If you have this BMW i3 with Rex you can get the computer to reset to Europe mode. that way you can put the EV on hold use the gas to charge it at any time.
I'm really happy that you explained how this system works. I'll stay with my PHEV, with it's 500 miles of gas in the tank for road trips and enough battery range for daily short commutes.
Why is it so hard to get the information on how far the range extender gets you? If I buy a used i3 with range extender will I actually be able to drive 500 miles in one trip without stopping? I'm trying to find a simple explanation of how far the extender gets you but everyone gets into these overly complex explanations that tell you everything but the most important fact - how far can it get you without stopping on flat ground.
if you buy a pre 2017 i3 you will be able to drive roughly 160 miles without stopping if you set off with a full charge and full tank and drive it sensibly, big elevation changes and climate control usage will reduce this range. If you buy a 2017 i3 you will have a range of about 200 miles before you'll need to stop. Once the battery is low and range extender tank is depleted you can refill the tank and just keep going for another 80ish miles or stop and charge, or both.
It really depends on what your primary use case is. If you usually drive the shorter distance a PHEV can do on just battery, but also take longer road trips fairly often, a PHEV (Prius Prime/Volt/etc) makes sense. If your regular commute is more than PHEV on battery-only, but you rarely take longer road trips (or have another vehicle for those,) the i3 makes a lot of sense. In our case, the i3 is good for our commute, plus "local road trips" - day trips to the coast, day trips to visit family 100 miles away, etc. While we still have our other car for road trips. If our commute were shorter, especially if it was just me, not me+spouse, and I only wanted one car, a PHEV would make more sense. But as we need two cars anyway, the i3 makes perfect sense as the "primary longer-commuter" vehicle, with the other car (a non-plug-in Prius) as the shorter commuter car+road trip.)
The 6.5% SOC limit is the most obnoxious. Especially when combined with the range limit. It means when you get low on gasoline in REx mode, you have to stop for gas *IMMEDIATELY*. You have only a couple miles of range left. It also means that if you are going to be going on a road trip where you know you'll go a while between gasoline refills, you may be hosed. 160 mile drive, where the last gas station before your destination at the 80 mile mark? Tough luck, you won't have used any gasoline yet, and you'll just barely be squeaking in to your destination. Got a used i3 REx a couple weeks ago, and took it on a trip to the coast. ~90 miles to the coast, over large hills (or what East Coast USers would call "mountains.") with no gas stations for the second half until you were right at the coast. Made it on just EV power, got there, only to discover that the only level 3 charging station is the wrong connector. Oh well, REx it from there. Drove up the coast, arriving at the next level 3 station with about 3 miles of REx range left. Couldn't have filled with gas at the first town, it hasn't even used any gas left. No gas stations in between. Had I been allowed to use "Range Hold" mode, I would have done that for the initial trip, and arrived in the first city with gas tank empty, and plenty of electric range; filled up with gas, and not had to worry about charger problems. The day after I got home, my bluetooth ODB-II adapter arrived, and I unlocked both Range Hold mode and the full tank size. Took another "range stretching" trip yesterday with no problem. "There and back" was pretty much exactly the maximum range of battery+REx, with about half of it on freeway. So I used battery to get to the freeway, then switched to REx for the freeway drive one way, switched back to battery in the city on the other end, back to REx for the freeway drive home, ran out of gas pretty much right when I got off the freeway, with enough electric range left to stop at the gas station and get home with 10 miles to spare. Got home with a full gas tank, and battery to spare, rather than having an "empty" gas tank (really 1/3 full, but with the artificial US limit) and empty battery barely limping in to the gas station.
The best and clear explanation I have heard on REX so far. I always have trouble explaining the REX to others. In 2014-2016 models, the battery is only 22kwhr and they software limit the gas tank to 1.9 gallons to avoid the california law. But its easy to code the BMW to enable to the hold mode and enable full gas tank in older models.
Ah! Thankyou. You've given me the information I needed. Every description I've come across said the extender is only meant to help the I3 make it to the next charging spot. So there's no limitation on refilling the tank. I wonder if you can buy a rig to hold a jerry can on the back.
It's a true series hybrid. And memes aside, a detachable trailer with generator is a fantastic idea for EVs. Leave the weight off when you don't need it (regular driving around town), and then just hook up the generator like a bike rack when you want to go further. I also think that a simple & obvious hack for the i3 is to fit it with a larger gas tank. Change it to a 6 gal tank, and BAM! another 200 mi range. The ultra-poor man hack would be to simply haul around a couple 2 gal cans which you fill up at the same time as the car's tank, so you just pull over, dump one into the car, & continue driving.
Or. Hear me out here. Or. We could take out the big heavy batteries, take out the Ozone creating motors. Put some real tyres on it, expand the floor pan then we can store a container of high density bio solar energy in the back and pipe it to some kind of controlled burner unit at the front that'll extract energy from that high density fuel source and achieve anywhere between 300 to 900 miles per 'charge' That way you don't need a trailer for an electricity generator, instead you can just generator your own useable force locally and you don't need to worry so much about power cell depletion, degradation or sudden explosive failure. Radical I know, hopefully someone will come up with this contained high density combustion energy conversion device.
@@rhedinrage1601 ☺ Love your radical idea. It sounds vaguely familiar. Maybe you can convince some Hollywood play actors to endorse it as the Next Big Green Idea.😉
A decade before Tesla there was a small EV sport coupe called the "Tzero" It had an optional towed trailer with a gas generator to extend range in an essentially "series-hybrid" set up. The Volt is probably more affordable and pragmatic. A cheap pure EV for city commuting and renting a regular car for occasional road trips is another way.
I have the i3 REX 2017. 120miles on the battery 100 on the extender. Have taken a 1000 mile road trip with about 1/2 begin on the extender. Never got into limp mode, and never had a problem other than knowing I had to fill the tank often when on the REx.
You can drive continuously on the range extender as long as the car has gas, no different than any gas powered car. No it does not overheat. The range extender runs at it's own speed and battery charge will increase of decrease depending your use of power. In stock form the range extender comes on at 6% battery and will turn off at 7%, but you can adjust that with some tinkering. On flat ground 72mph is the max continuous speed on the extender. If you do run out of gas for the extender, you have about 6 more miles of electric range. It's not the car I would choose if most of my driving was 200+ mile road trips, but it certainly can go 2-3 thousand miles without plugging in if you need to do that.
