to multi color decks but you can grab 2, hell, sometimes 3 or 4 fun decks in yugioh and smash them together to make an even better deck.
Live Twins are cool and all but what happens when they break into a place and steal a cursed object that unleashes the Unchained Twins?
Live Twin Unchained is probably my second favorite deck of all time and it's amazing. Both Live Twin and Unchained are pretty okay decks but when together are a whole different beast.
Thanks for coming to my TedTalk.
As an ex ygo player, magic has given me the freedom to express myself more than ygo ever will or has. No matter what i make in magic it will always keep up or even demolish. In ygo its so dishearting to see how outclassed all my favorite archetypes are by whatever new thing comes out
You can play casually w your favorite archetypes and a lot of times old archetypes get new support that brings them to the competitive scene, like for example right now a lot of duel terminal decks are getting new stuff. Decks like dark magician, heroes, blue eyes, phatom knights, Odd Eyes, and other decks from the anime that i’m not gonna mention for the sake of not writing an essay get consistent support to always keep them relevant in the casual scene. Is not as bad as you think over here.
@@hexi9595 I played ygo for over ten years I just don't agree man. Its just so disheartening losing because i lost the coin toss and now I'm facing down a 7 negate board while I only have 6 cards in my hand like I literally don't have enough cards to even play the game.
What archetypes did you like? I’m curious. Obviously, you can’t face down FS SE with Blue Eyes, but there are so many playable archetypes. On MD, I was making Deskbot Vernusylph work.
@@frosticle6409 I played infernity, D/D/D, Monarchs, Blue Eyes Chaos Max, Kaiju Trains, Predaplants, and Fur Hire. And I like to play in person playing card games behind a screen isn't fun for me
I've never broken down what I've played in Magic as just colors. Especially with Commander, there's a ton of freedom when putting cards like Squirrels, Ninjas, and mechs (vehicles). I mostly come from playing Yu-Gi-Oh! first so I have the mentality of making "archetypes" or "this is the theme/gimmick" in Magic for fun. My favorite decks to use is a WUBRG deck that focuses on playing Nicol Bolas Dragon God, a Werewolf Deck due to the transforming mechanic, and Slivers cause they are a mix of Jurassic Park and Aliens.
Both games have their variety. The issue with Yu-Gi-Oh! is that is often feels like you're being force into dropping older cards/decks for the new stuff due to how dramatic power creep is in the game compared to others, likely cause they have a resources system while Yu-Gi-Oh! technically does not (any more).
The more varied art style of Yugioh can make the game feel more appealing and varried even from just a visual standpoint. Magic is definitely a great game with crazy amounts of customization, but a lot of its art, while beautiful, can feel a bit "samey" outside of alternative arts. I really like both games, but Yugiohs visuals stand out a lot more.
It's never too late. the problem comes down to producers and rich money bags not understanding nor caring about the original MTG Lore, and those modern writers and creatives who want to use MTG's Lore as a vehicle to push some sort of agenda, or checklist of corporate and political talking points. What we really need is someone obessed with the batshit crazy lore of Early magic and start from there... Urza's descent into madness as he tries to save the multiverse, while he's brilliant and right 90% of the time, his hubris is his pride and ultimately the undoing of a great many plan he had set in motion. It's an awesome tale which touches all sorts of characters from that time. Taysir of Rabia, Freyalise, Daria, Kristina of the Woods, Commodore Guff, Barrin, Teferi, Jhoira, Xantcha, Karn...
As a native Yugioh player migrated to Magic id say its just wrong to say Magic doesn't have archetypes that work with each other. Theres an insane amount of synergistic archetypes that work together in Magic you have Merfolk, Eldrazi, Goblins, phyrexians, investigators, Angels, Demons, Humans,Kor the ten guildpacks, the ten 3color tribes of Tarkir, then theres new ones like the plant people and all the animals from bloomburrow. Also Magic also has Icons, but its more with the either their archetypes like Merfolk or color tribe.
I'm not saying Magix doesn't have archetypes. I'm saying 1. Those archetypes are much looser, and 2. It those archetypes are less effective I'm allowing players to demonstrate their own personality
There was actually was a cancelled Netflix Magic: The Gathering animated series that was fully scripted and voiced but never got animated. It was cancelled in 2020 and it makes me sad.
Magic the Gathering is the absolute KING of dropping the ball when it comes to having an expanded universe. Trying to get involved in MTG via the video games, any kind of TV show or the scant amount of written material available is frustrating. Even Cardfight Vanguard has an anime and it has far fewer players.
I really don't feel like there is a lot of self expression in Yugioh in terms of gameplay, almost every archetype does the same thing, you normal summon, which searches something you can special summon, summon that, Link or XYZ with them, get another search, etc. until you have a board state that prevents your opponent from playing the game.
Half of every deck is still overrun with staple must have cards just like back in the day too, you always need as many copies as possible of Ash, Crossout, Called By, Imperm, etc.
I've seen far more variety in how decks play in Magic than I ever have in Yugioh. The only perk Yugioh has with self expression is the card art which is much better than Magic's.
From somone who plays both. I'd say MTG is not as deverse as we make it out to be. No matter how "Unique" you thonk your deck is. You are still retrsicted by the color pie and mana curve. Magic may just drop a new mechanic in the game after each set but most of those mechanics don't really change that much.
@@MrMarvelMike The color pie isn't that much of a restriction since every color has access to just about everything from every other color nowadays, and the mana curve isn't restrictive at all when there are a million ways to ramp or cheat things out.
Magic has a manga. It's called "Destroy all humanity, they can't be regenerated" in reference to Wrath of God.
Also many classic mtg creatures appeared in comics (because those are nerds) or pin up art (atog was chewing on a girl's dress.
Magic has the superior gameplay, in where it forces games to start slow and gently ramp up, where choices have to be made each turn. Yu-Gi-Oh! is more often than not over in three or four turns. On the other hand, I think Yu-Gi-Oh! has better "theming" with their archetypes. Because if you stick with one or two complementary archetypes and maybe a few generics, then it feels more like you are commanding a team that is your faction. Magic has sets that are themed, but to build a decent deck you almost HAVE to mix it thoroughly.
