CAT Mechanic working on an International. Are Navistars and Internationals Junk?
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- In this video we are working on an International Maxxforce engine and then discussing some news about Navistar and International. AdeptApe@yahoo.com on PayPal and for questions.
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Thanks for watching! The DT466 and 7.3 Powerstroke were good engines by the way, just not a fan of their later stuff. You can help the channel by clicking on the Amazon Affiliate links: Milwaukee 1/2 Drive Impact w/batteries: amzn.to/3chlAwB
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Can't beat a 7.3L👍
My 'Binder is a '98 4700 with a Vulcan 896 wrecker bed. It sees real MD action daily mostly pulling around much younger descendents 😂 Knock on wood but I service it, fuel it & that's it. I never have to touch it, just twist the key & go. You're forgiven 😁
It all started going downhill with the discontinuation of the 4700 & all series using that cab & electrical architecture. Those were probably some of the best class 6 trucks ever built, simple, cheap & easy to repair. But like everything else, when they started trying to make big trucks behave & feel like cars, that's when the proverbial shit hit the fan, here's looking at you Freightliner 🙄😒 let's face it they all suck nowadays. Assuming I can get parts or it's not forced off the road by some Commiefornia mandate, I'll never sell mine. It's sad because Intl was once one of the best.
Thank u for saying good things about the dt466 and t444
@@SOU6900 or the 7.6
Oh no! here come the powerjoke fanbois!!
All engineers should train with the people who work on their equipment.
One big plus working for Helmerich&Payne independent drilling contractor. They have the best iron in the oilfield for a reason. They have an entire floor in their downtown Tulsa high rise building dedicated to their engineering teams. They do not purchase rig packages from NOV or any other. They build every drilling rig in house, even drawworks and top drives. Their engineering team works closely with their field service technicians to develop the most dependable and redundant machinery in the energy sector. It was a growing experience working there.
I have the same dream my man... If only...
I agree 100% on the engineers especially on newer vehicles.they can't hit their ass with both hands. they think they are really brite because they wasted as much as six years in college. I'm so sick of having to work on their piss poor design's. they should have to work on the crap they design. I'm sure I will get plenty of blowback from this reply. but I don't give a flying rats ass. I'll tell them right now to kiss my ass. I ain't the one that designed that crap.
Far too arrogant to even consider listening to a mere mechanic
I think truck manufacturers listen quite a lot to mechanics. That's why they all still use front straight axles on leaf springs. Every chassis engineer knows that combination rides and handles like a dishwasher tumbling down the side of Mt Vesuvius, but with 5 moving parts, 2 of which only move because they bend, it's extremely maintenance friendly. Compared to the absolute state of contraptionry under the hood of a modern pickup, modern semis are shockingly maintainable. I think diesel mechanics could do a stint as car techs to appreciate just how good they have it. "BRO, WHO INVENTED MINIVANS?!"
I love international, I was 1 certification short of diamond certified on navistar products. The reputation of international went down the drain when the maxxforce engines came around. The A26 is starting to turn around the reputation but really slowly. The DT466E will always be the best medium duty Diesel engine ever built.
I also love them, no frills work trucks. The ones we run are all older with big cam Cummings though.
I’m diamond certified. You are not missing anything 😂😂
Garbage design and materials.
Biggest thing I heard from owner operators about a26s is they're leaky fuckers
A26 is off of the MAN D26. Interestingly enough, they got the design during a “strategic technology cooperation”, yet before Navistar was bought by Volkswagen. Oh boy, I can’t wait to go to work tomorrow and drive my Volkswagen LT. Hell, it’s a long lost cousin to the diesel Jetta I drove to work.
learned more in your first 2 minutes than I had of countless minutes by other channels.
Thank You.
As a CM in the SeaBees I can tell you 2 things. 1) The MaxPro is the WORST MRAP variant we have! 2) Good news! Taliban now owns most of our fleet! Hahaha! Mental picture of Taliban working on a MRAP PCU or any other system on the vehicle!
Lol
Not funny the Chinese commie party will bring in their techs and reverse engineer the other tech. 🐒
Except for the reverse engineering of the rest of the tech, I'm glad they got the bad ones.
Good to know. Now, what about the helicopters and other equipment hastily left in Afghanistan?
@@Inspironator so, trust me when I tell you we ALL have a "Destruction plan" in place for COMSEC equipment. If a radio is even close to being compromised we zero it out. It's like pouring acid on the hard drive. So any equipment left there is either useless or there on purpose to track it's location via GPS. We're not stupid!!!!!!!
I had a DT 466 for 15 years with the only problem being the injector harness under the rocker cover. Good truck for the money!
