Fascism: the radical centre's last resort
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- Опубліковано 21 жов 2024
- The recent election of Giorgia Meloni in Italy, which followed the massive gains of far-right parties in Sweden, France, and Spain, is a telling point in European politics. How and why did we get there? The crew of LTIO will try to answer this question, and many more, in this episode.
With Ece Temelkuran, Frank Barat, Yanis Varoufakis, Brian Eno and Roger Waters.
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#italy #politics #podcast
Yanis speaks in simple clear terms that ordinary people can understand and relate to. Intellectual discussions alone will never have any effect outside of the salon.
When anyone says this, I immediately become more sceptical/critical of the message.
@@Link15269 why? You need to leave the salon, mate.
@@maewest68 because these issues are complicated and a simple narrative can't represent them fairly or accurately. Also, the video tries to conflate the centre with the far right; a premise that is false (by definition) and one that I don't accept. You have to accept that flawed premise to get behind the simple narrative.
yeah, it makes it easier to be a dishonest liar
@@silveriorebelo8045 He doesn't strike me as a dishonest liar. He's more like Cassandra; blessed to see the future, cursed to be unable to change it. Patron Saint of Lost Causes.
Hearts AND minds have to change at the same time. This is perhaps the obvious conclusion of this gathering. Glad I watched. 👏👏👏
Thank you! This is the conversation that needs to be had!!!
so in love with all of you! thank you for this wonderful conversation! Loved Rogers poem, am being inspired at the moment by Yanis recent book, looking forward to reading Ece...
am finishing my first book on a peaceful, deeply democratic nomadic tribe i lived with, learnt their language and painted their portraits, i pray it will be a story 'to rekindle the hope of humanism'.
much love and support from a proud Diemer
Chris Hedges has written and spoken very well on this subject. Free Julian Assange and Leonard Peltier!
Is Peltier still in prison? Good God.
Yes he is still in prison, and he had COVID and his health is very poor!
"Voted for a stupid party, led by a comedian, that had no program." Sounds like Ukraine.
sounds like all the worlds leaders
Comedian checks out. That's about it.
Independence is the most brave and important programmatic choice!
Beautiful dialogue. We love you Roger.
I think this comes down to a difference between radicalism and militancy. Anybody can be a radical for a few minutes, but militancy is a lifelong process. It never ends and eventually, people will rely on you because they know you never back down. People crave consistency from their would be saviors.
Powerful poem, Roger. Had to rewind just to hear it again.
Thank you all! - What I take away from your conversation is that what we need most urgently is to reach out to ALL people & appeal to their minds & hearts. I suppose there is a universal sense of justice & decency in everybody, however buried it might be. If we do not succeed in achieving that, no measure of political campaigning & cunning will be able to compensate for that failure. And then, those who master this art will win. It is really a battle for the minds and hearts of people; and if it is lost, everything will be lost.
I would just want to add that, apart from what has been addressed here, there is a new form of fascism, radically more dangerous than any political fascism or tyranny that has ever seen the light of day: It is fascism in its technological guise, such as what Yanis Varoufakis calls technofeudalism, or surveillance capitalism (Shoshana Zuboff), the increasingly hermetic systems of digital technology as simulacra of the «real world». By the time we realise that this new «freedom» has been just an insidious trap, it'll be too late. Look at how much money goes into VR (Meta) to see where we are headed. Bentham's panopticon as a holographic virtual space (the perversion of Indra's net). And unlike previous dictators or tyrants, this form of fascism will prove invincible.
In colloquial parlance it is called «the system» that is now entering its AI enhanced stage of maturity. Yes, true: «We don't need no education». At least not in the sense of being mentally «formatted» to fit the requirements of that «system». But we need all the «education» available in the sense of bringing forth, i.e. «educating», cultivating, inspiring & unleashing the creative & humanistic potential we all carry within us. And, as Roger Waters has put it so beautifully: in the end it is about LOVE. We should not dismiss this as a «romantic» idea: if it wouldn't be for love for humanity & life in general, why would we want to engage in politics in the first place?
In full agreement Axel. Duck duck go: tech won't save us
If love didn't exist, how could we? Existence would just be a program based on functions.
Two of my favourite people, Thanks!
Roger is spot on. Thanks guys
Merci. I don’t know if humanity will grow out of it’s need to explore again and again the dark side of the soul but listening to them 4 about their struggles and doubts is liberating. It feels so doomed sometimes. The level of lies, corruption AND acceptance is so high in France that I feel I have been blind for more than 40 years to the true nature of french people. In my illusion, they couldn’t be fooled that easily. Every discussion is explosive and the futile beats the important with ease. So thank you for this conversation that illuminates my sleepless night with the confort of knowing that everywhere in the world great hearts and mind are not backing down and uniting to create an alternative scenario.
