So... basically, rugby union could have been huge in not only England but Australia and America, if the initial organizers behind it weren't such stingy bastards and turned the game pro much earlier. Great, well that's just great
David Caro as an American who’s grown into loving rugby, the game could have easily today be one of the most popular sports in this country. I need to do more research, but what I’ve learned is that in the earlier days of America’s history, and up until about the 1890s, rugby was the most popular sport in almost every state. American football only gained traction in the upper Midwest (Wisconsin, Minnesota, Illinois, Michigan etc). There are a few other factors that made American football more popular than rugby. One reason is that football players were being paid to play, whereas rugby players only played simply for the love of the game. So that’s where we’re at now trying to grow the sport. Glad to have MLR and it will continue to grow. Slowly but surely.
@@erickofspirityeah from my research thats basically how I understand it from my research. Both American football and rugby union were popular back in the day , with rugby more popular on the coast and gridiron more pop in the middle states. A combo of football becoming professional and the invention of the forward pass is what surged football ahead in popularity the USA
Rusty Richardson yeah, there was no real difference between rugby union and the gridiron game. It wasn’t until about 1905 that the gridiron game legalized the forward pass. This is just my opinion, but I don’t believe that the forward pass is what made American football more popular. In my opinion, it’s the effect of American football becoming a professional sport, where players get paid. And it can’t help but make you wonder how different rugby union could have been if they made the sport professional a lot sooner.
Im a Zimbabwean based in the USA and have played and followed union all my life and i began watching League 12 years ago. Currently league is my favorite and i have grown to love it more than union. If you are any rugby fan if you kick ignorance out the window and take the time to watch some rugby league the game will grow on you. League has also been growing amoung other young black zimbabwean and south african rugby players and i feel the game is just a lot better suited to us than union. Same thing for Polynesians where a few months ago Charles Piutau stated that there are mass defections of kids switching to League in Tonga because of the success of the Tongan rugby league national team. To me this makes a lot of sense because League has more integrity and inclusion than union. Pacific Island countries have been treated horribly by rugby union administrators with their players being poached or denied from playing world cups and also not getting the same equal votes as other unions. The talent on the Tongan rugby league team is unbelievable compared to the union team. Also they just got Israel Folau to add to their many star players whereas in union he's the sort of talent they wouldnt see on their team becuase they end up playing for the all blacks or Wallabies. In the USA im also carefully watching the ratings of MLR compared to Toronto Wolfpacks rugby league club. I truely believe north america is better suited to League and if you look at the last 2-3 seasons of MLR no team has come close to the sort of attendances that the Wolfpack get to their games to show you that its got to be the simpler rules of league that engage north american fans better.
I am a South African, who grew up in Belgium (so barely rugby there though), so obviously I am more into union, however I started watching the NRL after the RLWC 2017 where I was fascinated by the Tongan RL team. However there are 2 things you mention which I cannot fully agree with. 1) I agree that union has not been inclusive enough for the Pacific Island countries, which often leads to Polynesians playing for not only NZ, Aus (often the country they grew up in, so fair enough), but also France, England... So I feel like there should be stricter rules. In league, it seems that players can just change from representative country whenever they want. Like Jason Taumalolo (my favorite player btw) who played for NZ just months before the world cup where he would play for Tonga. Or Andrew Fifita, who played for Australia and now Tonga, but still plays with the indigenous All-Stars and NSW state of origin team. So I like that in League, small island countries can be powerhouses, however players should make a choice, and not switch every time they feel like it. 2) Toronto wolfpack has not played a Super League game in Toronto yet, and have no Canadian in their team, so apart from a Canadian name, it's not Canadian what so ever
@@95VJay You bring up a very interesting point about switching national allegiances. Coming from a football and rugby union background i was 1st uncomfortable with it but now i have grown to fully understand and accept the unique national fluidity that rugby league has created using heritage for its international game. Without this fluidity talent would just be sitting at home during international matches and tournaments and leaving NZ and Australia stacked to give you a predictable product. One of the biggest reasons for this is to create parity in international rugby league. Just like with rugby union rugby league admins know that they need to use international rugby to promote the game globally which so far is succeeding when you look at the growth in popularity of the game in the pacific. With Tonga, NZ, Australia and PNG rugby league now has more powerful national teams on that side of the planet compared to union.
@@95VJay Oh and just a small correction. Only those that represent Australia are allowed for Origin selection so Andrew Fifita has not been selected for the Blues since switching. State of Origin is another big reason why you also have this fluidity. Every kid in NSW and Queensland dreams of playing Origin regardless their race so at some point in their careers they would want to achieve that. Tavita Pangai Junior is a great example of someone who could very soon switch his allegiance from Tonga to Australia so he could experience origin. Without this national fluidity the pacific islands would lose a hell lot of talent
I’m a dual coder who’s also a Yank. I love both codes. As sports go they are both massively underrated. It’s silly to squabble between the two. However; as an American we don’t have the class distinction that the English have. I’ll watch a majority of the Rugby Union World Cup games and saw every single RL World Cup game in 2017. I spend about $500 a year in apps to buy both codes. I watch about 2-3 League game and 1-2 Union games a week. Great video dude.
Rugby union has a dark past, which many including this video maker do not wish to discuss. Racism and class prejudice, to name a couple and banning league in many countries due to some socialist ties. Rugby league is both Progressive on and off the field.
@@thomastimms88 I heard about these stories. I'm American and I've been following both codes for almost 10 years but I prefer League due to their progressive thinking. Rugby union has a very dark history and that's how it gotten worldwide recognition due to corruption. People think RU is a worldwide sport and it's nowhere near there and never will be.
@Alfa&Omega 00000 League was banned from France for several years until 1944. After the war, the sport gained popularity, but fans were not allowed to say rugby a xiii. They were allowed to call the sport Jeu a XIII until 1991 but it started in 1949. Despite this, the sport was covered very well in the media until the early 80's after a ugly brawl during a championship final which forced the game to be abandoned. French RL lost a lot of sponsors after the incident.
