I left the infantry indoctrinated, brainwashed, and institutionalized, feeling like a zombie. Now, I serve as an assistant manager at a major hard rock quarry, currently in my second year of pursuing a degree in mineral extraction. I'm thoroughly enjoying this new chapter. My two children are thriving in university, which brings me immense joy. Additionally, I'm married to a brilliant and beautiful woman who is financially successful. Despite moments of despair, such as standing on the edge of a mountain precipice contemplating ending it all, I ultimately chose to persevere, partly inspired by the motivational content in your videos. You touched my life.
22 years in the irish military...this is one of the most honest and straight forward explanation and experience of leaving the military I have heard ....should be shown in all pre discharge courses
Leaving thr RAF after 27 years, having palpitations and panic attacks in private because I know its just the stress of loosing the safety net I've grown used too. I have strong wife supporting me, however, I'm not sleeping and not showing my anxiety because, I know it will be OK in the long term. Appreciate your honesty as its confirming the normality of our situation and how common it is.
Hi Edwin, I work with folks leaving the military as a coach and try and help with that transition. I’m currently in, and more than happy to have a conversation if you think it could help.
Oh, make sure you eat enough fat! Add butter to everything. Tastes great and greases the tubes to keep things regular! Tastes great and keeps you energised!
I recieved zero help when I left the RAF. It was a cluster. So I jumped into the civvy world abroad (Finland), went to university and learnt the language, worked in a local factory then moved into biz dev roles, travelled the world..blah blah. No-one is there to look after you when you walk out through the gates for the final time (51Sqn). Stay strong, remember you have skills. Adapt and overcome. It's never easy but the rewards are out there.
I'm an ex Raffie, ground lecky, retired now, but after I left, I was never unemployed, always did electrician maintenance type jobs, my training carried me all through. Had a few crap jobs, but some really good ones too. Carried on like I was still in, taking it as always rough with the smooth, loved my time in the forces.
@@comicmania2008 My miliatry attitude backfired on me to a degree. I got stuck in some poor jobs but i was determined to make thing work and stuck with them for much longer than I should have thinking if i put the effort in it would pay off.
Tim, I can ID with you 100%. When my time was done with the Paras, I will never forget my long walk to Aldershot train station alone. I had never felt so alone in my life. My lads were still in the camp and not one was allowed to see me off, I had an exemplary discharge btw. One thing that has always stuck in my mind is something that one of the class of 82 said to me when I was a recruit, "A problem is only a problem if you are not looking for a solution, you are the fucking solution, so get on it". Wise words from an old sweat that has stood me in good stead. I wish you well Tim, mucka, oppo etc. I also had very little contact from the men I served with. Once your gone, you're gone I guess.
I remember listening to an old marine in a tv doco. He said he heard when you leave it’s like if you had your arm in a bucket of water, and when you pull your arm out , you leaving is the difference you see left in that bucket. He said he felt it was more like a bucket of shit, because you’ll always have that smell on you, you can’t get rid of it. Well done Airborne🫡
Aged 64 now, I left the RAF after 12 years a/c tech on Tornado & Phantoms in Jan 93. I've never felt any of my jobs since to have been as important as that one. The RAF gave me an opportunity as I was a bum when I joined. I still miss it to this day. Oh, and I loathe people that don't turn up on time. 😇
Left the RAF same time as you, after 25 years. I spent 10 months unemployed so I filled time working in the garden and job hunting, 5 years working various companies in aircraft maintenance then 20+ years doing the same thing abroad, settled in South Africa now with my second wife,(1st marriage collapsed 3 years after leaving the mob). So yes lots of ups and downs but lots of good times too, yes had a stage of heavy drinking but luckily never alcoholic and simply stopped when I decided it wasn't a good idea. And I too really wish people would be on time, still bugs me to h*ll and gone! A good vid with some good advice, I was lucky being able to find work and staying in jobs until I decided I wanted to move, and I settled into civvy street reasonably easily, not too many trauma's. Good luck to anyone making the transition the old saying applies here, "Keep Calm And Carry On"
Just re-read my post here and it struck me one reason I had a relatively easy transition was the people I was working with, they were often ex services and mostly aviation orientated, so the transition was a soft one. Even my final job was working as a civilian with a military set up so I didn't see much change until I retired finally at 63. Which I had planned for well in advance, so again I was mentally prepared. Looking at other posts that seems to be the key not just physical preparation but mental prep is EXTREMELY important, and ACCEPTANCE of changed circumstances, easy to say sat here, not easy to achieve in reality.
Left in 2008 into recession, got a crap job as work was hard to find. Serious anger issues, family members saying they didn't recognise me, picking fights with men much bigger than me. A good friend introduced me to a friend of his who left the navy 5 years earlier. Dismissed him off the bat, he laughed and said give yourself 5 years to adjust it will take at least that. I was Catholic he was Protestant, grew up in the same town, we were indoctrinated to hate one another. Turned out to be the deepest friendship i ever had until he died. Good luck to anyone coming out, wish you the very best of luck
I left in 2012, had the summer completely off then started work. It was really hard to adjust to frankly feckless civilian colleagues. No Fs given for being late, being selfish or letting you down etc You've just got to learn to let it go and look after yourself and family.
Yes Tim. "When you leave the crewroom". I have done it twice. 18 years in RAF as Aircraft Engineer. 15 years in Formula One, travelling as IT Engineer. That reason for your ex workmates abandoning you is exactly what you say. They don't want to confront what is also their ultimate destiny. One has to be very strong within to combat the lack of PROCEDURE-TIMING-DICIPLINE.
22 Years Army Navigator and Recruit Instructor, really struggled when I left, was diagnosed and treated for PTSD before I left. Got a job as a full time Postie, 4 years later I had a huge mental breakdown and got in trouble with the law, was diagnosed with Depression and Stress. Now a part time Postie and my wife and I own our own business. 10 years down the line and life is good.
When I was in the RHKPF, a great boss gave me one of the best bits of advice I ever had. He said Ian, as an Inspector, you will look after your guys and girls. That's your duty and your job. Remember, no one will look out for your though. Don't forget to look after yourself. It's great to have good bosses that look after you, but never expect it. Always look after yourself as well as those you're responsible for.
I suffered from panic attacks for about ten years in my 30s. Absolutely your mind controls your body and can manifest pain wherever you think it should be happening. If your subconcious thinks you're having a heart attack it can manifest those pains. It can also paralyse the body with fear to the point where you are curled up on the floor unable to move. Glad you've beaten it because it can be a total nightmare!
as someone who has struggled with PTSD,clinical depression after leaving the infantry 20 years ago ,the way you describe the chaos in civy street is probably the best way i have heard it described , hopefully this video helps others to realise what is actually happening and that its ok to reach out and not suffer in silence ,because hitting the bottle (like me) and pushing family away wont solve the chaos around you.
Hi Tim, I'm ex RAF ground engineer for 15 years. Thanks for the videos you're putting up, they do help. My God, how I wish RAF would grow up. Take care. Steve K
You’re describing exactly how I feel mentally and physically I have been out since 2016 and I have been progressively getting worse. Absolutely everything you described it’s like you’re narrating my last seven years.
Absolutely the body keeps the score..after trauma, PTSD, symptoms will definitely show up at some point..be it anxiety depression, an episode of psychosis….can happen..even to High functioning people like Fighter Pilots….that side of you..embrace it…your not weak…your human..the body does keep the score…psychologists have known this ..like the broken heart syndrome..you’ve lost a partner, don’t know how to be without them so the partner dies with in 6 months. Embrace your humanness and embrace your strength..they are Not mutually exclusive….great commentary here..and you look great, look healthy day at a time mate! Nothing like the military..as former military I can totally relate. Your videos are life savers for us….and so very much appreciated
Thank you for your relatable honesty. It plays on my mind every day how trapped I am after the 21 yrs of RAF service... so far. I've signed on for the 30 yrs point purely to provide for my family and morgage payments, slave to the wage. But also because I fear the salary drop off and retraining for civvy street again. I worked part-time in civvy street while serving around 4 yrs ago. I found myself becoming frustrated with time keeping, attention to detail and my work colleagues lacked my dark sense of humour. I felt alienated and professionally frustrated with my employer. Tim, look after yourself.
When I was a kid I had a friend whose dad was a master sergeant in the USAF at Mildenhall, had also served in Vietnam. When he retired from the military they made him work in the pizza takeaway on the base for at least six months to help him transition from being that master sergeant to being a civilian.
Alcohol has a lot to answer for. If I drink everyday I quickly become nearly overwhelmed with anxiety over little things. Literally within 24hrs of not drinking the anxiety vanishes, problems automatically have solutions and the future looks bright. I really need to make the transition to permanent sobriety.
I’d just like to say thank you on behalf of all uk citizens,and how we appreciate you and your colleagues for all you have done as a pilot in defence of the uk.I admire your honesty and find it refreshing possibly it’s a requirement of your flying career.As I can only hear success in your voice I wish you good luck in all you now do.
I wish I could tell you everything but it did work out overtime and life is awesome now. What a tough tough tough transition. 7 years later I’m flying for a major airline and loving life. But it’s extremely refreshing to hear others like yourself talk about it. Thanks Brother.
Sorry to hear that story, I had a similar experience back in 1997, when I was 40. My GP got me back on track and helped me understand the effects of repeated stress over many months. Like you, I could not believe that the physical chest pain symptoms were caused by stress.