Sounds like the same issue I had on ever 7.3 powerstroke I owned.
@@Mantis858585 That's because the 7.3 powerstroke and the DT466E use about the same fuel system and interchangeable injectors
Got a CAT CT660 that loves the coolant! Starts and runs like a dream but darn it loves coolant!
I haven’t had a modern truck yet that doesn’t spend more time in the shop than on the road. The most recent garbage was Volvo our company owned 160 of these trucks and out of the 15 we had in our local fleet had so many issues. Wiring, wiring harnesses, constant emissions issues. The engine and transmission were OK if you could keep the trucks running. I refused to give up my 90’s era series 60 Detroit freightliner after my brand new Volvo was in the shop all the time.
Volvo suck to work on, The I shift transmissions are junk, the D13s are junk cam problems, egr problems, injector problems, drop valves, and air compressor problems worse on the Mp7 "Mack" engine. Also Volvo suck to work on, Mack is even worse. I worked at a mack/volvo dealership for about a year and a half before going to Freightliner.
Makes me miss the days when you wouldn't see anything smaller than 16 gauge wire under the hood of a car, and all the other wiring that was important was substantial and chunky. Not any more. Remember working on my brothers Ford and the headlight wasn't working and the wiring for that wasn't even thick enough to use as dental floss. Naturally the few mouse pubes that were passing themselves off as stranded copper wire broke, and it needed a new connector.
I had a maxxforce as a loner once. Ryder tech warned me, the last guy only made it 50 miles... I had the truck for 3 days, it barely made it back. Lots of lights and burning coolant.
Ape, You tech us so much man ! Post as much as you can !! 👍🏼 Cheers 🍻
>The trial included testimony from Jim Hebe, who previously was the senior vice president, North America Sales Operations. Hebe retired in October 2012. Hebe's testimony about the engine program mentioned that the company "did not test shit".
Most definitely enjoyed the video just got an international 2006 7400 I bought it from the junkyard with 70,000 MI it was an old Town garbage truck I took the hopper body off and put a cesspool vacuum tank on it and the one thing I thought was funny is an indicator light for electrical problems plus this aftermarket battery kill switch installed which has to be shut off at night but I have to go in through 20 of them and half of them were natural gas that was the best one on point with your information brother
Personally, I am a big fan of the international trucks, but I am not a fan of their new engines, I prefer an international truck with a caterpillar or cummins engine
Their newest engine ................ the A26 ................. actually seems pretty solid. It's a 12.4L MAN engine! The MaxxForce was trash!
@@chackos123 I just bought one with an A26. I hope it works out. It does have a full 2 year warranty.
New trucks are non existent. If you order one it's a 12 month wait.
@@chackos123 Max Farce is more fitting
Or Detroit diesel
The A26 is hands down a better performing motor than the x15 in my experience
Hope the auction buyer gets full disclosure on this damaged truck. 👀
Probably not, auction pictures may even show that coolant levels full..
That is why I cannot understand how anyone or any business can buy auction stuff that's "As is" and you cannot test drive it.
A few years ago I read a post on some trucking forum where guy said to the original poster who was looking to buy a truck: "if it doesn't come with maintenance records it's basically worth junk it".
That is a little bit harsh as I bought my tractor without maintenance records but I went through it with a fine tooth comb-for all the major components that is. I wish I spent a little more time looking through the interior and I might have knocked a grand off the price I paid for it.
Had 2 prostars. Always electrical faults and shorts somewhere. Now driving a 2000 w900l old truck but man am I happy
Just like the Cat SDP engine killed it for Cat in the trucking market, too many issues.
My first truck was a 2004 7500 with the HT530, What a fucking nightmare. Honestly, If it started in the AM I would be so happy. Next truck was a nxs C15, It literally has started everyday for almost 9 years straight
13 letter shit spreader 🤣🤣🤣 love the informative videos you do. I'm not a mechanic but I do drive for a living and more than once a few of your videos have saved alot of time and effort in my endeavors. Keep it up my man and Happy New year👍👍👍🔨👇🇺🇸🤠😎
I just bought a 9400i that was the only thing decent I could find pre-emissions that that the prices weren't inflated into Bolivian ...
So far the only thing I really hate about it is the dash is a piece of s*** the hood wiggles and I have no cruise control or fan override...
Other than that she rides half decent she does have 600,000 on her and surprisingly it's rather quiet inside.
It reminds me of the both 6.0L and the 6.4L Power Stroke Engines!
The one thing that worked well on the box trucks I used to drive, was the 4 way flashers! The trucks had NO power. One day I raced a 10 year old kid on a bicycle. I couldn’t catch him til the road took a dip. Those trucks would lose a race with Amish buggies!