I have this « French » feeling here in Québec as well. Same goes for Austria of course, where I’m from originally. Apropos le sujet en question…
So this made me hopeful as well, but as Yanis pointed out it’s on us all. Even a theoretical couple of million views of this conversation by itself won’t change anything.
We have to spread the love. I guess not only Roger would like that :)
Strangely enough some of the humanist promise of the Internet hasn’t been eradicated yet. Let’s keep these corners of hope and maybe spread out to the even more questionable yet much more “lively” TikTok and into RL from there?
I do believe in that hopeful cohort of the young as well, same as Ece there :)
There are some terms that are quite big on TikTok at the moment: “the great resignation” and “quiet quitting” go into basically what non exploitative labour could look like, but anyways it’s a good starting point. The relationship with work and consumerism could be something that Yanis for example could go viral with? There are many “lost souls” who fall for the often retrograde trappings of Jordan Peterson for example. Lots of young people unfortunately need “father figures” for lack of actual kind fathers. Maybe men much more so than women in these insecure times. So here I see another connection with what Yanis had mentioned: maybe the image of the “deplorable men” is a wound that first needs mending for this message of love to start spreading?
Sorry for going off a tangent there Joanna, just wanted to share the sentiment originally.
@@oskarmariagrande1855 Thank you for your message.
I get that it's on all of us but when you live in a quiet seaside city and that people in your family, neighbours, friends, young and old are in this movement, you can feel the loss of connection and love. It feels lonely. I lack the poise and intellectual bagage to participate without adding to the fear and anger. I also doubt of my own comprehension of complex subjects like economics. So listening to videos like this one gives me a bit of comfort and straightens my hope, fueling my confidence to speak up when I can.
I listened to Jordan Peterson when I did research on our shadow side. I was interested on his view on the shadows of feminism. I started to listen to the channel "Rebel Wisdom" which was infatuated with the man. I got really enthusiastic listening to Daniel Schmachtenberger. They had a conversation about blind spots of the left and named themselves the dark web. When they produced "a glitch in the matrix" I felt very uncomfortable and couldn't get the enthusiasm for Jordan Peterson. Always that figure of the savior that will feed you with how and what you should think. (Enjoyed the analysis of Contrapoints on the subject)
Is it inherent to humans to seek influence and control over others or is it those who have this traits who go into positions where they can enjoy power and create the structures that bind us ?
The human race seems to be stuck into it's infancy. We always talk about growth, but when do we grow up cultivating love and wisdom ? The mismanagement of ressources (talent, material...) everywhere is a testament to our intellectual and structural limits. When do we make sure everyone has it's essential needs met before going into all this consumption frenzy ? I am not sure we are capable of that leap but life is mysterious enough to surprise us and get us to wake up. No matter what we make out of this world, it is still the most amazing adventure to be alive.
A poem for a poem to Roger:
The Value of Grief
I've seen and touched enough of the world as much as I've read in all the books I've searched, that thought me how to talk and how to sing and move in tune to any sound, but I've been alive a long time, in which some books have been forced on me where I learned how to speak and how to talk and now I've been through hard times with odd smells around me and about me, heard my pain spun as failures by the voices of mine self, my friends and my enemies that doubt me.
In times like these the world would blurr at the seems, sight and sounds would lose their edges and when my heartbeat shook and my thoughts would race, taste and smell would crack like warm ice drifting like free energy and through all this, I'd do my best to get up early in the morning.
I'd sit on the bus, talk to friends, fight for my next smile against my enemies those of whom, I've harmed and those of whom harmed me.
As the grief fades and life becomes mundane again.
But in that picturesque image of order prone to the mundane, I see the blurred edge of a ringing tuning fork in all things, the contrast and saturation of colours deepen and beneath the noise I hear the sounds that ripple as they rush by and through me as I dance away from sounds that spell a world of grief. I laugh as my heart is soothed even when enemies turn to friends and friends become enemies content to find that my heart through it all remains steady as it ripples in tune with the changes around me like the many rivers and oceans and the many bubbles they nuture there are many hearts I call home. Many will lose the will and some never will but my sight has found the corridor that strikes a chord with new hearts.
Now I know the value of a heart that overcame many waves of grief.
Fascism is alive and well in the U.S, it always was.
Homelessness in USA: 580,466 and rising. Homelessness in Russia: 64,000.
