Wow, this’s the 1st detail review of strain wave drive mount that I ever found on internet , and it’s so deep in detail on operate , thank you so so much on the video. BTW , it’s pricy now but may be the next generation of the mount style for amateur astro photography lover since the worm gear has been there for decades with no change .
Very nice overview! It definitely looks better thought out overall than my old Crux 140 traveller (with the exception of backdriving, I'll be very interested in seeing how that looks, it sounds scary!). Clear skies!
The backdriving isn't as scary as it sounds, but could cause issues if you're not prepared for it. I hope to have the video out shortly on it after a few more tests.
Great video! I just got an RST-135 myself, and was wondering how to polar align it efficiently. Your tip to go to the "parking" menu is just what I needed, thanks! Looking forward to seeing more content on this little mount! Cheers
Any feedback on damping time at higher magnification(200x and above) for loads in the 30-40lb range? I am curious about a C11 or 10” f5 Newtonian with counterweight attached. Either with this lightweight tripod or berlebach uni 18 tripod.
I picked up the non encoder 135 and I’ve been thrilled with it! 15 min subs no worries with my Z73 and 294. I’m very interested to see how this goes guiding with a big sct. I’m keen to try mine with a C8 but I don’t have one!
Thanks for the excellently informative vid. Why did you opt for the E version? My understanding is that the non E version guides very well (~0.5 arc second RMS) with multi star guiding and 0,5s guide exposure. The E version can obviously be used unguided for short FL (up to 300-400 mm) and up to ~5 mins exposure but needs to be guided for longer FL, and the E version is easier to guide (longer guiding exposures possible because guiding does not have to fight the large intrinsic PEC) at all FLs. Does this sound like a reasonable summary? Trying to decide between the two which comes down to whether the additional 25%+ cost of the E is worth it. Tending towards the non E version. Thoughts appreciated. Cheers, Des
I opted for the E so that I didn't have to be aggressive with my guiding. I plan to OAG with the 9.25 and was worried about how well I could capture stars at 0.5s at such a long focal length. As far as I have gathered you are correct with your thoughts on the E vs non-E. If you are able to get good sub second exposure times than the non-E can save you a good amount of money.
Hi RoRo, I plan to purchase (well, to be waitlisted with deposit) TEC APO140FL F/7... Is RST-135 good enough for the telescope for visual use only? I will be traveling with the scope + mount maybe once a month, also plan to install metal/concrete post in my backyard. Just visual, no photography.... Will Appreciate your input, thanks!!!
Very nice Review of a Product I've been following . Question , The Slew Speed can be very fast when using a 16vdcsupply but does this also mean Tracking can be fast as well ? Would you be able to track the ISS ? /SRK
Sorry to hear the HEM27 has been causing you some concerns. Are you able to share more about the issue's you've been having? I've been trying to see if I can get my hands on one to test it out for myself and would love to hear your feedback on it!
@@AstroWithRoRo do you have an email address I could send the info too? I ended up returning it yesterday - I shared my feedback directly with iOptron, don't really want to blast them publicly.
Of course! You should be able to find my email on my about page here: ua-cam.com/users/AstroWithRoRoabout or feel free to message me on my Facebook or Instagram if that's easier.
He Rohan, Just bought the RST 135, its amazing, guiding is fantastic (sub 0.5s exposures is necessary), have a look at the cloudy nights thread on the RST 135 and 135E lots of info there. Looking forward to the results (guiding) on the 9"
Great video. I'm pretty sure Planewave does not make Harmonic Drive mounts - they make direct drive which is completely different. I'm thinking about a Rainbow Astro mount for my C1100. If I can eliminate counterweights it will save space in my small dome.
Thanks for your awesome review! I’ve just received my own RST135E last week and can’t wait to test it out. Just a quick question, is it safe to leave the telescope on the mount when it’s not used? Will it cause any mechanical damage in the long run? Thanks!
I purchased this mount too a little while ago. Still figuring out guiding, Greater Melbourne's missing Spring season isn't helping :) Looking forward to future vids. Just wondering if you're happy with the Jackery 500 and where you purchased it please?
Amazing in depth review. Considering buying this. Would love to see how you can use the mount with a polemaster. Is a camera guide even required with this beauty?