Alex, I own a 2014 i3 REX. You can easily get it in "turtle mode" going over Hwy 17. It happened to me once. Now I have the car coded and can switch on the REX manually.
+Thomas Blaesi the 2014 did it a little easier, but it still requires you to exceed the speed limit on 17. Thanks to the larger battery in the 2017 it takes more to get there.
Thom, I live in Sparks Nevada and my concern is going over the mountain to California. Is it fairly easy to get the car coded? Does it make it more like the European models?
"Perfect is the enemy of good" is how to describe the EV situation. The BEV absolutists are harming their own cause. After living with a REx for 2 years, it has been both an ideal commuter and road trip car. 25 gallons of gas last year for 24,000 miles of driving (plus $500 of Northwest hydro power) is green enough for us. Having more range extended vehicles would cut weight of cars (vs BEV), reduce need for both huge batteries and Rare Earth mining. It would allow seamless road trips that don't require half-hour to 6 hour charging stops. It would nearly eliminate need for a multi-billion $$$ public charging network. It would work for rural folks, high-rise and apartment dwellers. The cost of running the REx generator for us is about 4x compared to a charge from home, so that's plenty incentive to plug in for pure EV driving.
What is the max kWh this generator can do? I noticed that generator works at different power as well. The faster you drive the harder it works. I’m curious if could hack it just to use as the backup charger than to keep up level of the charge.
I would think if it was possible it would've happened by now. Best I can find is that if you code it to Europe you can manually tell it to come on at 75%. One problem is if your charge drops below that and you stop for gas, the current charge is now the max you can tell it to hold. I've heard you can avoid this by filling up while it's still on using a jerry can but this is a bit sketchy and I've heard it has a pressurised tank and the engine will stop running if you open the gas cap and ruin that pressurisation. But I don't own one yet, just been doing tons of research as I kind of want one but there are a ton of negative quirks. The others holding me back are no way to attach a roof rack and the odd tire size only made by one company and rather expensive. Oh, and no spare tire.
I think this works as battery level drops below 65 percent in journey you can start this range extender and this can give some more miles after that much of journey you can wait at a point to charge or if you have DC fast charging facility then it is fabulous you can fast charge and again continue your journey I think this concept is very nice
Were there changes to the range extender’s output in different years or models? I had a 2017 i3 that would loose battery if driven over 57 mph while on range extender. My newer 2019 seems to do pretty well at 65mph on range extender.
it's hard to convince all the gas sippers out there that a 2.4g 100 miles tank wont give them range anguish. In that respect, the Gen2 Volt makes so much more sense with it's 600km tank. Funny thing is that after 18 months of driving a Gen2 Volt, it's when I drive my legacy gas car that I'm nervous about the gas tank.
The BMW I3 REX is the true EV car available on the market today. Tesla is not and so do all other Hybrid/PHEVs. Tesla is a battery car and Honda/Toyota/Nissan/Chevy Hybrid is a combustion engine. They don't have a stand-alone built-in electric generator so when the battery dead or the combustion engine is dead they all die. It is so stupid to think that Tesla is an electric car when it does not have an electric generator. Tesla is just like a battery toy car period. IBM i3 REX has redefined the electric car and if people know the difference between these cars they will not buy the 300 Miles battery pack from Tesla or a combustion engine from Toyota.
I wonder what would happen if you had a gas tank with a pump and added fuel while driving in REX mode. Would it figure out that something's wrong and shut down, or just keep going forever?
So just to confirm, if you change it to European mode, set it to maintain 75%, then hill climb or drive too fast, dropping the battery to, say, 70%, and then pull over and stop, the REx will recharge it back up to 75% while stopped?
You don't answer whether the range extender will kick on if you reach 6.5% while it's parked. In other words, will the onboard generator re-charge while it is parked?
If for whatever reason, the battery went flat and a charging station or 110v outlet was not available, with the car parked, how long would the engine have to run to get the battery charged?
In all cases of an range extender system, the "engine" does not charge nor recharge the batteries. Same for Plug In Hybrid technology. ONLY hybrid technology vehicles charge the batteries as they are small and there is no alternative. The only way to resolve a dead EV with or without a range extender motor is to have it towed to a place that has power available, 110 or 240 or, in this case like others that have DC fast charging ports, to such a place. Thanks.
i3 REx generator maintains charge when operating the vehicle. In other words, it charges the battery to restore it to the level when the REx was first turned on. In special cases, the REx can be used to recharge a battery, but only by a few percent (forcing a maintenance cycle via software.)
Wow, this is so informative. Shame on BMW for not disclosing this upon selling the range extender option. My fiancee and I have been hit by "turtle" mode at least half a dozen times. In the video on this Reddit post we were on a hill that wasn't even that long or steep and were slowed all the way to 0mph: www.reddit.com/r/BmwTech/comments/iy08qc/should_this_be_recalled_or_nah/
Cedric M this explanation is wrong. When you have the range extender it doesn't mean you drive 34HP. I drove that car for a week wile my 328i was in service. It's just charging the battery. You still have the 170 HP.
Perhaps you would say the same thing for the electric Vespa or any electric scooter or a Ford F250 pickup truck? Of course, all vehicles have a specific market goal with the specifics setting the limits. As to this vehicle, it is extremely efficient and versatile for many, much like a Chevy Corvette, which BTW, sells all models before they are built. So, enjoy what you drive and most EV owners, range extender or not, are happy as to paying from nothing to very little for fuel for daily activities. My Nissan Leaf does everything I want and need for city and regional needs and with solar power, I pay very little for power for home and car. Enjoy your ride. Thanks.
@Alex On Autos was wondering your take on CARB? I like the idea of low pollution but think they are too agenda driven. I feel more of a focus should be on coal power plants, airplanes, commercial trucks, and cow flatulence. I feel that petrol passenger cars are very efficient. I do not like the mandate on EVs. I consider you more of an expert on this than myself and curious on your thought. I want V8s to still be alive. I love cars. I feel CARB wants us back in the 80s.