Ive only drove freightliners so when i got in an old international to take my drivers test at my new company i was in shock at how different the interior was, like I couldn’t find the jakes , and something else i needed. Everything was garbage as per the layout. I got done with my test and asked him “who in their right mind would drive a PoS international” and he got butthurt saying “they used to have a factory here my family worked at , they all got layed off” i was just thinking to myself “i can see why”
They are different with their switches and such.
Very familiar with all Maxxforce engines, can’t believe it didn’t bankrupt Navistar.
I had a 7.3 IDI those were reliable engines I have a 6.0 been good for ten years 🤷🏻♂️🤘🏻🤙🏻
Did you upgrade the oil and egr cooler?
@@PoliticalGangster nope Engine was blowed up in 2009 I am second owner I haven’t done nothing but put a turbo on this truck ….yet🤣🤣👍🏻 and of course reg services ✌🏻
That cat hat is legit
Traton Trucks owns it all now. Volkswagen owns Traton Trucks. So in time things will get better for International and something good will come out of it.
As a Paccar tech for Kenworth they deff take wiring seriously. The first time you do a engine or chassis harness you will understand. Well made but alot of work to remove at least its not common aside from operator damage. Typically trucks in the landfills are in my experience that destroy the harness.
When I was in a beer distributor fleet, my boss was pissed on how bad the EPA 10 dt were in reliability. Had traded 6 S lines tractors for 6 new 4400 with "new" twin turbo dts in a TERP deal the EPA was doing. By the time the first year went by, the folder holding all the warranty work ,tow bills and repairs in parts surpassed the thickness of a 2002 4400 with a old dt466 since it was new. EGR coolers were a maintenance item on those things if they would only last 100k
The S series was the last good looking IH truck line
International dealer Tech here...yes the Prostar with the Maxxforce 13 was 🗑, the N13"B"(2016/17) was much better and easier to work on, the current model the LT with the A26 is a dream to work on IMO, they designed it around uptime so each repair is faster and more straightforward.
Is the A26 based on the Maxxforce or a completely new platform?
@@AdeptApe the base engine is the same, they removed the twin turbo setup and the interstage cooler which made the passenger side a nightmare to work on, the egr cooler and valve from the N13B have been retain as well as the 2 speed fan clutch, the variable from the Maxxforce caused the fan to fall off and go through the radiator, the fuel pump has been upgraded, and they really just tidied up everything on the engine its hard to explain every detail but if you open the hood you see a big difference!
Could N13 and MAXFORCE engines have A26 components installed on them, as a conversion to A26 update level?
@@michaelglenning5107 The varible fan drive can be converted, which I highly recommend because when that thing goes flying off you can imagine the damage it does, also shavings fall into the pan which can end up in the connecting rod and main bearing caps...its a mess! Other than that your stuck with the rest of it.
Cool info, thank you.
Maxxforce 15/CT15 was a good attempt to modernize the 3406E family, which CAT could’ve built upon to make a triumphant return to the OTR world….but unfortunately the Navistar-sourced truck line had too many other issues and they shut it down shortly thereafter.
I really liked their automatics and the gauge layout, but the exterior styling and overall quality left a bit to be desired. Buying off another company to R&D a product CAT slaps its name on, is a foolish mistake for such a reputable company to make.
The only CAT product I would want these days is a fully mechanical 3406C with C18 internals and a small VGT turbo, transplanted into my Aerostar cabover. Massive torque from the long stroke/slow turning (downsped) platform, replace the KTA I have now.
calfire uses navistar cabs. they use cummins engines.
DT530e a fantastic engine.
You know, there's so many of those trucks floating around out there because of fleet purchase, I always thought if a very talented mechanic was able to find a way to modify the engines to be reliable they'd probably benefit quite a bit if they did it right.
The epa will shut them down cause the best way to make it reliable is get the emissions off. And that's a no no...
I was getting worried haven’t seen a video in a while I totally agree with you i work on a bunch of dt 466s and internationals with cummins in them. Id say the dr 466 is their best engine and thats sad
Customer of mine has a newer International dumptruck. 2014-2016 N13 motor. Was great until it was throwing codes for fuel rail pressure beyond maximum. Had a bad fuel pump. $10,000's later it runs great... :(
Wiring nightmares. The dealer would fix the connectors with wirenuts. ECU would burn up because it could get dirt built up behind it.