Why are these mounts still using hand controllers ? I suggest it to become driven by smartphone or tablet using direct wifi to your phone/tablet. That would be much easier to control than a hand controller with a myriad of counter intuitive menus. The calculation would be done by the smartphone/tablet that has much more processing power and also it would be possible to point the smartphone towards the sky and tap on your screen (visually much easier to control) so the telescope would automatically move towards the desired object. Something like Sky Safari using the internal GPS-signal, so the data is automatically sent to the scope telling exact time and coordinates (no need for expensive gps-modules or wifi-modules). Maybe this new design would also make it possible (using an extra external gear set holding the harmonic mount) to have a auto calibrating polar alignment by having a built-in optical sensor into the mount (like the Celestron Starsense module) coupled with a rod on this mount with a temporary counter weight so the mount can declinate and rotate horizontally to achieve perfect polar alignment with the telescope mounted. The temporary counter weight would be locked during the calibrating process so there is not stress on the mount during the declination movement (since there is a heavy telescope that would put stress on the axis so you will need the rod + counterweight to counter balance the weight). After automatic polar alignment by the mount and screwing the mount into position the counterweight rod and weight are unlocked and can be removed. This way (automatic) polar alignment can be achieved even during daytime (using a solar filter cap on the polar scope lens) using the sun as a celestial body to polar align, combined with the gps and time data sent from your smartphone/tablet to the mount. Would this be technically possible ?
Honestly i prefer counter weights to balence the strain on the gear drive so no gears are warped. The only way i could think these harmonic gear drive eqs work is high torque
I wondered about the thundering storm .. mystery solved. I have been watching this company from there very initial posts but no substantive reports glad to see you are going to review it. I like alt az mounts but want one that can be als used for eq mode easily. I have the azeq6 , evolution , g11 and a mega old Pentax mount would ideally like to reduce to one mount.
I would have been curious to see the Alt/AZ knobs for polar alignment. Does the rainbow astro ascom mount driver with the encoders, elimate the periodic error? How does a Polemaster or iPolar camera attach? What happens if you need to add weights? (ie. example of how they attach) How much current (at about 13.8v) does it draw on slewing
The encoders get the PE down to +- 2.5" (I plan on testing this one we get some more clear skies). I will also focus on polar alignment, power draw, counterweights & guiding performance in an upcoming video. Unfortunately I don't own a Polemaster so can't show off that attachment. Hopefully all this rain dries up soon!
Great video. When you make your follow-up video showing the backdriving, I would love to see what happens when the counterweight is attached. Would it backdrive the counterweight down and keep the scope from hitting the tripod?
The product itself is made in South Korea however their strain wave gear is manufactured/fabricated in Japan. Their parent company is called Rainbow Robotics which specializes in robotic arms.
So what were your final thoughts on this mount, 8 mos later? I was looking for the follow up video but didn't see anything. I was wondering about PE and tracking.
I am trying to bring together the follow up video on it now, but in short: it performs well with ~0.5" total RMS on the carbon fibre tripod with 2-3s guide exposures. PE matches the spec sheet.
Impressive mount, although its price (about 4 times an Eq6-R Pro?) is out of my pockets reach. The sole fact of not having to deal with balancing and counterweights is awesome.
It's certainly not cheap (especially here in AU), I do hope the price of the technology comes down on the following years if it becomes more widespread in the industry. For me the biggest benefit is the weight savings. I do a lot of public outreach and this set up is around 7kg now compared to the 35kg of my EQ6-R Pro which is much easier to take out and set up.
For me it's all about portability. The combination of compact form factor, lightweight and reasonable accuracy creates a real sweet spot for me. I plan to take this on airline trips on the coming years and do a lot of public outreach where portability is key. You can get much more accurate mounts at this price point but they all are very large and heavy.
Would be nice review of hand control and its screen,specially in cold weather. Rolling text on Celestron hand control, in cold, becoming impossible to read.
It doesn't get overly cold here in Sydney (never below freezing) so that may be hard for me to test, but I'll see what I can do. The screen is generally easier to read than the Celestron & Skywatcher controllers.
oh my....and it comes at the small cost of over 7000 euro.............Not very affordable for an average person. Good review though. How is the ZWO Harmonic Mount AM5 comparing to this?
The AM5 doesn't have the encoder that this does which is why it's quite a bit cheaper. The AM5 mount needs fast guide exposures to keep the guiding accurate, but if you're using a wide field setup or are able to guide at ~1s on your guide cam then the AM5 can work well. I have gone unguided on this mount at 250mm focal length with 5 minute exposures, and it behaves well with 3s exposures with 1.6m focal length.
There must have been a gap in time between recording the first part of the video, and when he recorded the section with the C9.25, so Venus had moved a considerable distance in the sky during the gap in time.