I respectfully disagree with the term "Hybrid" for his car and all electric vehicles with a range extender. Why? Becuase there is a category of technology, defined by the Toyota Prius, that includes the term for all cars with self charging capacity for the battery. Typically, a hybrid is a car that has stop/start capablity, perhaps a bit of range in electric mode, but without a plug, these cars cannot go far on electricity. My 2008 Mercury Mariner hybrid, with a Jurrasic battery, can go less than a mile, at slow speed and without AC, on electricity. More modern versions, such as the Ford Fusion hybrid, have more capacity as the batteries are better as well as the software. But an EV with a range extender is not a "hybrid" since it does not fit that description of self charging the battery. Thanks.
There are just so many possible categories for "vehicle with an electric motor and an internal combustion engine." The old Chevy hybrid pickups were "barely hybrid" where the electric motor didn't provide any real direct power-to-the-wheels, it was more used as a high-powered starter to enable auto start-stop at stop lights. The older Honda system was a weaker "low-end hybrid" where it added a little bit of drive power, but not enough to actually drive the car solely on electric (it was also connected directly to the engine's crankshaft,) although in later versions, they did beef it up enough to provide a small amount of direct-drive power. Toyota's is the "quintessential hybrid", where the electric motor can provide full drive power (although in earlier versions, because of technical limitations of the drivetrain, it was limited in maximum speed, even with a big enough battery,) and the electric motor was a core component of the drivetrain (as I found out when the inverter on mine failed, rendering the vehicle undriveable.) The Plug-in Prius is basically identical to the regular Prius, just with beefed-up electric motors and power transfer so it can drive in all conditions on electric, and a bigger battery to go further. The Volt is more of a "super hybrid / low-end range-asissted-EV" where it takes Toyota's system and bumps it up even another notch. On the Toyota, the transmission is such that if the gasoline engine is running, its crankshaft is connected to the wheels, even if it is "only providing electric power" (this actually means that when reversing, the Prius' electric motor has to be running twice as fast, since it has to counteract the gas engine going "forward"!) The Volt allows the gas engine to run while "disconnected from the wheels," while also allowing direct-drive for both gas and electric. The i3 is definitely "full range-assisted EV", where the gasoline engine has zero physical connection to the wheels, it acts solely as a generator to charge the batteries, like the graphic towing a Honda generator implies. But at the same time, it *IS* still a "hybrid of gasoline and electric." And those are just the "primary vehicles in each main category" - there are so many other categories, too. Each of the "hybrid gas/electric supercars" (Porsche 918, LaFerrari, McLaren P1, or to a lesser extend the BMW i8) work in their own different ways as well.
@@AnonymousFreakYT > On the Toyota, the transmission is such that if the gasoline engine is running, its crankshaft is connected to the wheels, even if it is "only providing electric power" (this actually means that when reversing, the Prius' electric motor has to be running twice as fast, since it has to counteract the gas engine going "forward"!) Really ? I have a '14 Prius and notice that engine does start when going in reverse about half way through my driveway which is really odd because battery is charged enough and driveway is not that long. I thought why charge battery now, but your comment makes it sounds like it fights it as well ???
@@alaind831 Nearly. If balanced properly, the shaft with the output from the gasoline engine can be perfectly balanced by electricity generation by one of the two motor-generators; thus creating electricity that is fed to the second motor-generator. See ua-cam.com/video/3xeyqGcfb8M/v-deo.html
i hope all companies stops hybrid & making instead PHEV version made with range extender generator, like INNengine amazing tech. it's way better than hybrid & suitable for countries that don't have powerful & ready infrastructure for fast charging! also it's very good for SUVs for off roading!
If the range extender is capable of providing at least the average cruise power, we wouldn't notice the lethargy. The battery can take care of the transient burst in the start . So for a 30Kw electric propulsion, a 20 Kw range extender can be sufficient. burning ethanol / methanol or biodiesel instead of fossil fuel solves the environmental problems. The i3 Rex is on a right track, but need to switch over to turbine generator. You cant have something that needs to be pulled aside on a dark night in a lonely stretch of highway to top up your battery.
The i3 REx is an intriguing concept, but the space-age packaging obviously has created haters. If BMW would make a regular 3 series but give it the same EV & REx setup it would immediately make Tesla's Model 3 obsolete.
Great explanation and spot on. I really want to like the i3, but just reading about all of the challenges owners have experienced changed my mind (join one of the many Facebook pages and you'll see what I'm talking about).
Only California would implement something this STUPID! It makes much more sense to suppliment battery charge on a full time basis. Doing so gains the emission benefits of avoiding start stop gas engine behavior while still extending range to something reasonable.
I avoid range anxiety by driving a 6.7 cummins with 50 gallon aux tank with 81 gallons total for a range of 1,780 miles. Drove 24 hours once without stopping and made it 1600 miles.
We have the i3 WITHOUT the range extender...REX. We chose to go without it because it is loud AND its kinda cheating in a way. What I am waiting for is the i3 with a 250mile range! Come on BMW!
Why did they have to use those cartoonish looking wheels/tires ? The Prius gets excellent mileage without resorting to such extremes. The weirdness of the Prius is just to make it stand out, it could have been as aerodynamic w/o looking so strange.
This is a cool concept that has been poorly executed by crappy Californian regulations. Why does the engine have to stop recharging the battery after it's reached 6.5%? I would much rather have it recharge the battery as much as possible to increase my electric range. These regulations just cripples the concept and makes it not very practical or useful over a traditional hybrid or fully electric vehicle.
+Batmatty logically so that the drive is pushing towards pure ZEV cars. BMW could program it to be different, but then they would not get the credits. The theory is that you'd be more likely to drive it like a hybrid.
They purposely cripple the effectiveness of the gas motor so you are encouraged to drive electric-only. If it's made to be a last resort rather than an option, you don't use it if you don't have to.
If you read the technical aspects of this car, the range extender does not recharge the battery, it only provide power to the electric motor to move the car. There is regeneration or energy capture during slowdown, downhill and braking that sends power to the battery, but the small alternator cannot and will not charge the battery. Only with an outside sourse of power can the battery get energy to store. Thanks.