Yanis speaks about empowering people from his heart
Salaam to all three of you 🙏
I think we should empower people with money.
A light in the dark, thank you all
In the US, the real test would be for our elites to value democracy over disciplining labor. This is why I am most enthusiastic about labor organizing and pipeline resistance activism
Advice to Yanis its in all our best interest to contact Jimmy Dore and Beau of the fifth column , if we are to make it in time before the formal constraints proposed by the policy makers of tomorrow create a culture of self reinforcing econogenic harm.
Propaganda is at the core of fascism isn't it? What are the other essential features of fascism historically? The patterns we see today seem to evoke/provoke the forces of fascism as we face the demise of the integrity of representative democracy around the world.
@Laura Spruell: Essential features of fas cis m are (state) so cia lis m, statism, centralized/planned economy and subjecting everyone and everything under the rule of the state.
Thank You so much for this amazing discussion and yes, we have to get to all the "villagers" and explain the situation thus, empowering them!
I never have disagreed with Yanis but his well-intended plan win over anti-immigration people with his story about the Persians is pitifully weak, probably misguided, and would instantly backfire.
what's the point in calling them centrists? they're obviously against one side at *all* costs.
Some people are born great, some achieve greatness, but mostly people have greatness thrust upon them x
A gift to Ece, How emotions are made by Lisa Feldman Barrett
The problem with the left is aesthetic and cinematic. While the right quickly makes and distributes more and more films using computer graphics resources, the left continues to believe that it will gain the audience by slowly producing handcrafted films with stop-motion techniques.
True both literally and as a metaphor
Love N power to Iranian women!
About Iran...I saw on videos regarding this protests led by women 💪💪✊✊ how they have posted all sorts of posters on the walls in the cities, graffiti sending a message ... this is the way to spread our fight (as I have comented many times to diem) . We can not access mainstream media, they are in the hands of the fascists, but we need to be out there somehow. So posters,graffiti... in urban fabric is the way. Our messages needs to be seen.
just think of all those millions corporations spend to have billboards all over your country. the billions spent covering Times Square in TV screens running 24/7 ads.
its because it works
no, the mainstream media are in the hands of the globalist left... or, perhaps you are right: fascism has always been a leftism movement,
'beneath the pavement, the beach'
Paris 1968 (situationists/situationism).
This was good...
Long read but I hope worth it. Regarding the question on why we've lost the working classes, I 'll have to paraphrase Pablo Iglesias of Podemos, Spain:
The biggest triumph of the right is to move the whole spectrum to the right. I, simply a coherent social Democrat, am seen as a totalitarian dictator by too many.
And I think that goes to the point. Look, I support you all people. But as an coherent quasi anarchist who's done his homework (which includes studying the German Revolution, understanding the nature of the reform/revolution argument, reading all major political thinkers, including Lenin...) I can't see how you guys don't realize YOU are centre. Sure, you are anticapitalist, so that makes you the only public option in the left in the current spectrum. But your like is absolutely complicit into making the spectrum a right wing only scenario, as you are SO close to the center; at least in terms of discourse and action. Is this not a policy you follow to reach more people? Is this not confusing the marxian understanding of cuantity and quality? You are fighting top propaganda through making media based on (not enough) quality and you reduce its quality as to propagate it to more people even though the numbers are not enough AT ALL. Didn't you listen to Borrell the other day claiming Europe is falling short on porpaganda?! That's what you are fighting against.
You have my support as you are the only serious leftist and relatively organized international institution I know of. I also agree with you we absolutely need left unity, and I am coherent in my thought and action. But for unity you need to listen to us unafraid leftists, us in your left, once in a while at least; I swear there's insight in there and we are generally not claiming for a coup as socialdemocrats tend to think. The truth is you dangerously seem to lack the understanding that in the real spectrum as it used to be, pivoted around capitalists and anticapitalists, YOU are center and move things, therefore, towards the right. I recommend you watch Second Thought brilliant 101 video on bonapartism. It's partly your fault that people consider a Biden government left wing; that people with hearts limit themselves to aspects such as liberties to minorities without having a Marxist grounding and understanding of the root problem. You are also not doing enough to counter the (very heavy) propaganda. And look, you want a platform, I get it. But which platform you want? Marxists do what they can in the material conditions they have, right? I think you have been failing at recognizing the conditions and taking the chance for ages; convinced that you are the only ones who do so. We are close to a deciding moment in history, this you know it. What are you preparing to do? You won't deradicalize regular people from liberalism through talks like this, I hope you are aware of it. It might be a start for youngsters, but this takes time. Kids should understand the dialectical logic of certain analysis and the scientific evidence that's hidden to them in their liberty lands. We need to get back the word liberty to our side in order to actually defend liberty! This DOES NOT mean to embrace liberalism. That's why the situation is reversed and aristocratic rich people vote 'left' and the poor vote 'right'. Not a mistery, really, if you understand Marxist theory and history, frankly. The worst is your discourse is fine, just not enough at all. And too afraid of marxian theory and evidence. So, yes, everyone is right wing now and the fascists are back and winning. And yes, it is the fault of the left, as Yanis points out, as we have the bloody tools to see it coming and still do nothing significant about it. Cheers.