If that software displayed at the end weren't in night mode, might have been able to follow along - even on a laptop in full screen, just could not read it at the low display level of your camera. Otherwise, a bit slow but detailed enough to show setup well. I would ask you to reconsider recording the last piece without the red display of that software. Definitely would never put a 180 mm to 9.5" scope on a CF tripod. Maybe a Losmandy or the Astro-Physics Eagle tripod with the Rainbow Astro adapter.
It's definitely not unproven. It's been in use in manufacturing for decades and PlaneEave uses these in their high end mounts. It's all about implementation. It is expensive though.
Amazing mount! your stability and strong are unbelievable!!! One day I gonna buy one.
Wow, this’s the 1st detail review of strain wave drive mount that I ever found on internet , and it’s so deep in detail on operate , thank you so so much on the video. BTW , it’s pricy now but may be the next generation of the mount style for amateur astro photography lover since the worm gear has been there for decades with no change .
Very nice overview! It definitely looks better thought out overall than my old Crux 140 traveller (with the exception of backdriving, I'll be very interested in seeing how that looks, it sounds scary!). Clear skies!
The backdriving isn't as scary as it sounds, but could cause issues if you're not prepared for it. I hope to have the video out shortly on it after a few more tests.
Great video! Pretty cool and detailed. Do you have the option of using the ASIAIR Plus? Thank you and have a nice day.
Great video! I just got an RST-135 myself, and was wondering how to polar align it efficiently. Your tip to go to the "parking" menu is just what I needed, thanks! Looking forward to seeing more content on this little mount! Cheers
Glad it helped!
Any feedback on damping time at higher magnification(200x and above) for loads in the 30-40lb range? I am curious about a C11 or 10” f5 Newtonian with counterweight attached. Either with this lightweight tripod or berlebach uni 18 tripod.
pretty badass setup
can we use a 8 inch Edge without autoguiding and without counter weights? will it track accurately good enough for imaging deepsky?
I picked up the non encoder 135 and I’ve been thrilled with it! 15 min subs no worries with my Z73 and 294. I’m very interested to see how this goes guiding with a big sct. I’m keen to try mine with a C8 but I don’t have one!
Thanks for the excellently informative vid. Why did you opt for the E version? My understanding is that the non E version guides very well (~0.5 arc second RMS) with multi star guiding and 0,5s guide exposure. The E version can obviously be used unguided for short FL (up to 300-400 mm) and up to ~5 mins exposure but needs to be guided for longer FL, and the E version is easier to guide (longer guiding exposures possible because guiding does not have to fight the large intrinsic PEC) at all FLs. Does this sound like a reasonable summary? Trying to decide between the two which comes down to whether the additional 25%+ cost of the E is worth it. Tending towards the non E version.
Thoughts appreciated. Cheers, Des
I opted for the E so that I didn't have to be aggressive with my guiding. I plan to OAG with the 9.25 and was worried about how well I could capture stars at 0.5s at such a long focal length. As far as I have gathered you are correct with your thoughts on the E vs non-E. If you are able to get good sub second exposure times than the non-E can save you a good amount of money.
Hi RoRo,
I plan to purchase (well, to be waitlisted with deposit) TEC APO140FL F/7...
Is RST-135 good enough for the telescope for visual use only?
I will be traveling with the scope + mount maybe once a month, also plan to install metal/concrete post in my backyard.
Just visual, no photography....
Will Appreciate your input, thanks!!!
Invaluable. Many thanks!
Very nice Review of a Product I've been following . Question , The Slew Speed can be very fast when using a 16vdcsupply but does this also mean Tracking can be fast as well ? Would you be able to track the ISS ? /SRK
I haven't tried it yet, but I would assume that tracking software can use the faster slew speeds for tracking yes.
Great video RoRo! I have been struggling with a new ioptron HEM27 for the last month...so wish I'd seen this as an option before I purchased it!!
Sorry to hear the HEM27 has been causing you some concerns. Are you able to share more about the issue's you've been having? I've been trying to see if I can get my hands on one to test it out for myself and would love to hear your feedback on it!
@@AstroWithRoRo do you have an email address I could send the info too? I ended up returning it yesterday - I shared my feedback directly with iOptron, don't really want to blast them publicly.
Of course! You should be able to find my email on my about page here: ua-cam.com/users/AstroWithRoRoabout or feel free to message me on my Facebook or Instagram if that's easier.
He Rohan, Just bought the RST 135, its amazing, guiding is fantastic (sub 0.5s exposures is necessary), have a look at the cloudy nights thread on the RST 135 and 135E lots of info there. Looking forward to the results (guiding) on the 9"
Do you have yet the links to buy pier and tripod? Thank you.