@@aboriginalbrotha9947 Hate to break it to you lad but Rugby has been a global sport for some time and continues to grow, while league doesn't exist outside of two Australian states. The reality is that League is not only a niche sport but effectively non-existent.
I grew up with rugby league in Sydney. It's the game I prefer. I also like union, but I wish there were less penalties. I agree with many of the comments on this page about the Aussie NRL league competition being the premier 'rugby' tournament in the world. I know union is played in more countries, but that's due to its long history of amateurism. League is a professional game which has prospered in places which have the financial depth to make it work. Excellent video, by the way. I learned some things I didn't know. As per your last comment...if the laws of union were as simple to understand as league...then union would start to look more like league, I suppose.
I am currently in discussing using the division of rugby codes as a way to show class consciousness in early 19th-late 20th century Britain as my dissertation for my final year! (History student)
American here. Union was shown on tv here in the early 2000s on Fox Soccer Plus with the Celtic League and Tri-Nations. Around 2010 FSP started showing NRL, State of Origin, and Super League instead. In the last two years the Gallagher Premiership, Guinness Pro 14, and Six Nations started being shown Stateside on various channels. So if you want to see both codes of rugby you can. I enjoy both codes because of how different they are from each other.
Great comment about the rugby union Yorkshire Cup.Before 1895 and the breakaway,the union Yorkshire Cup drew bigger attendances than the F A Cup.Wakefield Trinity RFC in particular were great in it.
Great video, in 2020 after New Zealand finished its super rugby comp they had a North island vs South Island similar to state of origin. They definitely should bring that back to help promote the game and get the players more recognition.
Australian Rugby League is a lot stronger than any of the best rugby union countries by far. NZ rugby i would say is rugby unions best chance of getting anywhere close to the quality that the Roos can provide
Exactly bro, the NRL is the best rugby comp in either code. I say Super League is the second due to iconic clubs like Wigan, St. Helens, and Leeds. None of the rugby union competitions aren't as good as the two and nor popular as the two. Union only really had a rich history in international level. Club rugby union don't have a rich history except for France when the smaller towns were a whole lot stronger than teams like Toulouse and other big names. That was when both union and league were pretty popular in France until the early 80's when a ugly brawl broke out during a rugby league championship final. That match was abandoned and France rugby league lost a lot of sponsorships which pretty much killed the sport popularity in the country. League is still popular in France, but it has issues in coverage and sponsorships because the majority of them switched to union after the incident.
@@aboriginalbrotha9947 Its a shame for French Rugby league because just like with NZ rugby league there were moments in their history where the game was very close to becoming mainstream in those countries. But with NZ rugby league i reckon that can still happen. NZ rugbys failure to create an engaging domestic product could hit them hard especially when you are up against the NRL as well as their relationship with the pacifika population..
@@tinasherusike7458 Exactly bro. Lack of opportunities for NZ rugby union players will get them poached by NRL scouts. Union in the NH is in pretty good shape because they know how to run their domestic competitions especially in France even the second tier are making revenue. A lot of SH players go to the NH to make more money or they switch to league. RU in the Southern Hemisphere is in very bad shape and that's why South Africa is getting ready to move to the Six Nations in the next few years.
when you look at the sales of NRL merchandise in NZ compared to other rugby union club teams outside of NZ that should be concerning for NZ rugby. There are a lot of great All Blacks that play for the likes of Toulon but you dont see their jerseys selling in NZ and you dont see good ratings from them.
@@tinasherusike7458 Union is a more complex game while League is more recognizeable player wise because you get the ball a whole lot more than in union. All of the superstars of either code play in the NRL. Union don't even have a superstar player. In the UK, there are star players but not as recognizeable when guys like Offiah, Hanley, Schofield, Davies, Phil Ford, Carl Gibson, Mike Gregory, Neil Fox, etc were out there.
Growing up I new Rugby as amateur rugby, league was known as professional rugby. Australia rugby league has started a war targeting rugby from other region they must think carefully it will hurt league in South Africa.
1:55 I suddenly found myself following at ball instead of concentrating on your video essay haha. Damn Eddie isn’t bad at handling/slapping the ball. He seems like a fun coach to have. Can’t imagine Hanson doing this kind of training with the all black boys.
Apparently he is actually irish and visited his cousins in ireland one year. Came back and created rugby. Sounds like he ripped off Gaelic football to me lol
So basically without the rise of the Nazis... Antoine Dupont would be playing league? Ona more serious note I remember plenty of comments back when Andy Farrell moved to Union about how he (and other league converts, but Farrell rather noticeably) were so "clean"/by-the-book at the breakdown that it was actually something of a hindrance for their teams.
Rugby League has always been a mainly amateur game. Despite this, for many years, Union officials did not allow amateur league players to play union except for the armed forces. How they got away with such a ban I do not know. Up until the Super League era players had to have a "proper" job as well being part time professionals. Union has benefited enormously from allowing professional players. Not only are the players much fitter but the adoption of league tactics and thinly disguised League rules make the game a better spectacle.
I live in Australia and i've grown up with League but last year my eyes were opened to Rugby Union and i love it so much more than League but that might just be that i'm a prop
Every year there should be a challenge competition between the winners of Premiership Rugby (union) and Super League (league). So for instance for 2018 it would be Wigan Warriors vs Saracens. To get past the rule differences, the competition should be played over two legs, with each match being played under the rules of the home team, eg in a rugby league ground they use league rules.