In Philly our trash trucks are mostly freightliners with some intl. Mostly cause they don't have highway miles most of all our issues and Regen after treatment stuff. No driver runs the Regen with the truck passive Regen. They don't smell the difference or notice the slight rpm change. By the time I get to fix it I gotta use Cummins insite then I can do regens
Short answer: yes
Long answer: also yes
I worked for a company that bought a bunch of those international trucks with the max force engines also. Had so many problems with them international had to buy them back. We then switched to Pete’s with mx13s
How have the mx-13s been holding up?
After they stopped using that bad ass DT466 everything went down hill especially starting in 2013
Did CAT have a hand in the CT11 and CT13? If so why didn't they use the CGI system that CAT used on the C15?
Yep, Good call on the repair.. Scrap it and take the loss.
I love your videos !
dt 466 are the best international motor
Where are the fuel filters on a 2003 international 530 engine?Can't find them .
Years ago International pretty good product not the best but not the worst. Off road much Mack wear them out. Not overloaded & took care of with good drivers too they was good tks. Had good points / Bad points. But myself Navistar enter into it they went down hill.
Comment on the 7.3 international in the F series Ford. Nothing but issues.
If you have a 7.3 with nothing but issues, someone doesn't know what they're doing to fix it right. They're right up with a P-pump Cummins for reliability/longevity. Find another mechanic.
@@acemobile9806 the cavitation eats through the cylinder walls. I don’t know of any mechanic that can fix that. Usually these engines need heads and a resleeve at 250k miles or so. Most people just part them out. Why you see so few around.
@@vectormarine not if you keep the SCT level where it's supposed to be & coolant serviced. Another example of lack of maintenance, plain & simple.
So few of them? I work on a couple of fleets of buses with them for tomato farmers here in FL. They use them to haul migrant workers to the fields. My truck & wrecker are both 7.3s. A school district I used to work for out in New Mexico had them exclusively & only had to replace them due to safety regs. In all my years I've never personally seen one suffer a cavitation failure. The reason you never see them en masse anymore in buses is because they all get sent to Mexico/Central/South America & the last one was made 18 years ago!
@@vectormarine cavitating eating through the cylinder walls? Diesels need special coolant in order to keep that from happening. It has to specifically say for diesels on the label.
I just bought a 1987 Navistar International maxxforce 9 model# 1954. I'm trying to find out what 6 cylinder diesel engine I have. Could you tell me where to look or a website. I don't see any information on the engine. Thanks
I didn't know coolant is heavier than oil!
Ego destroyed Navistar, the upper management ran the company based on their ego's and nothing else and that's what caused the MaxxForce engines (and the brand sadly) to be complete junk from about 2009 as they prepared for the 2010 emissions until Ustian and his minions were purged from 2012-2015ish. They've started to try and turn things around, but now owned by VW and still for some reason, trying to be the cheapest product in the industry. If they get back to their roots, listen to what the customer wants IPO making sure they have the cheapest part cost to MFG, International can get back to what it was in the early 2000's.
Same engine is in the fords.thats why I didn't choose a ford . Power stroke for my ford. That's why I bought a car3116 for my ford
Dear AA, Navistar was given that defense contract At a point in time when they were almost bankrupt. They could even afford to pay the fiberglass hood supplier. And then miraculously they got this defense contract to build these mine proof trucks with the same garbage engines that you’re talking about.
Cummins good! International no good after Dpf addition around 07-08. The truck itself is pretty tough but the engine is garbage. I don’t like the maxxforce. I had the same coolant leak on an 03 it was a liner seal Navistar was also sued for knowing the egr system was trouble prone and they didn’t want to lose out on sales so they sold them anyway. The claim was for the trucks having no resale value due to their reputation. I think this case was won.
Is there a book that covers how to do a inframe on a c15
That's why the Fire industry switched to freight shackers
Just found your channel. Really enjoying all of the good information. I am looking into buying a 2005 Peterbilt Redimix truck with the TwinTurbo C 11. I have heard good things and bad things about this truck engine. I have also seen guys convert to single turbo on a TwinTurbo C 15. What is your opinion of the sea 11 and possibly converting it to a single turbo?
will a 1994 dt466 pass the 2002 EPA emission standards?
When I think of Navistar engines, Ford's 6.0 and 6.4L PowerStroke come to mind... The word "junk" also comes to mind... They used to make great engines, and I have no idea how or why it all went so wrong.
It’s the EPA’s fault. Also they didn’t make the 6.0 and 6.4 very well so they tended to blow up literally eventually.
MaxxForce hasn’t been produced in years. Regardless, any truck on the road today is only as reliable as it’s maintenance routine. 95% of the fleets in operation do a very poor job of maintenance
What happend to the Cummins 444
Where can I find that hat man? Looked on Amazon and no dice.