This is brilliant. can you please share the tripod and dovetail saddle (red and gold colour) links to purchase. thanks
Tripod is the INNOREL RT90C. Saddle: www.aliexpress.com/item/32266054846.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.64.65591802MhG0hq
Great video. I'm pretty sure Planewave does not make Harmonic Drive mounts - they make direct drive which is completely different. I'm thinking about a Rainbow Astro mount for my C1100. If I can eliminate counterweights it will save space in my small dome.
Yes I believe I had the wrong information about PlaneWave and you are correct.
Thanks for your awesome review! I’ve just received my own RST135E last week and can’t wait to test it out. Just a quick question, is it safe to leave the telescope on the mount when it’s not used? Will it cause any mechanical damage in the long run? Thanks!
Can you provide a link for the Alie express saddle? That would be useful.
I purchased this mount too a little while ago. Still figuring out guiding, Greater Melbourne's missing Spring season isn't helping :) Looking forward to future vids. Just wondering if you're happy with the Jackery 500 and where you purchased it please?
Fantastic. Thanks.
The Sharpstar MK III is a harmonic drive mount. By the way the MKIII is about half the price and has a higher payload capacity.
Amazing in depth review.
Considering buying this. Would love to see how you can use the mount with a polemaster. Is a camera guide even required with this beauty?
Well done.
Are there adapters to use it on a steel legged tripod?
Why are these mounts still using hand controllers ? I suggest it to become driven by smartphone or tablet using direct wifi to your phone/tablet. That would be much easier to control than a hand controller with a myriad of counter intuitive menus. The calculation would be done by the smartphone/tablet that has much more processing power and also it would be possible to point the smartphone towards the sky and tap on your screen (visually much easier to control) so the telescope would automatically move towards the desired object. Something like Sky Safari using the internal GPS-signal, so the data is automatically sent to the scope telling exact time and coordinates (no need for expensive gps-modules or wifi-modules). Maybe this new design would also make it possible (using an extra external gear set holding the harmonic mount) to have a auto calibrating polar alignment by having a built-in optical sensor into the mount (like the Celestron Starsense module) coupled with a rod on this mount with a temporary counter weight so the mount can declinate and rotate horizontally to achieve perfect polar alignment with the telescope mounted. The temporary counter weight would be locked during the calibrating process so there is not stress on the mount during the declination movement (since there is a heavy telescope that would put stress on the axis so you will need the rod + counterweight to counter balance the weight). After automatic polar alignment by the mount and screwing the mount into position the counterweight rod and weight are unlocked and can be removed. This way (automatic) polar alignment can be achieved even during daytime (using a solar filter cap on the polar scope lens) using the sun as a celestial body to polar align, combined with the gps and time data sent from your smartphone/tablet to the mount. Would this be technically possible ?
Honestly i prefer counter weights to balence the strain on the gear drive so no gears are warped.
The only way i could think these harmonic gear drive eqs work is high torque
Could you provide specifics on the dovetail plate?
ZWO is also launching a harmonic mount. Oh sharpstar as well.
I wondered about the thundering storm .. mystery solved. I have been watching this company from there very initial posts but no substantive reports glad to see you are going to review it. I like alt az mounts but want one that can be als used for eq mode easily. I have the azeq6 , evolution , g11 and a mega old Pentax mount would ideally like to reduce to one mount.
I would have been curious to see the Alt/AZ knobs for polar alignment. Does the rainbow astro ascom mount driver with the encoders, elimate the periodic error? How does a Polemaster or iPolar camera attach? What happens if you need to add weights? (ie. example of how they attach) How much current (at about 13.8v) does it draw on slewing
The encoders get the PE down to +- 2.5" (I plan on testing this one we get some more clear skies). I will also focus on polar alignment, power draw, counterweights & guiding performance in an upcoming video. Unfortunately I don't own a Polemaster so can't show off that attachment. Hopefully all this rain dries up soon!
Saw your video on backdriving as well...will you be making a video discussing the performance of the mount any time soon?
I will, it's already in the works but got a surprise piece of kit loaned to me that I had to fit in a video about.
Great video. When you make your follow-up video showing the backdriving, I would love to see what happens when the counterweight is attached. Would it backdrive the counterweight down and keep the scope from hitting the tripod?
Will do, the video should be out very soon.
Hello. Very interesting video. I have subbed to your channel. I have a question, is this mount made in Korea or Japan?
The product itself is made in South Korea however their strain wave gear is manufactured/fabricated in Japan.