+Arto Kiiskinen I don't know about that. I've a owned a BMW and one of HF's cheapo $300 Chinese generators, and the BMW was way less reliable. Not joking with you, I'm being serious! The BMW had a lot electrical problems and was an oil guzzler even when new. The generator has worked with every weekend war I'd wage without a single problem for the last 6 years. Never owned one of their trailers though.
1) and you MIGHT receive it in 12 months 2) REx coding only gives marginal advantages on the 2017 33kWh battery 3) Civic is all gasoline. FDW with CVT?? not much fun...
How about highways that have long high speed conveyors? you just need few jump to get in to it and stay there. the conveyor does the rest. why have cars ? (oops , I just invented a train )
If you're planning to go out of range, best to just get a decent hybrid instead of an EV at this point. This is actually a hybrid, but it's trying to be an EV. I'd take Prius prime over this useless thing any day.
I would take the Volt over the Prius prime. The Volt has twice the Electric range and is a much much more powerful and entertaining car to drive. The Prim has better gas efficiency and far more interior room.
A good explanation as to why the government should not be involved in designing our cars. This would be a nice car with a 10-gallon tank and a switch to turn on the gas extender if you want to travel a long distance. Who did Musk pay off to get these rules put into law? It's sad the governments of the world give guys like Musk over a trillion dollars to force us into using Electric vehicles and when a good idea comes along they limit it to being no better than a standard EV that has to haul around a half-ton of batteries. At least this thing has a good heater...
Stopping 2 minutes for gas every 100 miles is much easier than stopping 40 minutes to charge every 100 miles, assuming you can even find a fast charger
In 40 minutes you can add almost 200 miles of range to a Telsa. NO gas stop takes 2 min. Hell in a Tesla you can leave San Francisco with a full charge go to Los Vagas. Charge overnight and not have to stop at all. Same for the 37k Bolt. Time has moved on. The I3 is already obsolete.
Don Cancio I work in the industry, all this crap is forced on carmakers, they would not build these monstrosities of engineering if they weren't forced to to meet cafe and emissions standards, thanks to leftist good vibes that run the bureaucracy of CA.
I charge from solar and tons of people in CA and other states do the same to include Tesla owners. As to grid power, perhaps you have not done proper research that indicates the grid is greener each month with solar, hydro and wind power supplying electricity. More and more coal plants are shutting down and changing to natural gas, thus becoming not only cleaner but more economical or profitable. I wonder, Don, what you mean by "stupid law?" There are so many. Thanks.
Electric propulsion is far better than gas engines. but batteries suck. you need ethanol / methanol / hydrogen as an alternative with supercars providing the temporary storage.
First we replaced the horses, now we are replacing the engines, someday we may replace batteries and by then we are all dead with tons of fossil fuel still left under ground. Use it while you have it.
The thing people don't understand most about the i3 is why BMW decided to sell such a spectacularly ugly car... Mercedes: Check our our ugly little A-Class. BMW: Hold my beer.
hold my stein... Unfortunately, aerodynamics and max-interior volume don't go hand in hand, hence almost all "green" vehicles have a similar overall shape and profile with the I3 being the first mass produced "affordable" carbon fiber chassis.
Im really upset that bmw didnt continue this. It makes so much sense in a big country. They could have put a better genset and big tank so you could literally go 1000kms It has nothing to do with claifornia it was in euro first.
You just explained the best point of i3 better than BMW!
If you have this BMW i3 with Rex you can get the computer to reset to Europe mode.
that way you can put the EV on hold use the gas to charge it at any time.
John C Ahaaaa! I knew it ! We can hack these things and make it work for us ! 👌👍😈
JIGA BACHI yeah..I saw another video on youtube showing a guy in Texas do it.'.the 8 bit guy'
I'm really happy that you explained how this system works. I'll stay with my PHEV, with it's 500 miles of gas in the tank for road trips and enough battery range for daily short commutes.
Why is it so hard to get the information on how far the range extender gets you? If I buy a used i3 with range extender will I actually be able to drive 500 miles in one trip without stopping? I'm trying to find a simple explanation of how far the extender gets you but everyone gets into these overly complex explanations that tell you everything but the most important fact - how far can it get you without stopping on flat ground.
if you buy a pre 2017 i3 you will be able to drive roughly 160 miles without stopping if you set off with a full charge and full tank and drive it sensibly, big elevation changes and climate control usage will reduce this range. If you buy a 2017 i3 you will have a range of about 200 miles before you'll need to stop. Once the battery is low and range extender tank is depleted you can refill the tank and just keep going for another 80ish miles or stop and charge, or both.
It really depends on what your primary use case is. If you usually drive the shorter distance a PHEV can do on just battery, but also take longer road trips fairly often, a PHEV (Prius Prime/Volt/etc) makes sense. If your regular commute is more than PHEV on battery-only, but you rarely take longer road trips (or have another vehicle for those,) the i3 makes a lot of sense.
In our case, the i3 is good for our commute, plus "local road trips" - day trips to the coast, day trips to visit family 100 miles away, etc. While we still have our other car for road trips.
If our commute were shorter, especially if it was just me, not me+spouse, and I only wanted one car, a PHEV would make more sense. But as we need two cars anyway, the i3 makes perfect sense as the "primary longer-commuter" vehicle, with the other car (a non-plug-in Prius) as the shorter commuter car+road trip.)
Very good explanation. True explained better than almost any video out there.
The 6.5% SOC limit is the most obnoxious. Especially when combined with the range limit. It means when you get low on gasoline in REx mode, you have to stop for gas *IMMEDIATELY*. You have only a couple miles of range left. It also means that if you are going to be going on a road trip where you know you'll go a while between gasoline refills, you may be hosed. 160 mile drive, where the last gas station before your destination at the 80 mile mark? Tough luck, you won't have used any gasoline yet, and you'll just barely be squeaking in to your destination.
Got a used i3 REx a couple weeks ago, and took it on a trip to the coast. ~90 miles to the coast, over large hills (or what East Coast USers would call "mountains.") with no gas stations for the second half until you were right at the coast. Made it on just EV power, got there, only to discover that the only level 3 charging station is the wrong connector. Oh well, REx it from there. Drove up the coast, arriving at the next level 3 station with about 3 miles of REx range left. Couldn't have filled with gas at the first town, it hasn't even used any gas left. No gas stations in between.