Of course both games run into the problem that the "meta" often resolves itself around one or two decks, with minor variances at best. Frankly, I'd advocate for a format where you ban exactly the archetypes that are that overplayed in your current meta, and allow practically everything else. By secondary format I mean like commander etc. Not an official game for the crown, but just for fun where players can make decks that they actually enjoy playing with the archetypes or creatures they favor, without fear of that one game-breaking deck crushing it.
For Yu-Gi-Oh being too fast I can get but sometimes the game feels slower and more interactive when you get to the grind game when all your resources are spent and you have to figure out the correct play to beat your opponent
That unfortunately doesn't happen with the current meta
I have a lot of respect for a synergistic archetypes in card games for sure. And I think the biggest and most important part about it is the fact that they offer payoffs for you executing combinations with cards which otherwise could be qualified as innocuous outside of their name. There is something really cool about putting pieces together and then watching those pieces which have different things in common pay off a cool win condition. I think that's why I like Commander so much in Magic because it is literally for the most part combining an archetype from cards that would otherwise have nothing to do with each other outside of their creature type or a type of ability that they have in common.
But I am a bigger fan of when those archetypes come together naturally and not because the developers put them together. For me. That is one difference between Yu-Gi-Oh and Magic that I enjoy more in Magic. It feels like in Yu-Gi-Oh when there is an archetype it is designed to do a specific thing, whereas in Magic at least in Commander, the cards already do the thing you have to find the ways to put those things together
It’s a back and forth in my mind. I have always loved yugioh’s archetype model with some matching my ideals almost exactly. With a couple of friends they’ve felt straight out of luck not finding an archetype to identify with. Magic sets itself apart with strategies that are consistently added to and innovated upon so you’re rarely out of luck with what you want to do. A problem I often find in Magic though is my desire for aesthetic cohesiveness. I have yet to fall in love with any theme or tribe in Magic quite like I have with Blackwings
Yu-Gi-Oh! would be perfect if Konami created some alternative format depending on the card's power. Some people said, "You can play with anything you want". But I'm experienced enough to understand this scam. Because some (a lot) decks don't have the opportunity to compete even in their first release or after new support, S-Force and Dual Avatar, for example, my beloved.
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Konami MD has created some limited low-power formats before. And they're great events. Too bad, these only last for 2 weeks for each event.
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Alternative formats may be really bad for Konami's business. Because their Pay2Win strategy will never work if players have better alternatives to play the game. They only have 1 format and keep the format unbalanced. So they can sell the Overpower easy-to-pilot decks to low-skilled players at very high prices. As 25 y.o. game, and from an old company, they're too afraid to change their business strategy.
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Btw, I love how this channel trying to show how good the YGO card game is. But YGO players trying their best to explain how bad the game is.
Wow, that "one more piece" chant gave me chills. I'm inventing a TCG and this video was extremely helpful.
Super cool moment for sure! And good luck :D
I think a couple archetypes exemplify this the best:
-Suships
-Wind-Ups
-Tiaralament Strongest
-Fluffals
Magic has more subtle synergies you can discover and build around instead of a million prebuilt parasitic packages
Yugioh also has that, but they also have the "prebuilt" decks
so called free thinkers when you ask them why every deck they play uses sol ring, mana crypt, mana vault and force off will
@@raymaztereljackson9729 i only play real formats actually
That is not true at all lmfao rnd in both games prebuild things for the players.
Sorry MTG, but I'm too hooked on summoning monsters named after Japanese onomatopoeia to use as material to summon a card that holds a part of the memories of a heavenly ghost-like creature and chooses to take the form of a giant mecha King of Hope who uses mythical creatures that can transform into various weapons to fight.
(No, I am not making this archetype up.)
I can't judge. My favorite ygo deck is a sleeping girl dreaming about monstrosities made of ice cream and candy
Utopia, Gagaga, Gogogo, Dododo, Zubaba if anyone was wondering
I could see archetypes like Yu-Gi-Oh working as a commander setup. Have something like Infernoble knight Charlse as your commander and have an ability work with creatures with infernoble in their name. It's not perfect, but using "in the name" effects similar to Digimon would be the best way to do a yugioh style archetype in magic.
You bring up such a good point about yugioh! They really do have a lot of character
I kind of disagree with magic to some degree. There are a number of things going on. Firstly, rotation. Due to rotation, how each color manifests is different as the standard meta rolls over. Sometimes blue has powerful counters, but other times it doesn't and has to lean more on bounce effects or something. Then, there are still more archetype like decks that have specific synergies and do something unusual for the color or just mechanically unique. Like, blue is normally control and draw color, but merfolk have a more aggro lean, using group buffers to push damage pretty fast. They can still use the blue counters and draw to enhance this, but they have their own unique synergy within themselves. In mirrodin, blue was focused on artifact turbo, with ways to get more mana specifically for artifacts, but that's not a common trait for the color at all times. Different sets have thus allowed the colors to change their personality with each iteration. Now, they do meld together into a slurry if you look at it from eternal formats like Commander or Modern, where cute synergies get bled out for the most high powered nitro turbo builds. But Magic had rotation and it's set system for a reason. That's why, say, Azorius decks in Return to Ravnika had a specific one turn delay theme that made them have a unique feel to blue white from another block. Sets also tend to have shared lore and art styles within themselves. The Rakdos guild has a very unique theming and artstyle that you won't see even in other red/black decks in other sets. And they can span multiple sets as sets do return to planes to reprise old looks and gameplay styles. Keywords also tend to enforce this variance in feel. Like, bloodrush gave Green Red during Gatecrash such a unique feel. Everything could flex into pump, making combat with them much more intimidating, but gave the decks a more all in feel as you pitched valuable troops for a one turn swing.
bro every competitive card game has a meta wtf are you yapping about 💀
@@user-tg2zw6zx2c What are you talking about? What I am talking about is whether or not MTG can create unique feeling identities to it's colors between sets or if, like this video claims, they are very samey and blue is always blue and the same card every set, which I disagree with.
Perfect timing, locking in on this one!
Hope you enjoyed!
@@OOMTG I loved it! About to start arena soon. Now I feel that I have much to consider 🤔
Good video. I love the self expression in both games.
11:14 I'd say it's never too late. Shadowverse (a japanese Heartstone like digital card game) has relesed it's first Yugioh-like anime series on it's sixth year. The first season was bad, but it did bring new audience (like me) and then they did a GX-type sequeal which has concluded juat recently while it's a rotating card game and has it's own story depicted in cards themselves and story mode. With MTG doing universes beyond, I can see them making a series and then at it's conclusion releasing a standart set that lore-wise has no plot connections to the ongoing storylines.
