Why I Won't Be Investing in the Rottefella Xplore Binding System (yet?)

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  • Опубліковано 1 гру 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 43

  • @JaredManninen
    @JaredManninen  10 місяців тому

    The comment disappeared before I could respond to it but the person who posted it on 1/17/24 mentioned that there has, in fact, been a mounting jig for the Rottefella Xplore Binding system available since the binding's inception. I honestly wasn't aware of that so I did a quick online search this morning (1/18/24) and found one available for purchase at a cost of $400. That mounting jig comes with adapters for mounting many other xc ski bindings, as well, so it would be worth the price if you planned to mount bindings with any sort of regularity. However, years ago I inherited (from an old job) an NNN/NNN BC mounting jig and, as much as I'd like to have the ability to mount Xplore bindings with a jig, I'm not interested in spending $400 on something that would mostly be redundant for me. I mount a number of NNN/NNN BC bindings for myself, friends, and friends of friends, but I just don't believe that I'd end up mounting enough Xplore bindings to justify the investment. Anyway, if I do ever run across an inexpensive jig for the Xplore binding system I probably will buy it just to have because, again, I absolutely hate mounting bindings without one 😀

  • @claudebourgeois2283
    @claudebourgeois2283 9 днів тому +1

    Still using my 75 mm Rottefella Super Telemark on my Rossi BC 65 and loving it. No need for a change. I have three pairs of the same boots. I ordered a new pair recently, for use maybe in the next 5-10 years, just in case I can't find them in the future.

    • @JaredManninen
      @JaredManninen  8 днів тому +1

      I've done the same thing with a lot of outdoor gear -- by multiples in case I can't find them in the future :) I get so frustrated when companies discontinue certain models (that I love) simply because they're moving on to new stuff. But, ultimately, it's their business and if it keeps them in business it's hard to fault them.
      I do love the availability of so many different brands/styles of 75mm boots, and their relatively lower costs.
      Thanks so much for tuning in, and offering your feedback. I appreciate it!

  • @Euronasa
    @Euronasa 8 місяців тому +1

    Yeah same here. I even primarily use the even more obsolete Rottefella Riva 3 binding. Works great for me. Never had any issues with it. Keep an extra cable with me at long trips. Great video!

    • @JaredManninen
      @JaredManninen  8 місяців тому +1

      Thanks for the kind words, and nice feedback! I appreciate it :) I think with the terrain that I ski (more rolling) and my style/approach (emphasis on striding), NNN BC and a simple 3-pin is just fine. Thanks again for tuning in, and for contributing to the conversation!

  • @starmountpictures
    @starmountpictures 11 місяців тому +3

    I have Xplore and Alpina boots they are awesome. Yeah they are expensive, and on the flats not different than NNNBC. But on rolling terrain - really good!

    • @JaredManninen
      @JaredManninen  11 місяців тому

      That is some of the feedback that I've been hearing, making it a compelling argument to acquire them. But one of the main factors right now is money and I've spent way too much this fall already. haha. Not just on gear, though, mostly house projects and other life stuff :)

  • @Robert-to9zv
    @Robert-to9zv 5 місяців тому +1

    Wonderful rationale and philosophy. Thanks so much!

    • @JaredManninen
      @JaredManninen  5 місяців тому

      Thank you for the feedback, Robert. I appreciate it 🤗

  • @jasonwooden
    @jasonwooden 11 місяців тому +2

    I'd feel a lot better about the longevity/usefulness of Xplore if they had just used a standard Dynafit tech toe instead of reinventing the 2-pin binding. Could have been "NTN-lite", but they didn't even think to spec a groove in the heel for a cable throw if they wanted to offer some kind of "Xplore-TTS" mash-up in the future for hardcore XCD.
    Swing-and-a-miss.
    Oh, the one thing Xplore can do better than NNN-BC? No toe-bar icing.