Had I been allowed to use "Range Hold" mode, I would have done that for the initial trip, and arrived in the first city with gas tank empty, and plenty of electric range; filled up with gas, and not had to worry about charger problems.
The day after I got home, my bluetooth ODB-II adapter arrived, and I unlocked both Range Hold mode and the full tank size. Took another "range stretching" trip yesterday with no problem. "There and back" was pretty much exactly the maximum range of battery+REx, with about half of it on freeway. So I used battery to get to the freeway, then switched to REx for the freeway drive one way, switched back to battery in the city on the other end, back to REx for the freeway drive home, ran out of gas pretty much right when I got off the freeway, with enough electric range left to stop at the gas station and get home with 10 miles to spare. Got home with a full gas tank, and battery to spare, rather than having an "empty" gas tank (really 1/3 full, but with the artificial US limit) and empty battery barely limping in to the gas station.
Great explanation, thanks.
The best and clear explanation I have heard on REX so far. I always have trouble explaining the REX to others.
In 2014-2016 models, the battery is only 22kwhr and they software limit the gas tank to 1.9 gallons to avoid the california law. But its easy to code the BMW to enable to the hold mode and enable full gas tank in older models.
Ah! Thankyou. You've given me the information I needed. Every description I've come across said the extender is only meant to help the I3 make it to the next charging spot. So there's no limitation on refilling the tank. I wonder if you can buy a rig to hold a jerry can on the back.
Love my coded 2015 Rex!
Extremely clear. Subtile compromise between securising autonomy without becoming a sort of diesel-electric car.
It's a true series hybrid.
And memes aside, a detachable trailer with generator is a fantastic idea for EVs. Leave the weight off when you don't need it (regular driving around town), and then just hook up the generator like a bike rack when you want to go further.
I also think that a simple & obvious hack for the i3 is to fit it with a larger gas tank. Change it to a 6 gal tank, and BAM! another 200 mi range. The ultra-poor man hack would be to simply haul around a couple 2 gal cans which you fill up at the same time as the car's tank, so you just pull over, dump one into the car, & continue driving.
Or. Hear me out here. Or. We could take out the big heavy batteries, take out the Ozone creating motors. Put some real tyres on it, expand the floor pan then we can store a container of high density bio solar energy in the back and pipe it to some kind of controlled burner unit at the front that'll extract energy from that high density fuel source and achieve anywhere between 300 to 900 miles per 'charge' That way you don't need a trailer for an electricity generator, instead you can just generator your own useable force locally and you don't need to worry so much about power cell depletion, degradation or sudden explosive failure. Radical I know, hopefully someone will come up with this contained high density combustion energy conversion device.
@@rhedinrage1601 ☺ Love your radical idea.
It sounds vaguely familiar.
Maybe you can convince some Hollywood play actors to endorse it as the Next Big Green Idea.😉
francia lehet berelni
A decade before Tesla there was a small EV sport coupe called the "Tzero" It had an optional towed trailer with a gas generator to extend range in an essentially "series-hybrid" set up. The Volt is probably more affordable and pragmatic. A cheap pure EV for city commuting and renting a regular car for occasional road trips is another way.
I have the i3 REX 2017. 120miles on the battery 100 on the extender. Have taken a 1000 mile road trip with about 1/2 begin on the extender. Never got into limp mode, and never had a problem other than knowing I had to fill the tank often when on the REx.
Tex Mex and this is why I'm definitely investing in a i3 with range extender very very soon.
Great, I think it is an awesome car. Longest electric range in a any plugin-hybrid.
You can drive continuously on the range extender as long as the car has gas, no different than any gas powered car. No it does not overheat. The range extender runs at it's own speed and battery charge will increase of decrease depending your use of power. In stock form the range extender comes on at 6% battery and will turn off at 7%, but you can adjust that with some tinkering. On flat ground 72mph is the max continuous speed on the extender.
If you do run out of gas for the extender, you have about 6 more miles of electric range.
It's not the car I would choose if most of my driving was 200+ mile road trips, but it certainly can go 2-3 thousand miles without plugging in if you need to do that.
It seems like Florida is a perfect state for the I3 REx. Very flat terrain.
Alex, I own a 2014 i3 REX. You can easily get it in "turtle mode" going over Hwy 17. It happened to me once. Now I have the car coded and can switch on the REX manually.
+Thomas Blaesi the 2014 did it a little easier, but it still requires you to exceed the speed limit on 17. Thanks to the larger battery in the 2017 it takes more to get there.
Thom, I live in Sparks Nevada and my concern is going over the mountain to California. Is it fairly easy to get the car coded? Does it make it more like the European models?
I avoided this by getting the i3 BEV and planning my trips well in the first place. No need for a backup.
Unless your planned charging station is down or ICEd...
Excellent video ...
Excellent info, well articulated.
"Perfect is the enemy of good" is how to describe the EV situation. The BEV absolutists are harming their own cause.
After living with a REx for 2 years, it has been both an ideal commuter and road trip car.
25 gallons of gas last year for 24,000 miles of driving (plus $500 of Northwest hydro power) is green enough for us.
Having more range extended vehicles would cut weight of cars (vs BEV), reduce need for both huge batteries and Rare Earth mining. It would allow seamless road trips that don't require half-hour to 6 hour charging stops.
It would nearly eliminate need for a multi-billion $$$ public charging network. It would work for rural folks, high-rise and apartment dwellers.
The cost of running the REx generator for us is about 4x compared to a charge from home, so that's plenty incentive to plug in for pure EV driving.
Alex does the Rex use the 12v battery to start the engine or does it use the generator like most hybrid cars out there.
What is the max kWh this generator can do? I noticed that generator works at different power as well. The faster you drive the harder it works. I’m curious if could hack it just to use as the backup charger than to keep up level of the charge.
I would think if it was possible it would've happened by now. Best I can find is that if you code it to Europe you can manually tell it to come on at 75%. One problem is if your charge drops below that and you stop for gas, the current charge is now the max you can tell it to hold. I've heard you can avoid this by filling up while it's still on using a jerry can but this is a bit sketchy and I've heard it has a pressurised tank and the engine will stop running if you open the gas cap and ruin that pressurisation.