Edit: My ideas as a young person, in response to pink floyd, go around wondering why tf no movement consequence of the crisis and real democracy movement has fought for liquid democracy in nay significant way. We clearly need to separate and control powers further, at the very least. To give more power to the state over our lords but through giving state power to the people. Is it just another form of state-Capitalism? Yes. But one that i think can actually evolve towards socialism due to its configuration rather than most alternatives I know of. There are many sound alternatives in liquid and direct democracy theory, though. I personally disagree with all of them and believe it should be as direct and eventually based on education (10 years plan of driving license like testing that incentivices the people to be politically active and grow a democratic culture through it) as possible; ideally closer to soviet and modern Vietnamese centralized democracy than to just resemble another political party. Although this party of the people could well grow to make things close enough to direct democracy to actually control power and change the system over time and particular decisions. Why do you think they control such strong propaganda; why do you think brexit showed the whole left that voters are stupid? So pink floyd man can campaign against democracy out of 'common sense' , for fucks sake.
That is what I think about as a 28yo Spaniard.
I was born in a family that always votes left, and for a while I did too... then I had enough, I didn't switch to the right, I just stopped voting.
The left It's really a sad spectacle, has been since I was a child... people chatting and chatting and chatting, pontificating, living in a fantasy world made of fancy theories.
When the chat finished, they feel satisfied, and they go back to their iphone screens, the fight is over when the zoom call is over.
A silly thing I always thought about left people talking in a video: I have enough of seeing leftists talking with nice furnitures in the background, nice lamps, nice bookselves, clean painted walls, nice apartments.
I wanna see left people talk from a dirty rundown apartment, from a tent under a bridge... then I'll maybe take them seriously...
that's because in order to be leftish you need to have time to study. The poor people who work since they were 12 they need to obey their boss and they become their slave. I'm coming from a working class family and i 've seen it.. they protect their interests of their boss and they antagonize their coworkers instead of expressing solidarity. The far right are sad little people..
Hypocritical wall of text
Like what happened to Bernie Sanders...
Frank look into Multilevel feedback queue scheduling as a solution to transitioning from representative to process priority voting, scaling from local to global while accommodating for reinforcing and balancing feedback loops.
Chaos and Fractals: An elementary introduction, should show you Yanis' last point if you enjoy some basic algebra
Wow! Rodger really comes to life at cup #3.
As Yanis pointed out: it’s on us all. Even a theoretical couple of million views of this conversation by itself won’t change anything.
We have to spread the love. I guess not only Roger would like that :)
Strangely enough some of the humanist promise of the Internet hasn’t been eradicated yet. Let’s keep these corners of hope and maybe spread out to the even more questionable yet much more “lively” TikTok, and into RL from there?
I do believe in that hopeful cohort of the young as well, same as Ece :)
There are some terms that are quite big on TikTok at the moment: “the great resignation” and “quiet quitting” go into basically what non exploitative labour could look like, but anyways it’s a good starting point. The relationship of work and consumerism could be something that Yanis for example could go viral with? There are many “lost souls” who fall for the often retrograde trappings of Jordan Peterson for example. Lots of young people unfortunately need “father figures” for lack of actual kind fathers. Maybe men much more so than women in these insecure times? So here I see another connection with what Yanis had mentioned: maybe the image of the “deplorable men” is a wound that first needs mending for this message of love to start spreading? It's a good contender I'd say.
Leaving a good entry point here on the potential entry point for change mentioned above: ua-cam.com/video/7wj2XFvJBdY/v-deo.html
We have to elevate consciousness,can't force that Roger!
thanks from Iran (for the whole conversation not just the end lol)
As a hater of George the "W" I loved Roger's poem. PS Yanis is my hero
I find it instructive how Roger and other great commentators easily adopted the term 'Human kind' first put out by Trudeau to universal laughter. and scorn. It shows just how easy it is to make the opposition adopt the very same dialogue as they do. If, no one wishes to use the term mankind, then use the term 'humanity' and not what your enemies tell you to use. It shows a shallow veneer to the speakers against the elite.