    • @JaredManninen
      @JaredManninen  11 місяців тому

      Interesting points! I'm not really familiar with a lot of the AT-oriented gear/bindings so I don't know that I can contribute much to what you say. But I like the idea of a more standardized approach (i.e. not reinventing the wheel) to binding systems. You're probably familiar with the excessive amount of regular xc ski bindings over the decades. And now standard nnn (which has been around for 20+ years!) is finally looking to be the industry standard. haha.
      I guess there wouldn't be much toe-bar icing with the Xplore system since it doesn't, well, have a toe bar ;)
      Thanks for watching, and for contributing to the conversation. I appreciate it!

  • @timlehman5867
    @timlehman5867 11 місяців тому +1

    Hey Jared, happy new year and thanks for all of your awesome content on cross country skiing. I’m relatively new to the sport and looking more towards flat and gradual slope backcountry skiing outside the Denver area. I understand you already have a lot of gear with NNN BC bindings and so switching over to the Xplore system is not practical/worthwhile. Since I have no gear at this point, would you recommend I look at the Xplore binding system or just stick with the tried and true NNN BC binding system?
    Thanks again!

    • @JaredManninen
      @JaredManninen  11 місяців тому

      Hey Tim! Thanks for watching and for reaching out 🤗
      Based on what you plan to do (low angle, rolling hills, flatter terrain), I would just recommend NNN BC. There are tons of options for boots, it's super universal, less expensive, great for diagonal striding, and good enough for rolling terrain.
      Obviously, this will be your $$$ and decision, but that's what I would recommend. And there would be nothing wrong with getting the Xplore system on a more downhill oriented backcountry xc ski later. I use NNN BC and 3-pin, for example. So i don't think you'd ever felt like you wasted your money on NNN BC.
      Hope that helps. Let me know if you have other questions or clarification on anything I've said. Thanks again for tuning in!

  • @dmitrymelnik8296
    @dmitrymelnik8296 10 місяців тому +1

    Thanks for the video. My biggest objection to Xplore is that they inserted spring-loaded moving pin into the boot. if it freezes, it is the hardest place to get moving. ( For example, in the past Dynafit had problems with freezing of the cable that was running through their TLT7 boot to the point that they came up with a new boot next season). From what I saw in various reviews is that it really adds nothing to the NNN-BC, but costs close to AT system (you perhaps can find equally expensive set in after-season sales). Also, I suspect that the boot sole stiffness can be actually less than in NNN-BC, where a solid pin runs through the toe. As you said there is really nothing there that would make me ditch my quiver for these.

    • @JaredManninen
      @JaredManninen  10 місяців тому

      Hey Dmitry,
      Thanks for the feedback, and for contributing to the conversation! It's hard for me to justify paying those prices, as well. That, and it seems like there are a lot more moving parts involved with the Xplore bindings system. I just like the NNN BC platform because it's relatively simple, there's a ton of support for it (in the form of multiple boots), and it mirrors the more traditional NNN striding experience. There's no perfect system, and I appreciate any/all innovation, but I'm definitely sticking to NNN BC for the foreseeable future.
      Again, thanks for tuning in!

    • @jonfraczak
      @jonfraczak 8 місяців тому

      The shoe is part of what makes the Xplore a much better solution than any other backcountry cross country binding system. It's more stable and for active Telemark skiing, not just flat cross country it's superb. I've used the system in alpine ski resorts on and off piste skiing. Magic. The 3-pin with cable comes close, but the NNN BC is nowhere close ... basically useless.

    • @JaredManninen
      @JaredManninen  8 місяців тому

      ​@@jonfraczak Yeah, well, that's just like, your opinion, man. haha. I would hardly consider NNN BC useless, particularly with regard to my approach to backcountry xc skiing which is more oriented toward diagonal striding (versus dedicated downhilling). I could totally see how the Xplore system would be appropriate for yo-yo skiing up and down all day long, but I seldom do that. I'm usually logging a few flat and rolling miles (in addition to steeper sections), which is an ideal scenario for NNN BC. And unless the snow is endless breakable crust, either the 3-pin or NNN BC suits me just fine. I appreciate the feedback, but I just can't justify sinking that much money into a completely new setup.