After over 8 years in the RN I had the softest landing possible - I went straight into studying for four years to be an osteopath. The wheels still fell off more than once. Now I better understand the link between the body, mind, and trauma, I’m able to help people in my work. It’s still uncomfortable some of the time, but I’m learning to be at home in the chaos. Thanks for sharing your experiences, and for encouraging others to seek help. Nice work.
Totally with you in this. Left Hereford in 2004 after 18 years, 211 days after an existential crisis, divorcing, feeling rejected, overly drinking, and where as soon as you walk out the lines you're forgotten. Twenty years later, married, family, career but I had a nasty habit of being devoted to the (new) job for the first decade which set me up for failure. You've gotta find balance - family, fitness, self-improvement then work in that order. For your sake and the family's.
My career was nowhere near as intense as almost everyone here, as a career logistics troop, but I've taken up flying hang gliders (as well as General Aviation) and helping to manage my local community like a small unit. They desperately needed the field NCO leadership that seems lacking everywhere in civillian life. It's definitely worth finding the community that needs your unique training and abilities after you get out.
This channel is getting addictive, wise words Tim. I live with a lot of retired US Vets (Philippines) seems to me their well looked after leaving in so many ways.. whereas UK Vets "Bull their Boots and march on" alone... bit of a sad indictment 😒
Strong words Tim - current serving RAF, just done over 20 years and coming to the end soon, separated from my wife and two autistic children, depression and negative thoughts all I seem to have these days - have not got a clue what to do if and when I leave
Thank you for your years of service. Anyone who served/ serves this once great country can hold their head up proud but they can overcome anything. You have loads to offer those worthy of your time my friend. Good luck my friend.
21 years here only 2 months left, looking forward to leaving, was a good career. Have a few ideas, hobby farm, travel for a bit around with my dogs, explore the country, hobbies (mtb, fishing). Open own business, lots of ideas to explore
its like the beginging of a film your down n out, at the start a montage of all your problems plays to sad music then we see you about your day lost doing stuff you maybe shouldnt hating yourself for it then sumthing happens and your like a sunrise in the dark the music turns to an uplifting tempo and we see you smashing your day you now love the hard stuff again your level of discipline returns people notice you again and most important you go and face the demons and they run, you turned up for yourself and became your own hero
Dan, as Tim says and as you know, nothing is easy in life, i watched my marriage go to hell in the RAF, i decided to leave as i could not bear to be around my wife (ex-wife now) i lost the plot, attempted suicide, obviously did'nt pull it off !!! left the RAF, started again, started again from scratch, lived and worked all over Europe, living in south west France now for the last 20 years having got remarried to a French girl......was it a struggle, YES, you are conditioned/formatted in the military, there is respect for rank, things get done on time, the world outside is not the same. Make a plan Dan, be selfish if you have to be, look out for number one......hope things work out for you. Its you who will make it work.
Brilliant podcast - I felt the same when I left the Royal Hong King police - normal was commanding well trained disciplined men in critical situations and when I left I went into the private sector in Europe and it was chaos. A fish out of water - floundering and flailing about. All new and alien and chaotic. All the stuff Tim mentioned. I always feel I would love to chat with Tim as a kindred spirit
Hi Tim. Good content!! I served 6 years (HMRM). 2007-13. Medically discharged with hearing loss. Last posting was RMB Chivenor. I had similar problems as you when I left. Couldn’t find a job for 2/3 years. Not enough experience etc. Marriage collapse. Got into trouble with the law numerous times. So to get out of the vicious circle I was in, I joined the local boxing gym. This I would highly recommend to any leavers. Fast forward to now. I own a construction company (Devon Build & Carpentry) with 5 employees (4x civvys and 1x 59er, no one’s perfect 😂) that are amazing. Good foundations is what is needed I have learnt. Do the basics extremely well (timings, word is your bond, banter etc) and life in civvy street becomes easier.
Understand & agree 100% ... when I left the Dutch air force, I went strait into civvy street, worked 5 shifts and lived hard ... drove myself nearly into the ground, met a lovely English girl (30+ years ago) and moved within 24 hours with her to the UK, we're still together now ... as soon as I came to the UK I had a short rest period of around 2 weeks to "climatize" ... and bang, I started to go at it full throttle again, found a few jobs and was doing two jobs at the same time ... after around 6 weeks, I suddenly had this massive toothache (strange as I never had toothaches before and had relative healthy teeth etc.), dentists pulled a wisdom tooth out (was still somewhat infected, but needed to be removed) ... once at home, I slept for nearly three days (according to the missus) ....and when I finally woke up it suddenly hit me, I felt numb and couldn't move ... and I recognised the symptoms, and couldn't believe I was having a panic attack, but I did. After that I started to take things somewhat slower ... and for the first time in at least two years I had a bit of rest and started to get myself back together again ....I eventually recovered with a lot of help from the missus, she stuck with me through thick and thin. Debriefing, readjusting a routine, having a plan of action and keeping focused is a must, in order to re-enter civvy street. And even to this day, I still miss the type of loyalty & comradery that you only find in the forces ... civvy street is whole different kettle of fish in that respect.(nowadays semi retired, but still keeping busy etc.).I haven't flown for nearly 20 years, last flight was in a PA-28 ...I could no longer financially sustain to keep my flying hours up to date, as some idiot decided to tax avgas, and even a Piper isn't that cheap to fill up, thirsty little rotax minx. But such is life, whenever I see a warbird or a jet around here, I always think, you lucky bastard 😊
Tim, 9 years in the RAF left in 96. Your story resonates with me it wasn’t until I actually got a job with a load of ex RAF that I felt at home in civilian Street. It took about two years to get used to the absolute carnage outside in Civi Street.
Hi Tim. I’m not military but I chucked in a property development business 20 years ago and since that I’ve been a professional sailor. I’ve sailed and instructed several crews of marines and also special forces including a crew that won the Sydney Hobart Race against some Australian ex military. So I’ve had a few weeks doing my best to lead and instruct hugely impressive men, some with serious PTSD, some without limbs, some suffering horrendously with mental issues. It was a privelidge. I can’t describe how bright, funny and disciplined they were. I get why today is such a shock. I find it hard to deal with the shoddy state of civvy street, and I’m not even military. So it must be really ducking annoying coming from a highly competent environment. Good man.
They say: If it doesn’t kill you, it’ll make you stronger. That can be true. But this can also happen: If it doesn’t kill you, it’ll may just cripple you. We can run, but we cannot hide. Our bodies do keep account of everything.
I had to leave Commercial Aviation two years ago due to Illness and being unable to obtain a Class 1 Medical. Like you, nobody wants to employ me despite having a Sales/Insurance background before Aviation. Before being an Airline Pilot all I had to do was upload a CV to a few websites and I'd have multiple calls a day offering Job opportunities. You did well avoiding the Airlines as it is genuinely the most boring Job I have ever had in my whole life. Keep up the videos Tim, love to hear your POV on things.
As a Commercial Airline Captain I’d respectfully disagree it’s a boring job. It’s probably “boring” compared to flying a fast jet but it’s certainly not boring in a conventional sense. I’m sorry you lost your class 1 and maybe that’s why you feel the way you do. Especially if you weren’t in the job for very long and didn’t progress very far up the ladder. I’m entrusted with a £80m, 90 tonne jet with up to 240 people behind me. Every day is different, the weather constantly changes, there’s always a tech issue or NOTAM that can affect the flight. You have to manage a crew and allow them to perform to their best potential without bossing them. I have to coordinate everything I do with the person next to me, ATC, cabin crew and the company to make sure every flight I do is safe and efficient. I get paid reasonably well but I can work any day of the week at any hour. Occasionally leaving my wife home alone for a few days whilst she deals with the dog, kids and house. It’s not an easy life, the company “own” you and you’re expected to ask “how high?“ when they say jump. Fortunately, I have the authority to say “STOP!” at any point when I’m not happy. It’s the legal responsibility I’ve earned and every now and again I will put a halt to things in the interest of safety. This is to keep myself alive, the 240 people behind me alive and stops the company being on the 10 O’clock news and the share price hammered in the morning. It’s not a responsibility I take lightly but it is certainly a privileged position to occupy. It’s not for everyone, it has it’s boring, mundane moments but the rewards are worth it IMHO. The majority of the time it is a very dynamic environment to work in. Best of luck with your career. 👍
@VmcgHD I'm pleased you enjoy it. The company owning me was something I definitely couldn't live with I think. I was lucky getting out with a payout and Income protection. Safe flying. Thanks
@@pja687687 Glad you’ve done ok out of it. It’s always a shame when we lose people due to redundancy, medical issues etc. Especially when you work so hard for it. I’m always relieved when people work things out and move onto other things. It is a lifestyle and it can take a lot out of you. The company owning you is a common trait with any employment nowadays I think. Unless you’re self employed of course. I considered myself “owned” for any company I work for so I generally don’t dwell on it. It’s a part of life and until I will the euromillions, I just have to put up with it. What I can do fortunately is run the show to my tune. I will do as much as I can and I will always try and keep the show on the road. But, it will always be to my tune I always have authority over that. Which empowers me and I gives me relief over the ownership mentality issue. 👍
Thanks Tim . Totally understand mate , I completed 6 years regular Army , in the process of retiring after 33 years in the Fire Service. Turns out I have PTSD from Road Crash exposure coupled with a toxic work culture. Just spent the last two years with Mental Health professionals trying to recover some normalacy. I should be a divorced Alcoholic. Thankfully i have had great family and professional support. I can relate to your challenges, well articulated mate. Stay Safe . ( Australia )*
You're right about the body telling us that things are not right. I worked as an injury Remedial/Rehab Massage Therapist and never took holidays as a contractor because we couldn't get cover and when we did finally take time off, we got sick, maybe because our bodies knew/subconsciously that we could. Yet also I used to get the crap kicked out of me by an older sibling and whilst laying on the floor getting my kidneys kicked I could mentally imagine that it didn't hurt and mind worked over matter. Not sure what professional psychologist's would say about that haha.