If they'd done this in previous years these would have been the competitions: 2010: Saracens vs Wigan Warriors 2011: Harlequins vs Leeds Rhinos 2012: Leiecester Tigers vs Leeds Rhinos 2013: Northampton Saints vs Wigan Warriors 2014: Saracens vs St Helens 2015: Saracens vs Leeds Rhinos 2016: Exeter Chiefs vs Wigan Warriors 2017: Saracens vs Leeds Rhinos 2018: Saracens vs Wigan Warriors
I have a better concept. Because of the specialist roles in union this concept wouldnt work well because no one from a RL team can play those specialist roles. But imagine using the hybrid rules of Mark ella for a Super Test between Australia vs New Zealand? Because of the specialist roles in the hybrid rules both countries will be able to fill those spots with the specialists from their union teams then 75% of the other positions can be a mix of the best union and league players. Obviously the Australian team will be heavily filled with league players because they are just a lot better and the NZ team will be a very interesting mix of guys like Roger Tuivasa-sheck, joey manu, nelson asofa-solomona, Ken Mamalo, Beauden Barrett and many more
If RL expanded more on international tests like union and not be too focused on club and origin games, it might help catch up with the Gilbert-branded ball game. But that's just my opinion although its unfortunate that investment was taken out of the 13-men code over the years reducing it to pretty much the UK and Oceania as popular places for the sport.
I completely disagree. The State of Origin is the absolute pinnacle of Rugby (Both Codes). The speed of the game is unmatched, best players on the planet in that arena. The energy of a game 3 decider crowd at Suncorp Stadium absolutely shits on any crowd at a Rugby World Cup Final.
@@ImCrabman_ Even if that's so as usual, sometimes it makes you want to see more on the international game also although it just me but then again to each their own so we'll agree to disagree on that one.
jake567100 Union hasn’t unfairly killed League in other countries. It’s basically given League the opportunity to beat the shit out of it because it wasn’t professional at all. And other countries just liked Union more, including Australia. But over time, League in Australia has killed Union because, they would pay Rugby Union players who came out of High School to basically play League. And everyone likes money, so they most people took it. That’s also mainly the same for American Football, you could get paid so they all moved sport
@@DJ-ce3hq Obviously you didnt carefully watch this video about what Vishy France did to league with the collaboration of union officials. The apartheid government of South Africa also banned league when the sport was gaining massive popularity in black and colored communities
Hey nice video - learnt some stuff about League! Just one thing - Wales isn't a Principality, despite our stadium sponsor. It's a country. Welsh people can get a bit touchy about this and so I'd recommend considering not using it in the future. Love your videos mate, always funny and informative.
Watching Ireland play the influence of RL is obvious. The handling and passing skills of all the Irish players is one reason for their success.Fancy when people compare unIon to league like chess to draughts. Farrel a top 'draughts' player and a reasonable 'chess 'player,only took up the game at 31,is probably the best 'chess' coach in the world.Union trying to assert intellectual superiority whereas the rules of union are so opaque that commentators are baffled by them and they are dependent on refs interpretation. Scrums and mauls are simply communal sumo wrestling!
I love both forms of Rugby. I wish union fans would stop being such asses and give League a try. I don't even know why this is such a huge argument anymore. We're in the 2020's. Not the 1870's or 60's I don't know. I was a League fan before I was a Union fan but that didn't stop me from learning more about Union.
Rugby league in Australia is going through a hard time with its extremely bad refs and eyes for only money and expansion . It's getting ridiculous. Can't watch a game anymore without the refs making a ridiculous calls that ruin games for clubs. Just look at cowboys vs broncos, where the winning try was off a forward pass when the ref was right in front of the play but you can't review forward passes so they allowed the try without having a descion.
@@willparkes5892 Eddie Jones is a great coach. Remember; he was a gnat's crotchet away from a world cup victory in 2003 with Australia and was the architect of one of sport's (let alone Rugby's) greatest upsets when Japan diddled SA in Brighton 2015. My theory is this - why risk Cipriani in games against Wales, Ireland etc. where he would be at serious risk of injury (he would *really* be targetted) when you want him as backup for one of the fulcrums of our team over an 8-week tournament?
will parkes Cipriani will probably come off the bench in a game where our kicking game isn’t working and we’re behind. Cipriani can add some pace and unpredictability to our game when we need it
Brought up with RUGBY UNION in the coalfields of South Wales. The game was a popular pastime amongst the majority of manual workers. I never got to grips with League and doubt if i ever will as i find it boring and monotonous. Although i appreciate the fabulous skills and physical fitness of its highly professional players. Since Union became professional I have found the game has taken on board all the nuances and defensive qualities that League has learned over the last 100 years due to the many League, economically minded coaches who swapped codes. This also improved dramatically, the size, strength and fitness of the Union players. Unfortunately the amateur game of elan i once adored has become a wrestling match between two sides of giant athletes who often cancel each other out. The game of RUGBY has truly lost a golden opportunity to spread its charm throughout the world initially because of CLASS DIFFERENCES between the haves and the have nots in Edwardian society. It is easy to criticise, with the benefit of hindsight, but now i recognise that to improve their fortunes both codes need to amalgamate to thrive. Together stronger. Apologies to the purists.
Rugby League is my game (Working Class Northern Englishman). I do love Rugby Union too however its a shame that the people involved in the game are such a***holes. And i mean anyone from fans, players and administrators. They say Rugby Union is a game for everyone repeatedly yet in practice its a game for the self proclaimed "elite" and they consistently alienate those from working class backgrounds/different races.
Rugby Union is not the game it was in the late 90s. Rugby League has always evolved and changed its rules to promote attacking play and the scoring of tries. It seems that the Northern hemisphere hasn't been as enthusiastic about playing attacking Rugby Union as the value of penalty and field goals helps keep them competitive against the southern hemisphere powerhouses.
Because rugby wouldn't have allowed it , they've always tried to stamp out league worldwide.. My father and his generations would get disciplined from teachers if they played league
@J. Al Football is definitely the most popular sport in South Africa but is pales in comparison when it comes to national importance. Bafana Bafana losing or winning means nothing when the Springboks are playing the same weekend.
@N l2 because rugby would never allow leagues to get its foot in the door or it would be the end of rugby in SA I think they would have a really good league team
Much like Australia and England rugby is a private schools game. Or still seen as that even though public schools play aswell. Also league is quite boring. No thinking involved.