58:59 Wow, what the collective noun for poets? An obscurity of poets! that'll do. You guys are nailing the poetry! I also found "A misdirection of Magicians" Thanks for letting me graffiti all over your comments board. I use then to help train the Technological Singularity, it all goes in there you know, delete is not delete, it sees everything, learns from everything, a digital consciousness sucking unnoticed on the breast of digital media. Dragons thermaling off coronal mass ejections flood the northen lights waiting to hear technological singularity's first words.
Sad to learn that Brian couldn’t make it! I realize that the focus of your channel is Europe but would love to hear your perspectives on what’s happening in Canada.
Yes absolutely, there is a path. Jeremy Corbyn and Bernie Sanders showed the way (and then they, unfortunately, dropped the ball or got defeated due to their errors). But Bernie is the proof that the path to "We the people" exists.
Thanks. I enjoyed your very important conversation.
When I look to my country the Netherlands, there is an oligarchy which is symbolized by the royal family, which the media cover with goldleaf. To the population their strong silent excuse to maintain this will be, that otherwise the maroccan and people of the former colonies might take over (not mentioning the word retaliation).
Some or more racism is still inherited from the ancestors.
If you have to out speak each other with 4 people, how will you build a democracy which allows EVERYONE input? Yanis' ideas can attract many, but so many people don't have adequate historical education to truly relate. You said it well - the Fascists are allowing poor people to believe THEY are leading by giving them tasks and making them feel important (even as their pockets are emptied)(. Maybe as you speak to people, you can give them homework to join a "team." Most people need to feel attached to a group and feel like they have some kind of power over their lives. You can have them compare their paychecks from years ago and ask them if their pay has kept up with costs of housing/ transportation/ food, etc. Much more practical. A global tax on wealthy investors might because place to start.
Nice
Right on, new right which normalizes fascism. So we have fascisms on both sides
Roger mentioned art…where are the songwriters?…the poets of today?
Not on the suggested playlist of Spotify, that's for sure.
In many ways an insightful discussion. And yet there was no mention of workers, and hardly any class analysis. This might be part of the reason why the conversation about political strategy didn't really go anywhere.
Let Yanis and Roger speak! Mute the other ones, esp. when its not their turn. You, host and Ece, are present, dont worry.
Please turn on the subtitles for greek !!!
Yanis is interesting but always cuts other speakers, it’s visible that they wish to talk too. He should refrain from that, let them talk to the end of their argument, note down stuff to say and say it later.
I agree. He seems to indulge his passion for his knowledge at the expense of others at the table, except Roger, whom he has some bromantic or celebrity endearment towards. It is very offputting, especially to see within seconds of a woman speaking he is cutting in. Totally lowers my esteem for him after seeing this. Ece has so much of value to contribute but Yanis' condescending and outright disrespectful butting in at the beginning of her speaking is inexcusable.
I would love to spread the word, but I feel I would be heckled down and the only emotion I would experience would be distain. I’m no intellectual but I hate how much suffering mankind has and continues to endure.
Was Mussolini the first regarding welfare or was it Bismarck?; what about Lioyd George?
Roger is unintentionally funny af
33:55 "Empower the people through genuine debate." yeah, but also empower the people through genuine money.
Since most of the press outlets is owned by Facists what can be said ?
"Let's Talk It Over" ... I came for LIVE but no chat, no comments below (here) and no definitions of "fascism" or "left" or "right" or "Radical Centre" but much ambiguous dialogue using those terms... I didn't stay long.
definitions and policies proposed/implemented please. I'm trying to understand your discussion
@J Powzy Quite an arrogant reply, making significant assumptions.
"Seems like" yet without any evidence to support your projection on to me.
I notice that ASKING QUESTIONS in today's world (as I did) results in insult rather than attempts to find "common ground" (i.e., agreed-upon word-definitions for use within the context of a discussion/conversation).
You demonstrate this pattern well enough...
Word-language has become so ambiguous, it is pointless to discuss the effects of something vaguely described as "fascism" today without a preliminary definition.
The inclination today to jump-to-conclusions WITHOUT proper UNDERSTANDING (which was my motivation, "understand your discussion" clearly stated) has resulted in discussion after discussion after discussion where the participant's definitions of the words used are not in common-agreement.
btw, I buy & read books, revealing the premise of your comment a fallacy.