Psycho Somatic Pain feels like REAL pain, so yes I know exactly what you mean when you say the pain felt real pain!. Excellent video. I'm not military but my family is. Father, RAF, Grandfather RSM Brit Army, Brothers, Brit Army. Me? Retired Paramedic with a almost fanatical love of Aviation, particularly Military hence why I am a recent subscriber! Keep up the good work Tim, you're an inspiration!
I left in 2001 after 12 yrs service, even to this very day it annoys me that work colleagues “non military” regularly walk into work some 10-15 mins late every day. I cannot cope with it, I’ve been told to bite my lip, civvies after all these years still rile me with their selfish attitude!
Me too. I left in 2002 after Army Cadets and AF Reg, so I am a punctual person that has to be there a little bit early. Then I married a late person who has no sense of urgency and usually leaves home the time she needs to be somewhere. You can't fix other people's flaws, it has to come from within.
I retired from engineering aged 60 and had panic attacks ending up in a&e with your symptoms, I think it was the transition. My father flew Canberra's in the RAF and said going into civvy st was the hardest thing he ever did.
I was an RAF Airframes Technician for 12 years. It was difficult to initially acclimatise to civvie life, but managed it. I still carry one issue from my time in the RAF, had counselling, which didnt really help much, but just plod on day to day. Finally met someone who won't screw me over, which happened in the past, but like you, i'm immensely proud of serving my country. Best thing i ever did was sign on that dotted line back in 1984
Tim, 100% - Took me years and years to accept my physical (shitty chest pains, severe dizziness) conditions was stress related after leaving a 10 years career in the military. Based in the South West while family etc were up in Scotland.. Left with no real prospects of a further career, completely lost after such a structured life.. But to my point, after loads of cash on specialists, repeated visits to doctors I accepted there was a physiological element to my ailments... The brain releases stress hormone, and we experience flight or flight symptoms. Anyway, good content as always.
Had a very stressful journey back from the Le Mans 24 hour race ( long story) and had blisters and rashes come up on my hands and arms. The next dsy ...went to the doctors......told absolutely nothing wrong with me .......told by the doctor it was the stress from my journey......the power of the mind to manifest physical symptoms on your body is incredible,
I was Infantry and then Submarines. I have had opportunities to tour the world in bands (made no money poor as dirt). I tried working making parts for aircrafts and nuclear of which after 3 weeks I quit due to negative toxic unsociable enviroment. Now I am a support worker for learning disabled and it's the happiest I've ever been because I don't work with toxic people dont do 9-5 every day have long hours but more days off as a full timer. I have alot of down time and get to drive to nice places and see nice places, my food gets paid for. I get extra money for doing 'sleeps' and get to act like a child and its alot of fun. 😀 I seriosly can't believe I've found a job that actually makes me happy. I do not miss my experience in military. Thanks for your wisdom.
Well said, Sir! I was in the USAF for 23 years, I gave it all and loved it, got seriously hurt a couple of times but I still loved it. I'm turning 60 this year, and I've tried retirement, and I do not love it. My biggest problem now is the location that I am in . It is all DEI, and all of the other BS that goes along with it. I am trying to find something to do on a part time basis to have purpose and let me get out amongst the masses, but man, does it ever suck. Oh well, I'll keep pushing, and thank you for your great videos. You have helped me digest what I am going through.
I trained with 4 ex RAF guys. They were all totally different. Except for one, you'd never know they were ex Mil. All great guys. I'm one of those dudes who never turns his camera on in teams BTW!! Really blown away by you sharing the chest pains story. Had much the same experience just recently. Helps to know others are going through similar.
As a former Australian Army Medic - served in SF and other units across the land, with endless deployments. Your story resonates with me, after 13 years of service life (sheltered workshop). I was going through the same steps as you. No one but yourself is going to help. The only thing I noticed with me that I struggle with was - EGO - my ego, my pride, got in the way. Because no-one gives a shit, because they are self focused. Thank you for your story, keep smiling and don't forget be happy and healthy.
@@ÆthelwulfOfNordHymbraLand2333 yes I agree; we get told thanks for your service, we will look after you, when you get injured etc, but it's all virtual signalling. Anyway keep healthy and happy mate.
@@highcountrydelatite went through DVA hell to get gold card. Some claims easier than others. Depending on (3 different types) legislation. Glad you got the gold card mate, stay healthy and happy mate.
Been there done that. Dr Googling symptoms at 2 in the AM convincing myself I was about to depart this world. Transpires 37 years in the RAF left more of an impact on me than I did on it..
One word that hit home with me in this Tim, damaged.A lot of what you brought up in this I can relate to, even the StJames' Place !! I wasn't military, 20+ yrs front line policing (and a stint at Valley looking after a certain helo pilot). No, I wasn't dropping bombs or 500+mph at low level, but the blue light drive to a job while taking in info about the job, any weapons or violence markers? Where, in a rural setting, was my back-up ? .I loved it but now glad I'm out and it's taken until now (2yrs)to get it out of my system. Great video as usual Tim
It's great how you share this sort of experience. I'm sure it provides great comfort for anyone who may be in a similar situation. It's like two different worlds. I was in the Australian Army Reserve (Formerly Citizens Military Forces) in the 1970's. Even after going away for a couple of weeks with no contact with civilian life and then coming back felt weird. I can imagine it's a real issue for people who have been in prison for any length of time. My father joined the RAF in 1937 at the age of 17 and served for thirty-five years. From 1944 onwards he was an air traffic controller. When he left, he couldn't find a job. He went to a employment agency and was told that the only thing he was suited for was clerical work. I think it was a bitter pill for him to swallow to think that all the unique skills and demonstrated ability meant very little. He ended up as a sales representative for a transport company.
For what it's worth, starting up a business based on acquired skills is probably the best way to channel all that energy. It's a fantastic feeling to run your own show and after a bit, you can step back and enjoy the finer things in life - let somebody else run the thing.
What a brilliant video.... I've been in high pressure IT jobs for near 30 years now...OK it's not the RAF but found this video relevant. I came away from it nearly 3 years ago to look after my mum who's not in great health. Lost dad a year earlier with MND.. that was a living nightmare. Mum has carers now so it's time to get back to work. You take time out like this for the people you need/want to care for. She has carers now so I need to get back to work as spent up... easier said than done. So hard to find anything now. When you've been out of work for a while for valid reasons I think employers tend to brush past the CV, no matter the experience. I think this video is not just limited to the RAF or military... but a great reminder than this happens whatever the profession when you're stuck in a particular mindset/routine. Subscribed.
Just found your channel mate, was at Command for 4 years as a civvy and made some excellent acquaintances, some of whom, looking back, I am sure could relate. I have had my own problems which I've handled myself, quiety. It's tough when you realise no one gives a shit and dont want to burden anyone you love with it. Always better days ahead!
The being conditioned to threat and danger is interesting. I suffer badly with anxiety since leaving the military and have noticed that in my current job in the Ambulance service when the job is big sick my anxiety disappears and my mind clears but when the job is less stressful my thoughts run wild and I struggle to retain information and feel incredibly anxious. It's almost like most people in the military function better under stress and struggle to cope with normality. Obviously not everyone.
Former officer inmate at Sterling Lines here. When I left the military after 12 years it took all my effort to switch off my military switch - literally the day after I left. Was a deliberate psychological effort that I had to deal with many years later but it undoubtedly accelerated my transition and subsequent success outside. Was the mental version of an ice cold plunge pool!
I was booted from the USMC due to a disability which the Navy couldn’t fix. I didn’t want to get out but it wasn’t my choice. I went from managing a shop with 30+ people, fixing all the electronics on the Hornet (FA-18) radar, ecm, etc. to not being qualified for even a shift leader job at Mc Donald’s. I tired to get into civilian aviation but couldn’t pass the physical tests because of my condition. I think what I missed the most however was the esprit de corps. And maybe how we handled discipline issues without involving the chain of command, i was fired for taking care of an issue myself as a supposed manager instead of calling the regional manager to fix it. To this day, 32 years later, I still find civilians confusing.