Also i'd like to remind that Duel Masters manga originally featured MTG instead of their own TCG and then there also exists a rom-com manga about teenagers playing MTG in the 90's. So they have done it in the past, technically
Limited Magic has archetypes not unlike yugioh ones in many ways. Outside of limited, they're usually not strong enough to impact constructed formats, but they do still exist, and if you're not drafting with them in mind, you're probably going to go 0-3.
It's a little ironic because archetypes are the reason you can technically play limited with older yugioh sets and have fun but not newer ones. Largely because there are too many archetypes crammed in a set, with many cards having restrictive requirements that make them unplayable without enough support.
I personally really love the freedom in deckbuilding and fast pace yugioh offers. I've played a little magic and pokemon, but niether hit the same. I think runick is a great example of some of the best yugioh has to offer. Runick can be used in tandem with so many other decks each with their unique synergies and every variant plays different enough to have its own reasons to play. The other side of the coin is that I personally find lands as a system to be very annoying and frustating. I understand the benefits and that it has depth, but it feels like garbage and I don't like it.
Well I like 5 color cause I want to have a deck that uses all of the different strategies, I wanna a collection of adaptable cards, I want the personality of my deck to be freeform adaptation and a collectors style deck. It’s not that I don’t like the choices, I just really get bored when a deck is one strategy, ofc it’s always why my decks are a mess 😂
I stopped playing Yu-Gi-Oh back in 2012 because it got two complicated and stopped beuhg fun. But mtg allowed me to acctuly enjoy making decks and coming up with cool and created themes and archetypes. I knew a guy who played competitive mtg and had an unbeatable deck. My completely build from the ground up Treefolk Deck destroyed him because he never played against Treefolk and his deck wasn't prepared. The fact that i can play my childhood dream of commanding an army of Ents from Lord of the Rings is just completely bliss. And mtg has no restrictions on how many creatures you can have out. I honestly think that the biggest thing i love about mtg over Yu-Gi-Oh.
I guess but thats why i like yugioh better....space management rather than "oh i have no mana.....guess i literally can't even put down a card" like yeah you can play unlimited creatures.....but not if you have no lands...yugioh doesnt need land but you gotta think about how you use the 5 of each zone you are given...hope i'm making sense here
Until he counters it
@@metalmario1231nah, Yugi also has that "resources" problem with the normal summon. Yeah, you can go really wide with special summons, but at some point your deck is gonna run out of gas. :b
2012???
The xyz era? What was so bad back then?
@@Ramox900 Wind-Up, Inzektor, and Dino Rabbit were ravaging the format and Konami decided to hit the plant synchro deck that was long since out of the meta.
The summer and fall then gave us Fire Water format(which funnily enough neither were the best deck, turns out it was Dark World).
The way I express myself Is through yes, aesthetic but also through play, sometimes a Yugioh deck will go through radical changes in how it plays, sometimes it's after decades, sometimes it's after a card is banned or someone finds a new card or something that radically alters the game plan in order to stave off being left behind by powercreep, which means if you love the aesthetic of a deck but hate how it plays, it doesn't mean that it'll stay like this forever, which also means you can stop liking how a Deck plays despite liking the aesthetics but then you just pick something else to play
My Yugioh decks are based off of cute girls ngl
Don't lie, we all know that TCG players are terrified of women
@@ARC--5973 sorry Cute *Anime* girls
@@DakotaBroskie That's better
😂😅
What kind of anime cute girl is the question in Yugioh
When it comes to mtg ideas. I'd just build a theme of anne rice books.
Thats it!
For me it's the question of experience and impact as odd as it sounds.
Magic is mostly the card game. Yugioh has started to limit itself.
If we look at their card simulator like Magic Arena vs Yugioh Master Duel.
Look at their side plays or side options.
Magic is mostly play and forget. I have run into more meta focus in that alone even with their Brawl decks... thab the Master Duel Gold teir wonderland.
In gold tier you can face Dragon maid, Odd eyes, toons, heroes, evil eyes and more.
In magic... you face whichever meta color build in the system.
Even Brawl which is based around a 1v1 version of Commander (i enjoy brawl over commander actually)... tends to have you running against the same decks with little variations.
Magic has heaps of creature types that have tribal support what do u mean
This guys pure f*%# passion for squirrel cards literally makes him my kindred spirit
they are very important
In Magic i usally play Mono Black Devotion (Grey Merchant). I have played other colours but i did like Rakdos, Orzhov, and Mardu colours, Black, white, and red are my favorites in that order. I have speculated on a Rainbow Deck but that would ether be Slithers or "moms creedit card" deck.
I have not played Yugioh but i have speculated on a Wight Necromancer (Skul Servent) deck, i used to play lots of Tribal (before Black Devotion) in Magic so i feel Skul Servent might be right.
There are some yugioh cards i like and tried to fit in to q Skul Servent deck but it becomes worse the less Skul Servents there are
Well, an issue with Skull Servant is the reliance on having cards wich that name in your graveyard.
The original objective was to make a big King of the Skull Servant with the Skull Servants in grave for one big punch.
Aw now I miss Chaotic again. I do like the differences you showed off, where do you think Digimon fits as a nice middle ground of the TCG? They've got tribal stuff and color restrictions like Magic, as well as archetypes and iconic characters like Yu-Gi-Oh.
I think digimon is another great example.
What I see that most people commenting here get confused about is how the idea of self expression relates to winning, instead of how it relates to having fun.
The overall subject of this video is exactly what I'm thinking about lately, and I 100% agree with your points (except for commander, I hate commander, and to me it's basically a different game, so I don't want anything to do with it).
I see many people saying that Magic already has what Yu-Gi-Oh has, or at least something similar to it.
However, the closest thing to YGO's archetypes I can think of in Magic would be a named faction on one of its many, many plains. This is something that works with sets taking place on that plain, but many plains also only get one set, and we either don't return there for many years at a time or not at all.
The other thing I see people saying is that there are general themes in specific color combinations in Magic that basically do the same thing as YGO's archetypes mechanically. That can be true to an extent because it's true that, for example, Red+Blue will almost certainly always be about Instants and Sorceries, or Red+Blue+White would be about Instants and Sorceries, but maybe also Artifacts.