  • @ecphotographer
    @ecphotographer 11 місяців тому +1

    Do you buy your skis on discount somewhere or does your dealer charge you extra for mounting bindings?

    • @JaredManninen
      @JaredManninen  11 місяців тому +1

      Hey EC!
      I tend to buy my skis and other gear wherever I can find a good deal. Often, it's at the tail end of the season when stuff is on clearance or at least offered at steeper discounted prices. As I mentioned in this video, I like having an abundance of things that work for me on reserve because you never know when a manufacturer is going to discontinue an item. I used to work at a backpacking shop years ago and we sold a particular winter boot that I really liked, so I bought two pair of them. Sure enough, Salmonon no longer makes that style of boots. So I've been holding on tight to them for years. haha. I also find that by having a couple sets of whatever, that I can make everything last a little longer because I'm not wearing the items in question into threads or into the dirt. Admittedly, it's probably more of a perception that they last longer since their actual time of use is probably the same. But that time of use is spread out over the long-term rather than using the same pair of boots every day throughout a winter, for example.
      As far as mounting bindings go, I just do it myself. But I also do it at work as part of my winter job, so I have a lot of experience mounting xc ski bindings. That, and I've performed lots of other ski/binding/pole maintenance over the years.

  • @paulblichmann2791
    @paulblichmann2791 11 місяців тому +1

    If you really did want more DH orientation in an NNN BC binding, there's gotta be a bigger and or stiffer toe "eraser" block to put in (what is that part called?)

    • @JaredManninen
      @JaredManninen  11 місяців тому

      Hey Paul!
      As far as I know, NNN BC doesn't have any different stiffness bumpers. I think it's just the same bumper that they use for everything. But, honestly, it always seems fine to me. And then the idea of having to swap those bumpers out everytime you want a different skiing experience just seems like extra work to me. haha.
      I can be really lazy when it comes to being out in the field. Basically, I don't want to have to do anything to my skis except to maybe add some extra glide wax to the grip zone in the event that the snow is excessively sticking to it, or to just take off the skis and carry them when the snow isn't favorable for skiing :)

    • @arnopr
      @arnopr 11 місяців тому +1

      There is actually a stiffer block, it looks the same but red. We use these for Nordic ice skating. No idea how useful for skiing

    • @JaredManninen
      @JaredManninen  11 місяців тому +1

      ​@@arnoprThat's a great point! I do believe I have seen those red bumpers on some of the nordic ice skating videos that I've watched before.
      That said, I don't think a stiffer bumper is a great option for classic diagonal striding as I think more about it. And this isn't just for your your benefit, but this whole thread. So don't think I'm singling you out or anything :) I'm just replying to your comment... Anyway, you will often find slightly stiffer bumpers on skate skis compared to classic skis, but that's a aspect of function (like with the nordic ice skates). For skate skiing a slightly better "connection" with less ski swing is more appropriate, But for classic skiing you want a softer rubber bumper to let the ski swing free and natural as you unweight it (while gliding on the other ski). As my brain starts to dig into the archives, I actually recall now that I had this same experience with a used pair of classic skis years ago (which is one reason I usually advise against buying used - you never know what you're getting). Essentially, the binding on the skis were for a skate ski setup, but I didn't realize that at first and couldn't figure out why the ski was behaving so oddly when I was striding. It was kind of like the ski was stuck to my foot and wouldn't just hang naturally while striding. Anyway, I never could find a softer bumper for those skis so I just got rid of them. They were really old, though, so I think I just tossed them.
      Thanks for contributing to the conversation. I really appreciate it :)

  • @gradywright
    @gradywright 11 місяців тому +1

    Sound logic. Stick with equipment that works. It's a very individual consideration. I've spent a lot of money on NNNBC and 3pin boots that people love but just don't work for me, and there's some options that just plain don't fit or are not available in my size. The only reason I ended up with xplore is because with the release of this system for the first time came a lot of boots that fit me really well. I will say I don't understand why the bindings are so much more expensive but there have been a lot of discounted sales on the system. So far I'm very happy with it. But if anyone were to ask me for recommendations (they're not) I would just say find a boot that fits well and don't stress about the system.