Former RM here. The easiest way to understand civilians is that most of them don’t have a proper concept of ‘us’. To a civilian it’s you and it’s me. It might be you and me. But there is no us. For military we start with us. There might be a you and me, it might be you vs me. But it’s always us in the end and from the start. Bear in mind that this had to be trained into us and the penny will drop for you. The strength for them is that it takes a lot more to earn their sense of ‘us’. For most civilians us is reserved for family. It’s too intimate. I could go deeper on why nations need to have a sense of us but I’ll leave it at that. They also have a strength because they don’t have that buddy system we had/have. Hear me out- they have a more ‘if I don’t sort it nobody is going to be there to back me up’ mentality. Which means they are in a was more independent. The downside is that almost Everything is more transactional. And that excess of individuality makes them very selfish. They can treat long term relationships with even less intimacy than the short term ‘get close fast’ we have had to experience. Both approaches/realities have their plus and minus. On one level, don’t be confused - they deserve your pity. Bring the best of what you have to those who need it and bring them round. They will take a while to trust you but they will come round. Just like you did. But that means you have to be the standard. You have to be consistent. They will even try to get you to drop your standards like children testing you. Don’t do it. They will despise you for it and in a small way that’s right. Stop looking for the hero in them and just be one. You will bring the hero out of the ones who have it. On the other hand, accept some of reality that nations are not militaries and rightly so. Civil-isation done right is a beautiful thing. And if you are the right kind of humble they will bring out the civil in you. You’ll always be a lion. Nothing wrong with being cuddly. People love lions. But you’re not de-clawed and toothless. Don’t ever apologise for having what they need when the enemy shows up, whether that is in the workplace or in your self. Both Christ and the devil are described as being lions. One is the king the other is the enemy. Semper fidelis my distant brother. 🇺🇸 🇬🇧
Thanks Dude Totally agree with your opinion. I left the Forces after 23 years in Logistics and went self employed training in IT. I used my service skills and discipline to learn all I could about everything I could as quickly as possible to make me a usable commodity for employers to take on. I worked and studied 18 hour days to pick as much knowledge as I could. The people I work with can't believe how quickly I learn new stuff. My ethos is I'll be the one you come to because I know it before you do. Had never seen a civvy doctor since I was a kid, never had to wait to see a dentist and on it went. In my wardrobe I had white shirts and black suits, I looked like something out of MIB. Could not believe it was so hard to pick something to wear. It was just a different kind of uniform! Took me a long time to slow down and choose to wear something less formal to work! Same as you - only guy with the camera on in meetings - only person talking whether it was good or bad (but always trying to be constructive). One thing that did amaze me was I'd be the only person helping others at work because I could, not because I had to. Others would be stepping over people to get on. I spent a lot of time looking at people who had come out and what they went through and decided it would be different for me. Stopped drinking and carried on with phys and made that a life choice not to sit in a chair and veg. Kept to routine that gave my days structure instead of just wondering what to do next. What really scared me was the number of ex service people who are homeless and how they came to be that way, it all breaks down when you can't handle the chaos. Resettlement does not prepare you for the afterlife really and you're right - there is deafening silence from the service you left. Not many people outside understand the military environment and the sense of belonging and purpose, many people leaving don't comprehend that is a big part of what they are losing when they leave. Many ex service people have more ability than they realise, it is just bringing it out in them and giving people belief.
I did 22 years in the RAF as an engineer and had a easy transistion because I planned my exit and work strategy which made the transistion a lot easier which worked for me. I took a job in the military thinking about how it would transistion into civiy street when i left.
Joined at 16, worked on Rapier and was out by 1994, couldn't even get a job in a chicken factory when i left, today i earn well and with high level qual's behind me to masters level. The military will never leave any of us who served. It shapes our todays, and presents our tomorrow's, control the controllable's and appreciate everything around us. I value self growth and tend to swerve those who pull but never push.
Tim, I mentioned this to you before........................Your talents are wasted. What a great video with some extremely sound advice. I was one of the lucky ones.....40+ years in the mob and not looking forward to civvy street for all the reasons you have cited. Ended up leaving the RAF on a Friday and starting my new job three days later in a defence related educational environment....I viewed it as the first step in adjustment between a long military career and all of the vagaries of civvy street that you have so masterfully highlighted, like time-keeping...............arghhh !. Well done, mate. Keep up the good work with all that you do.
Just stumbled across your channel ...... bloody hell , I thought I was the only suave, adhd no doubt , intelligent , experienced , been shot at , loved , lived , done it all , and then again but backwards , 50 something year old dude who went though a major shift in all aspects of their lives and came out the other side smiling and much wiser. A similar what to do i.e not much you can do apart from hang on tight and wallow in it. Sometimes there are no simple answers apart from give it some time and one day it will all be fine and dandy and life is beautiful. It passes. Be present as much as possible and never flog yourself when things seem out of your control because that's when the really important deep deep healing is being done. Being re born expect some severe pain but my God it's worth it. God Bless Everyone !
Thank you so true , like the book 📕 the body holds the score, body holds on to trauma, unfortunately manifest in illness.I know to my own detriment, best of luck on your recovery journey, onwards and upwards.🥰
Hi Tim, V interesting commentary that resonated with me. I de-mobbed in 2016 after a 27 year career as a PTI, specialising as an Adventurous Training Instructor. One of my last tours was at the Joint School for Adventurous Training Instructors, Llanrwst (admin unit was Valley) where we trained and assessed the next generation of ATIs. The work was often stressful, leading groups on multi pitch rock climbs, padding big water, and winter mountaineering in arctic conditions in a white out with a group in tow, all of which carried significant risk and required astute judgement. It’s fair to say most days you were completely ‘wired’. I left the RAF on a Fri with a BA (Hons) and MA Ed under my belt and started work in the NHS on the Monday. I vividly remember taking off my uniform in the PEd Flt changing rooms for the last time. The PTI vest that was so much a part of my identity was taken off for the last time, never to be worn again. I sobbed. It was like experiencing a bereavement. I too made the mistake of expecting others to operate in the same way as I did. Whilst there is passion in abundance, the other qualities that I found important as a Serviceman seemingly had little store. It was a tough gig, initially, and a v steep learning curve. I’m 8 years in now and have found my way, but to do so I’ve have to recalibrate my outlook on life, whilst still preserving my core identity and values. Not easy! Great work, Tim. I look forward to your next videos. ‘Stick’
I was not in the military, however I like your honesty and words here… I’ve watched a few of your videos prior over the last few weeks and months, and I said I like this guy is a straight talker. 30+ years ago my dream was to join the RAF and be a pilot or the commercial route. Got improper guidance at the time from school and got sidetracked with another career. I truly believe one day I will attain my pilots license, You or your school will be my choice. Thanks
hello Pal ,had my introduction to you through chris thrall interview ,i enjoyed listening to your views ,wish you every success with your output and i,ll be watching with interest ,all the best Tim
I appreciate your video. My husband retired in 2016 after almost 25 years. Yes, first few years were rough and if you were in combat unit there is definitely no such a thing as soft landing.
You speak very openly about your alcohol addiction..i've not come from a military background but, I am OK being honest. I was getting really ill with high blood pressure, racing heart and I spoke to my doctor who wanted to do more checks on me but I ended up flipping a switch and I said to her, I think I know what I need to do... I got off the phone with her and decided from that day forward I'm not drinking alcohol the way I use to. I went from over 30pints a week to 4. My blood pressure went from 218/120 down to 130/80 in the next year and I feel much better now. I still allow myself those 4 pints but thats all, per week.
Only just seen this video Tim…always late to the party 🙈 I consider myself to have had a pretty soft landing after almost 23 year as a Fairy in the RAF. I officially left 1sr Feb 08 after 22 years service (plus 8 months for the Queen as under 18 when I joined), I actually left in about sept 07 with leave, resettlement etc. I secured work offshore and had my first trip away in Jan 08. On my last official day in the RAF (day before my 40th birthday) I was in Bergen getting shedded as boat was in dock and one of the guys lived in Bergen. Over the years there have been lean times (Covid was off for about 18 months with no work) but as with anything in life you just gotta crack on and make the best of it. Been off work last 3 months with a broken ankle but hey ho it’s nice to have time at home for a change….keep up,the great vids Tim
Thanks for sharing your story Tim. I understand and sympathise with what you went through. After 30 years in the Police, I walked out in 1997, before DEI and never retuned.It was already too 'PC' for me. I was determined to escape the organised routine and protected environment; definitely not taking a civvy job in the same organisation as so many do. I got a proper job, driving coaches until retirement 30years later.
I left the infantry indoctrinated, brainwashed, and institutionalized, feeling like a zombie. Now, I serve as an assistant manager at a major hard rock quarry, currently in my second year of pursuing a degree in mineral extraction. I'm thoroughly enjoying this new chapter. My two children are thriving in university, which brings me immense joy. Additionally, I'm married to a brilliant and beautiful woman who is financially successful. Despite moments of despair, such as standing on the edge of a mountain precipice contemplating ending it all, I ultimately chose to persevere, partly inspired by the motivational content in your videos. You touched my life.
Life is hard to chew, especially when you lose your teeth over the years.
When you’ve lost most of your teeth it’s best to just swallow your pride and move on 😅
@@rikitourangi815 You've improved my thought. Well done!
The body keeps the score. Superb book.
Now you stand on the edge of a cliff and you earn money good on you
22 years in the irish military...this is one of the most honest and straight forward explanation and experience of leaving the military I have heard ....should be shown in all pre discharge courses
Great video
Leaving thr RAF after 27 years, having palpitations and panic attacks in private because I know its just the stress of loosing the safety net I've grown used too. I have strong wife supporting me, however, I'm not sleeping and not showing my anxiety because, I know it will be OK in the long term. Appreciate your honesty as its confirming the normality of our situation and how common it is.
Hi Edwin, I work with folks leaving the military as a coach and try and help with that transition. I’m currently in, and more than happy to have a conversation if you think it could help.
Have a look into the carnivore or ketovore diet. It could help.
Oh, make sure you eat enough fat! Add butter to everything. Tastes great and greases the tubes to keep things regular! Tastes great and keeps you energised!
I recieved zero help when I left the RAF.
It was a cluster. So I jumped into the civvy world abroad (Finland), went to university and learnt the language, worked in a local factory then moved into biz dev roles, travelled the world..blah blah.
No-one is there to look after you when you walk out through the gates for the final time (51Sqn).
Stay strong, remember you have skills. Adapt and overcome. It's never easy but the rewards are out there.
I was infantry and I fell into building work. The work is honest, you can say what you want, and your word is your bond.