Does anyone have any experience with the MaxxForce ‘10 DTHT?
13-letter shit-spreader.
And holy shit, we just had one of those exact trucks hauled in today. Rental Store decals and all lol.
That might be the best hyphenated word I've ever seen.
@@AdeptApe that's what we always call them.
International,(Navistar) ain’t had a good engine since the DT466, or if you were lucky enough to snag an international with a CAT in it. The 466 is a damn good motor! Especially compared to the complete garbage they started producing in 08 with the MaxxForce! It’s a shame International can make such a nice work truck, but can’t put a decent engine in it anymore to save their life. I would blame the EPA for that, but Cummins and Paccar still seem to make it work. Atleast the automatics are equipped with an Allison Transmission. That’s about the only reliable piece you get.
I remember when they came out with there Diesel engine. In late 60 where they took there 549 gas engine and converted it to a diesel.
They were junk back then our company then
I used to drive a 69 International Dump Truck with a red diamond gasoline engine, and hydraulic wedge brakes. I used to say it would take forever to get going and twice as long to get stopped!
The DV 550.
GM did the same crap with their 350 engine.
The 7.3 powerstroke is an Excellent engine. Ran across a 2009 International 7500 6x4 maxforce 10 dumptruck with 113,000 miles on it for $35,000 do you think its a good deal ?
The short answer, yes. The long answer, yes
I have to keep a 466e going ,International doesnt understand that water flows down hill.
So their harnesses have a nasty habit of carrying water directly into water sensitive components.
Their primary harness ( battery cables ) are often position so that water cant drain back out once it gets in...I've literally stuck a pin into both battery cables so my boss could watch a pint of water drain out of them.
The harnesses are just crap and a lot of their bad reputation stems from that.
Who's the go to for dump trucks 26000 give? I have a international 4700 dump truck looking to upgrade?? Anyone ??
When you say International and it Isn't AG equipment I think blown head gasket.
I've been stuck on the side of the road more times by maxforce crap than any other machine on the road. 10/10 would not recommend.
I'd like to add it was a leased truck and the company spent well over 25k in repairs in just 1 year. When we sent it back to Wyoming it was a blessed day as we took delivery of a F750. Granted we will blow turbos over time at least we know we can make it home and not leave a team behind. Better to limp back than to be stuck 800 plus miles from home.
oh boy, I'm buying a truck soon and i know what engine im NOT going to pick 🤣🤣🤣
Yeah, they are indeed "interTRASHIONALS"!
Sounds like navistar and ford 6.0 and 6.4 ordeal. And it's sad they been around over 100 years...
I know this video is a year old but, There some engines out there that are icons for reliability, I loved the 855 Cummins and the B, C, & E model Cat engines. When engine manufacturers were forced to put emissions on their engines they all had issues, some more than others, the advanced EGR was what killed the early Maxxforce engines (it was a disaster, they were trying to burn too much exhaust gas in an attempt to avoid DEF as a sales pitch), International wasn't alone in engine issues after 2011, I had a customer who had a fleet of Volvo's and he wanted to burn that fleet to the ground, which surprised me. The new A26 seems to be a much better engine but I've seen a few broken piston rods, other than that (yes I know laugh it up Yuk Yuk!) large fleets seem to be happy with them. Totally agree with you on the DT466, short of running it out of coolant or oil you couldn't kill it the 6.9, 7.3 and 7.3 powerstroke were great engines as well.
Actually the reasons why companies like John deere, Navistar, dodge, kubota, etc etc all tried to cope and make excuses as why they wouldn't get onto the scr bandwagon is because fiat still patented the system up until 2014 or so when it expired, meaning that they were doing so to avoid paying royalties and thus trying to undercut the competition by offering junk products they knew wouldn't work
I work at a international dealership, ya we had a number of engines with shavings in the bearings causing failure. International would get on ur ass as soon as a truck went down with a A26 and they would shotgun u possible parts you'll need to get it up as fast as possible. One had a code that may have lead to a engine and they shipped a engine over in a day to be safe incase we needed it.
@@evanwerkhoven7046 Cool, I work for International too, it's amazing how fast they can get us a complete engine. After the MaxxForce debacle they're doing everything they can to get ridi of that stain.
I owned cats and cummins 15, in 10 years of otr I never take it to the shop. I'm selling super reliable and powerful 6nz at the moment
@0311catfish True that, unfortunately all the crap the EPA has made us hang on our diesels it's affected us all in a not so good way. I hear that International is changing their DPF/DOC configuration and getting rid of EGR coolers. I kinda can't wait to see it and how well it works or not.