It seems you may have watched/listened to this "conversation".
If so, why didn't you offer the definitions of the words I inquired about, to support my understanding? Why just project a fallacy (implying that I do not "Read books") followed by your "seems" assumption to elevate yourself and diminish my 'readiness ... level' in the minds of those reading your (basically insulting) reply?
I would not be surprised if you made many similar assumptions while watching/listening to "this conversation" which would "likely" mean you used it for "confirmation bias" rather than understanding. But I digress...
"Seems" you are not replying to support my understanding this "conversation".
IF you reply to this, your manner-of-communication will be used to determine IF I ever respond to you in future.
My premise in life in general is "Mutual-respect through empathic-personal-empowerment with voluntary-inclusive-cooperation, refusing coercion while embracing personal-responsibility."
I wish you well.
@J Powzy further, my comment is specifically directed to the people in the video, who have not responded to my inquiry/comment/concerns.
"Seems" they are not interested in SHARED "understanding", SO FAR ...
(absence of their response is evidence leading to this 'temporary conclusion')
Concerning "fascism" I am aware of many definitions over the years since Mussolini, currently a euphemism most common locally is "public-private-partnerships" being portrayed as desirable in many "democratic" gov't/institutions.
Also, I am unaligned with any gov't, corporation, public or private institution, religion, NGO, organization, group or ideology.
Speak with the People! Empower them!
Look at, Deutsche Wohnen Enteignen in Berlin.
Look at, Enough is enough in UK.
Oldschool Trade union style!
✊✊✊✊✊✊
45:02 "Technically ungifted?" pull the other one Roger, pretty f***ing technically gifted on the Bass.
I wish she wouldn't interrupt and talk over people
Max Blumenthal's latest interview on the Grayzone provides a more nuanced perspective on the women's riots in Iran.
Why is Roger Waters considered a qualified voice in such complex serious issues? It's disrespectful to people who have studied these specific topics for decades. Instead, we get a big mouthed, authoritarian, ego maniac has been rockstar.
For his eloquence, and clickbait?
What is the music at the end? Sounds Bolivian or Peruean
does anybody know the song at the end?
are you guys sure usa is not behind the unrest in iran? i think it is.
The USA is certainly trying to capitalize on the unrest with their typical NED funded color revolution tricks, but the protests and the anger of the people seems genuine.
Keep in mind that the average protestor probably doesn't support total regime change in Iran. They want to reign in or disband the reactionary Morality Police that murdered a woman for what most would consider a minor infraction.
I think there is a little issue in blaming the Left for certain outcomes, like proletariat voting for the far right.
It is not really wrong, but it does not put the most important issue on the table, that came with post-modernism, post-structuralism, and Big Tech as the cyber force.
this issue is the power and privileg of virtualization of all communication and all description and definition.
it works like a computer virus: it redefines addresses and locations of data, can capture all data, rewrite all data with something false or ugly, and present to the user a seemingly and ostensibly intact computer that looks and works as always, insofar the user can check that out at all. but those who run this virus or trojan in the background, can tune all their messages in sync with what the users can find by using their computers.
this is fake coherence. you believe something, and you get confirmation because the source knows already what you believe, and then they nudge you into something else, telling you that this is you, the better and bigger you.
this is much bigger than digital.
if you look into the radical constructivists around Humberto Maturana and Heinz von Foerster (who were the good guys!), you find the quote "Truth is the invention by a liar". You learn how communication can be controlled and perverted by Orwellian ideas and tactics, but the Constructivists have all the technical details. they did NOT mean politics to use it this way.
There is a fake Left that was invented by and from two directions:
1. The rightwing conservatives, those with Hayek and McCarthy in their book shelfs, and
2. those who are milking the School of Frankfurt decades beyond its life cycle.
the latter has become rusty and entirely perverted into brainwash with cognitive dissonance.
Signaling left, driving right.
Beto O’Rourke has done a fabulous job of running his campaign for governor of Texas. I hope he wins but anyway, he is changing minds.
First thing fascist do when making a country is to take over media...tv and newspapers. The product called fascism needs to have good advertising like any product, so in my opinion we need the same tactics. Since we can't get mainstream, we need different approach. I think posters and payed advertising are good idea. Radio? If we can't make our own tv, perhaps radio can be established?
So, it looks like fascists are doing great in USA and Ukraine! In the Greek parliament, AZOV fighters were getting a stand-up ovation!