I'm an ex Raffie, ground lecky, retired now, but after I left, I was never unemployed, always did electrician maintenance type jobs, my training carried me all through. Had a few crap jobs, but some really good ones too. Carried on like I was still in, taking it as always rough with the smooth, loved my time in the forces.
7 years in the infantry too, same story as yours but what surprised most was the amount of bitches in the building trade.
@@comicmania2008 My miliatry attitude backfired on me to a degree. I got stuck in some poor jobs but i was determined to make thing work and stuck with them for much longer than I should have thinking if i put the effort in it would pay off.
Tim, I can ID with you 100%. When my time was done with the Paras, I will never forget my long walk to Aldershot train station alone. I had never felt so alone in my life. My lads were still in the camp and not one was allowed to see me off, I had an exemplary discharge btw. One thing that has always stuck in my mind is something that one of the class of 82 said to me when I was a recruit, "A problem is only a problem if you are not looking for a solution, you are the fucking solution, so get on it". Wise words from an old sweat that has stood me in good stead. I wish you well Tim, mucka, oppo etc.
I also had very little contact from the men I served with. Once your gone, you're gone I guess.
I remember listening to an old marine in a tv doco. He said he heard when you leave it’s like if you had your arm in a bucket of water, and when you pull your arm out , you leaving is the difference you see left in that bucket.
He said he felt it was more like a bucket of shit, because you’ll always have that smell on you, you can’t get rid of it.
Well done Airborne🫡
That sounds more like a prison sentence than a respectable service career.
You are correct in that you are quickly forgotten about. Sad bùt part of life's great tapestry
Aged 64 now, I left the RAF after 12 years a/c tech on Tornado & Phantoms in Jan 93. I've never felt any of my jobs since to have been as important as that one. The RAF gave me an opportunity as I was a bum when I joined. I still miss it to this day. Oh, and I loathe people that don't turn up on time. 😇
Leuchars perchance?
@@Div3r No. Laarbruch and Wildenrath.
Left the RAF same time as you, after 25 years. I spent 10 months unemployed so I filled time working in the garden and job hunting, 5 years working various companies in aircraft maintenance then 20+ years doing the same thing abroad, settled in South Africa now with my second wife,(1st marriage collapsed 3 years after leaving the mob).
So yes lots of ups and downs but lots of good times too, yes had a stage of heavy drinking but luckily never alcoholic and simply stopped when I decided it wasn't a good idea. And I too really wish people would be on time, still bugs me to h*ll and gone!
A good vid with some good advice, I was lucky being able to find work and staying in jobs until I decided I wanted to move, and I settled into civvy street reasonably easily, not too many trauma's.
Good luck to anyone making the transition the old saying applies here, "Keep Calm And Carry On"
Just re-read my post here and it struck me one reason I had a relatively easy transition was the people I was working with, they were often ex services and mostly aviation orientated, so the transition was a soft one. Even my final job was working as a civilian with a military set up so I didn't see much change until I retired finally at 63. Which I had planned for well in advance, so again I was mentally prepared. Looking at other posts that seems to be the key not just physical preparation but mental prep is EXTREMELY important, and ACCEPTANCE of changed circumstances, easy to say sat here, not easy to achieve in reality.
Left in 91 after 11 years in the Raf. I still don't fit in today. My values are still the same as when in, you don't change. Great videos.
Same here...
Left in 2008 into recession, got a crap job as work was hard to find. Serious anger issues, family members saying they didn't recognise me, picking fights with men much bigger than me. A good friend introduced me to a friend of his who left the navy 5 years earlier. Dismissed him off the bat, he laughed and said give yourself 5 years to adjust it will take at least that. I was Catholic he was Protestant, grew up in the same town, we were indoctrinated to hate one another. Turned out to be the deepest friendship i ever had until he died. Good luck to anyone coming out, wish you the very best of luck
Just finished the book The body keeps the score. The DR that spoke to you is a rare breed these days.
Great channel mate
I left in 2012, had the summer completely off then started work.
It was really hard to adjust to frankly feckless civilian colleagues.
No Fs given for being late, being selfish or letting you down etc
You've just got to learn to let it go and look after yourself and family.
Yes Tim.
"When you leave the crewroom".
I have done it twice.
18 years in RAF as Aircraft Engineer.
15 years in Formula One, travelling as IT Engineer.
That reason for your ex workmates abandoning you is exactly what you say. They don't want to confront what is also their ultimate destiny.
One has to be very strong within to combat the lack of PROCEDURE-TIMING-DICIPLINE.
22 Years Army Navigator and Recruit Instructor, really struggled when I left, was diagnosed and treated for PTSD before I left. Got a job as a full time Postie, 4 years later I had a huge mental breakdown and got in trouble with the law, was diagnosed with Depression and Stress. Now a part time Postie and my wife and I own our own business. 10 years down the line and life is good.
When I was in the RHKPF, a great boss gave me one of the best bits of advice I ever had. He said Ian, as an Inspector, you will look after your guys and girls. That's your duty and your job. Remember, no one will look out for your though. Don't forget to look after yourself. It's great to have good bosses that look after you, but never expect it. Always look after yourself as well as those you're responsible for.
Good luck, mate. From a former Infantry officer.
I suffered from panic attacks for about ten years in my 30s. Absolutely your mind controls your body and can manifest pain wherever you think it should be happening. If your subconcious thinks you're having a heart attack it can manifest those pains. It can also paralyse the body with fear to the point where you are curled up on the floor unable to move. Glad you've beaten it because it can be a total nightmare!
Totally understand your situation, pleased you've stopped drinking and good luck for the future.
as someone who has struggled with PTSD,clinical depression after leaving the infantry 20 years ago ,the way you describe the chaos in civy street is probably the best way i have heard it described , hopefully this video helps others to realise what is actually happening and that its ok to reach out and not suffer in silence ,because hitting the bottle (like me) and pushing family away wont solve the chaos around you.
Hi Tim, I'm ex RAF ground engineer for 15 years. Thanks for the videos you're putting up, they do help. My God, how I wish RAF would grow up.
Take care.
Steve K
That's really kind of you, helps to know there's support out there and much appreciated for everything you did to keep us safe when we were flying.
You’re describing exactly how I feel mentally and physically I have been out since 2016 and I have been progressively getting worse. Absolutely everything you described it’s like you’re narrating my last seven years.
I'm putting my course back together and getting a book out on it soon, look out for it, it will help.
Absolutely the body keeps the score..after trauma, PTSD, symptoms will definitely show up at some point..be it anxiety depression, an episode of psychosis….can happen..even to High functioning people like Fighter Pilots….that side of you..embrace it…your not weak…your human..the body does keep the score…psychologists have known this ..like the broken heart syndrome..you’ve lost a partner, don’t know how to be without them so the partner dies with in 6 months. Embrace your humanness and embrace your strength..they are Not mutually exclusive….great commentary here..and you look great, look healthy day at a time mate! Nothing like the military..as former military I can totally relate. Your videos are life savers for us….and so very much appreciated
Thank you for your relatable honesty. It plays on my mind every day how trapped I am after the 21 yrs of RAF service... so far. I've signed on for the 30 yrs point purely to provide for my family and morgage payments, slave to the wage. But also because I fear the salary drop off and retraining for civvy street again.
I worked part-time in civvy street while serving around 4 yrs ago. I found myself becoming frustrated with time keeping, attention to detail and my work colleagues lacked my dark sense of humour. I felt alienated and professionally frustrated with my employer.
Tim, look after yourself.
When I was a kid I had a friend whose dad was a master sergeant in the USAF at Mildenhall, had also served in Vietnam. When he retired from the military they made him work in the pizza takeaway on the base for at least six months to help him transition from being that master sergeant to being a civilian.
What a change in reality - probably the best thing for him at that time
@@dugandav1 Yeah, but internally it would have been killing him.
Alcohol has a lot to answer for. If I drink everyday I quickly become nearly overwhelmed with anxiety over little things.
Literally within 24hrs of not drinking the anxiety vanishes, problems automatically have solutions and the future looks bright.
I really need to make the transition to permanent sobriety.
When you drink all the bad stuff rises to the top
@MichelleStaunton-ob3pj very true, get rid of the distractions and the world's your oyster.
I’d just like to say thank you on behalf of all uk citizens,and how we appreciate you and your colleagues for all you have done as a pilot in defence of the uk.I admire your honesty and find it refreshing possibly it’s a requirement of your flying career.As I can only hear success in your voice I wish you good luck in all you now do.
Thank you, very kind of you and I wish you well.
That’s a bloody generous share. Expect it’ll help so many people who are in the same situation. Nice one
I wish I could tell you everything but it did work out overtime and life is awesome now. What a tough tough tough transition. 7 years later I’m flying for a major airline and loving life. But it’s extremely refreshing to hear others like yourself talk about it. Thanks Brother.
Sorry to hear that story, I had a similar experience back in 1997, when I was 40. My GP got me back on track and helped me understand the effects of repeated stress over many months. Like you, I could not believe that the physical chest pain symptoms were caused by stress.
After over 8 years in the RN I had the softest landing possible - I went straight into studying for four years to be an osteopath. The wheels still fell off more than once. Now I better understand the link between the body, mind, and trauma, I’m able to help people in my work.
It’s still uncomfortable some of the time, but I’m learning to be at home in the chaos.
Thanks for sharing your experiences, and for encouraging others to seek help.
Nice work.