However, 2 or 3 color combinations sometimes take different mechanical directions and often have different names, depending on the set/plain, which prevents them from having an actual FLAVOR IDENTITY (which is precisely what YGO's archetypes have).
Archetypes in YGO have their own visual language and (and that's crucial) a naming convention that ties cards from the same archetype together. This way, even if the scope of what an archetype does mechanically is expanded, and even if it doesn't get support for a long time, any time cards are added to it, players will get a clear signal that their favourite archetype has received some goodies. They'll know that they're not forgotten and forced to change their identity in order to conform to the meta, and will experience the game growing in their own way.
This brings me back to my earlier point about many people thinking of archetypes in relation to winning games instead of in relation to having fun. What I mean by that is that in Magic, players seem to see the 'themes' (the closest term Magic players use to describe what would be an archetype in YGO) as more of a mechanically similar, or synergistic cluster of cards while archetypes in YGO have a more flavorful connection between them (on top of the mechanical one) . Therefore, choosing an archetype in YGO isn't necessarily based on what will help you win the most games, but more on what just feels more like you. And you can count on those archetypes to feel somewhat consistent forever, precisely due to the visual language and naming conventions used for establishing their identity.
Themes in Magic work similarly but lack that specificity that helps someone identify strongly with any one of them. They're way more of a subject to interpretation that would vary wildly from player to player.
For example, my favourite theme in Magic is Ninjas but a ninja deck I build might have nothing in common with a ninja deck that someone else might build. Yeah, they'd probably both be Blue+Black, but that's it. I've seen 'Ninja' deck lists that only have one or two cards that are, or reference ninjas. They mostly just adhere to the color identity of the theme, but flavorfuly have almost nothing to do with it. To me this isn't as good as YGO's archetypes in terms of self expression.
I don't care if I win every game, or even many games, I want to play what feels right to me and clicks with my personality, even if it's not optimal in terms of gameplay. And I can do this in Magic but it just doesn't feel as though any theme has a cohesive identity. It always feels like I'm the one inventing the theme.
The question I suppose would never be resolved (because it's a matter of taste), is which option is better. Some would prefer the looseness and interpretative nature of Magic, some would want the more streamlined and specific approach of YGO.
(The edits were typos)
Great thoughts here! I agree a lot with what you've said. I left MTG and came back to YGO during the pandemic, and love to play some of the old archetypes I loved as a kid. I recently picked up Ancient Gears in Master Duel and they received new support. I've beaten some strong decks with an archetype from 2005! (I left MTG, mostly because my playgroup split up and no one got into digital MTG. I still have commander decks to play when I visit old friends, but I don't plan on ever giving updating or buying new MTG product.)
Mana is fine. I just don't like that Land Energy garbage.
I do CPU vs CPU yugioh tournaments on my channel. Not all but many of the characters tend to follow a archetype or theme. For my upcoming video I plan to introduce ancient Egypt characters. Atems guardians each will focus on a different archetype yami yugi had. Kuriboh, dark magician, buster blader, phantom beast, Gaia knights, exodia,
Yugioh and Magic seem to be trying to become more like each other.
Magic keeps trying to become faster, making the first turn matter a lot more than it does, while Yugioh is making a leap towards "Hand Traps", which activate from the Hand, having less to do with setting the Traps on the field.
Yugioh's deckbuilding is actually not that restrictive, we Yugioh Players just like to complain about it.
The Masochist Challenge on Master Duel will show that cards that are terrible in their archetype can work pretty well outside of it... one example is Labyrinth Archfiend, which never actually appears in Labyrinth but is an easily summonable high level monster that can work well in a non-archetypal deck.
Archetypes seem more like an attempt to become more like Magic, restricting cards to their own type and attribute in order to weaken them. Old cards like Monster Reborn have been changed into more specific versions of the card to weaken it by tying it to a specific deck type... so Dark Magic Veil for example is a Monster Reborn for Dark Spellcasters (so in this case it is as though the deck you're playing is trying to CHECK that you're actually playing Dark Spellcasters in order to get THIS effect).
Certain revival effects became so tied to Archetypes that the ACTUAL Monster Reborn became nearly worthless as it isn't as searchable as "In Archetype Monster Reborn's".
Judgement Dragon as a random monster example CHECKS that you are playing Lightsworn by requiring you to have at least 4 in the GY before summoning it... but if you ARE playing Lightsworn then you have a 3000/ATK beater that can wipe the board repeatedly and aids the archetype by milling your own deck at the end of your turn.
The card is powerful but it is balanced due to requiring a certain number of other SPECIFIC cards to play.
I'm new to Magic but from what I've seen so far:
Magic seems too divided by type with certain deck types lacking versatility because of the colour of the card... this usually results in one colour dominating the rest...
Blue for example is the strongest colour because of the versatility of the options it gives you... Counter Spell, Copy Spell, Floodgates, discarding, enchanting, etc... a lot of the best cards in the game are Blue.
The colour that I personally have seen the most of (besides Blue) is Black... this is typically because Black has a lot of "Yugioh Style" effects (pay Life to do something.... LP doesn't matter, only the last one does.... winning is all about card advantage. This is why Black tends to have a lot of Hand Rip effects, Life-steal, Life-drain, Milling, Target Destruction, etc...
Since most Yugioh Decks would fall under the banner of Blue-Black, it makes sense that these colours are the most represented (as I've seen) as they are the fastest colour combination that also provides omni-negates against the opponent in the form of Counterspells and self milling to Revive/Cheat strong creatures out without paying Mana.
I know that Red is fast but it seems to be a glass cannon style of fast where it just sacrifices defence for offence... Green seems to only serve as a backup type... I've never seen Mono Green (yet).... it's always used as a backup colour to gain Mana for the main strategy, which is why Green seems to be the weakest colour. I'm sure I'm missing something here, but from what I've gathered, Blue is the strongest and Green is the weakest.
Magic has less individual identity to their cards, which is the whole thing with Yugioh "Forming a bond with your cards".... your cards have a sort of personality of their own which is separate from "You The Player"... which adds that extra layer of personlity when you summon Exodia, Dark Magician, Blue-Eyes White Dragon, Aroma Jar, Vampire Lord, Number 39: Utopia....
With Magic it's just a big guy.... with Yugioh it's "Hey, I know that guy, he's pretty cool".