Their parent company is called Rainbow Robotics which specializes in robotic arms.
So what were your final thoughts on this mount, 8 mos later? I was looking for the follow up video but didn't see anything.
I was wondering about PE and tracking.
I am trying to bring together the follow up video on it now, but in short: it performs well with ~0.5" total RMS on the carbon fibre tripod with 2-3s guide exposures. PE matches the spec sheet.
Impressive mount, although its price (about 4 times an Eq6-R Pro?) is out of my pockets reach. The sole fact of not having to deal with balancing and counterweights is awesome.
It's certainly not cheap (especially here in AU), I do hope the price of the technology comes down on the following years if it becomes more widespread in the industry. For me the biggest benefit is the weight savings. I do a lot of public outreach and this set up is around 7kg now compared to the 35kg of my EQ6-R Pro which is much easier to take out and set up.
@@AstroWithRoRo I totally agree, I think this technology will (hopefully) become mainstream in a few years
Please do more review of RST 135e. :)
Thanks Louis, I have at least 2 more videos on the way with it :)
@@AstroWithRoRo May I have the link to your saddle? It looks nice.
It was this one: www.aliexpress.com/item/32266054846.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.1.21d45099VDvWVI
Hi Roro, what is the best RMS you got using this mount?
The best I’ve had with the 135E is 0.25” total RMS. RA was 0.16” and Dec was 0.19”.
Great video and beautiful mount but too expensive for me. I'd like to see its accuracy without any guide. Many thanks
This is 5k, ZWO is 2K how much better can I really be?
I like the mount but for the price, personally, I would've gone with an Avalon mount. Thanks for sharing.
so why the upgrade? harmonic drive curiosity? if it was weight, figured you wouldve landed on the cem70 at a little cheaper?
For me it's all about portability. The combination of compact form factor, lightweight and reasonable accuracy creates a real sweet spot for me. I plan to take this on airline trips on the coming years and do a lot of public outreach where portability is key. You can get much more accurate mounts at this price point but they all are very large and heavy.
Would be nice review of hand control and its screen,specially in cold weather. Rolling text on Celestron hand control, in cold, becoming impossible to read.
It doesn't get overly cold here in Sydney (never below freezing) so that may be hard for me to test, but I'll see what I can do. The screen is generally easier to read than the Celestron & Skywatcher controllers.
oh my....and it comes at the small cost of over 7000 euro.............Not very affordable for an average person. Good review though. How is the ZWO Harmonic Mount AM5 comparing to this?
The AM5 doesn't have the encoder that this does which is why it's quite a bit cheaper. The AM5 mount needs fast guide exposures to keep the guiding accurate, but if you're using a wide field setup or are able to guide at ~1s on your guide cam then the AM5 can work well. I have gone unguided on this mount at 250mm focal length with 5 minute exposures, and it behaves well with 3s exposures with 1.6m focal length.
Lol. I just ordered an Avalon m-zero from Testar here in Sydney - I’m likely the reason for the bad weather….
Congrats! I hear a lot of great things about that mount!
@@AstroWithRoRo thx! Still another week or two until it arrives. I’m putting a little WO71GT on it, but it can go as heavy as a RASA8!
@@SydneyDunk Please let me know how you get on with it!
Both telescopes were pointing at different directions towards venus.
There must have been a gap in time between recording the first part of the video, and when he recorded the section with the C9.25, so Venus had moved a considerable distance in the sky during the gap in time.
If that software displayed at the end weren't in night mode, might have been able to follow along - even on a laptop in full screen, just could not read it at the low display level of your camera. Otherwise, a bit slow but detailed enough to show setup well. I would ask you to reconsider recording the last piece without the red display of that software. Definitely would never put a 180 mm to 9.5" scope on a CF tripod. Maybe a Losmandy or the Astro-Physics Eagle tripod with the Rainbow Astro adapter.
Over $5000😮
All this software is far from practical for visual use.
No thank you to Rainbow Astro. Unproven technology and too expensive.
new technology is nothing to be feared friend :) those horseless carriages worked out ok, maybe this will too :P
It's definitely not unproven. It's been in use in manufacturing for decades and PlaneEave uses these in their high end mounts. It's all about implementation. It is expensive though.
Cool review! Have you seen that Sharpstar will come up with a similar mount, too? The market for these mounts seems to be growing ;-)
Yes, it does. But content of my wallet shrinks, and a chance to get one of them, too.
I have, the payload capacity of the SharpCap one seems higher too. I imagine the cost will be substantial (but hope it is not!)