    • @JaredManninen
      @JaredManninen  11 місяців тому

      That's a bummer that you haven't been able to find good fitting boots in the NNN BC variety. But now that you mention it, that's kind of why I'm content with sticking put with NNN BC and basic 3-pins. All of my boots fit great! That's also why I have so many boots, because Fischer seems to accommodate my wide feet really well so I just make sure I have multiples in case I wear one set out or one blows up.
      I suspect that binding price has to do with the fact that they're new and not as easy to find. Maybe right now they're just trying to capitalize on the relative scarcity of them, and once they become more mainstream the prices will drop. Hopefully, anyway.
      Yes, comfortable boots is the key to having fun on xc skis of all variety! Like you said, as long as they fit well who cares the actual system :)
      Thanks for watching, and for contributing to the conversation!

  • @paulblichmann2791
    @paulblichmann2791 11 місяців тому +1

    Hear hear! I'm still on SNS. The secret is that the lettering on tounge of Salomon boots wears off nearly insantly. So I can spot boots that are nearly NOS.

    • @JaredManninen
      @JaredManninen  11 місяців тому

      Excellent! I appreciate how Salomon actually honors some of their legacy binding systems by still selling compatible boots. Although it's hard to find Profil boots nowadays :) Funny how certain details of some gear delineates it from other gear.

  • @thedogoftears
    @thedogoftears 11 місяців тому +1

    you forgot to mention-- the binding is 2.5x the cost of NNN-BC and the boots are typically 20-30% more expensive than similar BC and 3-pin soft boots. it is fun, however, to have such a stiff soled soft boot setup. it's a fun investment, but if i were doing mostly kick and glide on flats or low angled rollers, not worth it. very much worth it if you are mixing in steeper slopes and also for longer tours due to it's lighter weight. i worry it won't catch on enough and all the gear and support will be gone in a few years. i wish i could try more of the boots, but they're expensive!!

    • @JaredManninen
      @JaredManninen  11 місяців тому

      Great points! Thanks for giving some real-life feedback. The cost is definitely up there. Perhaps once more manufacturers and options are available, the price of boots will drop. But, like you said, for kick and glide applications is it really worth it to invest in this newer system? For me, the answer is clearly "no." However, that doesn't mean that I don't appreciate the innovation. But like one of the previous commenters made on this video, it is interesting that the same innovation hasn't gone into making similar boots for the NNN BC and 3-pin systems. Maybe there are ultra-light 3-pin boots, I guess, but I'm not familiar with them.
      Again, thanks so much for tuning in, and for contributing to the conversation!

  • @williamabenejr8516
    @williamabenejr8516 11 місяців тому +1

    The Xplore binding sure looks nice and user friendly. One of the biggest allures for this system is how all the boot manufacturers have fallen all over themselves to create new lightweight boots using modern techniques. Meanwhile Rottefella simultaneously quietly released their 3 pin cable binding but unfortunately we are not seeing the use of advanced technology for lightweight but firm 3 pin boots. The reason i decided against Xplore is without a heel cable, to me it competes with NNNBC as an XCd binding whereas the 3 pin cable bindings are more xcD (ability to be more downhill focused). 75mm is more versatile with the ability to use anything from a lightweight leather boot all the way up the plastic boot spectrum. Now c'mon Crispi make me an 700-800 gram 3 pin boot!