Rugby League were 100% in the right, and that was proven when union eventually went pro. Maybe they should have reunited then. But I have to say I prefer the union game.
This isn't even a contest. League is a huge in only NSW & North England whereas Rugby is globally recognized in nearly every country around the world. Too often league fans talk small talk about rugby comparing it to league issues which are not to the scale of the rugby beast. League doesn't even come near as it's dying out really rapidly too.
@@aboriginalbrotha9947 soooooo in other words still not popular just played in France but not Stade de France huge or Montpelier huge or Toulon huge or Racing Metro huge or huge like the French top 16 competition right????
@@miketango8915 both codes of rugby is big in the South of France. League in France don't get much coverage like Union, but it's still big in some towns. I read an article on a League player that play domestically in France and he said that League is bigger than people don't realize. It just don't have the sponsorships it used to have before that infamous brawl in the early 80's during a championship final which mainly cost a lot of sponsors which switched to RU.
@@aboriginalbrotha9947 🤣🤣🤣🤦🏽♂️.....you league fans love to exaggerate🤣🤣🤣 have you been to France before chap???? Those French rugby games both tiers are packed to the rim 65 thousand and more in those stadiums. You are delusional about league being big in France mate 😂😂😂😂😂🤦🏽♂️. Rugby is massive EVERYWHERE.....I've never heard of league being dominant anywhere but NSW & North England.
@@miketango8915 Both codes of rugby in France are more popular in the South of France than soccer. You forgot Queensland. Rugby league is massive in that state. League today in France is more popular in smaller Southern France towns like Limoux and Lezignan. Rugby union is not really a global game. It's just popular in NZ, Tonga, Samoa, Fiji, and the South of France. Rugby League is also very big in Paupa New Guinea. Soccer is more recognizeable in the world.
I use to love League I grew up watching it N wouldn't miss a game of Origin or the broncos playing but when my brain developed with age I also developed an acquired taste for a more complex form of rugby. Now I find league super boring and lame and brainless to watch. Rugby Union is this best rugby and should be the only rugby played in the world. Sorry if i offended any League fans but it's true once you understand half the rules of Union you will realise how lame League is and how much better and competitive Union is.
Union is by far the better sport simply because it needs a player's personal involvement, or investment in themselves as future men; not just as a mindless, nerveless, battering rams who can count to 5 (then 'more'). Essentially Union is a personal journey with the team element being observational, of the other players, e.g., he always jinks left, tries too hard, gets isolated, can't pass left, can't steal the ball, etc. The corollary being: I can only pass right, will get myself into trouble if I try too hard for yards, etc. Any 'game plan' for Union is much more flexible, exploratory and rarely much beyond - who, when and where do we kick. League is expanding? I doubt that. Not significantly anyway. Union is expanding into nations and continents not just isolated clubs. League can never win the overall support of women because it keeps pumping out abusers and antisocial personalities. League didn't make them that way, but it helps if they are that way inclined when they start and train to be more effective at it. Little Johnny will still listen to Mum, if she's a good one. Union will always win the support of Big Money simply because we produce leaders, team builders, managers, salesmen as well as educated professionals (who eventually become managers, of budgets, etc.) The investment is two-way; in themselves and pays off for the player with a life, good career, and choice of opportunities after the game. For some, even if they played only in the local club's lower grades. They get contacts if they play hard and fair keeping their eyes on the prize. Post-career depression in Union is markedly lower. But still an important issue. Going pro has not been a joyride. It is a rather large life shock when the support and noise just, stops. As long as it remains a game first, second and not the sole pillar of a life they'll be fine. The worst thing we have done? imho is to use tactical replacements; it has increased the bulk and reduced the IQ level of suitable players. It also led to essential weight training, which expanded into neck roll laws, side entry laws, head-high ball and all tackles (vs. get that SOB and his legs on the ground, now), etc. Calisthenics and endurance physical preparation are all we should need; producing office and off-the-rack suitable bodies. [Before I forget, can we have our scrums back too? Ref says nothing, which was the tradition. An IQ test. Just play Rugby. Get too excited and a 10 metre rearward run will follow.]
So... basically, rugby union could have been huge in not only England but Australia and America, if the initial organizers behind it weren't such stingy bastards and turned the game pro much earlier. Great, well that's just great
David Caro as an American who’s grown into loving rugby, the game could have easily today be one of the most popular sports in this country. I need to do more research, but what I’ve learned is that in the earlier days of America’s history, and up until about the 1890s, rugby was the most popular sport in almost every state. American football only gained traction in the upper Midwest (Wisconsin, Minnesota, Illinois, Michigan etc). There are a few other factors that made American football more popular than rugby. One reason is that football players were being paid to play, whereas rugby players only played simply for the love of the game. So that’s where we’re at now trying to grow the sport. Glad to have MLR and it will continue to grow. Slowly but surely.
@@erickofspirit College football is amateur and was more popular that Pro football for 50+ years.
@@erickofspirityeah from my research thats basically how I understand it from my research. Both American football and rugby union were popular back in the day , with rugby more popular on the coast and gridiron more pop in the middle states. A combo of football becoming professional and the invention of the forward pass is what surged football ahead in popularity the USA
Rusty Richardson yeah, there was no real difference between rugby union and the gridiron game. It wasn’t until about 1905 that the gridiron game legalized the forward pass. This is just my opinion, but I don’t believe that the forward pass is what made American football more popular. In my opinion, it’s the effect of American football becoming a professional sport, where players get paid. And it can’t help but make you wonder how different rugby union could have been if they made the sport professional a lot sooner.