When I worked at the County Fleet Services department, we had mostly International plow & dump trucks. This is because they are usually the lowest price truck available on the State bid process.
You get what you pay for.
That’s how it goes when it comes to fire trucks. The volunteer Dept I was on we had an 05 4400, nothing but issues. The paid department I’m currently on, we have a 2015 4400, was constantly having issues and usually it was either a wiring issue or a motor issue. Prior to ordering the truck in 2014 I said, get a different chassis. Do not get an international, but because it was cheaper…….. The rest is history.
Ford has had problems with their police cars after the Crown Victorias were discontinued. The Explorer and Taurus had nothing but problems.
@@atx-cvpi_99 strange, I haven’t heard anything other than the water pumps at exactly 100k. Well, that and unless you got the ecoboost, Lordy lord are they slow. The ecoboost is wicked fast.
A old man said they had a Fleetstar and a later White 9000 with the Autocar can, said both were identical mechanicaly,but he liked the 9000 a lot better, a old IH truck salesman said "White had us beat on everything but price"
They're also one of the easiest to work on. Working on a freightliner is a wiring nightmare
I was the mechanic for a whole fleet of DT 466’s the old or 1st generations were very reliable when they changed to 2nd generations things went downhill.
I need your help lol
That's true, they had really bad drive wire issue that was undiagnosable. on the later generation engines.
Those were nice and pretty easy to fix
@@musicauthority7828 i need your help t3800
The first 10 years of my driving career I drove International 4900 beverage trucks with the DT466 engine. They weren't that fast but you couldn't kill them, they just ran.
Only had to deal with one Maxxforce 13 in my career, mercifully! Terrible nightmare of an experience, only after a year of big $$ did my boss finally sell it.
I've heard the same thing, that the base engine was quite good.....graphite iron block, dry head gasket, German design. It was the complex turbo/cooler system, dual EGRs and the wiring (basically all the ancillary components) that were terrible. There's a reason Navistar almost went bankrupt during the Maxxforce"s tenure and had to get Cummins help to figure out how to make a compliant engine....should have followed Cat's lead and dropped out while they had a good reputation.
The larger maxforce engines are literally cats designs that international brought from them. It's clear why cat decided to drop out based on how maxxforce performed.
@@paulf3 we can thank the Damn EPA CARB and any other crackpot government org. for all this JUNK.
@@paulf3 the smaller Maxxforces (except the Maxxforce 7) were actually decent. Unfortunately the EPA ruined everything and navistar now has boring crappy Cummins engines.
The maxxforce 11/13 engines aren’t that bad to work on. Once you understand them and know the tricks to working on them, it’s easy peasy. But the best engine platform out there is Cummins, hands down.
No not Cummins Detroit
To hell with Detroit, once they and Freightliner were both bought by Mercedes Benz, and have to be blowing each other on everything they do now, they’ve gone to crap. The trucks are rubbish, the engines are a pain to fix, assuming you got Detroit (MBE472), because of course you did, and the “Detroit DT12” Transmission (Powershift 3) because you can’t be bothered with a more established Eaton, I hate those trucks. I’ve driven the Cascadia Evolution (if that’s the evolution, I’d hate to see from what exactly it evolved) and wasn’t thrilled, and the New Cascadia, even worse, so much flat plastic. I’ve never had a problem with Cummins, except that wonky engine brake.
And Detroit Diesel computers, sensors, and cameras? Where the hell did that come from? And the new Demand Detroit? I Demand a new truck.
@kyle what would you say the ct13 biggest issue is ? I keep hearing it’s because of the emissions equipment and once deleted, it’s actually pretty reliable ?
New Cummins ISB’s suck. They break down too often for little stuff.
All modern trucks/cars suck
Yah.... Was at the Toyota dealership the other day and the Supra doesn't even come with a V6 option.... Pitiful.
@@michaeldunagan8268 They have A BMW inline 3.0 litre 6 cylinder engine!
@@southwind3
The salesperson was rather young looking in his early twenties but he mentioned none of the Supras had a six cylinder engine.
A guy who became a best friend of mine while I was in the United States Army was a big Toyota fan before it was really popular military on the base I was stationed and his favorite car was the Supra.
I have rebuilt more of these than I could count. All 466 based engines suffer the exact same failure. Yes even the old 466 mechanical that someone's grandfather bought in 1988. The piston scores and liner orings fail. The issues is that as the engines got newer the overhaul timeframe shortened significantly.