But I don't own one yet, just been doing tons of research as I kind of want one but there are a ton of negative quirks.
The others holding me back are no way to attach a roof rack and the odd tire size only made by one company and rather expensive. Oh, and no spare tire.
I think this works as battery level drops below 65 percent in journey you can start this range extender and this can give some more miles after that much of journey you can wait at a point to charge or if you have DC fast charging facility then it is fabulous you can fast charge and again continue your journey
I think this concept is very nice
Were there changes to the range extender’s output in different years or models? I had a 2017 i3 that would loose battery if driven over 57 mph while on range extender. My newer 2019 seems to do pretty well at 65mph on range extender.
Why haven't 'range extenders' become popular? For me it eliminates the range anxiety of all electric.
I know. Especially larger vehicles will benefit greatly. I also heard turbines are actually better as range extenders because they burn more cleanly.
very enlightening vid, tx
Does the thermal battery management work well on these cars
permanentwave yes it does it’s refrigerant based and as long as your air conditioning blows cold/warm air when you want it it will be fine
I had to come and like this video just for the thumbnail
it's hard to convince all the gas sippers out there that a 2.4g 100 miles tank wont give them range anguish. In that respect, the Gen2 Volt makes so much more sense with it's 600km tank.
Funny thing is that after 18 months of driving a Gen2 Volt, it's when I drive my legacy gas car that I'm nervous about the gas tank.
Alex is one of my favourite car review channels. others are Marek drives, Kelly and Autogefuhl
The BMW I3 REX is the true EV car available on the market today. Tesla is not and so do all other Hybrid/PHEVs. Tesla is a battery car and Honda/Toyota/Nissan/Chevy Hybrid is a combustion engine. They don't have a stand-alone built-in electric generator so when the battery dead or the combustion engine is dead they all die. It is so stupid to think that Tesla is an electric car when it does not have an electric generator. Tesla is just like a battery toy car period. IBM i3 REX has redefined the electric car and if people know the difference between these cars they will not buy the 300 Miles battery pack from Tesla or a combustion engine from Toyota.
I wonder what would happen if you had a gas tank with a pump and added fuel while driving in REX mode. Would it figure out that something's wrong and shut down, or just keep going forever?
Any idea on when you might be reviewing the Kia stinger?
No word but it is likely that it will haver a launch event in the next 2-3 months
Does it have an alternator or how is it charging the battery
permanentwave generator aka huge alternator the drive battery is about 400v dc
So just to confirm, if you change it to European mode, set it to maintain 75%, then hill climb or drive too fast, dropping the battery to, say, 70%, and then pull over and stop, the REx will recharge it back up to 75% while stopped?
You don't answer whether the range extender will kick on if you reach 6.5% while it's parked. In other words, will the onboard generator re-charge while it is parked?
warranty, battery replacement??? how, when, how much, etc ??
The 6.5% limit is the deal breaker. If the generator would charge to 100%, that would work for a lot of people.
But then it wouldn't qualify for the full electric credit.
If the i3REX is treated the same as i3 by California why do they get green HOV stickers vs
white?
With synthetic fuels in the future this will be very green!
If for whatever reason, the battery went flat and a charging station or 110v outlet was not available, with the car parked, how long would the engine have to run to get the battery charged?
that's not how it works. You'd keep driving if the battery was really low, and the REx would bring the level back up to 6.5%.
In all cases of an range extender system, the "engine" does not charge nor recharge the batteries. Same for Plug In Hybrid technology. ONLY hybrid technology vehicles charge the batteries as they are small and there is no alternative. The only way to resolve a dead EV with or without a range extender motor is to have it towed to a place that has power available, 110 or 240 or, in this case like others that have DC fast charging ports, to such a place. Thanks.
i3 REx generator maintains charge when operating the vehicle. In other words, it charges the battery to restore it to the level when the REx was first turned on. In special cases, the REx can be used to recharge a battery, but only by a few percent (forcing a maintenance cycle via software.)
Wow, this is so informative. Shame on BMW for not disclosing this upon selling the range extender option. My fiancee and I have been hit by "turtle" mode at least half a dozen times. In the video on this Reddit post we were on a hill that wasn't even that long or steep and were slowed all the way to 0mph: www.reddit.com/r/BmwTech/comments/iy08qc/should_this_be_recalled_or_nah/
Wow that's nuts!!
So the Volt and Prime aren't plug-in hybrid cars.
This explanation is practically telling me to avoid the i3 REX. Not that I was ever interested in it.
Cedric M this explanation is wrong. When you have the range extender it doesn't mean you drive 34HP. I drove that car for a week wile my 328i was in service. It's just charging the battery. You still have the 170 HP.
Perhaps you would say the same thing for the electric Vespa or any electric scooter or a Ford F250 pickup truck? Of course, all vehicles have a specific market goal with the specifics setting the limits. As to this vehicle, it is extremely efficient and versatile for many, much like a Chevy Corvette, which BTW, sells all models before they are built. So, enjoy what you drive and most EV owners, range extender or not, are happy as to paying from nothing to very little for fuel for daily activities. My Nissan Leaf does everything I want and need for city and regional needs and with solar power, I pay very little for power for home and car. Enjoy your ride. Thanks.
@Alex On Autos was wondering your take on CARB? I like the idea of low pollution but think they are too agenda driven. I feel more of a focus should be on coal power plants, airplanes, commercial trucks, and cow flatulence. I feel that petrol passenger cars are very efficient. I do not like the mandate on EVs. I consider you more of an expert on this than myself and curious on your thought. I want V8s to still be alive. I love cars. I feel CARB wants us back in the 80s.
The I3 is , to my knowledge, the only hybrid whit rapid charger capability. That is another big difference.
+Francois Morin as far as I know that's right, mainly because of the large battery capacity
I respectfully disagree with the term "Hybrid" for his car and all electric vehicles with a range extender. Why? Becuase there is a category of technology, defined by the Toyota Prius, that includes the term for all cars with self charging capacity for the battery. Typically, a hybrid is a car that has stop/start capablity, perhaps a bit of range in electric mode, but without a plug, these cars cannot go far on electricity. My 2008 Mercury Mariner hybrid, with a Jurrasic battery, can go less than a mile, at slow speed and without AC, on electricity. More modern versions, such as the Ford Fusion hybrid, have more capacity as the batteries are better as well as the software. But an EV with a range extender is not a "hybrid" since it does not fit that description of self charging the battery. Thanks.