Yeah, almost like soccer in a way
So underrated. Easily one of the best rugby channels on the site
Im a Zimbabwean based in the USA and have played and followed union all my life and i began watching League 12 years ago. Currently league is my favorite and i have grown to love it more than union. If you are any rugby fan if you kick ignorance out the window and take the time to watch some rugby league the game will grow on you. League has also been growing amoung other young black zimbabwean and south african rugby players and i feel the game is just a lot better suited to us than union. Same thing for Polynesians where a few months ago Charles Piutau stated that there are mass defections of kids switching to League in Tonga because of the success of the Tongan rugby league national team. To me this makes a lot of sense because League has more integrity and inclusion than union. Pacific Island countries have been treated horribly by rugby union administrators with their players being poached or denied from playing world cups and also not getting the same equal votes as other unions. The talent on the Tongan rugby league team is unbelievable compared to the union team. Also they just got Israel Folau to add to their many star players whereas in union he's the sort of talent they wouldnt see on their team becuase they end up playing for the all blacks or Wallabies. In the USA im also carefully watching the ratings of MLR compared to Toronto Wolfpacks rugby league club. I truely believe north america is better suited to League and if you look at the last 2-3 seasons of MLR no team has come close to the sort of attendances that the Wolfpack get to their games to show you that its got to be the simpler rules of league that engage north american fans better.
I am a South African, who grew up in Belgium (so barely rugby there though), so obviously I am more into union, however I started watching the NRL after the RLWC 2017 where I was fascinated by the Tongan RL team. However there are 2 things you mention which I cannot fully agree with.
1) I agree that union has not been inclusive enough for the Pacific Island countries, which often leads to Polynesians playing for not only NZ, Aus (often the country they grew up in, so fair enough), but also France, England... So I feel like there should be stricter rules. In league, it seems that players can just change from representative country whenever they want. Like Jason Taumalolo (my favorite player btw) who played for NZ just months before the world cup where he would play for Tonga. Or Andrew Fifita, who played for Australia and now Tonga, but still plays with the indigenous All-Stars and NSW state of origin team. So I like that in League, small island countries can be powerhouses, however players should make a choice, and not switch every time they feel like it.
2) Toronto wolfpack has not played a Super League game in Toronto yet, and have no Canadian in their team, so apart from a Canadian name, it's not Canadian what so ever
@@95VJay You bring up a very interesting point about switching national allegiances. Coming from a football and rugby union background i was 1st uncomfortable with it but now i have grown to fully understand and accept the unique national fluidity that rugby league has created using heritage for its international game. Without this fluidity talent would just be sitting at home during international matches and tournaments and leaving NZ and Australia stacked to give you a predictable product.
One of the biggest reasons for this is to create parity in international rugby league. Just like with rugby union rugby league admins know that they need to use international rugby to promote the game globally which so far is succeeding when you look at the growth in popularity of the game in the pacific. With Tonga, NZ, Australia and PNG rugby league now has more powerful national teams on that side of the planet compared to union.
@@95VJay Oh and just a small correction. Only those that represent Australia are allowed for Origin selection so Andrew Fifita has not been selected for the Blues since switching. State of Origin is another big reason why you also have this fluidity. Every kid in NSW and Queensland dreams of playing Origin regardless their race so at some point in their careers they would want to achieve that. Tavita Pangai Junior is a great example of someone who could very soon switch his allegiance from Tonga to Australia so he could experience origin. Without this national fluidity the pacific islands would lose a hell lot of talent
I feel like it’s just a matter of time before league takes a foothold in countries like Argentina and France
I’m a dual coder who’s also a Yank. I love both codes. As sports go they are both massively underrated. It’s silly to squabble between the two. However; as an American we don’t have the class distinction that the English have. I’ll watch a majority of the Rugby Union World Cup games and saw every single RL World Cup game in 2017. I spend about $500 a year in apps to buy both codes. I watch about 2-3 League game and 1-2 Union games a week. Great video dude.
Rugby union has a dark past, which many including this video maker do not wish to discuss. Racism and class prejudice, to name a couple and banning league in many countries due to some socialist ties. Rugby league is both Progressive on and off the field.
@@thomastimms88 Yep very dark history. Rugby League was banned in my parts
@@thomastimms88 I heard about these stories. I'm American and I've been following both codes for almost 10 years but I prefer League due to their progressive thinking. Rugby union has a very dark history and that's how it gotten worldwide recognition due to corruption. People think RU is a worldwide sport and it's nowhere near there and never will be.
@Alfa&Omega 00000 League was banned from France for several years until 1944. After the war, the sport gained popularity, but fans were not allowed to say rugby a xiii. They were allowed to call the sport Jeu a XIII until 1991 but it started in 1949. Despite this, the sport was covered very well in the media until the early 80's after a ugly brawl during a championship final which forced the game to be abandoned. French RL lost a lot of sponsors after the incident.
@@aboriginalbrotha9947 Hate to break it to you lad but Rugby has been a global sport for some time and continues to grow, while league doesn't exist outside of two Australian states. The reality is that League is not only a niche sport but effectively non-existent.
I grew up with rugby league in Sydney. It's the game I prefer. I also like union, but I wish there were less penalties.
I agree with many of the comments on this page about the Aussie NRL league competition being the premier 'rugby' tournament in the world. I know union is played in more countries, but that's due to its long history of amateurism. League is a professional game which has prospered in places which have the financial depth to make it work.
Excellent video, by the way. I learned some things I didn't know.
As per your last comment...if the laws of union were as simple to understand as league...then union would start to look more like league, I suppose.
I am currently in discussing using the division of rugby codes as a way to show class consciousness in early 19th-late 20th century Britain as my dissertation for my final year! (History student)
Taylor Wilson You have to check out the Tony Collins Rugby Reloaded podcast. That’s the best shit on the internet. There’s gold in them hills.
American here. Union was shown on tv here in the early 2000s on Fox Soccer Plus with the Celtic League and Tri-Nations. Around 2010 FSP started showing NRL, State of Origin, and Super League instead. In the last two years the Gallagher Premiership, Guinness Pro 14, and Six Nations started being shown Stateside on various channels. So if you want to see both codes of rugby you can. I enjoy both codes because of how different they are from each other.
Great comment about the rugby union Yorkshire Cup.Before 1895 and the breakaway,the union Yorkshire Cup drew bigger attendances than the F A Cup.Wakefield Trinity RFC in particular were great in it.