The us postal company I once worked for had them nearly on a schedule. The old mechanical engine was around every 15 years the, e series were consistent at about 8-10years. The second gen heui system (6.0l powerstroke style) made it 6-8 if well maintained . After that you pretty much roll the dice. At the start of the max force stuff it is just as likely to swallow a cooler as it is to get coked up the turbo or die due to def etc. Etc
When I still had my truck and talked to dealers they wouldn’t even take those trucks in. I had Western Star and Freightliner trucks. I had my share of issues with those, but nothing like what people went through with the International trucks.
Coolant dropping that fast is the liner o-rings. Very common when you overheat that series of an engine. They don't crack heads as often as cat engines do.
Fragile o rings keep oil and water seperated. Oil and water mixed wipes bearings.
Bearings rarely go out. However, if you do an overhaul you replace bearings.
Sad part too is that I love the instrument cluster on International trucks. I just don’t trust Cummins engines or anything prostar for that matter.
Dt466 and dt360 are both one of the best diesel engines ever made
*DT466 and DT360 are TWO of the best Diesel engines ever made.*
@@mattbenluke Some
@@mattbenluke and early Maxxforce DT single turbo. The 2010-2015 Maxxforce DT is kinda bad.
Obviously you never owned a cat 6nz so.or any cat for that matter, you just say to say
@@mattbenluke *Cummins 5.9liter would like to have a word*
Can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard somebody say intertrashional 😂
13 letter shit spreader
Crapistar Powerjoke.
Tell me what truck that doesn't have issues with the pollution system? Our company lemon lawed a Mack over a constant egr failure. Our Western Stars with DDC were just as bad. It's really sad to see new trucks in the shop and relying on old ones with almost a million miles on them keeping the company going. We had 12 year old C15s on the second inframe on the road everyday while brand new trucks were in the shop.
The problem I remember with International was you needed to know the guy who built the truck to get the right parts.
Was gonna get an international for my first truck, good thing i looked up the reviews, never got it, instead a series Series 60 freightliner came into my life and I haven't had a problem with it since.
Series 60 is a great engine it will get great mileage and it is very reliable.
Me too, i was planning on getting the intl pro star because i liked the exterior body but thank god i did my homework and studied it through and throigh, like you i went with the frwightliner 12 7 60 series and apart from little things that any old vehicle will have to be replaced, it has never left me stranded on the road. I always see trucks broe down on the road with their side steps panel removed which is a clear indication of emmision problems. Ill stay woth the old reliable pre emmision engines all day, taking care of my truck to last me as long as possible to push back the time ill eventually have to moove onto the emission time bomb engines.
I’ve always been a fan of International, we always had International School Busses since early 70’s. And yes they had many crappy engines but they had lots of great engines, The inline 6 back in 1993 (Don’t know the name given to that engine) and the T444E were 2 fantastic engines.
They had many gauge cluster issues (after 90’s) they are junk.
You have to separate the engine and the vehicle, cause if the engine isn’t an International and made by Cummins or Detroit and the engine has issues then it’s an engine problem. The vehicle itself has its own issues. A lot of the issues now is computer related, get rid of the computer and I’m sure a lot of problems would fix themselves.
Are they all bad? No but they have their problems just like all the other trucks.
Any coments on the International 9.0L? They're almost indestrutible, and sound amazing if you put straight
@@panamatrucker the 1st 10000 9.0 blocks were too thin on the deck. 5 or 6 head gasket revisions, some oil leaks otherwise good engine. The cool part was the piston came up beyond the deck, the head was cupped for piston clearance and the valves were angled like a hemi.
@@greggwenig6163 in past we ran a lot of those 9L and Cats3208 here in Panama as a public transport buses, they were so damn loud man, i love hear them around the city racing each others
In these days they are difficult to find
I will agree with you I actually word for international
I don’t per say like the body styles but they are pretty good trucks people say they are shit because of the engine in there truck pop the hood and it’s a x15 Cummins
Well then that’s not a Internatinol truck problem that’s a Cummins problem
Well the 7.3L powerstroke/T444E was amazing lol
My I.H. build non turbo 6.9 has been running 34 years!
The DT466 was also pretty good from what I've seen, the company didn't always make junk.
My 7.3 is 25 years old. Before that I had a 1972 Scout 2 with a gas 345 cu in v8 that ran well until I took it up to almost double the redline. All that being said, I wouldn't touch anything new that they make. They are a good example of, if your company is not improving, it is declining. Kind of like CAT not producing over the road truck engines anymore. My next engine will be a Cummins, and I hope to work for them sometime soon and develop my method of improving emissions and efficiency without having an EGR system. Of course if CAT were to approach me, I might be willing to work for them.
@@davidscott5903 doing away with the EGR would fix 90% of Diesel engine issues. I think it’s evident nowadays that the after treatment system isn’t the problem, it’s the EGR that causes the emissions related issues.