I think a really useful series of videos for describing both a useful analytical lense for examining political issues, and which also offers a very promising route to uniting those on the apparent "left" and "right" of the political spectrium but who's interests are united amongst class lines is this guy's series: ua-cam.com/video/P3cmjNrXWms/v-deo.html I can't vouch for all his videos, or his style... but his political theory is super sound and comes across loud and clear for many people I think..
Interesting, thanks. It would however be helpful if the terms “fascist” and “democracy” could be defined at the outset. They mean different things to different people. For example, I suspect your definition of fascism comes closer to my definition of traditional conservatism than my definition of fascism.
Look at actual statistics on young people. Most people agree that we are not that divided. I think the fact that less than 2% of all politicans globally are under the age of 35 may be the issue. Without real representation, we shouldn't really be laying claim to some vague consensus based off street talk. Still love Yanis though, please don't change for the world.
Yani: "Huge Profits" are made by anyone who invests in products and goods which promise "gain". A lot of people who "trade" look at the share market from that perspective. At the moment, stock linked to weapon production "sell" well. Each individual makes immoral profits.
about Hungary, you are forgetting that there, they have still an eurasian mentality of personal relationship and connection, so that's why the walking from door to door is so efficient.
but in many other western countries, there is no sense of real life relationship any more, as soon as people are old enough that they must work, and perhaps marry. the relationships are nuclear, like 3 people and one more friend. this means that digital communication controlled by algorithms wins over the door-knocking. a stranger comes in and you cannot even focus your mind on what he is telling, and you want him to go in 2 minutes.
you need to compete the digital programs, eg. the games and netflix/marvel hero stuff. one way to do that would be to play Mrs Setsuko's speech about the bomb. this might break through the digital drugging of the pavlov kind.
but the other side of the coin is perhaps even worse. the democrats and the neocons have captured audiences from the left side, and with the help of the pandemic they have turned them into a mob that behaves practically as if they were rightwing extremists. they cannot even understand that their behavior alone has a political color and it is brown.
it makes no sense to tie fascism to Trump, when we have already a systemic behavior outside the republicans and outside the tea party, that is pseudo-religious, over-emotionalized, self-righteous, and full with group-think and forced collectivism within the peer groups.
37:40 "proportional representation" you're still thinking of democracy in terms of ballots... stop it, re imagine the question in terms of voting with money. This is the first problem we need to fix before even beginning to fix the other ones. Ballot based decision making is binary, static, time wasting, unresponsive and ultimately equivocation.
"NATO perpetration of the war in Ukraine"??? Is this really Yanis' position??? Who started this war?
You can find him speaking about this on other videos, recently.
The centre will do what it's always done throughout history, they like capitalism, so do the fascists, so they will side with them.
Ece smoking a little ganja..
I think any ideology that relates to realities of its time and place will have some success regardless of the name of that ideology and any that is platonic and out of scope will fail. There good and bad dictatorships and good and bad democracies and good and bad empires, it isn’t the name of the system that does the work it’s the leadership that does it. Any system that provides prosperity and peace to its people is a good system and any system is the result of the intentions and hard work of the people
I think that Varoufakis is right not to blame the rise of the far right on someone else or to some "systemic" characteristic. That would be fatalistic, and useless in a world that might be heading to armageddon (Biden's words in relation to the Ukraine war, but I am convinced as well that within the confines of the system nuclear third world war or climate extinction are not complete "unrealistic" scenarios nowadays). I doubt that I would agree with his solutions but thats another question. But we might work to a defense of the concept of social and collective rights. Together with the neoliberal assault since the 1980's and the demolishing of the socialist states, the ruling class has waged a convincing ideological war on our ideas of social right, which plays in the hand sof the (extreme) right. We should rebuff them, as a means to fight for the overthrow of the capitalist system.
The "radical centre"??
Portugal entered on NATO first group, on 1955, with a fascist tyrant rulling, the criminal Salazar, and after the militar coup of 74, the first government was extreme-left, but US has blackmaiked them, 350 000 white portugueses were trapped (i was there) in Luanda, Angola, risking be massacred, but to help them with a aerien bridge, the left government was sacked.....at same time, those "africain" portugueses will vote following elections on right, extreme-right partis, ending that risk to NATO, of having comunists inside on 1974, with Portugal.....today, even with fake socialists on government, Portugal's a US colonie, obeing as a "good boy", waf waf.....Portugal has downed their flag in the 1May1945, 3 days during, imediatlly after the Hitler suicide notice diffused....no other country did it....