You don't get that in Magic outside of cards like Nicol Bolas, The Phyrexian Praetors, Urza, etc.... the older creatures that were MTG original.
I think Magic may be trying to patch this up by adopting other franchises with already known characters like Assassins Creed, Lord of The Rings, Fallout, etc...
With Yugioh Blue-Eyes White Dragon isn't just a monster, it's a card.... the same card that you see in the Anime.... a kid playing this card can feel like Seto Kaiba when he slams it onto the board....
With Magic Ezio, Aragorn, Sauron, Gandalf, etc are characters that became cards... it's less like you are playing Gandalf and more like you are playing a card that has his picture on it.
With Blue-Eyes it feels like THAT SPECIFIC CARD IS Blue-Eyes White Dragon, that SPECIFIC card IS Dark Magician, that SPECIFIC CARD is Snake-Eyes Flamberge Dragon, Aroma Jar, Stardust Dragon, Junk Berserker, etc and it's like you are forming a bond with that card.... if that makes any sense...
Ygo has waifus thats why i keep coming back. And i love when they release stylized archtypes prank kids or mimighoul.
However as a brand new mtg commander player. Ygo doesnt hold a drop in the bucket when it comes to deckbuilding and awe of watching ppl come up with different win conditions and synergies. Mtg players are honestly so spoiled in all the deck building resources they have its astonishing
Woe, Yajiro Invader is upon ye
I felt the absolute opposite, for me yu-gi-oh absolutely fails at it's premise that "anyone could do/make anything with their deck, as long as you're doing it right".
Then you need to watch jank decks play because the crazy shit they do embodies this perfectly
Interesting. I'd love to hear why :)
@@metalmario1231 god I love jank decks
so bad news... they were working on a TV show and they had canned it recently. all we know about it is that the voice capture may have been done? But ya that sucks. I feel like both ygo and mtg are not fully exploring their iconic characters and creatures enough in the digital media. Imagine a Moba where blue eyes is a carry or an ARPG where you're playing as some of magics most iconic legendary creatures (this was also cancelled). It's surprising to see that they've not branched out too much.
Magic can absolutely make a show or movie work now. People who aren't as interested in the lore could appreciate the characters playing their own decks in a merge between the game and an actual fight. It would also be interesting watching a show like Yugioh but with MTG.
Can definitely agree on the art aspect making decks feeling “samey”. But, in comparison to Yugioh, both deckbuilding and gameplay is far more enjoyable to me.
Me as tearlament and primevals titan player : my deck are the strongest.
Tiaraments strongest💪💪
Concerning the cards themselves and the lore behind it, I feel like magic has yugioh beat imo. Sure you do have your iconic monsters seen "played" in the manga and anime. But MTG, there are actual narrative depth within the creatures, spells, and the lands themselves. Which helps players in their choice of cards they may play thanks to the what each character brings to the deck.
Now one of my goto methodology behind my brews for decks really is jank for jank sake. Finding mechanics and interactions what breaks the game in a long winded manner. Sure it requires all the parts of the machine to function, but coming up with said function and seeing it action really brings me creative fulfillment.
So mtg really got me gripped by both of my balls, in the aspect of lore and world building, the other being mechanics and function. I love all the named leganardies and Planeswalkers, and being able to make a duplication engine where i can mass produce them to the point of several dozen planeswalkers being spawnwed cause Wizards didnt expect someone to pull such a stunt in standard just brings me joy in general... Lol
when people talk about lore cards in yugioh it has nothing to do with the anime actually
instead we refer to certain cards and archetype that altogether is of a shared lore whose story is told in fragments over the years entirely through the card’s name, art and effects and only after does konami releases small snippets of the actual lore to confirm or rectify the playerbase’s interpretation of it
there are multiple different storyline separate from one another each drawing inspiration from various myth, legend and religions such as
- abyss/albaz lore which directly takes from william blake’s personal mythos combined with the welsh legend of the red dragon and the white dragon where the red dragon the symbol of wales won over the invading white dragon but the protagonist of this story is an amnesiac draconic human who represent the white dragon
- the visas or broken world lore which is essentially a reimagining of the hindu god vishinu as he journey through various world meeting his avatars as different dimensional counterparts representing his lost emotions unaware hes stuck in an eternal time loop orchestrated by a higher observer only known as veda upanishad
- the world legacy storyline which is essentially a jrpg epic with some biblical and mesopotamian references telling the story of 3 childhood friends venturing out from their small village to uncover the secrets of the world only to get way more then they bargain for in both shocking revelation and tragedies
the anime cards in comparison has little to no lore behind them beyond simply being used by the characters they represent as personality powers reconceptualized as entities in a card game and using them in real life is more in line with LARPing instead
So it seems like it's closer to piecing together the lore like the souls games, through tidbits of item description and dialogue. Weaving a tapestry of lore of each card and their faction through our the years
@@tasogarerubica yes though its not as far out there as most of the time its pretty apparent what is happening and that again konami do actually release the lore in lore books called master guide but the narration is simply just summaries and explanation of events rahter then anything detailed or actual storytelling
for example in the world legacy storyline in the art of the card [world legacy heart] it shows lee a fairy presenting ib 1 of the 3 main characters of the world legacy storyline 1 of the world legacy relics, the chalice -> the art of [world legacy's secret] mirrors this cept the chalice is blackened, lee has a sinister aura around her and an evil smile -> [nightmare corrupter iblee] has its name a combination of ib and lee and shows ib with her clothes blackened, black splattered shadows on her skin and a hedonistic smile -> [world legacy awakens] shows what seems to be ib's soul partially out of her body -> [world legacy struggle] shows ib's soul manipulating the hands of her body to stab herself with a sword while her body seem to resist as if someone else was controlling it as auram the protagonist of the world legacy storyline in the background watches in horror -> [world legacy's sorrow] portrays auram cradling ib's body as ningirsu, ib's older brother standing behind at a distance in silence
its pretty obvious what happened
some others is more vague like in the albaz lore [swordsoul of mo ye] of the swordsoul archetype depicts a literally black skin humanoid swordwomen in asian-esque draconic robes with a very unique sword, the same sword that swordsoul longyuan is wielding in the art of [icejade erosion] leaving people to wonder what happened to mo ye as she never showed up in any other albaz lore card considering within the lore its confirmed that longyuan did indeed betrayed the swordsouls and went on an icejade genocide fest but people have noticed that the icy isopod creature that is the card [icejade creation aegirocassis] there is a small figure at its center that resembles mo ye a bit, its a bit of a stretch but people theorized langyuan either killed or gravely wounded her with her body now used by icejade aegirine to create aegirocassis and it took until konami actually revealing the lore that yes this is in fact mo ye currently or rather what has become of her corpse being used in the creation of aegirocassis a combat support unit for aegirine to take revenge on longyuan for the slaughtering of her race as depicted on [icejade manifestation] showing the start of their battle
I love both but in terms of creativity and a sense of community id choose magic the gathering
Yugioh fans have been asking for an archetype anime, so we can explore the cool stories behind the cards
Magic is literally the Fortnight of cards (even though I still play yugioh here and there)
i think YGO and MTG tickle different parts of our brains. these days i prefer Magic because there are significantly more formats (EDH, Pauper, Drafts, etc) that are very accessible to me.