Now, yes, you do have the possibility of def system failures and dpf clogging, but I’d say EGR problems outweigh both.
I own a 99 Ford F-250 (7.3) PowerStroke. Brought new 10/98. 173,000 + miles. Six in the floor. 👓
Most likely it was just the EGR cooler. Sometimes they get big holes in them and make it look like a cylinder.
Unlikely, EGR coolers on the EPA 10 Maxxforce DT/9/10 (99% positive the engine depicted in the video, would need to get a closer look to see if it was an N9/N10) usually fail and cause coolant to go through the engine and exhaust. I have only seen one or two hydrolock engines.
@@Downstriker559 well I have seen it. Only time u see cylinders leak that bad on EPA 10 is overheat.
The best way to get a small transport business is to start with a large one and buy a fleet of internationals.
I had to drive a 7600 navistar for about three years and the only good thing was having time off when it was broken down yet again. noisy, uncomfortable, unreliable, fucked air conditioning, leaking fuel tanks, and interior falling apart to make a short list. and that was a new truck.
I was looking for financing a few years back through Richie Bros and in big bold writing they say that they will not finance International. So that tells you something
Im going to college for diesel and going to start electrical class, Can you do an electrical diagnostics video for semis. The video would be greatly appreciated.
@@TC-pf7on 👍
ScannerDan, Real fast fixes on UA-cam. They are auto electrical guys, but electrical is electrical. The good auto techs, have no problems crossing over to big truck electrical diagnostics.
I worked for International for 15 years as a Tech. EGR problems killed the reliability of otherwise decent power plants..
The whole entire Tier 4 deal is a huge sham!!
Even the gubment admits it by excusing the military from their own BS rules!
In some ways.
A construction site is dirty enough already, so is filtering the exhaust to remove black smoke really gonna make that much of a difference?
Or on any public roads outside of crowded urban environments. Tier 4 emissions are only necessary in crowded environments because in non-crowded places they are unnecesary.
Navistar has their own A26 engine that came out in 2017 which comes standard in all their trucks except the MV (newer 4300 model) and the shitty CV series (cheap Chevy top kick knockoff). Although the A26 has had a few drawbacks, it’s an incredible engine.
That’s because it was designed off of the MAN D38 platform and uses a Cummins designed emissions system.
We run small fleet, all International Lonestar's & we really like them, they are all the new X15 Cummins.
This week we went out on a limb & bought a LT with the new A26 we did however get the 600,000 mile warranty just in case.
I feel Navistar has learned a valuable lesson & is turning out a great product post 2017.
@@sdpistolero327 D26
The A26, or the Volkswagen D26, I actually like it. The DuraStar still has Cummins only, the dreadfully underpowered ISB, and the unfortunately uncommon ISL. The CV, which I still say stands for Chevrolet Vehicle, looks more like a Silverado, than the new Silverados do, which has (because of course it does) the 6.6 Duramax. ISB maybe? Or can’t they be bothered to do anything at all with exception of taking off bowties and putting diamond stickers over them.
Thank you for the mechanical tips of the intermittent speed of the cranking of the engine.
I read a forum a few years ago where a guy couldn't understand how two international trucks were selling for $30,000 difference when one had the IMAX engine and the other one had a Cummins engine.
I could have told that person questioning the price difference first hand that that $20,000 is a bargain. I've heard of international engines having to be rebuilt after 300,000 miles as if it's back in 1970 all over again.
In my maintenance manual on my Freightliner Century tractor, it has different tiers of service. The first tier is severe duty which is due to very cold temperatures or very Sandy ambient atmosphere or vocational trucks that idle about and drive short distances. The proper way to account for the severe duty operations is by hours and not by Miles.
I do hours and Miles both on my tractor since I'm kind of a tweener between severe duty and local duty. I go by whichever one takes first that it triggers the maintenance.
You can go by fuel burn as well, on my 3408 they recommend oil change at 9,500 litres / 2,500 US gallon fuel burn. I usually do it at 250 hours or 9,500 litre fuel burn.
Dt466 and the 7.3L are the only international products that run decent and are relatively reliable. Keep your dt466 stock and it will run forever. Easy to work on, easy to diagnose abd easy to repair. The interior on the internationals is cheap and loaded with plastic, where the tabs that hold the dash panels and such break off over time and you are forced to wedge things behind plastic panels to prevent rattling. You see a lot of international box trucks, and LTL trucks, because they are a little cheaper when making a fleet level purchase.
Anyone who knows, if it is a class-8 truck and it has a MAXXFORCE logo….run. Run fast!