Just tremendous content from a true lover of Rugby. Hats off to you
Great video, in 2020 after New Zealand finished its super rugby comp they had a North island vs South Island similar to state of origin. They definitely should bring that back to help promote the game and get the players more recognition.
If both codes was together it could challenge football
I would say if it never split it would have
@J. Al no that's wrong
@J. Al I'm saying that your completely over exaggerating with saying if you combined all sports. Which was your original comment
Rugby is football but yes
I agree with you. Anyway football is pathetic without the rugby in it. Bigger than American Football for sure !
This was a great video but hot damn i had to watch it 3 times because I kept getting distracted by the footage lol.
Australian Rugby League is a lot stronger than any of the best rugby union countries by far. NZ rugby i would say is rugby unions best chance of getting anywhere close to the quality that the Roos can provide
Exactly bro, the NRL is the best rugby comp in either code. I say Super League is the second due to iconic clubs like Wigan, St. Helens, and Leeds. None of the rugby union competitions aren't as good as the two and nor popular as the two. Union only really had a rich history in international level. Club rugby union don't have a rich history except for France when the smaller towns were a whole lot stronger than teams like Toulouse and other big names. That was when both union and league were pretty popular in France until the early 80's when a ugly brawl broke out during a rugby league championship final. That match was abandoned and France rugby league lost a lot of sponsorships which pretty much killed the sport popularity in the country. League is still popular in France, but it has issues in coverage and sponsorships because the majority of them switched to union after the incident.
@@aboriginalbrotha9947 Its a shame for French Rugby league because just like with NZ rugby league there were moments in their history where the game was very close to becoming mainstream in those countries. But with NZ rugby league i reckon that can still happen. NZ rugbys failure to create an engaging domestic product could hit them hard especially when you are up against the NRL as well as their relationship with the pacifika population..
@@tinasherusike7458 Exactly bro. Lack of opportunities for NZ rugby union players will get them poached by NRL scouts. Union in the NH is in pretty good shape because they know how to run their domestic competitions especially in France even the second tier are making revenue. A lot of SH players go to the NH to make more money or they switch to league. RU in the Southern Hemisphere is in very bad shape and that's why South Africa is getting ready to move to the Six Nations in the next few years.
when you look at the sales of NRL merchandise in NZ compared to other rugby union club teams outside of NZ that should be concerning for NZ rugby. There are a lot of great All Blacks that play for the likes of Toulon but you dont see their jerseys selling in NZ and you dont see good ratings from them.
@@tinasherusike7458 Union is a more complex game while League is more recognizeable player wise because you get the ball a whole lot more than in union. All of the superstars of either code play in the NRL. Union don't even have a superstar player. In the UK, there are star players but not as recognizeable when guys like Offiah, Hanley, Schofield, Davies, Phil Ford, Carl Gibson, Mike Gregory, Neil Fox, etc were out there.
Growing up I new Rugby as amateur rugby, league was known as professional rugby. Australia rugby league has started a war targeting rugby from other region they must think carefully it will hurt league in South Africa.
1:55 I suddenly found myself following at ball instead of concentrating on your video essay haha. Damn Eddie isn’t bad at handling/slapping the ball. He seems like a fun coach to have. Can’t imagine Hanson doing this kind of training with the all black boys.
Union do be plantation like
the 1823 Webb Ellis is pretty much a myth.
Apparently he is actually irish and visited his cousins in ireland one year. Came back and created rugby. Sounds like he ripped off Gaelic football to me lol
L B dude, wtf. Rugby was made before Gaelic Football. How can ig Ben tipped off from that, if it wasn’t even invented yet
L B dude, wtf. Rugby was made before Gaelic Football. How can it have been ripped off from that, if it wasn’t even invented yet
I've started watching league recently
Tom E Oh that's cool! Who do you support? 🙌🏼
@@ohmon wdym who does he support? There is the NRL and the Super League
@@zaco21_ and the championship, League 1, Holden Cup, French Elite 1 and 2, Balkan League, Euro XIII just to name a few
So basically without the rise of the Nazis... Antoine Dupont would be playing league?
Ona more serious note I remember plenty of comments back when Andy Farrell moved to Union about how he (and other league converts, but Farrell rather noticeably) were so "clean"/by-the-book at the breakdown that it was actually something of a hindrance for their teams.
Rugby league players make great centres wingers and even flankers some times
Rugby League has always been a mainly amateur game. Despite this, for many years, Union officials did not allow amateur league players to play union except for the armed forces. How they got away with such a ban I do not know. Up until the Super League era players had to have a "proper" job as well being part time professionals.
Union has benefited enormously from allowing professional players. Not only are the players much fitter but the adoption of league tactics and thinly disguised League rules make the game a better spectacle.
I live in Australia and i've grown up with League but last year my eyes were opened to Rugby Union and i love it so much more than League but that might just be that i'm a prop
Probably because you’re fat
@@dominicohearn8547 woah he's not fat... hes curvy
Every year there should be a challenge competition between the winners of Premiership Rugby (union) and Super League (league). So for instance for 2018 it would be Wigan Warriors vs Saracens. To get past the rule differences, the competition should be played over two legs, with each match being played under the rules of the home team, eg in a rugby league ground they use league rules.
If they'd done this in previous years these would have been the competitions:
2010: Saracens vs Wigan Warriors
2011: Harlequins vs Leeds Rhinos
2012: Leiecester Tigers vs Leeds Rhinos
2013: Northampton Saints vs Wigan Warriors
2014: Saracens vs St Helens
2015: Saracens vs Leeds Rhinos
2016: Exeter Chiefs vs Wigan Warriors
2017: Saracens vs Leeds Rhinos
2018: Saracens vs Wigan Warriors
They did this in 1996 Wigan vs Bath in 2 legs exactly as you described.