There are just so many possible categories for "vehicle with an electric motor and an internal combustion engine."
The old Chevy hybrid pickups were "barely hybrid" where the electric motor didn't provide any real direct power-to-the-wheels, it was more used as a high-powered starter to enable auto start-stop at stop lights.
The older Honda system was a weaker "low-end hybrid" where it added a little bit of drive power, but not enough to actually drive the car solely on electric (it was also connected directly to the engine's crankshaft,) although in later versions, they did beef it up enough to provide a small amount of direct-drive power.
Toyota's is the "quintessential hybrid", where the electric motor can provide full drive power (although in earlier versions, because of technical limitations of the drivetrain, it was limited in maximum speed, even with a big enough battery,) and the electric motor was a core component of the drivetrain (as I found out when the inverter on mine failed, rendering the vehicle undriveable.) The Plug-in Prius is basically identical to the regular Prius, just with beefed-up electric motors and power transfer so it can drive in all conditions on electric, and a bigger battery to go further.
The Volt is more of a "super hybrid / low-end range-asissted-EV" where it takes Toyota's system and bumps it up even another notch. On the Toyota, the transmission is such that if the gasoline engine is running, its crankshaft is connected to the wheels, even if it is "only providing electric power" (this actually means that when reversing, the Prius' electric motor has to be running twice as fast, since it has to counteract the gas engine going "forward"!) The Volt allows the gas engine to run while "disconnected from the wheels," while also allowing direct-drive for both gas and electric.
The i3 is definitely "full range-assisted EV", where the gasoline engine has zero physical connection to the wheels, it acts solely as a generator to charge the batteries, like the graphic towing a Honda generator implies. But at the same time, it *IS* still a "hybrid of gasoline and electric."
And those are just the "primary vehicles in each main category" - there are so many other categories, too. Each of the "hybrid gas/electric supercars" (Porsche 918, LaFerrari, McLaren P1, or to a lesser extend the BMW i8) work in their own different ways as well.
@@AnonymousFreakYT > On the Toyota, the transmission is such that if the gasoline engine is running, its crankshaft is connected to the wheels, even if it is "only providing electric power" (this actually means that when reversing, the Prius' electric motor has to be running twice as fast, since it has to counteract the gas engine going "forward"!)
Really ? I have a '14 Prius and notice that engine does start when going in reverse about half way through my driveway which is really odd because battery is charged enough and driveway is not that long. I thought why charge battery now, but your comment makes it sounds like it fights it as well ???
@@alaind831 Nearly. If balanced properly, the shaft with the output from the gasoline engine can be perfectly balanced by electricity generation by one of the two motor-generators; thus creating electricity that is fed to the second motor-generator. See ua-cam.com/video/3xeyqGcfb8M/v-deo.html
People hack these cars and charge at will
i hope all companies stops hybrid & making instead PHEV version made with range extender generator, like INNengine amazing tech. it's way better than hybrid & suitable for countries that don't have powerful & ready infrastructure for fast charging! also it's very good for SUVs for off roading!
If the range extender is capable of providing at least the average cruise power, we wouldn't notice the lethargy. The battery can take care of the transient burst in the start . So for a 30Kw electric propulsion, a 20 Kw range extender can be sufficient. burning ethanol / methanol or biodiesel instead of fossil fuel solves the environmental problems. The i3 Rex is on a right track, but need to switch over to turbine generator. You cant have something that needs to be pulled aside on a dark night in a lonely stretch of highway to top up your battery.
Wow! The California 6.5% rule is stupid...
The i3 REx is an intriguing concept, but the space-age packaging obviously has created haters. If BMW would make a regular 3 series but give it the same EV & REx setup it would immediately make Tesla's Model 3 obsolete.
Now what would be cool (still cheating but COOL) would be a REX thats engine was a little TURBINE engine.....THAT would sound cool!
Great explanation and spot on. I really want to like the i3, but just reading about all of the challenges owners have experienced changed my mind (join one of the many Facebook pages and you'll see what I'm talking about).
I always thought the government had no place in interfering with businesses? What happened to that? Clearly not America anymore
Blake Swan BigBrother ALWAYS knows whats better for you. 😩😳😣👎
Only California would implement something this STUPID! It makes much more sense to suppliment battery charge on a full time basis. Doing so gains the emission benefits of avoiding start stop gas engine behavior while still extending range to something reasonable.
Pfft !!! Silly little car ! Excellent explanation. I don't know how you remember all that stuff.
maybe one day some genius could hack the software allowing customised settings and an unlimited sized fuel tank?
I avoid range anxiety by driving a 6.7 cummins with 50 gallon aux tank with 81 gallons total for a range of 1,780 miles. Drove 24 hours once without stopping and made it 1600 miles.
Damalia Marsi great until the world is over 160f 50c then we’ll have to move on wards
the laws in calif...are so idiotic
We have the i3 WITHOUT the range extender...REX. We chose to go without it because it is loud AND its kinda cheating in a way. What I am waiting for is the i3 with a 250mile range! Come on BMW!
mivan ha akkumlator csoportokat hasznalok super kondenzator + gel +1 csoport +2 csoport auto chang
Why did they have to use those cartoonish looking wheels/tires ? The Prius gets excellent mileage without resorting to such extremes. The weirdness of the Prius is just to make it stand out, it could have been as aerodynamic w/o looking so strange.
nemhallottam az electromos autok uzemenyag limitjerol hol talalok leirast
This is a cool concept that has been poorly executed by crappy Californian regulations. Why does the engine have to stop recharging the battery after it's reached 6.5%? I would much rather have it recharge the battery as much as possible to increase my electric range. These regulations just cripples the concept and makes it not very practical or useful over a traditional hybrid or fully electric vehicle.
+Batmatty logically so that the drive is pushing towards pure ZEV cars. BMW could program it to be different, but then they would not get the credits. The theory is that you'd be more likely to drive it like a hybrid.
They purposely cripple the effectiveness of the gas motor so you are encouraged to drive electric-only. If it's made to be a last resort rather than an option, you don't use it if you don't have to.