and while i love GOAT and Edison formats, i find most venues/players only really care about Advanced...
Absolutely agree. It kinda hits me in waves which I'm drawn to more - but having options is never something I'll complain about lol
I think the large variety of officially supported formats is one of Magic's largest strengths, and one people don't mention enough.
It's so nice that whenever one format is broken or stale, you can just try another and have a whole new meta game and card pool.
The Luffy apparating in for a frame jumpscared me
Archetypes in MTG is kinda like tribal decks? Maybe idk.
Magic should be more free and less archetype driven. It stays true to the roots of the games ludonarrative better. Magic is like D&D in that a Dimir Wizard will always be a Dimir Wizard, just as a D&D cleric will always play like a D&D cleric. Whether it's Ashiok or Lazav, or the cleric worships Lolth or Lathander. There will be small differences and room for you to make it your own thing but the bones of the play will be the same now as it was 10 years ago or 10 years from now. If you know you like the playstyle of a cleric or Dimir, you don't have to be locked in to the exact same character or the exact same archetype to continue enjoying the play.
It's a different approach to Yugioh and comes from a different landscape of game design, not a better one just an irrevocably seperate one. Garfield was an RPG nerd and though Magic is not an RPG, that element of customization is still rooted in the games heart. And considering how many times the Magic community has rejected attemps by R&D to 'Marvelize' the game as many grognards would complain, I don't think that should or ever will change. Commander is as close as we have ever gotten to archetypes and as that format has aged, the color pie philosophy has held strong as archetypes have diluted into an ever growing pool of interchangeable Legendaries.
Yugioh has sushi battleships, mtg loses based on that alone
YGO no longer creates new archetypes, people mostly like old iconic archetypes like dark world/black wings/heroes. As Konami continues to come up with new themes in the latest sets but still needs to sell and create new cards this leads to an endless flow of dead archetypes that will never be explored or supported again in a meaningful way. You simply have no time or space to support all these archetypes but the money is in the archetypes AND you have no resource system and insane power creep.The cycle of "oh we get new X support" stretches further and further, so you actually wait longer and longer for new support of YOUR deck. The rest of the game is seeing what's Tier 1 or Tier 2 and having the "freedom" or more like an illusion of that. IMO YGO has neither freedom nor self-expression and if you look at Magic I'd say it just depends on the format. Commander certainly checks both of these points.
1:04 the RDW slander is savage. 😂
No wonder you find Yu-Gi-Oh! better despite this channel being about Magic: The Gathering. Any Yu-Gi-Oh! videos coming up?
I don't think I find it better, they just both scratch different itches for me if that makes sense
Not sure yet, it's not off the table tho :)
Yugioh has the benefit of being high production value media to accompany the cards and Konami would be foolish to not leverage that. Magic's never had anything close, so WotC puts lore in the background.
WotC tried for so long to make Magic a multi-media franchise because they know how strong a draw recognizable characters are. The entire LoTR set was basically "remember this person/place/event?" It would be nice to hace an MtG equivalent of Yugioh's anime or manga, but don't take Yugioh's multi-media success for granted. Konami's tried replicating it, but DM-era Yugioh was lighting in a bottle.
You've hit the nail in the head when it comes to Yu-Gi-Oh!'s appeal. The archetypes are so varied and out there that you're almost guaranteed to a pick a deck that perfectly reflects your particular interests. Do you like western cartoons? Play Toons. Do you like fighting games? Play Vanquish Souls. Are you a fan of Toku? Kaijus and DANGER! are perfect for you. Even people that are fans of stuff like FNAF and Star Wars get represented with Frightfurs and Kozmo respectively. And if you have a particular attachment to a certain character in the anime, just run their deck.
Meanwhile Magic has always gave the impression of being shackled by its "house style". They've been trying to branch out with Unsets and crossovers, but I feel like that only really enforces the issue. You can't just have American superheroes or cartoon parodies or space themed amusement parks existing in the same generic fantasy setting Magic has. Those fun concepts need to be pushed into their own little corner lest they risk alienating the audience.
I think you are incorrect about Magic being stuck to it's "House Style". The whole concept of Planeswalking, a core concept in the base of Magic's lore, lets them do whatever type of archetypes they can think of. Sure there are a lot of classic fantasy types, but you have things like the Phyrexians, a magical bio-tech war machine of an archetype, to the Plane of Kamigawa, which went from magical Edo-Period Japan to a almost Cyber Punk Neon Dynasty in the last visit to that plane. You have the eldritch horrors of the Eldrazi to the american wild west outlaws of Thunder Junction. Hell, the latest set, Bloomborrow, has you playing as small talking animals (with specific archetypes such as Lizards, Bats, Rats, Mice, Otters and others that each are focused on a 2 color pairing and each have a particular unique playstyle). Magic has many, many different archetypes and continues to expand on them.
I like them both and they both have their pros and cons. The one thing that magic does that Yu-Gi-Oh should do is support multiple formats. If Konami did that Yu-Gi-Ohs player base will be much bigger but at least Yu-Gi-Oh doesn't have infinite combos since most cards are once per turn.
Konami would rather make more cross duels 🙄
@@OOMTGKonami in Japan seems fine but over here they need to be fired or something
Im just not seeing it, personally. It's cool that you can pick your favorite archetype to represent yourself, but the actual expression in deckbuilding is so extremely limited that its pretty hard to say its a more creative game.