Totally with you in this. Left Hereford in 2004 after 18 years, 211 days after an existential crisis, divorcing, feeling rejected, overly drinking, and where as soon as you walk out the lines you're forgotten. Twenty years later, married, family, career but I had a nasty habit of being devoted to the (new) job for the first decade which set me up for failure. You've gotta find balance - family, fitness, self-improvement then work in that order. For your sake and the family's.
My career was nowhere near as intense as almost everyone here, as a career logistics troop, but I've taken up flying hang gliders (as well as General Aviation) and helping to manage my local community like a small unit. They desperately needed the field NCO leadership that seems lacking everywhere in civillian life. It's definitely worth finding the community that needs your unique training and abilities after you get out.
This channel is getting addictive, wise words Tim. I live with a lot of retired US Vets (Philippines) seems to me their well looked after leaving in so many ways.. whereas UK Vets "Bull their Boots and march on" alone... bit of a sad indictment 😒
Strong words Tim - current serving RAF, just done over 20 years and coming to the end soon, separated from my wife and two autistic children, depression and negative thoughts all I seem to have these days - have not got a clue what to do if and when I leave
Thank you for your years of service. Anyone who served/ serves this once great country can hold their head up proud but they can overcome anything. You have loads to offer those worthy of your time my friend. Good luck my friend.
21 years here only 2 months left, looking forward to leaving, was a good career. Have a few ideas, hobby farm, travel for a bit around with my dogs, explore the country, hobbies (mtb, fishing). Open own business, lots of ideas to explore
Suggest you stay where you are until you are in a better place mentally unless it's the RAF that's the cause of your issues.
its like the beginging of a film your down n out, at the start a montage of all your problems plays to sad music then we see you about your day lost doing stuff you maybe shouldnt hating yourself for it then sumthing happens and your like a sunrise in the dark the music turns to an uplifting tempo and we see you smashing your day you now love the hard stuff again your level of discipline returns people notice you again and most important you go and face the demons and they run,
you turned up for yourself and became your own hero
Dan, as Tim says and as you know, nothing is easy in life, i watched my marriage go to hell in the RAF, i decided to leave as i could not bear to be around my wife (ex-wife now) i lost the plot, attempted suicide, obviously did'nt pull it off !!! left the RAF, started again, started again from scratch, lived and worked all over Europe, living in south west France now for the last 20 years having got remarried to a French girl......was it a struggle, YES, you are conditioned/formatted in the military, there is respect for rank, things get done on time, the world outside is not the same.
Make a plan Dan, be selfish if you have to be, look out for number one......hope things work out for you.
Its you who will make it work.
Found your channel today. Thank God. Speaking truths. Never stop! Keep them coming .... the more honest the better! Thank you for the uploads.
You would make a brilliant life / leadership / business-relationship coach - you’re a natural
Tim should look at Take Point Training if he ever needs a steady gig.
Thanks Tim. Really insightful. OF5 going through a similar transition. Your honesty is welcomed.
Brilliant podcast - I felt the same when I left the Royal Hong King police - normal was commanding well trained disciplined men in critical situations and when I left I went into the private sector in Europe and it was chaos. A fish out of water - floundering and flailing about. All new and alien and chaotic. All the stuff Tim mentioned.
I always feel I would love to chat with Tim as a kindred spirit
Hi Tim. Good content!! I served 6 years (HMRM). 2007-13. Medically discharged with hearing loss. Last posting was RMB Chivenor. I had similar problems as you when I left. Couldn’t find a job for 2/3 years. Not enough experience etc. Marriage collapse. Got into trouble with the law numerous times. So to get out of the vicious circle I was in, I joined the local boxing gym. This I would highly recommend to any leavers. Fast forward to now. I own a construction company (Devon Build & Carpentry) with 5 employees (4x civvys and 1x 59er, no one’s perfect 😂) that are amazing. Good foundations is what is needed I have learnt. Do the basics extremely well (timings, word is your bond, banter etc) and life in civvy street becomes easier.
I've just discovered your channel Tim. Your honesty and decency shines through. More strength to you brother.
Understand & agree 100% ... when I left the Dutch air force, I went strait into civvy street, worked 5 shifts and lived hard ... drove myself nearly into the ground, met a lovely English girl (30+ years ago) and moved within 24 hours with her to the UK, we're still together now ... as soon as I came to the UK I had a short rest period of around 2 weeks to "climatize" ... and bang, I started to go at it full throttle again, found a few jobs and was doing two jobs at the same time ... after around 6 weeks, I suddenly had this massive toothache (strange as I never had toothaches before and had relative healthy teeth etc.), dentists pulled a wisdom tooth out (was still somewhat infected, but needed to be removed) ... once at home, I slept for nearly three days (according to the missus) ....and when I finally woke up it suddenly hit me, I felt numb and couldn't move ... and I recognised the symptoms, and couldn't believe I was having a panic attack, but I did. After that I started to take things somewhat slower ... and for the first time in at least two years I had a bit of rest and started to get myself back together again ....I eventually recovered with a lot of help from the missus, she stuck with me through thick and thin. Debriefing, readjusting a routine, having a plan of action and keeping focused is a must, in order to re-enter civvy street. And even to this day, I still miss the type of loyalty & comradery that you only find in the forces ... civvy street is whole different kettle of fish in that respect.(nowadays semi retired, but still keeping busy etc.).I haven't flown for nearly 20 years, last flight was in a PA-28 ...I could no longer financially sustain to keep my flying hours up to date, as some idiot decided to tax avgas, and even a Piper isn't that cheap to fill up, thirsty little rotax minx. But such is life, whenever I see a warbird or a jet around here, I always think, you lucky bastard 😊
Tim, 9 years in the RAF left in 96. Your story resonates with me it wasn’t until I actually got a job with a load of ex RAF that I felt at home in civilian Street. It took about two years to get used to the absolute carnage outside in Civi Street.
Hi Tim. I’m not military but I chucked in a property development business 20 years ago and since that I’ve been a professional sailor. I’ve sailed and instructed several crews of marines and also special forces including a crew that won the Sydney Hobart Race against some Australian ex military. So I’ve had a few weeks doing my best to lead and instruct hugely impressive men, some with serious PTSD, some without limbs, some suffering horrendously with mental issues.
It was a privelidge. I can’t describe how bright, funny and disciplined they were.
I get why today is such a shock. I find it hard to deal with the shoddy state of civvy street, and I’m not even military. So it must be really ducking annoying coming from a highly competent environment.
Good man.
Never read a comments section like this before. Impressed. Good luck to you all.
They say: If it doesn’t kill you, it’ll make you stronger. That can be true. But this can also happen: If it doesn’t kill you, it’ll may just cripple you. We can run, but we cannot hide. Our bodies do keep account of everything.
You really should do public speaking Tim. You are a very clever man and a very likeable man. I think you’re a diamond. Take it easy. Craig 🙂👍🏼
Good to know we're not alone. Good Kraik, Brother
I had to leave Commercial Aviation two years ago due to Illness and being unable to obtain a Class 1 Medical. Like you, nobody wants to employ me despite having a Sales/Insurance background before Aviation. Before being an Airline Pilot all I had to do was upload a CV to a few websites and I'd have multiple calls a day offering Job opportunities. You did well avoiding the Airlines as it is genuinely the most boring Job I have ever had in my whole life. Keep up the videos Tim, love to hear your POV on things.
As a Commercial Airline Captain I’d respectfully disagree it’s a boring job. It’s probably “boring” compared to flying a fast jet but it’s certainly not boring in a conventional sense. I’m sorry you lost your class 1 and maybe that’s why you feel the way you do. Especially if you weren’t in the job for very long and didn’t progress very far up the ladder. I’m entrusted with a £80m, 90 tonne jet with up to 240 people behind me. Every day is different, the weather constantly changes, there’s always a tech issue or NOTAM that can affect the flight. You have to manage a crew and allow them to perform to their best potential without bossing them. I have to coordinate everything I do with the person next to me, ATC, cabin crew and the company to make sure every flight I do is safe and efficient. I get paid reasonably well but I can work any day of the week at any hour. Occasionally leaving my wife home alone for a few days whilst she deals with the dog, kids and house. It’s not an easy life, the company “own” you and you’re expected to ask “how high?“ when they say jump. Fortunately, I have the authority to say “STOP!” at any point when I’m not happy. It’s the legal responsibility I’ve earned and every now and again I will put a halt to things in the interest of safety. This is to keep myself alive, the 240 people behind me alive and stops the company being on the 10 O’clock news and the share price hammered in the morning. It’s not a responsibility I take lightly but it is certainly a privileged position to occupy. It’s not for everyone, it has it’s boring, mundane moments but the rewards are worth it IMHO. The majority of the time it is a very dynamic environment to work in. Best of luck with your career. 👍
@VmcgHD I'm pleased you enjoy it. The company owning me was something I definitely couldn't live with I think. I was lucky getting out with a payout and Income protection. Safe flying. Thanks
@@pja687687 Glad you’ve done ok out of it. It’s always a shame when we lose people due to redundancy, medical issues etc. Especially when you work so hard for it. I’m always relieved when people work things out and move onto other things. It is a lifestyle and it can take a lot out of you. The company owning you is a common trait with any employment nowadays I think. Unless you’re self employed of course. I considered myself “owned” for any company I work for so I generally don’t dwell on it. It’s a part of life and until I will the euromillions, I just have to put up with it. What I can do fortunately is run the show to my tune. I will do as much as I can and I will always try and keep the show on the road. But, it will always be to my tune I always have authority over that. Which empowers me and I gives me relief over the ownership mentality issue. 👍
Thanks Tim . Totally understand mate , I completed 6 years regular Army , in the process of retiring after 33 years in the Fire Service. Turns out I have PTSD from Road Crash exposure coupled with a toxic work culture. Just spent the last two years with Mental Health professionals trying to recover some normalacy. I should be a divorced Alcoholic. Thankfully i have had great family and professional support. I can relate to your challenges, well articulated mate.