I have a better concept. Because of the specialist roles in union this concept wouldnt work well because no one from a RL team can play those specialist roles. But imagine using the hybrid rules of Mark ella for a Super Test between Australia vs New Zealand? Because of the specialist roles in the hybrid rules both countries will be able to fill those spots with the specialists from their union teams then 75% of the other positions can be a mix of the best union and league players. Obviously the Australian team will be heavily filled with league players because they are just a lot better and the NZ team will be a very interesting mix of guys like Roger Tuivasa-sheck, joey manu, nelson asofa-solomona, Ken Mamalo, Beauden Barrett and many more
Your voice is so calming it’s almost scary. Great vid tho
If RL expanded more on international tests like union and not be too focused on club and origin games, it might help catch up with the Gilbert-branded ball game. But that's just my opinion although its unfortunate that investment was taken out of the 13-men code over the years reducing it to pretty much the UK and Oceania as popular places for the sport.
I completely disagree. The State of Origin is the absolute pinnacle of Rugby (Both Codes). The speed of the game is unmatched, best players on the planet in that arena. The energy of a game 3 decider crowd at Suncorp Stadium absolutely shits on any crowd at a Rugby World Cup Final.
@@ImCrabman_ Even if that's so as usual, sometimes it makes you want to see more on the international game also although it just me but then again to each their own so we'll agree to disagree on that one.
Howling with laughter at the pronunciation of 'Tyldesley'
Sadly league has almost killed union in Australia
Lnx UA-cam I hope it does, union has killed league unfairly in many countries and state of origin is as good to watch as any international union test.
Lol AFL is killing League in Australia.
@@Primal-Weed Not at all. North of the Murray River NRL is by far more dominant than AFL.
jake567100 Union hasn’t unfairly killed League in other countries. It’s basically given League the opportunity to beat the shit out of it because it wasn’t professional at all. And other countries just liked Union more, including Australia. But over time, League in Australia has killed Union because, they would pay Rugby Union players who came out of High School to basically play League. And everyone likes money, so they most people took it. That’s also mainly the same for American Football, you could get paid so they all moved sport
@@DJ-ce3hq Obviously you didnt carefully watch this video about what Vishy France did to league with the collaboration of union officials. The apartheid government of South Africa also banned league when the sport was gaining massive popularity in black and colored communities
Hey nice video - learnt some stuff about League!
Just one thing - Wales isn't a Principality, despite our stadium sponsor. It's a country. Welsh people can get a bit touchy about this and so I'd recommend considering not using it in the future.
Love your videos mate, always funny and informative.
Watching Ireland play the influence of RL is obvious. The handling and passing skills of all the Irish players is one reason for their success.Fancy when people compare unIon to league like chess to draughts. Farrel a top 'draughts' player and a reasonable 'chess 'player,only took up the game at 31,is probably the best 'chess' coach in the world.Union trying to assert intellectual superiority whereas the rules of union are so opaque that commentators are baffled by them and they are dependent on refs interpretation. Scrums and mauls are simply communal sumo wrestling!
I love both forms of Rugby. I wish union fans would stop being such asses and give League a try. I don't even know why this is such a huge argument anymore. We're in the 2020's. Not the 1870's or 60's I don't know. I was a League fan before I was a Union fan but that didn't stop me from learning more about Union.
You and squidge are the gods of youtube rugby
Rugby league in Australia is going through a hard time with its extremely bad refs and eyes for only money and expansion . It's getting ridiculous. Can't watch a game anymore without the refs making a ridiculous calls that ruin games for clubs. Just look at cowboys vs broncos, where the winning try was off a forward pass when the ref was right in front of the play but you can't review forward passes so they allowed the try without having a descion.
Dude ur spot on with that game. Even as a Broncos fan, i felt the cowboys got robbed
You can't review forward passes?
2:15 Eddie Jones slapping Danny Cipriani away from the England squad for no discernable reasons
I can almost guarantee you that Cipriani will be in Japan. There. I've said it
@@jonnutter I really hope so, but looks a tad unlikely atm
@@willparkes5892 Eddie Jones is a great coach. Remember; he was a gnat's crotchet away from a world cup victory in 2003 with Australia and was the architect of one of sport's (let alone Rugby's) greatest upsets when Japan diddled SA in Brighton 2015. My theory is this - why risk Cipriani in games against Wales, Ireland etc. where he would be at serious risk of injury (he would *really* be targetted) when you want him as backup for one of the fulcrums of our team over an 8-week tournament?
will parkes Cipriani will probably come off the bench in a game where our kicking game isn’t working and we’re behind. Cipriani can add some pace and unpredictability to our game when we need it
@@jonnutter hello from 5 months later
Brought up with RUGBY UNION in the coalfields of South Wales. The game was a popular pastime amongst the majority of manual workers. I never got to grips with League and doubt if i ever will as i find it boring and monotonous. Although i appreciate the fabulous skills and physical fitness of its highly professional players. Since Union became professional I have found the game has taken on board all the nuances and defensive qualities that League has learned over the last 100 years due to the many League, economically minded coaches who swapped codes. This also improved dramatically, the size, strength and fitness of the Union players. Unfortunately the amateur game of elan i once adored has become a wrestling match between two sides of giant athletes who often cancel each other out. The game of RUGBY has truly lost a golden opportunity to spread its charm throughout the world initially because of CLASS DIFFERENCES between the haves and the have nots in Edwardian society. It is easy to criticise, with the benefit of hindsight, but now i recognise that to improve their fortunes both codes need to amalgamate to thrive. Together stronger. Apologies to the purists.
Really enjoyable vid mate. Any chance you could post some references for further reading?
thank you great channel fair and balanced
The State of Origin is the pinnacle of all rugby (both codes).
Rugby League is my game (Working Class Northern Englishman). I do love Rugby Union too however its a shame that the people involved in the game are such a***holes. And i mean anyone from fans, players and administrators.
They say Rugby Union is a game for everyone repeatedly yet in practice its a game for the self proclaimed "elite" and they consistently alienate those from working class backgrounds/different races.