And, magic also has a pretty wide array of different archetypes beyond just aggro, control, midrange. You have enchantress, aristocrats, reanimator, landfall, lifegain, burn, tokens, mill, self mill, equipments, and a whole ton of different tribal types, etc. Plus commander exists, which is just the same argument for yugioh but with less deckbuilding restrictions.
The yugioh anime do be pretty good, though.
To be honest yugioh is not so great as it looks, 1/3 of all decks are the same cards and a Duell goes most of the time 3 rounds. It is really boring if you don’t play Meta and that sucks hard.
For a magic show maybe a guy got in the world of magic as plainswalker and have to find his way back with his magic cards but he summons them from his memory like spells because that’s what the cards actually are or in real. I can’t see a magic Serie where they actually play the game tbh.
If you play meta... in my City are tourbaments of Goat Format / Fun , and Anime
Chaotic mentioned
Dual Masters and Chaotic.
7:05 meta sheep 😭😭
squirrels mentioned!!!!!!!! 🥳🥳🥳🥳
I believe yugioh may have the most freedom and self expression of all card games. Just by watching a couple episodes of mbt's dueltaining seriess you begin to see how many wacky things you can do in the game. If we're talking about both freedom and self expression, look at the combo where someone reenacted the failed tr*mp ass*ssination attempt (censoring because idk if youtube blocks those words)
I've just watched a video where someone combod off destroying two duel towers field spells with dracossack (an airplane) to make a 9/11 joke in master duel
I am big spell, I am the inner timmy.
Note, Magic the Gathering does have secondary media. Magic has novels and short stories, and you won't find a player more dedicated to a card than one that grew up reading the stories about that character. Like people have legit opinions on characters like Urza.
Magic definitely DOES have secondary media, but I feel like you have to go looking for it. Whereas Yugioh is shoving their other stuff in your face to expose you to it
@OOMTG part of it is age. Back when MTG really put a lot of resources into secondary media, it was when TCGs were more niche and thus fewer eyes to grab in general. Second factor is that for the big three TCGs, MTG is the only one that is first and foremost a TCG while Yu-Gi-Oh started as a monster of the week Shonen battle manga and Pokémon was a video game. To those games, the card game is the secondary media, while MTG lives and dies off its game.
1:02 okay
1st - how did you know?
2nd - Saying this after implying blue players are intelligent is WILD
As a black player. I still enjoy Prototype in 2024
Mtg already has a manga, look up Detroy all humans, they cant be regenerated
Im pretty sure the colors in magic mean less these days
I could never get into MTG, partly because I very much dislike how it plays, but also because the artstyle is so boring imo. There is an aesthetic for everyone in Yugioh, Lovecraftian Horrors, we got ya, anime waifus, we got ya, anthropomorphic kitchen supplies, yep!
Check out Eldrazis.
Lmao i love the red hate 😂
ONE MORE PIECE ONE MOEE PIECE
Hype af
played both same shit diffrent coat of paint.
I feel like more sinergy is not the way for magic at all. The meta is already too fast paced and sinergy normally creates speed. I think magic is a more "sober" game than Yu-Gi-Oh and I don't think it should be changed. They are fundamentally different games with different core concepts and ideas. If anything I feel like magic is getting to close to Yu-Gi-Oh with all of the casting stuff for free effects
All the free spells are definitely giving that feeling 😂
i'm not really looking for more synergy exactly. I was looking for ways to make magic's cards more engaging and to allow them to show off the player's personality. The example of archetypes from yugioh is just how they do that. I agree that they are and SHOULD both remain separate and unique games
@@OOMTG I feel like the personality still shines through in the colors, playstyles and card choices in the deck. Maybe not as clear as in Yu-Gi-Oh but it's still noticeable in the undertones.
WDYM, there is a TON of synergies in MTG
Right now, I'm using (in standard), a deck around sacrifice synergies, with Urabrask's forge creating tokens I can sacrifice to get bonuses from Scavenger's talent, potentially get an extra draw with Braids, and eventually resurrect big creatures from the GY. There's plenty of possibilities for building a deck around this theme.
RDW right now has every card having some form of synergy from being targeted with pump spells.
Rabbits just boost each others like the soldier decks of old.
Honestly, outside of decks like Golgari or monoblack midrange which are more about having strong solo cards you can put down every turn, all the playable decks are very synergistic.
But it takes a slightly different form than in YGO.
A "Waifu Girl" card in YGO will typically only allow you to search or interact with other "Waifu Girl" cards. A lot of this segmenting of card search in YGO is rather artificial. Necessary due to terrible design decisions dating back to the start of the game, but artificial nonetheless. And your archetype will often signpost very obviously in what it's trying to have you do. Tha
In contrast, MTG cards tend to have simpler, less restrictive effects that really can shine if you take the time to find smart ways to use them. You'll find cards that synergize with very broad mechanics of the game (eg, sacrificing your stuff, effects dealing with any counter, any triggered abilities, or that allow you to paste abilities from one card to another, or copying spells...). It is supported by a robust comprehensive rules system next to which YGO rulings look absolutely amateurish.
Because of this, it's reasonably easy to find ways to do absolutely crazy things in MTG, such as getting infinite boards, drawing your whole deck, growing a creature to absurd power, or going for a weird alternate win condition. There's a lot of complex, heavily synergistic decks that absolutely can go toe to toe with the best decks in MTG, though of course they tend to be more complex to play and therefore less popular than the old RDW.
But you also have to remember that in MTG cards have cost, that naturally give a pace to the game, unlike in YGO where you do your whole thing in one uninterrupted turn.
I think one of the misunderstandings people have with MTG is that it is a game where, unlike in YGO where the complexity floor is very high, you can find viable decks at basically any level of complexity you want to engage with. And people will naturally gravitate towards the simplest options, but that doesn't mean that very expressive, complex, and unique decks don't exist.
yugi has waifus and in magic everything is gay hahahahahaha.
Balanced, as all things should be
Does anyone else find magic cards really boring to look at.
No
I wouldn’t say boring but the medieval fantasy aesthetic never really did anything for me. I know a lot magic player hate the lore breaking expansions but the Fallout one is certainly interesting to me and gives some variety
Try checking out Baleful Strix, Gift of Orzhova, or Glimpse the impossible. There's plenty of great arts out there.