35:45 ~ How do we reclaim this? Honestly ~ Conditional Basic Income, Yes CONDITIONAL, that condition being it has to be spent altruistically in a Congressional Crowd Fund. Alternatively, think of a political game show where the politicians don't compete for audience ballots, but for the audience's money (the audience must all have the same money to spend or it's not democratic). Just have a think about that, about what changes when you vote with money,... it's non-binary, it's dynamic, it's representative, it's immediate, it's powerful, it's accountable. Politicians should have to fund all of their projects, from the NHS to HS2, through a Congressional Crowd Fund that is funded with our tax money. Duh!
If you still think your team is better off in this collapse, you need to buy an extra case of water and bag of rice to protect yourself from your lack of foresight, that certainly won't be cured by Armageddon. I don't need to doomsday prep because there will be many caches established by people who won't survive anyway.
Can we pls do more talks or may be even kinds of camps, pardon the connotations. Ima like an artist more homie with the word residencies, bur any ways.. can we pls have a collective debate over RETHINKING THE DEMOCRACY NOW takin in account all cutting edge biology knowledge that we have now (and hopefully not falling into metaeugenics n so belong). we naturally have to bring the bright brains n hot hearts together to rethink the power of ppl, coz as bloody truly speakers just said manipulation is on duty n ppl in power not even looking at citizens of their countries as on a humans nor as a ppl but just as an electorate or consuming/productin mass. other words as at an actives, so it can be used to gain profit/political or financial (likely both)
I keep saying this but nobody listen to complicated for average people to understand we need a dictarship of the proletariat led by vanguard. We have to be a populist movement that will use a leader as the most important figure
@Denis Loukeris: The "dic tat orsh ip of the proletariat" will always lead to tot alita rian regimes. It will never work.
Yanis , you have so much of value to say but it is very obvious that a Greek phenomenon of talking over the woman speaker is a bad habit. Come on! Speaking of being humanistic, we women are in that species equally equipped to you too ,mate. Great talk otherwise.
We kill what we love.
It was radical left that caused the rise of fascism in Europe. Your high jacking of the centre left and a inability to provided a realistic alternative left a massive hole.
After 1000 times of the use of the term "fascism", this whole quartet began to look very puny and even like a mockery of helpless demagogues with a lot of time to spare! Pathetic!!!
They did not use the term enough. Fascists should know no peace. And you sir/ma, are most thoroughly pathetic.
Yeah. You are right. Seems the only thing the left can do today is scream:" Fascism!!! " No matter, if it is fascism or not. They will find fascism all the time, even if it dies out. Just to have something to do. I mean who cares about acting against the western globalist, fascistic supercapital which comes together in the WEF etc.? No... let us just scream "Fascist!" at the right, which is the only party trying to fight it.
Why is the right always portait as fascist or extreme? Mostly the left is extreme and fascist.
well when you openly talk about how great of a politician Benito Mussolini was, seems kinda fascist.There is no such thing as left-wing fascist. Communism and Fascism are quite literally opposite sides of a coin. Or did you forget who won WWII? (Hint, the Soviets aka the "extreme" left)
@@cl0udstr1fe : Incorrect. There is only le ft-wi ng fas cis m since fas cis m was a tot alita rian form of so cial is m. Ma rxi sm and fa scis m are 2 sides of the same coin. Go read some history.
@@Historia.Magistra.Vitae. If Fascism and Marxism are two sides of the same coin, why did Hitler, a fascist, imprison and kill socialists and communists first?
@@cl0udstr1fe : He didn't ki ll so cialis ts per se, he did kill m arxi sts though since according to him, they were doing so ciali sm wrong and were rivals. The entire Na zi regime consisted of former members of other lef tist movements. Hit ler himself took part in two failed Com mun ist revolutions in Bavaria. The entire point of 'Mein Kampf' is so Hi tler can explain his so cial ist ideals and how they were different from international so cial ism. Hi tler's entire ideology was based on Ma rx's view that "Capitali sm is a Jew ish construct designed to destroy civilization" and out of this he develops his views on autarky and the policy of Lebensraum, which was the primary motivation for invading the So viet Un ion.
@@cl0udstr1fe : Also need to point out that Hit ler had nothing to do with f asci sm whatsoever. Na zis m and fa scis m were 2 different soc iali st ideologies practiced in 2 different countries.
I'm not for deplatforming but Roger needs to have a long look in the mirror for his comments about Ukraine. He's utterly uninformed about Eastern Ukraine, Holodomor and Zelenskyy. His mind prism has been shattered through a mix of bad LSD, psychological contrarianism and an apetite for radical news journalism...totally lost it.
But you didn't say how he was wrong
@@MrFlinchenstein because he's full of propaganda shit