Stay Safe .
( Australia )*
Strong words Timmy. Hope you’re ok Bro
You're right about the body telling us that things are not right. I worked as an injury Remedial/Rehab Massage Therapist and never took holidays as a contractor because we couldn't get cover and when we did finally take time off, we got sick, maybe because our bodies knew/subconsciously that we could. Yet also I used to get the crap kicked out of me by an older sibling and whilst laying on the floor getting my kidneys kicked I could mentally imagine that it didn't hurt and mind worked over matter. Not sure what professional psychologist's would say about that haha.
Sound words Tim - I think your new vocation in life, is helping others…
when u leave u leave its so true howerer my buddys did so blood is very thick for us but after 3 years.......
Psycho Somatic Pain feels like REAL pain, so yes I know exactly what you mean when you say the pain felt real pain!. Excellent video. I'm not military but my family is. Father, RAF, Grandfather RSM Brit Army, Brothers, Brit Army. Me? Retired Paramedic with a almost fanatical love of Aviation, particularly Military hence why I am a recent subscriber! Keep up the good work Tim, you're an inspiration!
I left in 2001 after 12 yrs service, even to this very day it annoys me that work colleagues “non military” regularly walk into work some 10-15 mins late every day. I cannot cope with it, I’ve been told to bite my lip, civvies after all these years still rile me with their selfish attitude!
Me too. I left in 2002 after Army Cadets and AF Reg, so I am a punctual person that has to be there a little bit early.
Then I married a late person who has no sense of urgency and usually leaves home the time she needs to be somewhere.
You can't fix other people's flaws, it has to come from within.
You are amazing. I could listen to you all day .
Thank you for sharing .😊
..amazing non-heart attack and the healing power of conversation afterwards…have always known that - the healing power of good conversation..
I retired from engineering aged 60 and had panic attacks ending up in a&e with your symptoms, I think it was the transition. My father flew Canberra's in the RAF and said going into civvy st was the hardest thing he ever did.
Excellent empathy as usual
I was an RAF Airframes Technician for 12 years. It was difficult to initially acclimatise to civvie life, but managed it. I still carry one issue from my time in the RAF, had counselling, which didnt really help much, but just plod on day to day. Finally met someone who won't screw me over, which happened in the past, but like you, i'm immensely proud of serving my country. Best thing i ever did was sign on that dotted line back in 1984
Tim, 100% - Took me years and years to accept my physical (shitty chest pains, severe dizziness) conditions was stress related after leaving a 10 years career in the military. Based in the South West while family etc were up in Scotland.. Left with no real prospects of a further career, completely lost after such a structured life.. But to my point, after loads of cash on specialists, repeated visits to doctors I accepted there was a physiological element to my ailments... The brain releases stress hormone, and we experience flight or flight symptoms. Anyway, good content as always.
Had a very stressful journey back from the Le Mans 24 hour race ( long story) and had blisters and rashes come up on my hands and arms. The next dsy ...went to the doctors......told absolutely nothing wrong with me .......told by the doctor it was the stress from my journey......the power of the mind to manifest physical symptoms on your body is incredible,
I was Infantry and then Submarines. I have had opportunities to tour the world in bands (made no money poor as dirt). I tried working making parts for aircrafts and nuclear of which after 3 weeks I quit due to negative toxic unsociable enviroment. Now I am a support worker for learning disabled and it's the happiest I've ever been because I don't work with toxic people dont do 9-5 every day have long hours but more days off as a full timer. I have alot of down time and get to drive to nice places and see nice places, my food gets paid for. I get extra money for doing 'sleeps' and get to act like a child and its alot of fun. 😀 I seriosly can't believe I've found a job that actually makes me happy. I do not miss my experience in military. Thanks for your wisdom.
Same for me - never had any contact with anyone I knew from the military.
Wish I had this advice 10 years ago after 27 years in the infantry, never a truer word said. Thanks.
Tim, be proud of not only what you did, what you are doing, but also what you will do. Cheers. Blue skies.
Well said, Sir! I was in the USAF for 23 years, I gave it all and loved it, got seriously hurt a couple of times but I still loved it. I'm turning 60 this year, and I've tried retirement, and I do not love it. My biggest problem now is the location that I am in . It is all DEI, and all of the other BS that goes along with it. I am trying to find something to do on a part time basis to have purpose and let me get out amongst the masses, but man, does it ever suck. Oh well, I'll keep pushing, and thank you for your great videos. You have helped me digest what I am going through.
thanks for the talk sir.
I trained with 4 ex RAF guys. They were all totally different. Except for one, you'd never know they were ex Mil. All great guys. I'm one of those dudes who never turns his camera on in teams BTW!! Really blown away by you sharing the chest pains story. Had much the same experience just recently. Helps to know others are going through similar.
As a former Australian Army Medic - served in SF and other units across the land, with endless deployments. Your story resonates with me, after 13 years of service life (sheltered workshop). I was going through the same steps as you. No one but yourself is going to help. The only thing I noticed with me that I struggle with was - EGO - my ego, my pride, got in the way. Because no-one gives a shit, because they are self focused. Thank you for your story, keep smiling and don't forget be happy and healthy.
That's the problem: you guys think it's 'service life' and will be respected going back into general society.
@@ÆthelwulfOfNordHymbraLand2333 yes I agree; we get told thanks for your service, we will look after you, when you get injured etc, but it's all virtual signalling. Anyway keep healthy and happy mate.
@@highcountrydelatite went through DVA hell to get gold card. Some claims easier than others. Depending on (3 different types) legislation. Glad you got the gold card mate, stay healthy and happy mate.
@@highcountrydelatite you must be very special, good luck with it all.
Been there done that. Dr Googling symptoms at 2 in the AM convincing myself I was about to depart this world. Transpires 37 years in the RAF left more of an impact on me than I did on it..
This is why UA-cam is a force for Good. Such a useful Tool😎👍
One word that hit home with me in this Tim, damaged.A lot of what you brought up in this I can relate to, even the StJames' Place !! I wasn't military, 20+ yrs front line policing (and a stint at Valley looking after a certain helo pilot). No, I wasn't dropping bombs or 500+mph at low level, but the blue light drive to a job while taking in info about the job, any weapons or violence markers? Where, in a rural setting, was my back-up ? .I loved it but now glad I'm out and it's taken until now (2yrs)to get it out of my system. Great video as usual Tim
It's great how you share this sort of experience. I'm sure it provides great comfort for anyone who may be in a similar situation.
It's like two different worlds. I was in the Australian Army Reserve (Formerly Citizens Military Forces) in the 1970's. Even after going away for a couple of weeks with no contact with civilian life and then coming back felt weird. I can imagine it's a real issue for people who have been in prison for any length of time.
My father joined the RAF in 1937 at the age of 17 and served for thirty-five years. From 1944 onwards he was an air traffic controller. When he left, he couldn't find a job. He went to a employment agency and was told that the only thing he was suited for was clerical work. I think it was a bitter pill for him to swallow to think that all the unique skills and demonstrated ability meant very little.
He ended up as a sales representative for a transport company.
For what it's worth, starting up a business based on acquired skills is probably the best way to channel all that energy. It's a fantastic feeling to run your own show and after a bit, you can step back and enjoy the finer things in life - let somebody else run the thing.
What a brilliant video....
I've been in high pressure IT jobs for near 30 years now...OK it's not the RAF but found this video relevant. I came away from it nearly 3 years ago to look after my mum who's not in great health. Lost dad a year earlier with MND.. that was a living nightmare. Mum has carers now so it's time to get back to work. You take time out like this for the people you need/want to care for. She has carers now so I need to get back to work as spent up... easier said than done. So hard to find anything now. When you've been out of work for a while for valid reasons I think employers tend to brush past the CV, no matter the experience.
I think this video is not just limited to the RAF or military... but a great reminder than this happens whatever the profession when you're stuck in a particular mindset/routine.
Subscribed.
Just found your channel mate, was at Command for 4 years as a civvy and made some excellent acquaintances, some of whom, looking back, I am sure could relate. I have had my own problems which I've handled myself, quiety. It's tough when you realise no one gives a shit and dont want to burden anyone you love with it. Always better days ahead!
Know when you leave, you are different and mighty.
on time every time Sir its wat we do
The being conditioned to threat and danger is interesting. I suffer badly with anxiety since leaving the military and have noticed that in my current job in the Ambulance service when the job is big sick my anxiety disappears and my mind clears but when the job is less stressful my thoughts run wild and I struggle to retain information and feel incredibly anxious. It's almost like most people in the military function better under stress and struggle to cope with normality. Obviously not everyone.
Former officer inmate at Sterling Lines here. When I left the military after 12 years it took all my effort to switch off my military switch - literally the day after I left. Was a deliberate psychological effort that I had to deal with many years later but it undoubtedly accelerated my transition and subsequent success outside. Was the mental version of an ice cold plunge pool!