If you read the technical aspects of this car, the range extender does not recharge the battery, it only provide power to the electric motor to move the car. There is regeneration or energy capture during slowdown, downhill and braking that sends power to the battery, but the small alternator cannot and will not charge the battery. Only with an outside sourse of power can the battery get energy to store. Thanks.
That is completely untrue, the REX generator does in-fact charge the battery, and the battery in turn powers the drive motor.
+Ramon Cardona you are a clueless moron
I think the Harbor Freight generator and trailer setup would be cheaper....and more reliable than BMW's range extender system.
well, you would be wrong.
+Arto Kiiskinen I don't know about that. I've a owned a BMW and one of HF's cheapo $300 Chinese generators, and the BMW was way less reliable. Not joking with you, I'm being serious! The BMW had a lot electrical problems and was an oil guzzler even when new. The generator has worked with every weekend war I'd wage without a single problem for the last 6 years. Never owned one of their trailers though.
I think you could buy a Harbor Freight generator and trailer for the cost of one BMW headlamp bulb.
The REx engine is very reliable. Manufacturers are even putting that very generator on flying vehicles.
My I3 has been reliable for the duration of the lease; only a few months left; never had an issue with the Rex.
Or
1) You can buy a Model 3
2) Jail Break the i3 BEVx
C) Buy a Civic, which would be more logical than an i3 BEVx
1) and you MIGHT receive it in 12 months
2) REx coding only gives marginal advantages on the 2017 33kWh battery
3) Civic is all gasoline. FDW with CVT?? not much fun...
yes! more EVs please!
600cc is allot for just a generator
How about highways that have long high speed conveyors? you just need few jump to get in to it and stay there. the conveyor does the rest. why have cars ? (oops , I just invented a train )
It's pretty dumb this doesn't have a hold mode.
Berrymouse he just said that California mandate doesn’t permit this
I bought a diesel truck and added a 60 gallon diesel tank. 1200 miles easy, no stopping unless I want to. I avoid California like the plague.
BMW ......Fail......Fail. What a cluster F. If you must have an I3 just buy a used 2014 under warranty and under 10,000 miles for 15k.
That's exactly what we did and we love it. We also live in a mountainous area.
You just had to speed up the intro, didn't you...?
If you're planning to go out of range, best to just get a decent hybrid instead of an EV at this point. This is actually a hybrid, but it's trying to be an EV. I'd take Prius prime over this useless thing any day.
But driving is so much different. I drove both of them. Toyota is not moving
I would take the Volt over the Prius prime. The Volt has twice the Electric range and is a much much more powerful and entertaining car to drive. The Prim has better gas efficiency and far more interior room.
This sounds really compromised
A good explanation as to why the government should not be involved in designing our cars. This would be a nice car with a 10-gallon tank and a switch to turn on the gas extender if you want to travel a long distance. Who did Musk pay off to get these rules put into law? It's sad the governments of the world give guys like Musk over a trillion dollars to force us into using Electric vehicles and when a good idea comes along they limit it to being no better than a standard EV that has to haul around a half-ton of batteries. At least this thing has a good heater...
ewww getting gas every 100+ miles, talk about annoying
It's an electric vehicles. You should not refill it every 100+ miles. Actually, yes, every 100+ miles. Like 1000 or 5000 miles.
you should pay attention to the video
Stopping 2 minutes for gas every 100 miles is much easier than stopping 40 minutes to charge every 100 miles, assuming you can even find a fast charger
In 40 minutes you can add almost 200 miles of range to a Telsa. NO gas stop takes 2 min.
Hell in a Tesla you can leave San Francisco with a full charge go to Los Vagas. Charge overnight and not have to stop at all. Same for the 37k Bolt. Time has moved on. The I3 is already obsolete.
not obsolete, but there's a reason an i3 selling for $50k two years ago is worth about $20k now.
Is California the worst?
All that effort for a stupid law. How do people charge that thing, from a coal power plant?
Don Cancio I work in the industry, all this crap is forced on carmakers, they would not build these monstrosities of engineering if they weren't forced to to meet cafe and emissions standards, thanks to leftist good vibes that run the bureaucracy of CA.
your head is stuck in America. Look around the planet. EVs are gaining ground everywhere...
I charge from solar and tons of people in CA and other states do the same to include Tesla owners. As to grid power, perhaps you have not done proper research that indicates the grid is greener each month with solar, hydro and wind power supplying electricity. More and more coal plants are shutting down and changing to natural gas, thus becoming not only cleaner but more economical or profitable. I wonder, Don, what you mean by "stupid law?" There are so many. Thanks.
Electric propulsion is far better than gas engines. but batteries suck. you need ethanol / methanol / hydrogen as an alternative with supercars providing the temporary storage.
It would be perfect if it weren't this ugly and the tank wasn't limited
The second rule is complete bullshit
First we replaced the horses, now we are replacing the engines, someday we may replace batteries and by then we are all dead with tons of fossil fuel still left under ground. Use it while you have it.
And the hell with plants animals and the future generations don't care about your son's future or your grandchildren
simple solution, manufacturers stop selling cars in California, Americans don't care about that place as 89% Americans do not live in that state
The thing people don't understand most about the i3 is why BMW decided to sell such a spectacularly ugly car... Mercedes: Check our our ugly little A-Class. BMW: Hold my beer.
The i3 has so many great innovations & features. But its f'ugliness and cardboard/burlap interior just ruin it.
not all people care about the looks of the car. It is a awesome driving experience, the i3
Maybe they figured since it worked for the Prius, it would work for them, without realizing that their reliability is on polar opposites.
hold my stein... Unfortunately, aerodynamics and max-interior volume don't go hand in hand, hence almost all "green" vehicles have a similar overall shape and profile with the I3 being the first mass produced "affordable" carbon fiber chassis.
pedro fernandez LMAO 😂👍
i3 is a neutered BMW
DSAK55 why I’m I wasting my time on a comment like this
Ensure plead highway ban education racial expense.
Im really upset that bmw didnt continue this. It makes so much sense in a big country. They could have put a better genset and big tank so you could literally go 1000kms It has nothing to do with claifornia it was in euro first.