Yes
Archetypes in MTG is kinda like tribal decks? Maybe idk. There is a bunch of books in the mtg world
Yea tribal is probably the closest we have
I would agree that tribal can be a lot like archetypes, depending on the tribal. I mean, I play tribal Treefolk in both modern and EDH. There is so much synergy in tribal Treefolk, especially from the Lwyorn and Shadowmere block.
Tribe specific cards also allow for such interesting and powerful design by limiting their scope. It allows for a really cool push and pull in game design
Let's be honest, nowadays Commander IS the main format. That already solves a lot of the issues.
No commander is not. It is the party game of magic the gathering. The main game still is modern with a 60 card deck.
Commander I run into is mostly field nukes and expensive decks trying to ramp as quickly as possible to end games by turn four.
That is less expression and more speed running.
All YGO decks play the same strategy (spam "special" summons, get Ur boss monster from Main or Extra Deck, if First Set up the negations, if second destroy the board then set up Ur negations), and The Devs Even Have it Pre-Made for the players (archetypes), its the player just don't know/admit it....
The true genius are the YGO devs, successfully making their players Feel Smart despite of the "freedom" you claim, when in fact is Super Linear and homogenus...
There is plenty of variety if you want to look for it. Nemlaria, Dinomorphia, sky strikers, eldlich, etc etc. They aren't the strongest decks, bit if you're not trying to play hyper competitive then theres a ton of unique options
yeah that's kinda just what a gameplay loop is, you can kinda say that about literally any game.
@@OOMTG Genius YGO Devs
My problem with Magic honestly isn’t even the freedom or self expression, it’s obvious that the game has that in droves, Yugioh does as well, hell, Kaiju-Owner’s seal is semi-playable right now. But it’s the resource system, it’s incredibly hard for me to get around cards just being bricks until you pay x amount of funny points so you can play the game.
Not to say Yugioh doesn’t have archetypes that have similar mechanics, like six sams and their bushido counters, but it’s contained in those archetypes. In magic you can just draw a completely unusable hand a majority of the time because you either got all your creatures but no lands or a bunch of lands with nothing to use them on. Got gifted a starter deck by a friend who loves the game and I didn’t have the heart to tell him that I didn’t have an ounce of fun.
this is something that doesnt get said enough, ive seen far too many mtg players with the mindset that everything needs to have some inherent resource system to play that they view anything without it with disdain or incomprehensible
in general tcg arent actually that big a thing in the overall pop culture scene and outsiders who want to just take a dip into a tcg just to see what its about just simply dnt like the idea that right out of the gate their gameplay is dictated and restricted
@@YukiFubuki.But yugioh have your own resource system, Life, cards and 1 normal summon per turn, thats no problem in different resources systems, i honestly prefer ygo resource system then lands in magic, but the problem in modern ygo is that konami broke their resource system so many times and keep doing it.
Magic have a few cards that "broke" the mana system too, like free spells, spells that trade life for mana or Life for cards, but i feel in magic they care more about the healthy of the game, konami just broke the game intencionally to sell the New stupid and broken cards, again and again...
@@lucasvettorato7087 yea but there is a huge difference between something where a the resources is a stipulation of anything and everything and something where the resource is hard coded into the architecture itself
@@YukiFubuki. The problem with ygo resources are konami card designers, 1 normal summon and cards in hand are the most valuable resources in the game, but they make no sense if all The cards you play get you a +1 or more cards, and all The monster can special summon.
For that reason i agree with modern ygo makes no sense anymore, but its not a problem with the rules of the game, its card design, if wizards prints a New stronger black lotus every year, magic would be a broken game too.
@@lucasvettorato7087 these things always existed since even caveman yugioh, the difference is that their availability and usability has been elevated like back then there was no stopping you from using graceful charity and/or pot of greed to draw and discard 3 blue eyes into the grave just to revive it with the 3 monster reborn you just drew on your first turn outside of the probability of it
but this is besides the point, my comment is to point that the average joe isnt gonna look into a tcg for the first time and automatically perceived a inherent resource system as some holy grail that ive see way too many mtg players desperately portray it as as most of the time they will just see it as a restriction on fun instead
its like going into a fast food restaurant to be given an extremely limited menu and then told more of it will be unlocked after certain purchase milestones, the only customers that stick aorund will only be those who knows exactly what theyre getting while everyone else will just go to a different fast food chain instead because again tcg in general arent actually that popular a thing in the whole pop culture scene
Yu-Gi-Oh is the worst card game ever!
Calm down, you get cranky when you miss your nap
Get the snickers! @@OOMTG
Minimum deck size = ???
Maximize hand size = ??
Starting life total = ?
Range of influence = ???
Number of player = ??
Number of teammate = ?
Number of winner = ???
Restricted = ??
Banned = ?
PLAYER VS PLAYER.
PLAYER VS TEAM.
TEAM VS TEAM.
Choose two
●Ante.
●Trade.
●Forbid ante.
●Forbid trade.
●Continue ante.
●Before trade.
●Keep ante.
●Between trade.
●Food ante.
●Public trade.
DUEL = one game.
SET = three game.
MATCH = six game.
Choose one
●Single elimination.
●Double elimination.
●Triple elimination.
●Single round robin.
●Double round robin.
●Triple round robin.
●Swiss.
●Dutch.
●Monrad.
TYPE 1= all set.
TYPE 2= one expansion set/two expansion set/one block/one core set/one core set and one expansion set/one core set and two expansion set/one core set and three expansion set/one core set and four expansion set/one core set and one block/one core set, one expansion set and one block/one core set, two expansion set and one block/one core set and two block/two core set and one block/two core set, one expansion set and one block/two core set, two expansion set and one block/two core set, three expansion set and one block/two core set and two block.
TYPE 3= all common/all uncommon/all rare/all mythic.
TYPE 4= all white border/all black border/all silver border/all gold border.
Choose how many
●Sideboard deck option.
●Mulligan hand option.
●March creature option.
●Burrow mana option.
●Attack left option.
●Attack right option.
●Attack both option.
●Attack single option.
●Attack multiple option.
●Attack across option.
●Shuffling deck option.
●Cutting deck option.
●Trait adjustment option.
●Equal footing option.
●Time out option.
●Final round option.
●Recurring card option.
●Thinning card option.
●Head start option.
●Come back option.
●Sealed pool option.
●Friend brew option.