I was booted from the USMC due to a disability which the Navy couldn’t fix. I didn’t want to get out but it wasn’t my choice. I went from managing a shop with 30+ people, fixing all the electronics on the Hornet (FA-18) radar, ecm, etc. to not being qualified for even a shift leader job at Mc Donald’s. I tired to get into civilian aviation but couldn’t pass the physical tests because of my condition. I think what I missed the most however was the esprit de corps. And maybe how we handled discipline issues without involving the chain of command, i was fired for taking care of an issue myself as a supposed manager instead of calling the regional manager to fix it. To this day, 32 years later, I still find civilians confusing.
Former RM here. The easiest way to understand civilians is that most of them don’t have a proper concept of ‘us’.
To a civilian it’s you and it’s me. It might be you and me. But there is no us.
For military we start with us. There might be a you and me, it might be you vs me. But it’s always us in the end and from the start.
Bear in mind that this had to be trained into us and the penny will drop for you.
The strength for them is that it takes a lot more to earn their sense of ‘us’. For most civilians us is reserved for family. It’s too intimate. I could go deeper on why nations need to have a sense of us but I’ll leave it at that.
They also have a strength because they don’t have that buddy system we had/have. Hear me out- they have a more ‘if I don’t sort it nobody is going to be there to back me up’ mentality. Which means they are in a was more independent.
The downside is that almost Everything is more transactional. And that excess of individuality makes them very selfish. They can treat long term relationships with even less intimacy than the short term ‘get close fast’ we have had to experience.
Both approaches/realities have their plus and minus.
On one level, don’t be confused - they deserve your pity. Bring the best of what you have to those who need it and bring them round. They will take a while to trust you but they will come round. Just like you did. But that means you have to be the standard. You have to be consistent. They will even try to get you to drop your standards like children testing you. Don’t do it. They will despise you for it and in a small way that’s right. Stop looking for the hero in them and just be one. You will bring the hero out of the ones who have it.
On the other hand, accept some of reality that nations are not militaries and rightly so. Civil-isation done right is a beautiful thing. And if you are the right kind of humble they will bring out the civil in you.
You’ll always be a lion. Nothing wrong with being cuddly. People love lions. But you’re not de-clawed and toothless. Don’t ever apologise for having what they need when the enemy shows up, whether that is in the workplace or in your self.
Both Christ and the devil are described as being lions. One is the king the other is the enemy.
Semper fidelis my distant brother. 🇺🇸 🇬🇧
You have a bright future as a motivational speaker.
Nailed it....100%. Thank you for your honesty and through your honesty being able to assist others.
Thanks Dude Totally agree with your opinion.
I left the Forces after 23 years in Logistics and went self employed training in IT. I used my service skills and discipline to learn all I could about everything I could as quickly as possible to make me a usable commodity for employers to take on. I worked and studied 18 hour days to pick as much knowledge as I could. The people I work with can't believe how quickly I learn new stuff. My ethos is I'll be the one you come to because I know it before you do.
Had never seen a civvy doctor since I was a kid, never had to wait to see a dentist and on it went. In my wardrobe I had white shirts and black suits, I looked like something out of MIB. Could not believe it was so hard to pick something to wear. It was just a different kind of uniform! Took me a long time to slow down and choose to wear something less formal to work!
Same as you - only guy with the camera on in meetings - only person talking whether it was good or bad (but always trying to be constructive). One thing that did amaze me was I'd be the only person helping others at work because I could, not because I had to. Others would be stepping over people to get on.
I spent a lot of time looking at people who had come out and what they went through and decided it would be different for me. Stopped drinking and carried on with phys and made that a life choice not to sit in a chair and veg. Kept to routine that gave my days structure instead of just wondering what to do next. What really scared me was the number of ex service people who are homeless and how they came to be that way, it all breaks down when you can't handle the chaos.
Resettlement does not prepare you for the afterlife really and you're right - there is deafening silence from the service you left. Not many people outside understand the military environment and the sense of belonging and purpose, many people leaving don't comprehend that is a big part of what they are losing when they leave.
Many ex service people have more ability than they realise, it is just bringing it out in them and giving people belief.
I did 22 years in the RAF as an engineer and had a easy transistion because I planned my exit and work strategy which made the transistion a lot easier which worked for me. I took a job in the military thinking about how it would transistion into civiy street when i left.
Once again Tim nails it, which makes sense being half Welsh !!
Psychosomatic power is greater than most of us realise. I’ve learnt the hard way too, Tim. Love the videos. Atb.
The doctor explained it brilliantly what was happening.
Joined at 16, worked on Rapier and was out by 1994, couldn't even get a job in a chicken factory when i left, today i earn well and with high level qual's behind me to masters level. The military will never leave any of us who served. It shapes our todays, and presents our tomorrow's, control the controllable's and appreciate everything around us. I value self growth and tend to swerve those who pull but never push.
'The military will never leave any of us who served'....agree 100% my mate.
Ex rapier here too mate 👍
Tim, I mentioned this to you before........................Your talents are wasted. What a great video with some extremely sound advice. I was one of the lucky ones.....40+ years in the mob and not looking forward to civvy street for all the reasons you have cited. Ended up leaving the RAF on a Friday and starting my new job three days later in a defence related educational environment....I viewed it as the first step in adjustment between a long military career and all of the vagaries of civvy street that you have so masterfully highlighted, like time-keeping...............arghhh !. Well done, mate. Keep up the good work with all that you do.
Just stumbled across your channel ...... bloody hell , I thought I was the only suave, adhd no doubt , intelligent , experienced , been shot at , loved , lived , done it all , and then again but backwards , 50 something year old dude who went though a major shift in all aspects of their lives and came out the other side smiling and much wiser. A similar what to do i.e not much you can do apart from hang on tight and wallow in it. Sometimes there are no simple answers apart from give it some time and one day it will all be fine and dandy and life is beautiful. It passes. Be present as much as possible and never flog yourself when things seem out of your control because that's when the really important deep deep healing is being done. Being re born expect some severe pain but my God it's worth it. God Bless Everyone !
Never seen this feed before, brilliantly put.
Thank you so true , like the book 📕 the body holds the score, body holds on to trauma, unfortunately manifest in illness.I know to my own detriment, best of luck on your recovery journey, onwards and upwards.🥰
Hi Tim,
V interesting commentary that resonated with me.
I de-mobbed in 2016 after a 27 year career as a PTI, specialising as an Adventurous Training Instructor. One of my last tours was at the Joint School for Adventurous Training Instructors, Llanrwst (admin unit was Valley) where we trained and assessed the next generation of ATIs. The work was often stressful, leading groups on multi pitch rock climbs, padding big water, and winter mountaineering in arctic conditions in a white out with a group in tow, all of which carried significant risk and required astute judgement. It’s fair to say most days you were completely ‘wired’.
I left the RAF on a Fri with a BA (Hons) and MA Ed under my belt and started work in the NHS on the Monday. I vividly remember taking off my uniform in the PEd Flt changing rooms for the last time. The PTI vest that was so much a part of my identity was taken off for the last time, never to be worn again. I sobbed. It was like experiencing a bereavement.
I too made the mistake of expecting others to operate in the same way as I did. Whilst there is passion in abundance, the other qualities that I found important as a Serviceman seemingly had little store. It was a tough gig, initially, and a v steep learning curve. I’m 8 years in now and have found my way, but to do so I’ve have to recalibrate my outlook on life, whilst still preserving my core identity and values. Not easy!
Great work, Tim. I look forward to your next videos.
‘Stick’
I was not in the military, however I like your honesty and words here…
I’ve watched a few of your videos prior over the last few weeks and months, and I said I like this guy is a straight talker.
30+ years ago my dream was to join the RAF and be a pilot or the commercial route. Got improper guidance at the time from school and got sidetracked with another career.
I truly believe one day I will attain my pilots license, You or your school will be my choice.
Thanks
hello Pal ,had my introduction to you through chris thrall interview ,i enjoyed listening to your views ,wish you every success with your output and i,ll be watching with interest ,all the best Tim
I appreciate your video. My husband retired in 2016 after almost 25 years. Yes, first few years were rough and if you were in combat unit there is definitely no such a thing as soft landing.
You speak very openly about your alcohol addiction..i've not come from a military background but, I am OK being honest. I was getting really ill with high blood pressure, racing heart and I spoke to my doctor who wanted to do more checks on me but I ended up flipping a switch and I said to her, I think I know what I need to do... I got off the phone with her and decided from that day forward I'm not drinking alcohol the way I use to. I went from over 30pints a week to 4. My blood pressure went from 218/120 down to 130/80 in the next year and I feel much better now. I still allow myself those 4 pints but thats all, per week.
Only just seen this video Tim…always late to the party 🙈 I consider myself to have had a pretty soft landing after almost 23 year as a Fairy in the RAF. I officially left 1sr Feb 08 after 22 years service (plus 8 months for the Queen as under 18 when I joined), I actually left in about sept 07 with leave, resettlement etc. I secured work offshore and had my first trip away in Jan 08. On my last official day in the RAF (day before my 40th birthday) I was in Bergen getting shedded as boat was in dock and one of the guys lived in Bergen. Over the years there have been lean times (Covid was off for about 18 months with no work) but as with anything in life you just gotta crack on and make the best of it. Been off work last 3 months with a broken ankle but hey ho it’s nice to have time at home for a change….keep up,the great vids Tim
And this is were the Ptsd comes from the transition!
Thanks for sharing your story Tim. I understand and sympathise with what you went through. After 30 years in the Police, I walked out in 1997, before DEI and never retuned.It was already too 'PC' for me. I was determined to escape the organised routine and protected environment; definitely not taking a civvy job in the same organisation as so many do. I got a proper job, driving coaches until retirement 30years later.