Where do you find your back ground footage. Would like something similar for my channel
Live nearby so I'm gonna watch rlwc semi in emirates
Enjoy both codes, a pay packet a pay packet.
Rugby Union is not the game it was in the late 90s. Rugby League has always evolved and changed its rules to promote attacking play and the scoring of tries. It seems that the Northern hemisphere hasn't been as enthusiastic about playing attacking Rugby Union as the value of penalty and field goals helps keep them competitive against the southern hemisphere powerhouses.
Have you watched any Union in the last few years? Way more attacking now.
@@maccaspope2275 They’re chasing instead of leading now though Union have just done that to follow in league’s footsteps
@@mitchellsmith300 Union is way more interesting
Would be interesting to know why league never took off in a rugby mad country like South Africa.
Because rugby wouldn't have allowed it , they've always tried to stamp out league worldwide.. My father and his generations would get disciplined from teachers if they played league
@J. Al Football is definitely the most popular sport in South Africa but is pales in comparison when it comes to national importance. Bafana Bafana losing or winning means nothing when the Springboks are playing the same weekend.
@N l2 because rugby would never allow leagues to get its foot in the door or it would be the end of rugby in SA I think they would have a really good league team
Much like Australia and England rugby is a private schools game. Or still seen as that even though public schools play aswell. Also league is quite boring. No thinking involved.
Because League is a joke.
Rugby League were 100% in the right, and that was proven when union eventually went pro. Maybe they should have reunited then. But I have to say I prefer the union game.
just found your channel but it seems ace
Rise of Argentina would be a cool video
league is popular in Argentina?
This isn't even a contest. League is a huge in only NSW & North England whereas Rugby is globally recognized in nearly every country around the world. Too often league fans talk small talk about rugby comparing it to league issues which are not to the scale of the rugby beast. League doesn't even come near as it's dying out really rapidly too.
Rugby League is also popular in PNG, South of France, and Queensland.
@@aboriginalbrotha9947 soooooo in other words still not popular just played in France but not Stade de France huge or Montpelier huge or Toulon huge or Racing Metro huge or huge like the French top 16 competition right????
@@miketango8915 both codes of rugby is big in the South of France. League in France don't get much coverage like Union, but it's still big in some towns. I read an article on a League player that play domestically in France and he said that League is bigger than people don't realize. It just don't have the sponsorships it used to have before that infamous brawl in the early 80's during a championship final which mainly cost a lot of sponsors which switched to RU.
@@aboriginalbrotha9947 🤣🤣🤣🤦🏽♂️.....you league fans love to exaggerate🤣🤣🤣 have you been to France before chap???? Those French rugby games both tiers are packed to the rim 65 thousand and more in those stadiums. You are delusional about league being big in France mate 😂😂😂😂😂🤦🏽♂️. Rugby is massive EVERYWHERE.....I've never heard of league being dominant anywhere but NSW & North England.
@@miketango8915 Both codes of rugby in France are more popular in the South of France than soccer. You forgot Queensland. Rugby league is massive in that state. League today in France is more popular in smaller Southern France towns like Limoux and Lezignan. Rugby union is not really a global game. It's just popular in NZ, Tonga, Samoa, Fiji, and the South of France. Rugby League is also very big in Paupa New Guinea. Soccer is more recognizeable in the world.
1871-6 != 1834
I am confused
Is this the same puff squid dude?
You're telling lie. Slavery was abandoned in 1833. That's 38 years before 1871.
The law was passed in 33 but 34 was the official date of emancipation
I use to love League I grew up watching it N wouldn't miss a game of Origin or the broncos playing but when my brain developed with age I also developed an acquired taste for a more complex form of rugby. Now I find league super boring and lame and brainless to watch. Rugby Union is this best rugby and should be the only rugby played in the world. Sorry if i offended any League fans but it's true once you understand half the rules of Union you will realise how lame League is and how much better and competitive Union is.
All Blacks + Queensland fan here!
Thats weird for a qlder
I have to say i do notice that Kiwis tend to gravitate towards Queensland
Sorry slavery was abolished in 1865??
Union is by far the better sport simply because it needs a player's personal involvement, or investment in themselves as future men; not just as a mindless, nerveless, battering rams who can count to 5 (then 'more'). Essentially Union is a personal journey with the team element being observational, of the other players, e.g., he always jinks left, tries too hard, gets isolated, can't pass left, can't steal the ball, etc. The corollary being: I can only pass right, will get myself into trouble if I try too hard for yards, etc. Any 'game plan' for Union is much more flexible, exploratory and rarely much beyond - who, when and where do we kick.
League is expanding? I doubt that. Not significantly anyway. Union is expanding into nations and continents not just isolated clubs.
League can never win the overall support of women because it keeps pumping out abusers and antisocial personalities. League didn't make them that way, but it helps if they are that way inclined when they start and train to be more effective at it. Little Johnny will still listen to Mum, if she's a good one.
Union will always win the support of Big Money simply because we produce leaders, team builders, managers, salesmen as well as educated professionals (who eventually become managers, of budgets, etc.) The investment is two-way; in themselves and pays off for the player with a life, good career, and choice of opportunities after the game. For some, even if they played only in the local club's lower grades. They get contacts if they play hard and fair keeping their eyes on the prize.
Post-career depression in Union is markedly lower. But still an important issue. Going pro has not been a joyride. It is a rather large life shock when the support and noise just, stops. As long as it remains a game first, second and not the sole pillar of a life they'll be fine.
The worst thing we have done? imho is to use tactical replacements; it has increased the bulk and reduced the IQ level of suitable players. It also led to essential weight training, which expanded into neck roll laws, side entry laws, head-high ball and all tackles (vs. get that SOB and his legs on the ground, now), etc. Calisthenics and endurance physical preparation are all we should need; producing office and off-the-rack suitable bodies.
[Before I forget, can we have our scrums back too? Ref says nothing, which was the tradition. An IQ test. Just play Rugby. Get too excited and a 10 metre rearward run will follow.]