    • @JaredManninen
      @JaredManninen  11 місяців тому

      Hey William!
      Interesting. I hadn't even heard of the newer Rottefella 3-pin cable. I just looked it up and they look interesting! Basically just looks like they're regular basic 3-pin with a cable attached. I appreciate that simplicity. I wonder if I could just find a cable to attach to my existing Super Tele bindings? It appears that there's a slot on either side ready to accept one. Then, again, this might be a rabbit hole for another day. Haha!
      I've heard that there aren't a ton of different boot models yet for the Xplore, but what's out there is top-notch. Like you said, lightweight yet sturdy. It would be nice if they did put some more effort into a similar boot for NNN BC. Honestly, though, I just got some newer Fischer lace-up NNN BC boots and I love them. They're not super heavy but they feel relatively stiff. Granted I've only used them in thin coverage scenarios so far, but they've been very good.
      The 75mm/3-pin range is definitely vast. I do like how there are so many options and they won't be going out of style any time soon.
      Thanks as always for tuning in, and for contributing to the conversation. I appreciate your feedback :)

  • @ck-4203
    @ck-4203 9 місяців тому +1

    I was told by a shop that Excursion 88 or a replacement will be back next year. This is a transition year for Fischer and it has something to do with partnership with Atomic and perhaps that they were made in Ukraine.

    • @JaredManninen
      @JaredManninen  9 місяців тому

      I actually heard that at least once, as well, after making this video. I sure hope that's true because I've come to find that the Excursion 88s are my most versatile ski. And I'd hate for something to happen to them (before I can get another pair)! Thanks for the heads-up :)

  • @ck-4203
    @ck-4203 9 місяців тому +1

    Dont see why xplore would offer more control than nnn-bc magnum if the boots are equivalent. I could see why less reliable. Control is also a function of strength balance, skill and technique 😅

    • @JaredManninen
      @JaredManninen  9 місяців тому

      Yeah, I'm of the belief that with the proper skill and technique you can pretty much accomplish anything within reason. And I don't believe it's unreasonable to do some fun downhilling technique with NNN BC bindings ;)

  • @ChristopherCostigan-p4x
    @ChristopherCostigan-p4x 10 місяців тому

    The jig has been out since its inception.

    • @JaredManninen
      @JaredManninen  10 місяців тому

      This may be a duplicate comment. I think something happened when you first posted it, where it initially disappeared for some reason.

  • @TheCaptainA
    @TheCaptainA 11 місяців тому +1

    I think you should anyway 😉

    • @JaredManninen
      @JaredManninen  11 місяців тому

      Haha! You're probably right, but I've spent a lot of money already this fall. Not necessarily just on gear, but life stuff :)

  • @nmiw
    @nmiw 8 місяців тому

    With respect ~ I don't know the value of your video if the reason you are not getting the Xplore is because already have other equipment.

    • @JaredManninen
      @JaredManninen  8 місяців тому

      I appreciate the feedback, and agree that I don't provide a traditional review on the pros/cons of the Rottefella Xplore binding system in this video. However, I've been asked enough about the newer system and that's my answer -- there's no need to invest in it because what's currently available/what I have works just fine (NNN BC, 3-pin).
      The value in that position is that I give you (and anyone else watching this video) the permission to save yourself $1,500+ on an entirely new xc ski system, particularly if you're already running NNN BC/3-pin. There are lots of people who own those legacy binding systems wondering whether or not they should "upgrade" to the Xplore system. So all I'm saying is that if you have money to burn, go for it. Otherwise, stick with what you have and invest more in technique than new gear.

  • @ChristopherCostigan-p4x
    @ChristopherCostigan-p4x 10 місяців тому +1

    The jig has been out since its inception.

    • @JaredManninen
      @JaredManninen  10 місяців тому

      I tried to reply to your comment earlier, but for some reason it disappeared for a day or two. So I just pinned a response to the top of this comments. I did see that there is a jig after you mentioned it, but it looks pretty expensive and not something I'd want to invest in for how little I'd use it. Read my pinned comment for more of a response. Thanks for watching, though, and for giving me the heads up about the jig :)